Naked Science Forum
General Science => General Science => Topic started by: Simulated on 09/01/2008 00:09:02
-
A roll of supersized Crystal Clear Ducktape (the clear packaging stuff). Do you think a bullet could get threw it? Dad was like this stuff is hard and dense I doubt a bullet could make it threw. Do you think it could?
Thanks Sim
-
Hmmm..how big is the roll !! ??....the right bullet fired from the right gun could probably do it.....depending on the size of roll !!
There are some remarkabe new innovations in bullet and gun technology out there.
-
its at least an inch thick all the way around. I'd go test it in the back yard, but I don't think my parents would approve of that
-
its at least an inch thick all the way around. I'd go test it in the back yard, but I don't think my parents would approve of that
Nope !!..I am sure your folks would disapprove.......except the shop that sells ducktape !!
Well..if it really is just an inch thick then there is most definitely amumnition out there that will go through it.....I have seen bullets shhot through walls.....and over a foot of solid plexiglass !....
-
its at least an inch thick all the way around. I'd go test it in the back yard, but I don't think my parents would approve of that
Nope !!..I am sure your folks would disapprove.......except the shop that sells ducktape !!
Well..if it really is just an inch thick then there is most definitely amumnition out there that will go through it.....I have seen bullets shhot through walls.....and over a foot of solid plexiglass !....
Wow that's purdy crazy..but do you think it would with a little handd gun?
Ugh i've pulled a Karen so many time today it ain't funny lol
-
its at least an inch thick all the way around. I'd go test it in the back yard, but I don't think my parents would approve of that
Nope !!..I am sure your folks would disapprove.......except the shop that sells ducktape !!
Well..if it really is just an inch thick then there is most definitely amumnition out there that will go through it.....I have seen bullets shhot through walls.....and over a foot of solid plexiglass !....
I
Wow that's purdy crazy..but do you think it would with a little handd gun?
Ugh i've pulled a Karen so many time today it ain't funny lol
I doubt it !..I 'm pretty sure a little hand held gun will not do it........but then...I'm not really a ballistics expert...and being a sheep....the best I can do is use my catapult to sling rabbit poo at Daisy the moo moo in the next field !!..she hates that !!
-
Maybe I should go buy a roll and take it out and shoot it sometime. But I could see it. I'd shoot myself and I"m purdy sure that no one would be home haha that woudln't be good
-
its at least an inch thick all the way around. I'd go test it in the back yard, but I don't think my parents would approve of that
Nope !!..I am sure your folks would disapprove.......except the shop that sells duct tape !!
Well..if it really is just an inch thick then there is most definitely ammunition out there that will go through it.....I have seen bullets shot through walls.....and over a foot of solid Plexiglas !....
Wow that's purdy crazy..but do you think it would with a little hand gun?
Ugh I've pulled a Karen so many time today it ain't funny lol
Hee hee hee! LOL... I am a bad influence in here! BOO HOO! LOL!
-
its at least an inch thick all the way around. I'd go test it in the back yard, but I don't think my parents would approve of that
Nope !!..I am sure your folks would disapprove.......except the shop that sells ducktape !!
Well..if it really is just an inch thick then there is most definitely amumnition out there that will go through it.....I have seen bullets shhot through walls.....and over a foot of solid plexiglass !....
I
Wow that's purdy crazy..but do you think it would with a little handd gun?
Ugh i've pulled a Karen so many time today it ain't funny lol
I doubt it !..I 'm pretty sure a little hand held gun will not do it........but then...I'm not really a ballistics expert...and being a sheep....the best I can do is use my catapult to sling rabbit poo at Daisy the moo moo in the next field !!..she hates that !!
Poor whittle Daisy!
-
A roll of supersized Crystal Clear Ducktape (the clear packaging stuff). Do you think a bullet could get threw it? Dad was like this stuff is hard and dense I doubt a bullet could make it threw. Do you think it could?
Thanks Sim
I am no expert,but I think even a handgun which I have shot on many occassions would go through . Depending on distance and things!
-
I asked my brother who is an avid hunter and knows everything (that's what he tells me anyway) and he says NO. He saw an experiment using a jellied body and the bullet didn't go all the way through. He says the bullet mushrooms on impact and loses its energy and can't make it through, but an arrow could.
