Naked Science Forum
Non Life Sciences => Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology => Topic started by: omid on 02/08/2010 18:07:40
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Last night omid was watching this movie where a scientist communicate with the aliens and invite them on the earth through a special computer and the UFO actually lands on the earth.
omid's question is that is there any evidence found if aliens exist really?
if yes, how do we know?
if no,how do we know again?
any comment would be appreciated [:)]
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In MY opinion......the univserse is just so vast...bigger than ewe can possibly imagine....and new planets are being discovered every day that in MY opinion....life does..probably has..... and will exist somewhere else. It's quite possible that life exists elsewhere in our own solar system too.
Now ewe are being specific to the kind of alien life that ewe see in sci fi films and I am sure that intelliegent life of (of all levels compared to us) probably exists elsewhere too...in my opinion !
Just investigate some of the numbers regarding how big the universe is...and then it becomes almost difficult to believe that life does not exist anywhere else........oh...did i mention that this is in all my opinion !!
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As conditions have to be quite specific in order for life to exist, in my opinion, I don't think there are too many aliens per universe but there must be some out there. I guess we will only find out if we get a message. The good people at Jodrell bank are always listening and they have enormous ears pointing into the sky. I used to live really close to them. In my opinion we don't have any advanced species in our near proximity or they would have already contacted us.
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. . . . .actually i think i was contacted because i just received a text from am unknown sender. . . .The message reads "get 2 pizzas for the price of one" creepy !!
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. . . . .actually i think i was contacted because i just received a text from am unknown sender. . . .The message reads "get 2 pizzas for the price of one" creepy !!
I got something of the same...
"get 2 pizzas for the price of one" Cheapy !!
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With the most recent X-Conference in May at The National Press Club in Washington,D.C., it's getting harder and harder to not believe that there is a massive amount of highly credible evidence worldwide as to the existence of extraterrestrial beings and technology.
About the X-conference:
http://www.paradigmresearchgroup.org/X-Conference2010/X-Conference2010.htm
press conference video
Not a valid vimeo URL
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press conference video (Part 2) - UK RAF Bentwaters disclosure
Not a valid vimeo URL
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With the most recent X-Conference in May at The National Press Club in Washington,D.C., it's getting harder and harder to not believe that there is a massive amount of highly credible evidence worldwide as to the existence of extraterrestrial beings and technology.
I find it quite easy to believe that there is no credible evidence out there, especially when the alternative is a conspiracy to cover up UFO sightings. But regardless, there is no credible evidence available to science, and therefore no evidence of extraterrestrial life.
That doesn't mean that it isn't out there. I happen to agree with neil that it's extremely likely that life exists elsewhere in the universe. But it's very difficult to say what those odds are, since you'd need to know about how life can arise in a variety of conditions, and so far the only sample we have is the earth!
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There are many examples of life living under extreme conditions here on earth of course.....a whole variety adapted to 'non-human' conditions.
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JP, I think I agree with your point of scientific evidence. What sways me is more in the form of massive testimony from a very large array of very credible "witnesses" and participants (astronauts, scientists, presidents, top military personnel, police chiefs, commercial airline pilots, physicians, surgeons, conferences at MIT, etc.). More along the lines of evidence that would hold up in a court of law rather than a scientific laboratory. How can we totally dismiss this?
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I think the key question here is: what does the believer/disbeliever think constitutes real "evidence"?
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I just looked in my fridge for something that my wife cooked**. It seems to have developed it's own intelligence !
**The word 'cooked' here is used for indicative purposes in that the said item has undergone some form of preparation and treatment.
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See? Neil has just presented the kind of 'firm' evidence that we all need!
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Looking at things generally it is just about certain that basic life exists many times elsewhere in the observable universe and extremely probable that many examples of intelligent life with a capability at least equal to ours also exist in the observable universe at this moment. The big questions are, is it close enough and does it last long enough to have some chance of communicating with us. Even more fundamentally will we last long enough to communicate with them!
Most people just do not realise how big our galaxy is, let alone the size of the universe and how sparsely stars are distributed.
