Naked Science Forum

Life Sciences => Cells, Microbes & Viruses => Topic started by: SmartyPants on 13/03/2010 03:20:56

Title: Can Vitamin D Deficiency be fatal?
Post by: SmartyPants on 13/03/2010 03:20:56: This is my first time posting on this site. I am a survivor of a Vitamin D deficiency so bad it almost killed me. So what is it like to have adult onset rickets?

For one thing I could write a thesis so unless you want all of my story I will spare you.

Essentially Vitamin D is the one thing that allows nutrition to be maintained by the blood supply. No Vitamin D means all other nutrition in the blood will leave the body. There are no doctors today that have seen rickets so I went undiagnosed until I started losing 9 pounds of body weight like clock work every 16 days. First to go was muscle mass then fat stores. They ran thousands and thousands of dollars of tests on me and could not figure it out.

I went to a doctor who ran a vitamin panel and found out that my blood contained NO Protein, No Calcium, nothing! Basically I was walking around on plasma. My joints were inflamed and my rib cage had started to reshape based on how I slept in my bed. My skin was numb due to No Vitamin B of any kind. And I was anemic to the point I had used up all stores of iron.

I was not able to eat for the joint pain that would flare up if I did. I think it was my bones yelling for help. The digestive enzymes that should exist in a healthy person were on the decline in my body so I was not able to digest well. They thought I had sprew or crones, but that was not the case upon biopsy.

The cure? Vitamin D, Iron, Shots of B-12 big enough for a horse, and a multi-vitamin. It took 2 years to restore my iron stores and I had to include a papaya enzyme to help absorb all the vitamins and iron as well.

Today my prognosis is a pure vitamin D deficiency where even though I can supplement and sit in the sun on nice days, I cannot absorb enough to restore the vast stores of Vitamin D that the body is supposed to keep on hand during the winter months that most people have.

When my levels get lower, I get a foggy brain, and my skin goes numb, and I sweat too much. Also I get aches that do not go away in my feet and legs and arms. But when I up my doses of Vitamin D, all goes back to normal. no pain.

I am so lucky to have survived and had gotten to a doctor who would listen and run that vitamin panel. Most doctors think you are making it all up in your head.

Today I take 4000 to 6000 IU of Vitamin D daily to maintain. I have not had a single cold in a year.

So when you think about Bomb Shelters, just know that a Vitamin D deficiency will kill you before the lack of freeze dried food and water will. [:0]
Title: Re: Can Vitamin D Deficiency be fatal?
Post by: neilep on 13/03/2010 19:19:41: Thanks for your story and insight into Vitamin D Deficiency SmartyPants...I hope you do not mind but I have given your post a title so that people can see what it's all about.
Title: Re: Can Vitamin D Deficiency be fatal?
Post by: Bored chemist on 13/03/2010 20:22:19: What sort of diet were you eating that was so short of vitamin D?
Title: Re: Can Vitamin D Deficiency be fatal?
Post by: RD on 14/03/2010 00:06:53: SmartyPants's post has all the hallmarks of stealth spam:
if so their alter-ego will attempt to post a link to "buy your vitamin D supplement here" in a few days.

BTW

Quote
The upper limit (UL) for vitamin D has been recommended as 2,000 IU daily due to toxicities that can occur when taken in higher doses.
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/patient-vitamind.html

So SmartyPants, if telling the truth, is overdosing.
Title: Re: Can Vitamin D Deficiency be fatal?
Post by: Geezer on 14/03/2010 06:45:34: Looks like the tribe has voted!

I'm locking the thread. SmartyPants can let me know if he or she has a problem with this.
Title: Re: Can Vitamin D Deficiency be fatal?
Post by: JimBob on 15/03/2010 17:12:53: Quote from: DiscoverDave on 14/03/2010 04:01:43
(PS -- I agree with RD about this being spam. It's soooooo obvious. Science fiction? _[;D]^Haha!)

Ignorance is bliss. My doctor has me on 4000 IU a day of vitamin D. My deficiency is due to my body's inability to properly absorb Vitamin D as a result of other medications and a hormonal imbalance that results. Many people with arthritis have a Vitamin D deficiency.

Unless you are an MD your opinion is worthless, D.D. Wikipedia is a poor way to become an expert on a subject.

I am unlocking the thread.

