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What makes you so sure of yourself then as to assert the above ? Nothing , just a -priori held materialistic thin-air beliefs, no empirical evidence .Way to go, scientist.
Does Skinner's behaviourism not deny the very existence of the subjective inner experiences, emotions , will ,consciousness ,the mind ...as such ? Get real.
Furthermore, you're just confusing materialism with science still : non-materialist neuroscience and non-materialist cognitive psychology , the latter that relies on the former , are both consistent with QM ,not to mention that the non-materialist neuroscience is the best interpretation.....
"Non materialist neuroscience"?? Did I really just read that? That's hilarious, Don.
How can you learn , practice exercises or training, meditation, mindfulness, brain training , brain exercises , biofeedback training ...without mindful focus or attention and action of your conscious will ?
author=dlorde link=topic=52526.msg445609#msg445609 date=1417381397]Quote from: DonQuichotte on 30/11/2014 20:06:44What makes you so sure of yourself then as to assert the above ? Nothing , just a -priori held materialistic thin-air beliefs, no empirical evidence .Way to go, scientist.Ask NASA - they used Newtonian dynamics to direct their tours of the solar system. Are you suggesting they didn't happen?
The large-scale electronics in the device you use to post to these forums uses deterministic electronics, the microprocessor uses that and the precise predictability of quantum mechanics to function reliably. Your own body's biochemistry relies on predictable, repeatable reactions. The structure and behaviour of matter itself is determined by the interacting forces so precisely modelled by quantum field theory.
By all means carry on believing it's all down to immaterial, non-physical magic. That's entirely your decision.
You've been given enough information to understand should you wish to. The universe doesn't care what you believe, and science and the acquisition of knowledge will continue happily on its way without any need to invoke your redundant hypothesis.
author=Ethos_ link=topic=52526.msg445613#msg445613 date=1417390863]Quote from: cheryl j on 30/11/2014 23:21:27"Non materialist neuroscience"?? Did I really just read that? That's hilarious, Don.LOL,.................I'd appreciate an explanation for that one myself!!!
Come on Don!! Define "Non materialist neuroscience" without referencing the human nervous system. I double dog dare you!
Don't behave as if you have just heard that,don't be silly : (This whole thread is all about a certain manifesto for a post-materialistic science ,including for a post-materialistic neuroscience , remember .) i have even posted some excerpts of some books of non-materialist neuroscientist Mario Beauregard ,an excerpt from "The brain and the mind " by Jeffrey Schwatrz and Sharon Begley : a non-materialist cognitive psychology approach , to mention just that .
Quote from: DonQuichotte on 01/12/2014 18:06:19Don't behave as if you have just heard that,don't be silly : (This whole thread is all about a certain manifesto for a post-materialistic science ,including for a post-materialistic neuroscience , remember .) i have even posted some excerpts of some books of non-materialist neuroscientist Mario Beauregard ,an excerpt from "The brain and the mind " by Jeffrey Schwatrz and Sharon Begley : a non-materialist cognitive psychology approach , to mention just that .Yeah, and it's identical to dualism. They've just renamed it.
Quote from: DonQuichotte on 30/11/2014 19:22:38Does Skinner's behaviourism not deny the very existence of the subjective inner experiences, emotions , will ,consciousness ,the mind ...as such ? Get real. Uh no, he never did. At the time he did his research, there weren't MRIs, PETs, and much less was known about brain anatomy and biochemistry. Skinner just focused on what he could measure and test, which was observable behavior. But every new science has to start somewhere and his decision to start with that was a reasonable one. Even when models change, good data is still good data. QuoteFurthermore, you're just confusing materialism with science still : non-materialist neuroscience and non-materialist cognitive psychology , the latter that relies on the former , are both consistent with QM ,not to mention that the non-materialist neuroscience is the best interpretation....."Non materialist neuroscience"?? Did I really just read that? That's hilarious, Don.
Call it whatever you wanna call it (Irrelevant ) , but fact is : materialism is false , mainly because it cannot account for consciousness,
Quote from: DonQuichotte on 30/11/2014 18:29:06How can you learn , practice exercises or training, meditation, mindfulness, brain training , brain exercises , biofeedback training ...without mindful focus or attention and action of your conscious will ? There's nothing about attention that makes it extra magical or incompatible with neuroscience. Is though, an interesting topic, if you'd like to discuss it more in detail.
I've already explained to you, earlier on, that the fact that the classical deterministic mechanical Newtonian world view or classical physics,the fact that it is approximately correct and fundamentally false does not mean that it doesn't work on the large scale .
...at a macro scale, the world is deterministic to a high-level approximation...Quote...only if we would live in a deterministic mechanical universe that is : we don't .Strictly speaking perhaps not, but see above.
...only if we would live in a deterministic mechanical universe that is : we don't .
...QM can never be understood without reference to the mind , because they seem so inseparably and inescapably intertwined with each other, as a certain prominent physicist said...
Ironically enough , this whole thread is all about a certain manifesto for a post-materialistic science