We have only had radio communications for about one hundred years and any radio signals from us have hardly reached even the most local bits in our galaxy and any returned message would take at least as long. The galaxy is one hundred thousand light years across and one hundred light years is only .1% of this and only contains a relatively small number of stars which are in our area around 4 light years apart. or about 50 cubic light years per star or in a volume of radius 100 light years around 20,000 stars most of which are very small and dim. Note this does not mean that they are poor possibilities of life because small dim stars are the most stable and long lived and planets at habitable distances are unlikely ever to be disturbed by close encounters with other stars.
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It's hard to think that "I Love Lucy", "Howdy Doody", and "Amos & Andy" is how we might all be represented to "them". [:)]
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We have only had radio communications for about one hundred years and any radio signals from us have hardly reached even the most local bits in our galaxy and any returned message would take at least as long.
And the signal power of those early transmissions is going to die off roughly like 1/R2, where R is the distance the signal has traveled. I wonder if these signals are even detectable against background noise at 100 light years...
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There may even be life in our back yard in the solar system, or something that constitutes life but very basic and would probably be single celled anyway or at least may have existed billions of years ago when conditions were different.
Intelligent life is a whole different kettle of fish, a thing worth the consideration is as soul surfer tried to give us an understanding of the sheer vastness of the universe and our galaxy, intelligent lifeforms may just simply see it as too big a waste of resources to journey to earth as we would have little to offer a civilization that could master the engineering and scientific challenges of traversing light years to earth. Even from a resources point of view, there isn't much on earth that could not be found elsewhere and in more abundance.
As for the chance to interact with lifeforms on a planet (earth) that is dominated by predatory species that feed of others (figuratively, literally and metaphorically) and has almost no unifying government that could agree unanimously on any form of exchange, trade or diplomatic relations well I will leave that for you to decide.
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Although there can be no doubt that in the vastness of the universe other forms of advanced and technologically able beings exist their rarity must be such that given the limited speed of light no communication could be possible.
I used to be enthusiastic about S.E.T.I but now believe it to be futile
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Syhprum I totally understand your frustration and am inclined to agree slightly I think relying on radio waves and thing that propagate at the speed of light is an ineffective way of communications between the huge voids and advance civilizations would also realize that and have developed other means.
The DRAKE EQUATION is a good way of breaking the information down into digestible bits.
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If we in fact have some reasonable evidence that alien technology that could help advance our civilization is being withheld, should we push for disclosure?
BTW, "conspiracy theories" turn me off, but how do I dismiss this huge lineup of credible 'witnesses' ? (as I posted above http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=33287.msg318326#msg318326 )
I'm not proselytizing, I'm seriously soliciting advice - one way or the other - as to whether I should bother getting involved.
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Demo,
I read through the list of speakers at the x-conference (from your link) - I must admit I was pretty underwhelmed. You mention above standards of legal proof against a scientific standard; very little of the testimony I have seen for alien visitation would be enough to get to trial let alone secure a conviction. Uncorroborated witness testimony, with no physical evidence, especially in an area which has its share of charlatans and hoaxers(qv crop circles) would not constitute even prima facie evidence. I would not question the honesty and self-belief of the majority of the participants at such conferences - but people can convince themselves of anything (you mention the conspiracy theorists).
There are probably thousands of amateur astronomers with fairly decent optics and cameras out every night in the UK alone - yet not one decent photograph. To dedicate any real time to this area is, in my belief, a little wasteful - there are so many areas where amateur scientists make a real difference it would be a shame to devote effort to a fruitless pursuit.
Matthew
BTW I desperately want there to be aliens - I just don't believe they come here on day trips
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The sun is about 4.5 billion years old. Most of the stars in the galaxy vary from 1 billion to 10 billion years old. Life on earth is thought to have started possibly as early as 3.5 billion years ago with early humans only about 200,000 years ago. It does not need a lot of maths to realise that if life is anything like common in the galaxy, then the likely range of development must be something like between 5.5 billion years in advance of earth's to 2.5 billion years behind.
Assuming that humans are not in any way special then we are faced with a huge range in the development of alien cultures (+/- billions of years). If interstellar travel is in any way practical it is unimaginable (at least to me) that such aliens would not know about earth already. If, for any reason, they visit or monitor the earth we simply would not know about it if they did not want to let us be aware of them; the technology difference would be too great. On this basis I doubt the veracity of sightings and rather feel that there is little point pondering the issue until the aliens, should they be around, wish to communicate with us. I doubt this will happen until we reach the stage of being "in their faces" (if they have them) and have interstellar travel capability, which is a long time off I think.