I liked my sister-in-laws answer better though. She says YES a bullet...any bullet absolutely can go through a roll of any kind of duct tape as long as you shoot it through the hole in the middle. [;D]
-
LOL LOL.. Yes I believe I like her answer too! LOL...
-
I asked my brother who is an avid hunter and knows everything (that's what he tells me anyway) and he says NO. He saw an experiment using a jellied body and the bullet didn't go all the way through. He says the bullet mushrooms on impact and loses its energy and can't make it through, but an arrow could.
Does not this rather depend on whether the bullet is soft nosed or fully jacketed?
-
I do believe that should make a difference although I wish I had thought about that George..LOL!.. I think you may be right!
-
I do believe that should make a difference although I wish I had thought about that George..LOL!.. I think you may be right!
It also depends on the caliber and on the tipe of gun. I think that tape could easily stop a .22 from a target pistol but it wouldn't be enough to stop a 0.308 from a carbine.
-
LOL LOL.. Yes I believe I like her answer too! LOL...
Yes its a funny one. Lol
Thanks for the participation everyone.
-
It also depends on the caliber and on the tipe of gun. I think that tape could easily stop a .22 from a target pistol but it wouldn't be enough to stop a 0.308 from a carbine.
I'd be surprised if calibre was as important as muzzle velocity.
Yes, a high calibre bullet carries more energy (although, to be fair, the energy is proportional to the mass of the bullet, which may not necessarily be directly related to the calibre), but the wider bullet needs to create a wider hole in the target in order to penetrate, and I would have thought that would have offset any advantage in mass.
A high velocity, hardened, .22 bullet would, I would have thought, had a better chance of penetration than a .308 with a similar energy.
-
It also depends on the caliber and on the tipe of gun. I think that tape could easily stop a .22 from a target pistol but it wouldn't be enough to stop a 0.308 from a carbine.
I'd be surprised if calibre was as important as muzzle velocity.
It depends on both, and on bullet's energy, ecc. but small calibers can't have as much energy as higher ones.
-
It also depends on the caliber and on the tipe of gun. I think that tape could easily stop a .22 from a target pistol but it wouldn't be enough to stop a 0.308 from a carbine.
I'd be surprised if calibre was as important as muzzle velocity.
It depends on both, and on bullet's energy, ecc. but small calibers can't have as much energy as higher ones.
Technically, that is not true, although it is commonly true. You are assuming a correlation between calibre and mass, but there can be other factors that effect the mass of the bullet besides its calibre (e.g. it's length, and the material it is made of).
That as an aside, you have not addressed the issue of the bigger hole a larger calibre bullet needs to make, and so consume more energy making it, than would be true of a smaller calibre bullet.
-
It also depends on the caliber and on the tipe of gun. I think that tape could easily stop a .22 from a target pistol but it wouldn't be enough to stop a 0.308 from a carbine.
I'd be surprised if calibre was as important as muzzle velocity.
It depends on both, and on bullet's energy, ecc. but small calibers can't have as much energy as higher ones.
Technically, that is not true, although it is commonly true. You are assuming a correlation between calibre and mass, but there can be other factors that effect the mass of the bullet besides its calibre (e.g. it's length, and the material it is made of).
That as an aside, you have not addressed the issue of the bigger hole a larger calibre bullet needs to make, and so consume more energy making it, than would be true of a smaller calibre bullet.
Easily addressed: to make a hole of radius r and thickness l, you have to remove all the material from a cylinder with the same dimensions; the energy needed is proportional to the external surface of that cylinder, which is proportional to r, while the bullet's mass is proportional to r2 (assuming it has a cylindrical shape too). So a greater bullet of the same shape has a mass at least r2 greater so its energy (if it has the same speed) is such greater.
-
LOL LOL.. Yes I believe I like her answer too! LOL...
Yes its a funny one. Lol
Thanks for the participation everyone.
Your welcome Ryan, great job with your questions!
-
Easily addressed: to make a hole of radius r and thickness l, you have to remove all the material from a cylinder with the same dimensions; the energy needed is proportional to the external surface of that cylinder, which is proportional to r, while the bullet's mass is proportional to r2 (assuming it has a cylindrical shape too). So a greater bullet of the same shape has a mass at least r2 greater so its energy (if it has the same speed) is such greater.
Not convinced about this.
