Naked Science Forum
Non Life Sciences => Chemistry => Topic started by: AllenG on 23/06/2012 21:23:50
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I'm an alternative process photographer. Meaning I print my photographs with 19th century formulas.
I get great satisfaction from mixing my own forumlas. I also like to tie my images directly to where they were originally captured. For instance, the image below was shot on the bank of the Arno river. After I captured the image I went went down to the Arno and collected a gallon of water which I then filtered and used in the development process. I want to take this a step further. I live on the coast of Georgia (state not country) and there is a goodly amount of iron in the sand. I can collect it with a strong magnet.
Can one make ferric ammonium citrate in a home lab? And if so how would I go about accomplishing it?
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.awcg.com%2FImages%2FVanDykes%2FArno.jpg&hash=ed49479178fd9d435f08d22a66e63bdc)
This is a VanDyke print. The formula I used was a 9% solution of ferric ammonium citrate, 1.5% tartaric acid, and 4% silver nitrate. The water was distilled from the Arno, and then the print was developed in filtered Arno water.
The above is really simple to do. Dissolve the required chemicals (which can be purchased from many photography supply houses) to the desired solutions in distilled water, and then mix the three solutions together and one has VanDyke sensitizer.
If I can make my own F.A.C. one of the things I plan on doing is collecting micrometeorites and creating an image that is at least in part made of extraterrestrial iron. My house has a few rain barrels and they always have a bit of sediment collected in the bottom, mostly bits of leaf and bird dirt, but if one runs a rare earth magnet through it, it always comes up with some ferric material. Part of that material has to be micrometeorites.
Thank you for reading through my hair brained idea,
--Allen
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I think I have a recipe somewhere. I will try to remember where and dig it out for you.
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I couldn't thank you more.
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Hi Allen, really like your idea of using meteorite iron in the photographic process. I've got meteorite saw dust from cutting brenham pallasites, it is roughly a 50:50 mix of the metal (~90% iron and 10% nickel) and the magnesium/iron/nickel silicates. The saw dust is in mineral oil. I do not know how to convert the metal to the ammonium citrate. But if you can use some of this material i'd be happy to supply it for your project. don
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Hi Allen, really like your idea of using meteorite iron in the photographic process. I've got meteorite saw dust from cutting brenham pallasites, it is roughly a 50:50 mix of the metal (~90% iron and 10% nickel) and the magnesium/iron/nickel silicates. The saw dust is in mineral oil. I do not know how to convert the metal to the ammonium citrate. But if you can use some of this material i'd be happy to supply it for your project. don
Don,
That is astoundingly generous. PM me your contact info and I'll PayPal you the funds for its cost and shipping.
If I can get a working sensitizer I'm going to contact NASA and get my press pass reinstated. I'll send you and Bored Chemist meteorite prints of the last rocket to ever be launched from the Cape.
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Well, I have tracked down my copy of Bentley and Driver's text book of Pharmaceutical Chemistry (1951).
Now all I have to do is remember how to upload an image. (and see if I can resize it to fit)
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And part II
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Let me know if that makes any sense.
I realise that it's not the most accessible language.
According to this
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=%22solution%20of%20ferric%20sulphate%22&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CFEQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2F (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=%22solution%20of%20ferric%20sulphate%22&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CFEQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sciencemadness.org%2Ftalk%2Ffiles.php%3Fpid%3D140008%26aid%3D6594&ei=Wi3nT4zKN4KLhQfqyanNCQ&usg=AFQjCNGrWhAaNUeSJ_yXH34E0iJr4LAt0g)
www.sciencemadness.org%2Ftalk%2Ffiles.php%3Fpid%3D140008%26aid (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=%22solution%20of%20ferric%20sulphate%22&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CFEQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sciencemadness.org%2Ftalk%2Ffiles.php%3Fpid%3D140008%26aid%3D6594&ei=Wi3nT4zKN4KLhQfqyanNCQ&usg=AFQjCNGrWhAaNUeSJ_yXH34E0iJr4LAt0g)
%3D6594&ei=Wi3nT4zKN4KLhQfqyanNCQ&usg=AFQjCNGrWhAaNUeSJ_yXH34E0iJr4LAt0g (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=%22solution%20of%20ferric%20sulphate%22&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CFEQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sciencemadness.org%2Ftalk%2Ffiles.php%3Fpid%3D140008%26aid%3D6594&ei=Wi3nT4zKN4KLhQfqyanNCQ&usg=AFQjCNGrWhAaNUeSJ_yXH34E0iJr4LAt0g)
the ferric sulphate solution contains 10% iron by weight so the 40 ml of it that the recipe calls for would need about 4 grams of iron. That's a lot of meteor dust.