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The only way I can conceive of inter stellar travel being possible is if the crew have a different conception of time to us with lifetimes of maybe 100,000 years.
In this case their communitions would be at a much lower data rate, the Aricibo receivers that S.E.T.I use look for signals within a bendwidth of about 1 Hz perhaps they should be using a bandwidth of 0.001 Hz which might be difficult.
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Matthew, I sincerely appreciate your view, and I will seriously take it into account as I deliberate how much, if any, time I should put into this direction.
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Syphrum, I would not rule out interstellar travel just because we can't see how to do it. Our understanding is limited. Who knows what can be worked out in the next million years or so, or even just 1000 years. Agreed there are the slight obstacles of the vast energy required and problems of time dilation (or very slow travel - take your pick), but there may be ways around these limitations (warp drives, wormholes etc) given enough knowledge and a little engineering.
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Let us, for the sake of the argument, assume that alien life does exist and that 'they' can visit earth because they are advanced. What would they see when they get here? Take yourself out of this world and look at it objectively...
1. humans are at war with each other, sometimes genocidally so
2. there is murder and mayhem, psychosis-inducing drugs and so on
3. there are madmen at the head of some countries
4. there is competition for technology so that we can build better bombs with which to kill each other
5. there is competition for resources because there are too many of us
6. our laws allow us to take from the poor to give more to the rich
7. the people sworn to protect society (even those who are elected) are corruptible and evil
8. we squander resources at each others' expense because we believe that consumerism is good for us
9. the most profound philosophies e.g. religion has tuned us into stark raving lunatics
Now consider the alien from planet X:
They are at war with planet Y about a Dyson sphere that they built together. They basically have the same problems as us but on a different level. Planet Y also knows about us.
What happens when Mr. X lands in Washington? Does Mrs. Y land a delegation in Pyongyang? And what happens if they show us their 'stuff' and our view of the cosmos is so fundamentally challenged that we think they are devils? And who do we trust? Mr. X or Mrs. Y. And what if Mrs. Y is REALLY acting in our interest but their species is uglier than Mr. X's species? Do we believe Vanity Fair or the political review? And who is bribing who at the top level and how much is big business getting? And what if Mrs. Y has already cut a deal with big business and their lobby groups? So what if a couple of billion of us die? There are too many of us anyway!
But hey; somewhere there is also a level III civilization who are watching 'them' and 'us' closely and who wisely decide that it is not a good idea for Mr. X and Mrs. Y to land here. So they explode their vessels with, as yet undiscovered and untraceable, energy beams.
And who knows who watches the watchers...
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Agreed with Graham, what seems impossible or outlandish sometimes becomes reality. I bet if you described todays world to a scientist 120 years ago they would laugh... and probably hang you :D In seriousness though I don't see a reason why that trend can't continue and ways of ftl may be a reality.
A room with monkeys typewriters given a huge period of time could type the script of Shakespeare just like an alien race with a huge time for development could find away around the problems of interstellar travel.
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I now have the categorical proof that ALIENS do exist !!
Watch this and be amazed ..
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2473203/louis_therouxs_weird_weekends_korton/
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General McAuliffe said it best: NUTS!
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I now have the categorical proof that ALIENS do exist !!
Watch this and be amazed ..
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2473203/louis_therouxs_weird_weekends_korton/
Neil, I just KNEWE if anyone could solve this ancient question, it would be...EWE!
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And, Sheepy Neil, the most absolutely convincing evidence is the small model spacecraft (not to be confused with a plastic toy!!) - sitting off to the side of the Space Channeler as he conducts his incredible Extraterrestrial Visitation!
Champagne celebration is in order here!!! Skeptics: eat your heart out! [:)]
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"A room with monkeys typewriters given a huge period of time could type the script of Shakespeare"
If you do the calculation of the time it would take for this roomfull of monkeys to type out the complete works of Shakespeare you will find it vastly greater than the conceivable life of the universe
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Syphrum the Shakespeare reference was not to be connected with the concievability of life, but more to do with the time it would take a race to master FTL, the point being given a huge amount of time pretty much anything can be achieved within limits.
