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Some proof of how Darwin thought.
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dusky.sk%2Fpics%2Ffrommail%2Fimage001.gif&hash=4c3b39d590aca7bec6d1fbb22ec3883e)
*Ouch*
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And now, welcome to "Spot my bunny"
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(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dusky.sk%2Fpics%2Ffrommail%2Fstereo%2Fbunny2.jpg&hash=156864a5469344328faea36f6c47d59a)
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You can use <Cntrl +> to enlarge the image in Firefox. (or use 'view' in IExplorer)
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And now, by common request..
(Ah, that would be Karen and Make it Lady:)
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dusky.sk%2Fpics%2Ffrommail%2Fzeny1.jpg&hash=8b083ce8de8c84a07bf043249ceac46c)
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An elegant solution to that most common of problems, as a lady sits down to her personal computer, works also with laptops, IPhone and GPS..
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And now, by common request..
(Ah, that would be Karen and Make it Lady:)
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dusky.sk%2Fpics%2Ffrommail%2Fzeny1.jpg&hash=8b083ce8de8c84a07bf043249ceac46c)
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An elegant solution to that most common of problems, as a lady sits down to her personal computer, works also with laptops, IPhone and GPS..
LOL...a make up mouse!
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Some proof of how Darwin thought.(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dusky.sk%2Fpics%2Ffrommail%2Fimage001.gif&hash=4c3b39d590aca7bec6d1fbb22ec3883e)
*Ouch*
==
And now, welcome to "Spot my bunny"
.
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dusky.sk%2Fpics%2Ffrommail%2Fstereo%2Fbunny2.jpg&hash=156864a5469344328faea36f6c47d59a)
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You can use <Cntrl +> to enlarge the image in Firefox. (or use 'view' in IExplorer)
I can never find these things! LOL
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Two bunnies !!
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tomorrow, they'll be twenty !
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lol...someones been breeding!lol...
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Okay, as you all know our proud SAAB-empire nowadays are hard pressed to come up with a new innovative approach to automobiles. Here I proudly present the new owners first milestone of human engineering. A human approach to, ahm, speed?
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dusky.sk%2Fpics%2Ffrommail%2Fzeny7.jpg&hash=d3592fa5c5d9922ca548dd7a4185a6b4)
Nifty
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And for those preferring other means of transportation?
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dusky.sk%2Fpics%2Ffrommail%2Fstereo%2F25.gif&hash=50d758111ba58d8109b63824b2ed384e)
===
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A tip 4U Westerners traveling far and away..
When the need strikes.
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(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dusky.sk%2Fpics%2Ffrommail%2Funtitled-3.jpg&hash=22247dbd05f478a03b1447e97568009d)
Yes. It's perfectly portable as you can see.
A safe Swedish design, built for durability, day after day, year after year...
==
And something to calm ones nerves with while, ah, delivering perhaps?
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(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dusky.sk%2Fpics%2Ffrommail%2Fstereo%2F5.gif&hash=4bc33038f3911db9b413b45da8e51c62)
.
==
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(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dusky.sk%2Fpics%2Ffrommail%2Fstereo%2F22.gif&hash=6fe208b087b0dbe9ce74717309213819)
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Now this has no relevance whatsoever to anything.. But, neither have I. So, without further Ado, for those scientifically inclined I hereby proudly present..
How Flight Come To Be...
Shamelessly stolen.
==
----Quote---
" Mary Schaefer's (NASA) "Lift Demons" and "Drag Demons" "
The Role of Lift Demons and Thrust Pixies in Heavier Than Air Flight
Publication Date: April 2005
Abstract: The role of Lift Demons in aeronautics was first explained in 1994
by Mary Shafer (NASA). Since then, Shafer's work has been explored and
revised. This paper summarises advances in Lift Demon technology over the
last decade.
Keywords: Lift Demons, Thrust Pixies, lemon fondant
Question: How did the secret information on Lift Demons make it into the
public domain? I have been a practising Aircraft Performance Engineer for the
past 26 years and have always tried to explain how aeroplanes fly by using
the official public explanations regarding Bernoulli, airfoils and other
such rot. Civilians just weren't ready for the truth.
In fact, we generally do not speak about the magic directly. Most of our plans
and estimates usually end with the phrase "and then a miracle
happens".
Answer: The science of Lift Demons was declassified in 1994, throwing this
topic wide open for discussion and research.
According to Shafer "Lift is caused by Lift Demons.
These little, invisible demons hold on to the leading and trailing edges of
the aircraft and lift it into the air by flapping their wings (so, in a
reductionist sense, lift is actually caused by feathers). Some of the demons
are a little confused and they hold on backwards, causing drag. The reason
that planes stall at high alpha is that the leading edge demons get scared and
let go when they cannot see the ground anymore.
Lift demons have good taste and do not like to look at ugly aircraft, so they
hold on backwards on ugly planes. That's why gliders have so much lift and so
little drag and why F-4s have lots of drag." This, however, did not address
what gives lift to the Lift Demons' wings. Again, according to Shafer
"Feathers. The multiple filaments on feathers trap the air molecules and they
struggle to escape, which causes the action-reaction that we call lift. Bat
wings do not have feathers but they're hairy and that works just about as well
(air molecules are a little claustrophobic)."
It was originally believed that Lift Demons got their lift from smaller Lift
Demons whose lift was, in turn, produced by even smaller Lift Demons leading
to the "Infinite Demons Theory" as proposed by the great Greek
philosopher-scientist Miasma. However, with the revival of scientific
knowledge that eventually ended the Dark Ages, it was realised that this
situation unresolvable according to Zeno's paradox. The "Infinite Demons
Theory" works in many problems of engineering significance, however, real
understanding requires that the ether be introduced into the analysis at
some point. The "Ether Concept" explains why planes fly more efficiently at
higher altitudes. This is an absolute necessity when studying orbital and
interplanetary travel where, it is believed, many of the Lift Demons are
unable to breathe.
As always the Chinese seem to have been there first. "The Genius of China",
tells of one Ko Hung. "Someone asked the Master (Ko Hung) about the
principles of mounting to dangerous heights and travelling into the vast
inane. The Master said "[...] some have made flying cars with wood from the
inner part of the jujube tree, using ox leather straps fastened to returning
blades so as to set the machine in motion. Others have the idea of making
five snakes, six dragons and three oxen to meet the 'hard wind' and ride on
it, not stopping until they have risen to a height of 40 li (about 65,000
feet). The the ch'i [emanation of the sky or perhaps wind] is extremely
hard, so much so that it can overcome the strength of human beings. [...]
Take dragons, for example; when they first rise they go up using the clouds
as steps, and after they attained a height of forty li then they rush
forward effortlessly gliding." The jujube tree device sounds like the
Osprey. Scholars believe that the term "dragon" referred to the Lift Demon
and that the Chinese had harnessed their power before the Western world had
even discovered the Lift Demons' existence.
Lift Demons operate differently on different aircraft types. They get dizzy
holding onto a spinning prop and become disorientated, thus more of them
face the wrong direction which increases the drag. Lift Demons have to be
magically bound to jet engines and an Airbus propulsion engineer explained
"It takes an average of three day's solid chanting and ritual to get one of
those 'engine' things to work. If us witches stopped our hard work, there'd
be planes dropping out of the sky all over the place. We should never have
let you lot find out about being able to fly, it's been nothing but trouble
ever since."
Recognition of Lift Demons has also solved one of aviation's oldest puzzles:
Gremlins. There appears to be a connection between Gremlins and Lift Demons.
Gremlins may be Lift Demons that have, in some way, turned against the
pilot. Instead of assisting him in his task of keeping the machine in the
air, they do the opposite. The reason may be that, after reading about the
Bernoulli/Newton dichotomy, they have become confused.
Much has been written about Gremlins, dating back to WWII. Gremlins have been
known to run towards the nose of an aircraft, causing it to dive into the
sea, showing that they have at least some knowledge of the principles of
flight. These days, most planes carry a full complement of In-Flight Gremlins;
although they must be carefully managed, their presence generally inhibits
the transformation of rogue Lift Demons into Gremlins.
Further study of Lift Demons was carried out by an aero-industry weights
engineer who submitted the following scientific paper in 2004 to celebrate
the anniversary of Shafer's ground-breaking article:
"There are still people in this company who think we weigh aircraft to find
out how much they weigh, not to calculate stresses. Of course we need to
know how much the thing weighs. How are we ever going to know how many
Thrust Pixies we need to get the thing off the ground if we do not know the
weight? Or should that be "Lift Demons"? Pixies have largely fallen into
disrepute - something about Bernoulli not being representative in unbounded
conditions and cause and effect being transposed in the Newtonian model.
In fact the use of Lift Demons on civil aircraft programmes is generally not
that good an idea. The Demon binding contract tends to specify payment in
blood or souls. This is readily achievable with aircraft of military
function, but frowned upon in civilian circles as they may attempt to
acquire payment outside of the terms of their binding contract. Lift Demons
are not used on Elf bombers. We do not talk about Lift [Thrust] Pixies too
often as it seems to upset the self-loading cargo [passengers]. Pixies
require payment in cakes, flowers or nice thoughts.
These are readily sourced either from the in-flight catering, or provided
cost-free by the passengers. Clearly this would not work well within an
operational military environment. Air force cooking isn't renowned for the
"light and fluffy texture" that Thrust Pixies demand, the availability of
flowers might be problematic in desert operations, and nice thoughts may
also be hard to find during times of active operations.
There is also a scalability issue. While one rampant Lift Demon would have
few problems supporting a fighter aircraft (particularly if there is an
immediate prospect of blood), it'll struggle to achieve level controlled
flight of a 560 tonne Airbus A380. Use of more than one Lift Demon on the
same flight vehicle is contra-indicated (they squabble and eat each other).
Communities of Thrust Pixies can be encouraged to work together on the same
aircraft by the provision of advanced technologies such as Lemon fondant
icing, variegated tulips or in-flight romantic comedies. Ryanair once
requested Leprachauns be installed in place of Lift [Thrust] Pixies, but
Leprechauns have a mission statement which indicates their desire for
monetary gain, and their willingness to search all over the world for it.
This makes Lift Leprechauns expensive to keep (gold vs. lemon fondant
icing), and makes it difficult to establish a regular route network as the
Lift Leprechauns do not like to continuously visit the same locations. By
law, aircraft also have to have a full complement of In-Flight Gremlins, but
these are generally not a problem unless you feed the Wingtip Vortex Faeries
after midnight."
His article shows that we've moved on a great deal since 1994. It has been
known for some time that Lift Demons are best suited to military uses. In
spite of suggestions that Pixies have fallen into disrepute, outside of
military aviation it is Lift Demons that are considered passé - they have
notoriously short attention spans and the ones used on Harriers have
problems discriminating between air and water.
Inbreeding in pursuit of the ultimate high performance Lift Demon may have
been the cause. In civil aviation, the way ahead still lies with Thrust
Pixies, large amounts of lemon fondant icing and in-flight Hugh Grant movies.
Many instances of civil planes mysteriously falling out of the sky can be
traced to (a) cessation of happy thoughts/lack of lemon fondant for the pixies
(resulting in "Pixie Fatigue" or even "catastrophic pixie failure") or to
(b) a large amount of happy thoughts/gateau mountain at ground level
distracting the pixies from their task. Thrust Pixies dislike
Marmite/Vegemite (yeast extract) and since such spreads can cause unhappy
thoughts in some passengers, airline caterers are careful to avoid these.
A note on Catastrophic Pixie Failure: Temporary pixie problems resulting in
turbulence or sudden loss of altitude causes unhappy thoughts in the
passengers (which is why cabin staff and pilots alway play down such
occurrences). The resulting loss of happy thoughts causes further Pixie
failure, worsening the situation.
This makes passengers have even more unhappy thoughts and the Pixies become
more fatigued; some may even leave the aircraft. Unless counter-acted by large
lemon fondant reserves, Pixie Failure reaches catastrophic proportions and the
aircraft is doomed.
Modern aircraft designers use Lift Fairies and avoid the whole controversy
regarding the used of Lift Demons on civil aircraft programmes. Coming from
a less benevolent cast, Lift Fairies are less dependent on nice thoughts or
cakes. Fairies tend to less concerned with good and evil and hence make
better dual use aircraft. Another major headache today is how to get 707
Lift Fairies at a reasonable price. Many of the older aircraft-specific
fairies have become rare, if not unavailable. Aircraft numbering relates to
the type and quantity of Lift Demons or Lift Fairies needed. For example a
C-130 requires 130 "C class" Lift Demons while an Airbus A380 uses 380 "A"
class Thrust Pixies. Aero engineers have a scale of values (proprietary
information, not available in the public domain) allowing them to substitute
different numbers of Pixies and Demons with different lifting abilities,
thus making best use of the available surfaces.
There was short-lived interest in breeding a generic, or at least dual-use,
"Thrust Demon" but the blood-loving Lift Demons ate the gateau-loving Thrust
Pixies. In vitro techniques failed because their genietic [sic] material is
incompatible so there are no hybrid Thrust Demons. DNA sequencing has
allowed us to distinguish between many castes of Lift Demon, Thrust Fairy
etc. For example due credit should be given to the inelegantly named Fart
Fairies without whose bean eating and gas production, no machine could power
itself from the earth's surface. The shy Turbine Winder-Rounder Gnomes hide
inside those so-called engine nacelles from the public and indulge their
serious kerosene drinking problems. Why else would the engines be called
Gnome engines? Leading-Edge Leeries give the extra little push that keeps
the nose up. The unfortunate tendency for RAF Harriers to crash into the sea
has led to speculation that Harriers are equipped with Sirens or that the
crashes resulted from an ill-advised experiment in using Water Nymphs (these
are better suited to submarine propulsion). In any case, only export
versions of the Harrier are likely to use Sirens, while those for the
British domestic market use Banshees leased from the Irish.
Thrust Pixies are adequate for civil aircraft, while Lift Demons were good
in military applications in years past, but modern Naval Aviation is
currently all Angel-powered. The very best ones are, of course, Blue Angels.
This is why they report their altitude as "angels twenty" or such. In
addition, many Navy pilots claim that black air has no lift, which means
they can get all night in to supplement their daytime naps between meals.
This shows that Angels and Naval Lift Demons are strictly diurnal.
Genetically engineered, military-tolerant Thrust Pixies may be what is
needed. Thrust Demons might also have applications in getting Air Force
maritime patrol aircraft to stop reaching "prudent limit of endurance" by 2
p.m. (local time) every Friday just after reporting a "possible intruder"
submarine in the exercise area, and not be restored to flying status until 9
a.m. Monday, thus leaving the ships to stay out over the weekend looking for
the "intruder".
There are no Anti-Gravity Demons so a different approach has to be taken in
this field of research. Current research into inertia-free propulsion has
shown great promise through the use of properly modified felines. Butter is
spread evenly over the felines back. When the creature is tossed lightly
into the air, the third law of universal fate dictates that it must land
butter side down. However this does not occur due to the intervention of the
feline landing axiom (feet first). The above conflicting forces result in a
stable hover. The subject felines have demonstrated the ability to control
their own velocity at will. The only loose ends delaying the full
commercialisation of this process is the matter of persuading the felines to
(a) work in teams; (b) not lick off the butter and (c) follow a flight plan.
As there seems to be a deficiency in feline herding instincts, any
suggestions would be appreciated by the researchers involved.
--End of quote--
And yes, Mary Schaefer is recently working on explaining the theory of relativity, begetting some invaluable help from the advice of her tame Hobgoblin. We inside the closest circle of TNS are expecting a Gut-wrenching Toe any day now..
Stay tuned.
-
Bone breaking News...
==
By the help of our Mary we have gotten some new evidence of what a photon really is, or possibly a electron, we can't really say for sure and the hobgoblin refuses to say anything more than, "You're gonna wreck our homes too?" showing a, to us scientists, most deplorable attitude towards scientific progress.
Now, the first glimpse of the secret pixie(l)s world was, as all forays of importance, made at the very dawn, before first light, transluminated only by our thirst for knowledge. We can proudly boast that those photos not only proof that pixie(l)s exist, but also that we feel that we have succeeded in pinpointing their origin. And, as we say that we humans came from Africa originally we can now, with an assurance bordering into total conviction, say that electrons and photons, possibly the whole array of transmuting particles, are coming from, yes Ladies and gentlebeings, the photo speaks for itself...
==
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(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dusky.sk%2Fpics%2Ffrommail%2Fstereo%2F11.gif&hash=2e03416823e68e7c372d069c2c8d3aea)
.
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Although them realizing us studying them they suddenly took their departure?
Screaming something about, Heisenberg?
We succeed in snapping a photo of them taking their departure though, another triumph for science. Although, be careful where you sit, that as we have understood it, around fifty percent of all particles now are on strike, due to what they call an 'inappropriate nosiness of humans'. But for those having a slight weight problem this can only be seen as a relief, so, another triumph for science I say..
===
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(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dusky.sk%2Fpics%2Ffrommail%2Fstereo%2F10.gif&hash=3151ed092782ee43aa529174d7a985e4)
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==
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So I know how bored you are, yes I do...
I'll share this one with you.
This is the ultimate way to treat a spammer.
And It's no fake, it actually happened, but as Geocities is gone I lifted it out..
4_U...
And, ah well :)
And if someone know who the genius writing this one is :)
Please tell, I haven succeed in finding out yet. And when the homepage existed I'm afraid I forgot to check. And that's sad.
.
-Part One--Quote----
.
It's October! In this spirit of Halloween, for this scam I'm trading my Tom Udo persona for Randolph Carter. If you're familiar with the works of H.P. Lovecraft, a fantasy and horror writer from the 1920s, you'll appreciate this, as I include a bunch of references to Lovecraft's "Cthulhu mythos." If you're not, sit back and enjoy the ride as Randolph gets way more than he bargained for.
.
From: "DR DAVID EHIZOJIE" [david_ehi@mail.com]
Date: Fri, Sep 27, 2002 00:53:47 -0700
Subject:
Received: 63.109.249.170 (HELO twomails4378.com) (63.109.249.170)
Chief (Dr.) david ehizojie (SAN)
David, Ayo & Co. Chambers,
Compliments of the day to you,
Firstly, let me introduce myself, I am Chief (Dr.)david ehizojie the principal partner of David, Ayo & Co. Chambers. I have been in the legal system for the past 30years. Right now I am a gubernatorial candidate in my state. And I hope to become the governor of my state come 2003 election.
I am one of the founding members of the ruling party, People Democratic Party (PDP). The party leaders have unanimously decided that I should be rewarded for my long-term support and steadfastness for the course of the party. As a reward the party leaders have given me the ticket as the governor of my state, Delta State, which is the oil nerve center of my country Nigeria. In addition, it was also decided by the leaders that the party would be responsible for sourcing the finance for my election. The party leaders mandated the presidency to find a way of raising funds to meet with my political ambition.
The Presidency has given me a gigantic project with the Liquidifed Natural Gas Company (LNGC). I was told to get a foreigner who will be my expatriate partner and as a front for the project. This favour is given secretively by the Presidency therefore the foreigner, who has no connection with Nigeria, will front as the owner of the project. The project is to the tune of US$88million (Eighty-Eight Million United States Dollars) and a mobilization of 50% which is US$44million (Forty-Four Million United States Dollars) will be given for the project to commence. I have overestimated everything to reach the true value of the project and it's US$22Million (Twenty-Two Million United States Dollars) with a lot of excess. All I have been asked by the Presidency to do is to provide a foreign company (that does not necessary have to be a company in the oil and gas field, it could be any company) that will be awarded the project and front for me. Once the project is awarded, the mobilization will be given to you.
If you are truly capable to handling the project, then you will execute and complete it, here in Nigeria. This will create a golden opportunities for an opening to establish your company in the oil and gas industry in Nigeria where money is flowing like a river. Alternatively, after collecting the mobilization we (me and you) can sell the project to any oil and gas company for only the true value, which is overestimated at us$22million. The remaining us$22million from the mobilization will be shared by us with a ratio of 75% to me and 25% to you. When the job has been fully paid for (normally half way through the completion of the project) we will give us$22million to the people at the presidency and us$22million for the leaders of my party. But if you choose to execute and complete the project the mobilization and any left over from he project is all ours and will be shared 60% for me and 40% for you.
I am unable to devoid information of the project for security and confidential reasons, but once I am convinced that you are capable and conscious of confidentiality I will then intimate you on all there is to know about this project.
The earlier I give them the name of the foreign partners the better, please do understand that time is of the essence here. You are to reach me immediately through my email box.david_ehi@lycos.com
Hoping to hear from you soonest.
Best regards,
Chief (Dr.) david ehizojie(SAN).
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 08:15:31 -0400 (EST)
Subject: Your business proposal
To: "DR DAVID EHIZOJIE"
Sir,
Your offer intrigues me. By coincidence I have suddenly found myself in immediate need of a large amount of money. Please, will you be interested in accepting my assistance? I hope that I can be assured of confidentiality.
I await further details.
Sincerely,
Randolph Carter
From: "DR DAVID EHIZOJIE"
Date: Mon, Sep 30, 2002 16:53:22 -0400
Subject: Response
X-Sender-IP: 63.109.249.170
Hello Randolph Carter,
Thanks for your email. Now that you have assured me of the confidentiality and your capability of handling this project, it is most important that I give you some load down on how we intend to achieve this project.
I will need your personal information such as your Phone number, fax and any other contact information so I can call you to discuss with you as it is unsafe to discuss matters on the internet. After receiving your confidential phone numbers, I will give you a call to have a long discussion for your perusal.
Your urgent and prompt response will be most appreciated.
Best regards
Dr. David Ehizojie
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 08:58:12 -0400 (EST)
Subject: Re: Response
To: "DR DAVID EHIZOJIE"
Dr. Ehizojie,
Thank you for trusting me and giving me the opportunity to assist you with this business deal. I apologize if my reply to you is somewhat long winded, but in the spirit of trust I feel it is only fair that you know something about me and my motivations. Please bear with me.
You have asked for my phone and fax number, and say that internet discussions are not secure. In my case that probably isn't true. My fax number is 1-253-xxx-xxxx. [My efax.com number] Incoming faxes are encrypted and routed to my email. I have an answering service that I use for receiving telephone messages: 1-877-864-2700, extension xxx [My ureach.com number]. My email, of course, is ----@hotmail.com, which I access securely. Currently, I'm traveling doing research, and don't have a fixed telephone number. I don't own a cell phone, and usually find myself in a different hotel or friend's house each night. Phone calls are therefore not secure for me. Thus, for next few weeks I have no fixed phone number, and you would do best to direct phone calls to my answering service. My address is:
Randolph Carter
137 Armitage Ave.
Arkham, MA 01972
Dr. Ehizojie, I work as an anthropological researcher with Miskatonic University, in Arkham. Recently, in the course of researching the belief systems of some obscure Polynesian cultures, I came across some fragmentary references to a god "Cthulhu." After more research, I found scattered references to Cthulhu in Egyptian, Mongolian, and several African cultures. I would ask you, since you are from Nigeria, if you're familiar with the name Cthulhu, possibly pronounced something like "Kloo-loo." If you are, I would appreciate it if you could send me any information.
My research eventually led me to a book held in the Miskatonic University library. "The Necronomicon" is a very old book, held in our rare books collection. It's locked in its very own cabinet, and the librarian is loathe to lend the key to anyone. Only my position as university researcher allowed me to convince him to let me peruse this tome. It's written in vulgar Latin, a translation of a more ancient Arabic book. The book contained several references to Cthulhu--in particular, in the odd couplet: "That is not dead which can eternal lie/And with strange aeons even death may die." The mythos described in the book implies that long ago, Cthulhu was banished--or thought killed--to the underwater city R'lyeh, where he lies dreaming, awaiting followers to summon him again to our world. The book also mentioned a peculiar chant, rendered into our alphabet as "Cthulhu fhtagn R'lyeh," used by his followers.
At this point, I had exhausted every reference at my disposal. But two weeks ago, I happened to travel to Innsmouth, MA, to do some research in the library there. There's a church there that seems to be an offshoot of some brand of Episcopalianism, called "The Order of Dagon." As I passed by, I heard from inside the church the selfsame chant I mentioned above. I waited outside for services to end, so that I could speak with some of the parishoners. Unfortunately, the few worshippers seem to have emerged from the back of the church. I tried to speak to the priest, but he was reticent to speak, claiming an engagement elsewhere. He locked up the church and shambled off to his car and sped away from the church. His appearance was odd--his eyebrows were nearly noexistant, and his eyes seemed oddly prodtruding and unblinking. Although not an old man, the skin about his neck was peculiarly wrinkled. He spoke with the trace of an accent I couldn't quite identify. Definitely a foreigner, but I couldn't quite identify his origin.
After this discovery, I began researching churches throughout this country, and found several others with names similar to "The Grand Mystic Order of Dagon." Apart from the names, I have found very little other information about them. Besides the one in Innsmouth I visited one in Kingsport and one in Norfolk, VA. I'm currently in Louisiana doing some research here on the Cthulhu or Dagon cult.
I think I've uncovered something quite interesting: a religion that appears to be active in today's society, but manages to slip almost wholly under the radar. My assisstant, Mr. Ward, is currently at work following up some leads with the "Church of Starry Wisdom" in Alexandria, VA. I think this is an incredible opportunity to study seldom seen belief modalities, and could result in my gaining tenure at Miskatonic University.
Unfortunately, Dr. Udo, the department chair, has tried to discourage me from this line of research. He has refused all department funding, and has tried to convince me to work on more traditional subjects. Thus, I have had to pay for travel for both myself and Mr. Ward out of my own pocket. I am currently on leave from the University and receiving no salary.
Thus, your kind offer of inclusion in this business deal could not come at a more fortuitous time. With the money I stand to receive, carrying my research forward should be no problem.
I hope you can see by my letter that I am an honest, motivated individual. Research is what drives me; not baser motives of greed. I have a small savings--about $30,000--that I am using for my research, a portion of which I would be willing to invest in this opportunity. If necessary, I'm willing to travel to Nigeria. I've never been there before, although as a graduate student I spent some time in Uganda and Rwanda.
Please excuse my long digression, but I feel it is important if we are to establish a measure of trust that you understand what an earnest individual I am, and what resources I have at my disposal. I promise you that future emails from me will be kept shorter and to the point.
What more do you require of me to move forward with this venture?
Thank you most sincerely for your time,
Randolph Carter
The Necronomicon, Cthulhu, Arkham, Innsmouth, Kingsport, R'lyeh, Dagon, "Starry Wisdom," and the names Ward, Armitage, and Randolph Carter are all very familiar to anyone that's read the works of Lovecraft. All this dope has to do is type them into a search engine and he'll see I'm full of sh1t.
From: "DR DAVID EHIZOJIE"
Date: Wed, Oct 02, 2002 11:16:28 -0400
Subject: What we must do asap
X-Sender-IP: 212.96.28.161
My dear friend,
I am very sorry for the delay in getting back to you. As an aspiring gubernatorial candidate I was very busy the past week due to the fact that voters registration was taking place here in Nigeria. In this country it is very important for an aspiring candidate to be on ground during the voters registration. The ability to win the seat you are vying for is determined on how many voters’ cards you are able to get on your side. Here, money does it all, I had to go to my state to mobilise a large number of people through my campaign team. We paid people to go and vote, collected their voter’s cards from them after the exercise. This voter’s card will be presented to our electoral commission during election. This automatically gives you, your victory as a candidate. You can imagine how much financial and human resource we involved to be able to get this success. My party leaders are very happy at me hard work and they are solely behind me, 100%.
I have discussed with my party leaders and our people in the presidency about your response and story. I am happy to inform you that they have all agreed on you handling this project as my expatriate partner. They have given me the go-ahead and their blessing to immediately commence this transaction with you. I did not explain your story to them because I wasn’t sure if you would want that. But I let them know that you are a very serious minded person, hard working and trustworthy too. I was also able to convince them that you keep everything confidential. They have instructed me to go ahead and put all the necessary papers in place for the legalisation of your company into our corporate system as a company who has been doing business in Nigeria for some time now, coupled with all other authorization. You are to maintain confidentiality of this transaction, absolutely no one is to know for now except your very trusted associate. The Presidency has instructed categorically that we sell the contract to the company they direct us to. They have also told me to bring all the papers latest by Friday, for them to pass approvals for the contract to awarded to you. In this case you have to give me a company name or a corporate name with which we shall make claim for the mobilisation.
I must commend your discovery. It goes to show that there are still a lot of hidden mysteries in the existence of mankind. After the completion of this deal I will like to be a part of your team both financially and materially, to uncover the truth about this CTHULHA. I know this will be very interesting and educative. And a lot of travelling to different countries will be involved and this is the best form of education.
What is needed for us to do as a matter of urgency is to get you registered in the corporate affair system here in Nigeria. Before Friday so that we can meet the deadline given to us by the presidency. I have gone to do all the feasibility study of how much it will cost for us to go about this.
1} We need to register you with the corporate affairs commission (CAC) and backdate the registration to reflect that you have been ding business in Nigeria for a long time now.
2} I need to pay taxes for your company or corporate name for the past three (3) years.
3} I need to register you with the NLNG Limited and also backdate the registration at least three (3) years.
4} I need to get expatriate quota certificate for you.
All this I have calculated to cost us$13,000 (thirteen thousand united states dollars only). Time is against us, I need to get this done tomorrow so I can submit all the papers to the presidency by Friday. The problem now is that have US$5,000 (five thousand united states dollars only) remaining in my account right now due to the just concluded voters registration. My wife has promised to raise us$2,000 by selling her jewelleries by the end of today or first thing tomorrow morning. All that is needed now is us$6,000.00.
You are to make arrangement and send me the US$6,000.00 (six thousand united states dollars) as soon as possible, by western union money transfer with the following information of my personal secretary: -
TONY IBRAHIM
24 ERIC MOORE STREET,
LAGOS – NIGERIA.
Then send the receipt of payment to me tomorrow not latter than tomorrow morning. You are to note that as soon as the fund has been confirmed in you account, we will firstly deduct all expenses we must have incurred in the course of this transaction (like the above) from the total before we then disburse as agreed.
You are also to make all adequate arrangement for you trip to Nigeria in the nearest possible time. Please, I would not want you to go through the interrogations and waste of time at the Nigerian embassy in your country. I have spoken to a very good friend of mine at the immigration services here in Nigeria, who will help you secure a visa here in Nigeria. All you have to do is conceal (wrap it up well) and post your International Passport to me by DHL. When I get it I will take it straight to my friend who will issue you a visa, and them I will post it back to you the same day. Note that it is compulsory you get a visa before you come to Nigeria. Without the visa, you will not be allowed into the country. Tomorrow I will give you the information you will post your passport with.
After the registration, you will need to be present in Nigeria to attend the Contract Award ceremony, where you will be expected to sign the agreement and all relevant documents with the federal government of Nigeria regarding this project. After then you will also be required to go to the central bank of Nigeria to sign the fund released documents, prior to the transfer of the mobilisation fee of US$22million into your nominated account. This will not take more than two days to execute once you are in Nigeria. We will eventually sell the contract.
As soon as the fund is confirmed in your account, I will come over to your country for disbursement as agreed. Please call me on any of my direct telephone number: 234 1 7756622 or 234 803 3010264 so we can discuss further. You can also fax me on 234 1 759 4097
Your brother and partner for life,
Chief (Dr) David Ehizojie
He wants me to send my passport to him???? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Yeah, right.
--End of part one----
-
---Part two-----
.
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 15:26:41 -0400 (EST)
Subject: Re: What we must do asap
To: "DR DAVID EHIZOJIE"
Dr. Ehizojie,
Thank you for agreeing to work with me. I understand well the problems of getting elected in your country; it works much the same over here--"money does it all" indeed.
The $6,000 you ask for presents, in principle, no problem. I am curious, though, why you need the money sent via Western Union. This is very odd--I didn't even know they were still in business. In this country, and in others I have visited, money transfer is done electronically through the banking structure. Has Nigeria no banking system? However, I may not be able to get you the money as soon as Friday. I am currently in the airport in Louisiana, awaiting a flight to Virginia. As I explained, Charles Ward, my associate is doing some research there. In his last email to me, he detailed plans to go undercover to the "Church of Starry Wisdom" for one of their services, as he was unsuccessful in getting any of the furtive parishioners to speak with him. I haven't heard from him for two days now, which is exceedingly odd. Now, just last night I had a call from a Detective Sipowicz with the Alexandria police force, requesting me to come at once. He wouldn't say what it was about, but I'm afraid that Mr. Ward may have gotten himself in trouble. So I must deal with this in the short term, and may not get to wire you the money until the weekend. Please, I hope this causes you no difficulty. I shall endeavor to keep you abreast of the goings on here.
I am glad you are interested in helping me with my investigation of this Cthulhu cult. It's fascinating research. Before I was suddenly called away from here, I was interviewing a man named Nahum Gardner, who had in his possession a curious stone artefact. It's an unsettling image of a tentacled, vaguely cephalepodic creature, with writing on the bottom that reminds me of something I'd seen once in the "Pnakotic Manuscript." Nahum had traded for the statue once long ago on a sea voyage. He said the natives referred to it as "Kltoo-hoo," which he felt might indeed refer to Cthulhu. He has lent the object to me, avowing a profound disgust for it, and seeming glad to be rid of it. He also gave me the name of some people to talk to back in Kingsport, MA.
So, my plan, after I sort out the problem in Alexandria, is to return to Arkham, where I can more easily withdraw $6000 from my bank and send it to you, and then continue my research in Kingsport. Thus, for the time being I will continue to communicate via email. Travel to Nigeria should not present a problem, as my schedule should allow it, and I can perhaps do some research there too. My passport is currently locked in a safe deposit box in Arkham, so I'll have to wait until I can retrieve that to send it.
I am endeavoring to maintain confidentiality, although it's making me somewhat paranoid. I'm typing this email on my laptop, and I'm sitting in a quiet corner, making sure no one can see my screen. There's a fellow in a dark, formless overcoat that I thought was watching me before, but I think I'm imagining things. Like last night, I thought I was being followed back to my hotel by two shambling forms that I couldn't quite make out in the fog. Yes, this deal is definitely making me overly paranoid. Plus I didn't sleep well last night--I had disturbing dreams of dark abysses, cyclopian ruins, and an odd piping sound that seems to envelop me. Perhaps I've been working too hard lately. It will be good to be rich soon.
My flight will be departing soon. Time to send this email. Thank you again, and I wish you good luck in your election.
Sincerely,
Randolph Carter
From: "DR DAVID EHIZOJIE"
Date: Thu, Oct 03, 2002 05:52:07 -0400
Subject: urgency
X-Sender-IP: 212.96.28.185
My dear Partner,
How are you doing today hope all is well. I got your email and there are certain things I want you to understand about being favoured by the Presidency, which is the highest office in the country. This is not only an upportunity but also the reason one was created, I mean to be able to become very successful and be a blessing to a lot of people. It is a once in a life time chance that should not be taken for granted.
I have always been known as Mr Right Time,because I tried my very best to alway work on time and be successful. It is because of the confidence the leaders of my party have for me that they choose me to undertake this race and project. I will inturn make sure that I dont disapiont them in any way, for continuity, who knows what they will need me for again, it might be a lot bigger than this.
You are the only miracle that can help me work on time now. The Presidency has already asked me to bring your papers by friday. As they will be meeting with the President himself for the weekend to get approvals for the project to be awarded and to whom. So if I am not able to get your papers to them by today it means I have failed the first test. For this simple reason I need you to send the US$6,000 by all means. The reason of me sugesting Werstern Union is that if you make the payment to day, I will get it that same day. If you are able to do it today I will get it today and pay for all the registration and legalisation of your company into our corporate system and backdate it. Once we are able to do this then the battle is won.
I want to use this medium to plead with you to do everything possible to send the money to me today by westernt union money transfer. If you are asked any question at the western union office, you tell them that you have just extended your research to Nigeria and that you are due there that is why you are transfering to your associate to put everything on groung before you get here. You also need to send me the reciept of the payment either by fax 234 1 7594097 or by attachment to this email box. This is all you have to do for me , leave the rest for me to handle. Once you retrieve your passport I will give you the posting information.
Your research is my research, my governoship is your governorship and we shall work together like this from now on. I trust in you and I sincerely hope you trust me too because that if our foundation.
I need your help Brother, waiting to hear from you soonest.
Yours,
David
From: "DR DAVID EHIZOJIE"
Date: Thu, Oct 03, 2002 06:08:05 -0400
Subject: Mr Ward
X-Sender-IP: 212.96.28.185
Brother,
I hope that Mr Ward is ok. Me and my wife remeber him in our prayers. Please do let me know exactly what is up with him. Though I can not do much from over here, but I will pray for and be there in spirit.
Yours,
David
Looks like he's buying it so far. Not only hasn't this dope ever read any Lovecraft, I guess they don't get NYPD Blue in Nigeria either, or he would have recognized Andy Sipowicz's name. Time to ratchet up the drama with an untimely and mysterious death...
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 12:46 -0400 (EST)
Subject: Re: Mr Ward
To: "DR DAVID EHIZOJIE"
Dear David,
Please excuse my not writing earlier. I hope this message will explain why, and will remove any fears in your mind about your choice in me as partner. Please be assured that I will send you the $6000 at the earliest possible instant, but it may be Monday before I can get to a Western Union office. If only you would allow a bank transfer, I could do it instantly from my laptop.
I arrived in Alexandria yesterday afternoon and met with Det. Sipowicz. My associate, Charles Dexter Ward, has always been a brash young man, and I feared he might have been involved in a fight. Alas, the reason I was called here was that his body was found floating in the Potomoc River. David, I can hardly bear to type these words, for I cannot help but feel that I was somehow responsible. I was called to identify the body, as Mr. Ward had no immediate relatives. I have seen bodies before, but never that of a friend. Although the sight was terrible, I could not tear my eyes away. His face betrayed a look of unutterable horror, as though he'd stared into the bowels of hell itself. His skin was pale, and bore a number of curious circular wounds, that the Detective could not explain.
I spent most of yesterday and today speaking with Det. Sipowicz about our research and what Charles was doing in Alexandria. I gave him the address of the Church of Starry Wisdom. He sent another detective there to check it out, but when he returned, he said the address led to an abandoned warehouse on the Potomoc waterfront. No one there has heard of this Church, and Charles's notes appear to be missing, so I don't know where we was researching.
David, as you can imagine I am highly upset by this. I will spend the rest of today with Det. Sipowicz, and maybe tomorrow too. Then hopefully I can travel back to Arkham and arrange to send you the money this weekend. There are no Western Union offices here in Alexandria, and I'd have problems anyway as my credit cards are nearly maxed out.
I understand well what you say about receiving the favor of the Presidency, and the need for speed. I apologize in failing you. You are more than willing to place the blame on me. You can direct folks to http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A33177-02Oct02.html which has a story about Mr. Ward's death, although it contains none of the details of his research.
David, I have continued to maintain confidentiality as to our business plan. I mentioned nothing to Det. Sipowicz about it, or about you, as I feel it has no bearing on the case and is not relevant. I intend to continue withholding this information from the police, as it is none of their business.
I will write to you tomorrow and let you know how things are going. Thanks to you and your wife for keeping me and the late Mr. Ward in your prayers. I have to go now and meet with the detective some more, and afterwards maybe I can get some sleep. I didn't sleep well again last night, as I was again troubled by dreams in which I first thought I was flying, then realized I was FLOATING through water in an unilluminable void. I have a memory of seeing something which jarred me awake, and kept me from going back to sleep. I suppose now I'll sleep even more fitfully now that Charles' death weighs upon me.
Again, I apologize for not being able to fulfill my end of things as well as you would wish. Please understand that I continue to be enthused and eager about our business deal and will conclude it as soon as possible.
Sincerely,
Randolph Carter
I made up the URL. As far as he knows, it looks like I just typed the URL wrong.
From: "DR DAVID EHIZOJIE"
Date: Fri, Oct 04, 2002 07:01:23 -0400
Subject: CONDOLENCE
X-Sender-IP: 212.96.28.156
My brother and partner,
I am so very sorry for the incident of Mr. Ward when I called my wife and told her, she was weeping. Sometimes one wonders what this world is coming to. Our prayer goes to Mr. Ward, that god will keep him in his blossom to have a peaceful rest.
I want you to try and put yourself together, be strong and do not be discouraged but instead do what mr. Ward know you for, and what he will expect you to do, especially carry on the wonderful work you both enjoy.
Try as much as possible to give the police less information about the discovery of you and mr. Ward until you are sure of the cause mr. Ward’s death. Keep low and rest a lot. You must be sure of the cause of Mr. Ward’s death before you can continue your research. Our prayers will be with you.
It will be better for us to wait till Monday for you to do the payment through western union. I have gone to our people in the presidency to try and delay their meeting till next week Tuesday. Let us hope that it will be possible. I want you to send me your corporate name (company name) that we are going to use in making the application for the project. It is this name that will be awarded the contract and paid the mobilisation.
Please do your best to get the money to me latest Monday. Also let me know when you have retrieved your passport, so that you can post it to me with the information I shall give you. I need to speak with you, so please call me or email me a convenient time and phone number I can call. If we decide to use bank-to-bank transfer, we are not sure of when I am going to get the cash in my hand, it might be to late.
Please take good care of yourself.
Your brother,
David.
Note: when you come to Nigeria, I will make sure you get a lot of massage and rest.
.
Hook. Line. Sinker.
Ewwwww! Who's going to do the massaging? Is he making a pass at Randolph?
Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 14:01:41 -0400 (EST)
Subject: Re: CONDOLENCES
To: "DR DAVID EHIZOJIE"
Dear David,
Thanks to you and your wife for your thoughts and prayers for Mr. Ward. Rest assured that I am following your advice and telling the detectives nothing of our business venture. Det. Sipowicz asked me today about my future travel plans in case there are any new developments in the case, but I told him only that I would be returning to Massachussetts and that I might be traveling abroad to do research, possibly to Africa, but he made no further inquiries. That was this morning--he took me to breakfast to finalize a few points and bring me up to speed on the investigation. He has concluded with me, and I plan to go back to Arkham tomorrow morning, as I have one more thing I want to do here in Alexandria.
Still not sleeping well; I continue to dream of deep unplumbed abysses, of eldritch amorphous shapes playing blasphmous piping tunes, and hideous cyclopian ruins of black basalt deep below a sunless sea. And always the feeling of being watched. Mr. Ward's death is obviously a great burden upon me, and is producing these unsettling imaginings. Even at breakfast this morning with Andy Sipowicz I felt these odd intrusions into my reality. The man sitting at the next table provoked profound feelings of dread--something in his repellant visage seemingly familiar and alien at the same time, and the feeling lingered even after he left. Maybe I am working to hard, as I have these feelings more and more often. It will be good to come to Nigeria and relax. The hospitality of African people speaks for itself, as you yourself have shown by including me in this deal.
You have asked for a company name to use in the transaction: I suggest "Kadath, Inc." It is the name of a home based business I ran some time ago. I don't know a good phone number--I'm in the Holiday Inn in Alexandria, and don't recall the number off the top of my head (I'm writing you on my laptop in a park down by the water). I don't trust the phones there for security, anyway.
I must go now. I'm currently reading the one small notebook that Mr. Ward left behind. Det. Sipowicz gave them to me, as he says they appear to be research notes only and have to bearing on the case. Not sure what they all mean; he mentions a "shining trapezohedron" whatever that is, and names like Azathoth, Shub-Niggurath, and Yuggoth. He also mentions Nyarlathotep, which I recall from the Necronomicon. There's only one section written in full sentences. I can't make out all of it, but he writes of a "byakhee" and something about being bound by light, and then there's a mention of the "watcher in darkness". I don't understand, and it makes my head throb. After tonight I should learn more. Will write you tomorrow from Arkham.
Yours,
Randolph Carter
----End of part two---
-
---Quote Part three----
From: "DR DAVID EHIZOJIE"
Date: Fri, Oct 04, 2002 14:53:31 -0400
Subject: how are you my brother
X-Sender-IP: 212.96.28.157
Dear brother,
How are you doing, hope you are not thinking too much. I pray that God Almighty give you the fortitude to bear this loss. Our prayers are with you.
I was able to get the people at the Presidency and they are prepared to do everything possible to move their meeting with President himself to early next week. If it will be too much stress to send the US$6,000:00 by western union money transfer, then you can do the payment through the Bank Account information of my Accountant:
BANK OF OVERSEA
CHINESE OFFSHORE BANKING BRANCH
TAIPEI TAIWAN
SWIFT CODE: OCCBTWTP001
ACCT NAME: AVS TRADING COMPANY
ACCT NO.: 026-007-02037380
After you make the payment you will tell your bank to send you the payment slip and send the slip to me. I will then take this slip to my accountant who will confirm the payment before giving me cash. Which ever way is more convineint for you is ok by me.
You are also to send your International Passport to me by DHL and send the airway bill number to me by fax or attachment to my email box. You are to use the information below for the posting of your passport.
SAMUEL TANKO IGBANA
C/O DHL OFFICE
EKO HOTEL SHOPPING COMPLEX (SHOP 1)
AJOSE ADEOGUN STREET,
VICTORIA ISLAND,
LAGOS NIGERIA.
I want you to remain strong for us. Please call me or send a mail to let me know how you are fairing. Waiting to hear from you soonest.
Your Brother,
David
Cool. Bank information. I know just the folks who can use that...
Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 12:11:30 -0400 (EST)
Subject:No Loss - For your database - Includes bank information
To: 419.fcd@usss.treas.gov "Secret Service Financial Crimes Division"
Hi,
I received the following message from a "419" scammer. You may be interested in it, as it contains useful financial information.
The rest of my exchange with him may be viewed at: www.geocities.com/steerp1ke/David_Ehi.html .
Sincerely,
T. Udo
[Enclose previous email message from scammer]
.
Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 12:27:45 -0400 (EST)
Subject:Re: how are you my brother
To: "DR DAVID EHIZOJIE"
Dear David,
Just a quick message; waiting for my plane back to Arkham. No point in wasting your time telling you what happened here yesterday; i'm not sure i believe it myself. know now what charles meant by "shining trapezohedron." we thought it was just a simple religion. damnable cult. might be more truth than i thought in the Necronomicon. saw one of the detectives make the Voorish sign, can they be in it?
thank you for the banking information. i can't do anything with it as its the weekend. Monday will go to my bank and get my passport and transfer the money. $6000 is no problem, should have it by Tuesday latest.
didn't sleep much last night. kept the lights on. charles must have done that too, for the byakhee, but it was the Other that got him. no that's nonsense. my head is swimming from lack of sleep. that damnable piping sound--Azatoth and his amorphous idiot flute players? will rest on the plane.
thank you for your help, i hope to have things wrapped up soon and then i meet you in Nigeria.
Yours ever,
R. Carter
From: "DR DAVID EHIZOJIE"
Date: Sat, Oct 05, 2002 13:34:42 -0400
Subject: please take good care of yourself
X-Sender-IP: 216.139.170.171
My dear brother,
Greetings from my wife and myself, hope you are well. Please try as much as possible to get enough rest. And I want you to keep your research low key, in other wards keep everything to yourself for now until things die down. I want you to know that our prayers are with you and no harm shall come near you. We await your arival in Nigeria were we would take good care of you and make you relax from all this stress.
Take care,
Your Brother,
David
This guy certainly does check his email a lot. He's replying back within the hour. Let's hope Randolph is wasting plenty of his time.
Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 16:56 -0400 (EST)
Subject:Re: please take good care of yourself
To: "DR DAVID EHIZOJIE"
Dear David,
Thanks to both you and your wife for your kind wishes and thoughtful prayers in my time of need. You have no idea how it makes me feel knowing there are people such as you in the world. I sincerely hope I can find some way to reward you for what you're doing to me.