Is this project still plausible if we use ordinary iron for most of it, and just a bit of stardust?
That 4 grams of iron would produce about 20g of ferric ammonium citrate. How much does the photography need?
I have edited the address above so (hopefully) it doesn't mess up the formatting of the thread any more. You will need to patch it together if you want to follow it.
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The recipe I use calls for 9 grams of ferric sulphate.
For each print 8x10 I use about 4ml of sensitizer.
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ferric sulphate. ?
Ferric Sulphate or ferric ammonium citrate?
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Ferric ammonium citrate. Sorry. I was still in need of my morning caffeine when I wrote that.
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9 grams of ferric ammonium citrate would imply about 1.9 g of iron. That's still rather a lot of meteorite.
(and I apologise for messing up the thread formatting with that long link.)
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Meteorites are cheeper than I would have thought.
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.meteorites-for-sale.com%2Fimages%2FP%2Fsa-355.jpg&hash=3465e063905fd1197897638080192fa9)
This sample of Sikhote-Alin Iron Meteorite is 19 grams and is up for sale for ~£30.
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(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.meteorites-for-sale.com%2Fimages%2FP%2Fsa-357.jpg&hash=f2f0c6819b82983b87182cd0e9648528)
Just bought this meteorite for the project. It weighs in at 22.5 grams.
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Cool!
I guess that, since you make your own photographic chemicals that you have some sort of access to chemicals and equipment
(or that, at least, you are not too frightened of them).
Incidentally, do you ever do "blue print" pictures? In that case the pigment that makes the image contains iron which could be derived from a meteorite too.
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Cool!
I guess that, since you make your own photographic chemicals that you have some sort of access to chemicals and equipment
(or that, at least, you are not too frightened of them).
No real fear. I'm going to proceed slowly, carefully, and as well informed as I can be and hope for the best.
My darkroom is pretty well equipped. Up until now I've been mostly dissolving chemicals in water and then mixing the
solutions to create my needed formulas.
This will be my first try at more advanced chemistry since I was in school (I think one of the Henrys was king at the time).
I may end up going to one of the local universities' chemistry departments and see if I can get a professor to help walk me
through the creation of the first batch.
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I think the slow bit is going to be dissolving the metal in the first place.
You might want someone with a fume cupboard to help there, unless you are prepared for a long wait.
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Right. Good point.
I think finding the meteorite was the easiest part of this project. Now the hard part starts.
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Incidentally, do you ever do "blue print" pictures? In that case the pigment that makes the image contains iron which could be derived from a meteorite too.
I do make cyanotypes. I haven't in a while and I don't really know why.
A blue picture from space. I should make a portrait of the Tardis or Matt Smith for that.
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Once my meteorite arrives how does one go about determining its oxidation state?
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It's current oxidation state will be practically zero. It's a lump of metal.
I'm currently running an experiment to see how quickly a lump of steel weighing about 20g takes to dissolve in dilute sulphuric acid. (50 ml H2SO4 + 200 ml H2O) It's disappointingly slow at the moment, but I'm thinking about that one.
How does this idea of heating the meteorite to red hot and pounding it flat with a hammer grab you?
With cyanotypes you could certainly use meteorite iron for half the iron in the blue pigment, and for all of it if you don't mind using cyanides.
(Can we take the safety warnings as read here please. I'm a real live, trained, experienced chemist and I would probably shy away from using cyanides, especially at home)
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I have no problem at all grinding, heating, or doing whatever needs to be done with the meteorite.
I don't mind using cyanides. There are a goodly amount of chemicals that I use that need to be treated with respect.
Again, thank you so very much for your help. It's been invaluable to me.
