Naked Science Forum
Non Life Sciences => Chemistry => Topic started by: simeonie on 14/06/2005 18:27:19
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Hey I wasnt sure what forum to put this topic in so I chose this one [:D]
So does anybody know how to make gun powder, dynamite and/or any other exlplosive. Preferabely ones that expload on impact. Also rough amounts and costs because it is just for practiacal jokes. Thanks
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go on to google and search for jolly rogers cookbook or the anarcists cookbook (apologies for the spelling) anyway that should fit your needs i like the light bulb bomb oh and take my advice when they say use a wooden spoon just use a wooden spoon trust me on this
Giggidy Giggidy Goo
The philosopher Q man
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Be very careful if you confine any explosives you make - someone I knew filled a 40mm bofer's shell with weed killer explosive and managed to get his mate hit by the resulting shrapnel...
Basically explosives are dangerous so think very carefully about what may go wrong, and what will be flying at you when it does!
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ye spose ur right. I probably wont even do it. I might though
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Why not just wait til November & buy some fireworks?
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coz they are REALLY dangerous. I cnt really do that.
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There's funny explosive appeared not long ago: diacetone diperoxide (dipropanone diperoxide). One can easily get it using acetone, sulfuric acid and 38% hydrogen peroxide. Since it is very sensitive to pressure ,fire ,heat and sparks in dry state (in wet state it's rather stable) it can be dangerous. But this compound is very powerful ,demanding little work on synthesis.
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What's the chemistry behind the synthesis ?
Chris
"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
- Groucho Marx
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erm right ok I was thinking more potasium permaganate or howver you spell it. I cant even pronouce it either :) is that explosive at all?
Oh in the new batman film they have this really cool black powder stuff that you throw on the floor and it explodes!!! I dnt know if it is real or not though :(
Oh how do bangers work? You know the little white balls with the stuff inside that you throw on the floor and make a rubbish little bang. Coz You could make a big one of them!
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I still have a nice scar over my eye after making a weedkiller bomb at the age of 14. Don’t think the top off the bottle has come down yet. The explosion was huge, shaking the windows in houses around the explosion. I would not recommend anyone to repeat this experiment as the ferocity of the blast took us all by surprise and I ended up in hospital having stitches. A few millimetres lower and I would have been blinded!
Try baking cakes or gardening instead, much safer for all concerned. Trust me on this one.
Andrew
"The explanation requiring the fewest assumptions is most likely to be correct."
K.I.S. "Keep it simple!"
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a weedkiller bomb? I wnt make one I just curious how to. Although I could make a really small one perhaps
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Weedkiller or fertiliser? I'd heard of fertiliser (nitrate) bombs... or was it the sort of weedkiller that's actually a fertiliser and causes plants to grow too fast and die? Tho' on second thoughts I think that's actually a growth hormone based system so probably not hugely explosive (biology GCSE seems like a long time ago).
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Andrew - Do you mean weedkiller & sugar? My old school got a new high-jump sandpit as a result of 1 of those bombs. That & the incident with the sodium in the swimming pool were the 2 main reasons I was banned from chemistry [V]
We learn from history that we do not learn from history.
(Georg Hegel)
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You can make bombs out a nitrate of your choice (I believe the IRA use ammonium nitrate) as it will decompose to give off oxygen that will react with a fuel you add (often diesel) - you can get this kind of explosive to detonate if you hit it with a very big detonator.
You can also use the weedkiller sodium chlorate which kills things by oxidising them as the oxidiser too, often with sugar as the fuel. The manufacturers have no sense of fun and add a flame retardant to the sodium chlorate so the stuff you buy in the garden centre apparently doesn't work very well...
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so doctorbeaver.... if you mix weed killer and sugar it explodes? And I got a feeling I am the only kid here huh oh well. And G.C.S.E's SUCK!!! I hate them and they can all burn in a big fire.
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Simeonie - As mentioned by Dave, flame retardants are added these days so it doesn't work anymore. I used to make them in the days when the nearest thing we had to terrorists were little old ladies parking on double yellow lines outside the wool shop! [:D]
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And don't get me started on GCSEs! When I was a lad we had real exams, not the namby-pamby little tests you get today. Calculators in maths exams? PAH! We weren't even allowed to use an abacus. And no word processors to use for essays either. We had to catch a goose, pluck its wing-tip feather & use that to write in proper ink we made ourselves from crushed cockroaches.
We had to learn what apostrophes are for as well (which is something people today seem to have not a clue about) & if we put 1 in the wrong place the deputy head would use a broomhandle to thrash us to within an inch of our lives.
We had proper subjects too, like Latin & Greek: none of this girlie Media Studies and the like blah blah rhubarb mumble mumble...
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We're totally destroying this country by creating a quagmire of intense political correctness, telling everyone they are excellent at everything, that no one's ever a failure, there's no such this as an expert - everyone's on an even playing field with each other and their 'lay' perspective is more important than the facts (known as being more horizontal in present PC-speak apparently - to me that suggested something entirely different), grammatical standards have gone out of the window, people write horrors like 'stadiums' and 'forums' (see the bottom right of this screen where it says Snitz for example (!)), and university standards have taken a dramatic nosedive. And if you fail an exam you just keep taking it again until you get a A. When will people realise that life isn't like that ?