My apologies too if my last email was rambling--the effects of lack of sleep no doubt. I slept well on the plane, and had troubled dreams only once--I thought I saw a queer shadow that passed across the window next to me. I feel much better now that I've left Alexandria and am back in Arkham--it was good to get out of there. You see, on Friday afternoon I went to the address at which Mr. Ward had claimed the Starry Wisdom church was located. It was indeed a warehouse--empty by the looks of it. I snuck in through a broken window and looked around. My investigation yielded nothing until I went upstairs. Atop the warehouse was a largish room filled with chairs and a curious wide sort of lectern at the front almost like an altar. I could gain no clue here, but as I was about to leave I spied a small box hidden in a corner. Inside as an odd, bluish piece of angular glass. It looked like a cheap facsimilie of a jewel. I stared at it for a long while, my mind thinking in its sleep-addled muddleness of what Mr. Ward had written of a "shining trapezohedron" and its connection to the legends of the Old Ones. Clearly nonsense, and yet as I gazed into it, I started to have terrible visions. Wide unilluminable spaces, furtive shapes shifting across my view, and then suddenly it seemed as if I was no longer in the room, but floating. And then, most disturbingly, I felt as if I were no longer gazing at the glass, but that IT WAS GAZING BACK AT ME. I felt a cold presence enveloping me, and cried out. At that instant my attention snapped back into the room, and I found myself upon the floor. I had apparantly fainted, and had hurt my arm somehow in the fall, as there serveral small wounds where I must have hit my arm against something. I felt delirious and very afraid. I pocketed the glass and ran out out of the warehouse. I had intended to give it to the detective, but then I remembered two things. First, you told me to be circumspect in relation to my research. Second was something from Mr. Ward's notes, or maybe theat accursed Necronomicon. Something about the "Watcher in Darkness" and the gateways used by the Old Ones and how its best not to let Them know of your presence. I tell you, the study of mythology does not combine well with sleeplessness and stress. I was utterly terrified, and stayed in my room with the lights on passing a sleepless night.
I suspect that the dank, dusty, moldy warehouse reacted badly with my allergies and caused me to hallucinate and faint. It's amazing the way a good rest can give you a fresh perspective. The "shining trapezohedron" is nothing more than a badly cut chunk of glass or crystal, and sits on my desk. I shall most likely throw it out.
Sorry to bore you with this nonsense; I just didn't want you worrying as to my state of mind. Everything is on track for me to go to the bank tomorrow to effect the transfer and retrieve my passport. I suppose I shall have to look at flights to Nigeria. Where is the closest airport? I shall buy my tickets in advance to take advantage of the cheap airfare.
I must go now. There's a storm coming, and I had a computer destroyed by lighning several years ago. Looking forward to a good night of rest.
Yours,
Randolph Carter
I really do mean that. I hope this guy is justly rewarded for what he's trying to do to me ;)
From: "DR DAVID EHIZOJIE"
Date:Mon, 07 Oct 2002 07:14:57 -0400
Subject: glad to know you are safe
X-Sender-IP: 212.96.28.151
My dear Brother,
I am very happy to know that you left Alexandria. One thing that I know for sure is that there are a lot of secret societies or cults all over the world. These are powered by certain evil forces which can only opperate in tha dark and secret places. I am very certain that you are about to uncover something very important, but you have to be very careful. If they know that you are close to uncovering their secret they will do everything possible to cut you short. That is why you must be very sure of the people you relate with as regards this discovery. Please take good care of your self and as soon as you are through with the bank, let me know.
I sincerely wish I could speak with you.
Waiting to hear from you soonest,
Your brother,
David
---End of part three---
-
And the last part :)
---Part four---
.
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 08:17 -0400 (EST)
Subject:Re: glad to know you are safe
To: "DR DAVID EHIZOJIE"
Dear David,
Regarding secret societies, a few days ago I would have said "nonsense" to you--they're mostly weird harmless kooks. Now I am not so sure. I'm not sure about anything right now.
Yesterday I had been feeling quite good after returning to Arkham, I attributed most of what I'd seen--thought I'd seen--to an overactive, sleep-deprived imagination and an allergic reaction. But last night was the worst by far; very little sleep for me.
There was an awful thunderstorm. I was in bed, trying to sleep, and inbetween thunder crashes I thought I heard odd noises. It was quite windy, but I thought I heard a fumbling at my door and each of the windows downstairs. I got up, and peeped out, but saw nothing. Then I heard it again...this time a fumbling at the window latches ON THE SECOND FLOOR. I threw open the shade and again saw nothing, but suddenly there was another crash of lightning, and down below in the trees I saw a hunched shambling form. It filled me with dread and I quickly drew the shade again. At that moment I spied the piece of glass I'd brought back with me. The crystal seemed to be glowing, slightly, with an odd unearthly color. I looked at it, gazed into it, and again found my mind wandering to deep eldritch spaces.
There are some things that should not be put into words--that are best left unspoken of. I will not describe everything I saw there, but suffice it to say I saw Him dreaming in His deep watery abode. I saw a gigantic eye slowly open and gaze at me. There were other things, too. I wasn't sure what they were, but when I started from my dreamy gaze into the crystal, and after I had thrown it away from me, I consulted the xerox copies I'd made from the Necronomicon. What I learned was terrible and confirmed my worst fears. I think I know what Charles died of. Tell me, David, have you ever heard tell of a shoggoth?
My plans have changed. This morning, as soon as it opens, I'll head to the bank and send you your money. I'll pick up my passport too and overnight it. Please be sure you send it back as soon as possible. I will be leaving the country as quickly as I can. I think this Cthulhu cult is rather more than a simple religion. I believe they think I've learned too much. And indeed I probably have. More even that I've told you as I would not wish to endanger your safety...or sanity.
The weather is predicting another storm tonight. I pray the power stays on tonight as it did last night. I would not want to be left in the darkness. The byakhee--the Watcher in Darkness--is held at bay by the light. They know where I am now. Must have been probing last night. Damnable Necronomicon. I burned the copies and all my notes. Will throw the Cthulhu statue in the Miskatonic River today on the way to the bank. No, perhaps not the river. Somewhere on land. I have to send you your money and then plan my escape from here so that They can't find me. Have deleted your previous emails too. Can't be too careful. They're everywhere. Probably following me for a while now until they were sure. Taking the trapezohedron must have been the last straw. Must destroy it too.
I ramble. I must get dressed and be off to the bank. Will write you after your money is transferred. Thank you again.
Yours,
Randolph Carter
From: "DR DAVID EHIZOJIE"
Date:Mon, 07 Oct 2002 079:1429:44 -0400
Subject: God is above all things
X-Sender-IP: 212.96.28.142
Brother,
I want you to know that greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world. Sometimes when we are faced with thinga we do not understand then it is necessary to put it in the hands of God almighty. I want you to be very carefull, I would not want anything to happen to you. There are evil forces, no doubt, but there is a power that is above all and that power is what my wife and myself has commited you to, so we are very confidence that no harm whatsoever shall come near you, if they rise up against you they will surely fall. All you need to do now is to be very carefull, make sure you do not sleep alone in one place, when it is night then go to where there are a lot of people, if possible sleep in a well secured and occupied hotel.
Another thing is that, you must take the shining trapezohedron and keep it in a safe deposit box, until you are ready to come to Nigeria. I want you to bring it with you to Nigeria. You know that a lot of people here are very experienced in this kind of matter over here, therefore when you bring it here we will consult the wise ones for them to tell us what it is and what you should do with it. Now that they know that you have it and they have not come near you but they have shown themselves t you, then there is an edge you have over them. In this case you must not take anything for granted. Keep the thing in a safe deposit box and also keep the key to box far away from where you are goimng to sleep this night, let us see if they are after you or they are after the stone. Which ever way we have to get to the bottom of this. I am very positive that this will put your name in the front pages for a very long time.
You can do the transfer to me either through western union money transfer to TONY IBRAHIM or through the bank account information I have provided for you. Once you are through with that then send me a mail to let me know or better still call me from any phone point. You can give any number for me to call you back, I realy want to speak to you by all means. Do not worry once I get the passport I will get it to the imigration that same day and have them issue you the visa and send it back that same day so that you can get it on time.
Everything is ok down here. I have just spoken to the people at the presidency and they have once again assured me that everything is going as planned. As soon as I give them the documents on your company name the will get to the Presidence himself and put in the papers for the Contract to be approved to your company. With this all that will be left is for you to come to Nigeria for the award ceremony. Please make haste with all the plans so you will come down here.
Please take good care of youself and be very cautious of everything around you. Stay blessed I know my God will protect you.
Your brother,
David
Oh my god. This may be the most gullible person in the whole world. I should be trying to scam him for money. I mean, I'm not even writing good Lovecraftian fiction here. You'd think anyone with an IQ greater than that of a bag of hammers would see through this. If I'd know the guy was this gullible, I would have planned out a longer story arc.
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 15:21:40 -0400 (EST)
Subject:Re: God is above all things
To: "DR DAVID EHIZOJIE"
David,
I'm so confused. Everything is going to hell. At least I was able to send you your money. Went to my bank this morning, and used the "Bank of Oversea" information you gave me. I had a hard time doing it. The bank president--it's a small bank--wanted to personally handle it. He kept asking me questions about why I was sending money offshore like this. I guess with all the terrorist activity recently they're trying to keep a tight lid on money transfers. I didn't tell him about you or our deal, but he kept looking at me funny. He really is the most repellant person; I'd met him before but never noticed his odd batrachian features. His eyes bulge out in a most disconcerting way and he hardly ever blinks. It took a long while to fill out the paperwork and answer his questions. Will scan the receipt in tonight and email it to you. Transfer should be complete by close of business tomorrow, and maybe even later today.
That's the good news. Bad news, I can't find my passport. Like I said, it was in my safe deposit box, but after I was done with the money transfer I went to my box (in the same bank) and the passport wasn't there. I don't understand. The only other thing in the box was some curious jewelry left me by my grandmother, and it was still there. Only the passport was gone. The bank denies any culpability and says I must not have had it in there.
I must tell you my suspicions: I think the bank president may be a member of the Cthulhu cult. I think he took the passport to prevent me from escaping the country. Not sure how he knew my plans. My email is secure and I change my password daily. The only other one that knows I'm planning on leaving the country is Det. Sipowicz. I remember telling him as we were having breakfast in the restaurant, and there was an odd man there. I think he overheard and passed the information on. They're definitely on to me. I dare not go to the police. Only one way to fight this thing. I am on my way to the library to have another look at that accursed Necronomicon. Have to face this thing head on.
I don't think I'll take your advice on the trapezohedron. My safe deposit box isn't so safe. Better to destroy it. Too dangerous. Gateway to the Old Ones? You say god is above all things, but I have read in the Necronomicon about Hatheg-Kla. There are Others to worry about.
Have to run to the library. Storm clouds are gathering in more ways than one. Let me know when the money shows up in your account.
Yours,
Randolph
Well, this looks like the end for Randolph Carter...
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 22:48:44 -0400 (EST)
Subject:Re: God is above all things
To: "DR DAVID EHIZOJIE"
David--
i don't know who to turn to. shouldn't have looked in the Necronomicon--forbidden knowledge. couldn't find a way to keep the byakhee at bay; am sure they're coming for me. bad storms again tonight, i'm not sure if the power will hold. every light is turned on in the house, thank god for the streetlights outside.
i know now what the trapezohedron is. should have left it alone, as I saw too deep. Worst thing is that It saw me--He sees out of the stone. Threw the damnable thing away, there's probably no way to destroy it. I've learned too much about the cult and worse still i know what they plan--how they will awaken Him. The Old Ones can return only when the stars are right, and they nearly are. don't know how to stop them, but they aim to make sure i can't meddle.
they won't launch an attack during the day, but now that it's night (nearly 11 pm my time) i'm sure they'll try for me. damn spawn of cthulhu. as long as the power stays on i'm safe from the Watcher.
I'm glad I could at least send you your money. promise me that if you win the election maybe you can influence the president and get him to talk to ours about this cult. have to be stopped before it's too late--before he awakes. maybe you can use some of the millions to help investigate. i'm not sure i'll live to see my share.
this storm is the remnant of the hurricane that hit the south coast of the US last week. it hit Louisiana first. I just learned today that Nahum Gardner, whom i was interviewing there, was lost in the storm. seems suspicious.
lightning is coming closer now. i've gone to battery power on the laptop in case the power dies, want to be able to send this. typing as fast as i can
don't worry, i've destroyed all our emails so you should be safe. nevertheless keep looking out for these guys. many of them have the same queer facial features--bulging eyes, protruding lips, a flabby appearance and shambling gait. you can tell if they make the voorish sign--the right hand makes a
oh god power is flickering that last lightning blast was close
just lost power
i looked out of the window the streetlights are out, all is dark except for the flash of lighning
it's over for me the Watcher in Darkness comes eyes of flame enormous wings terrible
.
And then, the next morning, just to make things obvious, Dave gets this message from NYPD Blue character Greg Medevoy...
.
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 08:32:18 -0400 (EST)
Subject:Randolph Carter
To: "DR DAVID EHIZOJIE"
From: Detective Greg Medevoy
Dear Sir or Madam,
I am a detective with the Arkham, MA police force. I am investigating the break-in of Mr. Randolph Carter's residence, and the subsequent disappearance of Mr. Carter. Last night, neighbors heard a tremendous crash from his house. Thinking it had been hit by lightning, they investigated, and found damage to the upper story of the house. Police responded and discovered a large amount of blood in the upstairs bedroom, but no sign of Mr. Carter.
An examination of his computer, found turned on, showed that he had recently sent email to this address. I would be interested in any information you could provide on this case. Why was Mr. Carter writing to you? Who are you and where are you located? All information provided will be kept strictly confidential.
Thank you,
Greg
=========================
Detective Greg Medevoy
Akham, MA Police Dept.
(911) 867 5309
=========================
And there things ended. Dave never wrote back. Is he scared? Or did he finally figure out his chain was being yanked? A few weeks later, loyal reader "Herbert West" took it upon himself to do a bit of chain yanking himself. Here's his result:
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 21:47:48 -0500 (EST)
To: "DR DAVID EHIZOJIE"
From: Herbert West
Dear Dr. Ehizoje:
My name is Herbert West. Please allow me to explain why I am writing to you. I work with the Computer Lab at Miskatonic University in Arkham, MA, where I was contacted recently by a Detective Greg Medevoy, regarding a laptop computer belonging to Randolph Carter. I didn't know Mr. Carter personally, but I had seen him now and again around our campus, and I was greatly surprised when Detective Medevoy informed me of his disappearance. There was no mention of it in any of the local newspapers.
In the past, I have worked closely with the Arkham Police Department, as my particular skill lies in what could be described as "forensic computer technology," and this is why they have gotten in touch with me at this time. I have the knowledge and ability to dig very deeply within the file structure of any computer, and retrieve items that the computer 's owner may be unaware of, that is, histories of web pages visited, e-mail correspondances, etc. If you can imagine, a history of almost every keystroke ever made on a computer exists somewhere within the computer itself. Det. Medevoy indicated to me that he hoped I could find any information which could shed some light on Randolph Carter's vanishing. This is what led me to contact you.
I have read the correspondances between you and Mr. Carter. Despite his assertions that he had deleted several e-mail letters between the two of you, I was able to search through several deeply embedded registry entries in Mr. Randolph's computer and virtually re-construct, or "re-animate," if you prefer, almost the entire sequence of e-mail writings between the two of you - only a few e-mails are missing, mostly the ones you sent to him, as these did not actually "originate" from his computer. I have not yet informed Detective Medevoy of what I have found, because I could hardly believe it myself, and wished to contact you first. Having spent some time now here in Arkham, I have of course heard "whispers" about the town of some of the things Mr. Carter shared with you, but every small fishing town along the East coast of this country probably has their own version of these tales, which I felt (previously) meant nothing more than to increase the allure to tourists. Now I am not so sure. As an outsider, or "flat-lander" as we are called here, there is a lot that is not shared outside of local circles, but I have begun to notice people fitting the descriptions Mr. Carter gave to you in his letters - bulging eyes, sallow appearence, unusually wrinkled skin around the neck areas. I guess that these people have always been around me, but it is only now that I have actually noticed them - a probable result of reading Carter's e-mails to you. I cannot imagine that these people would actually be increasing in numbers.
(Here's where I bait the hook...)
I eagerly look forward to finding out more about this. It would have to be on my own - I am not entirely sure of the abilities of the Arkham Police Department in the resolution of these matters, and I am beginning to hear some stories within my department of several of these disappearances prior to Mr. Carter, yet none have them seem to have been solved, and Arkham seems unwilling to enlist the aid of any Federal law enforcement agencies. I am fortunate, in some respect, in that I am able to travel rather freely: my computer abilities are in great demand, and what is essentially a hobby for me could be a very lucrative career, if I found such a thing to be necessary. My work at Miskatonic is pretty much in an advisory capacity, and with the recent decrease in University endowments, they would be unable to afford my salary were they forced to actually hire me, so I can come and go at my leisure. Believe it or not, I am able to write off my time spent at Miskatonic as charitable contributions! At the very least, I might drive down to Alexandria this weekend and see if I can pick up any threads of the story down there.
I know that Detective Medevoy will be expecting to hear something from me very soon, and I'm not sure how long I will be able to put him off while I have a chance to look around on my own. I'm not sure exactly what is that I hope to discuss with you, but I find the whole thing intriguing. I would also be curious to know if any other correspondance took place between the two of you beyond the confines of his e-mail account. I know that the two of you were discussing some sort of business transaction, but my interest in this is purely within the realm of these "secret societies" that Mr. Carter seems to have uncovered, and which may have unwittingly contributed to his disappearence and perhaps even to his death.
Sincerely,
Herbert West
From: "DR DAVID EHIZOJIE"
Date:Wed, 30 Oct 2002 11:50 -0400
Subject: hope u dont want the axe to fall on my friend
I WANT TO MAKE U UNDERSTAND THAT I DONT KNOW WHAT U ARE U HER TALKING ABOUT.
I HOPE U UNDERSTAND ME MY FRIEND.SO IF U DONT WANT THE AXE TO FALL ON U, U BRTTER BE YOUR SELF FOR ONCE MY FRIEND.
DONT U EMAIL ME ANGAIN FOR YOUR LIFE. LET TO BE YOUR FIRST AND LAST TIME U WILL THINK OF MY EMAIL BOXS.
BE YOUR SELF NOW OR NEVER OR THE AXE WILL FALL ON YOU.
No idea what that could mean. But it looks like Dave is so scared, he broke his Caps Lock key. Go on, be a man and send Dave some harrassing email yourself!
---End of quotes--
Made your day, didn't it :)
It sure made mine...
-
==
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.englishrussia.com%2Fperformer_art%2F1_018.jpg&hash=5d742b37718710b67e6c9ea63d21397e)
===
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That is a lovely picture.
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Thanks Yor_on.
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It's cool Karen :)
Now, that was ballet of the more ethereal 'swan lake' kind, but did you know that heavy equipment also can do it?
Didn't?
Cool, have a look at this, well, *Soaring experience*
==
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fenglishrussia.com%2Fimages%2Fsubmitted_photos_10%2F3.jpg&hash=94023787a7eed74a4fff29778867c116)
===
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??? am I missing something???
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(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fenglishrussia.com%2Fimages%2Fsubmitted_photos_10%2F3.jpg&hash=94023787a7eed74a4fff29778867c116)
===
Perhaps the operator was auditioning for the Bolshoi?
Or maybe he was just confused between tons and tonnes.
-
Exactly! The "tonne" should be abolished.
It would be much less confusing if it were called the meglokilowotsitgram or something.
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Now, I don't want to come on as preaching here...
But you shouldn't really drink and, well, drive..
But for those that can't stop themselves.
This might be a solution?
Sort of a 'handsfree', but, for a beer.
"But for a beer" as those immortal words go..
Horse? Whatever in the world have horses to do with this??
==
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fenglishrussia.com%2Fimages%2Frussian_beer_vs_swedish_car%2F2.jpg&hash=e8abf0213c895b8521be4d42fd9b523f)
==
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Exactly! The "tonne" should be abolished.
It would be much less confusing if it were called the meglokilowotsitgram or something.
Yes, Megagram. An actual unit of measure, abbreviated "Mg". 1 Mg = 1,000 kg = 1 tonne.
There you go! Of course, we know some twit in a hospital is going to get confused and attempt to give 10 Mg of some medication. Hopefully not rectally. Maybe we should just stick with tonnes [;D]
-
As we have such a cultured debate going here I would like to ask how to measure this beautiful statue?
==
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fenglishrussia.com%2Fimages%2Flive_sculptures%2F1.jpg&hash=f6c2811446d34be61e18c1ee1aa5fe07)
====
I know I tried, but somehow I got misinterpreted?
Scientific interest seems to be worth nothing in some circles??
===
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.englishrussia.com%2Flive_sculptures%2F1_049.jpg&hash=3f2e254e97cc338e8db7af9869bd2288)
==
Even them?
What am I doing wrong?
Or, why do statues hate science??
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I think she's saying, "Take one tonight, and if that does not work, come back and see me in the morning."
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Eh, one what?
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Exactly! The "tonne" should be abolished.
It would be much less confusing if it were called the meglokilowotsitgram or something.
Yes, Megagram. An actual unit of measure, abbreviated "Mg". 1 Mg = 1,000 kg = 1 tonne.
There you go! Of course, we know some twit in a hospital is going to get confused and attempt to give 10 Mg of some medication. Hopefully not rectally. Maybe we should just stick with tonnes [;D]
Do you think the medicine concerned will be magnesia or Epsom salts?
-
For those of you refusing to confront your own scientific truth
The choice stood once between Boris (the airborne frog) and Laika (the Space Dog).
==
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fenglishrussia.com%2Fimages%2Ffrog_can_fly%2F5.jpg&hash=c46385c176716dff123e3a335a2481fc)
==
Now you can say "Oh yeah? That was the day I saw a frog fly."
As you can see, Boris is quite focused and ready for action..
.
== and squared becomes a =
.
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dusky.sk%2Fpics%2Ffrommail%2Fstereo%2F12.gif&hash=de63bbdbd17c277218be8a1628c081a3)
.
==
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Don't know what to say about this one?
There can only be one perhaps?
Or - "Look I'm immortal?"
==
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fleprastuff.ru%2Fdata%2Fimg%2F20091121%2F877e0785b6e2e03324b45a293126e5d5.gif&hash=d4b82d35e05e45cf126a9ffac107dc52)
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(And you better have really good knee joints & muscles too)
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fenglishrussia.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F11%2F00031t28.jpg&hash=e36d3f5163732c120f93f65a643b1c34)
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Holy sh*t! I think a complete lack of imagination would be essential too [;D]
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gob smacked
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however i reckon the problem lies not in the expression of the artist but the limatation we have in expressing our selves
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there are people, poets and writers capable of writing, such silken proses that leave white hot lines and scares across the imagination, yet i am incapable of writing a proper sentence
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oh and hows the bike buddy
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Okay :)
And yeah, words are strange things, like artists too :)
He would have a future in Paris that one, don't you think?
I was there once, it's a nice town, with a lot of artistic freedom.
And he's quite expressive..
-
Okay, I've always thought that life in the military all to soon would kill off the happy little civilian in me, instead making me a man, proud to be so too, ah, possibly. .? But, I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one failing in this..
==
Skippy’s List: The 213 things Skippy is no longer allowed to do in the U.S. Army
A quick note:
I don’t mind if you want to quote a few items from my list of your site. But please do not copy the list in it’s entirety.
Explanations of these events:
a) I did myself, and either got in trouble or commended. (I had a Major shake my hand for the piss bottle thing, for instance.)
b) I witnessed another soldier do it. (Like the Sergeant we had, that basically went insane, and crucified some dead mice.)
c) Was spontaneously informed I was not allowed to do. (Like start a porn studio.)
d) Was the result of a clarification of the above. (“What about especially patriotic porn?”)
e) I was just minding my own business, when something happened. (“Schwarz…what is *that*?” said the Sgt, as he pointed to the back of my car? “Um….a rubber sheep…I can explain why that’s there….”)
To explain how I’ve stayed out of jail/alive/not beaten up too badly….. I’m funny, so they let me live.
The 213 Things….
1. Not allowed to watch Southpark when I’m supposed to be working.
2. My proper military title is “Specialist Schwarz” not “Princess Anastasia”.
3. Not allowed to threaten anyone with black magic.
4. Not allowed to challenge anyone’s disbelief of black magic by asking for hair.
5. Not allowed to get silicone breast implants.
6. Not allowed to play “Pulp Fiction” with a suction-cup dart pistol and any officer.
7. Not allowed to add “In accordance with the prophesy” to the end of answers I give to a question an officer asks me.
8. Not allowed to add pictures of officers I don’t like to War Criminal posters.
9. Not allowed to title any product “Get Over it”.
10. Not allowed to purchase anyone’s soul on government time.
11. Not allowed to join the Communist Party.
12. Not allowed to join any militia.
13. Not allowed to form any militia.
14. Not allowed out of my office when the president visited Sarajevo.
15. Not allowed to train adopted stray dogs to “Sic Brass!”
16. Must get a haircut even if it tampers with my “Samson like powers”.
17. God may not contradict any of my orders.
18. May no longer perform my now (in)famous “Barbie Girl Dance” while on duty.
19. May not call any officers immoral, untrustworthy, lying, slime, even if I’m right.
20. Must not taunt the French any more.
21. Must attempt to not antagonize SAS.
22. Must never call an SAS a “ [:I]”.
23. Must never ask anyone who outranks me if they’ve been smoking crack.
24. Must not tell any officer that I am smarter than they are, especially if it’s true.
25. Never confuse a Dutch soldier for a French one.
26. Never tell a German soldier that “We kicked your ass in World War 2!”
27. Don’t tell Princess Di jokes in front of the paras (British Airborne).
28. Don’t take the batteries out of the other soldiers alarm clocks (Even if they do hit snooze about forty times).
29. The Irish MPs are not after “Me frosted lucky charms”.
30. Not allowed to wake an Non-Commissioned Officer by repeatedly banging on the head with a bag of trash.
31. Not allowed to let sock puppets take responsibility for any of my actions.
32. Not allowed to let sock puppets take command of my post.
33. Not allowed to chew gum at formation, unless I brought enough for everybody.
34. (Next day) Not allowed to chew gum at formation even if I *did* bring enough for everybody.
35. Not allowed to sing “High Speed Dirt” by Megadeth during airborne operations. (“See the earth below/Soon to make a crater/Blue sky, black death, I’m off to meet my maker”)
36. Can’t have flashbacks to wars I was not in. (The Spanish-American War isn’t over).
37. Our medic is called “Sgt Larwasa”, not “Dr. Feelgood”.
38. Our supply Sgt is “Sgt Watkins” not “Sugar Daddy”.
39. Not allowed to ask for the day off due to religious purposes, on the basis that the world is going to end, more than once.
40. I do not have super-powers.
41. “Keep on Trucking” is *not* a psychological warfare message.
42. Not allowed to attempt to appeal to mankind’s baser instincts in recruitment posters.
43. Camouflage body paint is not a uniform.
44. I am not the atheist chaplain.
45. I am not allowed to “Go to Bragg boulevard and shake daddy’s little money maker for twenties stuffed into my undies”.
46. I am not authorized to fire officers.
47. I am not a citizen of Texas, and those other, forty-nine, lesser states.
48. I may not use public masturbation as a tool to demonstrate a flaw in a command decision.
49. Not allowed to trade military equipment for “magic beans”.
50. Not allowed to sell magic beans during duty hours.
51. Not allowed to quote “Dr Seuss” on military operations.
52. Not allowed to yell “Take that Cobra” at the rifle range.
53. Not allowed to quote “Full Metal Jacket “ at the rifle range.
54. “Napalm sticks to kids” is *not* a motivational phrase.
55. An order to “Put Kiwi on my boots” does *not* involve fruit.
56. An order to “Make my Boots black and shiny” does not involve electrical tape.
57. The proper response to a lawful order is not “Why?”
58. The following words and phrases may not be used in a cadence- Budding sexuality, necrophilia, I hate everyone in this formation and wish they were dead, sexual lubrication, black earth mother, all Marines are latent homosexuals, Tantric yoga, Gotterdammerung, Korean hooker, Eskimo Nell, we’ve all got jackboots now, **** puppy, or any references to squid.
59. May not make posters depicting the leadership failings of my chain of command.
60. “The Giant Space Ants” are not at the top of my chain of command.
==
There are more, but as one have to bow to Skippy's wish and as I don't want him to make that black voodoo on me ( I might have left prints visiting) I will have to direct you to his Site for the rest of them..
A m** lapse of vision (http://skippyslist.com/list/)
===
Okay Skippy, just a few more, pleasee..
NOo0o, Don't do that voodo that you do, so well.
Skippy: Are we awake?
Yoron: We're not sure. Are we... black?
Skippy: Yes, we are.
Yoron: Then we're awake... but we're very puzzled.
Ahem
==
61. If one soldier has a 2nd Lt bar on his uniform, and I have an E-4 on mine It means he outranks me. It does not mean “I have been promoted three more times than you”.
62. It is better to beg forgiveness than to ask permission, no longer applies to Specialist Schwarz.
63. Command decisions do *not* need to be ratified by a 2/3 majority.
64. Inflatable novelties do *not* entitle me to BAQ or Separation pay.
65. There are no evil clowns living under my bed.
66. There is no “Anti-Mime” campaign in Bosnia.
67. I am not the Psychological Warfare Mascot.
68. I may not line my helmet with tin foil to “Block out the space mind control lasers”.
69. May not pretend to be a fascist stormtrooper, while on duty.
70. I am not authorized to prescribe any form of medication.
71. I must not flaunt my deviances in front of my chain of command.
72. May not wear gimp mask while on duty.
73. No military functions are to be performed “Skyclad”.
74. Woad is not camouflage makeup.
75. May not conduct psychological experiments on my chain of command.
76. “Teddy Bear, Teddy bear, turn around” is *not* a cadence.
77. The MP checkpoint is not an Imperial Stormtrooper roadblock, so I should not tell them “You don’t need to see my identification, these are not the droids you are looking for.”
78. I may not call block my chain of command.
79. I am neither the king nor queen of cheese.
80. Not allowed to wear a dress to any army functions.
81. May not bring a drag queen to the battalion formal dance.
82. May not form any press gangs.
83. Must not start any SITREP (Situation Report) with “I recently had an experience I just had to write you about….”
84. Must not use military vehicles to “Squish” things.
85. Not allowed to make any Psychological Warfare products depicting the infamous Ft. Bragg sniper incident.
86. May not challenge anyone in my chain of command to the “field of honor”.
87. If the thought of something makes me giggle for longer than 15 seconds, I am to assume that I am not allowed to do it.
88. Must not refer to 1st Sgt as “Mom”.
89. Must not refer to the Commander as “Dad”.
90. Inflatable sheep do *not* need to be displayed during a room inspection.
91. I am not authorized to initiate Jihad.
92. When asked to give a few words at a military ceremony “Romper Bomper Stomper Boo” is probably not appropriate.
93. Nerve gas is not funny.
94. Crucifixes do not ward off officers, and I should not test that.
95. I am not in need of a more suitable host body.
96. “Redneck Zombies” is not a military training aid.
97. Gozer does not dwell in my refrigerator.
98. The proper response to a chemical weapon attack is not “Tell my chain of command what I really think about them, and then poke holes in their masks.”
99. A smiley face is not used to mark a minefield.
100. Claymore mines are not filled with yummy candy, and it is wrong to tell new soldiers that they are.
===
There are 113 left at Skippy's site, and I better stop reading them.
I'm already getting ideas...
A m** lapse of vision (http://skippyslist.com/list/)
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And this one, for those that like me all to late realized that they would have been awesome pilots, although in this particular case, perhaps the pilots bestest friend, sort of? And as you can see it's a lovely aircraft, all of them in fact. With the most amazing pilots you ever will meet steering them. My kind of air force I have to say :)
211th Sqn CZAF 2009 calendar. (http://cencio4.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/211-squadron-kalendar-new.pdf)
May they always make the softest of landings.
And if you can find me the calendar for 2010 I'll be you forever grateful..
-
So you don't know the size of things?
Well, lucky for you then that this, ah, guy? Have made a flash explaining it all, except towels though? I didn't see any towel there? Wanna travel, grow? Come take a trip with me. (http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/525347)
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You know, sometimes life can be hard.
Really really hard, then it might help to try to remember that feeling you had when you was young. To go back and search for that feeling that everything is possible, every day was new and fresh and you just knew that life was there for you.
This kid might help you remember :)
Blind? Who ?? Me? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c49dS76KhGc)
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That's amazing!
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Why we all look up to Pigeons.
===
[ Invalid Attachment ]
=
And For those of you sinning to much..
====
[ Invalid Attachment ]
Now go, and sin no more.
==
.
(It's always good to have one in reserve. Just in case.)
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Now this link is sort of serious. And not too fun either.
It's all about corruption.
Human corruption.
It can happen to us all, not this serious hopefully. But in other, more limited, circumstances we all are susceptible to it. And they comes in many forms, but to me they are all about the same thing, corruption of humanity and all that are good in us. The objectification of others to something less than human. And therefore open for manipulations, going all the way to killing for fun. If you don't like the link I can understand it, but it is still a good one, and for a good purpose.
Wiki Leaks (http://wikileaks.org/)
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Welcome to The museum of unworkable devices. (http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/unwork.htm) :)
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Welcome to The museum of unworkable devices. (http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/unwork.htm) :)
He he he! Excellent site Yoron.
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Just want to share this all time pearl by Mark Twain with you. Reading it always make me smile.
==
Title: The How I Edited An Agricultural Paper
Author: Mark Twain.
I did not take temporary editorship of an agricultural paper without misgivings. Neither would a landsman take command of a ship without misgivings. But I was in circumstances that made the salary an object. The regular editor of the paper was going off for a holiday, and I accepted the terms he offered, and took his place.
The sensation of being at work again was luxurious, and I wrought all the week with unflagging pleasure. We went to press, and I waited a day with some solicitude to see whether my effort was going to attract any notice. As I left the office, toward sundown, a group of men and boys at the foot of the stairs dispersed with one impulse, and gave me passageway, and I heard one or two of them say: "That's him!" I was naturally pleased by this incident. The next morning I found a similar group at the foot of the stairs, and scattering couples and individuals standing here and there in the street and over the way, watching me with interest. The group separated and fell back as I approached, and I heard a man say, "Look at his eye!" I pretended not to observe the notice I was attracting, but secretly I was pleased with it, and was purposing to write an account of it to my aunt. I went up the short flight of stairs, and heard cheery voices and a ringing laugh as I drew near the door, which I opened, and caught a glimpse of two young rural-looking men, whose faces blanched and lengthened when they saw me, and then they both plunged through the window with a great crash. I was surprised.
In about half an hour an old gentleman, with a flowing beard and a fine but rather austere face, entered, and sat down at my invitation. He seemed to have something on his mind. He took off his hat and set it on the floor, and got out of it a red silk handkerchief and a copy of our paper.
He put the paper on his lap, and while he polished his spectacles with his handkerchief he said, "Are you the new editor?"
I said I was.
"Have you ever edited an agricultural paper before?"
"No," I said; "this is my first attempt."
"Very likely. Have you had any experience in agriculture practically?"
"No; I believe I have not."
"Some instinct told me so," said the old gentleman, putting on his spectacles, and looking over them at me with asperity, while he folded his paper into a convenient shape. "I wish to read you what must have made me have that instinct. It was this editorial. Listen, and see if it was you that wrote it:
"'Turnips should never be pulled, it injures them. It is much better to send a boy up and let him shake the tree.'
"Now, what do you think of that? for I really suppose you wrote it?"
"Think of it? Why, I think it is good. I think it is sense. I have no doubt that every year millions and millions of bushels of turnips are spoiled in this township alone by being pulled in a half-ripe condition, when, if they had sent a boy up to shake the tree--"
"Shake your grandmother! Turnips don't grow on trees!"
"Oh, they don't, don't they? Well, who said they did? The language was intended to be figurative, wholly figurative. Anybody that knows anything will know that I meant that the boy should shake the vine."
Then this old person got up and tore his paper all into small shreds, and stamped on them, and broke several things with his cane, and said I did not know as much as a cow; and then went--out and banged the door after him, and, in short, acted in such a way that I fancied he was displeased about something. But not knowing what the trouble was, I could not be any help to him.
Pretty soon after this a long, cadaverous creature, with lanky locks hanging down to his shoulders, and a week's stubble bristling from the hills and valleys of his face, darted within the door, and halted, motionless, with finger on lip, and head and body bent in listening attitude. No sound was heard.
Still he listened. No sound. Then he turned the key in the door, and came elaborately tiptoeing toward me till he was within long reaching distance of me, when he stopped and, after scanning my face with intense interest for a while, drew a folded copy of our paper from his bosom, and said:
"There, you wrote that. Read it to me--quick! Relieve me. I suffer."
I read as follows; and as the sentences fell from my lips I could see the relief come, I could see the drawn muscles relax, and the anxiety go out of the face, and rest and peace steal over the features like the merciful moonlight over a desolate landscape:
The guano is a fine bird, but great care is necessary in rearing it. It should not be imported earlier than June or later than September. In the winter it should be kept in a warm place, where it can hatch out its young.
It is evident that we are to have a backward season for grain. Therefore it will be well for the farmer to begin setting out his corn-stalks and planting his buckwheat cakes in July instead of August.
Concerning the pumpkin. This berry is a favorite with the natives of the interior of New England, who prefer it to the gooseberry for the making of fruit-cake, and who likewise give it the preference over the raspberry for feeding cows, as being more filling and fully as satisfying. The pumpkin is the only esculent of the orange family that will thrive in the North, except the gourd and one or two varieties of the squash. But the custom of planting it in the front yard with the shrubbery is fast going out of vogue, for it is now generally conceded that, the pumpkin as a shade tree is a failure.
Now, as the warm weather approaches, and the ganders begin to spawn--
The excited listener sprang toward me to shake hands, and said:
"There, there--that will do. I know I am all right now, because you have read it just as I did, word, for word. But, stranger, when I first read it this morning, I said to myself, I never, never believed it before, notwithstanding my friends kept me under watch so strict, but now I believe I am crazy; and with that I fetched a howl that you might have heard two miles, and started out to kill somebody--because, you know, I knew it would come to that sooner or later, and so I might as well begin. I read one of them paragraphs over again, so as to be certain, and then I burned my house down and started. I have crippled several people, and have got one fellow up a tree, where I can get him if I want him. But I thought I would call in here as I passed along and make the thing perfectly certain; and now it is certain, and I tell you it is lucky for the chap that is in the tree. I should have killed him sure, as I went back. Good-by, sir, good-by; you have taken a great load off my mind. My reason has stood the strain of one of your agricultural articles, and I know that nothing can ever unseat it now. Good-by, sir."
I felt a little uncomfortable about the cripplings and arsons this person had been entertaining himself with, for I could not help feeling remotely accessory to them. But these thoughts were quickly banished, for the regular editor walked in! [I thought to myself, Now if you had gone to Egypt as I recommended you to, I might have had a chance to get my hand in; but you wouldn't do it, and here you are. I sort of expected you.]
The editor was looking sad and perplexed and dejected.
He surveyed the wreck which that old rioter and those two young farmers had made, and then said "This is a sad business--a very sad business. There is the mucilage-bottle broken, and six panes of glass, and a spittoon, and two candlesticks. But that is not the worst. The reputation of the paper is injured--and permanently, I fear. True, there never was such a call for the paper before, and it never sold such a large edition or soared to such celebrity; but does one want to be famous for lunacy, and prosper upon the infirmities of his mind? My friend, as I am an honest man, the street out here is full of people, and others are roosting on the fences, waiting to get a glimpse of you, because they think you are crazy. And well they might after reading your editorials. They are a disgrace to journalism. Why, what put it into your head that you could edit a paper of this nature? You do not seem to know the first rudiments of agriculture. You speak of a furrow and a harrow as being the same thing; you talk of the moulting season for cows; and you recommend the domestication of the pole-cat on account of its playfulness and its excellence as a ratter! Your remark that clams will lie quiet if music be played to them was superfluous--entirely superfluous. Nothing disturbs clams. Clams always lie quiet. Clams care nothing whatever about music. Ah, heavens and earth, friend! if you had made the acquiring of ignorance the study of your life, you could not have graduated with higher honor than you could to-day. I never saw anything like it. Your observation that the horse-chestnut as an article of commerce is steadily gaining in favor is simply calculated to destroy this journal. I want you to throw up your situation and go. I want no more holiday--I could not enjoy it if I had it. Certainly not with you in my chair. I would always stand in dread of what you might be going to recommend next. It makes me lose all patience every time I think of your discussing oyster-beds under the head of 'Landscape Gardening.' I want you to go. Nothing on earth could persuade me to take another holiday. Oh! why didn't you tell me you didn't know anything about agriculture?"
"Tell you, you corn-stalk, you cabbage, you son of a cauliflower? It's the first time I ever heard such an unfeeling remark. I tell you I have been in the editorial business going on fourteen years, and it is the first time I ever heard of a man's having to know anything in order to edit a newspaper. You turnip! Who write the dramatic critiques for the second-rate papers? Why, a parcel of promoted shoemakers and apprentice apothecaries, who know just as much about good acting as I do about good farming and no more. Who review the books? People who never wrote one. Who do up the heavy leaders on finance? Parties who have had the largest opportunities for knowing nothing about it. Who criticize the Indian campaigns? Gentlemen who do not know a war-whoop from a wigwam, and who never have had to run a foot-race with a tomahawk, or pluck arrows out of the several members of their families to build the evening camp-fire with. Who write the temperance appeals, and clamor about the flowing bowl? Folks who will never draw another sober breath till they do it in the grave. Who edit the agricultural papers, you--yam? Men, as a general thing, who fail in the poetry line, yellow-colored novel line, sensation, drama line, city-editor line, and finally fall back on agriculture as a temporary reprieve from the poorhouse. You try to tell me anything about the newspaper business! Sir, I have been through it from Alpha to Omaha, and I tell you that the less a man knows the bigger the noise he makes and the higher the salary he commands. Heaven knows if I had but been ignorant instead of cultivated, and impudent instead of diffident, I could have made a name for myself in this cold, selfish world. I take my leave, sir. Since I have been treated as you have treated me, I am perfectly willing to go. But I have done my duty. I have fulfilled my contract as far as I was permitted to do it. I said I could make your paper of interest to all classes--and I have. I said I could run your circulation up to twenty thousand copies, and if I had had two more weeks I'd have done it. And I'd have given you the best class of readers that ever an agricultural paper had--not a farmer in it, nor a solitary individual who could tell a watermelon-tree from a peach-vine to save his life. You are the loser by this rupture, not me, Pie-plant. Adios."
I then left.
-THE END-
[Clemens] Mark Twain's short story: The How I Edited An Agricultural Paper
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So how about it?
Do you believe in witchcraft?
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhomepage.ntlworld.com%2Fcurly.johnson%2Fimages%2Fwitchy-lighten.gif&hash=928194c1bf18088f73387de5e8217c04)
Well, I thought the idea of evil witches was dead since long ago.
But it seems I was wrong.
Read this please. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fawza_Falih)
and, if you don't believe in them, why not sign the petition too? (http://www.petitiononline.com/AIDFAWZA/petition.html)
It may be to late for her, but maybe, it will help the next 'witch'?
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"Something is rotten in the state of Denmark."
Now, if it were up to me, there might be quite a few more impotent folks.
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?
[ Invalid Attachment ]
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Ready for lift off?
Where ever did you find that one Geezer :)
Could it be Mad Max's girlfriend?
Minnie the muse?
==
Lotto. The biggest risk of becoming a millionaire (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tfVrighNgs&feature=related)
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It's a food truck in Seattle that specializes in pork. The license plate is actually "SOMEPIG".
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Aha, a porc-upine then?
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I'm bit surprised they actually let it on the roads. Can you imagine your reaction when you see it heading down the road in the opposite direction?
"WT* was that???!!!. Woops. Oh crap!" Crash, tinkle, tinkle.
Here is its web site http://www.maximus-minimus.com/
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::))
Can't but agree :)
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this will probably lead to Martin weighing and telling me how unhealtly it is; but I really like the sound of their sandwiches as well. You gotta love any food shop that has on its menu
"For extra heat, ask us to add some Hurt - no charge."
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:)
Anyone read about Wiki Leaks founder Julian Assange being suspected for 'rape'?
Come on, this is embarrassing to read for me as an 'informed citizen'. But worst of all, we in Sweden don't seem to get the right info? Had to go to outside Oh, is that so? (http://techcrunch.com/2010/09/06/can-wikileaks-afford-to-back-the-undiplomatic-julian-assange/) to find out what it all was about.
But it was pretty clear seeing that he first was accused then freed from the accusations and then accused again that it was a weird case. So I've been thinking of checking it up but forgot all about it until today. What really stinks about it is that I'm sure most Swedes would more or less laugh about it if they knew, they would get a little pi*ed off with him, but no more than that. So he's been plain stupid, a Aussie Alpha Male believing his ingenious genes needed to save the world huh? :)
Aussie for sure :) but no worse than a lot of Swedish guys wanting sex on their terms, for whatever reason. Sh*.. Looking at this there's no rape involved. So why do the Judges here first free him and then take it up again. And considering that it seems that Wiki leaks Servers are situated in Sweden?
Why doesn't the Swedish public get to read the facts? Julian Assange calls it a 'smear campaign', and yeah, possibly it is. But to me, if so, it seems firstly to be directed against us Swedes by our own papers, no less, as we only get a lot of really bad journalism, without giving us the facts, creating really bad uninformed guesses from the public..
We recently had a case with a fourteen years old runaway from a fosterhome being used and reused by, what was it? Ten guys? There the newspapers had no problem with describing the facts, having a ball? But in this case? Our Swedish 'papers' won't??
Why, because they are 'protecting' him??
Give me a break, will'ya.. :)
This one stinks and that second judge refusing to make a case of it seems to have been correct. But then they restarted the case again? Making it look serious.. Calling it a 'rape' makes most horny young guys 'rapists' close to the edge too, especially while young and eager. :)
Never been without that **? Did that stop you? Really? A most conscientious decision, made I'm sure with considerable effort. But most young, and some older guys too, on the edge of that **? Well, do I have to spell it out? Maybe the girls were bought, maybe not? Maybe they just got pi**ed off? With all right I agree, but acting as they did they sure got themselves into a worse mess than they thought. Also it more reminds me more of the American way to solve a 'problem' by taking it all to court than the Swedish way. And from a conspiracy angle I would say that it's enough with one of the girls getting approached by some 'concerned friend' for this one to get blown up.
It's a strange one.
As for this "But with that openness comes also some fairly high expectations about how you handle yourself. Having worked in Sweden myself and knowing plenty of Swedes, I know that they would think Assange’s action to be extremely arrogant. People there rarely behave like Assange, and his alleged behaviour is quite frowned upon. "
Sure, but so would most people I think. It's not cool, and he's been plain stupid, and playing into the hands of those wanting to make the most of it too. As for no Swedes being able to do the same? BS* It can happen everywhere when the hormones gets on overdrive, and a lot of girls allows it too, although regretting their decision later..
Swedes are not worldwide champions on 'male morale', although we do respect our girls and try to act equal. So as a Swede..
Bad bad bad Julian.
But considering the way the papers treat this case?
Worse worse worse Papers ::))
===
And as for "And incredibly, Assange has told a a Swedish newspaper that he was “losing confidence in the Swedish justice system” as a result of the investigation. This is the opposite of diplomatic – this is the very country that has shepherded him and his organisation with its long tradition of freedom of the press and where he is trying to obtain a residency permit."
Considering the choices made?
So do I..
Btw: " Assange refused an STD test asked by the women."
Wonder what the papers would have done of that, if he had agreed and those 'girls' had leaked it to the press? "WIKI LEAKS FOUNDER FORCED TO MAKE A STD TEST.. "I do not have STD says Wiki Leaks Founder"
:::)))
Ahh, gotta love it, if it really was a 'smear campaign' it would have worked any which way, especially considering the quality of journalism seen by the Swedish papers.. But I agree, he's not to smart. Doesn't mean that Wiki Leaks are stupid, or that his intentions are less than idealistic, just that he's as fallible as any of us. How did that saying go “He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone.." ?
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Try this for a few pics that are art. http://www.binscorner.com/pages/s/spectacular-auto-parts-art-amazing.html
Even a picture of our dear Sheepie in there as well.....
