Naked Science Forum
Non Life Sciences => Geek Speak => Topic started by: Chemistry4me on 08/05/2009 00:59:38
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It's happened 2-3 times in the last month, when I turned my computer on, the fan at the back was going crazy, whirling around and making a big racket. I'm wondering it could be dirty/clogged up? Should I take it out and clean it? Or is it another problem? Because the next time I turned it on it was fine. [:-X]
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I'm guessing that it's the fan in the PSU that's causing the noise. If so, it's doing so because the fan bearing has worn and become loose so that it's rattling in it's bearing. If you're up to taking it out to clean it then you might as well just replace it. Have you got & can you use a soldering iron? (If it's a PSU fan it probably won't be plugged but soldered). If so, a replacement fan will be cheap - just a few UK Pound - you'll just need to check the voltage and diameter.
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Thanks.
Hmm.....on second thoughts it will not be very easy to take out at all. I thought it would be easier. I'll have to take the whole thing apart. [:-X]
You sure there is not other way?
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High CPU usage causes the fan to be activated (to cool the hot chip).
Software problems can cause high CPU usage and frequent/prolonged fan.
Such software problems would include conflict between legitimate programmes, or infection by virus/malware.
If you have a windows system you could have a look at the "Reliability and performance monitor",
it will tell you if your "crazy" fan is due to high CPU and what programmes are causing it.
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I just scanned it this morning and it was fine.
So you think I should use my computer less?
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I just scanned it this morning and it was fine.
A virus-scan would not necessarily show malware, and would not show conflict between programmes,
(e.g. if you had two anti-virus programmes each activating the other).
Unfortunately there are things which standard virus scans cannot detect called rootkits (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rootkit), used to install adware and malware.
High CPU usage (indicated by fan on frequently) can be symptom of a software problem, including infection.
Like I said, have a look at "reliability and performance monitor" to see what is causing your "crazy" fan.
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I have Windows Vista and I don't seem able to find the "reliability and performance monitor"
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Click on the windows logo bottom left of the screen and Put "Reliability and performance monitor" in the "start search" box.
[If you cannot find it then perhaps you shouldn't look at it].
Here is a snapshot of mine ...
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How can I tell what is causing it?
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Does low disk space have anything to do with it? A message has just popped up about that.
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If your hard disk is nearly full (or fragmented) then this will unnecessarily tax the CPU.
You could try "Disk defragmenter" (put in Windows search box).
If you activate rhe "Disk defragmenter" programme it will tell you when it was last run,
if it has been weeks since last run then run the programme to tidy up your hard disk.
[The defragmenter is usually scheduled to run automatically daily or weekly].
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I'm deleting some files to see if that'll work. [:)]
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You could try "Disk defragmenter" (put in search box).
Okay thanks for your help. [:)]
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You are not likely to be able to fix a worn out fan with software take your courage in both hands and get out your screwdrivers and soldering iron and change the thing!
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Hi FixItYourself troubleshooters!
Here is a Video4you:
ikoD
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take your courage in both hands and get out your screwdrivers and soldering iron and change the thing!
Oh shucks! I was hoping it wouldn't come to this! [:D]
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Would a mechanical fault be intermittent ?
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Ah, who to believe on this matter? [:)]
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I think, it's a starting problem.. you always clean it
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"Would a mechanical fault be intermittent ?"
The bearing of the fan spins on a steel shaft and when worn can move to some degree along that shaft.
At times it will settle on a worn part of the shaft and vibrate at other times it will settle on a less worn part of the shaft and run smoothly.
Another source of fan noise is the one on the CPU heat sink, this is controlled by the software to attempt to maintain the CPU at its correct operating temperature.
With age the heat sink compound between the CPU and its heat sink deteriorates and the fan is set to run faster to do its job the cure for this is to dismantle and replace this compound a rather delicate job for the inexperienced !.
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When I worked as service technician maintaining large HELL scanner/recorders I found that young service tech's (especially those with university degrees) thought they could fix every problem sitting at the computer terminal whereas 95% of the problems were mechanical.