I feel really sorry for young people doing GCSEs and A Levels these days, and even more sorry for their teachers, because no one is allowed to learn anything useful anymore. You merely study to pass an exam, not study to broaden your mind. Young people are being forced into a mindset of "what do I need to learn to pass the exam ?". We should be nurturing peoples' interests and enthusiasm for knowledge and scientific understanding about the world around them.
The writing's on the wall. In a few years Oxford and Cambridge will be full of overseas students (as that's the only way they can remain afloat financially), we'll be giving the rest of the world what's made this country great, whilst our own young people will end up sweeping the floors because they have received a rubbish education.
The working and living environment we are creating in this country is totally destructive and obstructive to progress. Unless the loony leftie PC brigade get shot soon, and people start thinking sensibly again, we may as well give up now and hand our assets to China !
"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
- Groucho Marx
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Nope, if you mix sodium chlorate with sugar it burn intensely and does not explode, even prior to the introduction of the inhibitor. It needs some modification before it becomes an explosive, and I will not contribute towards you losing a limb or possibly your life further than this. I have used this combination of sugar and sodium chlorate for harvesting wasp grubs for fishing by adding the mixture to a hive, igniting it and placing a turf over it, this kills all the wasps but leaves the grubs alive, unlike the cymag poison which is harmful to both the grubs and the fish that eat them.
"The explanation requiring the fewest assumptions is most likely to be correct."
K.I.S. "Keep it simple!"
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Chris, and Dr Beaver, I think you both need to listen to the sunscreen track by Bas luhrmann, to refresh your memory about the education we received, though I guess your education was more comprehensive than my own comprehensive education in the Blackcountry. But any education pales into insignificance when you go out into the real world, and we all have to either adapt or give up. And so will future generations that follow us, but their playing field is one of high technology and demands a new breed of educated people that are familiar with word processors, computers, software and hardware alike.
My main problem with the technology boom is that it does not really contribute to anything in a production / manufacturing sense. I.E. We still need food, fuel, manufactured goods, tools, vehicles and a healthy planet. Information technology is ok to let everyone know what is needed and where it is needed but it does not provide us with the materials to repair the breach in the walls. I can see a massive shortage of people with a common sense hands on experience in industrial processes. In fact, many of the tradesmen refuse to educate the younger generations now and are slipping away in their thousands, leaving a huge void once their skills are taken to grave, and as Chris stated, this hole will certainly be filled by China and other Eastern countries, eager to supply the developed countries who are living in the I.T. Bubble waiting for a pin to burst it.
Anyway, the problem is certainly not irreversible and other generations will indeed have to be programmed differently to fill these gaps in supply and demand.
London is a classic example of this. Sitting smug thinking it can run the rest of the world without producing diddly squat. Well guess what London, your days are already numbered and boy, does London have a rude awakening coming when it is realised that life can carry on contently without its interference! Already we are seeing a mass exodus of skills oozing from every orifice of “Our Once Great Britain”, spilling out on many foreign shores where eking out a comfortable existence affords greater odds than dodging taxes, traffic wardens and speed cameras.
Sorry for the rant, but you touched a nerve
Andrew
"The explanation requiring the fewest assumptions is most likely to be correct."
K.I.S. "Keep it simple!"
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quote:
But any education pales into insignificance when you go out into the real world, and we all have to either adapt or give up
Very true. That's 1 of the problems I have with the fanaticism for youth. I used to work as a consultant/analyst for a maintenence management software company. More often than not, companies we went to had a young graduate in charge of the dept & men of experience actually doing the work. The youngsters could read the machine performance printouts but the maintenance engineers could just look at or listen to a machine & tell you what was wrong without thousands of pounds worth of sensors & monitors. Yet these are exactly the people who have gradually been phased out. It's criminal!
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This kinda of thing really annoys me you know. I am very young and I hear older people saying that educaion in deteriating quickly but I really think that that is a load of poop.
If that is true.... how come technolagy is getting better. Bigger constructions are being made all the time and things are just getting better.
I know there are a lot of "slackers" and stuff who will arrive no where in life but there always has been.
But if wot you lot are saying is true then technolagy and pretty much everything will be rubbish when this generation grows up.
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not necessarily as technology is cumulative so it may not be improving as fast as it could be. Also a lot of technological development is global, so the Chinese or Indian education systems are more important...
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Simeonie, don't take it the wrong way. No one is attempting to belittle your efforts, but what we are saying is that through no fault of your own your are being educated badly. The mindsets that young people develop today are not what they were about 20 years ago. And to refer back to your point about things just getting better - we're currently surfing on the success of those people from 20 years or more back down the line. We are not, however, investing in our future so many of the people being educated in today's world are not reaching their full potential.
The government, for instance, thinks its a good idea to mix naughty kids in with a class of well behaved kids. This will set an example to the bad kids, they say. Actually what it does is disrupt the whole class so that the teacher can't do his or her job very effectively, and the standard goes down. There is enormous investment in people who are underachievers for one reason or another, but no / little parallel investment in those who are also 'special needs' for the opposite reason - they are intelligent.