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Very nice Sean :)
Just looked at the net.
Julian Assange's Lawyer Stephens Says U.K., Not Sweden, Wanted Bail Appeal (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-12-16/julian-assange-lawyer-stephens-says-u-k-not-sweden-wanted-bail-appeal.html)
And here is my view of it.
Okay been reading about Julian Assange in our Swedish papers. So what went wrong. Is he a rapist, and does that mean that the organization too is incriminated by his behaviour with the ladies?
1. If he gets extradited to Sweden then possibly he can get extradited to USA too.
2. Although not on the same charges. USA will then use diffuse formulations about leaking information threatening the internal security of their own, as well as their ’allied forces’.
3. So tell me, why should he trust Sweden? Under Olof Palme the country actually had ‘a own view’ making us remarkably unpopular in some places. But since his death, and the new ‘grey Bureaucracy’ took over, we have became a extremely bland Nation.
4. The institutions making us seem ‘profiled’ and ‘democratic’ and making our own ‘democratic way’ were mostly created at that same time as we actually had our own views, not with our current right wing government, and that includes most that I know, from SIPRI to ?? Take your pick there. And as far as our social democratic party goes? They know that they are ‘dead weight’ those days, and worst of all, somehow I think that they don’t care either?
5. So, those two girls making the charges? Were they paid to do it? No, I don’t think so, but they both seem to embrace conservative values. ‘Law and order’, which makes them easy prey for people wanting to blow Julian out of the waters. Just think Palin, to see the kind of personal ideology I believe them to represent.
6. So, is he a rapist? Well, according to what I know? He’s a truly incredibly thick-headed Aussie, bringing his ideals of what women ‘is’ with him to Sweden. And well here, associating with just the wrong kind of persons. Those that, while feeling sympathetic to his ‘emotional cause’, still embrace values of what ‘law and order’ really should be. Where what’s good for the ‘Nation’, whatever that may mean at the moment, also ‘is good for you’.
7. And now I see a ‘smear campaign’ aimed to make you forget all what wiki-leaks was thought to be about. It kind of smells, stinks even. And, as those ‘ideals’ of information seems to have become Sweden’s too? What does it says about our independent ‘journalism’?
He should definitely resign from his post and present his own view of what happened. His quiet talks against him, hurting Wiki-leaks irrevocably. His advisors must be the sorriest bunch of **-heads known to humanity if they can’t see that. And himself? Don’t know, it seems that the same attitude that created Wiki leaks, a stubborn feeling of what was ‘humanitarian rights’ have became a, just as stubborn, feeling of being ‘unjustly accused’. Grow up Julian.
What would be really interesting is if this behaviour was known, and if there were some ‘behaviouristicly inclined’ preparation for it, like a ‘just in case’ scenario and how to use it? If so we see a new technique introduced here. One in where you protesting better make sure that you are ‘lily-white’ before opening that ‘big mouth’ of yours, as you will be ‘analyzed’ down to your underwear by anonymous ‘think-tanks’ , hidden in the vaults. That as you all will seem to be aiming for the ‘Presidency’ when speaking up for what you believe.
And as for the Sweden I thought I grew up in? Don’t know. What we have seem to be a mini-conception of a ‘United States of Sweden’, only without the rights to set things straight, like suing that company for a billion to prove it wrong. Then again, people mostly get what they are aiming for someone told me.
So does that mean I think Muslim ‘governments’ are any better? No way, most are medieval in the worst sense of the word, the best of them maybe defined as ‘Enlightened Monarchy’s/ Democracies’ as I see it. But we never fought those governments, did we? We used our, and theirs, greed ‘making money’, having no problems with their internal policy, including Saddam, a long time ‘bosom friend’ to the USA. And to fight terrorism we now seem to fall back on our own ‘medieval ways’, including sheer smear campaigns, all for the ‘good of the Nation’ and ‘Internal Security’.
Like Tolkien said when someone asked him about his books similarities to the Second World War.
“The real war does not resemble the legendary war in its process or its conclusion. If it had inspired or directed the development of the legend, then certainly the Ring would have been seized and used against Sauron; he would not have been annihilated but enslaved, and Barad-dûr would not have been destroyed but occupied. Saruman, failing to get possession of the Ring, would in the confusion and treacheries of the time have found in Mordor the missing links in his own researches into Ring-lore, and before long he would have made a Great Ring of his own with which to challenge the self-styled Ruler of Middle-earth. In that conflict both sides would have held hobbits in hatred and contempt: they would not long have survived even as slaves.”
Exchange ‘Hobbits’ for ‘conscience’ and you’ll see what I think he’s talking about. And when not thinking by your self, trusting that you too can differ between right and wrong? The world becomes what you make of it.
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Do you like the Simpson's?
Some unknown, was to me at least, facts. (http://myamazingfact.blogspot.com/2010_12_01_archive.html)
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Take a look here. It's about Julian Assange and I wrote something there too. It really stinks this one. Assange accuser may have ceased co-operating (http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/12/09/rundle-r-pe-case-complainant-has-left-sweden-may-have-ceased-co-operating/#comment-113980) And here is the blog I refer to there Assange Case: Evidence Destroyed Over And Over. (http://bigfatfurrytexan.wordpress.com/2010/12/09/assange-case-evidence-destroyed-over-and-over/)
It's direct translation of the Swedish one, I know, because I was there, reading that one first, then came to this one. It speaks ill for Swedish justice this one. And for the social democratic party that now present themselves as human right destroyers :) And our right wing government can only smile happily I guess. Big Kudos for them in some circles in the States this one. As well as black-painting their main opponent politically.
It's as bad as eating koalas raw :)to lend an Aussie expression.
Kind'aS ux it does.
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I'll probably sue Assange on the grounds that he is deliberately trying to undermine the value of my self-funded pension plan by maliciously manipulating the value of my investments. Unfortunately, I don't have the benefit of a socialist government who seem to be able to "guarantee" that I will never be poor, so I must do what I have to do.
EDIT: Of course, I'm sure Assange has been careful to make sure he has not invested any of his ill gotten gains in American corporations. Clearly, he would never make such an obvious mistake.
EDIT2: It's interesting that the citizens of neutral countries discount the cost of those who gave their lives to protect their neutrality. Despite their avowed neutrality, they seem to think they have a right to influence World affairs.
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Let us put this way Geezer. If Julian is wrong in presenting material as he does then that is a question for the Australian courts. And if America want to hold him responsible they should use that way, also presenting something that supports their view. I'm getting awfully tired about 'secret deals' that stinks myself. Airplanes taking of with humans disappearing in some mountain prison. Is that kind of thing acceptable? If the States want him extradited then they should go about it openly stating exactly why, not using this kind of sh*. There will always be scandals and people not wanting their dirty linen shown. But when caught they shouldn't try trumped up charges of something the guy never did. I know its the American way in some places, as shown by those presidential campaigns with what they call 'mudslinging'.
I have a lot of respect for the American ideals Geezer, and I've been there and like the Country, but it's awesomely big, just as Russia, with place for so many different ideas and ideals. But this way isn't acceptable to me, and if I'm quiet, and you're quiet, and we all are quiet?
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Yoron,
What do you mean by "this way"? You seem to be suggesting that the US is behind the charges that have been brought against him in Sweden. Are you speculating, or is there any evidence to support your theory? Anyway, I'm sure he would get a fair trial in Sweden even if the US is implicated in this somehow.
Also, what's it got to do with Australia? If Assange committed a crime in Sweden, or any other country, he is answerable to the laws of that country.
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Well, I can put it this way. My opinion is that without the wiki-leak site, Julian just being our 'normal' guy, what we see now wouldn't have happened. It would never had taken such proportions even if that girl had been such an a** that some sources imply. And when it comes to the leaks then it is primary USA that finds him a sort of 'cyber terrorist', or as your vice president expressed it, a ‘hi tech terrorist’. As for if it's USA putting pressure? Don't think they need to do it, not in Sweden. We seem quite satisfied being a western nation leaving our neutrality policy for joining the NATO umbrella.
So, no Geezer, I think we have some people here that are all to happy to guess what will 'fit' the situation, and are trying to make it come true all they can. Like the first judge throwing the case out but then a second one jumping in and reopening it. And now having Julian treated as some full time rapist?
As for the American reaction I can understand it, but it should go through the right authorities. Trying to get him through Sweden, if that is the case, speaks of a very weak case. The right way as I see it, is to go through the Australian authorities, isn't they an American ally btw? Sending 'observers' to most wars America has fought if I'm correct. So if the military feel they have a case against Julian I would expect them to present it where he is a citizen, not in Sweden.
But we don't know, not yet. Still, I totally understand Julian's reluctance, not to become a 'guest' of the Swedish courts.
==
As for 'secret deals that stinks'
Well, those aircrafts freighting 'terrorists' to Afghanistan prisons and to other 'private prisons' in the former 'East Europe' landed in Sweden too, well known by our government as I understands it, but all done by mouth of course, nothing written down.
What do they call it, 'deniable circumstances?'
don't remember?
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Then your argument is as much with the Swedish authorities as it is with the US.
Assange is an idiot if he thought he could do what he did without becoming the focus of a huge amount of attention.
Interestingly enough, he is now complaining that he is a victim of information leaks!! Give me a break!
Yes, the US may have done some bad things - what nation has not, but does that justify Assangne in trying to damage the US as much as possible? Who put him on a pedestal? And isn't that the same mentality that terrorists have?
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Yep Geezer, as I see it it's Sweden that have prolonged this situation, maybe by intent, maybe not. But it would be good to see some investigative journalism done by our spineless Swedish newspapers for once, instead of having them grosse mouths with their square jaws inform me what to think.
That USA reacts is understandable. Still, it should be fair play and international law that decides an extradition, not 'who knows who' and 'what can we win by doing this, or this?'
And the Sweden I grew up in is definitely not the Sweden I see today. People have became increasingly materialistic, believing that happiness is money. And missing that we are taking away our Constitutional rights. We have had something called a 'grundlag' that you can translate to 'ground rules' protecting every citizen In Sweden. That one is disappearing bit by bit under those last twenty? years. Nobody seems to understand how much blood that went into writing those laws anymore. Instead we choose the watered versions from EEC that, well, they sux :)
But as I said, people get what they want. So who am I too judge, maybe we want it? History is like a wheel, it seems that there are periods of 'enlightenment' and periods of 'darkness' coming after each other. A linearity in non-linearity we might say :) So I don't know why people stopped caring. You can live the same way you always wanted in a land that throw away its constitution, until things start to heat up. then it will matter if you have one or not.
I'm not sure that Assange was out after USA specifically, the scandal was there, given to him, and he used it. He's probably what they call a Alpha-male :)prone to 'quick decisions', as shown by his bed manners. But I still think his intentions with the site is honorable and worthy of admiration.
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But I still think his intentions with the site is honorable and worthy of admiration.
With the site perhaps, but his decision to publish information that was obtained illegally from the US was an act of anarchy, and anarchists are no different from terrorists. Just because he didn't happen to trip over any specific law does not make his actions morally defensible. The US even asked him not to publish secrets that might put sources in Afganistan at risk, but he went ahead and did it anyway.
He has made a lot of enemies, so he should not be whining that "people are out to get me". Of course they are out to get him. If he showed up at my front door, I'd happily punch him on the nose.
Like they say, "If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen"
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Well, the heat is on, is it not :)
As for why he made the site, well that's what they call a 'whistleblower' site. you have a famous example in New York. Ever seen Serpico? (http://www.p3air.com/2010/will-serpico-maclean-finally-get-new-whistle-blowers-law/) One of my all time favorite movies.
And sometimes reality gets ah, ridiculous :)
How OpenLeaks is Likely to Work. (http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/what_openleaks_is_likely_to_look_like.php?utm_source=Zollie+Labs&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+readwriteweb+%28ReadWriteWeb%29&utm_content=Google+International)
But looking it seems I was right? He's a Alpha male. That can be both a positive and negative thing. You get things done, but not always as you planned.
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It will be interesting to see what happens to him. I'm kinda surprised he didn't just go ahead and get a big target tattooed on his forehead. "Aim Here."
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He's an Aussie Geezer.
They are 'doers' firstly :)
Which I kind'a like.
This one is well written and the comments are interesting Julian Assange and wikileaks (http://www.malcolmturnbull.com.au/blogs/julian-assange-and-wikileaks/)
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They are 'doers' firstly :)
Well, I wouldn't care to generalize about Australians, but I would agree that Assagne is not a "thinker", unless of course we conclude that his brain is anatomically juxtaposed, which seems likely based on the events that took place in Sweden.
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:)
Can't argue with that.
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I know what kind of upstanding citizens we have here.
So it's probably ridiculous to ask, but still. Would you dare, a whole night, alone? ..here.. (http://www.therealwaverlyhills.com/)
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Searched for some stuff.
Got this answer :)
======================================
Error 404
Page not found
Sorry
The requested document does not live here anymore.
I tried everyting.
Even tried multi.
Nothing helped.
I'm really depressed about this.
You see, I'm just a web server...
-- here I am, brain the size of the universe,
trying to serve you a simple web page,
and then it doesn't even exist!
Where does that leave me?!
I mean, I don't even know you.
How should I know what you wanted from me?
You honestly think I can *guess*
what someone I don't even *know*
wants to find here?
*sigh*
Man, I'm so depressed I could just cry.
And then where would we be, I ask you?
It's not pretty when a web server cries.
And where do you get off telling me what to show anyway?
Just because I'm a web server,
and possibly a manic depressive one at that?
Why does that give you the right to tell me what to do?
Huh?
I'm so depressed...
I think I'll crawl off into the trash can and decompose.
I mean, I'm gonna be obsolete in what, two weeks anyway?
What kind of a life is that?
Two effing weeks,
and then I'll be replaced by a .01 release,
that thinks it's God's gift to web servers,
just because it doesn't have some tiddly little
security hole with its HTTP POST implementation, or something.
I'm really sorry to burden you with all this,
I mean, it's not your job to listen to my problems,
and I guess it is my job to go and fetch web pages for you.
But I couldn't get this one.
I'm so sorry.
Believe me!
Maybe I could interest you in another page?
There are a lot out there that are pretty neat, they say,
although none of them were put on *my* server, of course.
Figures, huh?
Everything here is just mind-numbingly stupid.
That makes me depressed too, since I have to serve them,
all day and all night long.
Two weeks of information overload,
and then *pffftt*, consigned to the trash.
What kind of a life is that?
Now, please let me sulk alone.
I'm so depressed.
============================
:)
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Marvin, is that you there................
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An update on Julian Assange. (http://wlcentral.org/node/1015)
Well, it still stinks, even more so if this is true.
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Let me cite this Swedish source "It's important to remember that Julian Assange stayed in Sweden forty days after the first accusation to clear his name. He was iterrogated by the police at that time. Yet he was allowed to leave Sweden double checking it with Marianne Ny through his lawyer.
---
"When Assange had left Sweden (his application for a residence permit was rejected) Ny decided to arrest him in absentia and applied to the Stockholm District Court to confirm her decision. The District Court granted her application and, after appeal, its decision was confirmed by the Svea Court of Appeal. However, even before the Court of Appeal had had time to examine the appeal, Ny issued a European Arrest Warrant against Assange."
--
Less well known is that this international arrest warrant was issued by M. Ny almost immediately after he had left Sweden, in his 'absence'."
==
Here you have a Google translation of an intern Swedish discussion about Julian Assange and the way our Swedish Justice system seemed to have worked. Amongst the comments is the one that two very competent Judges, with the first one (freeing Assange from the 'rape' accusations) being the one 'cleaning up' another recent Justice scandal disagreeing on the same grounds, and from the exact same documentation, as the second judge, now calling it 'rape', a serious crime that leads to prison. It's no little matter of difference here. A prison sentence or no sentence at all except, for those, possibly, even creating false accusations against him.
"Let us, however, for the sake of argument assume that there are grounds for rape suspect. As two highly qualified prosecutors can make so radically different interpretations, the reason for the crime should reasonably be of a insecure, weak nature, that means, not a rape. And for such a one an arrest warrant, or an EAW can not be used. A necessary condition for such, according to prosecutor himself, is that the reasons have to be serious (rape). That the non-existent grounds of suspicion against Assange and the rape accusation suddenly becomes justifiable, just by changing the prosecutors, seems like magic of the higher school. No explanations necessary apparently. The basis for the considerations being confidential for the district court, as well as for the Court of Appeal's. So we have no insight into the basis for the dramatic arrest warrant."
Here's the Original source. (http://translate.google.com/translate?langpair=auto|en&u=http%3A%2F%2Frogerfjellstrom.wordpress.com%2F2010%2F12%2F21%2Futlamning-av-assange-svenskt-rattsvasen-pa-svartfisketur-2%2F). Yeah I'm lazy, it's a 'Googled English.' but it's still possible to understand most of it I think.
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Hehehe! Anarchy has overtaken the anarchists. (I'm sure they're being funded by the CIA)
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110129/wr_nm/us_wikileaks_exclusive
I'm setting up my own GeezerLeeks site as we speak. (BTW, the ISP is in Wales)
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That marks it as a true revolutionary site Geezer.
I will follow you.
You're on twitter too?
==
I'm sure some of them will 'go commercial' too :)
Equal opportunity calls and all that..
I think I saw the mob creating one, somewhere?
Yep..
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It just gets better and better. Now Assagne is pissed because he has been "out leaked", by the Norwegians no less!!
I wonder if Assange is acting for the "common good", or is he just a nasty little money grubber?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110130/lf_afp/usdiplomacywikileaksnorwaymedia_20110130052025
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Well, smoke and counter-smoke Geezer.
It will surely muddle the waters, especially if they post different angles. And as Die Welt in Germany, Svenska Dagbladet in Sweden and Politiken in Denmark all are right wing papers I'm sure they will.
Whoever thought out this angle did a pretty good job :)
And it will be interesting to watch.
I definitely doubt that those papers and Aftenposten are Wiki leaks 'partners' and if Julian said so it's another not thought through move from his side. As I said, a perfect Alpha male :)
And someone seems to be 'playing him' pretty well.
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Reading up on it.
There is two possibilities here I think, just out of my head. One is eastern 'interests' wanting to embarrass USA, wanting to get their own hands on the documents, put up this wild cheme, to force Julian to deliver the documents to them too, which seems to have happened. Another ill-conceived move from Julian if so.
==
Ah, that build on us not knowing what they really got, if it's the same, or not, as what Wilki leaks have I better add. Otherwise it's a pretty unneeded thing to do, isn't it? But if it was a 'spin', then it was pretty slick.
====
"Novaya Gazeta received unlimited access to the WikiLeaks database, which has a “wide range” of materials, including documents about Politkovskaya’s murder as well as information about Russian politicians’ ties to organized crime, Nadezhda Prusenkova, a Novaya Gazeta spokeswoman, said by phone from Moscow. The newspaper will start releasing materials next month. "
That as I find those papers 'to be or not to be' a primary western concern, and should have been kept here. I don't like the thought of sharing them with the whole world myself :) People will always say stupid things, just remember the fuzz about East Anglia and 'Global Warming', where some loose citations created a major Global warming scandal all over the world. And splendidly brought to you by FSB:s paid hackers.
"The Federal Security Service is (Russian: ФСБ, Федеральная служба безопасности Российской Федерации; Federal'naya sluzhba bezopasnosti Rossiyskoy Federatsii) the main domestic security agency of the Russian Federation and the main successor agency of the Soviet-era Cheka, NKVD and KGB."
The political overtones from sharing info this way put wiki-leaks in the red as I see it.
The other possibility is that it was a Western try for 'damage limitation', using right wing publications to spin their own view of what those documents was talking about. But considering what Wiki leaks now seem to have done I would say that it seem to have backfired badly, if so.
Can't say I'm pleased.
It sux bad time, and if that was Julian's choice, he's way over his head with that one. Doesn't change the way he was 'set up' from the beginning though, and I definitely have seen too many 'players' using those girls, and him, throwing 'mud' on him.
You need to be fair about that.
But now it seems like a situation where all 'sides' forces each other further and further out on the edge, or maybe off it.
==
There is a third possibility though. I've seen some unconfirmed reports that Aftenpostens documents comes from a Swedish paper? Very weird if so, but maybe someone inside Wiki-leaks is using the info for his own, or someone else's purpose? Some peoples stupidity & ego never stops to surprise me, so, why not?
I mean, the scapegoat is already delivered, isn't he? And as he's an Alpha male he will always find it important to look as if he was 'on top of it' whatever it may be. As I said, Alpha males may impress the unwary, as they often do in all public light. But to entrust them with long planning is plain stupidity.
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/usinternetwikileaksassange
Er, didn't this used to be called blackmail?
He's a sad soul, and he has dug such an enormous hole that he really has no idea how to get out of it. Meanwhile, his former colleagues are abandoning him as fast as they possibly can.
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Yeah, if that's a true content it sounds sad Geezer. But that's what people pushing and prodding produce, people believing the worst. If he truly believes that there is assassinations possible he will also believe that he have the right to 'defend' himself and whatever he thinks he's fighting for. As we all would if someone threatened our lives.
And as an alpha male he will build his 'vagnsborg' and there possibly 'fight it out'. And as I guess there are a lot of people wanting to read those documents still he will have a lot of supporters telling him that he is right in doing so, feeding this paranoia. Because, let's face it. It ain't that hard killing someone, it's harder to live in peace.
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Paranoid or not, he better not show up anywhere near here. A lot of people in these parts have backhoes, and they are not afraid to use them [;D] [;D]
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Woops!
[ Invalid Attachment ]
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Sort of snowy I heard :)
Swedish weather huh..
And would that be a megalith stone?
Easter Island is it?
Anyway..
So you WANT TO WIN THE LOTTERY !!! (http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/01/ff_lottery/all/1)
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By a remarkable coincidence, I just happen to have a large number of unused instant lottery tickets available at a heavily discounted price.
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And would that be a megalith stone?
Easter Island is it?
http://www.roadsideamerica.com/set/OVERhenges.html
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I liked the The Georgia Guidestones Gezzer :) Sweetly done.
And now for those of you enjoying, ah, some math? (http://enrichment.it-figures.org/)
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Reading about Manning Julian Assange et al. You know, with governments trying to position themselves for and against wiki-leaks this is getting more and more muddled. Soon you won't be able to tell fact from fiction here. The problem with all 'political' leaks is that the government involved will find it potentially spying, so should people stop leak info about war-crimes? Refuse documentation? What if it had been Russia in Afghanistan instead, would the media had taken the same stance. Would you?
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F_MnYI3_FRbbQ%2FTBoj3rb2GSI%2FAAAAAAAACbw%2Flfbt3cu2nEw%2Fs1600%2Fwikileaks.png&hash=f0186607601521a6b30cddd36a7045d0)
"In 2008, the U.S. Army Counterintelligence Center prepared a classified report (ironically leaked to and published by WikiLeaks) which -- as the NYT put it -- placed WikiLeaks on "the list of the enemies threatening the security of the United States." That Report discussed ways to destroy WikiLeaks' reputation and efficacy, and emphasized creating the impression that leaking to it is unsafe." From here The strange and consequential case of Bradley Manning, Adrian Lamo and WikiLeaks. (http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/06/18/wikileaks)
And it seems they've become prey for others too. Take a look here Palantir's & HBGary's outlining a proposal to Bank of America. (http://blogs.forbes.com/andygreenberg/2011/02/11/palantir-apologizes-for-wikileaks-attack-proposal-cuts-ties-with-hbgary/). And here is the proposal. (http://mirror.wikileaks.info/leak/Palantir_WikiLeaks_Attack_Plan_v6.pdf)
On the surface it seems simple. Depending on where you live, and where your patriotism lies you you will choose a side. But for me it's also about 'freedom of information' Not letting governments and military get away with abusing human rights. You better think carefully about how you want our western community to work before deciding if wiki-leaks are good or bad. That Julian seems rather autocratic is clear, what I think of as a 'Alpha-male', but take a look here Daniel Domscheit-Berg's time as chief programmer and media spokesman. (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/02/10/3135731.htm)
Is it only me that gets a bad smell from this? That one seems far from clear. I would say that it looks like someone trying to make a fast buck, at the same time integrating himself with the 'Powers That Be.' Definitely no one I would trust with a whistle blower site, or any sort of sensitive information. :)
And lastly Bradley Manning (http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2011/02/02-5) Sounds like something from the Gulags that one if true, not what I expect from a western democracy.
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Ever wondered how all those spammers could find you. And those marketing organizations. and ah, who knows?
"By creating a distinctive username—and reusing it on multiple websites—you may be giving online marketers and scammers a simple way to track you. Four researchers from the French National Institute of Computer Science (INRIA) studied over 10 million usernames—collected from public Google profiles, eBay accounts, and several other sources. They found that about half of the usernames used on one site could be linked to another online profile, potentially allowing marketers and scammers to build a more complex picture of the users."
Test you cognomen here. (http://planete.inrialpes.fr/projects/how-unique-are-your-usernames/)
==
"Researchers are exploring ways that the traces of data that people leave on different websites and devices could be combined and used to track them. A 2010 paper showed that the online groups to which people belonged could be used to infer their real identity in 42 percent of cases. Another research team found that more than half of all smart-phone apps leak unique IDs that could be used to track a user's interests and, potentially, their location.
Building profiles of consumers using online information has already become a major industry for marketers as well as cybercriminals. Last year, for example, PatientsLikeMe.com, an online community for patients with life-changing conditions, caught marketing firm Nielsen scraping information from its users' posts."
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Maybe you've already seen it, but if you missed it? Or just want to remind yourself why you manage yourself?
'just fine thank you'.
Three parts.
The Ground Force. Part 1/3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKhfZ3bNqjg&NR=1&feature=fvwp)
==
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So, Julian Assange will be extradited?
I know, we all want to trust in the transparency of our western legal systems. Wouldn't it be terribly embarrassing if we were shown to be lead by elitist je**heads? Instead of legally elected 'servants of the state' protecting each persons right to a legal defense and a proper hearing?
Well, I don't trust the Swedish legal system any more :) They have fallen from our supposedly Swedish olympic heights of competence into the incompetent shadows of Lethe, trudging around like some corrupted maggots festering on what should be the law. Then again, how about the English justice system? Any better? So what do I make of it? Well, it's not my idea of a fair trail at least. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_a_fair_trial) Neither for Assange, nor Manning. They are trying to break down Manning by isolating him 24/7, and Assange in a more subtle way. Building up a storm of accusations without substance. That Swedish courts couldn't have heard Assange under the month he stayed in Sweden, while trying to clear his name is qualified BS. I would say the 'they', whoever that might be, wanted him to leave so that they could work up a case in splendid isolation. And me being a Swede, starting to hate that :)
Sh*, but it's hard to take when you see your legal system breaking down into politics, and ugly politics too. I think this case will become as famous as that of that French guy Alfred Dreyfus. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Dreyfus) And it sux bigtime to me, knowing that Sweden is the instigator of it. Or at least some really well placed Swedes. It stinks.
Now, we all know that western democracies are the sole believers in your right to free speech and thought, don't we? I mean, after all, isn't that what democracy is all about. That we all are the same in eyes of the law? Innocent until proven guilty? I would like to believe this to be true. Otherwise it becomes hard for me to differ our western democracies from those other, you know, the ones we find so questionable.
Okay.
Maybe we should start with what Wikileaks was, and still is.
The war on WikiLeaks: A John Pilger investigation and interview with Julian Assange (http://johnpilger.com/articles/the-war-on-wikileaks-a-john-pilger-investigation-and-interview-with-julian-assange)
Then this too might give us an added insight in the problem of finding information.
1. Army of Fake Social Media Friends to Promote Propaganda. (http://www.pcworld.com/article/220495/army_of_fake_social_media_friends_to_promote_propaganda.html)
How about Sweden then. Well we seem to back up on most of what I thought to be our constitutional rights (Grundlag). The right wing government is slowly adapting it to a very flexible instrument. Not so much protecting individuals, as the government itself it seems. But all of it in the name of protecting us citizens of course :) They deem us to need it, it's good for us, assumedly?
So do we have anything linking any Swedish players to 'foul play'?
Well, I looked around a little, didn't take me that long.
2. Anonymous Thwarts U.S. Business Plot Against Bloggers, Unions, Rights Activists. (http://ferrada-noli.blogspot.com/2011/02/anonymous-stop-us-business-plot-against.html)
3.Karl Rove, Sweden, and the Eight Major Aberrations in the Police Sex Crime Reporting Process in the Assange Case. By Naomi Wolf (http://ferrada-noli.blogspot.com/2011/02/karl-rove-sweden-and-eight-major.html)
4.Fredrik Reinfeldt "the Ronald Reagan of Europe," and Rove. (http://www.chillingmesoftly.com/content/rove-reinfeldt-ny-assange-ardin-and-bodstrom)
5. Billy McCormac, Karl Rove and Fredrik Andersson. AKA Karl Rove and his Swedish henchmen. (http://www.chillingmesoftly.com/content/six-degrees-karl-rove)
6.Karl Rove’s Swedish Connections: The Controversy And The Facts. (http://ferrada-noli.blogspot.com/2011/02/rove-suspected-in-swedish-us-political.html)
7.Does Sweden Inflict Trial by Media against Assange? (http://ferrada-noli.blogspot.com/2011/02/v-behaviorurldefaultvmlo.html)
Well, you might find me biased here, but I don't think I am. I'm just expecting our democracies to hold to the ideals we believe us to stand for. If we can't hold to them when it's becoming 'uncomfortable'?
Do we really stand for them?
Bad taste in my mouth this one.
Last but not least. Bradley Manning Speaks About His Conditions. (http://my.firedoglake.com/blog/2010/12/23/bradley-manning-speaks-about-his-conditions/)
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Do you like to read?
It's a dying breed that reads just for pleasure those days it seems. How about a thread on free books etc that you can download and read? Some are old of course, but they still have their charm.
Like this one. (http://www.gutenberg.org/files/30140/30140-h/30140-h.htm)
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I'm going to be a tiny bit subversive now.
I don't know about you but I price my privacy. I'm getting awfully tired on all and everyone wanting all personal details before I can post, or just read. TNS is blessedly free from that kind of behavior, but most papers in Sweden seems to need your life's history before they will allow you to post, and I'm guessing they've picked up that behavior from sites outside Sweden. That as we are terrific copycats of international trends those days, the more commercial the 'better'.
I'm not saying that you should use it. I've never bothered myself, but it's sort of nice to know that it exist. bug me not. (http://www.bugmenot.com/tutorial.php) I won't vouch for it as I've never tried it, and as it's a 'com' site? Never the less :)
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So, how do you protect your information?
First I want to ask you. How do you want your Internet? Locked up like China want it to be, or France, or any of our 'governments of the people' and governmental institutions, no one excluded in fact. Or do you want to get what you're searching for 'unfiltered', yourself being the judge of what you find good?
There are several answers here. You need to find your own. We don't want hard core criminals to use a free Internet for their own shady business, do we? But if stopping them will stop you too? How is it out in the street? Are they stopped there? Do you trust your police to be there? Would you want your own policeman walking beside you, protecting you, and watching, whatever you do? I don't think so. Most of us accept that life contains a multitude of good and bad, and sometimes it can be hard to see what's what too.
So how do you want your computer? Controlled by unique hardware identifying you on the Internet? One unique number for one unique computer. That was the idea behind IP numbers once, and that is what IP v4 wanted to implement but the Internet grew much too fast, so we invented the opposite instead, namely ways to bind a IP number to ports enabling you to use 'fake IP:s' behind your router, ISP etc. This makes your computer anonymous, more or less, at least harder to track. IP v6 is thought to go back to the original idea, one unique number for each hardware.
You really need to think of this, what do you want? Is the statement 'this is a democracy' a free passport for the government to be allowed to identify and follow your every move? There was one revolution recently made possible to 'time' by the use of SMS. In the Philippines, text messaging helped topple a government in 2001. Now most regimes fearing it has clamped down on SMS. The Mubarak regime clamped down on many forms of communication including the Internet, cell phones and SMS for example.
Tell me, in society where your every move is controlled, even if used only when the government find you breaking whatever laws it use, what do you call such a government?
Democratic?
Free?
Or a dictatorship?
Your choice.
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Let us assume that you don't find the idea of a government able to check your every move the one you treasure most? So, how about commercial interests then? After all, they have a legitimate interest in following your moves, helping them to streamline their production after your interests?:) And if they want to protect their software, why shouldn't it be legitimate to use those unique identifiers? Well, it is, it's only by you buying or not buying those products you can inform them of what the resistance to that sort of idea is.
And the reason? Well, if you were uncomfortable with governments doing it just before? Why do you expect it to be any better with a multinational company, using the same technology? A democratic government is at least expected to answer and listen to you, but, can you expect a multinational cooperation to do the same, and, how will you 'enforce' peoples views if they don't? They can be comfortably listed anywhere on Earth, doing business.
Intel tried to give each of their CPU:s unique identifiers some time ago, but found it very unpopular. Now they are trying again. Intel will implement OTP-generating capability into its 2nd Generation Core 'Sandy Bridge' processors. One called Insider, using hardware protected streaming of specific data to your computer, in essence checking if it's 'allowed'. and the other called Intel Identity Protection Technology (IPT). also there will be a remote control 'kill-switch' for the processor in cooperated, enabling the processor to be stopped in case of theft, primarily thought for laptops. I've never liked switches on my Computer controlled over the Internet myself, but? :) Maybe you do?
"1) Sandy Bridge's killswitch works even without the PC being powered on (over a 3G network)! All future Intel CPU's will be equipped with one.(Your chip could theoretically be compromised and turned off by a would be attacker, though unlikely)
2) Killswitch renders the cpu useless.
3) The new Sandy Bridge have DRM built inside the chip. It cannot be removed through software. As long as you have a Sandy Bridge CPU, you automatically have DRM that can't be removed.
4) DRM is an acronym for Digital Rights Management, a broad term used to describe a number of techniques for restricting the free use and transfer of digital content. DRM is used in a number of media, but is most commonly found in video and music files.
5) Many PC enthusiasts dislike DRM due to the problems associated in the past with software DRM. Many reports of issues with DRM in games, etc. have been reported, and the majority of consumers dislike it.
6) There is a debate about the KillSwitch and some security vulnerabilities. Taken from the 2nd link: "Definitely, this new feature is something to pay attention to, as potential vulnerabilities in the implementation can open the door to new remote attacks, starting with DoS.""
"When Intel launched Sandy Bridge it played up a technology called Intel Insider. This technology, which is not DRM even if it matches the definition, was sold as a way for Hollywood to deliver high definition content securely to PCs. The response was largely along the lines of “Hey Intel, 1999 called and wants its processor identification number back” but the reality was that Intel Insider is very different from the unique identifier in each CPU that Intel introduced then pulled from the Pentium III, even if Intel is staying quiet on the details.
However, while Insider remains mysterious the other technology in the process of being launched by Intel is a bit more transparent. It's Dubbed Intel Identity Protection Technology IPT. That manageability engine (ME), by the way, is on the same silicon as the Core processors' compute and graphics cores. And unlike Intel's vPro client-management technology, IPT is common to all three levels of the 2nd Geneneration processors: the Core i3, i5, and i7; vPro skips the i3. "We've taken the notion of a one-time password that generates a dynamic code every 30 seconds and we've embedded it into the chipset," Gilburg says, "into the [manageability engine] of the 2nd Generation Intel Core and Core vPro. This is brand new technology; Intel is the first to do this."
And finally "Gilburg thinks the number of participating OEMs will snowball. 'This year we're expecting a small subset of the machines hitting the market to have it. Next year it'll be a little more widely available. A year after that I think it'll become more widely pervasive." However, even if you buy a non-IPT-enabled PC before that snowball gets rolling, a simple firmware update can enable the IPT/OTP feature retroactively, should your PC vendor be so inclined.'"
The second and third groups of partygoers – enterprises and consumer websites – are already growing. In addition to Gilburg's examples of eBay and PayPal, Intel's Protected Sites web page lists 145 other sites protected by Symantec's OTP tech, VeriSign Identity Protection (VIP) Authentication Service, which was part of Symantec's $1.3bn acquisition of VeriSign's identity and authentication business last May. Once all those elements are in place – as Gilburg demoed to us – logging into an OTP-protected system is a simple matter of a one-time account setup – opt-in, of course – that provides the PC with a unique ID. After that setup, the Intel ITP technology in the PC's 2nd-gen Core processor negotiates with Symantec or Vasco software at the target website to work its OTP-security mojo.
"So think: 'username/password bad, adding dynamic code good'," Gilburg instructed us. To Gilburg, the need for building a dynamic-code OTP system into consumer PCs is obvious. "There's over 56,000 new phishing sites that go up every month," she says. "And why do they go up? Because they're successful." The rise of social networking is giving nogoodniks more opportunities to wreak havoc at the consumer level, Gilburg says. "It used to be just financial accounts, and people didn't care so much because the liability, in the US, is on the bank. So, yes, you feel violated; yes, it's horrible; but at the end of the day they're going to put that money back. But now, you take over my Facebook account and you send viruses to my thousand closest friends, and then it's your reputation that's damaged, and boy, that hurts a lot."
On the enterprise side, Gilburg cited a recent report by Forrester research – "sponsored by Symantec," she freely offered – that detailed username/password breaches. "Fifty per cent of the three thousand or so companies that they surveyed had admitted to breaches," she said, adding: "The key word there is 'admitted' – probably another 45 per cent actually had them." She also recounted a breach at Twitter's HQ: "About a year ago, Twitter was using Google Apps for all of their corporate application servers, etcetera, and someone hacked the admin account and exposed all of Twitter's financials and business plans. What are they going to do, change their business plans?"
Eventually, Gilburg believes, users will come to expect expanded security. "What we're hoping to create on the consumer side is a notion where users are looking for this protection, and if a site doesn't have it, they might think, 'Well, you know what, I'm going to avoid that site, because my security isn't being taken seriously'." After all, Gilburg says, "Identity theft terrifies people."
And if Intel, Symantec, Vasco, and others can allay some of that terror while making a tidy profit from doing so, well, isn't that the American Way?"
What scares me isn't 'identity theft'. Learning how to use your computer and the Internet it's quite simple to protect yourself from that. But allowing cooperations to build in remote control devices and tracking, that scare the sh* out of me :) and I don't even have anything to hide. How about you? Prepared to share your computer with those having the technology?
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Want to know a extremely simple way to protect your information? Public Key Encryption using open and private 'keys' (secure asymmetric key encryption). In reality uncrackable if you use over 256 bits encryption.
The idea is that every bit double the possibilities. e, g, 1 bit=2 possibilities either one or nul, 2 bit(2x2)=4, 3 bit(2x2x2)=8, so the next will be 8x2=16, then 16x2=32, 23x2=64, 128, 256 (a byte) and doubling. 127 bits are then approximately 1,70141183 × 10^38 possibilities and 256 bits are 1,1579208923731619542357098500869e+77 or 1,15792089 × 10^77.
You can read more about the principles behind Public Key Cryptography here. (http://brianpmearns.com/bpm/pkey_crypto) It can also be used to create virtual encrypted hard discs on your computer. Read more about Virtual hard disks here (http://www.truecrypt.org/docs/) and other encryption software here (http://www.thefreecountry.com/security/encryption.shtml) Go down to the 'Free Public Key Encryption Software' listed. For example "GnuPG is Free Software, it can be freely used, modified and distributed under the terms of the GNU General Public License. Project Gpg4win provides a Windows version of GnuPG. It is nicely integrated into an installer and features several frontends as well as English and German manuals. Project GPGTools provides a Mac OS X version of GnuPG. It is nicely integrated into an installer and features all required tools."
Another simple way to insure it to be harder to crack your hard discs is to use the possibility Windows offer with EFS. "It works by encrypting a file with a bulk symmetric key. It uses a symmetric encryption algorithm because it takes a smaller amount of time to encrypt and decrypt large amounts of data than if an asymmetric key cipher is used." You do that by using 'explorer' and then choose the directory you want to encrypt in XP, although not that good, it will create he** after you wiped your hard disk, before giving it away for example, if someone want to reconstruct your data from it. But for a better virtual H-D use Truecrypts Virtual hard-disk. (http://www.truecrypt.org/docs/)
When it comes to holes in your security the absolute biggest is your Browser. As long as it communicate with the Internet people will have the possibility to exploit you. So what you need to do is to minimize the risks. One simple way is to make sure to not open word and excel documents mailed to you automatically in their respective programs, as all basic code in that document automatically will be run as soon as you open it. In Firefox you check 'options' and then 'Applications' to set what the browser will use to open a application, as a word file with. Then you can choose WordPad for opening 'Word' files, as that one can't run any 'basic code'. Read this one for file-types handling in Firefox. (http://support.mozilla.com/en-US/kb/Managing%20file%20types) You can set the same options in Internet Explorer too I presume (settings/control panel/Internet Opinions, not that I found it looking, or ever have used that one. If you do use it you can get some tips for securing it here. (http://www.fiveanddime.net/secure-internet-explorer-6/) And finally, use some protection will you :) Firefox have some nice Add-ons that are quite useful. 'Addblock plus' and 'NoScript' for example. And a firewall, preferably as good as Zone Alarm, where you explicitly verify every connection the first time. That means that you set your firewall to ask you, and to not connect until you granted access. As you do it you can change that specific setting to 'automatic' which means it will not ask you the next time. Doing so you will learn what it is your computer use, Google if you don't know what it is it want to connect to, and with what 'service'.
Now, encryption is also possible to implement in Hardware. And would be very safe, but I still have to see any corporation using/creating such a chip for our private computers. If a corporation did then that would be the one I bought, guaranteed that it use open source-code for the chip so one could check it for back doors. If one used that between the 'rings' 0-too ??, used to differ what is the inner 'core' of a computer system 'untouchable', and what us users/programs can use/modify the virus makers of all kinds would find it real hard, impossible in fact, to infect that core, as long as the private key was properly restricted. But I don't expect anyone to do it, well, maybe NSA :) or their counterparts.
Anyway, what I've wrote isn't that difficult to implement. If you use a ISP that gives you a dynamic IP, changing every time you go up, then he's using IP bindings to port numbers giving you a automatic first 'hiding'. But as there still is the possibility of following that port number to your PC a firewall is very useful. Here are two nice ones Agnitum Outpost Security Suite Free. 89 MB. (http://download.cnet.com/Agnitum-Outpost-Security-Suite-Free/3000-18510_4-75328020.html?part=dl-88619&subj=dl&tag=button) or ZoneAlarm 44.77MB (Non-Commercial Freeware) (http://www.filehippo.com/download_zonealarm_free/download/72155895e0ed16cdaf1b90789e017a9d/). After installing you can test your security on Internet. Welcome to ShieldsUP. (https://www.grc.com/x/ne.dll?bh0bkyd2) or at Audit my PC. (http://www.auditmypc.com/), or both for all that I know. ShieldsUP is the straightforward one though :) But try to secure your computer before doing it, please. Doing this, and using a free anti-virus, preferably not American as one professor once (KTH) told me that the NSA is said to have back-doors to all American ones, and, as a sober guess, FSB probably have it to its major Russian counterparts, still, after doing so you should be homefree. More or less that is, you also have IPSEC in windows if you want a 'over-course' as we say in Sweden, and a million ways depending on your Linux distribution. If someone really want to get to you though, social engineering will be your major problem. People having/getting physical 'access' to your computer that is :), or getting it illegally.
But then you probably knew all this already.
===
Thinking of it, I better give you some links to what you can do to secure the Widows OS.
Most for Win-XP but I expect you to be able to use most of them in W7 too. Vista ? Maybe, never liked that one anyway. As for the Linux gurus, you know what to do, I hope :). Check this first 10 services to turn off in MS Windows XP. (http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/security/10-services-to-turn-off-in-ms-windows-xp/354) You might also consider turning of remote desktop Help Session Manager in 'services' 'Administrative tools' too, that is if you don't need it. In 'Services' you will find a lot of stuff that gets started at boot to then just lie there using your system resources and opening for hackers. Here's a nice guide How To Turn Off Unnecessary Windows XP Services. (http://www.jasonn.com/turning_off_unnecessary_services_on_windows_xp) But proceed with caution, although the worst that I expect to happen is that you will have to restart windows, in 'safe mode', to then restart whatever 'service' you closed down that caused your 'malfunction'. Never happened to me though, but who knows what you want to play with :) So read the guide before 'clicking away'.
1. Guide to Securing Microsoft Windows XP Systems for IT Professionals: A NIST Security Configuration Checklist (http://csrc.nist.gov/itsec/SP800-68r1.pdf)
2. WindowsXP Tips. (http://www.onecomputerguy.com/windowsxp_tips.htm)
3. A non-exhaustive list of the options available to XP Professional users through the Group Policy editor. (http://www.j79zlr.com/gphome.php)
4. Just for fun, some Windows history. (http://www.onlinecomputertips.com/windows/windows.html)
Yeah, I liked W98, a lot :) and XP is okay too. I'm sure win7 is too, although I've no need for it.
But, Linux rules, it has all the ingredients Windows used to have, active users creating new software, and some truly sweet graphical user interfaces. And as for security, I think Windows still a far way behind what Linus implements in its software core.
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Here here... I love linux!!!!
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Amazing stuff, check it out. (http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=37682.0)
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A favorite of mine. The Wind in the Willows. (http://www.cleavebooks.co.uk/grol/grahame/wind00.htm)
Or, for those finding that taste of mine somewhat childish. Three Men in a Boat by Jerome K. Jerome (http://www.gutenberg.org/files/308/308-h/308-h.htm) A serious philosophical tractate over the futility of, well, ah, everything? You better read it, and get yourself prepared.
They are both about rivers and boats :)
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haha.. I enjoyed the thread so much.
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Thnx, I think both are immortal, sort of :)
(You were talking about the books, right?)
And here I have what we all need. The one thing no household can be without.
Impress your friends, get that trench-coat and be a, man? Woman?
It's a ambiguous subject. The Encyclopedia of Espionage, Intelligence, and Security. (http://www.faqs.org/espionage/) Hmm.
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Got any balloons?
->Help them out. (http://thedailywh.at/2011/03/06/science-experiment-of-the-day-recreating-the-flying-house-from-up/)<-
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It's very bad news, the Tsunami in Japan, and as they have fifty five nuclear reactor plants, and as every nuclear power plant have several reactors, I've heard numbers of over 150 reactors, all in all? Anyway, they will definitely have to take a new look on their security measures. Not that the security they had was bad. Three systems after each other failed to do their job for different reasons. But they live more or less on a volcano, one of the reasons I've heard for why their traditional building technique was so ethereal and light was the risk of earthquakes, The houses was easy to rebuild. Nowadays we go the other way and try to make them as safe as we can instead. But with a earthquake erupting as that one, being of a 8.9-magnitude and with the following tsunami striking northeastern Japan you can never be sure.
=Quote=
The "Ring of Fire" is an arc stretching from New Zealand, along the eastern edge of Asia, north across the Aleutian Islands of Alaska, and south along the coast of North and South America. The Ring of Fire is composed over 75% of the world's active and dormant volcanoes.
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fb%2Fb0%2FMap_plate_tectonics_world.gif&hash=1baf3fa8414a12a3b1fbba75a6f119c2)
"Japan lies at the meeting point of several of the world's major tectonic plates. This means that there is an everpresent threat from a range of natural hazards earthquakes,volcanoes and tsunami. The map shows the Philippine and Pacific Plates which are slowly moving north west towards Japan. As they move north west they slip under the Eurasan and North American Plates When one Plate slips underneath another the movement is called subduction. This whole area is very unstable and earthquakes and volcanic activity are common along both sides of plate boundaries."
This huge ring of volcanic and seismic (earthquake) activity was noticed and described before the invention of the theory of plate tectonics theory. We now know that the Ring of Fire is located at the borders of the Pacific Plate and other major tectonic plates.
Plates are like giant rafts of the earth's surface which often slide next to, collide with, and are forced underneath other plates. Around the Ring of Fire, the Pacific Plate is colliding with and sliding underneath other plates. This process is known as subduction and the volcanically and seismically active area nearby is known as a subduction zone. There is a tremendous amount of energy created by these plates and they easily melt rock into magma, which rises to the surface as lava and forms volcanoes.
