Naked Science Forum

Non Life Sciences => Geology, Palaeontology & Archaeology => Topic started by: Kiffer on 18/11/2008 22:28:39

Title: Rare Fossils of Mine... Have any of you seen these before? Found In my back yard
Post by: Kiffer on 18/11/2008 22:28:39

Ok, I put these fossils pix into video format onto youtube... And could anyone tell me what kind of fossils they are? Or what they used to be? I assume they are some kind of sea plant life as I have found fossilized sea shells... But All of these were found on a mountain in Alabama, a long way from where the ocean is today... Kinda strange to think about what the places we see today were like millions of years ago...


I find these all the time on a mountain in Alabama... And every time it rains I find more and more... But I can never find any others that look like them online... So are they rare?

Keep in mind these are but a few... I have like 50 or so of these...


Heres the video of the fossils...


<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="

name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="

type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

I put the link up in case the video wont play on this site... but if I need to, I'll put the pix up later...



(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.tinypic.com%2Fo5aru1.jpg&hash=ad980e615fe967327701f2ec2b598f08)


(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi33.tinypic.com%2Frbieqs.jpg&hash=24b3d71a45d999df319612b9f488a4f3)


(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi36.tinypic.com%2F2mxoo41.jpg&hash=8ef561261771a685b4d558060ecbc495)

These look like bee hives or something...
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi37.tinypic.com%2Fhs6yds.jpg&hash=7ed11101a51e73b15779942a12f0b0be)


(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.tinypic.com%2F9u7z87.jpg&hash=16dc1fc47aed06cf646eea4a8154ed97)


(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi34.tinypic.com%2Ffxf192.jpg&hash=5e65c93a598bd7caeb460430a605ec06)


(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi36.tinypic.com%2F157de38.jpg&hash=0c4483f284cd8ef519848c0faffacf4a)

The one in the top left hand corner is a sea shell...
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi33.tinypic.com%2F1z4wxs3.jpg&hash=f3d63f90fb521d626be913272b799a1d)

Front of Fossil A
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi33.tinypic.com%2Fvp9u01.jpg&hash=69adafbd5df0c0d618a61a525c3b0c48)

Front of Fossil B
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi33.tinypic.com%2Fngzukp.jpg&hash=5c98edfa8565bbfad663e15c89e5c348)

Back of Fossil A
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi34.tinypic.com%2F2pyx2l0.jpg&hash=f527ede58fc0f576aca9e86685114f58)

Back of Fossil B
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.tinypic.com%2F2506uqo.jpg&hash=c9687a25b46a9340e4b254c0ebbefe6c)

Title: Re: Rare Fossils of Mine... Have any of you seen these before? Found In my back yard
Post by: RD on 18/11/2008 23:18:19

I think the "bee hive" things are fossils of tabulate coral...

Quote

The tabulate corals, forming the order Tabulata, are an extinct form of coral. They are almost always colonial, forming colonies of individual hexagonal cells known as corallites defined by a skeleton of calcite, similar in appearance to a honeycomb.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabulata



 [ Invalid Attachment ]

                                                                                                            http://www.lakeneosho.org/Miss41.html

Title: Re: Rare Fossils of Mine... Have any of you seen these before? Found In my back yard
Post by: Kiffer on 18/11/2008 23:21:49

Quote from: RD on 18/11/2008 23:18:19

I think the "bee hive" things are fossils of tabulate coral...

Quote

The tabulate corals, forming the order Tabulata, are an extinct form of coral. They are almost always colonial, forming colonies of individual hexagonal cells known as corallites defined by a skeleton of calcite, similar in appearance to a honeycomb.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabulata

Wow...

Title: Rare Fossils of Mine... Have any of you seen these before? Found In my back yard
Post by: RD on 19/11/2008 00:21:03

I'm not 100% sure on this one, (no scale on your photos)...                                 
                                           
 [ Invalid Attachment ]            
                                                                                                                    Tentaculites richmondensis  (http://www.uky.edu/OtherOrgs/KPS/images/tentaculites.jpg)

Quote

Tentaculites are fossils from the Devonian period (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devonian), ranging from 360-410 million years ago. They have no official taxonomic classification, but some group them with pteropods. Tentaculites have ribbed, cone-shaped shells which range in size from 5 to 20 mm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tentaculite

Title: Rare Fossils of Mine... Have any of you seen these before? Found In my back yard
Post by: frethack on 20/11/2008 01:51:40

I agree with RD...definitely tabulates.  Also helps to date the fossils as a whole as tabulate corals went extinct during the Permian (more than 250 ma)
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi37.tinypic.com%2Fhs6yds.jpg&hash=7ed11101a51e73b15779942a12f0b0be)

Crinoid stems.  Lower middle is from a top-cross sectional view (inside the stem)
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.tinypic.com%2F9u7z87.jpg&hash=16dc1fc47aed06cf646eea4a8154ed97)

Upper left is a brachiopod, upper right appears to be some sort of gastropod, others are crinoid stems
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi33.tinypic.com%2F1z4wxs3.jpg&hash=f3d63f90fb521d626be913272b799a1d)