We should be stretching people, not subjecting them to stupid exams for which we've had to invent new top grades because everyone was getting an A ! THat's ridiculous and argues that the exam is too easy. I don't believe that teachers, overnight almost, became so good at teaching GSCE that standards suddenly rocketed and the traditional 10-15% of people who got As previously, became 20-30%.
It's an insult to people who do well, because it devalues their achievement, and it's destructive to people that are less able because it ill prepares them for life. You cannot deny that spelling and grammar have gone completely down the tubes. Most people are terrible at mental arithmetic too.
I'm not saying that in this day and age times tables are the be-all and end-all, but what they do is to mould the developing brain into a receptive organ with good memory skills. The instant gratification, let's quickly look it up on the web without actually learning anything, culture does not do that. It just makes people lazy, error-prone, and prone to exploitation by people that can do their sums !
Politicians need to wake up and stop eroding standards with this ridiculous league-table driven pc-obsessed world they're creating, and start teaching young people properly again.
Chris
"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
- Groucho Marx
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Chris - I couldn't agree more. I could cry at some of the spelling and grammar I see from A level & uni students these days. Most unis & colleges now run remedial courses in basic English & maths because the kids didn't learn them properly at school.
I also don't wish to demean anyone, the point I was trying to make is that education & experience must go hand-in-glove. What sounds like a brilliant idea in class or on paper may not be so good in the real world. You only have to look at teaching methods to that in action. As Chris said, "1 size fits all" education doesn't work despite what the so-called experts may have been saying for the past 30 years. A return to streaming with extra help for those who struggle is the answer. Disruptive pupils should be kept away from those who wish to learn or the whole class will suffer.
Work experience for students is a good idea but it has to be implemented properly. It's no good getting an A level business studies student filling envelopes! I had a big row with the chairman of a company I used to work for. We took on a young lad for work experience who had come top on his IT class. Our chairman set him to work copying disks. I thought that was a total waste of his talents and an insult to his intelligence.
Hang on... what the hell has this got to do with gun powder! [?]
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Sounds pretty explosive to me Doc
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ye what has this got to do with gun powder? But is is kinda important.
Chris what you said was a rather large sweeping statement. First of all I used to go to a BIG state school but my parent wanted me to move because of the bad education there and YES it wasn't good because the classes were WAY to big. The school I am at now which is an 'independant' school I really feel stretched at. We are learning the things we need to know to pass our G.C.S.E's and more.
So in some schools the education is not good infact very bad but in others it is very good.
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When I was at primary school there were 36 kids in my class & over half went on to grammar schools. I was fortunate enough to get into a county grammar school & there were probably 30+ in each of my classes there until I reached the 6th form. We had the highest percentage of Oxbridge candidates of any state school in London & 1 of the highest in the whole country.
Class size is not the issue. What is important is that lessons are free from disruptive behaviour & that teachers know how to teach properly. Luckily I finished my school education before "trendy" teaching methods became the norm.
To my mind the biggest indictment of education over recent years is the number of unis & colleges who need to teach their students basic English & maths. How can anyone have attained university-entrance qualifications without being able to read properly or do simple arithmetic!? How could they study for A levels without the ability to read text books properly? Or what about writing essays? I believe the evidence speaks for itself that standards must have dropped, or people without those basic skills would not have the qualifications to get to university.
And on the subject of basic skills - Synthetic Phonics. What an amazingly innovative idea that is. Who would ever have guessed that children who learn the sounds of letters would be able to read better than those who don't? My primary school must have been way ahead of its time because that's how we were taught in the 50s!
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Funny, that’s exactly how we were taught, and how we taught our own children, and presumably how children have been taught for centuries. How come they stopped it and rediscovered it?
My school was very good at teaching us how to use our hands in order to fill the many jobs in industry in the huge manufacturing area of the West Midlands.
I always remember being asked “What do you want to be when you leave school”? I remember answering, as many others did, saying I would like to be a doctor or a veterinarian, or a reporter, only to be asked again, but with a definite emphasis on manual work, followed by something along the lines of, that’s all well and good but realistically, what would you like to do? Brick laying, mechanic, chippy, plasterer, welder, tool setter? Adding learning a trade is the way forward for you, you will never be short of work once you have a trade under your belt. It’s all well and good going labouring on the building sites initially earning good wages, but when you have learned your trade, then you will earn more than the labourers on the building sites.
The teachers and the career advisors lied through their teeth, encouraging many pupils to ditch their dreams and accept their fate in industry, which thanks to Margaret Thatcher and co, no longer exists in the U.K. having witnessed 7 thousand people a week being dumped in the unemployment cues as more and more factories went to the wall. When I left school, it was possible to walk out of one job and into another on the same day. This was the norm in those days!
I remember driving through Sheffield after the Thatcher fallout and crying with tears falling off my cheeks as I stared at the desolation in horror and disbelief. I cried because I had seen the faces of the devastated people in the West Midlands and understood completely what was happening in Sheffield and other Northern towns and cities alike. We were betrayed by the iron bitch, who was involved in the sales of arms to countries we later went to war against. Now Sheffield boasts of a huge shopping mal, which stands on the same foundations of factories that provided sustenance for tens of thousands of families. How can a shopping mal replace those lost jobs?
