Naked Science Forum
Life Sciences => Plant Sciences, Zoology & Evolution => Topic started by: nicephotog on 01/12/2008 11:37:44
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Is the Fox "Vulpes Vulpes" in any pure-bred abundance safely in Britain and kept aside in reserves as pure, or is it classified as a vermin throughout the nation the same as the Canis Lupus Dingo or Indias Commonwealth has the Canis Lupus Pallipes?
Dingos are following Britains apathetic demise of the Grey Wolf but so is also Canis Lupus Pallipes
http://exitstageright.wordpress.com/2007/10/16/dingo-on-brink-of-extinction-say-conservationists
Other Information
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/12/1210_041210_australia_dingoes.html
http://www.csiro.au/files/mediaRelease/mr2004/ECOS118.htm
Red foxes as any wild animal are dangerous to keep by taming but little is done to domesticate them for preservative or conservation reasons because they do not psychologically align to a favourable domestic pet and little is known as to how to "keep them"(Handle) as any of the Canis previously mentioned also have as the trouble.
If it is insisted that these animals(beformentioned Canis) are not sustained by a natural environments availability to continue(as it is suspected cannot be) then why is there no sensibility of preservative allocation by breeding , keeping training for all and a promoted quota of personal keepers produced p/annum to prevent their extinction?
Zoo parks only go so far and are neither safe nor economically safe(We know how much governments care to allocate money for these creatures).
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Hi nicephotog
I don't think that the fox in the UK is under any sort of threat (if that was your concern). Here is a link to some info.
http://www.wildlifeonline.me.uk/red_fox.html
There are many thousands of foxes around the UK, and with various "sport" activities such as pheasant shooting and with the abundance of rabbits, there are plenty of resources for the foxes. In actuallity, there (may be) a greater population of foxes in urban and peri-urban areas, where they feed on food waste etc. I doubt very much if there is a need to either "tame" some or to create a reserve in which to maintain a population.
Also "Contrary to popular misconception, foxes aren’t (and never have been) classed as vermin and, as such, Councils are not obliged to exercise any form of control over them." (from the same site). In my experience, there are 2 main groups who actively control these populations: Firstly gamekeepers who tend pheasant / partridge / grouse etc, and secondly, people in red costumes who ride on horses once a year claiming to be doing it to uphold various traditions and livelihoods.
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As dentstudent has pointed out, the urban Fox population is greater than their country cousin's.
They are becoming less timid as they get more used to being around high populations of humans. Some do see them as vermin, when they are no more than opportunists making the most out of our litter ridden streets. I think they are actually doing a good job, eating the discarded chips burgers and other takeaway leftovers. I'd rather have foxes around eating the mess than rats!
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Thanks for the article dentstudent, i've only skimmed it but it appears quite comprehensive, i'll read it fully some-time.
Strange the fox has made it that far that well,human generated waste is unfortunately dangerous for wild animals not merely from chemicals but also physical objects that get mixed in from other sources of rubbish generation unless the foostuffs are kept separate.
Would you say that had come from a "policy / clause" somewhere that has allowed foxes such good survival rate.
It remains a wonder, because of the numbers modern firearm technology can remove(i mean in a sensible context) at any one shift of contracted out vermin destruction.
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Would you say that had come from a "policy / clause" somewhere that has allowed foxes such good survival rate.
It remains a wonder, because of the numbers modern firearm technology can remove(i mean in a sensible context) at any one shift of contracted out vermin destruction.
nicephotog - you're welcome. I don't understand your final 2 sentences above - could you elaborate further? Thanks.
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Animals dubbed "chicken thief" and other disasters against or upon primary industry generally manage to have thier population levels controled down to a point on the graph where they are considered endangered or even accidently made extinct.
What keeps these animals population at such a level(and i suppose i am only presuming here about it always having been unendangered because i do not come from the UK) is mysterious to me.
Is it some policy of government relating i.e. no firearms?, human food waste handling?, easy obtainence of some part of nature oversupplying prey(eat natural ony the best free range chooks)?
Could the way governments local, state or federal have some clause in a law somewhere that intersects their(foxs') domain in some way that promotes its survival at a good level.
Or is it just how many people are willing to keep illegal pets.
I'm assuming at some point there are drives to cull or remove by destruction some populations for economic and safety reasons.
One part of the Highway over the Blue Mountains outside of Sydney had a policy of baiting the dingos as much as possible on a regular basis because of the front end damage to trucks and cars, The whole idea of it is to decimate them to the level they are rare in the area(meaning 100km radius).
As always the general reason is economic and with large areas of Britain made up of hobby size areas any nibble here or there would be a giant bite.
These below are more interest articles since this post set could be of interest to other related subjects of it:
http://www.nicephotog-jsp.net/dingo-pets-legislation.zip
http://www.behav.org/Kabai/handout/kp-vet-dog-99.html
http://www.gibsons.ca/coyoteawaregibsons.html
Genuine brown coloured Coyote, most are greyish.
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=DIzIXuCpfzM
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I think that in general, the UK population fall into 2 categories: the first one doesn't really care too much about wildlife and has no discernable impact on populations. The second are those who are interested in wildlife, and it seems to me that the vast majority of this group falls into a main sub-group who are happy to have foxes around. As I said before, there are those who control foxes, but this tends to be at a local scale (farm level) and since the size of farms in the UK is somewhat different to those in Australia, the impact is somewhat less. Since foxes are generally nocturnal, I would suggest that a vast majority of the human population have absolutely no interaction with foxes, and do not think about them very often. The only time that the question of foxes comes into the general arena is the "traditional" boxing day hunt which has been somewhat divisive over the last 10 years or so.
I understand that the fox population in the UK is somewhere in the region of 250,000 and appears to be very stable, and I don't think that there is any lobby anywhere that really wants to see a dramatic culling on a national basis - there is no need for it, and it would be something akin to political suicide if it were suggested.
I also think that there may a big difference in the public perception between the UK and foxes, and Australia and Dingos. The UK tends to be more "bambified" and protective (overly in some cases, such as the grey squirrel) over its wildlife.
Also, just a bug-bear of mine - "decimated" literally means to lose 10% of something (hence "deci"). Eradication or some other synonym may be better.
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"decimated" in "The Free Dictionary by Farlex" on the Net has some interesting examples, but it does feel it can be acceptably degenerated to akin to "a great loss" rather than requiring to be 1/10 lost.
As a child in a rougher part of Sydney it was always required to be in a group, so "deci" meant to have 9/10 loss and 1/10 remainder, because to be standing upright after a fight was pretty good and probably will only stop around the point where there are 9/10 loss on one side "deci" meant leaved with one tenth.
In Australia, it s Dingos that keep the fox numbers, ferral cats and kangaroo numbers down.
The Grey Wolf was made Extinct from Britain, I wonder what that would be to suggest its re-introduction.
Or is The Grey Wolf a visitor archeologically like the Dingo that arrived somewhere around 5000 years back from present.
Grey Wolves would be a little more Difficult to handle as wildlife in the UK.
As for all these canids , the main worry primary producers have is Hydatits Tapeworm.
And maybe for the work dogs kelpies red Healers , border collies e.t.c. more the Heartworms.
I've often wanted to figure a way of mass drenching what isn't poisenned by bait air drops.
---oops next bit was misposted - belongs in another.
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Cheerio to this thread, and thanks for the link(excellent).
Foxes always bother me on that point, i've never heard of them not being legally classified as a vermin.
Thanx.