Naked Science Forum
General Science => General Science => Topic started by: CZARCAR on 08/05/2011 19:22:59
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will the ddeepfry kill the bugs & how low can the temp go? Pasteur i know but this is about other than milk..........thanx
Mod edit - formated the subject as a question - please do so to help keep the forum tidy and easy to navigate. Thanks.
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I think there are toxins created by the bugs - and they can be quite deadly and I am not sure how they are affected by heat. I looked up botulinum toxin (aka sausage poison) and it seems to be denatured at 60degC - but I would be surprised if there weren't others that were more heat tolerant.
We can eat meat that is well past its "use-by date" - I have eaten game that was hung in traditional methods till the first maggots fell! Personally I found the taste unpleasant - but others raved over it.
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chicken was bought past due date, frozen~ 6mo., & thaed 2 days in fridge. Smelled funky prior to frying but fried & ate some yesterday & seems ok..bowl full of cold chicken smells better today
BTW heard that military survival training involves letting the meat rot & eating the maggots so to extend the food supply
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past due date, frozen too long, not eaten on day of defrost, kept for another day - well you seem to be giving yourself a good opportunity to get food poisoning!
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past due date, frozen too long, not eaten on day of defrost, kept for another day - well you seem to be giving yourself a good opportunity to get food poisoning!
if it tastes/smells bad i spit it out! & give kitty a chance.Considering the big recall of US lettuce last year, i think i prefer well cooked food though rareish pork & meat is yummy! with meat the MADCOW cant be cooked out anyway?
i almost think i fried the nasty smell out of that chicken & maybe that indicates the bugs are dead?
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I would be afraid of the chicken and the pork even more than the beef. I think you are taking a chance that you could be very sick. Thanks for comments. Joe L. Ogan
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I will go along with Joe - in general Chicken and pork should be properly cooked through and should not be eaten rare, lamb can be eaten pink/rare and beef can be eaten uncooked. A bad dose of food poisoning can be really horrible for a healthy adult, for a child or the elderly it can be dangerous.
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though rareish pork
I have only one thing to say. Trichinosis [;D]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trichinosis
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I have only one thing to say. Trichinosis [;D]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trichinosis
Trichinosis is primarily from raw pork muscle. I had thought it wasn't in the USA, but the Wikipedia article says "The CDC reports 0.013% of U.S. swine is infected with Trichinella.[26]"
Most of the "food poisoning" will be destroyed by cooking. For example, Staph Aureus Toxin is one of the big things for quick onset food poisoning. Usually not too bad, but it can send one for a few extra bathroom trips. It is denatured with cooking. Salmonella and other bugs will also be killed with cooking. The meal still may not taste appetizing.
The MADCOW cant be cooked out anyway?
Correct.
The Prions in Mad Cow disease are highly resistant to heat. It was spread by renderers cooking meat and animal waste to make a powdered protein supplement, and then feeding it to cows.
I have a bad habit of eating that little white stuff at the back of a bone of a T-Bone steak. Probably the highest risk for acquiring the disease.
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Another lovely thing to remember is Botulism, as the toxin survives cooking in most cases.
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Another lovely thing to remember os Botulism, as the toxin survives cooking in most cases.
Although the botulinum toxin is destroyed by thorough cooking over the course of a few minutes, the spore itself is not killed by the temperatures reached with normal sea-level-pressure boiling, leaving it free to grow and again produce the toxin when conditions are right= Wikipedia......gotta add i'm frying in an electric pressure cooker & cant remember what i did but still aint sick..............so q= how long under what pressure to kill the BOTCHulism...?
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I don't know, but have survived institutional food before without too much aside from a temporary residence in a small room with no view and a hankering for wishing the bottom would keep from falling out of my world. My recommendation is to avoid it if possible. If your dog will not eat it you should not eat it either.
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just finished it after 10 days in fridge & the only time it kinda stunk was after microwaving for reheating
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CZARCAR: You are playing with something that is very dangerous. You may get away with it for a time but, sooner or later, you are going to wind up as a very sick or dead man. Please quit doing that. Thanks for comments. Joe L. Ogan
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CZARCAR: You are playing with something that is very dangerous. You may get away with it for a time but, sooner or later, you are going to wind up as a very sick or dead man. Please quit doing that. Thanks for comments. Joe L. Ogan
thanx but i'm wondering moreso about the microwave
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The Microwave does not sterilize the food either. Thanks for comments. Joe L. Ogan
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i almost think i fried the nasty smell out of that chicken & maybe that indicates the bugs are dead?