I, and many more people like me will never forget and never forgive these low life political scumbags for what they have done to our once great country. All that was needed was some assistance to afford companies time to change over to high technology and modern processes, as was definitely the case in other countries. But no, they could not see their hands in front of their faces and decided to turn a blind eye to the plight of so many brilliantly skilled people. I would rather gnaw my own leg off than vote conservative and I tell them exactly that each time they have the audacity to knock on my door!
But what goes around eventually comes around, and there lies the now obvious shortfalls in a high-tech education designed for a manufacturing industry that no longer can exist on our shores due to greedy life sucking politics. After reading this you might think that I would be a Labour supporter and you would be wrong. They are no better than the Tories and are as self serving as any other politician. How we move on from here, I wish I had some answers, I feel we have already gone past the point of no return and sinking too far down in the quick-sands of idio-cratic nonsense.
The energy requirements and tax burdens imposed by these politician parasites prohibits any chance of the re-emergence of manufacturing in the U.K. We are doomed to become the slaves as The Eastern Countries and Africa release their shackles and fulfil the roll of supply and demand that we once did so well.
One could argue, that the environment has improved because there is less pollution due to the absence of heavy industrial processes, but this would not be the case as the problem with pollution remains the same, just the location of the problem is moved.
One example of pollution shift, is the packaging of food by the supermarkets. What was wrong with the paper bag, the glass milk bottle, and news paper wrapped around our fish n chips? Why do we need plastic boxes, bags, cups, milk bottles, fast food wrappings, fizzy drinks bottles. The World has gone bonkers!
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quote:
Originally posted by DoctorBeaver
Synthetic Phonics. What an amazingly innovative idea that is. Who would ever have guessed that children who learn the sounds of letters would be able to read better than those who don't? My primary school must have been way ahead of its time because that's how we were taught in the 50s!
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ok this is really going off topic. Although yes you are right in some respects but I bet a lot of kids now a days have much vaster knowledge than a lot of kids from "your day". There are a lot more "slow" people though.
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I think that you're right, there's a lot more for people to know these days compared with 50 years ago. Just take a look at medicine - hospitals once had medics and surgeons, now they have about 30 different medical sub-specialties and surgeons who only operate on aortic aneurysms.
But I doubt that a patient would be entirely enamoured to be given the wrong dose of a drug by any of these doctors because they couldn't add up !
I also sympathise with Simeonie because you're part of that generation that is 'got at' by your predecessors who 'had it much worse'. In medicine I'm the same. I keep hearing from seniors who worked 500 hour-long days, were on call 36 hours a day, never set foot outside the hospital for 3 weeks at a time etc etc. But the fact is, that they genuinely did learn a lot. Junior doctors these days are very ill-prepared for their jobs by medical schools. I should know, I am one. It's just the same with A levels and university entrance. Just as Eth says above, universities are now running remedial classes to teach people adding up so that they can cope with the course. I'm at a loss to explain why this should be necessary, unless standards have dropped.
By the way, Simeonie - and you have my permission to shoot me for this - but "independent" is spelled with an e, and you missed an 'o' off 'too' [;)]
"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
- Groucho Marx
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Andrew - I too am often aghast at the amount of packaging on some goods (although I have to say I'm rather pleased chips are no longer served in newspaper as if I was unfortunate enough as to have a picture of Tony Blair's smug grin on the page it would probably put me off my food!). I recently bought a new computer system with a flat screen. The packaging with the screen was unbelievable. The screen stands 15" tall & the base is only 10" in diameter: so why is the box large enough to hold a small family car? I can understand the necessity for all the polysterene mouldings and why the screen itself was in an anti-static bag. But was there any need to not only put all the cables in separate plastic bags (3 cables, 3 bags) but also to wrap the connectors on the cables in plastic secured with tape? The instruction manual & warranty were in separate plastic bags as was a wad of advertising literature from the manufacturer. Also, what is the point of the piece of cardboard slipped over the pins on the mains plug? And why the plastic caps on the pins?
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I think that you're right, there's a lot more for people to know these days compared with 50 years ago. Just take a look at medicine - hospitals once had medics and surgeons, now they have about 30 different medical sub-specialties and surgeons who only operate on aortic aneurysms.
Chris - that poses an interesting dichotomy... would you rather be operated on by an expert in the field or by someone who is less skilled in it but has a wider range of knowledge & experience who could rectify any other problems that may arise or become apparent during surgery? With finite funds available it is unfeasible to have experts in all fields standing-by just in case.
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By the way, Simeonie - and you have my permission to shoot me for this - but "independent" is spelled with an e, and you missed an 'o' off 'too'
Heh, you're like me. Every time I see a spelling or grammatical error I want to correct it. I think it must be genetic with people who are involved with teaching! However, although grammatical and lexical mistakes are often due to laziness, much of the time it is a result of how the person was taught.