(Apologies Geezer - see my email to you.)
Title: Re: Can Vitamin D Deficiency be fatal?
Post by: Variola on 15/03/2010 18:55:17: Quote
Ignorance is bliss. My doctor has me on 4000 IU a day of vitamin D. My deficiency is due to my body's inability to properly absorb Vitamin D as a result of other medications and a hormonal imbalance that results. Many people with arthritis have a Vitamin D deficiency.

Yup. I'm on 5000 IU a day too, and I notice the difference when taking it. Mine is not due to deficiency but to help heal other medical problems that I have.and much to my amazement it is working.
And in answer to the overdose poser, unless you live in a sunshine scorched area then chances of any toxicity from possible over dose is minimal.
Title: Re: Can Vitamin D Deficiency be fatal?
Post by: Bored chemist on 15/03/2010 19:38:01: I still think it's spam and I'd still like to know what sort of diet is that short of vitamin D. If the problem was due to some other issue then thst should have been spoted .Come to think of it I'd also know how much of the stuff I was taking to boost my supplies so I don't think I'd say "I take 4000 to 6000 IU of Vitamin D daily to maintain". Why the variability?
Title: Re: Can Vitamin D Deficiency be fatal?
Post by: iko on 15/03/2010 20:16:57: Hi there,

you may dedicate 45min. to watch a Michael Holick video (Copenhagen 2007).
He's a vitamin D expert, a real scientist capable of explaining things in a very simple and amazing way.
Approximately 400slides to improve our discussion here.
You may even check his review in N.Engl.J.Med. July 2007...much more serious stuff! [;)]
10000-20000 I.U. vitamin D per day are produced after 10-30min. exposure to UVBlight in a proper place (latitude) and season. Any excess seems to be metabolized in the skin, so no intoxication is possible.
5-10% may come from the diet, just a tiny bit.
Vitamin D resistant rickets has been known for decades by pediatricians, so 'new' metabolic defects that require higher amounts of vitamin D to optimize multiple systems controlled by this hormone may be found in the near future.

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=17027.msg194931#msg194931

http://www.uvadvantage.org/portals/0/pres/
Title: Re: Can Vitamin D Deficiency be fatal?
Post by: RD on 15/03/2010 20:21:23: Quote from: JimBob on 15/03/2010 17:12:53
Wikipedia is a poor way to become an expert on a subject.

The source of the upper limit of vitamin-D I quoted (http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/patient-vitamind.html) is not from Wikipedia, it's from MedlinePlus ...
Quote
a service of the US National Library of Medicine and National Institutes of Health
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/aboutmedlineplus.html

This isn't from wikipedia either ...

Quote
Vitamin D Toxicity

Usually, vitamin D toxicity results from taking excessive amounts. Marked hypercalcemia commonly causes symptoms. Diagnosis is typically based on elevated blood levels of 25(OH)D. Treatment consists of stopping vitamin D, restricting dietary Ca, restoring intravascular volume deficits, and, if toxicity is severe, giving corticosteroids or bisphosphonates.

Because synthesis of 1,25(OH)2D (the most active metabolite of vitamin D) is tightly regulated, vitamin D toxicity usually occurs only if excessive doses (prescription or megavitamin) are taken. Vitamin D 1000 μg (40,000 IU)/day produces toxicity within 1 to 4 mo in infants. In adults, taking 1250 μg (50,000 IU)/day for several months can produce toxicity. Vitamin D toxicity can occur iatrogenically when hypoparathyroidism is treated too aggressively (see Fluid and Electrolyte Metabolism: Treatment).

Symptoms

The main symptoms result from hypercalcemia. Anorexia, nausea, and vomiting can develop, often followed by polyuria, polydipsia, weakness, nervousness, pruritus, and eventually renal failure. Proteinuria, urinary casts, azotemia, and metastatic calcifications (particularly in the kidneys) can develop ...

Kidney damage or metastatic calcifications, if present, may be irreversible.

Last full review/revision April 2007 by Larry E. Johnson, MD, PhD

Content last modified April 2007
http://155.91.16.2/mmpe/sec01/ch004/ch004k.html
Title: Re: Can Vitamin D Deficiency be fatal?
Post by: iko on 15/03/2010 20:57:13: Quote from: RD on 15/03/2010 20:21:23

Quote
Vitamin D Toxicity

Because synthesis of 1,25(OH)2D (the most active metabolite of vitamin D) is tightly regulated, vitamin D toxicity usually occurs only if excessive doses (prescription or megavitamin) are taken. Vitamin D 1000 μg (40,000 IU)/day produces toxicity within 1 to 4 mo in infants. In adults, taking 1250 μg (50,000 IU)/day for several months can produce toxicity. Vitamin D toxicity can occur iatrogenically when hypoparathyroidism is treated too aggressively (see Fluid and Electrolyte Metabolism: Treatment).

