Naked Science Forum
Life Sciences => Physiology & Medicine => Topic started by: Claire on 04/06/2003 14:35:53
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I've just been listening to the news and the the British government is thinking of introducing fines and penalties for people who need medical treatment as a consequence of them being smokers or obese. This is because they cost tax payers so much money and waste doctors' time. In principle I think it's a good idea.[;)]
People who smoke are taking an active decision to do so, so I don't think they have any excuse, although apparently some people are genetically obese and can't do anything about it. I reckon that the possibility of a fine or refusal of medical treatment are the only things that would give my dad an incentive to give up smoking.
What does everyone else think about it? [?] Is it right or wrong?
Claire
p.s. thank you for the French sweeties and champers Exodus. [;)] [:X]
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Yeah I agree with you Claire. Smokers are all dying very slowly [xx(]and it's all down to themselves. In school and college, the effects of smoking in human body have been taught to the students. But a lot of them still end up smoking. Just can't understand what they are thinking![?]. Like you said this policy might be an effective way to encourage people to give up smoking.
As for the genetic obese poeple, I feel sorry for them[:(]
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Yeah, I'm all for it. Make fatties lose some weight before going anywhere near them with a scalpel.
Smokers - difficult one. These guys genuinely pay for their nhs bill in the taxes they pay on their fags. Sure, once they need treatment, make em stop. But until then, keep fleecing them with heavy taxes whilst making them feel like lepers by insisting they stand outside the office door in the street to smoke !
Fat people though - just a reflection of poor self control. Too many chips, pies, burgers, sausages and ice-cream. Probably.
Pat
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Pies are nice though...
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Why couldn't smokers take nicotine in via other methods, because it's the nicotine that makes them addicted and tar which kills them. If you only take in nicotine, the smokers PROBABLY won't die, also other non-smoker won't have to be passive smokers
Some people absorb fat better then others, some aren't, for instant I don't absorb fat very well at all (I've stayed quite thin ever since I was born). But I agree with you pat, there are more people who can't control themselves rather than the people who are fat because of their genes.
Tom
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Tom, nicotine is also involved in the hardening of arteries which can lead heart problems. The biggest killer in smoking is actually heart disease rather than anything lung related.
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Oh really, thanks Richard for clearing that bit. I used to think that nicotine is ONLY a drug that make smokers addicted to cigarattes.
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I'm an ex-smoker and an ex-fatty, so I'll take a turn on the soap box. I try hard not to be judgmental because we all have our weaknesses, and you never know what has happened in another person's life that influences their behavior. Humans are motivated by two things; pleasure and pain. Since the pleasure of smoking/eating seems to outweigh the pain of harming your body/being fat perhaps the rationale here is to increase the level of pain so that it becomes a more powerful motivator. But really, the bottom line is choice. If it helps people make better choices for themselves (and others), then I'm all for it[8D].
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Exodus, I think you are right. Thinking back more people have died on heart dieases rather than emphysema.
Tom
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more often than not, smokers are less active than non smokers which means they lead less of a healthy lifestyle, this adds to the problems associated with heart/artery problems.
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Donnah - how did you give up and shed the excess weight ?
I know of an attempt by the Canadian government (much be over 10 yeara ago now) to disuade people from smoking by doubling the price of a packet of cigarettes. They were shocked to find that the social group who responded the best (and cut down the most) were the members of social class 1 (the richest members of society most able to afford to smoke). amongst the nations poorest levels of smoking remained pretty much the same with them sacrificing healthier aspects of their lifestyles (such as fresh vegetables) to fund their (now much more expensive) smoking habits !
Chris
"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
- Groucho Marx
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Shocking! Can't imagine what their lives are like.
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Well, that's how they became rich in the first place ....