(Incidentally, Chris, I can't let you get away with these... "specialties"? Is that a genuine mistake or have you been reading too many American books? Also, you used apostrophes instead of quote marks, and the passive form of "spelled" is "spelt" - "spelled" is the past participle [:D] )
I remember when my step-daughter was about 8 or 9 years old I read a story she had written in class. The teacher had given her a very good mark even though it was peppered with basic grammatical & spelling errors. At the next open day I queried this with the teacher concerned who replied with words to the effect of, "Don't worry, that'll be sorted out sometime in the future". The school was more concerned merely that she express herself than that she express herself correctly. By the time my step-daughter was 12 she still had had no formal teaching in grammar at school: everything she knew had been learned at home.
There are some modern teaching methods of which I whole-heartedly approve. For instance in history - I'm all in favour of trying to really understand how people lived rather than just learning dates of important events. That should give us much greater insight into problems still encountered in certain parts of the world. However, unfortunately I think my profile signature says it all.
We learn from history that we do not learn from history.
(Georg Hegel)
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Having seen electronic manufacturing from the inside, I can explain some of the packaging issues.
Nobody makes the entire product. Every company is a specialist. The monitor screen was made by a company specializing in glass objects and mounted into its plastic case by another company which packages the assembly in foam and plastic. The cables are made hundreds of miles away and individually packaged in cellophane bags. Everything is shipped to a consolidation point where each bit is put together into one box and loaded onto the delivery truck.
Nobody is totally responsible for anything anymore. We divide and conquer (and assure that any claim will be fought by legions of lawyers).
R A Beldin,
Improbable Statistician
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He He, actually, I can justify at least 2 of the mistakes.
Medical specialties are referred to as such across the medical world, including by the British Medical Association :
http://www.bma.org.uk/ap.nsf/Content/BecomingDoctorSpecialties
My posts lack quotes (and used aspostrophe's (that one's intentional [;)]) because my 2 key - bearing the quotes - has stopped working (probably dirty underneath). I can generate 2s from the numeric pad, but not the quotes - so I've been resorting to ' instead
Spelled / Spelt - was a cock up !
Chris
"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
- Groucho Marx
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Ye when I am typing I am always doin it really fast and quite often make mistakes. I usually like to correct mistakes.
You know wot anoys me! When someone writes one of the HUGE DOCK OFF messages that take like a year to read through *cough cough!!! Doctor Beaver!!!! Cough cough!!!!!*
Nah jokin
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Oh and by the way when you got the big packaging for the screen.... I can understand that because they have to take every precausion to make sure it doesnt brake. Coz if it did then it would cause a lot of hastle for the people who make it.
And no one even dare to correct any spellings coz I know there are probably mistakes I am just typing ded fast and careleslly
P.S
Muffins
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Being a lazy sort, I didn't concoct any explosives as a kid. I just cut into my dad's shotgun shells and took out the black powder. It made a good propellant for a child's tenpin shot from a metal pipe. Of course, in ChemClub, we made our own nitrocellulose propelled rockets and sent them zipping across the room on a guide wire. I remember the bomb we made from left over black powder wrapped in newspaper. It lifted the lid off a 50 gallon trash barrel about 30 ft!
R A Beldin,
Improbable Statistician
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quote:
Ye when I am typing I am always doin it really fast
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You know wot anoys me
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precausion to make sure it doesnt brake. Coz if it did then it would cause a lot of hastle for the people who make it.
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And no one even dare to correct any spellings coz I know there are probably mistakes I am just typing ded fast and careleslly
I dare, I dare! heh - Ye, doin, annoys, precausion, ded, careleslly
*runs away in case you're bigger than me* [;)]
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gunpowder:-
75 per cent potassium nitrate (salt peter)
15 per cent charcoal >>> (the 5% was a typo)
10 per cent sulphur
u can buy expensive, high quality chemicals that r kind of hard to find here :-
http://www.kno3.com/
gud if your mesin around with the cookbook
sir loony
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that is the most helpful thing anyone as said and thanks.
:( I wish however that you could make it with just stuff you have round the house
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If you want to make those little banger things you throw on the ground it is very simple. You need iodine crystals (NOT potassium permanganate) and ammonia.
Dissolve the crystals in the ammonia until you cannot get anymore to dissolve then spread the misture out on a paper towel and let it dry for 24 hours. You will be left with crystals which when wrapped in toilet tissue or similar will explode upon impact.
Now the hard bit......... finding iodine crystals as I cannot seem to by them.
Something really cool you can make with potassium permanganate - mis potassium permanganate with glycerin (both can be bought in boots or a local pharmacy for a couple of quid max), apply a little friction and then stand well back. I set fire to my living room doing this and still have the holes in the carpet. It makes a hell of a lot of smoke so STAND BACK AND ONLY DO IT IN A VENTILATED AREA.
Explosives are easy to make but detonating them is the hard bit. I have lots of books on the subject. Actually synthesising explosives is easy, getting hold of the chemicals is VERY hard. Very hard to detonate (how does one make a detonator???)
