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Real Life Show : Caught on Candid Camera :...dlorde : Cartesian dualistic dichotomy between mind and matter and that they are allegedly different separate from each other substances was a false one indeed anyway .Descartes was a clever guy though .Our modern world is Cartesian ,despite the flaws of Cartesian thought .
Real Life Show : Caught on Candid Camera : I wanted to surprise our dear friends here below ,so, i planted some undetectable mini cams all over the place where they were gathering to celebrate the holidays ahead of time .
Sir Don.......I must confess that I did enjoy your little melodrama. Much better than traditional soap opera I must say.
Quote from: DonQuichotte on 09/12/2014 18:39:42... can you care to enlighten us about how such qualitative subjective memories that are a matter of qualitative subjective experiences , taste , preferences , aesthetics , morality , ethics ... can you tell us how they can be quantified or computed by the related or correlated quantitative brain activity ? Brain-damaged individuals can undergo a personality change,becoming aggressive and/or libidinous ...Quote from: caring.com... some people with AD [ Alzheimer's Disease] do things that are totally uncharacteristic of personality before the disease. Swearing (yes, even precious sweet elderly ladies!), spitting, becoming socially inept and impulsive with inappropriate words or actions, and sexual advances may appear for some folks. https://www.caring.com/questions/dementia-and-personality-change So their moral judgement has been modified by deactivation [destruction] of part of their brain .And of course persons suffering from dementia lose their memory.
... can you care to enlighten us about how such qualitative subjective memories that are a matter of qualitative subjective experiences , taste , preferences , aesthetics , morality , ethics ... can you tell us how they can be quantified or computed by the related or correlated quantitative brain activity ?
... some people with AD [ Alzheimer's Disease] do things that are totally uncharacteristic of personality before the disease. Swearing (yes, even precious sweet elderly ladies!), spitting, becoming socially inept and impulsive with inappropriate words or actions, and sexual advances may appear for some folks.
author=Ethos_ link=topic=52526.msg446260#msg446260 date=1418164079]Quote from: DonQuichotte on 09/12/2014 19:32:13Real Life Show : Caught on Candid Camera : I wanted to surprise our dear friends here below ,so, i planted some undetectable mini cams all over the place where they were gathering to celebrate the holidays ahead of time .Sir Don.......I must confess that I did enjoy your little melodrama. Much better than traditional soap opera I must say.
What truly astounds me is that someone as intelligent as you respectfully are could have such a mental block to what is so very obvious to the rest of us. Nothing in this world, will ever be fully understood or documented without the measure of observation by means of material resource, which by the way includes the brain.
When you constantly refer to "the immaterial" please ask yourself how the immaterial reconciles with even quantum physics. Even the quantum realm requires attention to material objects such as the smallest atomic units of mass and charge. If we leave out material, what is left? Nothingness
Even the wave forms are disturbances in the fabric of space/time. And space/time can't ever be considered as immaterial.
How can you honestly reconcile this immaterial logic of yours with the material universe?
author=RD link=topic=52526.msg446249#msg446249 date=1418156225]Quote from: DonQuichotte on 09/12/2014 18:39:42... the brain is an ever changing theater thanks to neuropalsticity and self-directed neuroplasticity .... the assumption that the mind and its memories ...are just brain activity , and hence memories can be stored in the brain....is just a materialistic extension of the materialistic fundamental intrinsic claim that all is matter , including the mind = no empirical evidence .Why is brain-growth and neuroplasticity necessary if the brain is a dumb terminal communicating with a remote cloud database ?.
... the brain is an ever changing theater thanks to neuropalsticity and self-directed neuroplasticity .... the assumption that the mind and its memories ...are just brain activity , and hence memories can be stored in the brain....is just a materialistic extension of the materialistic fundamental intrinsic claim that all is matter , including the mind = no empirical evidence .
I could see, hear, walk & remember some information when I was 5 years old , why did I need to grow a bigger brain as I became an adult ?. Answer: because memories are stored in the brain, not remotely. If the data storage [memory] was in a remote location a child-sized brain would be more than sufficient to get through life.
the mental is the key component or key 'building block " of the universe , a primary one at that
author=cheryl j link=topic=52526.msg446296#msg446296 date=1418224294]Quote from: RD on 09/12/2014 19:06:49Quote from: DonQuichotte on 09/12/2014 18:39:42... can you care to enlighten us about how such qualitative subjective memories that are a matter of qualitative subjective experiences , taste , preferences , aesthetics , morality , ethics ... can you tell us how they can be quantified or computed by the related or correlated quantitative brain activity ? Brain-damaged individuals can undergo a personality change,becoming aggressive and/or libidinous ...Quote from: caring.com... some people with AD [ Alzheimer's Disease] do things that are totally uncharacteristic of personality before the disease. Swearing (yes, even precious sweet elderly ladies!), spitting, becoming socially inept and impulsive with inappropriate words or actions, and sexual advances may appear for some folks. https://www.caring.com/questions/dementia-and-personality-change So their moral judgement has been modified by deactivation [destruction] of part of their brain .And of course persons suffering from dementia lose their memory. We've talked about disease and disorder changing not only function and ability but Don sees it as being like a broken radio that no longer receives or transmits the true, nonlocal consciousness. Aside from lack of evidence for a receiver model, it's hard to explain changes to personality or morality, which Don also sees as attributes of the immaterial will. It's even harder to explain changes to qualitative conscious experience itself, as reported by the individual with a neurological disorder. (You aren't really confused, hallucinating, or having trouble remembering things, you only think you are. The real you is somewhere, doing just fine.)
But one thing we haven't talked about much is development which you also referred to. And it's interesting because it highlights not only changes in structure, plasticity, but the influence of learning and experience. Why should the expression of the immaterial mind change so predictably with physiological development?
Quotethe mental is the key component or key 'building block " of the universe , a primary one at thatso what does it predicate (never mind predict) that isn't consistent with the material?
Will it not turn out that ,with the development of science , any progress in the study of the universe will be impossible without that in the study of consciousness ...since both are inseparably linked to each other .
author=Ethos_ link=topic=52526.msg446329#msg446329 date=1418243145]Quote from: DonQuichotte on 10/12/2014 18:43:55Will it not turn out that ,with the development of science , any progress in the study of the universe will be impossible without that in the study of consciousness ...since both are inseparably linked to each other .Are you suggesting that consciousness and the universe can't exist one without the other?
If that is your position, I suggest that you consider the following question:Where was consciousness at the Big Bang event. And we really don't need to go clear back to this time in history. Where was consciousness before the earth came into being? And even later in the historical record, where was consciousness before life first appeared upon this planet?
I suggest that consciousness is dependent upon the universal environment which gave us the material brain which developed over many millions of years. But the material environment was here long before that conscious intelligence developed. So consciousness and the universe were not inseparably linked from the beginning. Consciousness developed later in this story.
If you have evidence to prove otherwise, please present it to us.
In other words : What we take for granted as reality or as the physical universe thus might be just a mental illusion .