I expect it is even worse now computers are so common!.
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If you dig out the fan, you can peel back the little bit of sticky paper that covers the bearing and drop in some light oil. The fan will be fine for a while after that.
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I got fed up with the sound of a whirlwind occurring every time I did something mildly taxing on my computer so I purchased a huge noctua heatsink and fan. It was almost silent and has performed beautifully for over a year now. I can recommend it.
Chris
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(Not that I am planning on doing this) If I left the fan as it is for say, another year, will my computer crash?
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so I purchased a huge noctua heatsink and fan. It was almost silent and has performed beautifully for over a year now. I can recommend it.
Thanks. So how much was it?
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(Not that I am planning on doing this) If I left the fan as it is for say, another year, will my computer crash?
If its the processor fan then the PC will shut down without any warning in order to protect the processor. This could happen when you are in the middle of a document and you will loose all unsaved work. (this is assuming that the fan actually jams)
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You could record what your "crazy" fan sounds like and link to a recording of it on a file sharing site or Freesound (http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=70152)*.
[* Freesound has a 24 delay from submission to the post appearing due to moderation]
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We appear to be discussing two different things here the noise from the PSU fan and the noise from the CPU fan, the noise from the CPU fan will change slowly reacting to the temperature change due to the workload but the noise from the PSU which is not software controlled will change on its own whim, make sure you know which is which before spending time and money.
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You could record what your "crazy" fan sounds like
Strange thing is, it hasn't happened once in 7 days.
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We appear to be discussing two different things here the noise from the PSU fan and the noise from the CPU fan, the noise from the CPU fan will change slowly reacting to the temperature change due to the workload but the noise from the PSU which is not software controlled will change on its own whim, make sure you know which is which before spending time and money
Here is where the fan is:
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A complete PSU does not cost a fortune and reqires little skill to change, 370 Watts should be more than adequate unless you have some fancy video board for playing games.
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=35345
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Hmmm...that's about $64 dollars here.
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Jeez - I answered this question as the first response in this thread - I can't believe that people are still discussing it - well, I can because they are, but what is the point?
I'm reminded of Douglas Adam's observation, via the character of Ford Prefect, that humans talk incessantly to stop themselves from thinking.
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No offense but it's always better to get a few more opinions and thoughts right?
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I think so.. so just unplug, remove the back clean the fan out with a soft bristled small paintbrush and acum up, put a few drops of oil at the point of turning, wipe off excess oil drips, and hand turn the fan a couple times wipe off any dirt that drizzles out .... put it all back together plug back in and try it for a few weeks see if it helps..I clean my fan like that every couple months!
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There is of course no back to remove from a PSU , you must open up the computer, remove the PSU, dismantle it, then unscrew the fan from the case of the PSU then you can see about cleaning and oiling it not a job for anyone who does not have technical skills.
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Correct, I mentioned that in one of my earlier posts.
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There is of course no back to remove from a PSU , you must open up the computer, remove the PSU, dismantle it, then unscrew the fan from the case of the PSU then you can see about cleaning and oiling it not a job for anyone who does not have technical skills.
I AM TALKING ABOUT TE CASE ON THE CPU...NOT THE PSU! MINE IS ACCESSIBLE AFTER REMOVING THE SIDE AND REMOVING IT FROM THE BACK AND UNPLUGGING THE WIRING HARNESS THAT IS PLUGGED IN. It is very simple unless you do not even know the basics..but I like taking things apart! sorry about caps..it was an accident on my phone keys...
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Lots of sense in there. From years of having to resurrect fans in irreplaceable kit may I add my 2 Pennyworth? (insomnia rules, my noisy neighbours crashed home about 1/2 hour ago so I`m done for tonight)
It is normally only sleeve bearing fans that make the screaming noises. Ball race fans tend to stall with nothing more than whirring noises as a warning.