Live long and Love life
Kevin Fisher
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to detonate powders i wud use a Magnesium Ribbon
but if your detonating something like semtex, a eletric ignitor can be used :-
u can buy them from here (http://www.hobbytron.com/Estes-Model-Rocket-Igniters-(6).html)
just connect them to a 6v to 12v supply add a switch or something to it.
sir loony
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quote:
Originally posted by weebrain
to detonate powders i wud use a Magnesium Ribbon
but if your detonating something like semtex, a eletric ignitor can be used :-
u can buy them from here (http://www.hobbytron.com/Estes-Model-Rocket-Igniters-(6).html)
just connect them to a 6v to 12v supply add a switch or something to it.
sir loony
Thanks for your advice on how to detonate Semtex !
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Finstagiber.net%2Fsmiliesdotcom%2Fcontrib%2Ficw%2F003.gif&hash=f326f525e3f6c60d4ea3ecbb24d1df2a)Men are the same as women.... just inside out !!(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Finstagiber.net%2Fsmiliesdotcom%2Fcontrib%2Ficw%2F003.gif&hash=f326f525e3f6c60d4ea3ecbb24d1df2a)
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Originally posted by weebrain
gunpowder:-
75 per cent potassium nitrate (salt peter)
5 per cent charcoal
10 per cent sulphur
There are quite a few sources of saltpeter including bat dung, animal and human urine, and tobacco stems.
The old saying "keep your gunpowder dry" was a comment on the fact that saltpeter will dissolve in water. Get your gunpowder wet, and when it drys, most of the saltpeter is gone, and the powder won't work.
Grind the charcoal and sulfur seperatly, and mix these two dry. Dissolve the saltpeter in water and mix wet with the charcoal and sulphur. Spread the paste out on a flat drying surface about 1/2 to one cm thin. When dry, crumble with your hands. Do not crush with a hard instrument unless I have previously purchased an insurance policy on your life[:D]
David
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A few observations:
1) The unnamed individual who re-hijacked this thread back onto the topic of explosives is a spoilsport.
2) Is it just me, or does that gunpowder recipe add up to 90%?
In all seriousness:
3) I have used similar proportions (although mine added up to 100%) with adequate results.
4) Particle size has a very large effect in this mixture. I used to grind the components together with a mortar & pestle... until I discovered that even gentle grinding can set the stuff off when it is a fine powder. I have a good-sized scar on my right hand from the very painful burn that resulted. Igniting gunpowder is no problem.
5) It burns very intensely, but it doesn't go bang unless it is enclosed in a container. The smoke created contains a lot of sulfur dioxide, which is very nasty to breathe, as it dissolves in the moisture on the delicate membranes of your respiratory tract and there combines with the water to form sulfurous acid. You can feel the effects of even a mild SO2 exposure for days.
6) It's actually very easy to get ahold of these chemicals... if you're a chemistry teacher. I imagine that individual purchasers would be checked up on.
In conclusion -
7) Be very careful with this stuff. Even experienced people hurt themselves regularly. I saw a documentary about fireworks where they interviewed people who have spent whole careers assembling the big fireworks displays that cities put on. All the people in the video were missing a finger or two and at least one of them had big ugly scars.
8) Here's a relatively safe - and very satisfying - explosion that's easy to make. You absolutely do need an explosion shield, like a thick piece of plexiglas, though. Take an empty 2-litre bottle, fill it 1/3 full of water, add a bunch of dry ice (solid CO2), screw the cap on tightly and put the thing behind the shield. You have to use quite a lot of dry ice - a few hundred grams at least. The bottle swells ominously for a good minute or two, building palpable suspense. When it finally blows, the explosion is very impressive. A nice, deep, resonant BOOM! The shockwave sets off car alarms. I don't recommend this in the UK right now, in light of recent events. The police will almost certainly treat you very unkindly. However, if you have an adequate shield, this explosion can be carried out very safely. Great for teaching about gas laws.
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The other 10% is the love of an arsnist
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Time is like a knife..... slowly and relentlesly.... cuts the cored of life.
-__- my website!!!!
http://www.simeonie.co.uk
has forums too!
Think about it! lolz
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quote:
by simeonie:- So does anybody know how to make gun powder, dynamite and/or any other exlplosive. Preferabely ones that expload on impact
We used to make nitrogen triiodide at school, explodes on impact or even spontaneously when dry.
Our best trick was to scatter the crystals over the floor so that it popped and crackled when people walked on it. Made a hell of a mess of the floor though, one of the decomposition products is iodine!
http://www.armory.com/~spcecdt/pyrotech/ni3_dir.html for the recipe
CAUTION - as I said, it does have a habit of exploding spontaneously when dry, the best bet is to make and use it in situ and confine yourself to a few milligrams [:)]
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thanks simmer for that :D
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Time is like a knife..... slowly and relentlesly.... cuts the cored of life.
-__- my website!!!!
http://www.simeonie.co.uk
has forums too!
Think about it! lolz
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detonators - i have a way, involving household objects.
get a light bulb, break the glass carefully but not the filament, place the filament in your stuff to be detonated (liquid or powder may be best)
you may go through several light bulbs trying this.
anyway, then connect it up to a battery WITH a swtich (otherwise ur in trouble)
press switch once you are a safe distance away
you can also use alarm clocks to make timed explosions, etc etc, basically supply power to the bulb filament.
i havent tried this, ive not had a chance
where is it best to get saltpeter from, can i get it without buying it from household objects?