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Neil, do ewe get the impression that you and I are the only ones taking each other seriously here???
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I now have the categorical proof that ALIENS do exist !!
Watch this and be amazed ..
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2473203/louis_therouxs_weird_weekends_korton/
Bad news! I was doing some research on the subject* and I came across this disturbing link...
http://demicouture.ca/2009/12/02/toddlands-piece-de-resistance-aliensheep-sweater-is-knit-gold/
I think they're after you, Neil!
*Ok... so I was Googling +alien +sheep +abduction
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Neil, do ewe get the impression that you and I are the only ones taking each other seriously here???
Quite right Demo !..we ae dealing with this subject in a most scientific authoritative way .....with diligence and duty !
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I now have the categorical proof that ALIENS do exist !!
Watch this and be amazed ..
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2473203/louis_therouxs_weird_weekends_korton/
Bad news! I was doing some research on the subject* and I came across this disturbing link...
http://demicouture.ca/2009/12/02/toddlands-piece-de-resistance-aliensheep-sweater-is-knit-gold/
I think they're after you, Neil!
*Ok... so I was Googling +alien +sheep +abduction
Uh oh !!...ewe're right....they are after me....the manufacturers are still awaiting their next consignment of sheepy wool that I owe them ! [;)]
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Sheepy Neil, I'm afraid JP is right!!!
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frlv.zcache.com%2Fwhy_me_ufo_sheep_abduction_card-p137743665253058425qt1t_400.jpg&hash=12c862180ba410132e65d30af14c0c9f)
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I think titan may hold a key to strange different life from earth that is a small but real possibility. The only other planet in the solar system which has a dense atmosphere, seas, possibly lakes and rivers (of ethane not water) with an active climate of wind and rain and features similar to earth such as sand dunes etc.
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Well, as far as evidence go, we don't have much...
...We do not know for sure if life is present in our solar system, let alone our galaxy, let alone the Universe!
Does anyone else think that there's a reasonable possibility that some evidence is being withheld?
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Well, as far as evidence go, we don't have much...
...We do not know for sure if life is present in our solar system, let alone our galaxy, let alone the Universe!
Does anyone else think that there's a reasonable possibility that some evidence is being withheld?
I rather doubt that information is being withheld. That sort of information would find a way of being revealed. Thanks for comments. Joe L. Ogan
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Rami, you are right, well spotted Titan is a moon of saturn I guess I forgot when I was generalizing places for life.
In terms of information being withheld about ET life well I think that would be very doubtful as a secret that big would eventually leak as someone would sooner or later spill the beans. I don't see the governments of the world being able to hold any more information than the civilian and industry when it comes to extra terrestrial phenomena.. but there is always the chance...
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Well, as far as evidence go, we don't have much...
...We do not know for sure if life is present in our solar system, let alone our galaxy, let alone the Universe!
Does anyone else think that there's a reasonable possibility that some evidence is being withheld?
I rather doubt that information is being withheld. That sort of information would find a way of being revealed. Thanks for comments. Joe L. Ogan
Here's some interesting testimony by Dr Edgar Mitchell, former NASA astronaut - at last year's X-Conference, about which I posted here earlier:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/04/20/ufo.conference/index.html?iref=allsearch
And his interview on The Discovery Channel:
http://dsc.discovery.com/space/qa/alien-ufo-edgar-mitchell.html
Dr Mitchell earned his PhD from MIT and studied astronomy at Harvard and MIT.
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The only way I can conceive of inter stellar travel being possible is if the crew have a different conception of time to us with lifetimes of maybe 100,000 years.
1. Our ancestors were not averse to undertaking voyages of several years duration for exploration. Darwin, for example spent almost 7% of his life on the Beagle. If our hypothetical aliens had a lifespan of only five hundred years and were willing to devote similar ppercentage of their lives they could comfortably travel to adjacent stars moving at no more than 10% of the speed of light.
2. Large generation ships could travel very long distances at slow speeds.
3. Deep freeze the crew and revive them on arrival.
4. Send only frozen embryos or eggs and sperm. Have AIs initiate growth on arrival at the target system, and raise the first generation.