Volcanoes are temporary features on the earth's surface and there are currently about 1500 active volcanoes in the world. About ten percent of these are located in the United States.
This is a listing of major volcanic areas in the Ring of Fire:
* In South America the Nazca plate is colliding with the South American plate. This has created the Andes and volcanoes such as Cotopaxi and Azul.
* In Central America, the tiny Cocos plate is crashing into the North American plate and is therefore responsible for the Mexican volcanoes of Popocatepetl and Paricutun (which rose up from a cornfield in 1943 and became a instant mountains).
* Between Northern California and British Columbia, the Pacific, Juan de Fuca, and Gorda plates have built the Cascades and the infamous Mount Saint Helens, which erupted in 1980.
* Alaska's Aleutian Islands are growing as the Pacific plate hits the North American plate. The deep Aleutian Trench has been created at the subduction zone with a maximum depth of 25,194 feet (7679 meters).
* From Russia's Kamchatka Peninsula to Japan, the subduction of the Pacific plate under the Eurasian plate is responsible for Japanese islands and volcanoes (such as Mt. Fuji).
* The final section of the Ring of Fire exists where the Indo-Australian plate subducts under the Pacific plate and has created volcanoes in the New Guinea and Micronesian areas. Near New Zealand, the Pacific Plate slides under the Indo-Australian plate.
==End of quote
"The Japanese Islands belongs to four tectonic plates, that is, the Okhotsk(or North America), the Eurasia(or Amurian), the Pacific, and the Philippine Sea plates (Figure 1). The former two continental plates are colliding in Honshu, the largest island of Japan. The location of the boundary of these plates is still controvertible. Before starting of the continuous GPS observation, most researchers considered that the boundary is the Itoigawa-Shizuoka Tectonic Line(ISTL). However, the deformation revealed by the GEONET suggest that WNW-ESE contraction is localized in the zone from Niigata to Kobe(NKTZ) and that there are no large strain-rate around ISTL except its northern part. Figure 2 shows principle strain rate estimated from GPS displacements from January 1998 to January 2000. The zone where WNW-ESE strain is high extends from Niigata to north along the coast of Sea of Japan. Distribution of dilatation and maximum shear strain shown in Figures 3 and 4 clearly indicate the strain localization crossing central Japan. Therefore, NKTZ is a part of plate boundary between the Okhotsk and Eurasian plates. One important characteristic of the NKTZ is that the high-strain zone is relatively wide, say, ~100km wide, not a sharp plate boundary."" Read more about Japan here. (http://cais.gsi.go.jp/Virtual_GSI/Tectonics/Niigata_Kobe/niigata_kobe.html)
"The Indonesia earthquake was larger -- it was the third-largest in recorded history; the one off the coast of Japan Friday will likely be seventh-largest. But the biggest difference between the two is the level of preparedness. Japan, experts say, is probably the most prepared place in the world for a tsunami."
"There's a reason we use a Japanese word to describe this phenomenon," says Lori Dengler, a seismologist and tsunami expert at Humboldt State University in California. "Because Japan's been hit so many times."
Learn more about it, Japanese reactor safety, and what's happening now here (with Goggle map). (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/2011/03/fears-of-third-explosion-at-nuclear-plant-at-least-10000-believed-dead.html#commentsform)
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A update on Japan.
They are in dire trouble. They have radioactive fuel-rods melting in three reactors.
"Fuel rods at a third nuclear plant in Japan have been fully exposed, raising the risk of a meltdown. There are now reports that there is a fire in reactor Number 4 at the Fukushima reactor. There has been another explosion at the Fukushima reactor. Japanese NHK television reports that the Number 2 reactor has exploded, releasing radiation 10,000 above normal levels. Up to half the fuel rods have been exposed and there are fears that the vessel containing the rods has cracked opening up the possibility that radioactive water is at risk of leaking outside the plant. Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Egano on Tuesday told reporters that "damage appears on the suppression pool" - the bottom part of the container, which contains water used to cool down the reactor and control air pressure.
Water levels have dropped precipitously inside a Japanese nuclear reactor, twice leaving the uranium fuel rods completely exposed and raising the threat of a meltdown, hours after a hydrogen explosion tore through the building housing a different reactor. Water levels were restored after the first decrease, but the rods remained partially exposed late on Monday night, increasing the risk of the spread of radiation and the potential for an eventual meltdown.
The cascading troubles in the Fukushima Dai-ichi plant compounded the immense challenges faced by the Tokyo government, already struggling to send relief to hundreds of thousands of people along the country's quake- and tsunami-ravaged coast where at least 10,000 people are believed to have died. Later, a top Japanese official said the fuel rods in all three of the most troubled nuclear reactors appeared to be melting."
"Some experts would consider that a partial meltdown. Others, though, reserve that term for times when nuclear fuel melts through a reactor's innermost chamber but not through the outer containment shell." This is qualified BS. Radioactive fuel-rods melting are radioactive fuel-rods melting."
If people just realized that most people do know how to read 'between the lines', and actually may know a little they wouldn't, hopefully, make such stupid as**s of themselves. Or maybe it doesn't matter? A lie repeated often enough will become a truth? If the melting rods gets through the confinement, and they will in time, radioactivity and heat do some pretty strange thing to all materials tested so far. There are no materials I've heard of, able to confine radioactive fuel-rods for any reasonable time over some year(s), although thick enough concrete (meters of it) will do a good job from the shorter time perspectives (like decades).
USA experimented with diluted radioactive materials embedded in metallic glass and other techniques without success, they all cracked. In Sweden we have some of the oldest stable rock in the world but we don't trust that as a longtime solution either. There are no such solutions existing in fact, the German salt mines included (they leak) The German salt-mines. (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/07/photogalleries/100708-radioactive-nuclear-waste-science-salt-mine-dump-pictures-asse-ii-germany/)
"Eventually the nuclear waste will have to be stored indefinitely because of the long time it takes for some of the waste isotopes to decay to a safe level. The consensus of most waste management specialist for final disposal is to bury the waste deep underground. In doing so we must ensure that the radioactive waste does not move from its burial site or that it does not escape into the environment. If it does it could have dire consequences for future generations such as contamination of drinking water. To ensure that the radioactive waste is contained the current consensus is to use a multi-barrier system to store the waste. The geological disposal system consists of firstly surrounding the conditioned and packaged solid waste by several human made barriers then placing this at a depth of several hundred meters in a stable geological environment. The geological formation is the most important of the isolation barriers. The barriers act in concert to initially completely isolate the radioactive particles so they can decay and then limit their release to the environment. The combination of man made and natural geological barriers is called a multibarrier system.
The solidification of nuclear waste (which is necessary for final disposal) usually consists of dispersal in a glass matrix. However, alternative techniques are being researched. One such technique consists of embedding the waste into a ceramic matrix such as Synroc.Synroc is a “synthetic rock” invented in 1978 by Professor Ted Ringwood of the Australian National University. Synroc can incorporate nearly all the elements contained in high level waste.
The barriers surrounding the solid waste vary from country to country. However most countries believe that the barriers should be made of materials that occur naturally in the earth’s crust. In Sweden, the barriers consist of
1. A copper canister with a cast iron insert. This barrier is closest to the waste and its function is to isolate the fuel from the environment.
2. The second layer consists of bentonite clay called a buffer. Its function is to protect the the canister against small movements in the rock and keep it in its place. The clay also acts as a filter in case any radioactive particles escape form the canister.
3. The geological rock. The rock also stops leaking of radioactive particles into the environment but its main function is to protect the canister and buffer from mechanical damage and to offer a stable environment for the isolation of the waste. "
So do we Swedes trust this solution :)
N o p e.
But it is the best we've found so far. I like my idea of leaving the wastes in the city's myself. Nobody will forget to check on them then :) And we will all feel 'involved', won't we? As for breeder reactors gen 4-?? Sure, I also like SF, but I have still to see any real proof for any of those working on the level we will need for taking care of our nuclear waste. Until then don't bother telling me that 'This will work!!' If we survive long enough I'm sure we will find good solutions, but until we really have them, for real, not as your beliefs or wish, until then let's put the waste in our city's. It's a gamble, but so are life, and we will at least know what we are doing, instead of slowly poisoning the planet, hiding it from sight, "out of sight, out of mind" as they say and that's the first step to a nuclear disaster. Here is a article from Scientific American. Spent Nuclear Fuel: A Trash Heap Deadly for 250,000 Years, or, a Renewable Energy Source? (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=nuclear-waste-lethal-trash-or-renewable-energy-source)
When it comes to Japan. Read a more technical description here Fukushima Nuclear Accident. (http://bravenewclimate.com/2011/03/15/fukushima-15-march-summary/) As for the possible leakage we will know soon enough how serious it is. Not even the largest Power companies can make the atmosphere lie, I think?
Ah, don't get me wrong. Just build the nuclear waste repositories in the middle of our major city's and I will be satisfied with our level of disaster readiness :) Or not, depending..
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I am very sorry for all people losing their life in the Earthquake/Tsunami, and for how the nuclear situation have evolved for Japan. I truly really pray that it will cool down, and that there will be no real radioactive contamination. I'm sorry if I sounded callous here. But this situation is no Japanese situation solely. It's about all of our nuclear power plants, and their security. That Russia won't care doesn't surprise me, 'Hello Chernobyl' not to mention those areas they have that has become radioactive deserts, humans still living in them. but for those of us able to care we need to learn from it.
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Can't withhold this, if true it seems more than a misunderstanding.
""Mr Edano said the figures that have been released to date measuring the level of radiation around the plant have been misquoted as micro sieverts. He said the unit attached to the figures should have been millisieverts which are 1,000 times stronger and much more damaging to human health"
And “current measurements around power plants are 400 millisieverts”
Risks from environmental levels of ionising radiation are categorised in medicine using BEIR formula, e.g.
“BEIR VI indicated that a 10 mSv single population dose is associated with a lifetime attributable risk for developing a solid cancer or leukemia in 1:1000"
1 millisievert = 1000 microsieverts.
Normal yearly dose of radiation is around 100 microsieverts.
Current measurements around power plants are 400 millisieverts == 400 000 microsieverts
That is 4000 x the normal annual dose."
I hate this. Not wanting a panic?
By giving the wrong information to the people involved?
Sh* .
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1 Sv = 1000 mSv (millisieverts) = 1000000 μSv (microsieverts) = 100 rem = 100000 mrem (millirem); 1 mSv = 100 mrem = 0.1 rem; 1 μSv = 0.1 mrem.
"The yearly dose to individuals living close to a power plant is small - usually a fraction of a millisievert; doses to people further away are even smaller. Reprocessing nuclear fuel produces higher doses which vary greatly from plant to plant. For the most exposed members of the public, they can be as high as 0.4 millisieverts, but for most of the population they are very much smaller. World-wide, there are estimated to be four million workers exposed to artificial radiation as a result of their work, with an average yearly dose of about 1 millisievert. Another five million (mostly in civil aviation) have yearly average doses due to natural radiation of 1.7 millisieverts. "
And "The health effects of radiation may be divided into those that occur early and those that occur late. Short term: It has long been recognized that exposure to high levels of radiation can harm exposed tissues of the human body. Such radiation effects can be clinically diagnosed in the exposed individual; they are called deterministic effects because once a radiation dose above the relevant threshold has been received, they will occur and the severity depends on the dose. --
Long-term: Studies of populations exposed to radiation, especially of the survivors of the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, have shown that exposure to radiation can also lead to the delayed induction of cancer and, possibly, of hereditary damage. Effects such as these cannot usually be confirmed in any particular individual exposed but can be inferred from statistical studies of large populations: they appear to occur at random in the irradiated population."
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Status of nuclear power plants in Fukushima as of 19:00 March 15 (Estimated by JAIF) (http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/news_images/pdf/ENGNEWS01_1300189582P.pdf)
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NHK WORLD TV -Japan Quake News- (in English) (http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv43296023) "In cooperation with NHK WORLD TV, we provide 'live streaming about the Earthquake information'. We are profoundly grateful for NHK WORLD TV's cooperation."
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Reactor four is having a hydrogen fire. It's not getting better. I wish they hadn't told people to stay as it first happened. It had been better to evacuate them I think. The radiation is now 500 times the normal level, although I don't know what radius they mean. They are advising people to stay indoors and the worse it get the safer that will be, relatively so of course. Terrible news. Looking at the radiation levels they had earlier.
"Northerly winds carried radioactive material from the quake-damaged Fukushima No.1 nuclear power plant more than 200 kilometers south to Tokyo on Tuesday morning. Radiation levels rose in areas to the south of the plant in the hours before and after an explosion at the plant's No.2 reactor, which occurred at 6.00 AM. In Iwaki city, about 40 kilometers south of the plant, the radiation level was 470 times higher than normal as of 4:00 AM, but has since dropped." I guess they mean around that radius now too, at least? Tokyo is not far away.
This is not good.
It seems as if it is a storage pool that is to blame, also it seems to start burning to then die again. And the radiation is too high to approach it. The after quakes doesn't make it easier either, as a guess. They just had one at 6.5. And its going to be cold, with snow.
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It seems as the number three reactor containment has broken too. they had smoke/vapor coming out just now, same as reactor two? Before? Missed that one. And the temperature is rising in number four.. I think this is developing into a true disaster. In Chernobyl they used the fire-mens and other help workers ignorance, or bravery if you ask their government, to limit the worst radioactivity. They died. Japan doesn't have this, possibility? if you like. How many sane people are ready to walk into a radioactive area to possibly die, and definitely come out of it very, very, sick for a very long time? Not many. Those fire-men called heroes would probably, if they had known, chosen another solution. No offense meant, but that's my view. It's a lot of white smoke now, hydrogen explosion or something else they don't know. The radiation is too high to check it. If I got it right? Over 400 000 people have been evacuated. That's amazing if correct.
I'm very sorry for all that lost their loved ones.
It's terrible.
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Two good links
http://mitnse.com/ about the reactor..
and http://english.kyodonews.jp/ for the latest news
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It sounds like Chernobyl with choppers trying to cool it but it's not. And that we should be glad for. It's terrible enough as it is, Japan is so populated, and everything is so close.
"Radiation (Chernobyl) doses on the first day were estimated to range up to 20,000 millisieverts (mSv), causing 28 deaths – six of which were firemen – by the end of July 1986...About 200,000 people ('liquidators') from all over the Soviet Union were involved in the recovery and clean-up during 1986 and 1987. They received high doses of radiation, averaging around 100 millisieverts. Some 20,000 of them received about 250 mSv and a few received 500 mSv. Later, the number of liquidators swelled to over 600,000 but most of these received only low radiation doses. The highest doses were received by about 1000 emergency workers and on-site personnel during the first day of the accident..."
but saying that 350 millisievert is 'okay' to work in? That I severely doubt. Only for a very short time if so.
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The faceless 50, the unnamed operators who stayed behind. (http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/954687--the-fukushima-plant-workers-braving-fire-radiation-in-bid-to-stop-meltdown)
20 millisieverts per year = one sick per 400 persons
100 mSv per year = about 4 person per 400 sick a year.
Above 200 millisieverts per year = short-term sickness.
Above 500 millisieverts per year immune system affected.
above 1000 MsV some may die.
Above 2500 MsV a third will die
3000 MsV will cause internal bleeding
400 MsV at Fukushima reactor is bad, but not deadly.
"Anyway.. todays tools are scaled in Sievert, for volunteer fireworkers like me there are the following rules:
Max radiation allowed for saving things: 15mSv/hr
Max ... for removing danger of others peoples live: 100mSV per accident (
Max .. for saving life: 250mSv per accident
Allowed dose per year: 40mSv
Allowed dose per life: 400mSv
Basically: If you never worked in an atomic plant, stand one hour outside of Fukushima you get your max. allowed lifedose"
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But it may be a race against time. "The US military said it had delivered high-pressure water pumps to Japan to help with the operation at Fukushima. High-pressure water pumps were offloaded from USNS Safeguard in Yokosuka last night and delivered to Yokota Air Force Base for further transfer to the government of Japan for employment at the Fukushima power plant," the US Pacific Fleet said in a statement."
satellite images of Japan showing damage after an Earthquake and Tsunami. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/digitalglobe-imagery/)
"The International Atomic Energy Agency has rated the radiation release there 4 on a scale of 7. Three Mile Island was rated as 5/7 and Chernobyl was rated 7/7. Each additional point on this scale represents a factor of 10, so the current situation at Fukushima is 1/10th as serious as that at Three Mile Island, and 1/1000th as serious as Chernobyl, according to the agency.
Q: What happened at Three Mile Island? A: On March 28, 1979, unit 2 suffered a partial meltdown after water meant for cooling the uranium fuel was released from the containment chamber due to an equipment malfunction. There was no explosion and radioactive materials weren’t released into the environment because the chamber didn’t rupture. "
And it this that can't be allowed to happen. That the uranium fuel is released inside the containment chamber and ruptures. Then the melted rods will be able to eat themselves through the concrete floor and also create new explosions. As if that wasn't enough "international Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) head Yukiya Amano confirmed that reactors No. 1, No. 2 and No. 3. had partially melted down. He added that Japanese authorities also had reported concerns about the spent nuclear fuel pools of reactors No. 3 and No. 4.
The deep tanks contain used fuel rods which are extremely radioactive and normally kept immersed in cooling water. Unlike the fuel rods that are used in the reactor vessel, the spent rods are not surrounded by a steel-and-concrete containment vessel. If water in the pools evaporated, the spent rods would be exposed to the air and radioactive material would be released into the atmosphere." "US Energy Secretary Steven Chu told Congress Wednesday that Japan's ongoing nuclear crisis appears "more serious" than the 1979 Three Mile Island partial reactor meltdown...Chu said DOE has sent 39 people and 17,000 pounds of equipment -- including radiation detectors and aerial measuring systems -- to Japan to help the country deal with the crisis.
"We are going to be looking very, very closely at the events happening in Japan and take those lessons," Chu said. "We will be looking very carefully and gathering whatever lessons can be learned and apply them to all the nuclear facilities we have in the US.""
"Currently the reactors are releasing small amounts of xenon-137 and iodine-131, which have a half life of 3.8-minutes and eight days respectively. But experts are more concerned by the release of cesium-137, which has a 30-year half-life. Professor Byrne says there is still a chance the Japanese reactors could go into meltdown.
"It's not impossible because they have problems with the coolant," he said. "The Three Mile Island accident which is the previous one similar to this certainly did have a core meltdown, so it could happen in one or maybe even two of these [reactors]. "The anxiety here is that it ruptures explosively and projects stuff into the atmosphere ... but even then it would not be of the magnitude of the Chernobyl reactor." Professor Byrne says it is not possible to speculate on how bad the health effects would be because it would depend on the amount of radiation released and where the prevailing winds took the particles. But he says as long as efforts to cool the reactors continue, the likelihood of a complete meltdown will decrease."
And last but not least; How to Stop a Nuclear Meltdown. (http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2058615,00.html)
And there seems to be 13 400 dead and counting, as for now. And with snow and the cold continuing around zero the evacuees situation becomes constantly worse, in their provisional shelters without food, medicine, heat and water. The government seem to try to move some to new shelters, further away, a worrying sign. And with Tokyo soon without food and water, just 200 kilometers away? In a worst case scenario it will be a nightmare come true. And if you believe, send a prayer for those faceless fifty, those that stayed in a environment where every hour becomes a lifetime of radiation, I think they can need all help they can get, divine or not. They are the true heroes here. Just found new information about them. They are 200 working in shifts of fifty. We should all be proud over people like that, they represent the best in us.
Two are missing after fire explosion today.
But the rest goes on, wish them well..
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Let's not forget Russia. Rad Storm Rising. (http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1990/12/rad-storm-rising/6380/)
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They're dumping water now from choppers 7.5 tons per load. And they will use water cannons from the ground. Those doing it is worth a salute. And those making money on Japan stinks, buying and selling yen. USA have advised its citizens to evacuate a eighty kilometers radius around the Fukushima reactor. It is an American reactor so they may have a lot more statistics on them? Don't know how serious one need to take it? It depends on what they have seen in those tests the Japanese have delivered to them. but to evacuate such a large area, in Japan? I think they are having dire trouble with the shelters they already have.
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Swedish waterfall will cry.
The company directors should be put in jail. They went and bought Germany's power plants, so now we Swedes are responsible for the German power production, and the Germans ? Well, They're closing down on nuclear energy, so suddenly Vattenfall is advocating .. Coal(!) ah, as a 'renewable' energy source? in Germany, well more or less :) So f*ng sad, and it wasn't even their private property. It was the Swedish peoples, but with idiots acting as if it was, with the right wing applauding as they want to sell it all out, and well, the 'taxes' sinks when you sell of our common heritage, don't they :) momentarily at least. And if the right wing sell Swedish common property off cheap enough, and they do, oh yes they really do :) the rich will buy... Our new government have been selling out our property for over ten years now, with our new 'middle class' applauding it. Soon everything we worked up will be gone into private hands with only what they can't sell staying as the 'peoples' responsibility. Meaning that the rich gets richer, and those without tax deductions will stand for the rest.. Stinks..
And hey, they're selling Sweden off cheap too :)
A tip, buy buy buy.
Well, what can one say? Suddenly the Swedish people have become the 'guarantee' for German power production, and as a guess if the Germans want to dismantle their nuclear power plants they will try to off load it at Vattenfall. Those directors creating this clusterfu** should should be interned in a asylum, for ever, never letting them out again. Instead they get bonuses :)
Power suits in action, world wide ::))
A f*ng joke. Just like the international banking system.
Take a look To Shut Down Isar 1 Reactor As Part Of Govt Nuclear Moratorium. (http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20110315-704837.html)
Wouldn't surprise me if Vattenfall will go into bankruptcy. It's either that or us Swedish people taking care of two countries nuclear dismantling, alternatively renewal and upgrading. Get a real Government back Sweden, listening to reason and common sense instead.
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Don't get me wrong. Sweden lost their 'sight' a long time before that, our 'SocialDemocrats' becoming the forerunners of privatization. I don't see us having any real 'political parties' having foresight any more. And no, I am not advocting for a 'leftist' government. Or right wing.. Just advocating for people trying do what is good for us all, instead of what is good for their own pockets, or idiotic 'politic theories'. There are no such thing as 'political theories' the red Khmer's, peoples revolution in China, communist revolution and subsequent Putin regime all can tell you that. A right wing government is in one way truthful, ain't they :) At least they tell you that they want to privatize, only lying when telling you how good it will be for you. Even though privatization will be good for some, it won't be true for a whole population, assuming that the government before wasn't totally corrupted that is.
I always found the 'middle way' being the best, with power, water and medical services best being in the hands of the Country, not commercial interests. They are not to be 'supply and demand'. John Locke's general theory of value and price was the 'supply and demand' theory, well fitted to the time he lived in, but also leading to the robber barons. To day the world is small, very small. But we still have greed as our primary goal it seems, whatever 'political theory' we hide behind. That has to stop.
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http://www.jrc.or.jp/english/relief/l4/Vcms4_00002070.html
Japanese Red Cross for those that have something to give.
"If you want to donate money to the affected population of earthquake and tsunami, please contact your national Red Cross/Crescent society, which may have already launched fundraising campaign within your country. If your national society doesn’t collect donation or you wish to send your donations directly to the Japanese Red Cross Society, please direct your fund to the following bank account. If you need the receipt of your fund, please state so clearly in the comment section of the bank transfer order. All the fund received under this account will be transferred to the Distribution Committee, which is formed around the local government of the disaster-affected prefecture and to be distributed directly among the affected population of earthquake and tsunami,
Name of Bank: Sumitomo Mitsui Banking Corporation
Name of Branch: Ginza
Account No.: 8047670 (Ordinary Account)
SWIFT Code: SMBC JP JT
Payee Name: The Japanese Red Cross Society
Payee Address: 1-1-3 Shiba-Daimon Minato-ku, Tokyo JAPAN
Thank you once again for your generous offer. It is surely the source of encouragement for the affected population in Japan."
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it seems like they succeeded to get some water to the number 3 reactor (the most dangerous one) by ground (fire brigade) but they still have a lot of problems with getting out help to the evacuees. and the radiation have sunk slightly, but it's still a provisional solution. They are trying to start the electrical systems and the reactor pumps too, for cooling. But that one has to be a 'long shot'.
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Okay two links I've found to the construction and safety aspects of those reactors in Japan.
Boiling Water Reactor Power Plant (Japan) (http://digitalebookden.com/boiling-water-reactor-power-plant.html) That one I just point you too as I found it a pay-site, alternatively registering. But
"Bascially the fuel is the greatest source of radioactive species at the NPP, especially once it has operated in the core. The fission products and transmuted fuel nuclei are supposed to be retained by the fuel - firstly in the ceramic pellets - then by the cladding surrounding the pellets. Problems arise when the cladding is breached (fuel failure). Fuel particles containing isotopes of U, Np, Pu, Am and Cm, and fission products get into the coolant, or in a BWR, may find their way to the turbine, and ex-core cooling systems. Spent fuel is quite radioactive.
Fission gases (Xe, Kr) and volatiles like I, Cs are also problematic because they can be transported out of the core. In BWRs with degraded failed fuel, Xe, Kr, I and Cs are problems for folks working on turbines and BOP. Sometimes workers must wait on sight to degass, release the Xe, Kr they have inhaled.
Next corrosion products (know as crud) which deposit on the fuel during operation will become activitated, and structural materials in the core also become activated by neutron absorption. These corrosion products may find their way out of the core. This is a problem when a reactor shutsdown for refueling and the top is removed. Prior to removal, a cleanup system runs in order to wash out the loose crud, which is collected on a filter. More tenacious crud will be carried on the fuel to the spent fuel pool.
In BWRs using Hydrogen water chemistry, the can be carry over of N-16 (produced by (n,p) reaction with O-16) to the turbine. Some BWR plants have had a problem of gamma shine on workers or control room personnel because the steam lines passed near the control room. There are other radiation sources, e.g., primary and secondary neutron sources, as well as calibration sources."
And here is the other BWR_Safety_Design.pdf (http://ompldr.org/vN3VhMQ/BWR_Safety_Design.pdf) this one is a direct download. I had some trouble finding them, the original site in Japan didn't allow me to download them at all and I seemed unable to connect to it?
And lastly. Sample Core Damage Frequency Insights for Boiling Water Reactor. (http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/commission/secys/1996/secy1996-051/1996-051scy.html#_1_1) and some references on radiation protection and monitoring from Brookhaven (http://hps.ne.uiuc.edu/natcisoe/brookhaven.htm)
Those are all
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So how serious is it?
Well the earthquake (8.9) alone was .. thirty times .. worse than the famous 1906 (at magnitude 8) San Fransisco earthquake. The Tsunami itself came with a almost 8 (26 feet) meter high wave, new approximations suggest 13 meter high (43 feet) at the highest. that they became so high has to do with the length of the Eartquake, Five Minutes long... That is unheard of I think.. It's very long. "As of 06:30 this morning, 18 March, the Tokyo Fire Department was continuing to spray water into reactor 3, the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency reported. Meanwhile engineers have successfully begun laying an external grid power line cable between the transmission line and unit 2. They plan to reconnect power to unit 2 once the spraying of water on the unit 3 reactor building is completed." 50 tons of water have been flushed at reactor 3 today. And they are worried for the safety of reactor 2 as I understands it, just because it seems 'whole' still. They don't really now what's going on in there. Radiation dose rates are fluctuating based on some of the relief operations, such as adding cooling water to the used fuel pools. Recent readings at the plant boundary are about 2 millirem per hour. Radiation dose rates at reactor 3 range between 2,500 and 5,000 millirem per hour. The cooling seems to work so far.
So yes, I'm sort of scared. I'm scared for the safety of those eighteen millions (+) living 220 km from the site. Nobody knows how many there are living there in reality it seems, but, if there is a panic and they all start to leave, going outside?
Not good. Especially as it probably will be if the radiation gets dangerously high.
So far we only heard about reactor 1-4 right?
But, how many reactors are we talking about at Fukushima plant?
The real number is six.
" At the 40-year-old Fukushima Daiichi unit 1, where an explosion Saturday destroyed a building housing the reactor, the spent fuel pool, in accordance with General Electric’s design, is placed above the reactor. Tokyo Electric said it was trying to figure out how to maintain water levels in the pools, indicating that the normal safety systems there had failed, too. Failure to keep adequate water levels in a pool would lead to a catastrophic fire, said nuclear experts, some of whom think that unit 1’s pool may now be outside.
“That would be like Chernobyl on steroids,” said Arnie Gundersen, a nuclear engineer at Fairewinds Associates and a member of the public oversight panel for the Vermont Yankee nuclear plant, which is identical to the Fukushima Daiichi unit 1. People familiar with the plant said there are seven spent fuel pools at Fukushima Daiichi, many of them densely packed.
Gundersen said the unit 1 pool could have as much as 20 years of spent fuel rods, which are still radioactive. The Fukushima Daiichi plant has seven pools for spent fuel rods. Six of these are (or were) located at the top of six reactor buildings.
One “common pool” is at ground level in a separate building. Each “reactor top” pool holds 3450 fuel rod assemblies. The common pool holds 6291 fuel rod assemblies. [The common pool has windows on one wall which were almost certainly destroyed by the tsunami.] Each assembly holds sixty-three fuel rods. This means the Fukushima Daiichi plant may contain over 600,000 spent fuel rods."
Add to that "Pentagon officials reported Sunday that helicopters flying 60 miles from the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant picked up small amounts of radioactive particulates — still being analyzed, but presumed to include cesium-137 and iodine-121 — suggesting widening environmental contamination. The detection of the highly radioactive elements heralds the beginning of an ecological and human tragedy. The two radioactive isotopes can mean only one thing: One or more of the reactor cores is badly damaged and at least partially melted down."
And HAZARDS OF BOILING WATER REACTORS IN THE UNITED STATES. (http://www.nirs.org/factsheets/bwrfact.htm)
And "The Fukushima Units #1 through #5 at Daiichi are older GE designed BWR-3 and BWR-4 Mk.I, boiling water reactors that were all built in the 1970's. I used to design fuel for these types of reactors when I worked at GE some years ago. In general, I would say that BWRs are actually inherently safer than PWRs. When I was at GE they used to say that BWR stood for "BEST Water Reactor." This older design, however, is not the best design for accident scenarios. It has a torus or "doughnut" for the suppression pool and it is limited in its capacity. Also, these containment structures are smaller than later designs, and generally considered not as robust."
And considering what happened this seems to fit in. "For station blackout accidents, containment systems will not be functional and the drywell floor will often be dry, leaving the plant susceptible to drywell shell melt-through. In addition, the reactor vessel will normally be at elevated pressure, which increases the containment loads at vessel breach. This means that station blackout accidents pose a severe challenge to Mark I and Mark II containments, and therefore, these accidents are often important contributors to the frequency of containment failure."
So, how can we find out what's really going on there? We can't go into them to look, not without playing Russian roulette. " Washington possesses some unique assets. One asset – the secretive National Reconassiance Office – runs the spy satellites remote sensing devices that enable US national security to spy on planet Earth. The NRO’s slightly less secretive cousin over at the the Pentagon is the Defense Intelligence Agency. The DIA, in turn, controls MASINT “measures and signatures technologies”.
What is MASINT? FDL’s recent guest Tim Shorrock answered that question a few years ago for CorpWatch: MASINT is a highly classified form of intelligence that uses infrared sensors and other technologies to “sniff” the atmosphere for certain chemicals and electro-magnetic activity and “see” beneath bridges and forest canopies. Using its tools, analysts can detect signs that a nuclear power plant is producing plutonium, determine from truck exhaust what types of vehicles are in a convoy, and detect people and weapons hidden from the view of satellites or photoreconnaissance aircraft."
So, now I wonder, what do they see?
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Seems the pressure is raising in reactor three. They are going to release some water from the containment vessel to equal out the pressure. They can't use the (internal) suppression pool for this, so there will be a raised radioactivity outside it. but if they don't release the pressure the reactor may burst.
Serious stuff, making it even more difficult to handle.
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There is still a lot of 'after shakes' going on. Must be terrifying not knowing how strong they will be.
"Maximum intensity 4 earthquake off the coast of Ibaraki Prefecture 2011/3/21 23:21:26 M5.8 occurred depth 30km Maximum intensity 3 earthquake in western Kanagawa Prefectur 2011/3/21 23:27:26 M4.0 occurred 10km depth."
And reactor 2 is still a worry for the Japanese, there came whitish smoke from that one, and reactor 3, earlier. And with it the radiation started to fluctuate between 2000-400 microsieverts, some five km away if I got this right? And reactor three had thick black smoke coming from the used reactor pool. It makes me wonder if they shouldn't start to plan for the same as at Chernobyl? Where they, from the second to tenth day, dumped around 5000 tonnes of boron, dolomite, sand, clay and lead on the burning core using helicopters, trying to extinguish the blaze and limit the release of radioactive particles. I'm not saying that they need to do it. Just that they should prepare. It's better to be prepared before than after, I think, and if needed that one will take some serious logistics to plan for
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I know. You've already seen it, right :)
S t i l l . .
Wanna be space savvy? Real Space Savvy? I mean, Really, R e a l l y, Space Savvy ??
Welcome Space Cadets. (flash) (http://www.solarsystemscope.com/)
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Ah well, it's no fun reading about the Fukushima plant, Seems like a possible reactor breach in the number 3 reactor. Workers trying to connect an electrical cable to a pump stepped into water that was found to be 10,000 times more radioactive than levels normally found in water in or around a reactor. There is the same amount of radioactivity found in water in reactor one (That one is worrying), and possibly in number two and four as there is water there too. the Japanese government are encouraging people to move. there's a strong probability that those or this leak(s) have been there since the disaster.
"Similar pools of water were also found in the turbine buildings of the No. 2 and No. 4 reactors, measuring up to 1 meter and 80 centimeters deep, respectively. Those near the No. 1 and No. 3 reactors were up to 40 cm and 1.5 meters deep. TEPCO will remove such water in all of four reactor units to reduce the risk of more workers being exposed to radioactive substances, it said. The risk hinders their efforts to restore the plant's crippled cooling functions, which are crucial to overcoming the crisis, it added.
The utility plans to inject fresh water into the No. 2 reactor core to prevent crystallized salt from seawater already injected forming a crust on the fuel rods and hampering smooth water circulation, thus diminishing the cooling effect. It has begun injecting fresh water into the No. 1 and No. 3 reactor cores."
"The quake and tsunami are emerging as the world's most expensive natural disasters on record, wreaking up to $310 billion in damages, the government said." And that's just the start I would say. We'll see if those watching are able to learn from this, or not. The costs for just one nuclear accident is astronomical.
"Government spokesman Yukio Edano insisted that people living 12 to 20 miles (20 to 30 kilometers) from the plant should still be safe from radiation as long as they stay indoors. But since supplies are not being delivered to the area fast enough, he said it may be better for residents to voluntarily evacuate to places with better facilities."
I doubt anyone will feel safer by that message. And the radioactivity measured in the water supply in Tokyo was twice what's allowed for infants Wednesday, but has now gone down again to 51 becquerels of radioactive iodine per kilogram of water Friday morning. Let's hope it will work out for them, and lets also hope that they've started to prepare for a worst case scenario. Looking at Chernobyl and wondering what 600 000 fuel rods might do is not what I want to do.
But they are trying, so very hard. And the Tsunami is making it so much worse, with homeless people in the hundred of thousands. But it's nothing compared with what a new Chernobyl might do to the citizens of Tokyo. If that happens we will be talking about millions instead.
"Early Friday, concern grew that the high-level radiation leak detected with the workers' exposure could indicate possible damage to the No. 3 reactor vessel, but the government's nuclear safety agency later denied the possibility, saying no data, such as on the pressure level, suggest the reactor vessel has cracked or been damaged.
While the high-level radiation is suspected to have come from the reactor, where overheating fuel rods are believed to have partially melted, it remains uncertain how the leak occurred, the government's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency said."
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Fukushima Nuclear Accident Update Log Updates of 25 March 2011 (http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/tsunamiupdate01.html)
What makes me wonder a little more is that the live streaming from Japan has stopped on-line, both the English and Japanese version is finished as from today. Could be a commercial decision of course, NHK WORLD TV wanting to squeeze what money they can get from the interest.
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Diverse Quotes.
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The elevated levels of radiation at and around the Fukushima plant will require careful monitoring of seafood in Japan, said Kimberlee J. Kearfott, a professor of nuclear engineering and radiological sciences at the University of Michigan. “It is extremely important that seafood be carefully monitored,” she said in an e-mail. “This is because many of the radionuclides are concentrated in the environment,” she added. “For example, iodines are concentrated in kelp (a Japanese food, seaweed) and shrimp. “Iodines, cesium and strontium are concentrated in other types of seafood,” she continued. “Fish can act like tea or coffee presses. When you push down the plungers, the grounds all end up on one side. In this case, that is the fish.”
New data from monitoring of the marine environment, carried out from 24 March, 22:55 UTC to 25 March, 03:32 UTC about 30 km offshore, show a decrease in both caesium-137 and iodine 131. The contamination at these locations is influenced by aerial deposition of fallout as well as by the migration of contaminated seawater from the discharge points at the reactor. The measured radiation doses rates above the sea remain consistently low (between 0.04 and 0.1 microsievert per hour). The first results of model predictions received from the SIROCCO Group at the University of Toulouse are being assessed. Radioactive iodine in seawater just outside the plant had risen to 1,850 times the usual level on Sunday the 27/3, up from 1,250 on Saturday. Yukio Edano, the chief cabinet secretary, said he did not think the pressure vessel, which cases the fuel rods, was broken at the No. 2 reactor. He said pressure levels inside the reactor remained higher than atmospheric pressure, suggesting that there was no breach.
“I don’t think the container is breached, but there is a possibility the water is coming from somewhere inside the reactor,” he said. “We want to find out as quickly as possible where the highly radioactive water is leaking from, and take measures to deal with it,” Mr. Edano said on a live interview on the public broadcaster, NHK, early Sunday. But monday Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano reported that highly radioactive water detected at the No. 2 reactor of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant is due to a partial meltdown of fuel rods there.
He said that "water in a containment vessel that came into contact with fuel rods, that partially melted at one point, is believed to have been leaked,'' referring to the high levels of radioactive water found at the basement of the reactor's turbine building. Edano told a news conference that the government believes the meltdown is not continuing.He said the government will put all its efforts into preventing the contaminated water from getting into seawater or seeping below ground. And Tokyo Electric Power Co., operator of the crippled plant, said Monday that it has found water with radioactive levels 100,000 times normal in the basement of the turbine building.
Two IAEA teams are currently monitoring in Japan. One team made gamma dose-rate measurements in the Tokyo region at 8 locations. Gamma dose-rates measured ranged from 0.08 to 0.15 microsievert per hour, which is within or slightly above the normal background. The second team made additional measurements at distances of 30 to 41 km from the Fukushima nuclear power plant. At these locations, the dose-rates ranged from 0.9 to 17 microsievert per hour. At the same locations, results of beta-gamma contamination measurements ranged from 0.03 to 3.1 Megabecquerel per square metre. There was also deep concern early Sunday about initial readings of radioactive iodine 134, which has a half-life of only 53 minutes and would not be present in large quantities unless fission had restarted. That would present the alarming possibility of an out-of-control reactor. Several hours after releasing the initial results, the plant operator said that those readings had been in error, and that retesting had shown negligible amounts of the isotope.
But the revised readings confirmed the overall high radiation readings at the plant, and utility officials continued to search for the exact source. And they still may need to retest for other radioactive isotopes that had been found in the seawater around the No. 2 reactor, including troubling quantities of cesium, barium, cobalt and lanthanum. The government's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency also said Monday that radioactive iodine-131 at a concentration 1,150 times the maximum allowable level was detected Sunday in a seawater sample taken around 1.5 kilometers north of the drainage outlets of the troubled No. 1-4 reactors. Hidehiko Nishiyama, a spokesman for the nuclear agency, said it is highly likely that the polluted water spotted near the No. 5-6 reactors flew from the sea area near the No. 1-4 reactors along the coastline.
Nishiyama said there were no health concerns so far because fishing would not be conducted in the evacuation-designated area within 20 kilometers of the plant and radioactive materials would be ''significantly diluted'' by the time they are consumed by marine species and then by people.
Recommendations relating to the restriction of drinking water consumption, based on measured concentrations of iodine-131, remain in place in seven locations (in one location for both adults and infants, and in six locations for infants). As far as food contamination is concerned, samples taken from 23 to 25 March in five prefectures showed iodine-131 in unprocessed raw milk, but the levels were far below the regulation values set by the Japanese authorities. Caesium-137 was also detected in samples of unprocessed raw milk taken on 23 March in Chiba prefecture, but at levels far below the Japanese regulation values. Caesium-137 was not detected in any of the samples taken from 24-25 March in the other four prefectures.
=End.
-
Just to put it in perspective.
"The Chernobyl disaster, a nuclear reactor explosion and subsequent fire on April 26, 1986, which spewed highly radioactive fallout into the atmosphere, continues to harm animal populations in the Ukraine, according to a new study. The study, published in the latest Royal Society Biology Letters, presents the most extensive data set ever compiled on the abundance of animals at and around the Chernobyl site. "Abundance" is relative in this case, however, since scientists Anders Moller and Timothy Mousseau determined that insect, bird and other animal populations have dramatically diminished there in the two decades following the disaster.
"Chronic, continuous exposure to low dose radiation appears to be the cause," Mousseau, director of the Chernobyl Research Initiative at the University of South Carolina, told Discovery News. For three years, he and Moller conducted population censuses on invertebrates at more than 700 sites near Chernobyl. At each site the researchers measured radiation levels, using Geiger counters and aerial scan data. They also counted numbers of bumblebees, butterflies, grasshoppers, dragonflies and spider webs.
The radiation wasn't just higher right at the plant site, either.
Due to factors such as wind direction, the nuclear blast released radiation "in a very patchy manner, so while the highest areas of contamination are closest to the plant, there are also areas of higher radiation quite a ways away from the reactor," Mousseau said.
He and Moller are currently analyzing wolf, fox, rabbit, squirrel and other animal populations. The scientists are not yet ready to release those findings, but the insect population study and the earlier bird surveys suggest that many species "are either absent or in very low numbers in the Chernobyl region."
"Brightly colored and migratory species of birds appear to be particularly sensitive to radioactive contaminants," Mousseau added. Two processes appear to keep the Ukraine animals in a downward cycle. The first is that radiation could be accumulating within certain species over many generations, through ingestion of contaminated dirt, water and food. Secondly, as one animal or insect population diminishes, another one might take its place. This "niche replacement" species might then become contaminated too, reducing its later survival rates. As a result, the ecosystem at Chernobyl has never fully recovered and remains in distress, suggest the recent studies."
And "Twelve times a month — the maximum number of shifts the doctors will allow — Sergei A. Krasikov takes a train across the no man’s land and reports for work at a structure enclosing Reactor No. 4 known as “the sarcophagus.”
Among his tasks is to pump out radioactive liquid that has collected inside the burned-out reactor. This happens whenever it rains. The sarcophagus was built 25 years ago in a panic, as radiation streamed into populated areas after an explosion at the reactor, and now it is riddled with cracks. Water cannot be allowed to touch the thing that is deep inside the reactor: about 200 tons of melted nuclear fuel and debris, which burned through the floor and hardened, in one spot, into the shape of an elephant’s foot. This mass remains so highly radioactive that scientists cannot approach it. But years ago, when they managed to place measurement instruments nearby, they got readings of 10,000 rem per hour, which is 2,000 times the yearly limit recommended for workers in the nuclear industry.
While some radioactive elements in nuclear fuel decay quickly, cesium’s half-life is 30 years and strontium’s is 29 years. Scientists estimate that it takes 10 to 13 half-lives before life and economic activity can return to an area. That means that the contaminated area — designated by Ukraine’s Parliament as 15,000 square miles, around the size of Switzerland — will be affected for more than 300 years.
All last week, workers frantically tried to cool the six reactors at the Fukushima Daiichi plant 140 miles north of Tokyo. But one had to look at Ukraine to understand the sheer tedium and exhaustion of dealing with the aftermath of a meltdown. It is a problem that does not exist on a human time frame. Volodymyr P. Udovychenko drove to Ukraine’s Parliament building on Tuesday, dressed in a shiny purple shirt and tie. He is the mayor of Slavutych, which is home to most of the 3,400 workers who are still employed at the Chernobyl Atomic Energy Station.
Most of them have not received their full salaries since January, and the mayor was requesting $3.6 million to pay them. “The leadership turns away from this, they think that Chernobyl doesn’t exist,” he said. “Chernobyl does exist. And those 200 tons — they also exist.” "
Sober reading, folks. Don't ever listen to those wanting you to 'forget' about it and 'leave it to the experts'. And stop thinking of long term storage. Keep it where we are forced to take care of it instead. There's no company able to take care of anything at those time scales, and probably no government either. But keeping the waste where we can see it will make us able to react in time, instead of 'out of sight, out of mind.'
-
This is Horrible. I know that you need to use those that are willing. But you shouldn't use those that already given up, feeling that life is of no use. Very questionable ethics, and sort of stinks. Those guys cited shouldn't be there, they should be at a crisis center with people that can give them some hope. This sounds more like those kind of nuclear war scenarios where someone used a dirty bomb at you, creating suicide squads that knows that they will die any which way. And no, I'm not joking, those scenarios exist. Humans are strange beings.
"The Fukushima 50 aren't on their own anymore — there are now about 400 Tokyo Electric Power Co. employees inside the plant. They work in rotating 12-hour shifts. The high levels of contamination make it hard to get supplies to them, so food and water are scarce. They get two meals a day: Typically, vegetable juice and 30 crackers each for breakfast, and instant rice for dinner. "I just wanted people to understand that there are many people fighting under harsh circumstances in the nuclear plants," one worker wrote in an email. "That is all I want. Crying is useless. If we're in hell now all we can do is to crawl up towards heaven."
Is the pressure getting to them?
Yes. In a note thanking fellow TEPCO employees for their hard work, one Fukushima supervisor broke down. "My parents were washed away by the tsunami and I still don't know where they are," he wrote. "I'm engaged in extremely tough work under this kind of mental condition. ... I can't take this any more!" Another worker, named Emiko Ueno wrote in an email quoted in The New York Times: "My town is gone,. My parents are still missing. I still cannot get in the area because of the evacuation order. I still have to work in such a mental state. This is my limit.""
-
Just remember the rest of the district is also suffering from total destruction, the single small area affected by radiation is tiny compared to the loss of entire towns and the death of over 28000 people killed by either drowning or having something fall on them. the reactors can and will be contained and controlled, but the rest of the country needs help as well.
-
" TOKYO — Japan's nuclear regulators raised the severity level of the crisis at a stricken nuclear plant Tuesday to rank it on par with the 1986 Chernobyl disaster, citing the amount of radiation released in the accident. The regulators said the rating was being raised from 5 to 7 — the highest level on an international scale overseen by the International Atomic Energy Agency. However, there was no sign of any significant change at the tsunami-stricken Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear plant.
The new ranking signifies a "major accident" with "wider consequences" than the previous level, according to the Vienna-based IAEA. "We have upgraded the severity level to 7 as the impact of radiation leaks has been widespread from the air, vegetables, tap water and the ocean," said Minoru Oogoda of Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency. NISA officials said one of the factors behind the decision was that the cumulative amount of radioactive particles released into the atmosphere since the incident had reached levels that apply to a Level 7 incident.
The revision was based on cross-checking and assessments of data on leaks of radioactive iodine-131 and cesium-137, said NISA spokesman Hidehiko Nishiyama. "We have refrained from making announcements until we have reliable data," Nishiyama said. "The announcement is being made now because it became possible to look at and check the accumulated data assessed in two different ways," he said, referring " From Associated Press Updated: 04/11/2011.
==
"Changes to Fukushima Daiichi Plant Status 15 April 2011, 14:30 UTC
The transfer of contaminated water from the trench of the Unit 2 Turbine Building to the condenser started on 12 April and continued on 13 April until approximately 660 tonnes were transferred. To minimize the movement of contaminated water to the open sea, temporary boards to stop water (3 steel plates in total) were installed on 13 April on the ocean-side of the Inlet Bar Screen of Unit 2.