I am not denying that if you are trying to punch a neat round hole through a relatively thin sheet of metal, using a flat nosed punch, and where you can neglect the elasticity of the materials involved, and expect a nice neat round piece of metal to fall away from the hole, then your calculation is no doubt correct.
The reality is that a 1 inch thick wad of tape cannot normally be punched through in that manner. The force needed to punch though in that manner is likely to require a weapon with a recoil and weight that would disqualify it as a hand held weapon. Furthermore, the compressibility and elasticity of the duct tape would almost certainly make it even more difficult to consider it in that way.
Rather, I would imagine that a jacketed bullet, that is likely to be a pointed rather than flat nosed bullet, could concentrate the force at the tip, punch a small hole in the duct tape, and then compress the duct tape sideways. I am doubtful that your simple calculation would work for that.
Bear in mind here that the limiting factor here is the amount of energy a specific type of bullet can carry (you can create bullets with almost arbitrary amounts of energy), but rather with the amount of recoil the shooter can cope with, and the barrel pressures you can sustain within a weapon of a reasonable weight.
-
Easily addressed: to make a hole of radius r and thickness l, you have to remove all the material from a cylinder with the same dimensions; the energy needed is proportional to the external surface of that cylinder, which is proportional to r, while the bullet's mass is proportional to r2 (assuming it has a cylindrical shape too). So a greater bullet of the same shape has a mass at least r2 greater so its energy (if it has the same speed) is such greater.
Not convinced about this.
I am not denying that if you are trying to punch a neat round hole through a relatively thin sheet of metal, using a flat nosed punch, and where you can neglect the elasticity of the materials involved, and expect a nice neat round piece of metal to fall away from the hole, then your calculation is no doubt correct.
The reality is that a 1 inch thick wad of tape cannot normally be punched through in that manner. The force needed to punch though in that manner is likely to require a weapon with a recoil and weight that would disqualify it as a hand held weapon. Furthermore, the compressibility and elasticity of the duct tape would almost certainly make it even more difficult to consider it in that way.
Rather, I would imagine that a jacketed bullet, that is likely to be a pointed rather than flat nosed bullet, could concentrate the force at the tip, punch a small hole in the duct tape, and then compress the duct tape sideways. I am doubtful that your simple calculation would work for that.
Bear in mind here that the limiting factor here is the amount of energy a specific type of bullet can carry (you can create bullets with almost arbitrary amounts of energy), but rather with the amount of recoil the shooter can cope with, and the barrel pressures you can sustain within a weapon of a reasonable weight.
That a hard pointed bullet will go through better than a non-hard pointed it's quite obvious; the problem is to establish what two different calibers bullets with the same characteristics will do. My idea is that a greater caliber will go through more, however I presume we should wait for someone to make the experiment. [:)]
-
Ever the scientist, I have just conducted this experiment this afternoon. Marlin .22 mag bolt action carbine and 1 roll (of 2) clear duck tape I that came from Wal-Mart) hadn't used. I goes through both sides of the tape from 6 yards. The tape was held in place on the target board by 2 pieces of clear tape from the used roll.
I think that a .22 mag hand gun would do the same, and as well as a .22 long rifle cartridge. It went through both sides of the roll of tape and the 1/2 inch particle board it was taped to.
I DID THIS AT THE GUN RANGE, PEOPLE. Don't do it at home.
Stats:
Cartridge Information
Index Number Cartridge Type Weight (grs.) Bullet Style
R220S1 Remington® Express® 50 gr Pointed Soft Point
Velocity (ft/sec)
Cartridge Type Bullet Muzzle
Remington® Express® 50 grs. 3780
Energy (ft-lbs)
Cartridge_Type Bullet Muzzle
Remington® Express® 50 grs. 1586
-
Good Job... I was fixing to snitch my sons gun and my husbands and test them on the tape myself! LOL Great job with the stats~! YAYYYYYYYYYY jim Bob.. I thought it would go through!
-
Ever the scientist, I have just conducted this experiment this afternoon. Marlin .22 mag bolt action carbine and 1 roll (of 2) clear duck tape I that came from Wal-Mart) hadn't used. I goes through both sides of the tape from 6 yards. The tape was held in place on the target board by 2 pieces of clear tape from the used roll.
I think that a .22 mag hand gun would do the same, and as well as a .22 long rifle cartridge. It went through both sides of the roll of tape and the 1/2 inch particle board it was taped to.