Smell helps, but just because it smells ok doesn't mean it's safe. I got a nasty case of food poisoning a couple of years back from food that smelled and tasted absolutely fine.
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This whole thread is weird.
The simple fact it that bad food smells bad because it's bad for you.
Cooking it might kill the bugs, but won't reliably destroy the toxins.
Why take the risk?
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This whole thread is weird.
The simple fact it that bad food smells bad because it's bad for you.
Cooking it might kill the bugs, but won't reliably destroy the toxins.
Why take the risk?
duh, all about the money honey! but on the flip side we find that charred meat may produce carcinogenic stuff?
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CZARCAR: You are playing with something that is very dangerous. You may get away with it for a time but, sooner or later, you are going to wind up as a very sick or dead man. Please quit doing that. Thanks for comments. Joe L. Ogan
I think the food poisoning thing is overrated.
The bacteria and toxins you will be exposed to will likely make you uncomfortable, and not kill you, as long as you are relatively healthy to begin with.
BOTOX is serious stuff, but I don't think it is common on meat that is a few weeks old.
Otherwise, Staph Aureus means a few quick trips to the toilet. The bugs are killed quickly, and may even be dead with your cooking, but it is one of the "toxin" forming bacteria, and the effects are from the buildup of generally non-lethal toxins which make you uncomfortable, not killing you.
Salmonella, perhaps a few extra trips to the bathroom, but the re-cooking should kill it anyway.
E-Coli. The majority of the E-Coli you will encounter is the same that is already colonizing your gut. Enterohemolytic E-Coli is rare, and won't spontaneously appear because you have extended the shelf life of the foods.
Likewise, Hep-A is Fecal-Oral transmitted, and won't be growing in your steak. It was either there when you bought it, or won't be there later.
Keep in mind the difference between a hamburger vs a steak and roast. A steak tends to have bugs growing from the outside-in. So, cook the outsides, and it is relatively safe, at least from things like E-Coli. A hamburger gets "waste-meat" ground up and mixed through it, so it needs to be cooked through to the center.
Also, rodents are bad news.
So, while a steak sitting on the counter or in the fridge for a while picks up ordinary environmental bacteria that you are exposed to on a daily basis, the rodents can carry other diseases that you may not in fact have immunity to.
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I think the food poisoning thing is overrated.
Easy for you to say!
I was "struck down" for about two weeks after eating a burger at Jack-in-the-Box in the early eighties. It turned out I was not alone. Sadly, by the time I found out the likely cause, it was too late to do anything about it.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat-stable_enterotoxin
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat-stable_enterotoxin
i'm above 100*c cooking ! + whats the pressurizing factor do?
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I think the food poisoning thing is overrated.
Easy for you to say!
I was "struck down" for about two weeks after eating a burger at Jack-in-the-Box in the early eighties. It turned out I was not alone. Sadly, by the time I found out the likely cause, it was too late to do anything about it.
Again, it depends on the cause.
If you got Hep-A, then fresh food vs month-old food would be no different. In fact, for some diseases you'd be better off with the well-aged food.
When cooking, you have to make sure you are cooking all the way through. There might be some benefits of deep frying, or something that gets really hot, except that you will also contaminate your oil.
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Why didn't you cook the food earlier i.e. before it went off?
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/24/pork-cooking-temperature-usda-145-degrees_n_866066.html yummmmmm
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That site refers to well reared fresh pork; it hasn't a lot to do with this thread.
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/24/pork-cooking-temperature-usda-145-degrees_n_866066.html yummmmmm
Sounds delicious, but I wouldn't eat one of those if it were left to rot before being cooked to such a low temperature.
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/24/pork-cooking-temperature-usda-145-degrees_n_866066.html yummmmmm
Sounds delicious, but I wouldn't eat one of those if it were left to rot before being cooked to such a low temperature.
Have you tried Prosciutto Crudo?
Well... not rotten... but....
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/24/pork-cooking-temperature-usda-145-degrees_n_866066.html yummmmmm
Sounds delicious, but I wouldn't eat one of those if it were left to rot before being cooked to such a low temperature.
Have you tried Prosciutto Crudo?
Well... not rotten... but....
One of my favorites! I like to toss it over a margherita pizza with some arugula. Deliciously unrotten!
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That site refers to well reared fresh pork; it hasn't a lot to do with this thread.
ok, take the "well reared pork" package it sealed, & age it..........where do the new bugs come from? that arent neutralized by the same cooking procedure