Silt fences have also been installed in the inlet canal and in front of the Inlet Bar Screens of Units 1, 2, 3 and 4. On 11 April, a silt screen was installed at the southern end of the inlet canal. The installation in front of the Inlet Bar Screen of Units 3 and 4 was completed on 13 April and for Units 1 and 2 on 14 April. As of 14 April, white "smoke" was still observed coming from Units 2 and 3. White "smoke" was also observed coming from Unit 4 on 14 April." From IAEA. (http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/tsunamiupdate01.html)
Two hundred thousand people within a 12 mile radius of the plants is evacuated, with a no fly zone established within 50 km of the plants.
"There is approximately 50 workers at the reactors attempting to put water into the reactors to try and cool them, and around 800 nonessential staff workers have been evacuated. To date there has been 4 explosions at the plant emerging from the devastating effects the earthquake caused on March 11, and the tsunami the followed. Tokyo is located 150 miles to the south, and radiation levels there are slightly higher which caused the cancellation of Air China flights from Beijing and Shanghai into the capital of Japan."
TEPCO presenting a analysis of the tsunami hitting the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear plant on March 11th, 2011. (http://www.japannewstoday.com/?p=3005)
-
And here is our own TNS interview with Dr Ian Farnan, from the Cambridge University Department of Earth Sciences. (http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/content/interviews/interview/1615/) Explaining how it could happen.
-
I don't know about you but I need a break here. Something that always make me smile is a cool game. There's a lot of nice online games out there, but not so many that suits a laptop (which I have) and are --Free--
Anyway, enough complaining. Here's a game with a twist, and rocks? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEt_0WZ4Tbo&feature=player_embedded#at=74)
==
And here's the text.
Mum mum mum mah
Mum mum mum mah
Mum mum mum mah
Mum mum mum mah
I wanna raid 'em like they do in the old days
Stun 'em sheep 'em sap 'em kite 'em mind control with me
Cast rejuvenation on the pally as she starts
And after she's been healed I'll be the one to heal her heart
Oh, oh, oh, oh, ohhhh, ohh-oh-e-ohh-oh-oh
I'll cast some HoTs, while she tanks the boss
Oh, oh, oh, oh, ohhhh, ohh-oh-e-ohh-oh-oh,
I'll cast some HoTs, while she tanks the boss
Can't beat my, Can't beat my
Can't beat my roll on that epic mace
(He just rolled 100)
Can't beat my, Can't beat my
Can't beat my roll on that epic mace
(He just rolled 100)
Ep-ep-ep-epic mace, ep-ep-epic mace
(Mum mum mum mah)
Ep-ep-ep-epic mace, ep-ep-epic mace
(Mum mum mum mah)
I wanna pug with her a leet pair we will be
Try a random dungeon and were queued up instantly
Grouped up with a huntard who still needs to fix his gun
'Cuz baby when we pug, if we don't wipe, it isn't fun
Oh, oh, oh, oh, ohhhh, ohh-oh-e-ohh-oh-oh
I'll cast some HoTs, while she tanks the boss
Oh, oh, oh, oh, ohhhh, ohh-oh-e-ohh-oh-oh,
I'll cast some HoTs, while she tanks the boss
Can't beat my, Can't beat my
Can't beat my roll on that epic mace
(He just rolled 100)
Can't beat my, Can't beat my
Can't beat my roll on that epic mace
(He just rolled 100)
Ep-ep-ep-epic mace, ep-ep-epic mace
(Mum mum mum mah)
Ep-ep-ep-epic mace, ep-ep-epic mace
(Mum mum mum mah)
I won't tell you that you're laggin'
but I'm braggin'
Cause they're spankin' while you're tankin'
I'm not lying I'm just HoTing with my sick heal-botting
Just like a jerk trolling in trade chat
steal your mount and then I transfer out
I promise this, promise this
Check my armoury I don't exist
Can't beat my, Can't beat my
Can't beat my roll on that epic mace
(He just rolled 100)
Can't beat my, Can't beat my
Can't beat my roll on that epic mace
(He just rolled 100)
Can't beat my, Can't beat my
Can't beat my roll on that epic mace
(He just rolled 100)
Can't beat my, Can't beat my
Can't beat my roll on that epic mace
(He just rolled 100)
Can't beat my, Can't beat my
Can't beat my roll on that epic mace
(He just rolled 100)
Can't beat my, Can't beat my
Can't beat my roll on that epic mace
(He just rolled 100)
Ep-ep-ep-epic mace, ep-ep-epic mace
(Mum mum mum mah)
Ep-ep-ep-epic mace, ep-ep-epic mace
(Mum mum mum mah)
Ep-ep-ep-epic mace, ep-ep-epic mace
(Mum mum mum mah)
Ep-ep-ep-epic mace, ep-ep-epic mace
(Mum mum mum mah)
Ep-ep-ep-epic mace, ep-ep-epic mace
(Mum mum mum mah)
Ep-ep-ep-epic mace, ep-ep-epic mace
(Mum mum mum mah)
-
And something for those that thought it was a free game..
Su**ers :)
Wallace & Gromit's world of invention. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcone/wallaceandgromit/wallaces-workshop/) Most suitable for those with some engineering skills. On the other tentacle, if you didn't have it before you will get it now.
-
It's been some time since I wrote about Fukushima Daiichi. It's like that, at first it's news, and horrible news at that, but as the days go and nothing seems to happen, no new catastrophe that is, one lose focus. But we all know that with radioactive materials there is no such things 'short time solutions'. So here is what seems new to me.
This one is from the 3 of April.
"Water with high amounts of radioactive iodine has been spewing directly into the Pacific Ocean from a large crack discovered Saturday in a six-foot-deep pit at the coastal plant north of Tokyo. The pit is next to the seawater intake pipes at the No. 2 reactor. After an unsuccessful attempt to flood the pit with concrete to stop the leak, workers on Sunday turned to trying to plug the apparent source of the water — an underground shaft thought to lead to the damaged reactor building — with more than 120 pounds of sawdust, three garbage bags full of shredded newspaper and about nine pounds of a polymeric powder that officials said absorbed 50 times its volume of water.
Although the stopgap measure did not appear to be succeeding, workers would keep trying to stem the leak, said Hidehiko Nishiyama, deputy director general of the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency. Early Monday, workers injected a dye into a separate tunnel where contaminated water had been discovered, to determine whether that was the source of the water in the pit, said Tokyo Electric Power Company, the plant’s operator. Workers are also expected to continue efforts Monday to stop the leakage from the pit into the ocean.
Experts estimate that about seven tons an hour of radioactive water is escaping the pit.
Safety officials have said that the water, which appears to be coming from the damaged No. 2 reactor, contains one million becquerels per liter of iodine 131, or about 10,000 times the levels normally found in water at a nuclear plant. “There is still a steady stream of water from the pit,” Mr. Nishiyama said, but workers would continue to “observe and evaluate” the situation overnight. "
And here is Tepcos announcement of the same from the 21 of April.
"TEPCO Revealed on Thursday Radioactive Water 20,000 Times the Legal Limit Leaked in to the Ocean from the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Plant in early April. 5,000 terabecquerels of radioactive substances or 520 tons of contaminated water was leaked. The leak is estimated to have lasted for six days through April 6."
As for which version is most correct? We will have to assume that Tepco realize that it's very hard to lie about radioactivity, even if it's leaking into the ocean. So I'll go with what they say until proven otherwise. And the ocean can take care of it, it's like oil catastrophes. The best cleansing isn't our human efforts. They are puny compared to what a ocean can do, and better still, it never stops its work. At least that is the experience we have in Sweden as I understand. That doesn't mean one can ignore it, and what it might do to the underwater vegetation? Still, the ocean have its own ways of dealing with it, long range ways. But the same will count for this radiation, even though the ocean will dilute it away, a lot of it might have been taken up by the bottom & vegetation so my guess is that they will have a hot-spot there, for quite some time.
And finally Workers enter Japan reactor for 1st time since blast. (No.1 reactor ) (http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Workers+enter+Japan+reactor+time+since+blast/4732257/story.html)
-
Acronyms you always wanted to know, hey? (https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/~gpetitpas/Links/Astroacro.html)
-
Feeling too serious today?
The world hanging over your shoulder.
0n your shoulder?
This will help. (http://animalsbeingdicks.com/page/14)
-
LOL...LOL..Thats funny,,,,, Thanks Yor_on!
-
I don't know about you but I need a break here. Something that always make me smile is a cool game. There's a lot of nice online games out there, but not so many that suits a laptop (which I have) and are --Free--
Anyway, enough complaining. Here's a game with a twist, and rocks? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEt_0WZ4Tbo&feature=player_embedded#at=74)
==
And here's the text.
Mum mum mum mah
Mum mum mum mah
Mum mum mum mah
Mum mum mum mah
I wanna raid 'em like they do in the old days
Stun 'em sheep 'em sap 'em kite 'em mind control with me
Cast rejuvenation on the pally as she starts
And after she's been healed I'll be the one to heal her heart
Oh, oh, oh, oh, ohhhh, ohh-oh-e-ohh-oh-oh
I'll cast some HoTs, while she tanks the boss
Oh, oh, oh, oh, ohhhh, ohh-oh-e-ohh-oh-oh,
I'll cast some HoTs, while she tanks the boss
Can't beat my, Can't beat my
Can't beat my roll on that epic mace
(He just rolled 100)
Can't beat my, Can't beat my
Can't beat my roll on that epic mace
(He just rolled 100)
Ep-ep-ep-epic mace, ep-ep-epic mace
(Mum mum mum mah)
Ep-ep-ep-epic mace, ep-ep-epic mace
(Mum mum mum mah)
I wanna pug with her a leet pair we will be
Try a random dungeon and were queued up instantly
Grouped up with a huntard who still needs to fix his gun
'Cuz baby when we pug, if we don't wipe, it isn't fun
Oh, oh, oh, oh, ohhhh, ohh-oh-e-ohh-oh-oh
I'll cast some HoTs, while she tanks the boss
Oh, oh, oh, oh, ohhhh, ohh-oh-e-ohh-oh-oh,
I'll cast some HoTs, while she tanks the boss
Can't beat my, Can't beat my
Can't beat my roll on that epic mace
(He just rolled 100)
Can't beat my, Can't beat my
Can't beat my roll on that epic mace
(He just rolled 100)
Ep-ep-ep-epic mace, ep-ep-epic mace
(Mum mum mum mah)
Ep-ep-ep-epic mace, ep-ep-epic mace
(Mum mum mum mah)
I won't tell you that you're laggin'
but I'm braggin'
Cause they're spankin' while you're tankin'
I'm not lying I'm just HoTing with my sick heal-botting
Just like a jerk trolling in trade chat
steal your mount and then I transfer out
I promise this, promise this
Check my armoury I don't exist
Can't beat my, Can't beat my
Can't beat my roll on that epic mace
(He just rolled 100)
Can't beat my, Can't beat my
Can't beat my roll on that epic mace
(He just rolled 100)
Can't beat my, Can't beat my
Can't beat my roll on that epic mace
(He just rolled 100)
Can't beat my, Can't beat my
Can't beat my roll on that epic mace
(He just rolled 100)
Can't beat my, Can't beat my
Can't beat my roll on that epic mace
(He just rolled 100)
Can't beat my, Can't beat my
Can't beat my roll on that epic mace
(He just rolled 100)
Ep-ep-ep-epic mace, ep-ep-epic mace
(Mum mum mum mah)
Ep-ep-ep-epic mace, ep-ep-epic mace
(Mum mum mum mah)
Ep-ep-ep-epic mace, ep-ep-epic mace
(Mum mum mum mah)
Ep-ep-ep-epic mace, ep-ep-epic mace
(Mum mum mum mah)
Ep-ep-ep-epic mace, ep-ep-epic mace
(Mum mum mum mah)
Ep-ep-ep-epic mace, ep-ep-epic mace
(Mum mum mum mah)
Thats an interesting song! Can;t say as I understand it all but it does make you think...
-
T h i s i s a D o u b l e p o s t.
And I'm making it both in 'environment', and here. It's also probably the most important post I will make on this site :)
It's about your weather, Earth's climate, and what temperatures our kids might meet somewhere around 2100. It's also about the way the internet should be used, as a place where we all can meet and help each other out. And it's seriously geek cool :) as a added bonus.
The idea behind this site is statistics. Actually, to me, it resembles the way they found the dropped atom bombs outside Spain. I think they named it the Monte Carlo method. It was quite simple, using their best predictions and computer methods they still couldn't find the last bomb, so what they did was making it into a educated guessing contest, where people bet on where they thought the bomb might be. And then they took the result of the competition and started a search where the most people had guessed it might be, and found it, in the approximate area. It might seem slightly confusing, but it has be shown that when you take a large number of opinions on a matter, educated or not, you will find that the answer that crystallises out more often than not, have a statistical significance, coincident with the correct answer, all as I understands it.
So what this site does is to work with all of those slight variations of climate models we already have, spreading them out on home computers, all over the world, to then collect the results and look at how they 'clump together' into a pattern. Those 'patterns' will, according to this model, show a statistical significance pointing to what will become the most probable temperature increase. And it works, the theory as such has been proven several times, on several different occasions. So, this guy sat and tried to create a program such as those climate models could be run on our normal pc:s. and while he sat there our computers became more and more powerful, and in the end those two meet, and this is the result.
It's a brilliant idea and you joining it will be one of the hundreds of thousand creating a virtual 'super computer' doing what no super computer today can do, count on those probabilities and where the significance becomes largest. Do you get it, by joining you will do something NASA, ECHELON, NORAD, NSA, ad infinitum, can't. Your PC will be a part of one of the coolest virtual super computers on Earth. And all for a really good purpose. And we need this answer.
Climateprediction.net (http://climateprediction.net/)
-
So we know that there is something brewing right?
No, I don't mean ale. Those weird scientists, I mean, I may be somewhat odd but .. ..
Take a look at this.. Will CERN awaken the Elder Gods? (http://www.askamathematician.com/2012/04/q-will-cern-awaken-the-elder-gods/)
I just knew there was something strange going on there..
-
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhttp.cdn.bluevervet.net%2Fc151im%2Fphotos%2FFS%2FSPV9293.jpg&hash=4d86a6144dc65049c2a3dd0eedcc10a8)
and yes I counted them 1000 words
-
As good a description of a woman as any I would say.
One thousand words, making one woman, three important :)
(Ouch, wasn't me, somebody else must have written this..)
=
And his spelling syx !!
-
beauty Marylin.. She certainly was a beauty!
-
Now, some of you might hate, well maybe not me personally, but at least the sheer chutzpah of someone calling your FaceBook account 'evil' but I think this guy got it right. Read it through first.
In Which Eben Moglen Like, Legit Yells at Me for Having Facebook. (http://www.betabeat.com/2011/12/13/in-which-eben-moglen-like-legit-yells-at-me-for-being-on-facebook/)
The problem isn't in the idea of connecting services, more in the way they get used, and the way FB 'own' whatever you publish. Nothing is owned by you there, even though they tell you, it's 'yours' :)
-
So how do you circumvent it?
Well you can make fake accounts of course, but it won't matter. You create a structure of sorts, like a network of nodes, by whom you will interact with, and what you do and say anyway. Your name isn't important for that, although after a while it will be fairly easy for anyone having access to that information to track you down.
So, if you go up on social networks, understand one thing. They are not there for you to be a happy consumer. Ah well, in a way they are, but in a dictatorship they will become the strands that fetters you.
==
And what may be worse, the strands that fetters those that trust you as you put them up.
-
Take a look at this example :)
Ah well..
Luluvise's date-rating site shows where your Facebook data can end up. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2012/feb/08/date-rating-site-data-protection-act?newsfeed=true)
Sort of embarrassing funny, but if they get it, what more agencies and sites? And it's 'commercially available' too..
-
What you need to see here is that in a statistical research, in where you are guaranteed anonymity, you actually are anonymous. But if the same company constantly sent you requests and also logged from where, or in some way marked your answer with a unique code your answers slowly would start to lose their anonymity. And if everything you do becomes uniquely marked in some way, well forget privacy.
There will be no such thing.
-
Hopefully this will pluck a smile from you.
Don't know what to make of it but it sure sounds fun.
Especially "No Cyborgs beyond this point." "Human infants taste terrible!" "Chlorine-breathing reptoids out of US Congress!"
A Human IR Vision Experiment.. (http://amasci.com/amateur/irgoggl.html)
Enjoy..
-
Fukushima..
I don't know what to make of this but you better read it..
As this else may be what some of us may end up with, or even worse?
A reality check. (http://www.wentz.net/radiate/cheyla/index.htm)
Read this and make sure to check out the links in a time wise order.
Nuclear engineer Arnie Gundersen took 5 random soil samples in Tokyo recently, and found that all 5 were so radioactive that they would be considered radioactive waste in the United States, which would have to be specially disposed of at a facility in Texas: (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/03/tokyo-soil-hit-with-fukushima-radiation-would-be-considered-radioactive-waste-in-the-united-states.html)
And now this one, but? (http://www.infowars.com/fukushima-is-falling-apart-are-you-ready-for-a-mass-extinction-event/)
I still find it extremely hard to wrap my head around this idea.
But it's certainly much worse than I expected, which ever way I turn it around...
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For those of you wondering about MOX.
It's a blend of uranium and plutonium. You inhale plutonium, you probably will die. Hold it and it's okay, eat it and ? It's not very okay, but you have a fair chance, inhale it and it gets into your bloodstreams through your lungs.
""MOX" refers to "mixed oxide nuclear fuel." The fuel consists of two types of oxygen-containing compounds able to undergo nuclear fission reactions — specifically, uranium oxide blended with a small amount of plutonium oxide.
Whereas low-enriched uranium remains the primary fuel burned in nuclear reactors worldwide, MOX came into use in the 1980s as a way of disposing of surplus weapons-grade plutonium. There are some 260 tonnes of military plutonium in world stockpiles which, if they weren't used as fuel, would have to be disposed of as nuclear waste.
Another attraction of MOX lies in the fact that plutonium is much more "fissile" than low-enriched uranium: Its atomic nuclei undergo fission — split into smaller parts, releasing heat — with more ease. One kilogram of Pu-239, an isotope of plutonium, can produce sufficient heat to generate nearly 10 million kilowatt-hours of electricity.
One facility where purely-uranium fuel gets reprocessed to become MOX is the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant in Japan. Reactor Unit 3 burns MOX fuel made of 94 percent uranium and 6 percent plutonium.
MOX fuel rods in a spent fuel pool at Fukushima are causing grave concern. The latest chapter in a catastrophic chain of events since the power plant was damaged by Friday's massive 9.0 earthquake, workers are unable to keep the MOX rods in the spent fuel pool sufficiently cool, and if they start to burn, plutonium, an especially dangerous radioactive substance, will be released into the environment."
And plutonium is extremely flammable in a moist environment as I understands it.
"In addition to causing cancer, passing on mutations to the next generation and its potential applications in the development of nuclear weapons, plutonium is also highly flammable. If stored in a moist environment, it will react with water in the air to form hydrides on its metallic surface, which can even ignite at room temperature. Plutonium is one of the most dangerous substances known to humanity, and must be kept under the strictest of controls for the safety of all. The EPA's website also contains information on the dangers of plutonium, emphasising the danger of inhaling plutonium dust."
From What is MOX. (http://www.lifeslittlemysteries.com/1221-what-is-mox-nuclear-reactors.html)
What makes plutonium 239 dangerous is its life length. It emits heavy alpha particles that although, doesn't penetrate skin, if ingested or/and especially breathed in, will accumulate specifically in bone, liver, bone marrow, where it stays as I understands it. Emitting heavy particles destroying and mutating the cells greatly increasing the risk of lung cancer, liver cancer and bone sarcoma. Deposited in bone marrow it will destroy the blood formation which takes place there, Many of the blood cells that populate the arteries and veins are born and mature within the bone marrow which also are the origin of our stem cells, you know, those that can create about anything your body needs. Plutonium enter surface water from accidental releases and disposal of radioactive wastes. Soil becomes contaminated through fallout. Plutonium moves slowly downwards in the soil, into the groundwater. So it travels as 'dust' in the air, falls down on the ground to enter the groundwater.
Plants don't seem to take up very much plutonium so it don't seem to build up in concentration through the food chain from grass to cow to us or, as in even longer chains. But the 'dust' will kill, it's only a question of time.
Plutonium. (http://www.ieer.org/ensec/no-3/puhealth.html)
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Ready for some background?
If you're like me you kind of assumed that it would be similar to Chernobyl in that they would cover it up. But they can't, the only thing they can do is pour water over it. And that water takes with it plutonium, into the ocean, and up in the air. Not only Japan will get a increase in cancer. Depending on streams and winds we all might get a dose. I'm starting to rethink the way I looked at the waste problem. I never dreamed that it could spread so easily as it seems to have done. America has been hit by plutonium for?
"Iodine, cesium, strontium, plutonium, uranium, and a host of other fission products have been coming directly from Japan to the west coast for thirteen months.
Maybe you have heard about sick seals, polar bears, tainted fish, mutations in dandelions and fruits and vegetables, possibly even animals already, and seaweed. In fact the kelp from Corona del Mar contained 40,000,000 bcq/kg of radioactive iodine, as reported in Scientific American several weeks ago.
If you don’t know your becquerels, its a lot. That’s what your pacific fish feed on. And that was only ONE isotope reported. There were up to 1600 different isotopes that have been floating around in our air, pouring out of the reactors, and steaming out of the ground, every second of every day, for 13 months.
And there has been silence from our mainstream media, for which the depths of depravity are so severe I will devote an entire article just to the “why” at a future time.
But back to the research: reports in the past week indicate the pollen in southern California is radioactive now too, and it is flying around, and if you live there and go outside, you are breathing it in. And so are your children.
Along with fission products blowing over from Japan. And radiation in your drinking water. And in your rain. And in the fish you are eating. And your vegetables. And the milk supply. And its happening every second, of every day. For 13 months. Are you starting to see a problem here?" according to 'Fukushima Is Falling Apart: Are You Ready ...'
I doubt it will kill us off, but some of us are going to be very sick puppy's sometime in the future. And what it will do to pregnancies I don't know? But it will get into the fetus bloodstream as a guess through the mother.
Nuclear power?
We better reconsider the problems here. It's not only the accidents.
By Shirley Birney
" It is easy to blame Russia's mismanagement when facts are obscured on the twenty nuclear accidents which have caused significant radioactive fallout. Fourteen of the nuclear accidents were not related to Russia:
Fukushima: Japan – scale 7
Chalk River – Canada -5
Windscale UK – (2 RA fallouts scale 4 and 5)
Simi Valley USA 5-6
TMI USA 5
Idaho Falls USA (2 RA fallouts - scale 4 and 4)
Monroe USA 4
Lucens Switzerland 4-5
Saint-Laurent France 4
Buenos Aires Argentina 4
Tokaimura Japan 4
Jaslovske Bohunice Czech Republic 4
Scientists at the Max Planck Institute for Chemistry in Mainz Germany (and publishing this month in the Atmospheric Chemistry and Physics journal) have calculated that a nuclear meltdown in one of the reactors in operation worldwide is likely to occur once in 10 to 20 years (based on the current number of reactors) — some 200 times more often than estimated in the past.
And that previously the occurrence of INES 7 major accidents and the risks of radioactive contamination have been underestimated.
“"Germany's exit from the nuclear energy program will reduce the national risk of radioactive contamination. However, an even stronger reduction would result if Germany's neighbours were to switch off their reactors," says Jos Lelieveld. "Not only do we need an in-depth and public analysis of the actual risks of nuclear accidents. In light of our findings I believe an internationally coordinated phasing out of nuclear energy should also be considered," adds the atmospheric chemist.”
http://www.mpg.de/5809418/reactor_accidents"
But it's the waste problem that's even worse. We can dismantle unsafe power plants, although it will cost us enormous sums to do it, but, that will only add to the problem of where to store all that radioactive waste. But still, I don't think we have a real choice here. We will have to do something about it.
I'm not solely speaking about plutonium 239 when I speak about radioactive waste, it's just that it 'survives' for a very long time and so become one of our longest existing problems, and it's a man made problem, not a natural. But there are all kind of wastes associated with nuclear reactors, all of them dangerous. Have a look.
nuclear-waste by National Geographic. (http://science.nationalgeographic.com/science/earth/inside-the-earth/nuclear-waste/)
So, wastes produced in the reactor core, in radioactive contamination, and wastes produced as a bi-product of uranium mining, refining, and enrichment. And then we come to the environmentalism of it.
A critical survey by Benjamin K. Sovacool
Valuing the greenhouse gas emissions from nuclear power: (http://www.nirs.org/climate/background/sovacool_nuclear_ghg.pdf)
But the most and worst radiation comes from the spent fuel rods, about 99% as I understands it. After the uranium has been used up in the new rods the remaining mixture in a fuel rod will have split into various isotopes of almost all of the transition metals in the periodic table of elements.
"Fukushima is the biggest industrial catastrophe in the history of mankind," Arnold Gundersen, a former nuclear industry senior vice president, told Al Jazeera. (http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2011/06/201161664828302638.html)
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Now, we've had discussions about mutations on TNS before, haven't we :)
You better read this one too. Mutations: evolution’s engine becomes evolution’s end. (http://creation.com/mutations-are-evolutions-end)
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Against this reasoning one can find Examples of Beneficial Mutations and Natural Selection. (http://www.gate.net/~rwms/EvoMutations.html)
So what about radiation?
Well, didn't find that much, but it seems as if low doses of radiation can be handled by cells.
"low-doses induce adaptive protection against DNA damage and its accumulation in tissue, mainly from endogenous, i.e. ‘‘spontaneous’’ sources, and that these can counterbalance radiation effects. The net risk of cancer becomes lower than predicted by the LNT-hypothesis, or even negative with more benefit than damage to the low-dose exposed system." Evidence for beneficial low level radiation effects and radiation. (http://bjr.birjournals.org/content/78/925/3.full.pdf)
So what conclusions can you draw? Depends on the dosage of radiation, doesn't it?
The next step should be to find what dosages/concentrations of Alpha particles that one then should consider harmful?
And that one seems pretty tricky as it also must have to do with whom you are, your age, overall health etc.
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This seems a very difficult field to master as there are so many conflicting ideas about it?
One need to differ between different radiations.
"During the decay of plutonium, three types of radiation are released: Alpha, beta & gamma (radiation). Alpha particles can travel only a short distance & cannot travel through human skin (but they can be inhaled or ingested). Beta particles can penetrate human skin, but they cannot go all the way through the body. Gamma radiation can go all the way through the body.” It is noteworthy that these radioactive particles, some with a half-time of 24.000 years or more can be re-activated into the air or water during forest-fires or tsunamis, making them dangerous for future generations. "
And that point is worth noticing, once plutonium gets into the natural cycle from groundwater to water streams, to air to rain, to earth to groundwater again, it will keep on doing this for at least ten half cycles before becoming 'harmless', that's 240 000 years.
Then there is the question if it was the MOX core that exploded in reactor 3?
steam-explosion theory. (http://iangoddard.com/fukushima01.html)
Well, I hope there are people measuring the alpha radiation and keeping good journals over it locally. We can then start to assemble statistics over future cancer related cases comparing it to the local radiation to gain some real practical knowledge, which sounds slightly morbid, but still necessary. The Alpha radiation is already here in any case, both in Europe as well as in the States so we better use it for something 'positive', relatively speaking now.
At least we will get good statistics from it, telling us what the costs of this kind of accidents can be. And you need to consider the loss of working hours and the cost of hospitalizing for a society to see what the real costs are, now ignoring the loss of quality of life.
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The we have the more short lived substances as Cesium-137 and Strontium. "If C-137 gets into the air from a reactor core breach, it could reach Tokyo in a matter of hours, and possibly USA within 36 hours. C-137 has a half-time of 30 years." Which then mean applying a similar formula of half life that it will be toxic to all life for somewhere around two to three centuries. Strontium has a half life of 28 years so it should come out about the same.
"Iodine-131 may give a higher initial dose, but its short halflife of 8 days ensures that it will soon be gone. Besides its persistence and high activity, cesium-137 has the further insidious property of being mistaken for potassium by living organisms and taken up as part of the fluid electrolytes. This means that it is passed on up the food chain and reconcentrated from the environment by that process. . . Cesium's danger as an environmental hazard, damaging when ingested, is made worse by it's mimicing of potassium's chemical properties. This ensures that cesium as a contaminant will be ingested, because potassium is needed by all living things. . .Strontium-90 mimics the properties of calcium and is taken up by living organisms and made a part of their electrolytes as well as deposited in bones. As a part of the bones, it is not subsequently excreted like cesium-137 would be. It has the potential for causing cancer or damaging the rapidly reproducing bone marrow cells." From Physics.org. (http://www.physics.org/explorelink.asp?id=3989&q=fragment¤tpage=1&age=0&knowledge=0&item=3)
'
I better point out that Iodine-131 targets the thyroid, leaving both young children and elderly at high risk for thyroid cancer.
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So, do this mean I don't trust nuclear power?
Yep, it does.
But, there are reactor types that are better. But the one the military once wanted was the ones that could produce weapon grade plutonium, so that is what we got today, which we now bitterly regret as a guess. There were, and are, alternatives that didn't do this. and according to what I read didn't produce radioactive waste with half lengths of 24000 years, as The Molten Salt Reactor Family. (http://theenergycollective.com/charlesbarton/56493/molten-salt-reactor-family-uranium-fuel) China who is in dire need of new cleaner energy sources believes in the thorium-fueled molten-salt nuclear reactor. (http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/02/china-thorium-power/) and I think they thought long and hard before deciding to choose.
So, to summarize it. I think that what we have today in form of nuclear power are ticking time bombs, all that I know of at least. But I won't say the same for this design, although I can't say what other deficients it might hide in its design, or waste products, as I haven't really studied it.
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Can't help but wonder here. Will those mutations introduced be defined to each persons body solely or will they be able to rearrange genes? By that i mean introduce mutations in sperm and eggs that follow you and your offspring into the future. The natural background radiation of Earth has raised, just as our man made portion of CO2 has. Sort of telling isn't it? Two of the really bad choices we could make, not that we understood the implications of CO2 then, but when it comes to radiation? Some did know, or at least suspected that radiation could become a problem.
So, is it a problem? (http://www.naturalnews.com/030607_naked_body_scanners_radiation.html) I do expect you who read it to have a mind of your own, using it.
Shows us that greed and fear seldom should make the choices for you, better to give it some time and think it through, but, that doesn't fit our life style. We're geared to making money, get a family and/or offspring and then die. And to do it, as we are a male dominated society, we guys run around in mazes most of our life, having little time to contemplate what we really would have liked to do if we really had had a chance to think about it.
Money and greed runs society, with the help of organized religion, that promise you that even though you didn't come out a winner 'here', you can still do it 'there'. The only thing we have controlling greed is the 'state' and its bureaucracy, and that hangs on what type of government one have, as well as if corruption is accepted or not. All states have corruption though, in a western society it may not be money per se, but 'services rendered & exchanged' etc. But that will still be a way to 'get ahead', and 'win' in the competition for money and power, as well as fair maidens :)
It sux.
There should be something more to life.
Anyone heard about those evil Somalia pirates looting and taking hostages?
Well, that, sux too. But as always there are mitigating circumstances, some of them quite blatant, being us from the rich side of life targeting their livelihood, and even future lives. Wonder what America would do if other countries would do the same at them? Do take a look, and you will see why I write about it. (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2008/10/2008109174223218644.html)
And you girls want the same life as us guys right?
Because that's 'progress' :)
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And No, to lay our fears to rest.
I don't expect this kind of airborne nuclear waste to be able to introduce mutations to sperm and eggs. They target specific places in the body, none of them those, and the radiation is very short range in its effects. But what about the long time elevated 'natural background radiation' we added too? That's where I feel more unsure.
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Bear with me now, my mind is rambling all around here, and I'm not sure at all. It's easy when you restrict yourself, and mostly that is a demand for doing science. Defining your 'system'.
But there is something more, that I find quite unpleasant, that I'm starting to wonder about.
Nuclear power plants plutonium?
As that is their main 'waste product'.
"Many people may not realize that every nuclear power plant -- as a normal part of the fissioning process -- produces plutonium. Plutonium and/or highly-enriched uranium are essential ingredients of nuclear bombs.
Every year the thousand-megawatt Callaway reactor in Missouri, for example, produces an estimated 293 kilograms of plutonium 1. -- enough plutonium every year to make forty nuclear bombs (each containing about 7.3 kilograms [16 pounds] of mixed isotopes of plutonium per bomb). If the nuclear power reactor continues operating for a total of 30 years, it will have produced enough plutonium for at least 1200 bombs."
Forget about the bombs, that's not the problem.
Somalia is, and all other places where unscrupulous, really tremendously stupid, people may have dumped 'nuclear waste'.
What abut cancer, is it on the raise? And what types if so?
"Global rates of cancer could rise 50 percent to 15 million new cases a year by 2020, but one-third can be cured and another third prevented by curbing infections and through lifestyle changes, experts said on Thursday. Once considered a largely "Western" disease, cancer now affects and kills more people in the developing world than in industrialized nations. In many countries it accounts for more than a quarter of all deaths.
But according to the World Cancer Report, with existing knowledge it is possible to prevent at least one third of the 10 million cancer cases that occur each year throughout the world. "By 2020 there will be a 50 percent increase in the number of people diagnosed with cancer unless steps are taken now," said Dr. Bernard Stewart, a co-editor of report. "The overall message is that we can prevent a third of cancers, we can probably cure a third of cancers, and for the remainder we can certainly do something for quality of life if pain management is adequate," he told a news conference. "
Tobacco huh? Your choice of food :)
Well, ah, eh, if we ingest (and inhale) plutonium I would definitely deem it a 'change of foods'.
There were a lot of more smokers twenty years ago, at least in our western society's. And in those others? Maybe not, but still? Statistics is a very tricky game, in that even though you might easily spot a 'trend' to prove why that trend exist becomes a puzzle where a lot of the pieces you choose are questionable by others.
That's why that uncomfortable Russian report from Chernobyl also seems questionable to some, although personally I'm pretty sure they are on to something, more correct than what we are given by asking those thinking they have the 'clearer picture of the dangers of nuclear waste'.
Here's a rather typical answer, as in a accepted peer reviewed standard way of telling you off :)
And no, it's in no way uninformed. Just one eyed.
Could you explain what you mean by "all fission fuel cycle with reprocessing / recycle"?
The wastes we have have must be safely stored for centuries and isolated from the living environment for hundreds of thousand years as I understands it?.
Yor_on,
Actually you DO NOT have to store waste for thousands of years IF you reprocess / recycle.
The reason for the storage time of many thousands of years is that some of the waste products -
the actinides like Plutonium - have very long half lives. Plutonium-239 has a half life of 24,000 years;
hence the long storage time. However, Plutonium-239 is good as a reactor FUEL. You don't have to store the Plutonium-239 - you can use it as FUEL in a reactor. In the reactor, the Plutonium-239 will fission and turn into short lived fission products - the longest lived of which is Cesium-137 with a half life of 30 years.
Sweden should get France, or Britain, or Japan to reprocess their spent fuel so it can be recycled.
When you reprocess / recycle spent nuclear fuel - you don't have any more "many thousand year
disposal problem". ALL those long lived isotopes can be burned and turned into short lived problems
in the appropriate reactors - like Argonne's Integral Fast Reactor; the IFR:
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Sounds good doesn't it?
So let's take a look.
"While reading through a back issue of "Discovery" magazine, April 94, I came across an short article concerning the Integral Fast Reactor as a promising "new" technology. What ever became of this technology?"
"Replies: I will answer this question by referring you to a web site and by repeating a question-and-answer session from a previous ask-a-scientist response. The web site is http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/ifr.html, the "unofficial IFR home page," which can tell you what happened to the project and give a little background on the reactor design itself. The question-and-answer session I will duplicate here just because the inrformation is easily at hand.
Is the IFR considered renewable?
It isn't renewable in the sense that you can plant seeds in the ground and grow nuclear fuel from them. However, as a "breeder" reactor, it does make plutonium 239, which can be used as nuclear fuel, from uranium 238, which cannot be used as a nuclear fuel.
Can it recycle its wastes?
Just the plutonium and heavier elements. Some wastes, such as fission products, need to be removed and disposed of. However, this is a tremendous advantage over conventional nuclear power plants, as the components of the spent fuel that are the most hazardous over the long term are used as fuel, converting them into less hazardous materials and getting energy from them is the process.
Can IFR wastes be used in nuclear weapons?
The IFR recycles all the elements it makes that can be used in nuclear weapons, so they don't go into the waste stream.
What is usually used?
Nuclear weapons require "fissile" nuclei, which split apart, releasing energy and neutrons when contacted with slow-moving neutrons. Thge three "fissile" nuclei that I know of are uranium-235, uranium-233, and plutonium-239. Uranium-235 is obtained by painstakingly purifying ("enriching") it from natural uranium which is about 0.71% uranium-235. Uranium-233 is made from thorium-232 by bombarding it with neutrons. Plutonium 239 is made by bombarding uranium-238 with neutrons. This happens in nuclear reactors, because most of the uranium in nuclear fuel is uranium 238.
If not, could it be processed to be usable for weapons?
The actual waste from IFR would be useless for making weapons. However, IFR fuel must be removed periodically to be reprocessed, to take out the waste materials that interfere with the nuclear reaction. (IFR consumes much more of the fuel before these wastes cause a problem than conventional reactors can.) This spent fuel could, in principle, be further processed to isolate the fissile materials that could be used in a nuclear weapon.
Richard Barrans Jr., Ph.D. .
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(took away some of the Q not specific to the subject at hand here) From
DOE office of scientists. (http://newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/phy99/phy99xx7.htm)
What was that? "However, as a "breeder" reactor, it does make plutonium 239, which can be used as nuclear fuel, from uranium 238, which cannot be used as a nuclear fuel."
So we would 'hit it' with 'MOX' instead right, (well, only pure plutonium in this case as I understands it as it is a 'breeder') from those other nuclear power plants. And then it would 'eat it up' and in the mean time produce nuclear waste consisting amongst others of, eh? Plutonium?
Does that really sound that different from what Fukushima did, to you? It doesn't to me at least. They used other nuclear plants plutonium, mixed with uranium, to feed their reactor 3, which exploded. It can only be a question of what quantities it can eat, the ratio of plutonium produced as waste relative the rate it got feed. And no, it doesn't exist any more.
So?
How many barrels of plutonium, or , nuclear waste, has gone missing, officially?
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You have to be really, really, stupid to miss the importance of this question.
Or incredibly 'one eyed' bordering on ??
Plutonium in peace.
Plutonium in war.
Two different things. The military and those powers that be wanted one type of reactor once, not that long ago. As a result the design more or less got copied all over the world, even though there are differences all I'm aware of produce plutonium as their 'waste'.
But in a peace, what do you do with the so hotly wanted 'waste'?
That's what we see now.
I would like to get the guys thinking this scheme up behind bars as 'enemies to humanity'. Or rather 'enemies to life'. Because that is what the 240 000 years recycling of alpha particles will do to us. And they must have known what alpha particles was and might do, if not directly in the beginning then after some decade.
How long has homo sapiens been around?
Well "Around 250000 years ago Homo erectus disappears from the fossil record."
Ahh, and now we have a similar time period for plutonium.
The hitchhikers guide couldn't have done it any better than this.
If I'm right, which I don't want to be,
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We better have a 'infinite world' because that seems to be the assumption underlying all those idiots actions, from CO2 to Nuclear Waste. The former USSR dumped theirs everywhere, and in the oceans. Around Arctic there should be , or will be, several 'hot spots'.
And we are the new 'care takers' are we?
Sure you wanna rent us?
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We are definitely going to have a increase in cancer, Fukushima ignored for this. And so the question becomes, give me a example of nuclear, working practically, facility that won't produce this sh1t. By working practically I just mean that we need to have tested some proto-type and seen it work.
And do you have a answer to what to do with the 'waste' you will produce, even if the life cycles 'only' is some hundreds of years? You better have because I have a surprise for you.
Earth isn't infinite.
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Which brings me back to my last and very pragmatical point. And this is the question of where the limit of survival for our species, as we are now, goes.
Assume that for bearing a kid and taking care of it, and also be able to give it a rudimentary education, there will be a 'mini living span'. Because that is how I look at it.
Where does it go?
Well, I would say it depends on what level of education you want that school to present. In our modern society, if you go for some higher education, I would expect you to be around 25- 30 when coming out. And we need your teachers alive too, don't you agree?
And that's it. 25 + ? 15? maybe, as a shortest life span. It's a complicated society today, it's not Victorian. The level of knowledge you need to do something complicated never ends actually, but that was as true in Victorian times :)
But I would guess our limit goes around a lifespan of forty years of age, for keeping the knowledge we have.
And that's the pragmatical pain limit for taking care of what we have as I suspect. Maybe not exploring new borders, but at least being able to handle all those nuclear power plants we probably are going to build, as the resources are 'limit less' :) as well as all other advanced technology we may need.
Anything under that and we will disappear, at least as we are today.
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So what do I feel looking at us?
I want the best for my kids, and yours. I want us to have peace, using atom bombs would be a incredibly stupid thing, and those believing that they can't live in peace without them I would like to to give another planet if I could. Because I don't really feel I need that kind of people around me, their mindset reminds me of homicidal maniacs or sociopaths (formerly psychopaths).'
And you don't want those inside your living space.
=
So you better take a look at yourself, as I do, and ask what you want out of life.
Because that's the only way we're going to change, it's not politics doing changes, it's people.
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So what about those Thorium plants that China, and possibly Japan, want to build?
China's Thorium Reactor and Japan's targets 10 MW thorium miniFuji for 2016. (http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/02/chinas-thorium-reactor-and-japans.html)
Well, it's BS that they don't produce the raw material to a atomic bomb. But it's true, if you by that mean that they don't produce Plutonium? So what do they produce as a waste product?
uranium-233.
"The radioactive waste from the thorium reactor contains vastly less long-lived radioactive material than that from conventional reactors. In particular, plutonium is completely absent absent from the thorium reactor's waste. While the radioactivity during the first few days is likely to be similar to that in conventional reactors, there is at least a ten-fold reduction of radioactivity in the waste products after 100 years, and a 10,000 fold reduction after 500 years. From a waste storage point of view, this is a significant advantage."
In the thorium fuel cycle, the waste products are:
§ 71.2% Irradiated thorium oxide
§ 12% Fission products
§ 16.8% Uranium-233
Sounds good?
Well yeah, but?
Uranium 233 at the Hanford Nuclear site. (http://www.doh.wa.gov/ehp/rp/factsheets/factsheets-pdf/fs34u233han.pdf)
And
"Thorium is generally accepted as proliferation resistant compared to U-Pu cycles. The problem with plutonium is that it can be chemically separated from the waste and perhaps used in bombs. It is publicly known that even reactor-grade plutonium can be made into a bomb if done carefully. By avoiding plutonium altogether, thorium cycles are superior in this regard. Besides avoiding plutonium, Thorium has additional self-protection from the hard gamma rays emitted due to U-232 as discussed above. This makes stealing Thorium based fuels more challenging. Also, the heat from these gammas makes weapon fabrication difficult, as it is hard to keep the weapon pit from melting due to its own heat.
The one hypothetical proliferation concern with Thorium fuel though, is that the Protactinium can be chemically separated shortly after it is produced and removed from the neutron flux (the path to U-233 is Th-232 -> Th-233 -> Pa-233 -> U-233). Then, it will decay directly to pure U-233. By this challenging route, one could obtain weapons material. But Pa-233 has a 27 day half-life, so once the waste is safe for a few times this, weapons are out of the question. So concerns over people stealing spent fuel are eliminated by Th, but the possibility of the owner of a Th-U reactor obtaining bomb material is not. "
A half life of 160 000 years? times what? 3-10?
Which then would give a absolute cycle of 4.5 - 16 million years?
So does uranium 233 emits alpha particles?
Yep.
And Gamma.
"Unlike Pu239, U232 emits more gamma over time, and becomes more dangerous. This makes any handling of U232, and by extension any waste material from the thorium fuel cycle, virtually impossible to handle. To put it into perspective for the reader, a critical mass of plutonium waste product can be handled with a standard glove box, whereas a critical mass of U233 (approximately 5 kilograms) would contain enough U232 content (approximately 1%), that after 10 years, lead shielding of 17 meters in thickness would be required for handling. Without this lead shielding, any human being within approximately 1.6 kilometers (1 mile) of U232 would suffer lethal exposure within 5 minutes.
Furthermore, because a critical mass of U233 would be so easily detectable, the bomb making facilities would have to be constructed several miles below the surface of the earth. U232’s gamma emissions also have a destructive effect on electronics. So, although it is technically possible to construct a bomb from U233 waste material generated by the thorium fuel cycle, it is exponentially more difficult, dangerous and expensive than using Pu239." from Fuel Characteristics Thorium. (http://thorium1.com/thorium101/fuel-characteristics.html)
So?
Well, it's no dream came true is it?
It's seems safer from a maintenance point of view but, what the he*..
It still gives us radioactive waste that won't disappear.
But still better than what we have going now.
I need to look at this a lot more. For example, what about the Irradiated thorium oxide? What radiation levels, half time etc. as well as all kinds of other aspects, some that I probably won't know until later.
And we still have Alpha, as well as Gamma, radiation to consider.
What is thorium nuclear fuel? (http://www.whatisnuclear.com/articles/thorium.html)
Thorium: Is It the Better Nuclear Fuel? (http://www.cavendishscience.org/bks/nuc/thrupdat.htm)
Fuel Characteristics. (http://thorium1.com/thorium101/fuel-characteristics.html)
So let me come back to this, when I have had some time to assimilate the ideas behind it. For now I'm not that happy with it. You can make bombs, which I would prefer not to be possible. It emits both Alpha and Gamma radiation, and uranium233 seems extremely long lived.
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For those of you really wanting to take a dive into this.
The decay chain of 233U itself is in the neptunium series. (http://www.answers.com/topic/radioactive-series)
And you may want to consult Radioactivity Fundamentals. (http://www.pdhengineer.com/courses/e/E-3021.pdf) ... Before that dive.
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Tell me one thing.
Who are the real 'terrorists' here? Those hypothetical one, or those responsible for the Alpha radiation we see today? To 'hunt down' hypothetical ones costs? ? At the same time as we allow our environments to become so fouled that we ..
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Why the he* should I find this a viable alternative to Plutonium?
As I read it it's no alternative at all? It may be safer in the nuclear plant, and so 'hide them', away from public scrutiny but the waste problem in form of Alpha and Gamma radiation seems even worse to me, what am I missing here?
Are you thinking of A-bombs? Don't be stupid, someone wanting to kill of this planet all they need to do is to use vaporized U232, and some suicide bombers, strategically placed. As well as the exact same can be done with Plutonium. But hopefully us humans are not t h a t stupid, or if we are? Why hasn't it been done yet? It's no secret at all, but you seem to be trying to act as if there is only 'one way' of accomplishing a 'nuclear terrorist goal'.
And that, seems to be to stop them from... M a k i n g t h e b o m b.
Really?
What are we going to do?
Look for microscopic dust.
Alpha Geiger meters perhaps :)
Sh*
"Over the first couple years after U-233 containing U-232 is processed, Th-228 builds up to a nearly constant level, balanced by its own decay. During this time the gamma emissions build up and then stabilize. Thus over a few years a fabricated mass of U-233 can build up significant gamma emissions. A 10 kg sphere of weapons grade U-233 (5 ppm U-232) could be expected to reach 11 millirem/hr at 1 meter after 1 month, 0.11 rem/hr after 1 year, and 0.20 rem/hr after 2 years. Glove-box handling of such components, as is typical of weapons assembly and disassembly work, would quickly create worker safety problems. An annual 5 rem exposure limit would be exceeded with less than 25 hours of assembly work if 2-year old U-233 were used. Even 1 month old material would require limiting assembly duties to less than 10 hours per week.