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The iron is dissolving: slowly. It's generating something like 1 ml of hydrogen every 10 seconds. (To the nearest order of magnitude. It's hard to measure exactly.)
With 20 g of iron I will get something like 10 litres of gas in total. About a day to react (or maybe a week with the poor accuracy of measurement).
And I suspect it's getting slower.
I'm putting it on something warm like a plant propagator.
And I'm happy to help by the way. This is a fascinating project.
Remaining mass 21.2g at 21:45
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I contacted NASA today and went through the motions to get my press pass reactivated.
The last launch at the Cape is coming up at the end of the summer. I think a series of the last Atlas rocket printed in meteorite will be a worthy subject for this project.
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BC, there is a man in Michigan who makes meteorite Damascus steel straight razors (they are stunning by the way). He hand forges and hammers them. Would the scale (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_scale) produced in that blacksmithing process be Iron(II)?
If so, my first step may be to trade him my meteorite sample for some of his floor sweepings.
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maybe a contact print of Meteor Crater using a Canyon Diablo meteorite?
or a picture of El Chaco with a Campo? http://direcciondefauna.blogspot.com/2010/07/mas-de-500-turistas-visitaron-el.html (http://direcciondefauna.blogspot.com/2010/07/mas-de-500-turistas-visitaron-el.html)
agreed, great project, lots of fun.
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maybe a contact print of Meteor Crater using a Canyon Diablo meteorite?
or a picture of El Chaco with a Campo? http://direcciondefauna.blogspot.com/2010/07/mas-de-500-turistas-visitaron-el.html (http://direcciondefauna.blogspot.com/2010/07/mas-de-500-turistas-visitaron-el.html)
agreed, great project, lots of fun.
Don, you are going to make me start searching out grants talking like that.
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BC, there is a man in Michigan who makes meteorite Damascus steel straight razors (they are stunning by the way). He hand forges and hammers them. Would the scale (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_scale) produced in that blacksmithing process be Iron(II)?
If so, my first step may be to trade him my meteorite sample for some of his floor sweepings.
http://www.classicshaving.com/i/Z%20razors/TZnew13e.jpg
^^^
That's a pic of one of one of the meteorite razors, btw. Off topic, but I use a straight razor and really lust after that thing.
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there is a man in Michigan who makes meteorite Damascus steel straight razors
been done before ... http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/highlights/highlight_objects/loan_in/l/lance_with_a_blade_made_from_m.aspx
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It's probably a mixture of Fe(III) and Fe(II) but a lot of oxides formed at high temperatures are rather slow to react with things.
Dilute acid will certainly oxidise the metal to Fe(II), and also dissolve it at the same time.
Do you have access to hydrogen peroxide?
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What percent? I can order it.
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Hang fire on ordering it. I might as well check if it works nicely first.
Mass of iron lump now 16.2 g
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Thank you.
The hydrogen peroxide I have is the stuff in the medicine cabinet one purchases from the pharmacy.
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That might do the job. As I say, I will think about it then play about (aka experiment). We need an oxidising agent to get the iron to the ferric state. H2O2 is clean- the other products are water and oxygen.
An alternative would be nitric acid but that's not easy to get over the counter and also it will give lots of nasty fumes.
I think we will need a fairly clean product to be sure that this will work.
I wonder if anyone reading this has any thoughts on this plan of mine
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Dissolve the meteorite in dilute sulphuric acid.
Add hydrogen peroxide to convert the iron to Fe(III)
Add ammonium sulphate then excess ammonia to produce Fe(OH)3
The sulphate should keep the mixture acidic enough to avoid precipitating magnesium and a few others. The ammonia will keep the nickel cobalt and copper in solution.
That should give fairly clean Fe(OH)3
Add water + pour it off or filter it off a few times to wash the Fe(OH)3
Add a known quantity of H2SO4 to dissolve most of the Fe(OH)3 and filter it ( that gives a known quantity of iron in solution and also leaves Mn2O3 behind).
From there it's essentially a matter of following the old recipe from the book.
Can anyone see if I done anything dumb?
If it looks like it will work I will calculate the quantities etc.
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Fe(III)? Don't I need Fe(II)?
