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We are not neutral, we are at an equilibrium to gravity. We were born here.
the normal force is mass and the newtons, Fn=newtons.Newtons is a loss, in free fall an object weighs nothing.
chiralSPO - Haven't you learned that TB can't be reasoned with yet?
Quote from: Thebox on 29/03/2015 14:26:29We are not neutral, we are at an equilibrium to gravity. We were born here.I agree that we are attracted to the Earth with a force that is non-zero. But we are electrically neutral. I don't see what being born here has to do with it. If we had traveled here from Mars, we would still have mass, and still be attracted to the Earth's surface.Quote from: Thebox on 29/03/2015 14:26:29the normal force is mass and the newtons, Fn=newtons.Newtons is a loss, in free fall an object weighs nothing.This is nonsense. The normal force is what keeps us from falling through the ground. Fn has units of newtons, but is not equal to newtons. An object in free fall weighs nothing but it still has mass.
Consider the Caesium atom and the effect of a ''time-dilation'' , this shows you the influence of loss to gravity of atoms, we are always at this loss, we base it has neutral not realising we are already at loss.+1 moves a leaf, +2 moves a twigg, +100 blows over buildings, + 1 and air rises, -1 and water freezes.I do understand it, a+b=ab a field that both repels and attracts at the same time. I will use proper algebra if it helps.a=electronb=proton
need to account for neutrons.
Quote from: Thebox on 29/03/2015 14:41:07Consider the Caesium atom and the effect of a ''time-dilation'' , this shows you the influence of loss to gravity of atoms, we are always at this loss, we base it has neutral not realising we are already at loss.+1 moves a leaf, +2 moves a twigg, +100 blows over buildings, + 1 and air rises, -1 and water freezes.I do understand it, a+b=ab a field that both repels and attracts at the same time. I will use proper algebra if it helps.a=electronb=protonNone of this makes any sense "proper algebra" or not...Quote from: Thebox on 29/03/2015 14:41:07need to account for neutrons.At least you recognize that neutrons don't fit into your theory.
Yes I can. Science literally says that black and white, is not black and white.
What am saying is sound logic, I may not have all the correct terms but the A+B=C explains it, an electron field and a proton filed , two fields with opposite effects that can polarize to create gravity an attractive force.
Quote from: TheboxYes I can. Science literally says that black and white, is not black and white.Let me guess. You actually believe merely because you can type the three words Yes I can. it means that it's true, is that right? Let me make this clear - It not only doesn't but we all know better in your case. That never happens here unless its absolutely true.Quote from: TheboxWhat am saying is sound logic, I may not have all the correct terms but the A+B=C explains it, an electron field and a proton filed , two fields with opposite effects that can polarize to create gravity an attractive force.And well all know that to be 100% wrong. If it were right then your hair would stand on end due to you being in an electric field. In any case that would generate an electric field, not a gravitational one. If you knew physics you'd know how different they are and one cannot be confused with the other upon any observation.
try a cold breeze, and the positive of the hair attractive to the negative of the cold.
Look at ourselves, we contain electricity, but we contain also more negative than positive, hence attracted to the core [of the Earth] and the much more positive of the ground.
Quote from: Theboxtry a cold breeze, and the positive of the hair attractive to the negative of the cold.It is true that static electricity (eg from a Van de Graaff generator) can make the hairs on your arm or your head stand up. But most of the time, humans are electrically neutral; the hairs on your arm lie flat, long hair hangs down due to gravity. (ie gravity is not due to electric charge.)I think you are talking about goose bumps, which are an effect of tiny muscles in your skin, not static electricity. You can distinguish these by the tiny cones of muscle attached to each hair, working to make the hair stand up in cold weather.QuoteLook at ourselves, we contain electricity, but we contain also more negative than positive, hence attracted to the core [of the Earth] and the much more positive of the ground.Electrical charges can attract or repel, depending on whether the charges are the same or different.However, as far as we have been able to determine, gravity always attracts:We know this to be true for the people, rocks and oceans on Earth (all attracted towards the center of the Earth, and affected by tides from the Moon and the Sun).We believe this to be true of the inner core, the outer core and the mantle of the Earth, as we can see from earthquake waves traveling through denser material towards the center. We know this to be true for the planets of our Solar System (and the moons which circle them)We know that this is true for the stars in galaxies (but not exactly, which is why we need to include Dark Matter).We know that this is true for clusters of galaxies (but not exactly, which is why we need to include Dark Matter). Large volumes of rock like the Earth are electrically conductive, and so any voltages between the different layers of the Earth would have dissipated long ago (and continue to dissipate rapidly today, such as every time there is a lightning strike). So electrical attraction cannot be responsible for gravity on Earth.Large volumes of plasma like the Sun are very conductive, and so any static voltages between the different layers of the Sun would have dissipated long ago (there is some ongoing interaction between convection, magnetic and electric fields within the Sun, producing the ongoing sunspot cycle). So electrical attraction cannot be responsible for gravity of the Sun.