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It makes perfect sense. Life is full of choices, and our lifestyles depend largely on the choices we make. People (in privileged countries) who are poor are usually poor by making a series of bad choices, which stems from some internal belief about themselves and what they deserve in life. Continuing to smoke at the price of health is just one more bad choice. We may be handicapped by behaviours learned from our parents, if they have made poor choices throughout their lives. How do you know that there is something better out there unless you experience it? And how do you experience it when all you have ever known is mental, emotional, and physical poverty?
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Chris, I was fat for two years, then went bone thin as part of the mercury poisoning. The fat came on when the illness got bad, but the emaciation was worse, healthwise, and that's when I almost died.
What works now to keep my weight balanced is a diet of about 20 percent protein and lots of fresh fruit, veggies, and reverse osmosis water. I don't eat sweets, chocolate, anything with yeast or artificial additives in it, and don't drink alcohol. For treats I buy things like raspberries or cashews. They are expensive, but no more so than alcohol, and a much better choice. But I'm not beyond having the occasional (maybe once a week) ice cream, pop, or potato chips (crisps as you say).
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Mercury poisoning?! How did that happen?
What is reverse osmosis water?
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quote:
Originally posted by Quantumcat
What is reverse osmosis water?
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Reverse osmosis is a way of purifying water, I think. But I don't know how that work.
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Erin, if you read ->Medicine ->Mercury it tells how I was exposed to mercury.
Reverse osmosis passes water through a very fine membrane to filter out metals and other impurities.
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Ah, right, okay. I remember the word "osmosis" from year 8 chemistry, but couldn't remember what it was. something to do with salt concentrations was all I could remember. But anyway, sorry to hear about the poisoning.
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You should come across the word osmosis a lot more if you do biology. Its definition is the movement of water from an area of high water potential to an area of lower water potential across a selectively permeable membrane.
I suppose that reverse osmosis is the movement of water against the water potential gradient. This is why a lot of electricity is needed to power a reverse osmosis machine.
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Can't you purify water with evaporation?
Tom
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I think what you mean is distillation. Of course you can but the process is slow. You'd have wait for a long time to get few drops of water.
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This is going way off topic...
Resident Tour Operator - The Naked Scientists
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Who cares? We never stay on a topic anyway. Just think how we can start by talking about how people found out about the forum and some how relate it to Angel Delight then Tom Thumb and finally end up with quantum mechanics[:D]
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Haha. Yes, you're right, we definitely don't seem to stay on topic very often.
I made a distillation machine once by myself, I still have it, I'm very proud of it[:D]
The words "reverse osmosis" sound almost like the brain-washing fake-science that healthfood companies often use. But I guess not :-p
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Well I suppose you're right, many health-food companies have said tonnes and tonnes of crap they claim their products are good for you but actually they aren't.
Tom
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Yeah ... they trick the poor science-ignorant people into thinking the product will help them ... when in fact they're wasting their money :(
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My Food Technology teacher said, usually the manufacturers make their product by cutting down the fat content, I thought mmm no bad at least they are doing something right. Fat does make food taste better whether it's texture or flavour wise. But she then said because of this they put more sugar in and other preservatives and additives.
They don't use any substitudes of fat or fat that contains less saturates. Putting all that crap to balance the energy given and taste is outrageous.
Next time you buy any low-fat food that have special claims. Read the label carefully.
Tom
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Just eat plenty of fresh fruit and vegetables instead of ready meals and packaged stuff and instead of snacking on chocolate. Replace butter with a low fat olive spread and don't eat too many Carbs, Oh and most importantly, exercise, people these days just don't seem to exercise am more, i love going to the gym! If people did these things they would notice themselves losing weight in no time. Ready meals contain frightening levels of sugar and salt. The sugar can lead to late onset diabetes while salt can cause a raise in blood pressure!
CuSO4 = the only reason i commented on the topic subject is--> I was actually thinking of other people who might come to the site to find out about these really interesting things you are discussing. It will be easier for them to find out about reverse osmosis for example if you were to start a new thread about it... I wasn't complaining, its a free forum, but it just makes navigating it easier if new topics are started.
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