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quote:Originally posted by PrecursorMore than likely but that can be corrected by supplying a shield made of a ferrous metal above the magnet. Lines of flux (like electricity) follow the path of least resistance. The shield would offer that path for the flux above the magnet (the flux that would influence the ferrous fluid higher up the tube) since the plate would have less resistance than air.I thought of maybe making the tube longer but all that would do is introduce a geater wight of fluid meaning a stronger magnet.
quote:Originally posted by another_someoneif the magnet is capable of grabbing and holding the fluid sufficient that it will not leak out of the hole in the bottom, then it must also be able to grab and hold it so as to prevent it from travelling up the column.
quote:Originally posted by PrecursorNow you ask; If the magnet is strong enough to pull the fluid in and create a vertical surface, wouldn't it be strong enough to keep the fluid from rising? Well the answer is which attraction is stronger? A simple experiment. Take a magnet and stick it to the fridge (the stronger the magnet the better) and then try to pull the magnet directly away. Now stick that same magnet to the fridge and remove it by sliding it to the edge of the fridge. The stronger the magnet the more you will notice that sliding it off the edge is easier than pulling it straight off. The same goes for the fluid. It's easier for the fluid to travel away from the magent by travelling parallel to it than it is for the fluid to travel away perpendicular to it. This will make the attracting force on the fluid entering from the bottom stronger than the attracting force that would hold the fluid from rising. So the magnet pulls the fluid in creating an increase in pressure, this pressure is instantly transfered through the fluid (since fluids are not compressable) and will travel the path of least resistance. UP. So once the fluid enters at the bottom there is now too much and the fluid will spill over at the top, run down the tube, and get pulled back into the main body to repeat the cycle all over again.Now what I described had the north pole of the magnet pointing up and south pole pointing down so that the magnet was parallel to the fluid but the poles are stronger than the sides so it would be more effective if the north or south pole of the magnet ran perpendicular to the main body of fluid with one of the poles pressed up against the side of the tube.
quote:Perpetual motion machines do not work! there are two critical trigger points in the design. The ball floating up and being deflected and the ball dropping down and penetrating far enough into the fluid to sart to float up the pipe my guesss is that where it fails is if it makes one of these trigger points successfully it wil not manage to make the other ie the ball is too heavy to pop out of the fluid or too light for its inertia to allow it to penetrate the fluid.
quote:Re the buoys: The simplest way to illustrate the problem is to imagine, not buoys, but a single, malleable, looped tube, such as a nosepipe, with sealed sections inside. The 'smooth' exterior would help to solve the problem of an efficient seal at the entrance to the base.However, I just *cannot* accept that the inner buoyancy would be enough to counteract the the level of pressure required to close that bloody seal!Also: how would an inner section of the 'hosepipe' know that it was at a certain depth inside the tank?
quote:Originally posted by NCoppedgeYour last question puzzles me. I don't see how any buoy must "know" where it is; its an inert tool and nothing more... Maybe I miss your point.
quote:On a large scale the machine might produce more than enough power to pump the spilled water back in. This makes sense, because buoys of proportionally larger diameter would have greater buoyancy relative to the size of the guide-wheels.
quote:Friction only effects forces in motion. Try to describe to me how I am "giving this machine a push" in a way that is not recouped when a single buoy passes through the lower seal!
quote:If i we're to get a piece of non sinking fishing line ,the type which is less dense than water and is designed to float and strung it around your apparatus would it revolve ON ITS OWN...
quote:Also if you increase the buoyancy force of the buoys by making the walls thinner increasing the internal void they will then weigh less once out of the water decreasing the level of kinetic energy they will have on the downward drop, so by added on one side your taking from the other.
quote:And increasing the number of buoys wouldnt help either, there will be no extra energy available to the system, even if you had 5,000,000 buoys strung round you apparatus, because any increase in the buoyancy force would be completely opposed by all the extra negative weight and friction you've added to the system.
quote:Originally posted by PrecursorJohnson's Permanent Magnetic Motor. The patent now belongs to a Howard I believe. Both people have created working models. NO the magnets will not lose their magnetism. I've seen that mentioned somewhere and I don't know where they got this but a permanent magnet's magnetic field can only be altered by either changing the temperature of the magnet or by using a more powerfull magnet.
quote:maybe if you did a normal fluid, without magnets, and the balls are passing through some sort of a funnel that will let the ball through one way, but will not let the water out. Any water spilled when the ball goes through can be collected in a drain and brought back to the top somehow. That requires no magnetism, and the only energy used to pump the spilled water could be generated by the wheel istelf, and excess energy will be used in whatever you are powering.
quote:That will not work because as soon as the ball enters the fluid through the one-way valve, it displaces a volume of that fluid which is equal to its own volume. It does so at the point of highest pressure, meaning that it must do work on the fluid equal to that pressure times its volume. Then it floats up, recovering exactly this energy (less viscous drag as well as the mgh figure for the ball, etc) by the time it reaches the top. Result: Zero net energy generated.
quote:Start from the beginning, using only two buoys -- one entering the base of the liquid, and one just about to descend. Would that work? Of course it wouldn't!