Naked Science Forum
Life Sciences => Physiology & Medicine => Topic started by: neilep on 17/04/2005 21:22:49
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*sigh* This is no doubt a philosophical question but do you think when you're asleep and not dreaming , it's the same as being dead ?It's an experiment I'm in NO great hurry to try but just wondered on peoples postulations on the matter.
You know how it is, you awake, and wham, you're back in the real world....but you could have been asleep for days weeks, years eh ?
I'm not a pious person so I don't think death is just another state of existense, I think it's the end of it !!.....I dunno, I know I've been down lately and recently I've been speculating...well.... that's all one can do about it I suppose eh ?
Oh boy, sorry for the depressing topic, I think I will delete it unless it's saved by the life of your responses.
Thanks
Neil
ps: Sorry again, but didn't know where to stick this post...probably not the correct website for it too.
Men are the same as women.... just inside out !!(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.world-of-smilies.com%2Fhtml%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2Fmini%2Fmini018.gif&hash=43d4f680fb1e52aecb14b539cb9eba2c)
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well that is an intresting quest,
there was women wit sleeping disorder(like she didn't) and she went to a psyc to get help. they did that thing were they put u in a trance and tell u to go back to ur childhood. she did that and they found when she was lil she asked her dad what death was like right befor he said good nite. he said its like going 2 sleep n ever waking then he turned out the light and said got to sleep!!!
lol wierd hu
id like to no if u die in a dream do u die in real life?
P.S. y r u so depressed? i have read a lot of what u rote and i sall a lot of energy and humer what happend?
Drew Rody
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Hmm...I've been thinking about this post..going to give it till the time I come home tonight before I delete it for being so morose and bitter and twisted and melancholically bleak....and I don't even think there is such a word as ' melancholically' either...how joyless is that ?
Men are the same as women.... just inside out !!(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.world-of-smilies.com%2Fhtml%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2Fmini%2Fmini018.gif&hash=43d4f680fb1e52aecb14b539cb9eba2c)
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quote:
Originally posted by ADD HAHAHA
well that is an intresting quest,
there was women wit sleeping disorder(like she didn't) and she went to a psyc to get help. they did that thing were they put u in a trance and tell u to go back to ur childhood. she did that and they found when she was lil she asked her dad what death was like right befor he said good nite. he said its like going 2 sleep n ever waking then he turned out the light and said got to sleep!!!
lol wierd hu
id like to no if u die in a dream do u die in real life?
P.S. y r u so depressed? i have read a lot of what u rote and i sall a lot of energy and humer what happend?
Drew Rody
Oh,you posted something while I was typing mine......I'll try and respond in full later, as I have to go to work soon, but thanks.
Men are the same as women.... just inside out !!(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.world-of-smilies.com%2Fhtml%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2Fmini%2Fmini018.gif&hash=43d4f680fb1e52aecb14b539cb9eba2c)
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well i am afraid of death and i am praying to GOD to erase all of my sins so that i can go to the heaven AMEN
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god has nothing to do wit hit!!!
P.S. u ok neilep???
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np, im glad ur doing better. every 1 has a bad day, week,month, how ever long.
P.S. if ur A.D.D don't take dexidrain if ur not us to it. had a bad experence. lol and try to get back to ur old self neilep!!! [:D] [:D] [:)]
Drew Rody
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Laying horizontal in bed slows down all bodily functions and lowers body temperature. I believe the native american indians can choose the day they die by laying down and reducing their respiration rate until the heart actually stops.
I think you are correct with your interpretation of sleep, however, REM sleep, is considered as the time you are most likely to reach dream state, so maybe the dream state is more like a trip to the morgue than the dreamless state. Very thought promoting post Neil, thanks
Death is natures way of telling us to slow down.
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I have read and heard of situations where you can lower ones body tepm to freezing stop the heart and brain so by all scientific reasoning they are dead. Drian all there blood to perform an operation then put the blood back raise the body temp and restart the body with no damage. My question can it be done?