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I herby dub this, The Shoemaker Process.
Shoemaker print: (n.) A photograph printed with meteoritic iron.
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Ferric ammonium citrate is Fe(III).
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My apologies. I'm doing my best to [strike]relearn[/strike] learn my chemistry, and I'm at least a full step behind where I feel like I should be on the learning curve.
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The meteorite came in today.
It is a Sikhote-Nlin Meteorite. It fell in 1947 in Primorskiy kray, Russia.
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.awcg.com%2FImages%2FShoemaker%2FMeteorite.jpg&hash=04c1656140b1e090695cd55d8f5eacbe)
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After I photograph this thing may I presume my best first course of action would be to put the sample in my vice, go at it with a file and rend some filings to facilitate dissolving it in the acid solution?
Actually, it should be a piece of scrap iron for a proof of concept run.
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Well, there's about 8.5 grams of my lump of metal left.
but I'm bored of waiting so I'm heating the stuff up to speed the reaction.
It looks to me as though that meteorite has a layer of oxide on the surface which could be rather resistant to acid.
Hacksawing it in half would probably help (and it would be a lot less tiresome than turning it into iron filings.)
A proof of concept with a lump of scrap is a very good idea.
It looks like the lump I have would dissolve in a bit less than a week.
YMMV
(Your meteorite may vary.)
According to this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikhote-Alin_meteorite#Composition_and_classification
there's quite a lot of nickel in it, and I doubt that would help the photography any.
Once I have dissolved my lump of scrap I will add some nickel, just to see if I can remove it again.
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It was heat blued during atmospheric entry. Better job than what was done on a few of my antique black powder rifles too.
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One more step forward today. I purchased some Potassium Ferricyanide so I may have a part B for making meteoritic cyanotypes. With that addition to my supplies I should have the materials to create about 5 different types of iron based prints.
I also ordered a quantity of nitric acid for making silver nitrate. Tomorrow I'll look for a manky sterling spoon or some coin silver to render. I'm going to jinx myself here, but compared to F.A.C., silver nitrate looks like it will be rather simple to synthesize.
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Watch out for the fumes when you dissolve it.
Oxides of nitrogen have a nasty reputation of being delayed action poisons.
Simple answer is to set it up outside and walk away.
Anyway, the lump of mild steel has dissolved and I'm filtering the solution before I add some hydrogen peroxide to convert it to ferric sulphate.
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I just checked and I'm out of ammonia.
If I can't find some for sale today when I'm in town I will use sodium hydroxide and an excess of ammonium sulphate.
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Good news: found ammonia on sale.
Bad news: knocked stuff over + will have to start again.
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BC,
That's tragic and this is a lot of effort to go through. Your guidance has been invaluable (overwhelmingly kind to be honest). Don't go through the trouble of starting fresh on my account.
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I found some US coin silver (half a dozen pre 1965 quarters). They didn't have any Silver Eagles or Silver Maple Leaves. I'm going to hold out until I can find some of those because of their purity.
I think I am aso going to make some silver nitrate first because it is seemingly easier. Good practice for making the F.A.C.
Ok, up until now mixing my sensitizers has been dissolving ingredients in water--cooking not chemistry.
Is silver nitrate ~63% silver by weight?
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I don't think it's tragic: just a bit annoying (and a bit messy).
I'm going to do it again just to check up on the difficult bits- cleaning nickel etc out of the mixture and turning it into the citrate.
Getting pure silver is a good idea and yes AgNO3 is about 63% silver (107.87/168.7)
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I don't think it's tragic: just a bit annoying (and a bit messy).
I'm going to do it again just to check up on the difficult bits- cleaning nickel etc out of the mixture and turning it into the citrate.
Thank you for that.
Getting pure silver is a good idea and yes AgNO3 is about 63% silver (107.87/168.7)
Ha! Alright, I'm actually remembering my education.
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Well, I'm back where I was before it went belly up.
To recap:
23.5 g of steel pipe was added to a solution of 50ml (86g) of drain cleaning grade H2SO4 in 200 ml of water.
This was kept warm and left to react. ( I warmed it up each hour or so and left it in an insulated bucket between warmings)
Most of the reaction took 4 hrs but I left it overnight to finish. (I left the reaction outside- the fumes smell pretty bad and I suspect they contain some arsenic hydride.)