I DID THIS AT THE GUN RANGE, PEOPLE. Don't do it at home.
Stats:
Cartridge Information
Index Number Cartridge Type Weight (grs.) Bullet Style
R220S1 Remington® Express® 50 gr Pointed Soft Point
Velocity (ft/sec)
Cartridge Type Bullet Muzzle
Remington® Express® 50 grs. 3780
Energy (ft-lbs)
Cartridge_Type Bullet Muzzle
Remington® Express® 50 grs. 1586
Wow! Amazing! Do you also have higher calibers bolt action rifles to try with?
-
Thanks!!
-
lightarrow, this is just a varmint rifle I bought when I lived outside of town. I would often keep it loaded with .22 long rifle rat shot because of the rattle snakes.
I do not like to kill anything, but if there was a snake in my yard or a raccoon eating out of the dogs food bowls I would need to keep them away or dead or they would hurt the dogs. Very ocassionally I would use the .22 mag for coyotes. Otherwise, not into killing things for sport.
But if I move back I am getting a larger rifle. Feral pigs are becoming a problem around here. I myself could be threatened by them if they were in the yard. The adults have large tusks and are really dangerous.
-
Do ALL the Americans here own guns ?
-
Haha. I'm 14, but yeah my dad has a few shot guns and little hand guns
-
Do ALL the Americans here own guns ?
Being a victim of a shooting I'm not a big fan of guns. I don't personally own any, but my husband & both of my kids do. I don't even know how many we have in the house, but I would say somewhere around a dozen.
-
Do ALL the Americans here own guns ?
We have them also. One hand gun I rarely see and several rifles and shot guns. I couldn't tell you much, one is a 38 one is a 22.. I like to target practice my kids all hunt... even Sarah!
I do not like atomatic weapons or the idea that someone would use one on another person. I do like the idea that it is here for protection though!
-
Forgive me...I am shocked....
-
......as I said please forgive me but how can you not be aware of how many you have and where they are ?
-
Lol. Well. You sort of need them hwere i live neil. out in the middle of no where. ya know?
-
......as I said please forgive me but how can you not be aware of how many you have and where they are ?
I don't know how many because I've lost count. I don't keep track of how many guns my husband purchases or how many my father has given him or my kids.
I am however VERY aware of where they are. They are locked in a heavy duty, fireproof gun safe. Two things I've insisted on is that my kids were taught gun safety and that the guns are kept locked away. They both know how to use them, how to shoot them and that they are not toys, but are deadly weapons.
Having guns in my home is not something I'm happy about, but I did grow up around them as both my dad and my brother are hunters and I married someone that loves to hunt. It's something I've learned to live with as long as safety is the number one priority.
Also, bear in mind that we do live in the country and have run ins with dangerous animals.
We are NOT red neck hillbillys that go around shooting anything that moves.
-
Lol. Well. You sort of need them hwere i live neil. out in the middle of no where. ya know?
...but to have Guns that you don;t know where they are ?....or even how many ?....how would you ever know if you have them all if you collected them up and stored them ?
I am (as Brit) naturally not used to the , what do you call it ?.."Freedom to bear arms "...but .....and I again ask for your understanding....I find the fact that the possibility that you have no inventory and whereabouts of your guns incomprehensible !!.......ps: I still luff ewe guys and hope ewe still luff me !!
-
Thanks Carolyn.....I misunderstood what you meant !
-
I do Know where mine are and how to use them safely if I needed to. I also know how many and where they are kept, which we don't speak of as that would be unsafe. I am amazed that one would loose track also.. We do always check them and they are never loaded! We all shoot at the range..The kids hunt! Years ago we would go to the river bar.. but I was nervous that a miss would go through trees and harm someone so we stopped and use the range. I don't shoot anymore but would if My arm could hold the gun up long enough.. but I cannot anymore!
We all still wuv ewe Sheepy.. no worries!
-
......as I said please forgive me but how can you not be aware of how many you have and where they are ?
I don't know how many because I've lost count. I don't keep track of how many guns my husband purchases or how many my father has given him or my kids.
I am however VERY aware of where they are. They are locked in a heavy duty, fireproof gun safe. Two things I've insisted on is that my kids were taught gun safety and that the guns are kept locked away. They both know how to use them, how to shoot them and that they are not toys, but are deadly weapons.