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It has been done in the states yes. Following the war in the Falklands it was realised that the cold temperatures was saving lives, despite some pretty horrific injuries.
This has now been developed into cooling the brain and body down prior to surgery and warming them up after by returning the cool blood, via a machine that heats it up.
I also remember a guy who was apparently drowned in a freezing river after his car turned over. He was successfully resuscitated after a very long period, possibly an hour or more of being in the river. He suffered no brain damage as a result of warming his blood to revive him.
after
"The explanation requiring the fewest assumptions is most likely to be correct."
K.I.S. "Keep it simple!"
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Neil - 1 major difference between dreamless sleep & death is that even when you're asleep your brain is still functioning. On a subconscious (Jeez, I'm a psychologist & STILL have trouble spelling that!) level you are still perceiving what is going on around you. Sometimes it only takes a tiny sound to wake you. In death ALL brain function ceases & no perception is possible (which is pretty obvious, I suppose).
As for what occurs after you die, well, that's a matter of belief. I won't go into the Heaven, Nirvana, Paradise, Ragnarok, Nihilist, Reincarnation etc belief systems as it's a personal thing & nothing can be proven one way or another.
Of course God is a man - if God was a woman we'd have more clothes shops.
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I ended up on this site looking for information about ZetaCap, but decided to look around and found this thread. Very interesting topic!! I'll definitely stick around this site, there is a lot of good thought provoking information here.
Thanks! [:)]
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Hi
I suffer from night terrors, and occasionally from sleep paralysis. Below is a description of what happens (written in the third person):
They always followed the same pattern. Suddenly awake, eyes open, body paralysed, and the world dissolving before her eyes. She’s dying – that’s the only explanation, because she can feel her life blood draining out of her. She senses herself becoming absorbed into something else, something that strips away her personality, her very essence. Her eyes see the room changing shape and form, turning into a slurry of colours and shadows. And then she realises that she cannot remember her name, and panic overwhelms her. Frantically within her own mind, she tries to remember anything – the name of anything, any object. She can see the curtains but the word to describe them is gone from her mind. And then she realises she cannot feel her heart beating and all of a sudden the paralysis lifts and she is bolt upright in bed, clawing at her arms, feeling for a pulse. It seems like an eternity before the fear subsides and she realises that, of course she is alive. The room resumes its ordinariness. The name for things floods back into her mind. She waits for the adrenalin to dissipate, then lies back down. The fear stays with her – she is afraid to think on it, as if to remember the fear is to invite it back into her mind. She tries to remember details of the visions: the colours and shapes; the images of the world melting before her, but it is hard and the fear itself prevents her from thinking clearly. Slowly her heart beat returns to normal and suddenly she is aware of sounds around her, as if, for that long moment, a huge silence had engulfed her. It seems an eternity before sleep returns.
I sincerely believe that I know what dying feels like. These waking nightmares give me a strong sense of life ebbing away, dissolving into nothingness. Consequently, I try to live a very full and challenging life! I wish that I had enough courage and wit about me when in the middle of these episodes, to just "go with the flow" instead of being scared witless. Perhaps I might learn something!
Not sure if it adds anything to the debate, but thought it was worth sharing [;)]
Let none admire that riches grow in heaven. That soil best deserves the precious bane
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yes i belive while not dreaming its pretty close to being dead ,exept
you dont wake up when you die.dont wrry though death isnt as bad to experiance as it is to prepare for.so we spend life fearing something we never will really experiance.if you get me.
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After several years of intense meditation I now have got my sleep pattern down to four hours. I have practiced what is called by some "lucid dreaming" and find that I can now see, feel and speak to others in my sleep time.
I do not believe that we die and that is it, although at one time I did think that that statement was reality. In fact I thought that this life was it.
After studying such subjects as yogic philosopy, tibetan mysticism etc. I looked for some western science that would cover these subjects and found the area of transpersonal psychology, Charles Tart
and Ken Wilbur write on this subject to name but a few. From here on I decieded to put my money where my mouth was and try some of the methods which were supposed to put you into an altered state, or a different frequency, whatever you wish to call it.