Crinoid stem and a mold of a crinoid stem
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi34.tinypic.com%2Ffxf192.jpg&hash=5e65c93a598bd7caeb460430a605ec06)(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi36.tinypic.com%2F157de38.jpg&hash=0c4483f284cd8ef519848c0faffacf4a)

Here are some modern crinoids (Echinoderms.  Related to starfish, sea urchins, sand dollars) Ill have to post some of my echinoderm collection...I love these things!  The part you appear to have are the long stalks.
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nova.edu%2Focean%2Fmessing%2Fcrinoids%2F8%2520Feeding%2520mechanism_files%2Fimage004.jpg&hash=e7e7cbaeaba7494bf76c3529860aabf1)

The others look like packstones with crinoids, brachiopods, and gastropods as the main allochems.  Though these arent necessarily rare (as far as fossils go), I would find endless delight in perusing the outcrops that these came from.  I hope that I am lucky enough to be able to settle down in an area with limestones that produce this many fossils!

Title: Rare Fossils of Mine... Have any of you seen these before? Found In my back yard
Post by: RD on 20/11/2008 03:49:37

Kiffer, Frethack is much better informed than I on this subject.


This crinoid head (15x20mm) is on sale in the UK for £52 (~$75)

 [ Invalid Attachment ]

http://www.fossilsdirect.co.uk/details.cfm?prodref=CRIN102

So Kiffer's mountain could be a nice little earner, provided he has permission from the landowner to collect the fossils.

Title: Rare Fossils of Mine... Have any of you seen these before? Found In my back yard
Post by: frethack on 20/11/2008 04:46:15

You could very well be correct RD.  If there were a photo of the fossil in cross section it would be easier to tell (5 part symmetry).

Here are a couple of cool stems that show the symmetry very well.
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.warwickshire.gov.uk%2FWeb%2Fgraphics%2Fgraphics.nsf%2Fgraphics%2FCrinoidStackMedium%2F%24file%2FCrinoidStackMedium.jpg&hash=11f15616c4fb963137dd6f4d598fc976)

Title: Rare Fossils of Mine... Have any of you seen these before? Found In my back yard
Post by: RD on 20/11/2008 05:04:28

Here is a box of four examples very like Kiffer's crinoids, $80 (retail) for the 4 pieces...

 [ Invalid Attachment ]


http://www.greatsouth.net/bytheflat/BTF-104_Crinoid_stems.htm

Title: Rare Fossils of Mine... Have any of you seen these before? Found In my back yard
Post by: Kiffer on 20/11/2008 09:59:36

Quote from: RD on 20/11/2008 03:49:37

So Kiffer's mountain could be a nice little earner, provided he has permission from the landowner to collect the fossils.

Yeah I have permission... Seeing as how I live on the mountain, and find these in my back yard...

Title: Rare Fossils of Mine... Have any of you seen these before? Found In my back yard
Post by: frethack on 20/11/2008 20:40:16

If your intent is to sell them, I would maybe donate a couple of choice pieces to your local University in exchange for exact species identification (if possible anyway).

Title: Rare Fossils of Mine... Have any of you seen these before? Found In my back yard
Post by: JDMcGee on 22/11/2008 05:18:18

I am fairly certain your "honeycombs" are colonial rugose corals. Your fossils aren't terribly rare, but I am sure you could find someone to sell them to. They are rather nice, and if you ever find an intact crinoid calyx similar to the one going up for 75$ in the UK, feel free to give it to me. I live up in Tennessee, and I would GLADLY come to your mountain and ...ah, relieve you of your burden :D
If you wanna see some neat fossils, head up to Parsons quarry in Tennessee, it is where I usually go to get my fix of Devonian fossils. Be prepared for disappointment though, as I last time I was there I didn't find a single full trilobite and had to settle for a pyjidium. :(

Title: Rare Fossils of Mine... Have any of you seen these before? Found In my back yard
Post by: frethack on 22/11/2008 17:34:05

As far as rugose vs. tabulates go, there are hexagonal colonial rugose corals which have very prominet radial septae within each corallite.
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftbn0.google.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3Aq-N8Whz2tpN83M%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fpalaeo.gly.bris.ac.uk%2Fpalaeofiles%2Ffossilgroups%2Fanthozoa%2Facervularia.jpg&hash=a03d4e509f9390a281ab4c3bd8c50168)(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftbn0.google.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3ApLUtGVPb8H8rCM%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.newarkcampus.org%2Fprofessional%2Fosu%2Ffaculty%2Fjstjohn%2FCool%252520Fossils%2FHexagonaria%2525203.jpg&hash=6d1baed07890d631f092219cb54e3463)


Tabulates also create hexagonal cells with transverse platforms instead of septae, and are, to my knowledge, strictly colonial.
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcgc.rncan.gc.ca%2Fpaleochron%2Fimages%2Ffavo2.jpg&hash=9e9befaa9666fdfd9e683b16b69610a7)(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.yale.edu%2Fypmip%2Ftaxon%2Fanthozoa%2Ftabulata%2F7066sm.gif&hash=57f5fc0e9f8986fe41a75728641bd3c7)

Your sample very well may be rugose, but from its current resolution, radial septae are not apparent.  Maybe post some closups?