Naked Science Forum

Non Life Sciences => Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology => Topic started by: Quantumcat on 12/03/2003 00:14:18

Title: About electrons
Post by: Quantumcat on 12/03/2003 00:14:18

What makes them spin around at their (constant?) speed, where is the force that makes them do this? Why don't electrons fall into the nucleus?

Title: Re: About electrons
Post by: chris on 26/03/2003 01:36:58

This is a really good question - there must be someone out there who can help ? I'm not a physicist but I'd really like to know the answer !

Chris

Title: Re: About electrons
Post by: Lampiao on 31/03/2003 14:12:18

The electron's "orbit" around a nucleus is only really a concept by which it makes it easier for scientists to "understand" or "visualise" what is actually happening. The reality is more like that the electron is an "energy wave" such that an integer number of wavelengths of which fit around that orbital distance. In reality there is no little ball which is an electron

The forces involved as well are different from say the gravitational forces that bind together the earth and the moon. Whilst there is an attractive force between the negative charge of the electron and the positive charge of the protons in the nucleus- there is also a short range repulsive nuclear force which helps keep the electrons away from the nucleus.

These repulsive forces can be overcome by putting huge forces on the electrons and accelerating them up to high speeds in cyclotrons and colliding them into nulceii.

Title: Re: About electrons
Post by: NakedScientist on 31/03/2003 23:45:26

Thanks for clearing that one up, but the explanation begs the question if mutual repulsion keeps the electron wave out of the nucleus, why doesn't the same repulsion keep the protons out of the nucleus ?!

TNS

Title: Re: About electrons
Post by: Lampiao on 01/04/2003 10:10:04

Gluons!

check out

http://physics.bu.edu/ATLAS/guide/force-page.html

http://webphysics.davidson.edu/mjb/qcd.html

http://aether.lbl.gov/www/tour/elements/stellar/strong/strong.html

http://jupiterscientific.org/sciinfo/higgs.html

Title: Re: About electrons
Post by: NakedScientist on 01/04/2003 20:12:35

Cheers Lampiao, that's cleared that one up !

TNS

Title: Re: About electrons
Post by: Quantumcat on 02/04/2003 06:54:19

But but but ... what is "waving" when the electrons "wave" around? Electrons aren't part of the electromagnetic spectrum, are they? My physics teacher told us that light can travel through the vacuum somehow because of fluctuating electric and magnetic fields (he didn't explain it very well, and we don't really know what he meant) is an electron wave (if there is such a phrase) something to do with this, if not ... well .... what waves? What about all the other things that we were told at school to see as little balls? Like neutrons and protons and whatnot? Are they waves as well? What do they wave through if so????

Title: Re: About electrons
Post by: Lampiao on 02/04/2003 09:18:12

I think you'd just best sit back and just accept what your teacher says![:)]

Basically "wave" or "particle" you are dipping your toes very slightly into the wacky world of quantum mechanics - and onless you want to get even more confused. Best just ignore some of the tricky ideas until later.

Electrons, protons, neutrons etc all can have a wave/particle duality - that is thaey exhibit behaviour of both a wave and a particle - reality being what it is the basic particles of matter are probably niether one or the other - or there again they may be both!

At the "cutting edge" of quatum science is string and "brane" theories - which all look at describing fundemental particles as vibrating strings - the wavelength of the vibration and the number of peaks describing the properties of that particle.

There is also indicatios that the wave also describes the "probability" of the particle's existence at a particular point in space-time - but from here on in stuff gets even more fuzzy with talk of 11 dimensional branes, hiesenberg uncertainty principles and schrodingers cat all ready to confuse the socks off you!

Title: Re: About electrons
Post by: Quantumcat on 04/04/2003 12:30:17

Schrodinger's Cat is where I took the username I use everywhere from :-p

I know a little of quantum mechanics and the uncertainty principle and special (or general? can't remember) relativity but I'd like to learn more, if you know of a good site for it that would be really cool ^_^

Speaking of the uncertainty principle, that reminds me of a joke:

Heisenberg was speeding along a highway when a policeman pulled him over.
"Do you know how fast you were going?" sayd the policeman.
"No, but I know where I am!" replied Heisenberg.

Title: Re: About electrons
Post by: lightarrow on 09/08/2006 11:46:17

However, even if classical physics is completely inappropriate to describe the behaviour of an electron in an atom, there is a simple classical answer to the questions: "What makes electrons spin around the nucleus at their speed? Where is the force that makes them do this? Why don't electrons fall into the nucleus?"

The answer is: centrifugal force. The same reason for which earth doesn't fall into the sun.

Title: Re: About electrons
Post by: Mjhavok on 09/08/2006 12:23:00

Never just accept what your teacher says. If you are confused ask questions or read up on it via a textbook or the web.

Steven