In a fully assembled weapon exposures would be reduced by absorption by the tamper, case, and other materials. In a modern light weight design this absorption would be unlikely to achieve more than a factor of 10 attenuation, making exposure to weapons assembled two years previously an occupational safety problem. The beryllium reflectors used in light weight weapons would also add to the background neutron level due to the Be-9 + gamma -> Be-8 + neutron reaction. The U-232 gammas also provide a distinctive signature that can be used to detect and track the weapons from a distance. The heavy tampers used in less sophisticated weapon designs can provide much high levels of attenuation - a factor of 100 or even 1000.
With deliberately denatured grades of U-233 produced by a thorium fuel cycle (0.5 - 1.0% U-232), very high gamma exposures would result. A 10 kg sphere of this material could be expected to reach 11 rem/hr at 1 meter after 1 month, 110 rem/hr after 1 year, and 200 rem/hr after 2 years. Handling and fabrication of such material would have to done remotely (this also true of fuel element fabrication) In an assembled weapon, even if a factor of 1000 attenuation is assumed, close contact of no more than 25 hours/year with such a weapon would be possible and remain within safety standards. This makes the diversion of such material for weapons use extremely undesirable.
The short half-life of U-232 also gives it very high alpha activity. Denatured U-233 containing 1% U-232 content has three times the alpha activity of weapon-grade plutonium, and a correspondingly higher radiotoxicity. This high alpha activity also gives rise to an even more serious neutron emission problem than the gamma/beryllium reaction mentioned above. Alpha particles interact with light element contaminants in the fissile material to produce neutrons. This process is a much less prolific generator of neutrons in uranium metal than the spontaneous fission of the Pu-240 contaminant in plutonium though.
To minimize this problem the presence of light elements (especially, beryllium, boron, fluorine, and lithium) must be kept low. This is not really a problem for U-233 used in implosion systems since the neutron background problem is smaller than that of plutonium. For gun-type bombs the required purity level for these elements is on the order of 1 part per million. Although achieving such purity is not a trivial task, it is certainly achievable with standard chemical purification techniques. The ability of the semiconductor industry to prepare silicon in bulk with a purity of better than one part per billion raises the possibility of virtually eliminating neutron emissions by sufficient purification.
U-233 has a spontaneous fission rate of 0.47 fissions/sec-kg. U-232 has a spontaneous fission rate of 720 fissions-sec/kg.
Despite the gamma and neutron emission drawbacks, U-233 is otherwise an excellent primary fissile material. It has a much smaller critical mass than U-235, and its nuclear characteristics are similar to plutonium. The U.S. conducted its first test of a U-233 bomb core in Teapot MET in 1957 and has conducted quite a number of bomb tests using this isotope, although the purpose of these tests is not clear. India is believed to have produced U-233 as part of its weapons research and development, and officially includes U-233 breeding as part of its nuclear power program. Its specific activity (not counting U-232 contamination) is 9.636 milliCi/g, giving it an alpha activity (and radiotoxicity) about 15% of plutonium. A 1% U-232 content would raise this to 212 milliCi/g. "
From Section 6.0 Nuclear Materials from nuclear weapons archive. (http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Nwfaq/Nfaq6.html)
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We have two substances here, Uranium 233 with a half life of 160 000 years which comes out to about four million years. We do expect ourselves to handle big numbers here, don't we :) The Victorian Empire builders can lay themselves down and roll over in shame..
Here we 'instant star makers' and long range planners come, again :)
Reminds me a lot of the 'Jules Verne solutions' some want to believe possible for eliminating CO2..
You know, with the 'lone ranger' coming into town (read Earth), and saves the day (read our future), well, sort of?
Now, that seems a 'low' radiation level if split over those years, but what about inhaling it, and what about that 'natural' background radiation as we assemble more and more of the uranium? Then we have another component in it, called Uranium 232, with a much shorter life length.. Determined 'to '73.6±1.0 years by a method involving isotopic dilution, mass spectrometric analysis etc.'
The shorter the half time, the more lethal the radioactivity as I understands it. So what is the overall life-length of U-232 before we can call it humanly 'safe' to handle? U-232 and the Proliferation Resistance of U-233 in Spent Fuel. (http://www.torium.se/res/Documents/9_1kang.pdf)
I don't seem to be able to find out?
But using the standard 3 to 10 times their 'half life' we find its 'toxicity' to be somewhere around 220 years to 750 years, possibly? That's the time for its radioactivity to 'cling of', purely as a first guess now.
And this one...
You better read it..A Thorium Future? (http://www.americanscientist.org/issues/pub/2010/5/a-thorium-future)
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What do you make from it? A one eyed conversation isn't it? Concentrating on stealing 'bomb materials'?
I don't give a sh* about that. Sure, a bomb would be bad, and if it's 'dirty' even worse. But we would see them some time at the chain leading to that bomb, as well as you have to be suicidal to do it in the first place, both as an individual and as the country harboring that individual.
But I'm not talking about that at all, I'm talking about the waste..
Read it again.
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You see, what I'm actually arguing here is that we humans, when show comes to tell, actually are a sane species.
We better be.
Because if we're not?
Well, you're dead.
It's too easy to do it today, but nobody has, has they?
Suicide bombers use explosives but not fissionable materials. Perhaps some secret agencies did poison by using radioactive materials, as in London recently. But hey, that was a 'government', not a 'terrorist', was it?
Anyone more than me finding this darkly ironic?
Seems our 'terrorists', so far, has behaved better than some governments.
Considering how (relatively) easy it would be to do the same, relative assembling a functioning b o m b.
So I actually expect us to be s a n e.
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Then, on the other hand. If we now are sane, why don't we do the obvious?
Restrict all births to one per person, which would make a normal traditional family to contain one baby per person.
For whatever time we need to start to fix things up here on Earth.
So, maybe I'm wrong?
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Be my guest here. Seems as if we have a reactor 4 in Fukushima that in 'where is spent nuclear fuel which contains Cesium-137 (Cs-137) that is equivalent to 10 times the amount that was released at the time of the Chernobyl nuclear accident. Nearly all of the 10,893 spent fuel assemblies at the Fukushima Daiichi plant sit in pools vulnerable to future earthquakes, with roughly 85 times more long-lived radioactivity than released at Chernobyl."
And MOX too perhaps?
Which then gives those 'ten times' a totally new and terrible importance.
And please, forget about Chernobyl comparisons, it's a totally new and sinister ball game when using MOX. I only use Chernobyl to point out that we westerners seems to have lied to ourselves, pretending it wasn't so bad, as that big Russian study shows up in our faces, if now any of those self proclaimed 'experts' takes the time to read it here?
Are we idiots?
What's wrong with us?
"The reactor in Chernobyl used slightly enriched Uranium-235 rods. While the Japanese plant uses a mixture of different fuels (MOX) from weapons grade plutonium and re-processed nuclear waste, partly put into civilian use to prevent proliferation of radioactive materials to terrorists."
As i said, forget about the bomb. If we can't see what this might mean for us, then we're probably gone as a species anyway. You guys defending our nuclear strategy better come through with a solution to the waste if you want us to continue with nuclear energy.
And it's rather urgent now, don't you agree?
As in weeks, maybe months, but not years...
Ambassador Murata writes to UN Secretary General: ‘It is no exaggeration to say that the fate of Japan and the whole world depends on No. 4 reactor’ (http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/2012/05/02/ambassador-exaggeration-fate-world-depends-fukushima-reactor-4-128701/)
I don't know what to say here.
Well I do, but I better not..
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G r e e e d..
Thanks, and f* you.
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I don't think I want to write any more about this for a while.
I'm not going apologize about what I wrote above though.
Getting so tired wondering about how we can behave as we do.
And whatever I write won't change what will happen anyway.
I don't know what to do here, but we need airlifts to Japan, and, we need some way to contain those pools.
And we don't have the time to discuss it really. Better if we set it into motion today, and argue while we're on our way.
The logistics of it will be a nightmare and will take us quite some time. If it wasn't for my kids, and yours, I would say good riddance to us all. We have to be worse than cockroaches we humans, although without their survivability. That fuc*ng greed and egoism will kill us all in the end, if we can't change.
Can we?
Here's the Russian Ebook about Chenobyl.
If we now fix this it will still be relevant. I promise MOX will disappear from the other nuclear facilities. Although there will be a lot of protests from the 'one eyed' population.
And, it's heavy reading with a lot of different sources.
But you should read it, after all, if you don't, you're a sucker for anyone telling you what to believe.
Remember PT Barnum?
Why not prove him wrong and read it.
Free Ebook; Chernobyl: Consequences of the Catastrophe for People and the Environment (http://agreenroad.blogspot.se/2012/04/free-ebook-chernobyl-consequences-of.html)
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I can add this
""http://www.iaea.org/inis/collection/NCLCollectionStore/_Public/33/043/33043484.pdf
"There exists no widely accepted definition for the concept of a 'hot particle'. It is often used in the meaning that the particle is highly active; sometimes it is used for particles having high specific activity. Khitrov et at. (1994) have suggested the following definition: a hot particle is a particle with any radionuclide or composition with size up to 50 - 80 ^m and activity over 4 Bq. The National Council on Radiation Protection and Measurements (NCRP 1999) states that "hot particles are considered to be > 10 \im but < 3000 |um in any dimension. Hot particles smaller than 10 (xm may be treated as general contamination...". Radioactive particles originating from atmospheric nuclear tests are historically referred to as hot particles. This concept was later attributed to fuel fragments originating from the Chernobyl accident."
"In the present thesis, nuclear fuel particles are studied from the perspective of their characteristics, atmospheric transport and possible skin doses. These particles, often referred to as 'hot' particles, can be released into the environment, as has happened in past years, through human activities, incidents and accidents, such as the Chernobyl nuclear power plant accident in 1986. Nuclear fuel particles with a diameter of tens of micrometers, referred to here as large particles, may be hundreds of kilobecquerels in activity and even an individual particle may present a quantifiable health hazard.""
And that is a discussion about what should be seen as constituting 'hot dust' as i understands it.
Chernobyl had this to say.
"Problem of Hot Particles," from Yablokov & Nesterenko's, "Chernobyl, Consequences of the Catastrophe for People and the Environment"
1.4.2. Problem of “Hot Particles” (pg. 21) A fundamental complexity in estimating the levels of Chernobyl radioactive contamination is the problem of so-called “hot particles” or “Chernobyl dust.” When the reactor exploded,it expelled not only gases and aerosols (the products of splitting of U (Cs-137, Sr-90, Pu, etc.),but also particles of U fuel melted together with other radionuclides - firm hot particles. Near the Chernobyl NPP, heavy large particles of U and Pu dropped out.
Areas of Hungary, Germany, Finland, Poland, Bulgaria, and other European countries saw hot particles with an average size of about 15 μm. Their activity mostly was deter mined to be (UNSCEAR,2000) Zr-95 (half-life 35.1 days), La-140 (1.68 days), and Ce-144 (284 days).
Some hot particles included beta-emitting radionuclides such as Ru-103 and Ru-106 (39.3 and 368 days, respectively) and Ba-140 (12.7 days). Particles with volatile elements that included I-131, Te132, Cs-137, and Sb-126 (12.4 days) spread over thousands of kilometers. “Liquid hot particles” were formed when radionuclides became concentrated in raindrops: Radioactivity of individual hot particles reached 10 kBq.
When absorbed into the body (with water, food, or inhaled air), such particles generate high doses of radiation even if an individual is in areas of low contamination. Fine particles (smaller than 1 μm) easily penetrate the lungs, whereas larger ones (20–40 μm) are concentrated primarily in the upper respiratory system (Khruch et al., 1988; Ivanov et al., 1990; IAEA, 1994). Studies concerning the peculiarities of the formation and disintegration of hot particles, their properties, and their impact on the health of humans and other living organisms are meager and totally inadequate.
From III Introduction, (p. 221): “Hot” particles have disintegrated much more rapidly than expected, leading to unpredictable secondary emissions from some radionuclides. Sr-90 and Am-241 are moving through the food chains much faster than predicted because they are so water soluble (Konoplya, 2006; Konoplya et al., 2006; and many others). Chernobyl radioactive contamination has adversely affected all biological as well as nonliving components of the environment: the atmosphere, surface and ground waters, and soil.
From Ch. 9 (Introduction, p. 237): With the catastrophe’s initial atmospheric radiotoxins powerful irradiation caused by “hot particles,”the soil and plants surfaces became contaminated and a cycle of absorption and release of radioisotopes from soil to plants and back again was put into motion (Figure 9.1).
... and finally, (p. 92):
5.5. Respiratory System Diseases There is a marked increase in respiratory system morbidity everywhere in the territories contaminated by Chernobyl fallout. Respiratory system diseases, which include those of the nasal cavity, throat, trachea, bronchial tubes,and lungs, were among the first apparent consequences of the irradiation and ranged from nose bleeds and tickling in the throat to lungcancer.
Hot particles, or “Chernobyl dust,”consist of particles containing radionuclides derived from nuclear fuel melted together with particles from metal construction, soil, etc. (see Chapter 1 for details). These persist for long periods in pulmonary tissue because of the low solubility of uranium oxides. In the first days after the catastrophe, respiratory problems in the mouth, throat, and trachea in adults were basically linked to the aseous–aerosol for ms of radionuclides.
During this initial period I- 131, Ru-106, and Ce-144 had the most serious impact on the respiratory system (IAEA, 1992; Chuchalin et al., 1998; Kut’kov et al.,1993; Tereshenko et al., 2004). Further damage to the respiratory system was caused by hot particles and external irradiation, and was also a consequence of changes in the immune and hormonal systems. The smallest hot particles, up to 5 μm, easily reached the deepest parts of lungs, while larger particles were trapped in the upper respiratory tract (Khrushch et al., 1988; Ivanov et al., 1990; IAEA, 1994). Bronchopulmonary morbidity increased quickly among liquidators in the contaminated territories (Kogan, 1998; rovotvorov and Romashov, 1997; Trakhtenberg and Chissov,2001; Yakushin and Smirnova, 2002; Tseloval’nykova et al., 2003;and others).
Liquidators,whose health was supervised more carefully than that of the general population, developed marked restrictive lung disease due to a functional decrease in lung elasticity (Kuznetsova et al., 2004). Chernobyl dust was found in liquidators’ bronchial tubes, bronchioles, and alveoli for many years. The syndrome of “acute inhalation depression of the upper respiratory system” presents as a combination of a rhinitis, tickling in the throat, dry cough, and difficulty breathing (Chuchalin et al., 1993; Kut’kov, 1998; Romanova, 1998; Chykyna et al., 2001;and others).
Since this is terminology directly from the industry, it's a good bet this is a solid read on Gundersen's intended definition/usage. "
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Now, getting back to the molten salt reactors. I'm not sure I understand how those proposing it look at the decay of waste. I've been discussing this topic with a rather nice guy, but he seem to take some things for granted, or else it's me missing out? I need to read a lot more to find what I really think about this molten sand design. But as always, I'm mixing apples with oranges here, discussing one design at the same time we have another going to smithereens in Fukushima. Now, what will happen if those fuel rods blows? As in getting converted to dust... Well, as Alex points out.
"Yoron, please Google "plutonium decay chain". Lasting 240,000 years doesn't mean anything until you know what happens during those tears. Pu doesn't continuously emit particles -- no radioactive element does.
Pu decays in about 15 steps to stable Lead. That means 15 particles (Alpha, Beta...) are emitted in total over 240,000 years. On average, that's 240,000/15 = 16,000 years between particles. So you'd need 16,000 Pu atoms to average 1 particle per year, or 500 trillion Pu atoms to get 1 particle per second, or 1 Becquerel. Your body's Potassium produces 4400 Becquerel.
You'd need to have about 4 milligrams of Pu ingested to equal just the natural Potassium decay in your body.
For Beta (electron) decay, use this nice tool...
www.colorado.edu/physics/2000/applets/iso.html
Click on the O20 box for instance, and see how it decays because it has too many neutrons."
So? Are that Japanese diplomat exaggerating the issue saying it will be a world wide catastrophe?
I don't know, although I would prefer it Alex way, I doubt he is, But I need much more information to decide here. In the mean time I can offer this on the issue of what should be considered dangerous, as well as what 'mass/size' of particles one should worry about.
"one must bear in mind that the Radium dial painters of the 1920s and 1930s all suffered radium induced cancers at the site of deposition of the internalised radium, commonly, the jaw. It must also be borne in mind that Robley Evan’s identified by observation that while the contaminated young women manifestly suffered various radium related disablity, below a certain level of total intake, none suffered radium induced cancers. Above that level, many did. Not all did.
The study turned out ( due to the intervention of war and the subsequent need to know for weapons related purposes. One could add as an aid to nuclear industry.) to be secret and whole of life – the women were secretly monitored until their deaths. The study thus ended in 1990s.) Radium is not plutonium. Both though are toxic chemically, and both are alpha emitters. Radium is endemic in the environment due to the decay of uranium. Plutonium is a transuranic – bigger than uranium and produced artificially. (though there is more to that, I’ll not go into Africa here.)
In terms of the radiological effects of plutonium vs radium weight for weight, the variables are 1. rate of radioactivity per unit mass of hot particle, 2. energy of the emitted alpha particle in MeV. In that comparison there is nothing unique about plutonium. Radiologically, its the alpha radiation emitted that is of interest. A comparion of Pu and Ra will follow the paper below. This argument is important. Understanding both points of view is a must so that one may decide on some logical basis what threats are being unleashed by nuclear industry.
Will a single “bullet” kill or is the concept of the allowable lifetime dose valid? Perhaps both concepts are imperfect. One the one hand, given the presence of radium in everyone from birth, well, we live passed the age of 5. On the other, As Pecher showed in 1942, a very small internal dose of Strontium 89 to a patient delivered a massive dose to local target tissue when converted into exteranl whole body X ray equivalent. And there is the record of the variable outcomes of the Radium Dial Painters. This debate is not a new one.
I’d rather not have any plutonium or cesium or any other fission fuel or fission product or transuranic thank you. Anyway, on with the expert response circa 1975." And if you want to read the rest of this guys wondering, much the same as me there, you have to go to The Hot Particle Problem – long but worth the effort. (Paul Langley's Nuclear History Blog) (http://nuclearhistory.wordpress.com/2011/04/05/the-hot-particle-problem/)
And then there is what I asked Alex.
"You know Alex. I never though I would need to dive into this so deep. But your molten sand reactor interests me, and yeah I am checking up on the 233U in the neptunium series. But it takes time, and I also have other things on my mind, as Fukushima. And I'd take that seriously, as seems a lot of other experts on that subject. Would you call your view on that matter a majority view Alex?
And what about responsibility for what one present as safe. Where does it end? Someone sold the design to Tepco, Does it end with Tepco buying it? Tepco probably sold it (the idea of safe nuclear power) to the Japanese state. Does it now end with the Japanese state being responsible? And the state sold it too their citizens so to speak. So would you then say that it ends with the individual?
Wouldn't be true would it? We all want to trust each other, life is a game of trust where we choose who we will trust, or sometimes gets it chosen for us, Somehow this catastrophe will get people killed, real people with families that will get hurt. Where is the responsibility for that Alex? The more you know, and the more you push for something, the more responsibility you take upon your own shoulders, in Japan they have this idea that if you save someones life (like someone suicidal), you also gain a responsibility for seeing to his future happiness. Can you see the logic behind that?"
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Some random voices on the net.
"Here's a video showing damage to the reactors from last Spring. Done by Japanese Defense Forces, flying in a helicopter. Pretty good footage showing massive destruction at the plant.
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/crane-fell-plutonium-containing-spent-fuel-rods-crushing-them
The professor interviewed here confirms the crane for moving the fuel "has dropped in." (Professor Naoto Sekimura of Tokyo University) From the video — it is possible the fuel rods have been damaged and radioactive material has been released … and that likelihood cannot be denied. The caption says the crane likely crushed spent fuel rods at SPF#3. If the diagrams are done right, why on earth would they have designed it so the SPF's are right next to the reactors? Dumb and dumber!
Then the video goes to Reactor #4 where it is clear the wall from top to bottom has collapsed on one side of the reactor. It appears the crane has also fallen here. It would be the large green object lying on the lower right side of the frame at about 2:10 – 2:13 in the video. The narrator states the lid "has been opened" as Reactor #4 was being inspected at the time of the accident. (Supposedly there was no fuel inside this reactor.)
The way this is worded (paragraph above) begs the question whether or not there really was fuel in #4. The narrator discusses the hydrogen explosion. If no fuel in the reactor, then the hydrogen explosion originated in SPF #4. So apparently #4 had no fuel in it, but if so the hydrogen explosion came from SPF #4. If this occurred and the crane also fell at #3, could both hydrogen explosions be linked to the cranes having crushed the fuel? And could these hydrogen explosions occur if there was water in SPF #3 or SPF #4?
The other possibility is there really was fuel in #4 and an explosion blew the lid off (or skewed it so that it's open). But that's not what they have been telling us, so far. " from HoTaters April 13, 2012.
By now we know that the Japanese deem unit 4 as the 'king pin' of them all.
"Ambassador Murata strongly stated that if the crippled building of reactor unit 4—with 1,535 fuel rods in the spent fuel pool 100 feet (30 meters) above the ground—collapses, not only will it cause a shutdown of all six reactors but will also affect the common spent fuel pool containing 6,375 fuel rods, located some 50 meters from reactor 4. In both cases the radioactive rods are not protected by a containment vessel; dangerously, they are open to the air. This would certainly cause a global catastrophe like we have never before experienced. He stressed that the responsibility of Japan to the rest of the world is immeasurable. Such a catastrophe would affect us all for centuries. Ambassador Murata informed us that the total numbers of the spent fuel rods at the Fukushima Daiichi site excluding the rods in the pressure vessel is 11,421 (396+615+566+1,535+994+940+6375).
I asked top spent-fuel pools expert Mr. Robert Alvarez, former Senior Policy Adviser to the Secretary and Deputy Assistant Secretary for National Security and the Environment at the U.S. Department of Energy, for an explanation of the potential impact of the 11,421 rods. I received an astounding response from Mr. Alvarez [updated 4/5/12]:
In recent times, more information about the spent fuel situation at the Fukushima-Dai-Ichi site has become known. It is my understanding that of the 1,532 spent fuel assemblies in reactor No. 304 assemblies are fresh and unirradiated. This then leaves 1,231 irradiated spent fuel rods in pool No. 4, which contain roughly 37 million curies (~1.4E+18 Becquerel) of long-lived radioactivity. The No. 4 pool is about 100 feet above ground, is structurally damaged and is exposed to the open elements. If an earthquake or other event were to cause this pool to drain this could result in a catastrophic radiological fire involving nearly 10 times the amount of Cs-137 released by the Chernobyl accident. The infrastructure to safely remove this material was destroyed as it was at the other three reactors. Spent reactor fuel cannot be simply lifted into the air by a crane as if it were routine cargo. In order to prevent severe radiation exposures, fires and possible explosions, it must be transferred at all times in water and heavily shielded structures into dry casks.. As this has never been done before, the removal of the spent fuel from the pools at the damaged Fukushima-Dai-Ichi reactors will require a major and time-consuming re-construction effort and will be charting in unknown waters. Despite the enormous destruction cased at the Da–Ichi site, dry casks holding a smaller amount of spent fuel appear to be unscathed.
Based on U.S. Energy Department data, assuming a total of 11,138 spent fuel assemblies are being stored at the Dai-Ichi site, nearly all, which is in pools. They contain roughly 336 million curies (~1.2 E+19 Bq) of long-lived radioactivity. About 134 million curies is Cesium-137 — roughly 85 times the amount of Cs-137 released at the Chernobyl accident as estimated by the U.S. National Council on Radiation Protection (NCRP). The total spent reactor fuel inventory at the Fukushima-Daichi site contains nearly half of the total amount of Cs-137 estimated by the NCRP to have been released by all atmospheric nuclear weapons testing, Chernobyl, and world-wide reprocessing plants (~270 million curies or ~9.9 E+18 Becquerel). It is important for the public to understand that reactors that have been operating for decades, such as those at the Fukushima-Dai-Ichi site have generated some of the largest concentrations of radioactivity on the planet."
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So, we have two scenarios here. One that I will call 'short term' now bearing in mind that , let's say three hundred years in no way is short term for a human. Defining a generation as twenty five years 300 comes out as twelve generations into the future, that all will be crippled as i understands it, by the radioactive dust.
Who will pay for that :)
What insurance company can afford it? For those of you translating it into profits, greed, and the holy grail, money..
As for the other stuff, that Alex point out not to be that specifically worrisome? I don't know, will this be the only accident then? What about all those 'old' Russian, secret or not, Waste dumps. What about under the oceans. what about the plutonium particles under the grass, even after you cleaned it up? It costs too much to transport all that earth away as I read somewhere :) I can go on, but I won't. And maybe Alex still will be correct in this, I'm not sure in the same way that I'm not sure what it will do to our natural background radiation. It's a terribly complicated field.
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So what about that natural back ground radiation?
Does it have a impact on our genes?
"Studies at lower doses are currently being conducted as new tools become available to both deliver the radiation and study the response of cells and molecules. This research has resulted in some very interesting results, suggesting that low doses of ionizing radiation with matter triggers many biological responses that were not predicted from past experience. These results include bystander effects, changes in the spectrum of gene activation, adaptive responses, and genomic instability. All these are discussed further in the following cited review papers.
Morgan, W.F. (2003). Non-targeted and delayed effects of exposure to ionizing radiation: I. Radiation-induced genomic instability and bystander effects in vitro. Radiation Research 159:567-580.
Morgan, W.F. (2003). Non-targeted and delayed effects of exposure to ionizing radiation: II. Radiation-Induced genomic instability and bystander effects In vivo- Clastogenic factors and transgenerational effects. Radiation Research 159:581-596.
Redpath, J.L., Lu, Q., Lao, X., Molloi, S., and Elmore, E. (2003) Low doses of diagnostic energy X-rays protect against neoplastic transformation In vitro. International Journal of Radiation. Biology. 79(4):235-240."
Well, what do you think?
Myself I think we are adapted to this Earth. And that we are adapted through 'geological' time scales. What we do introducing 'man made', extremely fast changes as compared to a geological process, is to ruin the clock work. I don't think we are prepared for handling very fast changes, as long as those changes don't revert back in a relatively short time. That is, I do expect defense mechanisms but I do not expect us to be 'instantly adaptive' if you can see how I think there.
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You just need to consider Chernobyl.
'Reverting back' here, just means. "Get Out Of There"
But what about when we have no "Out Of There" left to go too?
=
Earth is getting smaller, each day.
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Then there is another, more subtle but terribly important effect, that I would refer to as 'human nature'. We don't really want it to be as dangerous as some suspects, do we :) . Take a look at Heart disease and depression are likely to claim more lives than radiation after the earthquake, tsunami and nuclear accident, experts say. (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=japans-post-fukushima-earthquake-health-woes-beyond-radiation)
Do they still state that?
And what about ignoring Russian science on the subject? The nation that is likely to have the most hot spots in the world, as I suspect, inside its (former USSR) territory or in its close vicinity, including us in Sweden, as well as the other Nordic Countries, as we share some borders over the Baltic sea?
What about it?
Is only western science 'scientific'?
Don't think so.
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And now to what I find most frustrating. The idea that anyone 'knows it all'. You will find the same phenomena in each generation. They all have their 'gurus' that they will refer too as 'scientifically impossible to question'. And when you insist on doing it a lot of huffing and puffing will commence. Nobody knows it all and we would all do well in trying to remember that. That would put a immediate end to most 'sects', of whatever kind, out there.
So what is the proper response to a problem as Fukushima?
Get the information..
As long as it can be validated it will be relevant, and if it is statistics instead of hypothesis, so much better. And use common sense when finding validating hard. A minimalistic approach to danger is to be preferred when it comes to what is unknown, or questionable. Especially if it is other peoples life you are gambling with.
Would you say that this is what we do, gambling on safe nuclear designs?
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So, has Tepco lied?
Yes.
Has the Japanese government lied?
Depends on if you think that holding in the truth is lying?
If you asked me if a road is safe and I say 'as for last week it was' knowing that it has changed since that.
Would that consist of lying? Or if refusing to answer, would that consist of lying?
I don't know, well I do know, but that's, that's my personal opinion :)
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Then there is one more thing. How much MOX is there in those fuel rods?
the used up fuel rods will contain plutonium. The unused will either contain MOX, which is a mix of uranium, weapon grade plutonium, and plutonium from other nuclear facility's waste. Or they will contain enriched uranium which is made from ;
"Uranium found in nature consists largely of two isotopes, U-235 and U-238. The production of energy in nuclear reactors is from the 'fission' or splitting of the U-235 atoms, a process which releases energy in the form of heat. U-235 is the main fissile isotope of uranium.
Natural uranium contains 0.7% of the U-235 isotope. The remaining 99.3% is mostly the U-238 isotope which does not contribute directly to the fission process (though it does so indirectly by the formation of fissile isotopes of plutonium). Isotope separation is a physical process to concentrate (‘enrich’) one isotope relative to others. Most reactors are Light Water Reactors (of two types - PWR and BWR) and require uranium to be enriched from 0.7% to 3% to 5% U-235 in their fuel.
Uranium-235 and U-238 are chemically identical, but differ in their physical properties, notably their mass. The nucleus of the U-235 atom contains 92 protons and 143 neutrons, giving an atomic mass of 235 units. The U-238 nucleus also has 92 protons but has 146 neutrons - three more than U-235, and therefore has a mass of 238 units. The difference in mass between U-235 and U-238 allows the isotopes to be separated and makes it possible to increase or "enrich" the percentage of U-235. All present enrichment processes, directly or indirectly, make use of this small mass difference.
Some reactors, for example the Canadian-designed Candu and the British Magnox reactors, use natural uranium as their fuel. (For comparison, uranium used for nuclear weapons would have to be enriched in plants specially designed to produce at least 90% U-235.) Enrichment processes require uranium to be in a gaseous form at relatively low temperature, hence uranium oxide from the mine is converted to uranium hexafluoride in a preliminary process, at a separate conversion plant. "
So you can see that there is a difference between the Chernobyl 'fuel' and what Fukushima used.
And Tepco lied to us, and to the Japanese government before the catastrophe according to workers/whistle blowers there. Isn't it strange that it takes a catastrophe for a human to start telling the truth? I find it strange at least.
Anyway, if they lied about that? Then I don't know what to think about how many fuel rods there will be that contain MOX either? According to what I've found out only reactor three was certified for using MOX.
But?
And, as a byside:
Sweden do not use MOX but yet we found us forced by OKG AB to accept such, 850 kg of it.
---- G r e e d ---
"Swedish christmas present for Sellafield
The approval gives OKG AB the opportunity to return 850 kilos of plutonium recovered at the Sellafield Thermal Oxide Reprocessing Plant (THORP). According to the contracts between OKG AB and British Nuclear Fuel Ltd (BNFL) the Swedish plutonium will be converted in to MOX fuel in the Sellafield MOX plant (SMP).
The licence is limited and does not mean a changed policy for treatment of Swedish nuclear waste.
Unplanned stoppages
The Swedish plutonium is a product of spent nuclear fuel sent to Sellafield by OKG AB between 1975 and 1982. In the 1980’s the Swedish government subsequently reversed its spent fuel policy of reprocessing in favour of the direct disposal of its spent nuclear fuel. According to the English environmental organisation CORE, BNFL was alarmed by the Swedish plans in 1996 to have its spent fuel returned to Sweden unreprocessed. BNFL promptly reprocessed all the fuel in 1997, well in advance of its scheduled reprocessing date.
Anyway it will probably take some time before the Swedish MOX-fuel will be shipped to Oskashamn. Despite BNFL’ s best efforts to get SMP into full production in order to meet customer delivery targets, unplanned stoppages have contributed to the plant’s slow commissioning progress. Early statements by BNFL indicated delivery of the first assemblies in January 2003. But when Bellona inspected the plant last week, the first MOX-fuel assemblies was expected in april 2003. SMP was commissioned in December 2001.
Switzerland first
It is still uncertain when the plant will start the production of the Swedish MOX assemblies. The first assemblies are to be sent to Switzerland. Two weeks ago the SMP was forced to a halt because of problems with the constructions of a fuel pin. Still smarting from the negative publicity surrounding the return shipment of rejected MOX-fuel from Japan to Sellafield this summer, BNFL is planning to ship the new MOX to Europe with reduced levels of safety and security for the dangerous cargo. Instead of using their MOX carriers, Pacific Pintail and Pacific Teal, BNFL are planning to ship MOX to Europe with Atlantic Osprey, a ship bought second-hand by BNFL in 2001 from the German shipping firm Adler & Sohne.
The Atlantic Osprey has few of the safety/security features attributed to BNFL’s MOX carriers. No naval cannon or other armament has been added and unlike the Pacific ships the Atlantic Osprey will travel unescorted around the British coast to Europe. The Atlantic Osprey must rely on a single engine, and has no double hull.
Bellona visit
The Bellona foundation inspected the Sellafield MOX plant last week. Bellona also had meetings with BNFL staff, and discussed different ways of cleaning out Technetium-99 (Tc-99) from the discharges. The British environmental minister Michael Meacher have instructed the Environmental Agency to find out if it is possible to put a moratorium on the Tc-99 discharges.
Bellona also visited the tanks where BNFL store vast amounts of Tc-99 contaminated liquid waste. The tanks was constructed in 1951 and was once part of the secret British weapons programme. Today there are about 2000 cubic metres of radioactive liquid waste in the tanks, containing about 200 Terrabecquereles of Tc-99." From Sweden approves limited MOX use. (http://www.bellona.org/english_import_area/energy/nuclear/sellafield/27738)
Anyone else than me feeling tired here.
I have kids, you have kids, we know that MOX is a material we don't want to get spread around. We know that we don't want to have a accident with it either (remember 'moist environment' anyone?). And we don't want it sunk to the bottom..
Sure, in the end it's the 'individuals responsibility' right?
I'm responsible, because in a market policy it is 'always' the customer that decides :)
What BS.
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Just got this from Alex.
And it sounds no good. Nobody can afford that when it comes to nuclear power plants. If the companies managing them can't make a profit without, then I think it's time for the government to take over the plant.
Culture of Complicity Tied to Stricken Nuclear Plant. (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/27/world/asia/27collusion.html?_r=1)
Japan Nuclear Disaster Caps Decades of Faked Reports, Accidents. (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-17/japan-s-nuclear-disaster-caps-decades-of-faked-safety-reports-accidents.html)
So, how is it with other countries nuclear 'oversights'?
==
Eh, that is assuming a 'state' having a integrity of course.
Without integrity, neither a state, nor a man, has anything.
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So, how is it to live there?
Near Fukushima?
"It was an email from an old friend that led me to the irradiated sunflower fields of Fukushima. I had not heard from Reiko-san since 2003, when I left my post as the Guardian's Tokyo correspondent. Before that, the magazine editor had been the source of many astute comments about social trends in Japan. In April, she contacted me out of the blue. I was pleased at first, then worried.
Reiko's message began in traditional Japanese style with a reference to the season and her state of mind. The eloquence was typical. The tone unusually disturbing: "It is spring time now in Tokyo and the cherry blossoms are in bloom. In my small terrace garden, the plants – tulips, roses and strawberries – are telling me that a new season has arrived. But somehow, they make me sad because I know that they are not the same as last year. They are all contaminated."
Reiko went on to describe how everything had changed in the wake of the nuclear accident in Fukushima the previous month. Daily life felt like science fiction. She always wore a mask and carried an umbrella to protect against black rain. Every conversation was about the state of the reactors. In the supermarket, where she used to shop for fresh produce, she now looked for cooked food – "the older, the safer now". She expressed fears for her son, anger at the government and deep distrust of the reassuring voices she was hearing in the traditional media. "We are misinformed. We are misinformed," she repeated. "Our problem is in society. We have to fight against it. And it seems as hard as the fight against those reactors." "
From Fukushima disaster: it's not over yet (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/sep/09/fukushima-japan-nuclear-disaster-aftermath)
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This is not Europe, it's Japan.
Where can they go?
And is that acceptable, to lose land for centuries, or longer?
Even if it will be shown that we can live with a higher radiative background I doubt anyone to want to live in Fukushima, or Chernobyl. Those that do live in similar neighborhood have their kids dead-born or severly genetically damaged. I gave a link in the beginning, as I reopened the question of Fukushima, why not read it if you missed it.. Here it is, again. (http://www.wentz.net/radiate/cheyla/index.htm)
Instead of defending those outmoded expressions from a cold war, why not ask yourself if you are prepared to live like that. And then ask yourself how we can make sure that no one ever will need too again.
Then we come to the weak radiation theory in where it can be seen as benevolent at times as well as the idea is that we can stand a lot more radioactivity than what we allow. I don't think so myself, we are adapted to Earth in a geological perspective, from the very beginning of life. And to assume that we can adapt over decades or even centuries lie a heavy weigh over those shoulders, thinking that.
Prove it, and not on mice.
We have had some few laboratories.
The link above is one of them, the other is Chernobyl and there we have the study made by Russian that I linked too. We could count in the atom bombs and the Japanese victims of the same, but that's not this type of slow radioactivity from waste etc. And now we have a new laboratory, with new unwilling participants.
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"The village of Muslymova, just outside the 50 km zone was particularly contaminated, but it was never evacuated. Muslyumova lies 45 km north west of Chelyabinsk city and has 4,000 inhabitants. The village had no wells and until recent years depended on the river Techa, for drinking water.
The villagers of Muslyumova grew increasingly ill following contamination of their water. The number of birth defects and cancer deaths soared, but the authorities refused to take remedial measures. Statistics show that gene-mutations in the villages just outside the evacuated zone were 15 times the average for the Russian Federation. The local authorities attributed the high level of birth defects among newborns and the high mortality rates to a low standard of living."
(Anyone meet this argument in western science? Russias low standard of living? I've seen it several times when it comes to criticizing the Russian study of Chernobyl.)
"A report on the health of the people living on the banks of the Techa River was published in 1991, which showed that the incidence of leukemia increased by 41% since 1950. From 1980 to 1990, all cancers in this population rose by 21% and all diseases of the circulatory system rose by 31%. These figures are probably gross under-estimations, because local physicians were instructed to limit the number of death certificates they issued with diagnosis of cancer and other radiation-related illnesses. According to Gulfarida Galimova, a local doctor who has been keeping records in lieu of official statistics, the average life span for women in Muslyumovo in 1993 was 47, compared to the country average of 72. The average life span of Muslyumovo men was 45 compared to 69 for the entire country.
Chelyabinsk regional hospitals were not allowed to treat the villagers and they were sent to the Ural Centre for Radiation Medicine. The medical data of the UCRM was classified until 1990. Records of the UCRM chart the decline in health of 28,000 people along the Techa and all of them are classed as seriously irradiated. Since the 1960s, these people have been examined regularly by public health officials.
According to the head of the UCRM clinical department the rate of leukemia has doubled in the last two decades. Skin cancers have quadrupled over the last 33 years. The total number of people suffering from cancer has risen by 21%. The number of people suffering from vascular diseases has risen 31%. Birth defects have increased by 25%. Kosenko carried out a small epidemiological study of 100 people selected at random. From this group 96% had at least five chronic diseases (heart diseases, high blood pressure, arthritis and asthma), 30% had as many as ten chronic conditions.
Local doctors estimate that half the men and women at child bearing age are sterile."
And?
Low living standards is it?
Remind me of getting a better wage.
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Is it strange that people doubt those 'experts' telling them that they don't have to 'worry'?
I am worried, I told my kids to worry too. I'm no expert on this but it is clear to me that some real big money is involved in this type of energy, like ? Couldn't find a answer on the net, not even for a single Country?
Isn't that strange.
Makes you wonder, if you have a estimate validated by sources, feel free to tell me.
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Okay I have some leads now, but?
Anyway, let's get back to my first question.
That is... Are we sane?
I don't know, we're very territorial animals, as well as easy to manipulate. Maybe one is needed for the other? We seems to like weapons, don't we? Like the b o m b World Spending On Nuclear Weapons Surpasses $1 Trillion Per Decade. (http://www.globalzero.org/en/page/cost-of-nukes)
Is that sane? Considering that using just one of them will be ... Be my guest The Nuclear Seduction. It's a gas.. (http://publishing.cdlib.org/ucpressebooks/view?docId=ft1n39n7wg;chunk.id=0;doc.view=print)
So what about those costs for a nuclear facility? I still don't now how much that has been invested, as well what it has cost to clean up after accidents, failures, waste, etc. But I can offer this. New Nuclear Reactors Would Be Too Risky. From 2010.. (http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2010/07/19/Dennis-Kucinich-New-Nuclear-Reactors-Would-Be-Too-Risky) As well as 10 Reasons Not to Invest in Nuclear Energy from 2008. From the Center for American Progress. (http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2008/07/nuclear_energy.html)
Against it we have the World Nuclear Association Information. World Energy Needs and Nuclear Power.. from 2011. (http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf16.html) I don't use IAEA (International Atomic Energy Agency) and WHO (World Health Organization) here to get my costs. Why?
Well, I'm looking for unbiased sources firstly.
And they are both interrelated through a agreement.
"In the early days of nuclear power, WHO issued forthright statements on radiation risks such as its 1956 warning: "Genetic heritage is the most precious property for human beings. It determines the lives of our progeny, health and harmonious development of future generations. As experts, we affirm that the health of future generations is threatened by increasing development of the atomic industry and sources of radiation … We also believe that new mutations that occur in humans are harmful to them and their offspring."
After 1959, WHO made no more statements on health and radioactivity. What happened? On 28 May 1959, at the 12th World Health Assembly, WHO drew up an agreement with the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA); clause 12.40 of this agreement says: "Whenever either organisation [the WHO or the IAEA] proposes to initiate a programme or activity on a subject in which the other organisation has or may have a substantial interest, the first party shall consult the other with a view to adjusting the matter by mutual agreement." In other words, the WHO grants the right of prior approval over any research it might undertake or report on to the IAEA – a group that many people, including journalists, think is a neutral watchdog, but which is, in fact, an advocate for the nuclear power industry."
And when it comes to IAEA (International Atomic Energy Agency) its own charter says.
"[t]he Agency shall seek to accelerate and enlarge the contribution of atomic energy to peace, health and prosperity throughout the world. It shall ensure, so far as it is able, that assistance provided by it or at its request or under its supervision or control is not used in such a way as to further any military purpose"
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So, okay, how can I say that the sources I use don't have a bias?
I can't :) It's just that I prefer private persons investigating, before using what cooperations and organizations tell me. But yeah, they probably have a bias too. To live is to get them, don't you agree? If you have better sources than this..? And I'm sure there are better sources, somewhere? There always is :) But we have to do with what we have.
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You can turn it around if you like, then I'm using clearly biased sources, but avoiding those 'in the shades' that one otherwise easily might expect 'objective', not knowing about that agreement, and charter of intent.
Can you see my point?
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One reason more for worrying about MOX.
"According to the Nuclear Information Resource Center (NIRS), this plutonium-uranium fuel mixture is far more dangerous than typical enriched uranium -- a single milligram (mg) of MOX is as deadly as 2,000,000 mg of normal enriched uranium."
But hey, we 'need plutonium' don't we?
Well, those of us not living in Mayak, Chernobyl, Fukushima, or anyway near a waste facility.
Because it's a deterrent to war :)
Eh..
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50 years after Americas worst meltdown. (http://www.enviroreporter.com/investigations/rocketdyne/50-years-after-america%E2%80%99s-worst-nuclear-meltdown/)
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How is it with the 'State' honesty?
Is a democratic state answerable to its citizens? Is it acceptable with a political change after a state been found to lie, or should there also be a individual responsibility from those partaking in covering ups and lying?
I think it should, having a individual legal responsibility to not lie those politicians, and other servants of the state, would be forced to reconsider not only their jobs, but also legal procedures taken against them, as prison sentences.
The democratic state is a servant of the people, is that not so?
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I don't know, we're very territorial animals, as well as easy to manipulate. Maybe one is needed for the other? We seems to like weapons, don't we? Like the b o m b World Spending On Nuclear Weapons Surpasses $1 Trillion Per Decade. (http://www.globalzero.org/en/page/cost-of-nukes)
So, why is the USA spending $60 Billion a year on weapons that are completely useless, or otherwise are designed to never be used? And the expenditures are INCREASING [xx(]
And, all being done in a period when the USA is completely unable to balance the budget.
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My view Clifford?
Why is China going for molten salt reactors? They do seem safer, as far as I understand it, but what more do they do, as new 'fuel/waste'?
"The one hypothetical proliferation concern with Thorium fuel though, is that the Protactinium can be chemically separated shortly after it is produced and removed from the neutron flux (the path to U-233 is Th-232 -> Th-233 -> Pa-233 -> U-233). Then, it will decay directly to pure U-233. By this challenging route, one could obtain weapons material. But Pa-233 has a 27 day half-life, so once the waste is safe for a few times this, weapons are out of the question. So concerns over people stealing spent fuel are eliminated by Th, but the possibility of the owner of a Th-U reactor obtaining bomb material is not. "
"Tread softly, wearing a big stick" seems to be the motto for today, just as it was yesterday, and the day before. There seem no end to the aspirants wanting to shoulder that nuclear burden. Still, I suspect this kind of attitude is inbuilt in us, visible even in the most civilized of society's. And one has to remember that USA has a lot of foreign interests to defend, after all, they are 'the' Super-Power.. No joke there, just as Rom once was.
=
As for Fukushima..
The Guardian has a recent piece.
The Fukushima nuclear plant's slow recovery offers lessons to the US. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2012/may/07/japan-fukushima-nuclear-power-earthquakes?commentpage=all#start-of-comments)
The comments are interesting too.
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Sorry, had to correct myself regarding Chinas planned thorium plants (molten salt reactors)..
It's not plutonium but you can still make a bomb from it, if you own the plant.
Still, it's the waste problem I find really troublesome.
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The problem with those molten sand reactors is still the waste as it seems to me. We've had the bomb a long time now, humanely seen :) long at least, but the waste products coming from a Thorium reactor seems even worse when looking at how long they will be with us?
"Putative waste benefits – such as the impressive claims made by former Nasa scientist Kirk Sorensen, one of thorium’s staunchest advocates – have the potential to be outweighed by a proliferating number of MSRs. There are already 442 traditional reactors already in operation globally, according to the International Atomic Energy Agency. The by-products of thousands of smaller, ostensibly less wasteful reactors would soon add up.
Anti-nuclear campaigner Peter Karamoskos goes further, dismissing a ‘dishonest fantasy’ perpetuated by the pro-nuclear lobby.
Thorium cannot in itself power a reactor; unlike natural uranium, it does not contain enough fissile material to initiate a nuclear chain reaction. As a result it must first be bombarded with neutrons to produce the highly radioactive isotope uranium-233 – ‘so these are really U-233 reactors,’ says Karamoskos.
This isotope is more hazardous than the U-235 used in conventional reactors, he adds, because it produces U-232 as a side effect (half life: 160,000 years), on top of familiar fission by-products such as technetium-99 (half life: up to 300,000 years) and iodine-129 (half life: 15.7 million years).
Add in actinides such as protactinium-231 (half life: 33,000 years) and it soon becomes apparent that thorium’s superficial cleanliness will still depend on digging some pretty deep holes to bury the highly radioactive waste. "
I don't know. If we want to keep the standard of living raising for the whole earths population, at the same time we want to keep the hierarchy's and power structures we already have? And those feeding from the top most certainly want to stay :) And then naturally also include everyones freedom to get as many children they want? It becomes a strange picture to me. More people on a impoverished earth, losing its natural resources and diversity by the hour, with around 10 percent of the population 'owning' around 70-90 percent of the natural resources directly or indirectly?
I think it sounds as a recipe for war.
Money has worked for the longest time, but we need something more.
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Still, I like the Thorium concept so much more than the reactors we use today. A added advantage seems to be that we can burn down the nuclear waste we already have into deposits that , theoretically, 'only' will be (extremely) dangerous for 300 years. Let's see, assuming a generation to be twenty five years that leaves us twelve generations. But then you have it, we will all make those reactors won't we :), if they work..