The solution had cooled overnight and quite a bit of FeSO4.7H2O had crystallised out.
I warmed the solution to dissolve this then filtered it.
Then I added H2O2
The stuff I have is 17.5% bought from a hydroponics' supply shop.
In theory I needed 7.2 grams to oxidise all the iron to Fe(III) but I used a bit more than twice that much (100 ml)
because part of it will decompose before it reacts.
This step in the reaction gets quite hot and fizzes like crazy.
I left this to cool and for any excess H2O2 to decompose.
Then I added 60 g of( NH4)2SO4 and heated the solution to get it to dissolve
(I used stuff recrystallised from fertiliser grade material. The purity of things isn't that critical yet)
Added a ;littl nickel carbonate to see if I ca remove it again.
I'm now going to let it cool down before I add the ammonia.
The stuff I bought doesn't state a concentration. I'm guessing its about 10% but I will measure the density and see how that tallies.
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Well, left to cool overnight the mixture produced some nice looking crystals of ferric ammonium sulphate. (Iron alum)
That's likely to be nice and pure (most of the other ions present wouldn't fit into the crystal properly).
So, I think I will cool it in the fridge and collect the crystals and use them. They yield might not be good enough, but I will see how that goes.
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I have ordered a Silver Egale and a Silver Maple Leaf as well as some nitric acid for the silver nitrate.
I also ordered some H2SO4.
Living in the sticks means the whole world is 5-7 UPS shipping days away.
You can find anything one may need, but it always takes a week to arrive.
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It seems I'm a slight idiot. I only thought to order some citric acid on Sunday. However, with luck it will be here soon enough.
The ferric ammonium sulphate is rather pretty violet crystals.
I poured the liquid off and added excess ammonia.
I'm filtering off the precipitated iron hydroxide from that (The liquid is blueish green so the nickel has stayed in solution and only the iron has precipitated. Goody)
I will dissolve the alum and precipitate the iron hydroxide from that later probably with sodium hydroxide- that's cheap and since the iron alum has enough ammonia in it and is fairly pure already I can keep the rest of the ammonia solution for later .
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Excellent.
I'm still waiting for my chemicals to be delivered. With the Fourth of July holiday tomorrow everything is going to be a day or more delayed.
Good news, I was in a town about 20 miles away doing some business and happened to drive by a pawn shop that had in small print at the bottom of their sign, Coin Dealer. So I stopped. The proprietor did have Silver Eagles and a few in poor condition as far as a numismatist would be concerned and I was able to purchase a few for the price of the silver alone. As I turned to leave I noticed a wall full of meteorites. Turns out the owner is a science geek and collects meteorites. The only meteorite dealer within hundreds of miles from me happens to be located in the next town over.
Not only does he have Sikhote-Alin meteorites, he also had a handful of Campo del Cielo samples as well. The Campo del Cielos have been polished too, so no crust of oxidation. Not wanting to pass on serendipity I bought a 29.563g sample (and for half the price I found the Sikhote-Alin online).
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.awcg.com%2FImages%2FShoemaker%2FCampo_del_Cielo.jpg&hash=436f8dfdf8d1460c2ae10e4479797177)
Sikhote-Alin (L.), Campo del Cielo (R.)
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Ran into a snag. The company I ordered my chemicals from will only ship to a business address that is zoned for industrial use and not to a residence. I work from home and they will only ship to me if my darkroom is physically separated from my property. Need to find a new source now.
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Bother!
I sometimes find ebay sellers are less concerned about such matters.
Anyway, I'm currently washing all the Fe(OH)3.
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Good news, I'm a step closer to getting my NASA press pass. I want to photograph an Atlas rocket launch and print that in meteorite.
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Ebay did the trick. Thanks.
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Bother!
I sometimes find ebay sellers are less concerned about such matters.
Anyway, I'm currently washing all the Fe(OH)3.
How did it turn out?
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Well, its sitting in a coffee filter waiting for me to work out what to do next. Redissolve it in dilute H2SO4 I think , but I'm still trying to find a definite answer about how much iron there is in "ferric sulphate solution" according to the pharmacopoeia. There seem to be two answers, 10% or 14%, depending which pages you look at.