You say gravity always attracts, hydrogen and helium is not attracted, air is dependent on energy for buoyancy.
a proton is positive polarity and an electron is a negative polarity, surely the both together make a plus and negative polarity field?
Quote from: Theboxa proton is positive polarity and an electron is a negative polarity, surely the both together make a plus and negative polarity field?It has been demonstrated that (to a very great precision), the charge on the electron is equal to the charge on a proton (just with an opposite sign).When they are joined together in a hydrogen atom, the electron encloses the proton, and their positive and negative charges cancel. The electric field pretty much cancels out beyond twice the radius of the atom. There are some cases where a macroscopic electric field can be detected beyond the size of an individual atom:A wire moving through a magnetic field will produce a potential difference between the ends (this is how we generate most of our electricity). But the wire remains electrically neutral, overall.The energy of light causes solar cells generate an electric field across the junction of P and N semiconductors. But the solar cell remains electrically neutral, overall.Heat energy causes thermocouples generate an electric field across the junction of dissimilar metals (this is what is powering the Mars Curiosity rover). But the thermocouple remains electrically neutral, overall.The differing attraction of different metals for electrons is used to generate voltages in a chemical battery. But the battery remains electrically neutral, overall.Atoms (or molecules) bump into each other, disturbing this neutral electric field and producing the attraction of Van der Waals forces between the atoms. But the collection of atoms remains electrically neutral, overall.Some molecules (like water) attract electrons to one end more than another. This produces a molecule-sized dipole field, which shows itself in the relatively high melting point of water (despite it's low molecular weight). But the molecule is still electrically neutral.The Sun is a hot soup of protons and electrons. Rapidly-changing magnetic fields on the Sun can spray electrons and protons into space. But the Sun is electrically neutral, overall.
If an electron and proton have an electrostatic coupling, and a proton is positive polarity and an electron is a negative polarity, surely the both together make a plus and negative polarity field?
Quote from: TheboxIf an electron and proton have an electrostatic coupling, and a proton is positive polarity and an electron is a negative polarity, surely the both together make a plus and negative polarity field?Absolutely not. You're thinking in terms of classical mechanics where a point charge has a specific position at each momentum of time. If that were true on the subatomic scale then the atom couldn't exist. It would collapse in a blink of the eye. It was for this and other reasons that quantum mechanics was created. It's know known that the best way to think of the electron moving about the proton is as a electron "cloud." While this can't be taken as literally true it forms a good image in the mind to explain why there is no dipole field around an isolated hydrogen atom. In the ground state the electron cloud has a spherically symmetric distribution.
I understand about the electron shell, and to visualise this, not much dissimilar to visualising the Earth's magnetic sphere which is also electrons?
I am thinking about it myself and not thinking about how we are taught to think about it.A proton will repel another proton by polarity ? to show this I will use less than and more than tags to represent direction and I will label protons has (P). (p)<>(p)A proton attracts an electron by being an opposite polarity, we shall label electron (e) and show direction.(e)><(p)
So (e)+(p)=(ep)?is that correct ?Two atoms = (ep²)?
How do you know that the proton does not emit the electron shell?
and the electron shell is a voltage field?
that would also explain has someone else suggested why the electron does not collapse into the proton.Faraday's work and the invisible field around an electrical wire.
Maybe your dark matter is what holds the atoms together?Atoms are a black body?
Could an atom be just a individual proton particle.
that is a neutral, except by Electromagnetic radiation intake, it emits an isotropic electrical field, and repels all other protons, except there is this dark matter ''glue'' that is a negative that holds the atoms together?
Quote from: boxSo (e)+(p)=(ep)?is that correct ?Two atoms = (ep²)? What on earth or anywhere) does this mean or represent? Quote from: boxelectron + proton = electron proton, 2*electron proton = twice the radius of electron proton fieldQuote from: boxCould an atom be just a individual proton particle.no, by defintionQuote from: boxby who's definition ? you can not directly observe an atom, so it can not be factQuote from: boxI understand about the electron shell, and to visualise this, not much dissimilar to visualising the Earth's magnetic sphere which is also electrons?Not at all. The magnetosphere is a magnetic field that happens to trap all sorts of charged particles, but it would exist (as with any other magnetic field) in the absence of those particles too. Quote from: boxmagnetic fields are electrons though?
electron + proton = electron proton, 2*electron proton = twice the radius of electron proton field
by who's definition ? you can not directly observe an atom, so it can not be fact
magnetic fields are electrons though?
by everyone's definition. An atom is an electrically neutral assembly of equal numbers of protons and electrons plus a few neutrons.