Naked Science Forum
Non Life Sciences => Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology => Topic started by: thebrain13 on 16/07/2006 01:05:07
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I've identified a pattern between four terms. Mass, Time, distance, and ( ). Does anybody think they know what goes here?
these three are all affected by relative motion by the exact same amounts, and I propose a fourth should too.
Hints
None of these things mean anything without the fourth.
The fourth means nothing without those three.
Maybe its responsible for the cause, at least how I see it for redshifts. Read my post on redshifts if you want.
Its not energy.
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You've got my attention, Brain - so what IS the missing term?
The only guess I can think of is electric charge. But it's too late for me to be able to work out if that's a sensible suggestion or not. (Come to think of it, I don't have the knowledge to be able to work that out even if I was awake![:(])
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Im not telling unless someone is willing to guess.
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Gravity?
Tomorrow lies outside our universe without it there would be no tomorrow.
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Direction?
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Ill give another hint. Mass exists without gravity, time exists without gravity, distance exists without gravity.
Mass exists without direction, time exists without direction, distance exists without direction.
But mass, time, and distance dont exist without this( ) proving their inevitable relation. And neither one of those three terms mean anything without each other.
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Ok how about Inertia?
Tomorrow lies outside our universe without it there would be no tomorrow.
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not inertia
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I think I know but I won't spoil it for others just yet.
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err "Mass exists without gravity" how
Michael
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Mass is a measure of an objects inertia. gravity doesnt change that. The titanic takes a lot of energy to get moving even in empty space in the absence of gravity. It has a lot of inertia
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Stop bickering and get back to the point. To be precise, newtons are a measure of force. and weight is the force on a mass (which is a measure of the inertia of an object) in a gravitational field.
Also under extreme conditions it IS possible for a gravitational field to create mass. That is basically what the Hawking radiation from a black hole is all about. normal sized black holes are only likely to emit massles electromagnetic radiation but as they evaportate, black holes will emit massive particles.
There is even some work on the possibility of high energy collisions creating mini black holes which could emit Higgs bosons (generally considered to be the source of inertia).
now lets get back to the original question. I must admit that I cannot immediately think of a suitable candidate for another "dimension" other than Mass Length and Time because as far as I know everything can be expressed in terms of these three fundamentals. In fact one ancient lecturer when I was at university suggested that we could go even further and get rid of mass by bringing the gravitational constant into the equation and expressing absolutely everything purely in terms of length and time.
Learn, create, test and tell
evolution rules in all things
God says so!
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TO THE BRAIN
Hmmm i will go through it and have a look and remove some of them if you promise to reveal at some stage the answer to your question even if nobody comes up with an answer to your question.
note
Even though i feel their is an inaccuracy or an Ambiguous statement in the brains 3rd entry,this thread has had some of its posts removed on the request of the brain in order to keep it on topic.
Therefore i apologize to everyone who has had anything removed or edited in order to grant the brains request.
PS. This is not something which i would normally consider doing however on this occasion i will do so in order to keep it on topic due to my wish to see the answer to the question posed by the brain.
Michael
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Thank you ukmicky, I will post my thoughts soon, just let monkey guess first.
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Gravity?
Tomorrow lies outside our universe without it there would be no tomorrow.
-
Direction?
-
Ill give another hint. Mass exists without gravity, time exists without gravity, distance exists without gravity.
Mass exists without direction, time exists without direction, distance exists without direction.
But mass, time, and distance dont exist without this( ) proving their inevitable relation. And neither one of those three terms mean anything without each other.
-
Ok how about Inertia?
Tomorrow lies outside our universe without it there would be no tomorrow.
-
not inertia
-
I think I know but I won't spoil it for others just yet.
-
err "Mass exists without gravity" how
Michael
-
Mass is a measure of an objects inertia. gravity doesnt change that. The titanic takes a lot of energy to get moving even in empty space in the absence of gravity. It has a lot of inertia
-
Stop bickering and get back to the point. To be precise, newtons are a measure of force. and weight is the force on a mass (which is a measure of the inertia of an object) in a gravitational field.
Also under extreme conditions it IS possible for a gravitational field to create mass. That is basically what the Hawking radiation from a black hole is all about. normal sized black holes are only likely to emit massles electromagnetic radiation but as they evaportate, black holes will emit massive particles.
There is even some work on the possibility of high energy collisions creating mini black holes which could emit Higgs bosons (generally considered to be the source of inertia).
now lets get back to the original question. I must admit that I cannot immediately think of a suitable candidate for another "dimension" other than Mass Length and Time because as far as I know everything can be expressed in terms of these three fundamentals. In fact one ancient lecturer when I was at university suggested that we could go even further and get rid of mass by bringing the gravitational constant into the equation and expressing absolutely everything purely in terms of length and time.
Learn, create, test and tell
evolution rules in all things
God says so!
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TO THE BRAIN
Hmmm i will go through it and have a look and remove some of them if you promise to reveal at some stage the answer to your question even if nobody comes up with an answer to your question.
note
Even though i feel their is an inaccuracy or an Ambiguous statement in the brains 3rd entry,this thread has had some of its posts removed on the request of the brain in order to keep it on topic.
Therefore i apologize to everyone who has had anything removed or edited in order to grant the brains request.
PS. This is not something which i would normally consider doing however on this occasion i will do so in order to keep it on topic due to my wish to see the answer to the question posed by the brain.
Michael
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Thank you ukmicky, I will post my thoughts soon, just let monkey guess first.
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If you really must have an answer. The only thing that I can think that fits your requirements is space itself.
Learn, create, test and tell
evolution rules in all things
God says so!
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Maybe it's Awareness?
If anything (mass, space, time, energy) existed without Awareness, who could prove it would exist? No one.
You can get rid of everything, but the last thing you are left with is...Awareness.
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Is an answer going to be provided to this question by thebrain13?
Steven
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quote:
Originally posted by Mjhavok
Is an answer going to be provided to this question by thebrain13?
Steven
Yes.
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Is the answer "Motion"
Steven
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
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Motion is close, energy is close but not quite.
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Is the answer Angular momentum.
Tomorrow lies outside our universe without it there would be no tomorrow.
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Is the answer Inertia?
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not angular momentum or inertia
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Space?
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I don't know but is it speed or force?
Don't make me angry, I have advanced "Green Technology".
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Is it c, the speed of light?
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Artistic got it, the answer is force. A couple days ago I gave a very lengthy description of why, but I accidentally erased it, now im procrastinating rewriting it. I'll answer thoroughly eventually, with the proper explanation.
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I'd be interested to see your answer, Brain. Personally I can't see why Force is the only possible answer - it's just a quantity derived from the other 3 dimensions (mass, length & time - which is also true of energy, or charge, or momentum, ...)
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I always thought that all units could be defined in terms of LMT raised to various powers, nothing else is needed or exists
syhprum
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I'd be interested to see your answer, Brain. Personally I can't see why Force is the only possible answer - it's just a quantity derived from the other 3 dimensions (mass, length & time - which is also true of energy, or charge, or momentum, ...)
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I always thought that all units could be defined in terms of LMT raised to various powers, nothing else is needed or exists
syhprum
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I'd be interested to see your answer, Brain. Personally I can't see why Force is the only possible answer - it's just a quantity derived from the other 3 dimensions (mass, length & time - which is also true of energy, or charge, or momentum, ...)
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I always thought that all units could be defined in terms of LMT raised to various powers, nothing else is needed or exists
syhprum