"Turkeys killed my family" - Chip, 02/09/2005, 12:49
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can any one tell me where i can get a copy of the anarcist or jolly rodgers cook book
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hello and welcome, try the link below
http://www.members.lycos.nl/pyrocorp/pyrocorp_online/anar666.htm
It seems very interesting i may have to give it a read myself[:)]
ps.
How about that for service 8 minutes from question to reply. Thankfully not everything in my life happens or comes so quick
Michael (https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi11.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa186%2Fukmicky%2Frofl.gif&hash=481319b762ee9d57cda15e90d2e83ee6)
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gunpowder:
gunpowder has the following composition.
75KNO3 15C 10S
gunpowder is made by first milling the materials together in a ball mill. Once milled for at least 6 hours the powder in the mill is now called meal powder (not yet gunpowder) to make the meal powder into gunpowder a mixture of water and spirits is applied.the meal is then pressed in a press and a desired density of 1.7gcc-1 should be reached. the gunpowder block is then smashed into grains. This is now gunpowder (or black powder as it should be called due to the fact that it has been replaced as a gun propellant by nitrocellulose). there are many factors that affect the performance of gunpowder. The type of charcoal its made from is the main factor. gunpowder made from beech would burn very slowly indeed, while gunpowder made from willow charcoal would burn extremely fast (the brun speed could vary by as much as 0.9ms-1)
the different types of gunpowder are used in different applications.
for example meal powder is used in stars, fountains and rockets. while gunpowder is used to lift shells,for break charges and for salutes.
gunpowder is a low explosive. This is because it deflagrates subsonicly (slower than the speed of sound) the burning of gunpowder is caused by the flamefront travelling throught through the grain.
in a high explosive the substance is detonated. This is when a substance burns supersonicly.
the detonation is caused by the shockwave from the supersonic flamefront. unlike in low explosives the decomposition/burining is continiued by the shockwave. thus high explosives tend to be more powerfull than low explosives
if you are looking for something to do practical jokes with then gunpowder is not the best as it requires a lot of apparatus and a long time to make.Although it is one of the, if not THE cheapest low explosive.
if you are looking for some practical jokes (by that i assume you mean firecrackers etc?) then you should make smoke bombs (potassium nitrate and icing sugar) or you can make flash powder (something like KClO4/Al)
Steve Vai there are a lot of other ways to make electric matches (these are not detonators as you said, detonators are primary explosives used to intiate or detonate an explosive that is not sensitive enough to be initiated by a low explosive/fuse).
you can use nichrome wire instead of a filament from a bulb. its also a lot cheaper and easier to get. As for the potassium nitrate, this place sells it for £10 for 2kgs, although i dont know why you need it.
www.gardendirect.co.uk
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quote:
CAUTION - as I said, it does have a habit of exploding spontaneously when dry, the best bet is to make and use it in situ and confine yourself to a few milligrams [:)]
i dont know what kind of powerful sunstance you was on when you wrote that but i dont think you should use it again. a few milligrams is (considering "few" means no more than 5) <5x10-3grams you wouldnt even have scales accurate enough to weigh it out and even when you lit it it wouldnt even have enough mass to self confine.
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pyro im surprised you havent already gotten on to this but meh, before ive seen the 'jolly rodger cookbook' mentioned *rolls eyes* oooook lets start here > there is no point in making somthing you have not searched in triplicate atleast, looking at 3 synthesis/ methods of production and comparing you will soon see the dangerous one, that is if you havent looked at the same crap 3 times.. that just makes you stupid. e.g comparing the : anarchist hand book *shakes head at the tragic missuse of the good anarchist name* the terrorist hand book and the jolly rodger cook book. All 3 are variations on the last with added crap and buzz words like LoLZ H4X etc generally bull**** for 14 year olds who couldnt find their asses with both hands. Somthing i have recently been thinking about is the difference in concentrations of chemicals in differnt charcoals, this would effect the overall ratios of the black powder this could be a possible reason for why people say willow charcoal is best. Generally BP is not Very friction sensative, comerical versions are dusted with graphite this offers some opertunitys for making bridgeless igiters as graphite conducts electrcity as it heats it will ignite the BP Graphite doesnt seem to burn it just gets red hot i havent tested it in some thermite.. yet but it looks to excede 1000 degrees before anything happens to it and so it is possibly re-usable. (off on a tangent once again)
Is that the mouthwash in your eyes?
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I don't mean to rant here but,
Some kinda crazy cracke wuz da head of the clique mob grill back in da day. I tell ya, these sobs were serious about dey cheese and of coure there clique mob grills.
Oh mans was my pa mad when he seens me with that lamp in that one room. Sometimes i used to sits in dat room with the lamp eating cheese for days. If you love freedom- you love cheese and lamps.
Beta is the best kind of testing. But da cheese don't like the beta. I don't appreciate people being all "I don't like the way you handled your cheese back there. I kinda disagree wit dem but i thought alot about it.
What do YOU think?!
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why would i mention the anarchist cookbook?. Like you said its for muppets who want to get cheap thrills. the reason willow charcol is the best is something to do with the amount of impurities it has (hydrocarbons). it has the most and so makes the bp burn the fastest. pure carbon is crap for bp because its the hydrocarbon impurities that make the bp burn fast.