I used the Sri Yantra as a meditational device. That was interesting to say the least.
Then I used the hemi-sync from the monroe institute www.monroeinstitue.com and that was just the ticket.
There can be no explanation to anyone who has not experienced the invisible or other more subtle frequencies. The only way forward is to experiment. I find that many people talk about this subject but do not actively engage in looking deeper.
Apart from the lucid dreaming and the leaving the body whilst fully awake experience. There are other side effects of this type of experimentation.
Being able to see the subtle energies that surround the body is quite an amazing sight and we are very lucky indeed to have an artist who not only is able to see the more subtle frequencies he is able to paint them in the most intricate detail.
For anyone who wants to have a look at what any of us can see (with a little bit of determination and practice) please see the website of american artist Alex Grey. Especially interesting is his exhibition which is called Chapel of Sacred Mirrors (a very unscientific title) nontheless here is depicted what we actually look like when viewed with our full visual faculties switched on.
So, I feel that most people sleep too much. Sleep time is never nothingness, we all seem to leave and go on a journey, some people can remember, some people can't remember a thing, some people remember something and then the analytical brain reduces what we have seen to something that we may be able to relate to, which often seems like a load of old rubbish and some people learn to dream lucidly for four hours after which I can only say that one feels incredibly relaxed and full of energy.
Is sleep a little death?
If you view death as the absolute end, then the answer would be a resounding no.
If you view death as a departure from one frequency another then yes, sleep it is just that.
It is said that it is not very ethical to point out the invisible (as in subtle frequencies) to those who cannot see , so anyone interested should really just go and have a look for themselves.
You can look at a candle flame or a spot on a wall to take yourself down the trick is to empty your mind and the best way to do this is to just quite simply listen to your breathing. You have to quieten your mind or cut the noise to sound ratio as Ingo Swann points out, to facillitate a frequency flip. It is all just a matter of intention and practice.
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In the mid 70"s I was quite a heavy pot smoker. After some years of such activity I began to experience apnea, usually waking. I would suddenly realize that I was about to faint and then realize that I wasn't breathing. To start breathing then required a conscious decision and action. Several times I experienced sleep apnea. Once in particular, I dreamed that I was dying. I can't remember now the specifics of the dream, but suddenly a voice screamed, so loud that it woke me up, "Breath." I woke up gasping for breath. The origin of the scream remains something of a mystery to me. Despite its volume the scream was unheard by others in the house. Did I then, recognizing/believing that I was dying, scream at myself? Or did the voice originate from another source?
If one assumes consciousness after death (a faith/religious decision/belief) then it seems to me that sleep and death share at least one thing in common. They both are characterized by helplessness (the inability of the consciousness to affect the physical world/universe}, lacking power over a vehicle. I believe that I am generally about as conscious during sleep as I am awake, though the things I am conscious of vary under either condition. Consciousness after death I have yet to prove and doubt that I shall report the result. Anyone heard from Houdini?
Gary Lankford
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dagdhda: I agree on most parts what you said. I have an inborn ability too see auras -- and I'm NOT crazy!!! Sometimes I just pause to observe the energy field of a plant, for example.
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Originally posted by ADD HAHAHA
well that is an intresting quest,
there was women wit sleeping disorder(like she didn't) and she went to a psyc to get help. they did that thing were they put u in a trance and tell u to go back to ur childhood. she did that and they found when she was lil she asked her dad what death was like right befor he said good nite. he said its like going 2 sleep n ever waking then he turned out the light and said got to sleep!!!
lol wierd hu
id like to no if u die in a dream do u die in real life?
P.S. y r u so depressed? i have read a lot of what u rote and i sall a lot of energy and humer what happend?
Drew Rody
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about if u die in ur dreams......u DON'T die in real life....i've been shot and killed a bunch of times in my dreams but i never died yet.....
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Thought I'd BTT this !