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Ran into a snag. The company I ordered my chemicals from will only ship to a business address that is zoned for industrial use and not to a residence. I work from home and they will only ship to me if my darkroom is physically separated from my property. Need to find a new source now.
I was hoping to find the exploding darkroom scene from Kind Hearts and Coronets on Youtube, but no luck I'm afraid.
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Someone sent me this link:http://holoforum.org/oldforum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6561
Interesting, but I think it makes a blob of both green and brown forms of FAC.
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Well, if it works then it works but I'd be worried by the impurities that come from the metal and also from the effect of the electric current on the citrate ions.
Anyway, I (re) started with 23.5g of steel.
That's pretty close to 23.5 g of iron which is 0.42 moles.
If it were pure and I didn't lose any when I did the dissolution etc then I'd have 0.42 moles of Fe(OH)3
I could react that with exactly 1.5 times as many moles of acid (i.e. 63 grams) to dissolve it then dilute it with water to get the 10%( or 13% I haven't quite made up my mind yet) solution I'm after for that recipe.
However I know that the iron wasn't pure and I will have lost some.
So I will use a smaller known amount of acid and stir that up with the Fe(OH)3 sludge.
It makes that maths easy if I use 0.5 moles of acid.
That's 48 grams of pure acid.
The drain cleaner I have is about 98% (based on the density which I measured as of 1.83 or 1.84g/ml).
So I need about 50 g of the 98% stuff.
I measured that out and added it to about 50ml of water then stirred in the Fe(OH)3 sludge.
The acid will dissolve the hydroxide and give the sulphate. There will be some left over sludge which I can filter off.
If I run water through the sludge then I will transfer all the ferric sulphate (pretty close to 2/3 times 0.5 moles) to the solution and so I will have a good idea of the concentration.
It sounds complicated, but It's often taken me as long to type up this stuff as to actually do it.
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My nitric acid came in finally.
I have an ounce of silver dissolving now. It's going to take quite a while it seems. It's moving quite slowly.
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Make sure you don't breathe the fumes.
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It is set up in the back garden and I won't approach it without my respirator. There is also a good breeze.
Although the breeze is probably the most important part of that.
The ridges on the side of the coin and the face are gone this morning. It's going to take days. Kind of a shame that the heat wave we just had has passed. It is only going to be 33º today. It was 42º the other day. That would have sped things up.
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My first (and probably only) batch of silver nitrate is almost complete.
I had access to a fume hood. I vacuum filtered it several times and now the batch is sitting in a desiccator drying out.
I'll make a small batch of VanDyke sensitizer and make a few test prints with it directly.
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Fresh from the print washer
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.awcg.com%2FImages%2FShoemaker%2FShoemaker.moon.test.jpg&hash=fb5ea91288a2efc8227bae9f5af3bc10)
Shoemaker test print-1
This is a kind of Kallitype print called a VanDyke. It is an Iron/Silver print.
The silver came from this US Silver Eagle, and the iron is from the meteorite on the right.
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.awcg.com%2FImages%2FShoemaker%2FCampo_del_Cielo.jpg&hash=436f8dfdf8d1460c2ae10e4479797177)
The meteorite is a Campo del Cielo meteorite that fell 4000-5000 years ago in Argentina.
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Very pretty.
(incidentally I have been away for a couple of weeks)
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Qu'elle excitement !
It only took me 7.5 years to find this thread. Have wondered about the topic for some time and have been consumed by it for weeks.
Would love to know more of these adventures and would like to share my own.
I have HCl, steel wool, meteorites, hematite, elemental Fe (very high grade), iron filings, etc. And questions, lotsa' those!
Very exciting to read about your work(s) here. Do I start a new thread? Contact individuals directly? or...?
Thanks and aloha!
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That's an interesting project!
- I like the idea of using water from the river to make a photo of the river
- or iron from a meteorite impact to make a picture of the crater
- or a silver dollar to take a picture of the Washington monument...
These days, when people say they made something themselves, they normally mean they added water to the premixed ingredients, and put it in the microwave for a few minutes...