5. How it's actually done, but I haven't thought of yet.
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There are big problems with traveling a 1. c small flecks of paint are considered a worry for satellites travelling at 10Km/s guess what a speck of dust would do to a spacecraft travelling at .1 c
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.Transportation via entanglement or quantum tunneling
.Hyperspace via wormholes(if it exists)
.sub light percentage of speed drives eg anti matter, or tritium fusion drives (just with a way to avoid interacting with debris would be a major issue)
.folding space
These are just a few hypothetical means to travel across the galaxy/universe effectively but they all require one thing HUGE amounts of energy, our combined consumption and production of our planet does not even approach 1% of whats needed so from an outsiders perspective what would be the point in venturing to a planet thats got little to offer (although they could fuel up at jupiter resources wise).
Again just to re iterate a civilization that has mastered intergalactic travel would have little to gain from us culturally, technologically and spiritually even with our diversity they would probably more likely be seeking out their equals or peers in the universe.
In short we don't go to ant hills and say to the ants "take me to your leader, I bring trinkets and treasures to share" {quote Micheo Kaku theoretical Physicist new york}.
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Again just to re iterate a civilization that has mastered intergalactic travel would have little to gain from us culturally, technologically and spiritually even with our diversity they would probably more likely be seeking out their equals or peers in the universe.
In short we don't go to ant hills and say to the ants "take me to your leader, I bring trinkets and treasures to share" {quote Micheo Kaku theoretical Physicist new york}.
Much as I like Micheo Kaku - he's wrong; we do that all the time. We presume that we are not understood - and the trinkets and treasure are food in a controlled environment - but every day hundreds of experiments are undertaken that involve gifts of food to other species to induce communication. Just today on the radio they were describing a breakthrough with an orang-utan that can perform mimes of the action he wants his human audience to re-enact. If you give the orang a sealed coconut he will mime opening it with a machete and then hand it back to be opened.
But we presume that the animals don't really understand us, perhaps the aliens have made similar presumptions; so I guess your point still stands
Matthew
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There are big problems with traveling a 1. c small flecks of paint are considered a worry for satellites travelling at 10Km/s guess what a speck of dust would do to a spacecraft travelling at .1 c
Big problems are what engineering is for. Magnetic fields deflect any charged particles. Lasers distinegrate larger items. Subtle adjustments to course allow avoidance of sizeable objects. and you have a ruddy big ablative shield sticking out in front. 10 metres thick layered composites should do the trick.
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Subtle course adjustments whilst travelling at ten percent of the speed of light? Back of envelope calcs a grain of salt at 0.1c has kinetic energy in the terajoule range - about a tenth of the original atomic bombs.
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Is that really true? Thanks for comments. Joe L. Ogan
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In our terms there are no subtle adjustments when travelling at 10% speed of light, a second and your millions of miles of course. Although for a race advanced enough to even reach that speed would (in my opinion) be able to get round the problem of space debris.
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There are many examples of life living under extreme conditions here on earth of course.....a whole variety adapted to 'non-human' conditions.
Of all the statements in this thread, I have to agree with this one the most. If "life" can exist in such inhospitable conditions like this, surely there can be "life" existing somewhere else in the universe.
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Yes like we have said on places like europa and titan, but the million dollar question is CAN COMPLEX life exist in these conditions, that I would give my left arm to know.
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Just curious, why doesn't testimony like Dr Edgar Mitchell's that I posted seem to spark any interest? I can rattle off many, many more people with credentials that are hard to dismiss. Not definitive by a long stretch, but in my mind at least, awfully intriguing as possible evidence worth exploring!
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Just curious, why doesn't testimony like Dr Edgar Mitchell's that I posted seem to spark any interest? I can rattle off many, many more people with credentials that are hard to dismiss. Not definitive by a long stretch, but in my mind at least, awfully intriguing as possible evidence worth exploring!
I ignore him because, apart from being to the moon (and I know that is a big 'apart'), he is just one guy who frankly seems a little odd. I actively dislike those who promulgate distance healing, as I believe it causes great misery and suffering in those who are duped into believing it.
My failure which is in common with the bulk of scientific community to dismiss these tales of aliens/roswell/etc could be one of the greatest failing of modern science - but i do not think so. The promoters still believe in crop circles - I knew the people who made those (well some of them.) I have sat watching people on tv explain the evidence that they could never be man-made with the man that made them sitting next to me.