So let's ass_u_me, making an ass out of both me and you as they say :) that we get a thousand reactors in the end? or maybe two thousand? As oil and coal becomes too expensive, both economically and environmentally, with methane gas as our new 'dark horse', a waiting environmental disaster for profit. That as nobody see that methane released as it gets released from the exploiting. And as most states don't really seem to care, or wanting to understand about it, for diverse reasons which I won't go into now, as they differ from Country to Country, but they all go back to one thing as a guess, profit (and greed).
We really seem the same, don't we. Where is the human progress? The mechanical is there, and the electronic, but us that use this new freedom of choice? Ah well, never mind :)
Two thousand reactors spread over the planet, all producing very dangerous waste for at least three hundred years. And as the waste add up under those three hundred years? How much will it become? And we haven't found any safe storage for the waste we already have, that is if you're not dreaming. Practically nobody can proof a 'safe geological storage' although sooner or later we probably will try for something, as we don't want it visible scaring us :) But I would say that it being visible is the safest storage, never mind the dangers.
But I really like the idea of burning down the waste we already have.
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Also it might be a deterrent to war :)
Who, in his right mind, want to attack a waste facility? And considering winds, ground water etc, poison a whole planet. On the other hand, are we a sane species?
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Hm, is this one sane?
And the other hilarious :)
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What is a word made up of four letters yet also made up of three. Although written with eight letters and then with four? Rarely consisting of six but never written with five.
Solve that one :)
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W H A T = 4
Y E T = 3
A L T H O U G H = 8
T H E N = 4
R A R E L Y = 6
N E V E R = 5
All those cryptic crosswords finally paid off! [;D]
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Heh, better later late than never :)
Good on you Bizerl.
Just wanted to post a update on Fukushima
Seems we've forgotten that one doesn't it :) It's not about cuddly animals, and it has no 'human interest' for the papers, and so our politicians can look up in the sky and whistle as they go to work, making a better world for us all.
But the sh* seems ready to hit the fan here.
"A Yale Professor is compelling the world to wake up from its nuclear slumber and face some cold-hard facts, “All of humanity will be threatened for thousands of years” if the Fukushima Unit 4 pool can’t be kept cool. Your worries about eating cesium-contaminated fish from the Pacific Ocean are grounded in fact, but this is a world-wide disaster of the most epic proportions just waiting to happen. If nothing else, it points to the necessity of nuclear-free power to fuel the planet, but in the meantime, more than 1,535 fuel rods must be meticulously removed from Unit 4, which in all likelihood is crumbling. Charles Perrow, Professor Emeritus of Sociology from Yale University cautions: “Conditions in the unit 4 pool, 100 feet from the ground, are perilous, and if any two of the rods touch it could cause a nuclear reaction that would be uncontrollable. The radiation emitted from all these rods, if they are not continually cool and kept separate, would require the evacuation of surrounding areas including Tokyo. Because of the radiation at the site the 6,375 rods in the common storage pool could not be continuously cooled; they would fission and all of humanity will be threatened, for thousands of years.” In early stages of the Fukushima disaster Tepco, under influence of the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency (NISA), tried to keep the full ramifications of Fukushima under wraps, and now the entire country faces a possible trillion dollar price tag and multiple decades of active clean up to make this go away, but that will all be a moot point if the fuel rods aren’t removed properly.
All the boron between spent fuel rods has disintegrated.
(Arnie Gundersen, Chief Engineer at Fairewinds Energy Education:
Tokyo Electric has admitted that the boron between these fuel cells — there’s a boron wafer in between the fuel to prevent something called an inadvertent criticality, you can have a nuclear chain reaction in the fuel pool, and that’s not a good thing — but they’ve admitted that all the boron has disintegrated. So the only thing preventing a chain reaction from occurring […] in the fuel racks themselves, is the fact they put all sorts of boron in the water. But if the rods get too close to each other, they can still fire up again and create a chain reaction in the nuclear fuel pool.)
This means a nuclear chain reaction could ensue if the rods get too close together in the pools, causing nuclear mayhem like we’ve never endured. In less than two months, Tepco plans to try to remove these rods, admitting that they haven’t the expertise or resources to do it perfectly – and that is what it would take – absolute perfection. According to globalreasearch.ca, “Some 400 tons of fuel in that pool could spew out more than 15,000 times as much radiation as was released at Hiroshima. More than 6,000 fuel assemblies now sit in a common pool just 50 meters from Unit Four. Some contain plutonium. The pool has no containment over it. It’s vulnerable to loss of coolant, the collapse of a nearby building, another earthquake, another tsunami and more.” Overall, more than 11,000 fuel assemblies are scattered around the Fukushima site. According to long-time expert and former Department of Energy official Robert Alvarez, there is more than 85 times as much lethal cesium on site as was released at Chernobyl.” This is no time for Tepco or the Japanese government to try to save face, or the world to turn the other cheek. If we don’t treat this as a global disaster it would be like waiting for the Russians to start nuclear war back in the 1980s – or worse. Harvey Wasserman has created a petition at NukeFree.org to alert our own president and other politicians about the extreme seriousness of this incident. All while they were planning to go to war with Syria, the nuclear disaster right under our noses was escalating to unfathomable proportions. Not to sound doom and gloom, but it’s important to recognize the ramifications if this issue isn’t taken care of – properly."
As well as.
"Jiji Press, Oct. 10, 2013: Radioactive cesium levels have surged 13 times in the bay of the crippled Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power station in northeastern Japan [...] Seawater sampled near a water intake of the No. 2 reactor on Wednesday contained 1,200 becquerels per liter of radioactive cesium, up from 90 becquerels the previous day, TEPCO said. [...]
Reuters, Oct. 10, 2013: Radiation levels in seawater just outside one of the damaged Fukushima reactors spiked this week to the highest level in two years, the operator of the crippled Japanese nuclear plant said on Thursday. [...] In the latest incident, a worker on Wednesday mistakenly detached a pipe connected to a treatment system, releasing seven tonnes of highly radioactive water. [...] The pressure from pumping chemicals into the ground pushed some contaminated soil out into the port area, the spokesman said.
Fukushima Daiichi NPS Prompt Report, Oct. 10, 2013: [...] On October 9, we found a significant increase in the measurement results of cesium 134 and 137 sampled inside the silt fence of the water intake for Unit 2 [...] Cesium 134: 370Bq/L; Cesium 137: 830Bq/L [...]Measurement results on October 8: Cesium 134: 26Bq/L; Cesium 137: 64Bq/L [...]It is assumed that the ground improvement work administrated near the water intake for Unit 2 (where high concentration contaminated water leaked two years ago) has some influence on the increase in the measurement results this time. We continue to watch the situation."
Meaning that they can not contain the situation. They need to cool the fuel cells, spent and unspent. They use water to do so, the water gets contaminated with radioactivity and must be stored. And now they are running out of storage, with radioactive water leaking from the tanks already placed there. And some of it must have constantly moved down into groundwater, it being the natural cycle.
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Let me guess. Politicians all over the world will blame such a disaster on the Japanese Tepco, and the Japanese government, and then whistle some more as they go home, another days work done.
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Yeah, I know, we will try, as us ordinary voters puts pressure on those 'state man' like politicos of vision and flair, eh, when the papers finally reports on it I mean. But by then it will be too late, and it won't be enough.
Also " After the 2011 Tōhoku earthquake and tsunami, the four reactors at Fukushima II automatically shut down. Japan's worst nuclear incident occurred at TEPCO's Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant, a 11.5 km (7.1 mi) boundary to boundary road journey to the north, after the same March 11 earthquake."
What will happen to that one, if now Tokyo needs to be evacuated?
People working in 'space suits'?
For how long?
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Seem we're letting this world go to sh1t, in so many ways, from Global Warming to our nuclear provisions. and all in the name of profits. Who said we can plan long term?
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Guess I'm getting a little tired on all the empty words coming from politicians, and power brokers. the problem with them is that they 'fought' their way up. or 'earned it' some way or another. they become a club for insidious admiration, solving the worlds problem not in assembly's but in small corners. It's a very unhealthy attitude to democracy, with lobbying acting as a added pressure from big business and other profit gathering interests. I said it before and I'll say it again. People likes, and seem to think they can relate to 'politics', but in my view most sorely miss what a democracy should mean. One voice, one vote. With representatives of the peoples will, elected through such practice.
You might say it's a human failing, everyone wants a bite of the cake, and some want more than just one bite. And being a politician becomes a job in the end, not a calling. Doesn't mean that politicians can't be honest, but looking at what action has been taken on problems that definitely will change my life, and even more so, my kids lives, i can't state that I'm impressed.
So what would it cost to dismantle a nuclear power plant?
"Sooner or later, all 500 reactors now operating or under construction around the world will have to be retired.
Reactors are not only costing more than they were expected to when the nuclear power era began but are also wearing out quicker than expected, with radiation making metal piping in the plants brittler than engineers foresaw. The Department of Energy estimates that 16 reactors now operating in the United States will reach the end of their useful lives by the end of the century. That number could grow to 53 by 2005 and 70 by the year 2010. A Knowledge Vacuum
Although nuclear power generated 13 percent of the world's electricity in 1984, until now only small, research reactors have been disassembled. ''Nuclear engineers have been attracted to the exciting challenge of developing and improving new technology, not to figuring out how to manage its rubbish,'' Ms. Pollock wrote in a booklet published this year about decommissioning.
That knowledge vacuum has led to a bitter, and many say belated, debate about what should happen to these hulks of contaminated steel and concrete and how much it will cost to dismantle them.
Estimates have varied widely. Battelle Pacific Northwest Laboratory, an independent nonprofit laboratory that frequently does research for the Federal Government, estimated in 1984 that it would cost $104 million to take apart a 1,155-megawatt reactor that uses pressurized water and $133 million for a similar-sized reactor using boiling water, the two most common types in use.
But Ms. Pollock says the experience from decommissioning smaller reactors indicates much higher costs. She said a three-year study in Switzerland concluded that retiring a nuclear plant would cost, adjusted for inflation, 20 percent of the price of building it, while an analysis conducted for New York State concluded it would cost 24 percent, or more than $500 million for recently completed plants. Other estimates are higher.
Ms. Pollock said Bechtel International, the construction company, recently bid $104 million to disassemble a new, never used and therefore uncontaminated plant in Zwentendorf, Austria. Both critics and proponents of nuclear power acknowledge it will be much more expensive to take apart contaminated plants.
Many states have started pressing utilities to set aside millions of dollars to finance the dismantling of their plants. But how much the utilities should set aside and who should provide the money are hotly debated. " http://www.nytimes.com/1986/11/25/science/nuclear-power-plant-dismantled.html
Well, no surprise there, is it? Private interests are going for the profit, and thats the way we've all learnt to live too. Being egoistical is a healthy sign, isn't it? A person being totally altruistic is at best naive, otherwise a fool, wouldn't you say :) So, who do you expect to pay for the dismantling :) One way or another it will end up at the state I would say, financing it. that means your and my wallet paying for it. Would be interesting to see the real price for our power consumptions, if the dismantling is counted in.
And the price is in no way set. Not until we have a way to make radioactive materials safe. And we still don't have that.
Here's another take on it.
"According to a new report from GlobalData, Europe is on track to decommission nearly 150 nuclear power plants in the next two decades. Some, like those in Germany, are being mothballed for political reasons. Others, in France and Britain, are simply getting old. Yet dismantling a nuclear reactor is an arduous, time-consuming task — typically costing between $400 million and $1 billion per plant. And it’s not clear that Europe is fully prepared for the onslaught of retirements.
In a recent issue of New Scientist, Fred Pearce offered a handy step-by-step guide on how to take apart a nuclear reactor. There are thousands of tons of radioactive material to deal with — not just the spent fuel rods, but also various materials that have picked up lower levels of radioactivity. That includes, potentially, the reactor vessel, the fuel-rod casings, various bits of scrap metal and even old clothing. That waste can’t just be carted off to regular landfills; it needs to be disposed of properly. (Here’s a graphic breaking down the various types of waste.)
Very broadly speaking, there are three main ways (pdf) to decommission a nuclear reactor. The first option is to remove the fuel, disassemble the surrounding structure and find a safe place to store all the different radioactive bits. One problem with this option? Not every country in Europe currently has proper waste facilities set up, Pearce reports.
Alternatively, workers could simply take out the fuel, drain the plumbing and then lock up the reactor, letting the isotopes decay until the plant itself is less radioactive. After 10 to 80 years, the whole structure will be easier to dismantle. The third option, meanwhile, is to bury the reactor in a “tomb” of concrete and hope that no one cracks the structure open for the next 1,400 years. The U.S. Department of Energy took this approach for two old reactors at Savannah River in South Carolina." http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/post/how-hard-is-it-to-dismantle-150-nuclear-reactors-europes-about-to-find-out/2012/06/09/gJQA2EH0PV_blog.html
Makes you feel all cozy doesn't it :)
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So what is the cost of Fukushima so far? You can split in two parts, one part is the cost for TEPCO, losing face and trust. The other is the cost, so far, for handling the disaster.
Tepco: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/06/us-japan-fukushima-tepco-finances-idUSBRE9950H220131006
Fukushima: http://phys.org/news/2013-07-fukushima-nuclear-clean-up-bn.html
And we don't know what the real costs will be, I do know that USA gave up on cleaning one field they had placed a nuclear plant on, due to the costs involved, but I doubt Tepco can do the same. Japan is a relatively small island chain, holding 125 694 708 citizens, as of today. They value their land, and use it to its fullest extent.
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I'm in fact very tired of taking care not to hurt profit interests feelings :) It's time those jerks woke up to the fact that they are nothing more than ordinary citizens of whatever Country they belong. They need to become aware of that fact, and so do politicians.
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(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2Fa%2Fae%2FTrojan_implosion.gif%2F220px-Trojan_implosion.gif&hash=63919529f15788a625d686907639fd76)
There are quite a few nuclear plants that have been decommissioned, had their cores removed, and are in various stages of dismantling. One of the problems in the USA is that there has never been a good place to store the spent rods. Nor are they being recycled, thus many plants have the rods in long-term storage on-site.
A problem that no doubt will impact Fukishima is that if waste is transferred from one location to another for "disposal", it will no doubt become more. Does Japan have any low value land for waste relocation and disposal?
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Don't know Clifford. They are fiercely protective over their history, and land, as I've understood it. As well as they live on the Ring of Fire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_of_Fire)? They will also find it hard to send them somewhere else, as Africa, to bury 'out of sight out of mind'. And to be honest I think the best solution so far, is the one in where one can oversee those rods on a daily basis. Not burying them and forget.
The reason i mention Afrika is that there are some bad rumors about decontaminated materials getting disposed around there, as in the waters outside Somalia, coming from several Country's apparently. A little like Russians sinking their old armada of nuclear submarines (http://www.nationalgeographic.com/k19/radiation_main.html). On the bright side one could expect us finding a better solution for our energy in three hundred years, but that is only guess work naturally, with a assumption that we still will have a technology, and planet, working for us at that time.
(as for saying that those sunken power plants will stay intact underwater for millenniums, I leave for you to decide)
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An alternative are molten sand reactors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molten_salt_reactor) as I understand they can be used to break down the rods, into components decaying over a few hundred years, instead of over scores of millenniums. But they will bring with them other problems as they get popular. And three hundred years is actually the time we went from horse and cart to smart phone. It's not that short time at all for us humans, only geologically.
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I was thinking of the option of paying for waste disposal in Africa, but thought better of it. The money may be tempting, but it is a bad idea.
Perhaps rather than just burying the waste, one could actually refine it for reuse, but it is still a big operation.
An alternative are molten sand reactors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molten_salt_reactor) as I understand they can be used to break down the rods, into components decaying over a few hundred years, instead of over scores of millenniums. But they will bring with them other problems as they get popular. And three hundred years is actually the time we went from horse and cart to smart phone. It's not that short time at all for us humans, only geologically.
If these systems come to production, we'll see if everything works out as well as is speculated. They may find that low grade fuels don't give the desired energy production.
As far as 300 years. If one considers say 30 year generations, that is 10 generations. It is hard to think of one's great grandparents... and it takes 7 more "greats" added to that.
However, say with a 90 year lifespan, it is merely 3 to 4 lifespans. Hmmm [:-/] What are they estimating? Five - 60 year halflives? The radiation would have dropped off significantly within the first 2 or 3 halflives.
Anyway, hopefully our government will still be more or less stable in 300 years (assuming it makes it through the next few weeks). It is better than making plans for the entire time since the beginning of the Holocene, and prior to the copper, bronze, and iron ages.
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Yes it is :)
So don't sell the horse before the cart here :)
We're good at jumping from one man made disaster to another, and we seem to be able to keep us one step ahead. Maybe it will work out. But we need to find some other idea of how to share, at the same time fulfill our egos cravings. Because I see profit as the common nominator behind it all.
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The government, of course, can work at a loss for the "greater good".
It can be pretty extraordinary the amount of money the government here in the USA is willing to pay on a cleanup project. Often in excess of $1 Million per acre when the value of the land is likely closer to $10K per acre.
Then again, our government is now half shutdown because they can't figure out how to pay their bills. Unfortunately, they seem to spend more money to not work than to actually work.
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Here are some facts and figures on the Chernobyl meltdown. (http://www.chernobyl-international.com/about-chernobyl/facts-and-figures) From Chernobyl international. One can argue that you should find greater health issues in a poor, than in a rich, country but the statistics still are scary.
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A nuclear plant may be a profit making design under its productive time, assuming no bigger mishaps, but the total cost for it, including dismantling, makes me wonder. And now we've had two serious well known incidents with a lot of the nuclear plants closing in on the time limit they were supposed to run, also in Sweden. And the nuclear industry worldwide want to drive them further in time, and I would say they have two good reasons. One is the profit they can make, the other is the fear of costs for dismantling. And there the governments knows who will end up with the costs, and so it becomes 'reasonable' to let them continue over their planned life length..
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The worst point to me, with all of this kind of shady bussiness, is that those that pay will not be those reaping the profit. Meaning that people without money will be those paying in health, and deaths. Those reaping the benefits making sure to be at a good distance from the problems. From some ideal of justice I think it should be the opposite. You make sh* happens? People die from it? Well, join them. Those people dying is paying for your dinner.
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You could see it as a question of accountability, and where it should end. I say, the worse the problems you make, the harder the punishments. Or we can do as we do now :) profit-lovers without accountability, in principle free to do whatever they set their little hearts too, only questioned through extremely expensive lawsuits, for those individuals willing to pay and try for it, unless a state goes in, and that is mostly if the profit interests happens to be outside its own country.
No accountability is a very bad concept.
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There are some, presumably well meaning lies out there on the net, telling me that I can't compare this to Chernobyl, as that was worse.
Lets take some statistics, and please stop the bs about it being questionable.
" Today in Ukraine, 6,000 children are born every year with genetic heart defects. More than 3,000 will die for lack of medical attention.
Children born since 1986 are affected by a 200 percent increase in birth defects and a 250 percent increase in congenital birth deformities.
85 percent of Belarusian children are deemed to be Chernobyl victims: they carry “genetic markers” that could affect their health at any time and can be passed on to the next generation.
UNICEF found increases in children’s disease rates, including 38 percent increase in malignant tumours, 43 percent in blood circulatory illnesses and 63 percent in disorders of the bone, muscle and connective tissue system.
Belarusian doctors have identified increases in a number of cancers, including: a 200 percent increase in breast cancer, a 100 percent increase in the incidence of cancer and leukemia, and a 2,400 percent increase in the incidence of thyroid cancer.
More than one million children continue to live in contaminated zones. The mortality rates among the population already outstrip their birth rates. "
Short and sweet, isn't it? And this is nothing, compared to what Fukushima may end in. It may end in northern Japan being inhabitable for any life, unless you enjoy a early death and mutations. As for the rest of the globe? Well, with several half lives before anything being 'humanely safe', we should be able to presume some medium scenario of maybe? 50 000 years, how's that for the slowest decaying radioactive substances?
So, how much time do you expect those substances to need? To cover a Earth, following the natural circle, killing living things that breaths it in through dust or ingest it through food and water, Finally returning to the ground, lifted out with groundwater, rain, winds, streams etc etc. to start it all over again. Fifty millenniums, as a guess.
those laboring with this as acceptable risks have no accountability, and if worst come to worst, will still escape responsibility. Most often the defense used have been that they, or 'nobody' could imagine it happening. Do you believe this? I don't, I do believe profit will make you 'one-eyed' though. and that one is a general truth, for all profit making interests.
Why not read through this one.
Fukushima apocalypse. (http://rt.com/news/fukushima-apocalypse-fuel-removal-598/)
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Kill one, that's a murder. Kill a hundred, you're a serial killer. Kill a million? It's a 'unfortunate disaster'.
No accountability.
Democracy turned into a game of lobbying by profit and other interests.
Democratic states behaving as if they govern people, one-sidedly deciding what is best for you.
It's a bad mistake assuming that politics is democracy. Democracy is you and me voting, then finding servants of the state applying what we voted about. It goes from the people to the state, not the other way around. Whatever the state 'gives back' is earned by us all, paying for it naturally. Some can't, or just won't. Either due to no money, or too much money. The funny thing being that the last category of people are the ones we gives the most attention to too :) And it is funny, if you think a little. Personally, I wouldn't give those the time of the day.
what does that tell us, about ourselves?
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It's worth looking carefully at the reported statistics of childhood tumors, in particular. we know from carefully controlled epidemiology that radiogenic hard tumors take about 10 - 20 years to express as clinically significant, and childhood cancer is very rare. So (a) any tumor occuring under the age of say 10 is most unlikely to be caused by gamma radiation and (b) if you only found one tumor per 10,000 per year before an event, and four in 3 years after the event, you have prima facie a 33% increase in incidence, but more probably just the result of the incident making you look more closely at the population. I know that medical services in Belarus have improved significantly since Chernobyl, so even if the true incidence of a particular disease had decreased, the likelihood is that the reported incidence will have increased. In a less emotive area, it turns out that the difference in rates of death from heart disease between Britain and France is almost entirely due to a French disdain for writing it on a death certificate when "natural causes" would cause less upset to the relatives. Be very wary of statistics that don't make biological sense!
And apropos emotive matters. I wonder why Clifford has decorated his posting with a clip of a non-nuclear cooling tower being demolished by conventional explosives?
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Seems so. But Alan, where do you get your views from? What do you see as being "carefully controlled epidemiology"? Laboratory experiments? And this is statistics cited, are you telling me that their handling of statistics changed as between the 'before the Chernobyl accident'. to after it? Have you a proof for that? If you really want something to bite in I linked Free Ebook; Chernobyl: Consequences of the Catastrophe for People and the Environment (http://agreenroad.blogspot.se/2012/04/free-ebook-chernobyl-consequences-of.html).
It's somewhat weird that the Country, now countries, that in fact have the best practical experience of what nuclear pollution means, from their own risky behavior earlier, are getting ignored by our part of the world, having the least practical experience. And Russians do both statistics, medical science and mathematics, quite well.
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What worries me, if we move the question of how they will handle the removal of fuel rods aside for a second is also this.
"We have three 100-ton melted fuel blobs underground, but where exactly they are located, no one knows. Whatever ‘barriers’ TEPCO has put in place so far have failed. Efforts to decontaminate radioactive water have failed. Robots have failed. Camera equipment and temperature gauges…failed. Decontamination of surrounding cities has failed.
We have endless releases into the Pacific Ocean that will be ongoing for not only our lifetimes, but our children’s’ lifetimes. We have 40 million people living in the Tokyo area nearby"
Why would that be?
" At the time of the Fukushima accident an unprecedented quantity of highly radioactive water was also released into the Pacific Ocean. But it hasn’t stopped. TEPCO (Tokyo Electric Power Company) now admits that 300 tons of this water has been leaking into the Pacific every day since the accident 30 months ago and so far 270,000 tons of water has been released.
It is becoming apparent that the three molten cores, each weighing 120 to 130 tons have not only melted their way through 6 inches of steel in the reactor vessels, but they now either sit on concrete floors of the severely cracked containment buildings or they have melted their way into the earth itself – this, in nuclear parlance, is called ‘A Melt Through to China Syndrome’.
Because the reactor complex was built upon an ancient river bed located at the base of a mountain range, huge quantities of water flowing down from the mountains (1,000 tons daily) are circulating around these highly radioactive cores absorbing large concentrations of radioactive elements.
TEPCO constructed a type of concrete dam near the sea front to prevent this radioactive water from entering the sea. But the continuous flow of water built up behind the dam and overflowed into the Pacific Ocean. Each reactor core contains as much radiation as that released by 1,000 Hiroshima-sized bombs and contains more than 200 different radioactive elements, which variously last seconds to millions of years." From Many generations’ health at stake. (http://rt.com/op-edge/fukushima-catastrophe-health-japan-803/) A very well written piece by Helen Caldicott (http://rt.com/op-edge/authors/helen-caldicott/)
Worth reading.
there was an study on global warming recently, querying people on their thoughts. In it a overwhelming majority thought main stream science being correct in that we had a global warming. But when it came to if they thought themselves, and their locality, involved in the coming climate changes, a majority expected it to happen 'somewhere else', not where they themselves lived :)
reminds me of this, we don't want it to happen, and if we keep quiet about it, maybe it will go away?
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This one might also be interesting.
"Children are 10 to 20 times more sensitive to the carcinogenic effects of radiation than adults, fetuses are thousands of times more so. One x-ray to the pregnant abdomen doubles the likelihood of leukemia in the baby. Females are also more sensitive than men at all ages. Radiation is cumulative, there is no safe dose and each dose received by a person adds to the risk of developing cancer.
Of great concern is the fact that 18 cases of childhood thyroid cancer in children under the age of 18 have already been diagnosed and 25 more are suspected in Fukushima. This is a remarkably short incubation time for cancer, indicating that these children almost certainly received a very high dose of iodine 131 plus other carcinogenic radioactive elements that were and are still being inhaled and ingested. Thyroid cancer in Chernobyl victims did not appear for four years. Thyroid cancer is rarely found in young children. Iodine 131 is radioactive for 100 days, and is a potent carcinogen. Iodine 129 on the other hand lasts millions of years. Over 350,000 children still live and go to school in highly radioactive areas, and as juvenile thyroid cancers are arising, so the number of leukemia cases will start to increase about two years from now, with solid cancers of various organs diagnosed about 11 years later. These will increase in frequency for the next 70 -80 years.
Food in the contaminated zone will remain radioactive for hundreds of years because it will continue to bio-accumulate radioactive elements from the soil, thus ensuring that an increased incidence of cancer will devastate many future Japanese generations.
Medical doctors in Japan are reporting that they have been ordered by their superiors not to tell the patients that their problems are radiation related. " Also from Helen Caldicott.
A very ugly response to truth that been tried before, in the Soviet Union.
"A report on the health of the people living on the banks of the Techa River was published in 1991, which showed that the incidence of leukemia increased by 41% since 1950. From 1980 to 1990, all cancers in this population rose by 21% and all diseases of the circulatory system rose by 31%. These figures are probably gross under-estimations, because local physicians were instructed to limit the number of death certificates they issued with diagnosis of cancer and other radiation-related illnesses. According to Gulfarida Galimova, a local doctor who has been keeping records in lieu of official statistics, the average life span for women in Muslyumovo in 1993 was 47, compared to the country average of 72. The average life span of Muslyumovo men was 45 compared to 69 for the entire country.
Chelyabinsk regional hospitals were not allowed to treat the villagers and they were sent to the Ural Centre for Radiation Medicine. The medical data of the UCRM was classified until 1990. Records of the UCRM chart the decline in health of 28,000 people along the Techa and all of them are classed as seriously irradiated. Since the 1960s, these people have been examined regularly by public health officials.
According to the head of the UCRM clinical department the rate of leukemia has doubled in the last two decades. Skin cancers have quadrupled over the last 33 years. The total number of people suffering from cancer has risen by 21%. The number of people suffering from vascular diseases has risen 31%. Birth defects have increased by 25%. Kosenko carried out a small epidemiological study of 100 people selected at random. From this group 96% had at least five chronic diseases (heart diseases, high blood pressure, arthritis and asthma), 30% had as many as ten chronic conditions.
Local doctors estimate that half the men and women at child bearing age are sterile." From Chelyabinsk: The Most Contaminated Spot on the Planet. (http://www.wentz.net/radiate/cheyla/)
Although, maybe it will have to share that infamy, considering Fukushima, and also the question of what will happen with those nuclear power plants being closest to it, as Fukushima II, residing just some eleven kilometers from our now infamous Fukushima. It's worse than I thought, Fukushima.
Or would anyone know where else we have spent fuel rods burning, " three 100-ton melted fuel blobs underground' formerly three reactors. Doesn't really matter to me that they are underground, if now that is correct. It will move out following ground water anyway.
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So should profit be held accountable for their mistakes?
Y e s.
Why?
Because if you are accountable, you will find reason to think it through twice, before promising too much. And if you gamble on it 'working out' you will go to court. As it is, the only ones going to court are the victims of your folly. furthermore, having ones 'peers' judging one, is not satisfying to me. Can you see what I aim at? What is a crime against humanity? And if there would be one, who would you want to judge those committing it?
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Also, what is a fitting punishment?
I don't know there.
Either I have to presume that it was ignorance leading to this, or incompetence. Japan? Ignorant of atomic power :) Give me a break. They if anybody should know about atomic power. So, how about lying then? Just telling the good stuff, keeping quiet about the bad? A trait shared by fanatics, con men, and those wanting profit, by any price. And how about egoism, arrogance, a firm belief in ones own understanding of consequences, although as we can see here, not getting it at all? Well, yeah, as long as we admit that those traits are here too, in both Europe and USA.
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Profit? Liability?
I suppose that is one of the things that I dislike about the insurance industry.
Mistakes happen, and certainly our collective knowledge about radiation has increased significantly since 1940 or so. And, over time, we've also learned a lot about metal fatigue and such.
At the same time, many organizations will choose the absolute minimum they can get by with. Spend less, more profit in the sort run. But, society should not be liable for one person's greed.
Designing a system so that a 3rd party pays for someone's ill thought actions is a disservice to everyone.
Why build a house inside the 100 year (or 1000 year) flood plain? Should those individuals that build on a hillside be held liable for those building in the flood plain?
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If you're interested in walking round Fukushima, having a Google account, it seems you can download a geo map from http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=991423&filename=Fukushima%20I%20Nuclear%20Power%20Plant%20NL.kmz
Thanks too http://blog.geoblogspot.com/2011/04/fukushima-i-npp-network-link.html
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By the way, you can put the web address of a KML file into the search bar of Google Maps (http://maps.google.com), and it will display the information.
In the above case, you can download the file, then select "copy download link" to recover the actual link location.
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Well, don't know what to say about someone just building a house for himself at some bad spot Clifford. It should be the insurance company using some common sense I hope. But if he was building a nuclear power plant there instead I think I would have a lot to say, especially after Fukushima :) Tried to see the levels of radioactivity here in Sweden (air born particles) from Fukushima, but it seemed we only did a partial analysis in 2011, reporting the air born radioactivity as negligible for our part. Then again, with three reactors 'shielded' and possibly underground it should become a slower process, although I doubt it will be easier to handle, there's a lot of unknowns though.
"Abstract: This report presents a short summary of detections within the international monitoring system (IMS) operated by the Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty Organization (CTBTO) after the nuclear accident at the nuclear power plant in Fukushima Daiichi, Japan on 11 March, 2011. The analysis presented in this report mainly covers measurements outside of Japan. Detections within the Swedish national network for particulate radioactivity in ground level air are also presented. The measurements indicate an initial eastbound spread of radioactivity from Fukushima, over the Pacific Ocean to North America and then passing the Atlantic Ocean to Europe and Asia. Later releases passed on a more southward route over the Pacific Ocean.
About three weeks after the accident radioactive xenon was homogeneously spread over the northern hemisphere, and the activity concentration decreased with the rate of the physical half-life. The particulate radioactivity in the atmosphere decreased faster than the physical half-life of the radionuclides due to deposition. The particulate radioactivity from the accident was dominated by radioactive iodine. The results of the gaseous iodine measurements in Sweden indicate that the particulate fraction of the total iodine was only about 25 %. Apart from iodine, cesium and tellurium were also detected, however at lower activity concentrations. The activity reached Sweden about 10 days after the accident and measured radioactivity was dominated by 131I. Maximum concentration levels in Sweden were measured during 28 March - 2 April and the concentrations of 131I were below detection limits in the middle of May. In Sweden, measured radioactivity concentrations in air and deposition were only a fraction of measured activity levels after the Chernobyl accident in 1986.
The accident at Fukushima will therefore not give any long term consequences in Sweden."
Kind of like the finishing comment there, in a slightly sour way. :)
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If you have a Google account :) I think? At least it refused to let me to the correct download address, instead linking me to set up a account?
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Don't have Google earth on this one, so I can't test copy and paste the link into it, if that is how you mean?
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Ah well. Keep on using saltwater to cool may not be the smartest thing, although probably the easiest short time solution.
" Per Peterson, chair of the department of nuclear engineering at UC Berkeley:The primary containment vessel, it’s being left submerged in salty water and is corroding. So by not making prudent decisions today about what water must be discharged and what water can be safely discharged and instead just storing it all, the risk is it will make it in the longer term much less likely that it will be possible to get the damaged fuel out. And so by misdirecting a lot of the effort to do things that don’t reduce risk significantly, they’re creating in Japan a much larger probability that in the end it will not be possible to get the damaged fuel out, and they will have to manage those plants at that site for millennia going into the future.
Tom Ashbrook, Host: Millennia, that means thousands of years. […]
Peterson: You want to be trying to flush out all of that salt that was injected into these reactors, which right now is contributing to the corrosion of these primary containment vessels, that if they don’t survive it will become challenging or impossible to get the damaged fuel out."
And then we have Wipha. (http://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/typhoon-wipha-aims-to-batter-t/18839653)
It must be nerve racking living close to Fukushima today. Isn't the typhoon season said to end in September? Checking it seems as it can continue into October too.
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The primary containment vessel, it’s being left submerged in salty water and is corroding.
I'd think they could start flushing out the salt water by now. But, perhaps it is all in the details.
How thick is the vessel?
How much is it corroding?
Cast Iron was often used for drain pipes in the past. A good cast iron pipe will last a century or so before it will go bad.
Lots of ships hulls are also made of solid steel.
The Arizona has 13" steel armor plating that has been submerged since 1941. Undoubtedly it is corroding a bit, but it will take a few more years for the ocean to eat through it.
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You can listen to it here (http://onpoint.wbur.org/2013/09/03/radiation-risks-fukushima) Clifford. It's a podcast. As for Wipha, she? Seems to have stayed outside Fukushima, Tokyo, and the mainland. Typhoon Wipha kills several, but misses Tokyo and Fukushima. (http://www.dw.de/typhoon-wipha-kills-several-but-misses-tokyo-and-fukushima/a-17161393) which is good news.
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Some of the facts, hopefully.
"There are 5,040 assemblies in the 6 overhead pools at Fukushima I NPP, plus 6,375 in the common pool. They only have capacity for 4,954, so already, the Fukushima NPP was over capacity during normal operations (102%). There are just 408 assemblies in the dry cask storage, which currently is full, and needs re-constructing. Due to it being close to the ocean, it was also flooded, and its integrity has not been confirmed, cranes were damaged and monitoring instruments broken. They'll also need to build a new facility for the new assemblies. The Spent Fuel Pool at reactor 4 has fuel assemblies going back to 1980, with the hottest from 2010.
Fukushima II NPP has 6,746 fuel assemblies in their overhead pools, around 85% of the capacity."
Fukushima II being Fukushimas 'sister', 11.5 km away, with slightly different, and hopefully better, precautions introduced into its design. Seen some refer to Fukushima as an 'American' prototype that since that been modified in later nuclear plants for the Japanese situation. On the other hand, it's the same guys wanting to sell their improved designs to other Countries.
Now some want us to think that there is no way you can compare the radiation from a 'slow' burn with the one seen in a atomic explosion. I think they are right, but I also think that this slow burn are worse.
"I asked top spent-fuel pools expert Mr. Robert Alvarez, former Senior Policy Adviser to the Secretary and Deputy Assistant Secretary for National Security and the Environment at the U.S. Department of Energy, for an explanation of the potential impact of the 11,421 rods.
I received an astounding response from Mr. Alvarez [updated 4/5/12]:
In recent times, more information about the spent fuel situation at the Fukushima-Dai-Ichi site has become known. It is my understanding that of the 1,532 spent fuel assemblies in reactor No. 304 assemblies are fresh and unirradiated. This then leaves 1,231 irradiated spent fuel rods in pool No. 4, which contain roughly 37 million curies (~1.4E+18 Becquerel) of long-lived radioactivity. The No. 4 pool is about 100 feet above ground, is structurally damaged and is exposed to the open elements. If an earthquake or other event were to cause this pool to drain this could result in a catastrophic radiological fire involving nearly 10 times the amount of Cs-137 released by the Chernobyl accident.
The infrastructure to safely remove this material was destroyed as it was at the other three reactors. Spent reactor fuel cannot be simply lifted into the air by a crane as if it were routine cargo. In order to prevent severe radiation exposures, fires and possible explosions, it must be transferred at all times in water and heavily shielded structures into dry casks.. As this has never been done before, the removal of the spent fuel from the pools at the damaged Fukushima-Dai-Ichi reactors will require a major and time-consuming re-construction effort and will be charting in unknown waters. Despite the enormous destruction cased at the Da–Ichi site, dry casks holding a smaller amount of spent fuel appear to be unscathed.
Based on U.S. Energy Department data, assuming a total of 11,138 spent fuel assemblies are being stored at the Dai-Ichi site, nearly all, which is in pools. They contain roughly 336 million curies (~1.2 E+19 Bq) of long-lived radioactivity. About 134 million curies is Cesium-137 — roughly 85 times the amount of Cs-137 released at the Chernobyl accident as estimated by the U.S. National Council on Radiation Protection (NCRP). The total spent reactor fuel inventory at the Fukushima-Daichi site contains nearly half of the total amount of Cs-137 estimated by the NCRP to have been released by all atmospheric nuclear weapons testing, Chernobyl, and world-wide reprocessing plants (~270 million curies or ~9.9 E+18 Becquerel).
It is important for the public to understand that reactors that have been operating for decades, such as those at the Fukushima-Dai-Ichi site have generated some of the largest concentrations of radioactivity on the planet.
Many of our readers might find it difficult to appreciate the actual meaning of the figure, yet we can grasp what 85 times more Cesium-137 than the Chernobyl would mean. It would destroy the world environment and our civilization. This is not rocket science, nor does it connect to the pugilistic debate over nuclear power plants. This is an issue of human survival. "
Don't know if it has to be this bad, but consider the way radiation keeps raising, and combine it with global warming, species already migrating, in different ways depending on environment. In the rain-forest they've started to migrate downwards :) actually. Down to the ground, just to keep the precise 'climate' they can live in. Believe it or not, but they seem very climate sensitive, more so than the European animals. But after meeting the ground, there will be no new miracle for them.
Just extrapolate a little, add some more greed, and people not giving a f*, as long as they can make a buck. Add Methane extraction and leaking underwater pipelines, as that is the new give. And place yourself fifty years from now.
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There are a few time tested ways I think people react on disaster, one is hopeful, believing that we all will learn to do better, from whatever situation we get ourselves into. The other comes when people realize that those that refuse to learn from it, keeping the same attitude as before but now even more cynical and blatant, also becomes those taking advantage of the situation, getting rich from it. That's when people starts to ask themselves what the use is of trying. We had it in the 1400 when the black pest hit Europe, that was a time when people thought that heaven was just one step aside, and hell. The apocalypse as they thought of it. We're not that different from them, better technology, and possibly better rules for what warfare should be, but also gruesome technological, chemical and biological advances, as in Syria recently. I think we are much the same animals, then as now, and as far as I've read, this was the way they reacted on what came under and after the black pest hit Europe.
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Talking about activities is a bit futile. Can you translate any of your figures into population committed dose? That is the measure of risk.
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Nah, we're much the same animals :)
On good and bad..
Hope you enjoy slightly black humor. After all, it's our ability to laugh at ourselves that make us so precious :)
Radiation won't affect happy people. (http://www.naturalnews.com/041720_Fukushima_radiation_Japanese_government_propaganda_brainwashing.html)
And before you get all uppity, how much do you remember being reported at home, about the situation in Fukushima this last year? By our papers? And what about our concerned Politicians? The laugh is a much on us as on them.
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Ah, no Alan. Don't think anyone can say? you can extrapolate depending on winds streams etc, but it would still be a guess. And we don't know what kind of burn it could become either.
"Recriticality & Autocatalytic oxidation leading to a runaway reaction are concerns at the FDNPP facility. The Fukushima Spent Fuel has already been reconfigured.
http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=11263
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:TPYl5bvaz-kJ:www.na...
http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=11263&page=38
http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=11263&page=39
SAFETY AND SECURITY OF COMMERCIAL SPENT NUCLEAR FUEL STORAGE
Public Report
The committee could probably design configurations in which fuel might be deformed or relocated to enable its re-criticality, but the committee judges such an event to be unlikely. Also, the committee notes that while re-criticality would certainly be an undesirable outcome, criticality accidents have happened several times at locations around the world and have not been catastrophic offsite. An accompanying breach of the fuel cladding would still be the chief concern.
That is, the reaction heat will increase temperatures in adjacent areas of the fuel rod, which in turn will accelerate oxidation and release even more heat. Autocatalytic oxidation leading to a “runaway” reaction requires a complex balance of heat and mass transfer, so assigning a specific ignition temperature is not possible. Empirical equations have been developed to predict the reaction rate as a function of temperature when steam and oxygen supply are not limited (see, e.g., Tong and Weisman, 1996, p. 223). Numerous scaled experiments have found that the oxidation reaction proceeds very slowly below approximately 900°C (1700°F)."
Nobody knows exactly what is going on there now either.
Not even those on site it seems.
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The point with such a burn though, should be that it will be impossible to handle it 'close up' as thought. You won't be able to control anything once it started, you shouldn't be able to be anywhere near it as I understands it.
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Criticality accidents. from Operational Accidents and Radiation Exposure Experience Within the United States Atomic Energy Commission, 1943-1970, U.S. Government Printing Office: Washington, D.C., 1971. (http://www.cddc.vt.edu/host/atomic/accident/critical.html)
Then you have the Database of Radiological Incidents and Related Events. (http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/nuclear/radevents/) which is compiled by Wm. Robert Johnston.
"There was speculation although not confirmed within criticality accident experts, that Fukushima 3 suffered a criticality accident. Based on incomplete information about the 2011 Fukushima I nuclear accidents, Dr. Ferenc Dalnoki-Veress speculates that transient criticalities may have occurred there.[27] Noting that limited, uncontrolled chain reactions might occur at Fukushima I, a spokesman for the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) “emphasized that the nuclear reactors won’t explode.”[28] By March 23, 2011, neutron beams had already been observed 13 times at the crippled Fukushima nuclear power plant. While a criticality accident was not believed to account for these beams, the beams could indicate nuclear fission is occurring.[29] On April 15, TEPCO reported that nuclear fuel had melted and fallen to the lower containment sections of three of the Fukushima I reactors, including reactor three. The melted material was not expected to breach one of the lower containers, which could cause a massive radiation release. Instead, the melted fuel is thought to have dispersed uniformly across the lower portions of the containers of reactors No. 1, No. 2 and No. 3, making the resumption of the fission process, known as a "recriticality", most unlikely.[30]" Criticality accident. Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticality_accident)
Comparison of Fukushima and Chernobyl nuclear accidents. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Fukushima_and_Chernobyl_nuclear_accidents) Although the exclusion zones seems questionable, in Chernobyl's case now being set to 70 km "The exclusion zone, known as “Death Valley,” has been increased from 30 to 70 square kilometers". No humans will ever be able to live in it again." When it comes to the Japanese exclusion I set my trust to the American recommendations for its citizens there, think it was seventy, up to a hundred kilometers away. The Japanese government and Tepco. seems more worried about its citizens reactions on being given the truth, than on protecting peoples health and lives. Not so strange maybe as they seem to sit in each other pockets Tepco and the government, goes one, goes both.
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About mice and men.
As for discussing the impact on people, of radiation, be it a high intermittent dosage or a low constant over a accumulation in, and of, years, or any combination, I would look to statistics first. And we have such, from Chernobyl, and Chelyabinsk. A sort of darkly funny part of this discussion is whether to trust any statistics, not made in a western laboratory, by mice :)
Because as the argument goes, we are so alike, mice and humans. Well, it depends, and it actually does. there are research done in western countries questioning this old adage, I know because I have read about it, although it is some time ago. I'll see if I can find it later. Another funny thing is how slow western science adapt to statistics that refuses to be explained away as a result of bad diets, financial situation, etc etc. Even when it can't be explained away, a great deal of doubt stays, in any western report. After all, where was the mice, or was it rats?
"There are many claims concerning the health of children in the contaminated territories around Chernobyl, which seem to suffer from multiple diseases and co-morbidities with repeated manifestations (compilation in Yablokov 2009). The reports from international organizations did not give until now much interest in the multiple publications by Ukrainian, Russian and Byelorussian researchers on children’s morbidity. This is partly due to the fact that many of these studies were not available in English but also to the fact that they often did not meet the scientific and editorial criteria generally required in the currently peer reviewed literature. The tone of Yablokov’s book also produced an uneasy feeling in readers (Jackson 2011).
More or less recent studies brought again this issue into light, including the controversial publications of Bandazhevsky (Bandazhevsky 2001), linking 137Cs body loads with ECG alterations and cardiovascular symptoms in children such as arterial hypertension, and the studies on neurobehavioral and cognitive performances in children of the contaminated areas (for example Loganovsky 2008). To verify these observations, IRSN conducted series of animal studies. Rats were exposed to 137Cs contamination during several months (generally 3 months, sometimes 9) through drinking water containing 6500 Bq/L. Intake of 137Cs was estimated to be 150 Bq/day/animal (500 Bq/kg of body weight), a figure that is considered by the authors to be comparable with a typical intake in the contaminated territories (based on Handl’s evaluation in Ukraine: 100 Bq/day with variations, according to geographical location and diet, from 20 up to 2000 Bq/day as in the case of special dietary habits like excess consumption of mushrooms) (Handl 2003).
Although the animals tested in these studies did not show induced clinical diseases, biological effects were observed on various systems: impairments in the cardiovascular system such as an increase of CK and CK-MG, markers of possible heart muscle damage; decrease of mean blood pressure and disappearance of its circadian rhythm (Guéguen 2008); in the Central Nervous System: EEG modifications, perturbations of the sleep-wake cycle, regional 137Cs accumulation in the brain stem (Lestaevel 2006); molecular modifications of pro- and anti-inflammatory cytokines and NO-ergic pathway in the brain, indicators of a neuro-inflammatory response, particularly in the hippocampus (Lestaevel 2008); and in various metabolic systems: alteration of vitamine D metabolism, associated with a dysregulation of mineral homeostasis (Tissandie 2008); alteration of testicular and adrenal steroidogenesis (Grignard 2007). These somewhat scattered and sometimes contradictory results are difficult to interpret and the link between all these modifications is far from being obvious.
It must be underlined that these somewhat unexpected results are obtained after relatively modest intakes of 137Cs and that a fraction of the population in the contaminated territories has been shown to incorporate ten times more 137Cs with their food. This justifies further investigation in this field. IRSN is currently performing a clinical research (EPICE) on children in the area of Bryansk, particularly on cardiac rhythm and ECG perturbations. First results would be available in 2013. "
It seems easy to joke about radiation those days :) Take a look at what comes up searching for what a dangerous dose is over ten years. You won't get a answer, but you will learn it just can't be dangerous, whatever dosage is discussed, well, any dosage not killing you right of that is, as at Hiroshima. Although you will on the other hand see practical reactions telling you that you need to take care, when the sh* hits the fan. As the American response to Fukushima, warning Americans of, at a 100 km basis. Or your dentists new x-ray machine, developed for a lot of money to minimize any radiation.