The wear in a sleeve bearing fan eventually manifests itself by "Hula hooping" in part or in full on startup, a cotton bud momentarily poked in the `ole wil partly stall it and make it rotate normally and stop the ruddy noise.
Smaller fans such as 2 cm ones fitted on some magoptic drives have the worst noise, and can make shrillness after only 2 years continuous.
I will expand on what has been said.
If you want to re lubricate the fan it is possible to double its life, If you can get to it. the quality of the oil is very important, i`m sorry but 3 in one is not a good idea.
Decent oils are all clear not yellow. Like typewriter oil or remington shaver oil If you have these they will do.
If you are going to buy then I swear by starret tool oil. ( as used on my precision measuring tools) The yellow oils are not tremendously pure and some of the compounds attack plastics. If it is too viscous the fan will slow too.
Before you start have a soft brush, a vacuum cleaner, methylated spirits, cotton buds on hand. Tweezers And a shiny sticky label sheet to park the bearing foil. Number one is get the dust off BEFORE you lift the bearing foil.
Once clean foil off and away from oil. I tend to use a cocktail stick to apply tiny amounts and rotate, until you can just see a liquid film.
Many current sleeve bearing fans use a black split poly washer on the shaft to retain it. You will need tweezers to take it off in many cases If you can`t see the bearing gap. The fan rotor will try to drop off! if it is a circlip then tweezers or pliers or a jewellers screwdriver and a white sheet as it will go ker-ping!
So you have sight of it, a tiny fraction of oil, turn, check again until you just see a meniscus moving as you wobble the fan shaft. pop the washer back with the tweezers, and wipe with a cotton bud. Then with a meths wet one wipe the mounting for the foil clean, and stick it back on when dry. That keeps it stuck so no dust.
I know a complete heathen who uses an ink refill syringe to inject through the ally foil cap, but gets about a year only.
If the play is excessive then I have tried mixing locksmiths graphite with the oil, but it may take 3 tries and flush out with meths between to get the right "feel" this works better on all ball bearing fans where the cage has worn causing the noise.
It is a so and so to apply but flush the oil and Dry powder (teflon) lubricant the non domestic sort from RS or Farnell does the biz on ones that oiling hasn`t cured.
Bits of kit like a logo generator fitted and forgot as there is a spare cause a crisis when the spare hasn`t been powered for 10 years and the caps have lost their forming and you have to repair the screaming fans for the only working one.
First had to get involved in this area 20 odd years ago on a PDP 11 peripheral.
Hope that has helped a bit.
A new 400W PSU comes in at around £20-25 at a computer fair for a brand, Don`t even think of Maplins they stopped being remotely competitive about 15 years ago and low stock levels.
( I used to visit them as kid in their ONLY shop in westcliffe (southend) for project bits)
Have a look at CPC(.co.uk), apart from the small order charge they are often nearly as good as the fairs.
Gnight and happy ventilation
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Wow, thanks! If I could give you karma points I would give you 10. [:)]
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a cotton bud momentarily poked in the `ole wil partly stall it and make it rotate normally and stop the ruddy noise.
I missed this part before. Wow, I had no idea! [:o]
I just tried it this morning and it worked, and I thought I was onto something, but obviously it is old practise. [:)]
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nice idea I think I should try this once
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Be gentle it just needs a touch (no fingers!) [:D]
That`s a get through a day fix only, it`s still worn and needs some lubrication or replacing.
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Alright, I have screwed my courage to the sticking place and done it! SO hopefully it'll be fine now.
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We appear to be discussing two different things here the noise from the PSU fan and the noise from the CPU fan, the noise from the CPU fan will change slowly reacting to the temperature change due to the workload but the noise from the PSU which is not software controlled will change on its own whim, make sure you know which is which before spending time and money
Here is where the fan is:
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Is this yours CPU dude ..........
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That is correct.
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Ah! I guessed it right ....... Well keep it safe.....
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Ah! I guessed it right
Well it was hardly a light bulb moment.
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lol