Matthew
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Thanks, Matthew! I've looked at Roswell over the last 15 years, talked to "witnesses", spoke with and read an enormous amount from both believers as well as skeptics, and spoke with and read the most credible researchers I could find.
Predictably, I found the numerous flakes, liars, and cashing-in types, inconsistencies, on and on, in abundance.
But after each new round of exposed-hogwash, I nevertheless consistently continue to find possibilities that - as a whole pattern - won't allow me to dismiss the case and move on.
I almost wish that the remaining, lightly nagging wonderment would finally go away so that I can focus more on real tangibles. But I can't.
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Aliens definitely exists. I have one now in my basement.
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Do you have a name for him, her or it? Thanks for comments. Joe L. Ogan
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I heard an interesting point today in a science podcast. They were interviewing some SETI scientists and asked what would happen if an extraterrestrial signal were detected. The response was that it's impossible for the government to jump in and hush it up--in fact, they know what would happen since they had a false alarm in 1997. The media immediately began calling up and printing stories, even before the scientists could check to see if the signal was manmade or not. Of course, it turned out to be manmade, but it became pretty clear that the government doesn't have a plan in place to hush up the findings.
From the SETI page:
That’s a very important, and currently unavoidable fact. Another relevant circumstance is that SETI is done in the open. For example, at every radio telescope we’ve ever used, there are observatory (not SETI) personnel in the control room 24/7, not to mention local visitors and a raft of other interested parties (Jimi Hendrix’s sister, several Silicon Valley executives, Isaac Asimov’s daughter, and Miss Puerto Rico are among many who toured the control room at Arecibo during Project Phoenix observations). If we’re looking at an interesting signal – one that’s passing the tests that can separate the local interference from an extraterrestrial transmission – then a lot of people know, even before we call up someone in another state or another country to verify its reality. The excitement begins to build long before the detection is confirmed.
What happens thereafter departs from the protocol, because the media start calling. When, in June of 1997, we had a suspicious signal on our computer screens, a New York Times science reporter was on the phone with me within hours. At the same time, a TV crew was, by chance, in the control room of the telescope. As it turned out, that signal, which slipped by our usual software filters due to an equipment malfunction, was from a European research satellite (SOHO) whose telemetry was bouncing around the steelwork of the radio telescope.
It all means the following: you will be media-blasted about a possible detection days before the people who find it are certain it’s for real. (This may pose a dilemma for SETI Institute scientists, who always keep a bottle of champagne at the observing site. When do we pop the cork?) There’s also the near-certain consequence that there will be false alarms for SETI experiments in the future, as reporters describe interesting signals which, upon closer inspection, turn out to be telecommunication satellites, airport radar, or just electronic noise.
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JP, I couldn't agree with you more. Plus at the end of the day, the people working for the government are only human and it only takes one to leak info.
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There is a report of the investigation into the 1977 'WOW' incident, it is very thorough and seems to exclude terrestrial sources.
http://www.bigear.org/Wow30th/wow30th.htm
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SETI is out in the open, Roswell was a secretive operation, the only military base worldwide trained and ready for atomic bomb missions. Unlike SETI's media environment of today, in those early postwar days, the media did as they were told.
I've seen video testimony of the Roswell chief intelligence officer (I also spoke to his son, now a military surgeon, who saw the strange, alleged ET material), as well as many other highly trained/skilled personnel - in the 70s, _way_ before the Roswell media hoopla and amateur circus began.
Severe military threats (numerous death threats, including threats toward family) as well as ET craft and alien-life forms were testified about - repeatedly.
I just don't know how we can write off so many statements from so many credible individuals.
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I just don't know how we can write off so many statements from so many credible individuals.
I am interested in how you are defining credible. I'm not sure I consider any individual credible. I certainly don't consider myself credible as a source of eye-witness testimony, so I am slightly unsure of why I should think this way of others.
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I am interested in how you are defining credible.
The key witness was the chief intelligence officer of the only atomic bomb military unit in the world. His job was to know aircraft. He stated clearly in his video testimony that the craft was unlike any found on earth.
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I am interested in how you are defining credible.