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The reason I would have asumed you would have said about the Anarchist cookbook is because you apear to take your pyro seriously and such handbooks give a bad rap to it, when noobs like crazy117 burns his face off grinding armstrongs mix in a pestle and mortar etc you get the Gist of what I meant *the handbook was mentioned earier in the thread take a look dont just go to the last post*
Is that the mouthwash in your eyes?
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i think it was me that first mentioned the jolly rogers cookbook and ive had great sucess using it some chemistry books and common sense so there
Giggidy Giggidy Goo
The philosopher Q man
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sucess using it AND CHEMISTRY BOOKS, we are talking simply about the book not cross referencing not researching not comparison, im talking about the kid who finds it and suddenly thinks KEWL i am clearly not talking about sumone who has common sense for example cramming match heads into a tennis ball i suuuuure that will be in many a chemistry book, also when you start to fill the ball there is certainly going to be friction as you cram the last in and probibly cause premature ignition. I simply cant see how anyone could claim 'Great Sucess' in using the jolly rodger cookbook, or even any form of sucess due to 1) the sheer inacuracy, 2) the many versions that have been altered 3) the out of date Phreaking manuals that wouldnt work on space invaders, how you claim great sucess is laughable
Is that the mouthwash in your eyes?
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ah, thanks for the correction pyromaster, i assumed they meant things like what i described.
they put all of this fire retardant stuff in weedkillers nowadays, which kinda takes the fun out of it but i guess is necessary, but i was wondering, how readily do chlorate ions decompose? i mean if i dissolved sodium chlorate in water and filtered out fire retardant stuff (assuming it will be insoluble) then will i end up with saltwater and oxygen when i try to evapourate off the water?
btw, a friend of mine tried the match heads thing into a tennis ball, i wouldnt reccomend it, its relatively unpredictable as to when it will go off if you bounce it, and its not that spectacular anyway
and does anyone know where its possible to get hold of iodine in the UK?
"Turkeys killed my family" - Chip, 02/09/2005, 12:49
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As someone mentioned the site earlier...
http://www.kno3.com/product.asp?itemid=16&catid=34
but i doubt you'd want to spend that much - nor do i.
Please let us know if anyone finds it cheaper/smaller batches..
Thanx
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hey,
i was wondering whether u know how to produce an ammonium phosphate or ammonium nitrate(ANFOS) explosive,[8)]
greatly appreciated
cmdr_keen[8]
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Dont buy from kno3.com, They are con people...
A couple of good sites are - http://www.inoxia.co.uk/ and http://www.thegreenman.me.uk/
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I know some...(TNT...)
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TNT(tree nitro toluol)...: phenol with nitric acid: 1 to 3
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also TNG: tree nitro gliceryn: gliceryn with nitric acid also 1 to 3
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I did a degree in writing for performance, and I had to study basic English while at uni. I managed to pass my GCSE's and A levels and only when at uni did i need to learn what a verb, adverb, adjective and pronoun etc. actualy were. Really.
I may be an exceptional case, everyone who has ever taught me with regards to English has always labelled me 'gifted' and it has to be aknowledged that I see things differently to everyone else with regards to language. I just do, and it is this unusual approach that managed to get me so far. I still feel cheated that I wasn't given the tools for my future trade when I spent so much time devouring the stuff in my formal compulsory education.
For an example, we studied Charlotte Bronte's Jane Eyre and Harper Lee's To KIll a Mockingbird for GCSE English Literature, and due to its girly nature I outright refused to read Jane Eyre (There were only two lads in the class of 32, and our female teacher had put it to the vote. We were duly outvoted).
Typically it was the one that came up on the exam. No problem, George Orwell's Animal Farm was the subject of the question on the next page, I had read this aged 12 and I got myself a B by answering the questions from memory.
This reflects badly on the whole educational establishment, if we are to be honest.
At school they gave me a test and rated me an IQ of 155. They put me in the 4th percentile for English language skills.
I was in the bottom set for Mathematics because, quite simply, the teacher and I just hated one another. He taught me for 4 years too, in a secondary school of with 8 forms per year averaging 36 students per form. What are the chances? I had my own desk in the corridor outside the classroom, the Headnaster used to visit me once a week at my desk and I essentially taught myself maths from school textbooks.
I got a C in my Maths GCSE.
The point made much earlier is ridiculously apt:
'There is enormous investment in people who are underachievers for one reason or another, but no / little parallel investment in those who are also 'special needs' for the opposite reason - they are intelligent.'
Chris, I couldn't agree more.
I was a pretty bad kid at school. But then I had little choice, I just couldn't deal with the constant boredom.
At 22 years of age I had to learn what an adjective was.
I think we should start a politics thread. I really do believe it is a science, and I've seen it creeping across over 50% of the posts I've read so far...
I think I'll suggest it.
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it, misdiagnosing it and then misapplying the wrong remedies- Groucho Marx.
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Aah, now, I'm new to the forum and still adjusting to the 'more than one page' situation.
I guess you could consider the post re-hijacked,
I'd apologise, but I'm really not sorry :)
We need a politics post, eh.