Content last modified April 2007
http://155.91.16.2/mmpe/sec01/ch004/ch004k.html

Here we are: 4000 I.U. per day is about one tenth! [:)]
600000 I.U. single dose shot is recommended in children with rickets.
I'll post a reference by Vieth...10000 per day safe in the long run.
Cheers,

Ikoded
Title: Re: Can Vitamin D Deficiency be fatal?
Post by: Variola on 15/03/2010 21:58:55: Quote
I won’t turn this into a urinating match, because I respect people and what ails them. I am not an MD, but I’ve studied enough biochemistry and molecular biology to know what’s what, pretty much. I know some doctors whose opinions are worthless.

That is because doctor's are not scientists.

If you have studied enough biochem and molecular biology you would know how tightly regulated Vit D synth is, and how much you would have to intake to cause any sign of toxicity.
Title: Re: Can Vitamin D Deficiency be fatal?
Post by: Geezer on 15/03/2010 23:51:51: I think I might have to lock this thread again [;D]
Title: Re: Can Vitamin D Deficiency be fatal?
Post by: JimBob on 16/03/2010 03:02:46: No Geezer, you just need to watch those who wish to continue to disregard real facts to bolster their own opinion. They even disagree with the two medical professionals - one a physician - who have posted overwhelming arguments and references to scientific literature that indicate their original position is full of SERIOUS flaws.
Title: Can Vitamin D Deficiency be fatal?
Post by: iko on 16/04/2010 17:25:46: A promise is a promise... [;)]
so here you find D-vitamin safety limits:

Risk assessment for vitamin D.

Hathcock JN, Shao A, Vieth R, Heaney R.
Council for Responsible Nutrition, Washington, DC 20036-5114, USA. jhathcock@crnusa.org

The objective of this review was to apply the risk assessment methodology used by the Food and Nutrition Board (FNB) to derive a revised safe Tolerable Upper Intake Level (UL) for vitamin D. New data continue to emerge regarding the health benefits of vitamin D beyond its role in bone. The intakes associated with those benefits suggest a need for levels of supplementation, food fortification, or both that are higher than current levels. A prevailing concern exists, however, regarding the potential for toxicity related to excessive vitamin D intakes. The UL established by the FNB for vitamin D (50 microg, or 2000 IU) is not based on current evidence and is viewed by many as being too restrictive, thus curtailing research, commercial development, and optimization of nutritional policy. Human clinical trial data published subsequent to the establishment of the FNB vitamin D UL published in 1997 support a significantly higher UL. We present a risk assessment based on relevant, well-designed human clinical trials of vitamin D.
Collectively, the absence of toxicity in trials conducted in healthy adults that used vitamin D dose > or = 250 microg/d (10,000 IU vitamin D3) supports the confident selection of this value as the UL.

Am J Clin Nutr. 2007 Jan;85(1):6-18.

Free full text to enjoy real Science! http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/85/1/6
Title: Can Vitamin D Deficiency be fatal?
Post by: Karen W. on 17/04/2010 02:51:24: Thanks IKO!
Title: Can Vitamin D Deficiency be fatal?
Post by: kelvinwaugh on 07/05/2010 06:42:34: In order to obtain the full potential benefits of vitamin D, such as reduction in blood sugar and sensitisation to insulin, reduction in cancer risk, reductions in blood pressure, increased bone density, not to mention markedly increasing the likelihood of stopping or reducing your heart scan score, then achieving a desirable blood level of 25(OH) vitamin D is necessary. They felt it worked for a lot of things that required boosted immunity including lupus, arthritis, fish skin and psoriasis.
Title: Can Vitamin D Deficiency be fatal?
Post by: Karen W. on 11/05/2010 15:01:29: Are those all benifits that you are mentioning....good things or what?
Title: Re: Can Vitamin D Deficiency be fatal?
Post by: Donaldchris on 11/11/2014 15:57:16: Well my deficiency of is due, to my body's lack of ability to effectively process Vitamin D due to other medicines and a hormone imbalance that results. Many people with joint arthritis have a Vitamin D deficiency.