Having guns in my home is not something I'm happy about, but I did grow up around them as both my dad and my brother are hunters and I married someone that loves to hunt. It's something I've learned to live with as long as safety is the number one priority.
Also, bear in mind that we do live in the country and have run ins with dangerous animals.
We are NOT red neck hillbillys that go around shooting anything that moves.
Its good to have a cabinet like that... and keep them locked up! I am glad you do!
-
Lol. Well. You sort of need them hwere i live neil. out in the middle of no where. ya know?
...but to have Guns that you don;t know where they are ?....or even how many ?....how would you ever know if you have them all if you collected them up and stored them ?
I am (as Brit) naturally not used to the , what do you call it ?.."Freedom to bear arms "...but .....and I again ask for your understanding....I find the fact that the possibility that you have no inventory and whereabouts of your guns incomprehensible !!.......ps: I still luff ewe guys and hope ewe still luff me !!
Well, off the top of my head I could not give an accurate count of the guns in our home. We do have an inventory with serial and model numbers for every one of them in our safety deposit box at the bank.
I imagine the reason I can't give an accurate count is because I have no interest in them whatsoever, it's not like they're shoes or handbags! My husband can list every one of them as well as the when & where they were purchased.
......and of course we still luff ewe!
-
Neil, you need to understand that the bite of a rattle snake can be as deadly as a cobra's if you are a long way from the hospital and by yourself. Even if treated in a timely manner, muscle can be destroyed forever by a bite, gangrene is a common and amputation sometimes the only option. Consider the damage we discussed about our friend earlier by email. That was also a pit viper bite.
And rattle snakes are becoming more poisonous over time - measurable in the last 20 years: more neurotoxins.
-
Thank you all.
You must also please note there is no derogatory inference in my posts.......It is a culture which , thankfully, is alien to me, though there is still gun crime here in the UK......I suppose...I am just not used to discussing munitions with an air of geniality that perhaps I mistakenly seemed to perceive from you guys.
so...still luff me ?....hugs and shmishes all round yes ?.......oooh Jimbob....is that a colt 45 in your pocket or are ewe just pleased to see me ?....*giggles*
-
It's worth mentioning that ' guns' per se has been the subject of a lengthy thread here before !
-
LOL...Neily you crack me up! LOL! Yes indeedy we do... LOL....Hee hee.. watch out JimBob... I think he is feeling amorous now!!!!
Yes it has and I remember that thread!
-
Yep, seems as if guns just gets his male hormones flowing.
-
Hee hee hee.. LOL.. You two make a great team..LOL!
-
I must admit I am a little bit with Neil here. I have once done some clay pigeon shooting, and once handled an unloaded automatic weapon (our host was a licensed gun dealer), but otherwise, I have not had any exposure to real firearms.
I am curious though about the comment that rattle snakes are getting more venomous - what would be the driving force for that?
I rather suspect this thread is slowly going to become ripe for a split.
-
I must admit I am a little bit with Neil here. I have once done some clay pigeon shooting, and once handled an unloaded automatic weapon (our host was a licensed gun dealer), but otherwise, I have not had any exposure to real firearms.
I am curious though about the comment that rattle snakes are getting more venomous - what would be the driving force for that?
I rather suspect this thread is slowly going to become ripe for a split.
High praise indeed for me there ! *winks at George* [;)]
I knew as soon as posted that it could well be a contentious issue...I initially wanted to say that " I don't want to create a debate but...."....and then decided to not say that as I figured the debate/discussion would ensue nevertheless !
-
I must admit I am a little bit with Neil here. I have once done some clay pigeon shooting, and once handled an unloaded automatic weapon (our host was a licensed gun dealer), but otherwise, I have not had any exposure to real firearms.
I am curious though about the comment that rattle snakes are getting more venomous - what would be the driving force for that?
I rather suspect this thread is slowly going to become ripe for a split.
High praise indeed for me there ! *winks at George* [;)]
I knew as soon as posted that it could well be a contentious issue...I initially wanted to say that " I don't want to create a debate but...."....and then decided to not say that as I figured the debate/discussion would ensue nevertheless !
Just for the record, I feel no 'contentiousness' at all. I consider this topic right up there with politics and religion. I'm perfectly content to just agree to disagree.
-
Yay I gots George and LightArrow "arguing", JimBob to prove it! and neil to go crazy! I'd say this thread is one in the record books under "Upsetting the scientist gods"!