Naked Science Forum
Life Sciences => Cells, Microbes & Viruses => Topic started by: emalita on 05/01/2008 17:39:01
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I wrote this in a previous post...but realized it would be better to just start a new one!
I have been doing some research on using medical grade DMSO and Acyclovir to make the herpes virus "unreactivatable". Does this sound somewhat promising?
The person would apply Acyclovir cream to the lower back (for genital herpes) and then apply DMSO (the easiest method would be to use a prediluted DMSO spray). Acyclovir is meant to disrupt the viral DNA so that it cannot replicate. But antiviral medications can only treat a herpes outbreak, not the virus itself. So, if DMSO could carry the antiviral to cells, in theory, it would be able to disrupt the viral DNA within the cell...right?
Does this sound too crazy to work? The person may still have the virus in their cells, but it would be "unreactivatable".
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Hello emalita.
I'm afraid that your strategy will not work because the problem of herpes reactivation is not related to a failure of aciclovir to reach the virus inside cells - aciclovir can be taken by mouth (or injected) and reaches every part of the body with good efficiency.
Instead, the problem is that the latent (quiescent or dormant) virus is not vulnerable to aciclovir. It is only once the virus has reactivated and begun replicating (usually symptomatically) that aciclovir is effective. This is because, in its native state, the drug must be activated by a viral gene product called thymidine kinase (TK), which is only made when the virus is active.
So, I'm afraid, your DMSO approach, whilst a good idea, is flawed in theory and in practice.
Sorry!
Chris
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Thanks! That is the first explanation that makes sense!
Okay...I have also read about using DMSO by itself or with hydrogen peroxide. Both claim that oxygenating the cells would not allow the virus to thrive (since viruses cannot live in an oxygen rich environment). Is there any truth to that theory?
Thanks!
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No, that theory is rubbish. The virus lives in nerve cells, which have a very high metabolic rate and hence high oxygen demand and delivery. There's no evidence for oxygen under physiological conditions killing viruses. Perhaps you're thinking of anaerobic bacteria, like Clostridia or Bacteroides, which are certainly destroyed by oxygen exposure?
Chris
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Hello, just joined. I wonder if the answers are a bit harsh here? Hydrogen Peroxide is not the same as stable oxygen I think. It is water, plus one oxygen atom. The single atom is easily released from the bonds, and it becomes a free radical which will oxydise bacteria. I think this is what macrophanges use, they release h202 to kill invading bacteria and viruses etc... So hydrogen peroxide may help against all sorts of viruses. However I have not heard, in my very limited experience, of mixing h202 with dmso as a sort of skin cream, and I would tread very carefully on this.
First what strength of hydrogen peroxide are you thinking of. Even 3% h202 can burn skin to some extent. So mixing it with dmso which is an extraordinarily good carrier through skin, to aid other compounds penetration past the skin layers...well that could turn very nasty. Also, as h202 reacts it releases oxygen bubbles...do you really want layers of bubbles under your skin damaging delicate structures which could cause brusing and damage. Free blood trapped in body cavities is not a great idea because h202 can also cause blood to congeal: a great way to get a thrombosis perhaps? However taken by mouth, even though it enters the blood stream it seems to not have drastic effects on blood clotting, but in India in the last century I read that even doctors injected h202 (don't try this at home, now! Do you know how they did it and what concentrations???) to treat terrible outbreaks of a vicious flu epidemic, or some similar fatal infection. So the risk of blood clotting must have been small, or less of a risk than leaving the seriously ill patient untreated. Hydrogen peroxide has been administered by mouth by some natural therapists and holistic GP's for virus infections and to treat systemic candiasis, and the reports seem to have been positive when a strict protocol is observed. But this is in the order of 3mls of 3% in 500mls of water, possibly going up to 5mls of 6% in 500mls of water, some say. However I have tried drinking this at the lower mixture concentration, and it has a nasty back of the mouth taste. I found I could not cope with drinking anything stronger than 3mls of 3% in 500mls of water. Also you should not drink it in gulps (sip it actually, take your time, it goes down a lot easier that way!) nor take it at the same time as food or vitamins of any sort. The hydrogen perxodide will react with vitamins and food in your stomach and you will burp up oxygen that never got into your lymph and blood system. If you are intersted in h202 you may also be intersted in Ozone Therapy, pioneered by Dr Schellander of the Liongate Clinic among others, in England. He is now retired I understand, but there are others (find someone competent please!).
There is a single amino acid, availabe in health stors, called possibly L-lysine, which is reported to help herpes sores. Don't know if you swallow it or use it as cream to apply...possibly both?
What brought me to this Forum today is that edta is used to treat cardiovascular diseases, but it was noted that some patients also experienced it acting as an anti-depressant. There are some doctors who think edta acts by enabling arginine I think, and this gives the noted cardiovascular improvement..but edta may also chelate the plaque build up in blood vessels say other doctors. This anti depressant effect after edta therapy may not be the edta itself, but rather the results of the edta, in terms of removing heavy metals or excess metals such as copper. Excess levels of copper, some argue, causes low histamine in some people, and they argue that low levels of the neurotransmitter histmaine in some people cause a depressed mood. They have coined the strange name "histapenia" for this condition. So they say, remove the toxic metals and things improve. Or could it be that enzyme systems once blocked by heavy metals start to function fully again? But again there is a strict protocol in using edta, which is usually by intravenous drip, but can be taken by mouth some say, and you would need medical advice...which incidentally I AM NOT GIVING YOU HERE!!! See a qualified practioner.
As edta is a synthetic amino acid, I have wondered if there are any other naturally occuring amio acids that act as chelators like edta. And if there are any, would they also have the same noted anti-depressant effect. I came across one, a weaker chelator, but cannot recall the name of it right now...so I will have to get back to you on this.
However this week I read that the di-petide Carnosine acts as a chelator, and the writer claimed it was as good as edta (when taken by mouth?). It is also observed that Carnosine seems to act as a rejuvinator in the elderly. Carnosine is made, interestingly enough, of (I think) arginine, and certainly L-histadine...the precursor of histamine. So some of its reported rejuvination may be an anti-depressant effect due to removing heavy metals but also due to raising histamine levels which may decrease with age of course. Aluminium is thought to be implicated in alzheimers, after all. Also if I am correct that arginine is the other amino acid, this may have beneficial effects on blood systems too.
As a note of caution, the proponents of "histapenia" also say they have seen a condition of too much histamine in some people and coined the term "histadelia" for it. In those people doing anything to raise histamine levels, taking Carnosine perhaps, could prove drastic. So it may be correct to say here "one man's meat is a nother man's poison". Take care. I have just looked at the date of your postings, and note it was years ago...never mind someone else may be reading this thread now. You sound very innovative and experimental, but you also sound like you get these brainwaves when thinking alone in your room. Don't please be like Igor with a spanner! Seek out some other good open-minded doctors who are into all this stuff...medical consultations are an expensive hobby I know however.
Now where's my hunting-and-shooting gun, I hear ducks far away in a gaggle and they are saying "Quack". Darn those skeptics. I will say boo to a goose! "Quack", boom! Take that!
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" I think this is what macrophanges use, they release h202 to kill invading bacteria and viruses etc... "
It is, and they do.
Since this doesn't get rid of herpes we know that H2O2, even when delivered to the right place won't work.
The likelihood of it working when delivered to the skin is essentially nil because, as soon as it get's to the bloodstream, it will be destroyed by catalase. The same goes for drinking it.
"Hydrogen peroxide has been administered by mouth by some natural therapists and holistic GP's "
Quack alert!