The key witness was the chief intelligence officer of the only atomic bomb military unit in the world. His job was to know aircraft. He stated clearly in his video testimony that the craft was unlike any found on earth.
But his job probably didn't entail identifying crashed weather balloons. Any debate here is just going to come down to whether the eyewitness accounts that haven't been debunked are strong enough in their entirety to make a case for extraterrestrials visiting earth.
I come down on the side that eyewitness accounts are very poor evidence to begin with, especially since so many surrounding UFOs have been debunked. Clearly there's some compelling reason a lot of people tell false accounts of UFOs--some clearly want publicity and some have convinced themselves that their stories are true despite them being demonstrably false.
Anyway, in support of memories being faulty, here's another interesting read from Slate:
http://www.slate.com/id/2256089/
It's got nothing to do with UFOs, but is a very interesting account of the research into implanting and modifying memories and how fallible eyewitness testimony can be.
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I can't apply that logic for 2 reasons: (1) hundreds of people essentially saying the same thing, with a strong pattern emerging - starting way back before media reporting and books could influence statements, individual, minute details corroborating each other and forming a lucid, logical story, and (2) extraordinary events with deep personal meanings (e.g., death threats) stand out far stronger in people's memories.
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I am interested in how you are defining credible.
The key witness was the chief intelligence officer of the only atomic bomb military unit in the world. His job was to know aircraft. He stated clearly in his video testimony that the craft was unlike any found on earth.
But his job probably didn't entail identifying crashed weather balloons.
Hundreds and hundreds of them. NYU projects, Alamagordos, White Sands, on and on. It was THE most common occurrence in the vicinity.
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At the end of the day, there is no CREDIBLE testable evidence and as scientists on "the naked scientist" we like testable material otherwise it is just another interesting theory. Even if I conceded the fact that an alien ship did appear over Roswell area, I find it extremely unlikely that a race could travel trillions and trillions of miles yet to crash their ship on earth. It would be like running a marathon and falling face first on the finish line. Also a race with that tech wouldn't allow themselves to be experimented on. Sorry but it sounds like wishfull thinking to me.
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I know that there were aliens in the spaceship that crashed at Roswell as I saw an autopsy conducted on TV on one of the bodies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_autopsy
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At the end of the day, there is no CREDIBLE testable evidence .....
On the other hand such evidence as there is is wholly consistent with the proven unreliability of eyewitnesses and the gullibility of the population at large.
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The US military say that the debris recovered from a high space weather event is that which is claimed as a body of an alien. Thanks for comments. Joe L. Ogan
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At the end of the day, there is no CREDIBLE testable evidence
You don't know that for certain. There is enough credible testimony to suggest otherwise. I don't know for certain either, all I'm saying is let's find out 100% either way.
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The US military say that the debris recovered from a high space weather event is that which is claimed as a body of an alien. Thanks for comments. Joe L. Ogan
With a 10-year gap between testimony and military "hypothesis".
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Well, there is really not much evidence of aliens but it is sort like religion, if you want to believe it, you do not need much evidence, just take it on faith! Thanks for comments. Joe L. Ogan
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I know that there were aliens in the spaceship that crashed at Roswell as I saw an autopsy conducted on TV on one of the bodies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_autopsy
Thanks for bringing this up. This is an example of "evidence" that - personally - I believe has been sufficiently debunked and warrants no further investigation.
The other testimonial info? It goes way beyond "wishful thinking". My opinion. But I certainly can't point to a neat laboratory filled with hard ET data and artifacts. [:)]
Admittedly, this is a "gray" area (no pun intended), but considering the giant implications for mankind, it's a worthwhile limited pursuit.
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Well, there is really not much evidence of aliens but it is sort like religion, if you want to believe it, you do not need much evidence, just take it on faith! Thanks for comments. Joe L. Ogan
Excellent analogy, but I suspect there is hard data "out there" to give ufology a bit of a harder edge over religion.
I could be wrong, but I'm not _quite_ ready just yet to throw in the towel. Too many nagging questions!
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Aliens definitely exists. I have one now in my basement.
Do you have a name for him, her or it? Thanks for comments. Joe L. Ogan
Could The Naked Scientists borrow him/her/it for just a week? Please? It would really help my case at this thread...
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There are way too many theories for one in particulat to be deemed true