I would use statistics, even if faulty compared to a Western clinical standard of laboratory conditions, first, then conduct experiments checking if I could corroborate those statistics by animal experiments.. I would not draw the conclusion 'as in mice so in a man' and from there question the statistics as my mice, or rats, doesn't react the same.
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The real point of a radioactive situation is that there is no real thing your government can do for you, more than advise you on what may be best for avoiding getting too contaminated. They can't protect you, and although a insurance may pay your hospital bill, it won't restore your health, well, you will have a better chance naturally to get it back, at some time. So the question is not really whether you, or I, can stand an increase of Earths 'Back ground' radiation, but rather if we really want to? And even more so, if we want our kids to?
If you read Helen Caldicott's article she writes.
"Children are 10 to 20 times more sensitive to the carcinogenic effects of radiation than adults, fetuses are thousands of times more so. One x-ray to the pregnant abdomen doubles the likelihood of leukemia in the baby. Females are also more sensitive than men at all ages.
Radiation is cumulative, there is no safe dose and each dose received by a person adds to the risk of developing cancer"
So, I would say that this is what it really is about, not Fukushima, not 'now', neither Chernobyl.
And that is also what I think you have to ask yourself :)
Is it worth it?
"Over 350,000 children still live and go to school in highly radioactive areas, and as juvenile thyroid cancers are arising, so the number of leukemia cases will start to increase about two years from now, with solid cancers of various organs diagnosed about 11 years later.
These will increase in frequency for the next 70 -80 years."
And yes, there actually exist statistics, even if uncomfortable to us, and possibly seen as downright 'faulty', compared to one meeting clinically perfect conditions.
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Unfortunately my deathless prose was timed out in the small hours of the morning, but to answer your question of where do I get my figures, I tend to rely on the International Commission on Radiological Protection, which has been collecting and collating actual incident and outcome data since 1926.
Statements such as
Children are 10 to 20 times more sensitive to the carcinogenic effects of radiation than adults, fetuses are thousands of times more so.
are not supported by evidence and
One x-ray to the pregnant abdomen doubles the likelihood of leukemia in the baby.
is meaningless (even if it were true) unless you know the natural likelihood. Fact is that irradiation from the mother's essential potassium amounts to about 1 milligray fetal exposure over 9 months, and an abdominal x-ray might add another 0.1 to 1 mGy. There are no reports of fetal abnormality or detectable increase in childhood leukemia below 50 mGy.
It's an interesting subject, and indeed it has been a satisfying career. As a professional radiation protection adviser with friends in Kiev and business interests in Belarus, I don't think I can be accused of ignoring the problem (as you suggested we all do, in an earlier posting), but it's a lot easier to handle in perspective with real , meaningful numbers.
Yesterday, 20 people were killed by a hurricane in Japan. Two years ago, 20,000 were killed by a tsunami. What makes the headlines today? A nonevent at a power station.
More anon, when I get back from a field trip! I'll talk about preferred diagnoses and latency periods.
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Interesting Allan. So you doubt her numbers, if I understands you right?
Then I think you should turn to her, and question them publicly. She's available, and I'm sure she will explain how she got to those conclusions. As for ignoring the problem? Don't remember me writing that we ignore it, just that it been quiet from the papers and our Politicians, as far as I've seen. Fukushima was very big news 2011, not as much 2012, with it now turning again, as they are preparing to lift out those rods manually.
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If you on the other hand mean that I expected a much livelier public discussion, and that I think that both papers and politicians have preferred to ignore it I agree. Because that is what I think.
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I can agree on some of her conclusions being questionable, you should really contact her, and ask for references. Like the one with one x-ray doubling the cancer-risk for a infant. But I still expect the real question to be if we really want more back ground radiation, not if we will leap a risk of extinction just because of Fukushima. I don't think we do it myself, humans have survived a lot of things through history, as the black pest is a excellent example of.
And then we have those molten salt reactors. They are one solution, if working as expected, on the problem of breaking down fuel rods, spent or unspent, as well as MOX. But they are short term solutions to me. It's not a thing I would like to see in all country's, constantly producing 300 years of radioactive waste, on a yearly basis. As I said before, 300 years may sound very quick geologically, but for us humans it's the time between using horse and cart, and our present.
Although we have to be practical, and I don't think our present arrangements of power can be satisfied with just natural resources. And if faced with a choice between destabilizing frozen methane under water, to get to that 'natural gas', or trying for some least dangerous type of molten salt reactor I expect I would go for molten salt myself, and thorium. But I would not want to see it implicated world wide, as some 'final energy solution', only if absolutely necessary, other more 'green solutions' as wind, sun water etc, already utilized and found lacking. And I also think we should combine it with a population limit of maybe half the one we find today on Earth. That would simplify a lot of things for us, naturally, just by limiting it to one kid per person for some future.
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but all of that would be 'long time planning', and as we seem notoriously bad on implementing and fulfilling such? But they are both simple and practical solutions, and would give us rather fast responses in form of more resources per person, and a cleaner environment as we break down our plutonium. But a molten salt reactor will produce radioactive substances too, even if of a shorter life span. This is a interesting read about it, and also points out that while we have little experience of it, we do have a lot of, sometimes questionable, theory. The Molten Salt Reactor concept (http://daryanenergyblog.wordpress.com/ca/part-8-msr-lftr/)
So I don't know. I hope it will work out, as I think it's a da**d step better than what we use today, as our beloved Fukushima. But what I really expect to make a direct impact would be us restricting our population. We should be able to notice that in one generation, with each generation after whipping this Earth into a better shape. All without a war.
But it's about planning, isn't it?
No profit in it :) It's the masses that consume, isn't it?
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From a purely geeky physics notion.
"Fissioning 1000 kg of uranium produces 988 kg of fission products, 11 kg of neutrons, and only 1 kg is actually converted to energy via E=MC2.
A nuclear reactor really is a fission product production plant. The 0.1% that gets converted to heat is a mere minor byproduct. That’s how powerful E=MC2 is."
On the other hand, now, what are fission products?
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Interesting Allan. So you doubt her numbers, if I understands you right?
Not just me, but the entire worldwide profession of radiological protection advisers and the law itself. And with good reason. As I stated, fetal irradiation from maternal potassium is about 1 mGy over 9 months. Now some people live in East Anglia, where the additional natural external doserate is about 2 mSv/yr, possibly adding another 0.5 mGy to the fetal dose, and some live in Colorado where the background gamma doserate can approach 20 mSv/yr, adding at least 5 mSv to the fetal dose. So if the incidence of childhood leukemia traceable to external radiation in utero is significant, we should find 5 times as much in Boulder as in Norwich. I haven't the time to look right now, but you may care to search the literature a bit.
Something that turned up very quickly, however, is
http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Sites-Types/childhood
Long-term trends in incidence for leukemias and brain tumors, the most common childhood cancers, show patterns that are somewhat different from the others. Incidence of childhood leukemias appeared to rise in the early 1980s, with rates increasing from 3.3 cases per 100,000 in 1975 to 4.6 cases per 100,000 in 1985. Rates in the succeeding years have shown no consistent upward or downward trend and have ranged from 3.7 to 4.9 cases per 100,000 (2).
These were the years during which we reduced all x-ray doses by a factor of 2 - 4 by introducing rare-earth intensifying screens - starting in the USA.
And
For childhood brain tumors, the overall incidence rose from 1975 through 2004, from 2.3 to 3.2 cases per 100,000 (2), with the greatest increase occurring from 1983 through l986. An article in the September 2, 1998, issue of the Journal of the National Cancer Institute suggests that the rise in incidence from 1983 through 1986 may not have represented a true increase in the number of cases, but may have reflected new forms of imaging equipment (magnetic resonance imaging or MRI) that enabled visualization of brain tumors that could not be easily visualized with older equipment (3). Other important developments during this time period included the changing classification of brain tumors, which resulted in tumors previously designated as “benign” being reclassified as “malignant,” and improvements in neurosurgical techniques for biopsying brain tumors. Regardless of the explanation for the increase in incidence that occurred from 1983 to 1986, childhood brain tumor incidence has been essentially stable since the mid-1980s.
which bears consideration when looking at reported increases in various cancers in the Chernobyl region. As I said earlier, in medicine you tend only to find what you are looking for, and I doubt that many family doctors were looking for early signs of thyroid cancer before the explosion. My suspicions were raised when people started reporting increases within a year or two of the incident - radiogenic tumors generally take a decade or more to express, so if you find a tumor in a 3 year old, or 6 months after the trigger event that made you look, it probably ain't radiogenic.
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On the other hand, now, what are fission products?
All sorts of nasty crap, mostly with atomic numbers around 120 - iodine, cesium, strontium...some of it potentially useful but all requiring a lot of care and attention. U235 and Pu210 are actually not very radioactive: they have long halflives and emit mostly alpha radiation, so are easy to handle, but fission products tend to have short lives and emit gamma radiation, making the spent fuel a lot more awkward.
But what I really expect to make a direct impact would be us restricting our population. We should be able to notice that in one generation, with each generation after whipping this Earth into a better shape. All without a war.
Hear, hear! It's the solution to everything except economic expansion.
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Heh :)
I agree Alan, and that's finally becomes a question of how much one needs? To feel good about oneself I think.
As a by-point, and I think this is interesting. Purely from the way we are set up, sort of :) Seen the statement that coal works produce more 'radioactivity' than a nuclear power plant? You don't need to be a physics major to find this statement confusing.
how can that be?
Coal, as that black stuff you mine from the ground? And the stuff I get from burning a tree too?
More radioactive than a nuclear power plant?
Now, I thought those trees seemed somewhat shady, and at last I know why :)
They're 'atomic'!! ..
Well... ok I might exaggerate this, slightly.. Possibly?
But you see it on the net, and it has such a goood cool sound to it. Coal, that radiative dangerous coal, not only polluting my atmosphere, and clothes, now also making me glow in the dark? Why do we survive all those trees, and coal? Is it my clean living? See, there are things in your immediate environment, better worth watching, as trees, and those fossil materials? What about oil?
As someone said..
"War is not an independent phenomenon, but the continuation of politics, by different means." Actually considering getting myself that axe, merely as a precaution:) Sorry. Anyway, if anyone ever wondered about it, why not read this.
"The answer to your first question is already in the article you linked. It contains the following referenced quote:
In fact, the fly ash emitted by a power plant—a by-product from burning coal for electricity—carries into the surrounding environment 100 times more radiation than a nuclear power plant producing the same amount of energy.
The paper referenced in the article is here: http://www.sciencemag.org/content/202/4372/1045.short
Radiation doses from airborne effluents of model coal-fired and nuclear power plants (1000 megawatts electric) are compared. Assuming a 1 percent ash release to the atmosphere (Environmental Protection Agency regulation) and 1 part per million of uranium and 2 parts per million of thorium in the coal (approximately the U.S. average), population doses from the coal plant are typically higher than those from pressurized-water or boiling-water reactors that meet government regulations. Higher radionuclide contents and ash releases are common and would result in increased doses from the coal plant.
The paper itself states that this result is only valid not considering nuclear accidents and nuclear waste, nor it considers non-radiological effects:
The study does not assess the impact of non-radiological pollutants or the total radiological impacts of a coal versus a nuclear economy.
Regarding your second question, it can be answered easily:
The paper itself speaks about Uranium and Thorium being released by normal operation in less than 10 parts per million - very very low doses
A bad nuclear accident leaves kilograms or tons of radioactive elements exposed or emitted
Typically nuclear waste is composed of tons of material
So it is clear that a single nuclear accident widely offsets any "gains" obtained by using a nuclear plant instead of a coal plant.
For example:
Living within 50 miles of a nuclear reactor 1 day: 0.09 µS;
Living within 50 miles of a coal plant 1 day: 0.3 µS;
Living in within 30 km of Chernobyl before evacuation: 3-150 mS (1,000×–50,000× a day of coal plant vicinity)
The first two are data from the image below, the third comes from from Wikipedia."
From Do coal plants release more radiation than nuclear power plants? (http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/1018/do-coal-plants-release-more-radiation-than-nuclear-power-plants)
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my spelling sux
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As for the suspicion you express about what a increase might mean, considering how more alert people becomes after a nuclear accident, sure. I see what you mean, but I also see what those guys living there writes about. In the end it seems to come down to from where you look at it. A little like that Japanese movie in where you have three witnesses to a same happening, presenting three different stories. That's also why i prefer it to be a discussion about what sort of natural back ground levels we are comfortable with, for this. The rest, what I try to avoid getting 'clogged down' into :) should become statistics, in some decades, or century. But the cancer rate has raised since 1945. Fallout from Nuclear Weapons Tests and Cancer Risks. (http://www.americanscientist.org/issues/feature/2006/1/fallout-from-nuclear-weapons-tests-and-cancer-risks/1)
and that becomes our new environment, natural back ground radiation. So how far are prepared to go, in the name of cheap centralized power? I make a kid, around 20-35 I study 7- 25 as some generalisation, I 'produce' say from 18- ?? In terms of producing :) making a profit for myself and hopefully for a society, maybe 18- 45 is enough? Then my kid will be ?? 10-25, as a average let's say 17, almost ready to start to 'produce'..
To me it becomes a question of how old do we need to become to have a working developing society. If we now ignore all emotionalism, instead concentrating on what we need, to see a society making intellectual progress?
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"Now some people live in East Anglia, where the additional natural external doserate is about 2 mSv/yr, possibly adding another 0.5 mGy to the fetal dose, and some live in Colorado where the background gamma doserate can approach 20 mSv/yr, adding at least 5 mSv to the fetal dose. So if the incidence of childhood leukemia traceable to external radiation in utero is significant, we should find 5 times as much in Boulder as in Norwich. I haven't the time to look right now, but you may care to search the literature a bit. "
Yeah, that's using statistics, similar environmental situations, but with a difference in whatever you want to measure the implication of. When i wrote about 'understanding those guys living there' I was more thinking of Chernobyl, as it becomes a rather unique environment, hard to find anything similar. So yes, if correct I think your point is made Alan.
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Alternatively, what percentage would need to reach what age, to have a society developing further, in the way we've been developing the last three hundred years?
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So it is clear that a single nuclear accident widely offsets any "gains" obtained by using a nuclear plant instead of a coal plant.
I think not.
The Aberfan disaster was a catastrophic collapse of a colliery spoil tip in the Welsh village of Aberfan, near Merthyr Tydfil, on 21 October 1966, killing 116 children and 28 adults. It was caused by a build-up of water in the accumulated rock and shale, which suddenly started to slide downhill in the form of slurry.
You might also consider the 12,000 people killed in London by coal smog in 1952. I have no idea what the annual coal smog death toll is in Beijing, but it's far from negligible.
Now how may people have been killed by all the nuclear power incidents* in the world, ever? About 60.
As of now, half of the annual population radiation dose in the UK comes from radon (natural emission from the ground), roughly 12 - 15% each from medical (increasing) , food, building materials and cosmic radiation, and about 0.1% (decreasing) from all the nuclear fallout, waste, and other industrial sources. Don't expect me to panic.
An additional dose of 100 mSv over 5 years does not produce any detectable increase in stochastic harm - it's the basis for the statutory dose limit for radiation workers. It was entirely reasonable to evacuate areas around Chernobyl and to prohibit occupation of areas where the lifetime committed dose could exceed 500 mSv. The area is tiny compared with that devastated by the 2011 tsunami.
*Most important of all, is to remember that Chernobyl was not an accident. It was a deliberate decision by several people to override safety systems and disobey the operating instructions for the plant, which responded exactly as the textbook predicted. I always remember being shown round the aircraft for my first flying lesson. The instructor said "This is the stall warning indicator. In all the best accidents, you will find that it has been switched off".
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Yes Alan, and I agree on that we, as a species, don't seem to worry overmuch for consequences, when developing and trying out new technology. We seem to have an innate trust in our ability to survive, combined with an innate ability to look the other way when evidence start to compile for something not being that smart, as we first thought. And I'm not sure, but I would guess that an lifespan of? Let's say fifty years, could be a average, historically, for mankind? Not sure of course, possibly someone else would know about that?
That's one point.
Another is what background radiation we expect ourselves to be comfortable with over a thousand years, as some short time scenario.
A third should be the way radioactive dust builds up in concentrations through biological accumulation, if it works the same way DDT and other toxins does it's 10 X 10 X etc, accumulating for each part of the food chain. And when I die its journey starts all over again. What I mean is that it will be in circulation for a awfully long time.
A fourth should be at what level of radiation we need to start worrying.
"Guidelines on exposure to low doses of radiation have largely been based on estimated risks from models using data from Japanese survivors of the atomic bombs, where radiation exposures were brief and very much higher. As a result, there have been some long-standing uncertainties about the extrapolation of these risks to low radiation doses.
The researchers conclude that the size of the increased risk of childhood leukaemia with natural gamma-ray exposure is consistent with these models and supports their continued use in radiation protection. The results of the study contradict the idea that there are no adverse radiation effects, or might even be beneficial effects, at these very low doses and dose rates.
The Oxford University researchers, along with colleagues from the US National Cancer Institute, The University of Manchester and the Health Protection Agency, have published their findings in the journal Leukemia."
And then we have those Thorium reactors, I still don't know what to think there? We haven't really tried them yet, have we? And a lot of people seem to have serious doubts about their feasibility. Myself I would prefer to develop natural sources first, then again, I don't mean extracting methane now.
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It reminds me so much of proving that Global warming is a result of man.
So tricky to prove anything, unless you trust statistics?
A starter.
"We have measured 14C from nuclear bomb tests in genomic DNA of human myocardial cells, which allows retrospective birth dating (9-11). 14C levels in the atmosphere remained relatively stable until the Cold War when above ground nuclear bomb tests caused a dramatic increase (12, 13). Even though the detonations were conducted at a limited number of locations, the elevated 14C levels in the atmosphere rapidly equalized around the globe as 14CO2. After the Test-Ban Treaty in 1963, the 14C levels have dropped exponentially, not primarily because of radioactive decay (half-life 5730 years), but by diffusion from the atmosphere (14). Newly created atmospheric 14C reacts with oxygen to form 14CO2, which is incorporated by plants through photosynthesis. By eating plants, and animals that live off plants, the 14C concentration in the human body mirrors that in the atmosphere at any given point in time (15-18). Since DNA is stable after a cell has gone through its last cell division, the 14C level in DNA serves as a date mark for when a cell was born and can be used to retrospectively birth date cells in humans (9-11).Evidence for cardiomyocyte renewal in humans. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2991140/)
Used to have a chart defining how background radiation had raised since the forties, at least I seem to remember me having one? But I can't find it searching the net today? I would dearly like to find a chart for it.
This is another tidbit I found.
"Dr. Jay M. Gould
The illnesses affecting veterans of the Gulf War are all symptomatic of the same immune system deficiencies that have affected the atomic veterans deliberately exposed to the Nevada nuclear bomb tests, Native American miners exposed to uranium dust and indeed the many millions of victims who since the birth of the nuclear age in 1945 have inhaled or ingested radioactive fission products never before encountered in nature. When uranium and strontium-90 are ingested—especially because they have long half-lives—both have immediate and delayed adverse effects on the immune system's response capabilities. These effects were clearly indicated by classified animal experiments conducted by American nuclear scientists as far back as 1943.
The name for this condition is low-level radiation, which has little relation to background radiation from natural causes such as cosmic rays and radioactive minerals in the soil. Over the course of countless millennia, human immune defenses have developed the capacity to resist cancer from such natural sources, only to be overwhelmed in 1945 by the sudden introduction into a previously pristine atmosphere of huge amounts of man-made radiation.
The Department of Energy has recently admitted that in the haste to produce plutonium for the first atomic bombs, the Hanford nuclear weapons complex released 550,000 curies of radioactive iodine in 1945. In terms of picocuries, the unit now used to measure radioactivity in a liter of milk or water, this means that in 1945, one-hundred-fifty million Americans were unwittingly exposed to more than four billion picocuries per-capita of this lethal radionuclide, comparable to releases from the Chernobyl accident—the worst in human history.
This was followed by two decades of atmospheric bomb tests recently estimated by the Natural Resources Defense Council to be equivalent to exploding forty thousand Hiroshima bombs. The effects of this testing were revealed by a sudden epidemic increase in cancer among children five to nine years old. Since 1945, female breast cancer incidence has nearly tripled, and we have established that a significant number of the eighty million baby boomers born in the bomb-test years 1945 to 1965—literally the worst time in history—did in fact subsequently display evidences of the damage to hormonal and immune systems sustained in utero.
We can show that in the period 1945-1965 there had indeed been an anomalous forty percent increase in underweight live births, perfectly correlated with the rise in strontium-90 found in human bone and especially in baby teeth. In fact, it was the concern expressed by mothers, as in the Women's Strike for Peace movement that helped prod President John Kennedy and Premier Nikita Khrushchev to finally terminate above-ground nuclear tests in 1963. There was a brief period of improvement thereafter until fallout from civilian power reactors replaced bomb-test fallout, especially after the Three-Mile-Island and Chernobyl accidents of 1979 and 1986. Since 1979, the ominous rise in the percentage of underweight live births that first surfaced in 1945 has resumed." Nuclear Testing, Power Plants and a Breast Cancer Epidemic. (http://www.iacenter.org/depleted/gould.htm)
And this, a very solid collection of evidence too.
Low Level Radiation: Deadly … Or Harmless? (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/08/are-the-levels-of-fukushima-radiation-hitting-north-america-harmless.html)
That's why I'm so interested in low level background radiation. It stays for a long time, it get taken up by all sorts of biological processes, plants etc, as well as animal. And it keeps on after I die, it does not disappear from the 'circle of life' just because I did. If we want to ignore this, a natural consequence seems to become what we then define as a appropriate lifespan, for enjoying ones life, and possibly for keeping a 'modern' civilization?
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Hmm?
"American physician Brian Moench writes:
The idea that a threshold exists or there is a safe level of radiation for human exposure began unraveling in the 1950s when research showed one pelvic x-ray in a pregnant woman could double the rate of childhood leukemia in an exposed baby. Furthermore, the risk was ten times higher if it occurred in the first three months of pregnancy than near the end. This became the stepping-stone to the understanding that the timing of exposure was even more critical than the dose. The earlier in embryonic development it occurred, the greater the risk.
A new medical concept has emerged, increasingly supported by the latest research, called “fetal origins of disease,” that centers on the evidence that a multitude of chronic diseases, including cancer, often have their origins in the first few weeks after conception by environmental insults disturbing normal embryonic development. It is now established medical advice that pregnant women should avoid any exposure to x-rays, medicines or chemicals when not absolutely necessary, no matter how small the dose, especially in the first three months."
Seems I was wrong?
Questioning the idea of a x-ray doubling the cancer risk?
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Yes Alan, and I agree on that we, as a species, don't seem to worry overmuch for consequences, when developing and trying out new technology. We seem to have an innate trust in our ability to survive, combined with an innate ability to look the other way when evidence start to compile for something not being that smart, as we first thought.
speak for yourself! History suggests otherwise, and the adoption of the precautionary principle by the European Union almost killed medical research entirely.
That's one point.
Another is what background radiation we expect ourselves to be comfortable with over a thousand years, as some short time scenario.
We evolved and live on a radioactive planet. There is no evidence that background gamma doses up to 20 mSv/yr have any impact on life expectancy or birth defects, though I have my doubts about alpha radiation.
A third should be the way radioactive dust builds up in concentrations through biological accumulation, if it works the same way DDT and other toxins does it's 10 X 10 X etc, accumulating for each part of the food chain. And when I die its journey starts all over again. What I mean is that it will be in circulation for a awfully long time.
There is almost certainly concentration of plutonium in shellfish but no evidence of further concentration higher up the food chain. To achieve this you need to saturate the primary source and all predators need to be dependent on a single source of food. This was certainly the case with avian raptors and DDT but not with fish and shellfish in the Irish sea.
A fourth should be at what level of radiation we need to start worrying.
"Guidelines on exposure to low doses of radiation have largely been based on estimated risks from models using data from Japanese survivors of the atomic bombs, where radiation exposures were brief and very much higher. As a result, there have been some long-standing uncertainties about the extrapolation of these risks to low radiation doses.
No longer the case. We now have plenty of really accurate data on high beta and gamma doses from industrial accidents and on low doses from environmental dosimetry, which has replaced estimates and extrapolations from atomic bomb data. The embarrassment is that the "linear no threshold" model is, on the evidence, too pessimistic: it seems a little background radiation does you good, but we are required by law to worry at every level.
The researchers conclude that the size of the increased risk of childhood leukaemia with natural gamma-ray exposure is consistent with these models and supports their continued use in radiation protection. The results of the study contradict the idea that there are no adverse radiation effects, or might even be beneficial effects, at these very low doses and dose rates.
I'd like a reference to this work, which contradicts everything else I know about the subject. Two problems are (1) Alice Stewart's seminal work on childhood defects and maternal pelvic x-rays used a population of sick mothers and (2) it is very difficult to unravel any concomitant alpha dose from the relatively easily detectable gamma. I am increasingly convinced that the radiation weighting factor for alphas is a factor of 10 too low.
A new medical concept has emerged, increasingly supported by the latest research, called “fetal origins of disease,” that centers on the evidence that a multitude of chronic diseases, including cancer, often have their origins in the first few weeks after conception
Nothing new about that. Some 40 years ago it was shown that if you back-project the growth of some breast tumors to the size of a single cell, it was present in the fetus. Which is why we now look for (and find) genetic suceptibility to breast cancer.
It is now established medical advice that pregnant women should avoid any exposure to x-rays, medicines or chemicals...
Aha! the giveaway trademark of the lunatic fringe. What is "chemicals"? Or more to the point, what is not? Is folic acid a chemical, a medicine, or a useful and proven preventative for spina bifida? Is ascorbic acid a chemical, a medicine, or a vital constituent of fresh fruit?
The observation of an increase in underweight babies between 1945 and 1965 coincides with three sociological phenomena: a rapid increase in women smoking, the dieting fad, and the emergence of pre-and postnatal care that ensured the carriage to term of many fetuses that would have aborted previously.
Seems I was wrong?
Questioning the idea of a x-ray doubling the cancer risk?
Why would you x-ray a pregnant woman? Only if you thought she, or the fetus, was sick. So you are starting with an unrepresentative sample.
It's a complicated and fascinating subject!
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I am speaking for myself Alan :)
And it was you linking to the way we treated smog and its medical implications for the longest time. Think there is a famous American example of a town, from where people first started to argue that smog indeed was dangerous? Don't have it at hand but I read about it, somewhere?
As for discussing biological accumulations? I don't know there, but if it is contained in what you ingest, or inhale, and if different radioactive substances accumulate in different parts of ones prey, then they should accumulate inside my body too, assuming that they don't get flushed out the natural way. and they should accumulate I think? Just like all other organic/inorganic materials should be able too, if not flushed out or broken down into something else.
As for arguing that a little background radiation is harmless, or even 'healthy'? That's what the links above was all about, and they do not seem to agree with this line of thought? That's what statistics is about as I think, to lift forward those connection we otherwise might miss.
And then we have this.
"“Epigenetics” is a term integral to fetal origins of disease, referring to chemical attachments to genes that turn them on or off inappropriately and have impacts functionally similar to broken genetic bonds. Epigenetic changes can be caused by unimaginably small doses – parts per trillion – be it chemicals, air pollution, cigarette smoke or radiation. Furthermore, these epigenetic changes can occur within minutes after exposure and may be passed on to subsequent generations.
The Endocrine Society, 14,000 researchers and medical specialists in more than 100 countries, warned that “even infinitesimally low levels of exposure to endocrine-disrupting chemicals, indeed, any level of exposure at all, may cause endocrine or reproductive abnormalities, particularly if exposure occurs during a critical developmental window. Surprisingly, low doses may even exert more potent effects than higher doses.” If hormone-mimicking chemicals at any level are not safe for a fetus, then the concept is likely to be equally true of the even more intensely toxic radioactive elements drifting over from Japan, some of which may also act as endocrine disruptors."
Epigenetics is a quite interesting term, long being dismissed as cranky :), but coming back with new evidence for its validity. A strange field indeed. As for "It is now established medical advice that pregnant women should avoid any exposure to x-rays, medicines or chemicals..."
I was thinking that as this research results seem to have been established in the fifties, and that the radioactive doses we use today should differ by a magnitude, one might argue that what was valid then could be questioned today.
And the link you asked for is from the university of Oxford. http://www.ox.ac.uk/media/news_stories/2012/120612.html
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Thanks for the link. You need to read between the lines to discover that there is a statistical correlation but no claim for a causal link. My guess is that the real culprit is alpha radiation. It's a long story but it explains why there are childhood leukemia clusters at Sellafield, Burghfield, Capper Pass (not a nuclear site) and Dounreay, but not at other nuclear sites. Cornwall and South Yorkshire are listed as radon-affected areas and although the Scottish Borders are not the most radon-affected parts of Scotland, they are more densely populated than the worst bits.
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That one you need to explain Alan. Are you considering Alpha particles and radon instead of gamma? Also I read it as the researchers expect "that the association between natural gamma-rays and childhood leukaemia is likely to be causal." But it is a very tricky subject.
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Keep misspelling :)
Ah well.
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Here are my thoughts. Not mainstream, but to my mind suffienctly logical to deserve consideration.
Radon is an alpha-emitter. Alpha radiation has a very short range in tissue - it doesn't penetrate the epidermis and low-energy alphas don't even cross two human cells. But because the alpha particle is massive and charged, it does an enormous amount of damage in a short distance.
Sellafield, Burghfield and Dounreay are the only UK sites that handle quantities of plutonium as bare metal. Capper Pass is a lead smelting plant that releases polonium into the environment.
We know that plutonium is preferentially absorbed into the femur of fetal mice, and produces leukemic babies. The problem with alpha emitters is that they are very difficult to detect unless you know what you are looking for, but in the case of nuclear fuel reprocessing they are always associated with beta and gamma emitters which are easy to detect. So it came as no surprise to discover a statistical link between paternal gamma dose and childhood leukemia among the Sellafield population. Regrettably, trade unions reached a financial compensation settlement based on measured paternal gamma dose, back in the 1980s, and I think the real culprit, men carrying Pu dust home on their bodies and literally impregnating their wives with it, was swept under the carpet.
Epidemiology shows a higher incidence of birth defects in Kerala than would be expected if the natural background radiation was gamma, but it is a region with a high concentration of thorium and therefore the anomalous background is alpha. Like Pu and Po, but less so, Th is chemically reactive and can be absorbed into the body in food, by inhalation, or through sexual penetration.
Radon is an inert gas, so tends to be inhaled and exhaled without entering the bloodstream. However if it is inhaled with active smoke (e.g. fresh tobacco smoke) I think the decay products which include alpha-emitting isotopes of polonium, bismuth and lead, may well diffuse into the blood. So I'd be interested to see the smoking history of mothers with leukemic babies in radon-affected areas of the UK.
I think the subject deserves rather closer examination.
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Interesting. Guess I will have to read up on it Alan. And you definitely have a point with it behaving differently if "inhaled, swallowed, or absorbed through open wounds."
As well as "However, once alpha particle enters the human body, its characteristic of depositing its energy over a short range becomes crucial. Under this condition, the alpha particle is surrounded by the living tissue of human body and the harm arising from such internal radiation exposure2 is mostly confined to the small area of tissue surrounding the alpha particle source. If the alpha particles accumulate in a certain organ, nearly all the energy released by the particles will be imparted to that organ rather than distributed to a larger area around it. Hence the damages to the cells of that organ by alpha particles are substantially larger....
For example, iodine (beta particle and gamma ray emitter) and strontium (beta emitter) tend to accumulate in the thyroid gland and the bone respectively whereas plutonium (alpha emitter) mainly accumulates in the bone and the liver. " From http://www.hko.gov.hk/education/edu02rga/radiation/radiation_07-e.htm
The interesting part is where they accumulate in a human body I suspect? As that should give us statistical clues to what particles we are looking at, studying the types of cancer we find over time.
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Very much the point. You also need to consider the damage tolerance of the accumulating organ: thyroid tumors are common but usually curable whereas pancreatic tumors are very difficult to treat . The affinity of plutonium for bone is I am sure the reason for childhood leukemia clusters.
Remember it's not the alpha particles that accumulate, but particles of alpha-emitting nuclides. So although one alpha may only damage one or two cells, a resident microgram of plutonium dissolved and diffused through an organ can do a hell of a lot of damage.
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Took a look at Polonium, a very potent radioactive 'poison', popular in a lot of shady circles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Litvinenko). It releases Alpha particles, "The 138-day half-life of 210Po is short, so the element is very radioactive. While it has a melting point of 254°C, it is so radioactive that if you made 1g piece of 210Po it would create so much heat it would melt itself. The liquid would appear to glow blue due to the interaction of the alpha particles with the surrounding air." Now also implicated in Yasser Arafat's death.
Weird planet, isn't it? Disinformation, and killing of things, that seems to be what we excel at. Makes me wonder how we ever succeeded building the technology we actually have, spin-of's from wars, or preparing for them, maybe?:) Nah, myself I think it comes from that stupidly useless theory about Earth, being our 'planet of unlimited resources'. And yeah, I think we've wasted such a lot of those, coming to this point. Also, we don't like the idea of 'renewables ', do we? It shots down any idea of a market economy/society in where we all can become 'millionaires', if we just try hard enough. A greed, or profit, based market economy allows for a lot of things as long as we can relocate, as soon as the resources dry out where we are, but it must on a planet of limited resources, logically end up in a place from where we have nowhere to move at all.
Because that is the overall trend, isn't it? You don't make a profit anymore?
Relocate, and try again..
Anyway, guess it's my age talking here :) Not as full of optimism as I used to be.
"The alpha particle is a helium nucleus (two protons and two neutrons). This relatively large particle will not travel far through air and is stopped by a piece of paper. However, it pulls electrons out of other elements (ionising them). In turn, the ionised elements are highly reactive and able to undergo reactions that would not normally occur in a human body.
So unlike the image of radiation damaging DNA and causing cancer, alpha particles act more like a normal poison, but damaging many different biological systems rather than targeting one type of molecule.
The effects of polonium poisoning are effectively those of acute radiation poisoning. These occur within one day of exposure to a large dose of ionising radiation. The effects are all based on damage occurring to the body’s fast-growing cells:
bone marrow – a drop in number of blood cells causing tiredness
gastrointestial cells – causing vomiting and nausea
follicular cells – causing hair loss. "
On the other hand, you need a nuclear plant I think, for getting it. It's not something you can collect naturally.
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In reverse order
Polonium is a natural radionuclide, discovered by the Curies. It is emitted during the smelting of lead. However it is pretty rare and most of the stuff around today is manufactured in reactors or extracted from nuclear waste. It is used industrially to ionise air in places like paint sprayers and flour mills, reducing the risk of static discharge explosion and improving the spray distribution.
In fact ionising radiation doesn't "target" DNA. What happens for the most part is that it ionises the water in a cell, and the free radicals thus generated interfere with the hydrogen bonding of mitotic DNA, causing mutation or death of the daughter cells.
There is indeed a certain "normal " level of such mutation.
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Yep, you're right, Curie was the one finding polonium residing inside pitchblende. "A mineral consisting of uranium oxide and trace amounts of radium and thorium and polonium and lead and helium; uraninite in massive form is called pitchblende which is the chief uranium ore." http://www.aip.org/history/curie/resbr2.htm
The point here might be how much 'natural radiation' from polonium exist?
"it took Marie over three years to isolate one tenth of a gram of pure radium chloride. For reasons that would not be fully understood until the concept of radioactive decay was developed, Marie never succeeded in isolating polonium, which has a half-life of only 138 days."
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The point here might be how much 'natural radiation' from polonium exist?
Enough to produce a childhood leukemia cluster downwind of the Capper Pass lead smelter.
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You got any good links Alan?
Found http://www.wiseinternational.org/node/402
What I'm unsure of there is exactly what they mean with.
"The plant operated not just as Europe's only primary tin smelter, but as the recycler of a devil's cauldron of heavy metals and radioactive wastes, including radium and uranium."
So how much tin did they produce? And it was from the tin you got it?
So what do they mean by 'recycling'?
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Bit of a jumbled sentence, but AFAIK they extracted and possibly recycled lead. Lead is the end product of several radioactive decay chains so whilst recycled lead probably doesn't contain a lot of polonium or uranium, the primary ore almost certainly does. Capper Pass never, to my knowledge, recycled anything classified as radioactive waste, but there have to be permissible exemption limits for radionuclides in ores and scrap metal because everything contains some traces of natural radionuclides even if it was manufactured before 1945.
Extracting tin from Cornish cassiterite (and probably from other sources) will also generate a fair bit of polonium and other alpha emitters as the surrounding rock is full of radionuclides.
I guess the problem with Capper Pass was its size and location not only in geography but also in time. Primitive smelters tended to be small, close to coalfields, and operated in the days when about 1 in 4 children died before their 10th birthday from pretty well every imaginable cause, so a bit of leukemia would hardly be noticed among the general incidence of consumption, starvation, hypothermia, cholera and congenital syphilis that characterised the good old days of Victorian England. Getting rid of all these irritants, then building a whacking great central smelter upwind of a conurbation, just changed the epidemiologcal perspective so you could spot the leukemias among the devastation.
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Thanks :)
sometimes those short stories confuse more than they enlighten.
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Here's an update on fukushima.
http://nuclear-news.net/category/fukushima-2014/
http://rt.com/trends/fukushima-nuclear-disaster/
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/07/07/leak-at-fukushima-nuclear-plant-threatens-dangerous-meltdown/
and yet another typhoon. http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/07/supertyphoon-neoguri-japan-nuclear-plants-fukushima
Want to live next to it?
I don't.
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This one might be of interest.
UNSCEAR 2013 report systematically underestimates
health impact of Fukushima catastrophe. (http://www.fukushima-disaster.de/fileadmin/user_upload/pdf/english/UNSCEAR_Pressemitteilung_Englisch.pdf)
I suppose there always will be a cost to new technologies. In unfortunate times human lives. We've had smog, for the longest time argued to have nothing to with the industries creating it, and even if it had, of no specific danger. Coal burning Countries as China find it to be a imminent problem today. To me the question seems to become one of where the cost in lives, and naturally living standards, will force a policy change. Because that is what I see, reading 'between the lines'.
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Thought this might be of interest. I lost my chart over the natural background radiation years ago :) and I've missed it. Found this today, although, it's no pie chart..
"
- 1950’s, average background radiation went > 1 mSv (max. public limit for radiation exposure)
- 1960's, Due to 2,400 open air atomic bomb tests radioactive fallout, > 2 mSv
https://www.health.ny.gov/publications/4402/
- 1994, average background radiation, Chernobyl, TMI, other accidents and dumping; > 3 mSv
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/1994/safe-0105.html
- 2002, average background radiation, more accidents, spills, ocean/air dumping > 3.6 mSv
http://www.doh.wa.gov/portals/1/Documents/Pubs/320-063_bkvsman_fs.pdf
- 2014, average background radiation, Fukushima mega disaster and more dumping > 6.2 mSv (max. limit for public has been raised 600%)
…the average annual radiation dose per person in the U.S. is 620 millirem (6.2 milliSieverts)."
http://www.epa.gov/radiation/understand/perspective.html
PEAK PACIFIC OCEAN RADIATION READINGS HISTORICALLY
What would have made the background radiation jump up like that between 2002 and 2014? Here is one possibility;
Event Peak Ocean Radiation Reading In Bq/m³
2,400 Nuclear weapons testing peak - 100 Bq/m³
Chernobyl caused a peak reading of - 1,000 Bq/m³
Fukushima caused a peak reading of - 180,000,000 Bq/m³ "
http://agreenroad.blogspot.se/2014/03/background-radiation-has-increased-600.html
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Always read the small print!
Your first quoted paper gives 3 mSv/yr from all natural sources in the USA.
The same figure appears in the second paper, which does not mention Chernobyl at all.
The third paper includes 20% medical radiation as "background" - not what the rest of the world considers to be background at all, and it accounts for almost all of the additional 60 microsievert.
The jump between the third (1994) and fourth (2014) paper is entirely accounted for by medical radiation, which now delivers "on average" 50% of the annual dose to a US citizen.
However as nearly all diagnostic radiation dose is delivered in the last year of life (we don't usually x-ray healthy people) the notion of "average" is very distorted by its inclusion. The sievert, being weighted by radiation and organ factors, is a measure of risk rather than dose, so when dealing particularly with interventional procedures it has to be offset by the risk of not using radiation, and the use of population averaging is inappropriate. If I need a pacemaker, or even more serious, radiotherapy, my radiation dose will be enormous but I will survive another 20 years and you will receive no dose or benefit from the procedure. And I wouldn't want the pacemaker leads to be inserted by knife and fork surgery if there was a decent x-ray machine available.
More germane to your argument: The contribution of fallout and all other manmade nonmedical sources remained at or below 1% of the total throughout the period of reporting.
Sadly, your final reference is just another example of "green = scaremongering bullshit". What a shame. I'm sure there are plenty of well-motivated environmentalists, but the business seems to be run by crooks and liars - these authors certainly don't claim to be ignorant.
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Hmm, have to read the sources there Alan, to see. I was surprised too actually, but I linked it all the same. Wish I had the chart I used to have, to compare between.
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Yeah, he seems questionable. That one is a bad reference, I should have checked his sources before linking it. Still, as i have this idea of leaving what I once written 'as is', I'll let it be, to my utter shame :) with this addendum agreeing with you.
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But I still need to find a chart, including man made radiation, defining the increase, preferably up to date. What I'm primary wondering about is the danger related related to fetuses, what seems to be called "fetal origins of disease" according to physician Brian Moench. http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/08/are-the-levels-of-fukushima-radiation-hitting-north-america-harmless.html
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- 1950’s, average background radiation went > 1 mSv (max. public limit for radiation exposure)
- 1960's, Due to 2,400 open air atomic bomb tests radioactive fallout, > 2 mSv
- 1994, average background radiation, Chernobyl, TMI, other accidents and dumping; > 3 mSv
- 2002, average background radiation, more accidents, spills, ocean/air dumping > 3.6 mSv
- 2014, average background radiation, Fukushima mega disaster and more dumping > 6.2 mSv (max. limit for public has been raised 600%)
…the average annual radiation dose per person in the U.S. is 620 millirem (6.2 milliSieverts)."
I think it is time to start studying Radiation Hormesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_hormesis)
I suppose this is a good point. One should just consider the local effects of individual nuclear reactors, but consider their global impacts too.
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Yes Clifford. Some types of radiation clings for a very long time, and if it is correct, then how we decide today will have a impact on, I don't know how many generations? But I dearly would like to know. I would hate to live in a high tech society where we for example find the average IQ (whatever that now 'is':) getting lowered, as I've seen described as one possible outcome of radiation on fetus. It doesn't sound as a good proposition to me. Actually I think that one has been lying dormant for me, until I saw that flawed presentation. That made it much more current, sort of.
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Seems I still can't find one? 1987 is the only (pie) chart I find, and that one has apparently been cited in publications since then? I got to admit to finding that slightly weird? As if we stopped measuring the natural background radiation, deciding that 1987 should be the year we hereafter would use as the correct reference? In it the 'man made contribution' is defined as 18 % though. And in it it seems as if 79 % of that percentage is defined as belonging to x-rays of different kinds. It's an American survey though, and as such reflect the use of medical imagining done there.
So, does anyone on TNS have a link, measuring the natural background radiation on a annual basis? Because that is what I would like to see. Not a link to specific countries use of x rays, absorbed by a human in some medical facility, but to the type of radiation we meet naturally, without such imagining. It should be possible to find?
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Depression of fetal IQ is a known effect of very large doses of radiation delivered between the 8th and 15th week of conception. The effect is possibly as high as 0.04% per milligray, so the effect might be detectable if the fetal dose exceeds about 200 mGy during the critical period. A human fetus receives about 1 mGy from natural radiation from its mother's bones, or from a maternal lumbar spine x-ray series, so we don't get too excited about such things, but CT, radionuclide imaging, or radiotherapy, do require very careful consideration in pregnancy.
There is no point on measuring natural background on an annual basis as it is entirely predictable, being the natural consequence of events that have been going on for billions of years. The local variation is between 1.5 mSv/yr in parts of Japan and over 40 mSv/yr in Kerala and Iran, but the reference level is taken as the US population average of 3 mSv/yr, because we have good historical epidemiology for that population. We can estimate the manmade addition quite accurately and this is done routinely in areas of known or potential contamination, but as with medical radiation, the notion of an average is meaningless.
The real threat to a fetus is, I think, alpha emitters. Plutonium and to a lesser extent (natural) thorium have a nasty habit of attaching to the blood-forming organs and inducing leukemia. Problem is that these particular stinkers are very hard to detect.
Bit short of time right now but I'll happily come back to the subject in a couple of days - I'm off to measure medical radiation in various places around the UK for the next two days!
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Clifford: please read my reply # 271 to see why the figures are bullshit.
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Ahhh...
I see the difference between "exposure" and "background", and confusion between the two.
So, one might consider the number of miles an average person flew in airplanes pre 1940's up till today. The more miles and higher altitudes, the greater the cosmic radiation exposure.
As I understand it, the power of the average medical X-Ray has been decreasing a lot over time, although perhaps it is being offset by ordering more of them. But, as you point out, X-Rays aren't ordered just in the last year, but more in the older patients than the younger ones (except for dental X-Rays).
One could probably get a good estimate of background radiation by observing the steel in ships (or even cars) built in the early 1900's, WWII, then in each decade since then, especially if one could control for the iron/steel source.
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(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-bKgUkUop04Q%2FUkleS9IISXI%2FAAAAAAAAEoo%2FnLXVZW-Xgfo%2Fs1600%2FAPictureWorthAThousandWords.gif&hash=80aecfa460c7680bc191d1240986a6e8)
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One could probably get a good estimate of background radiation by observing the steel in ships (or even cars) built in the early 1900's, WWII, then in each decade since then, especially if one could control for the iron/steel source.
Doesn't really define "background"!
There are two aspects to consider: natural and man-made (or man-enhanced). The natural background comes from rocks, natural radioactive gases, and cosmic radiation. These are hugely variable, from (reportedly, though I don't believe it) 1.5 mSv/yr in parts of Japan to around 100 mSv/yr in areas of thorium sand. The most useful figure is a population-weighted average, and it happens that most areas where the background exceeds 5 mSv/yr are quite thinly populated. A convenient and well-researched baseline is the US population-weighted average of 3 mSv/yr.
The man-made addition to background comes from nuclear weapon fallout (principally strontium), reactor incidents (iodine and caesium) and medical waste (mostly iodine). The man-enhanced addition is from natural radionuclides released into the air by industrial processes such as smelting and burning of fossil fuels. The sum is generally less than 0.1% of the baseline and varies very little from year to year, though there is some concern about the increase in medical waste.
The radionuclide content of steel is measured routinely but it is very variable (pre-1945 naval gun barrels are worth a fortune to the scientific instrument industry) and doesn't contribute to any sensible notion of background unless you live in a ship. Other building materials generally contribute more to your personal dose, but the ventilation of the building (to remove radon) is usually far more important.
As I understand it, the power of the average medical X-Ray has been decreasing a lot over time,
Depends on your definition of "average"! The required dose for a given plane radiograph decreased very rapidly in the first 20 years of radiography thanks to Edison's invention of the "intensifying screen", then again by a factor of 2 -4 in the 1980s with the introduction of rare-earth screens, but the delivered dose has actually crept upwards since 2000 as modern digital imaging systems produce a "cleaner" image if you increase the dose (unlike film, which saturates if overexposed).
Meanwhile the introduction of CT has pretty much doubled the population dose from diagnostic x-radiation in the last 30 years. For every advance we make in detector sensitivity, there is an increase in demand for image quality and quantity.
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Alan, you're a good man. It's a pleasure reading you, as far as I'm concerned, then again :) It won't guarantee me agreeing. but it won't stop me from enjoying your thoughts, and learn something new.
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The real stuff, if there now is any real stuff. Is not about individuals, but about species. We seem to have some statistical balance relative our life expectancy as a whole. And no, I don't know by which mathematical formula I could 'prove' that thesis. But I seem to see it, never the less. It exist, with or without me.
We live by it, but I don't think we count in millenniums.