So my list of "complementary" medicines has been shown not to work (by the fact they have not been monetised by conventional medicine??)
Which was that conventional western medicine is the only medicine you should consider against a virus that has no cure, even if we have historical evidence of positive results pertaining from complementary medicines such as herbalism;
it would see sensible, to me, to look at complementary medicine. This would be especially true if resistance to conventional medicine is confirmed.
Is it not because no-one can patent it and therefore make money from it? It can't be that difficult to carry out some live studies with current infections. A) it helped, B) it did not help.
. As mentioned above, why is not possible to shrug off "rumoured to work" and complete initial testing to show how complimentary medicine can help the masses.
Perhaps the real fear is patient self application. For example, I could purchase all the items on the list and use them freely if I wish, with either good/bad or indifferent results. What would therefore the role of the doctor be?
Prevention is always better than cure. If you build up a strong immune system you are less likely to circum to the virus. Diet is the most important ingredient along with exercise, sleep and relaxation (eg having a massage every now and then. Avoiding stress is also a good idea but I guess it is not possible for most people.
"In the meantime, will prepare my own first aid kit, "
For what it's worth, I have prepared my own first aid kit for flu.
Lots of bottled orange juice. Lots of biscuits and crisps (I think they are called chips across the pond). Vitamin pills too, but nothing extraordinary- just cheap one-a-day pills, Paracetamol (acetaminophen for our US cousins) and a few boxes of tissues.
The medical advice is "drink plenty of fluids and stay in bed".
The old adage that you should feed a fever is well supported (up to a point) so that's what all those calories are for) the paracetamol is partly because you can overdo a feever and also because, while I know that the fever (and associated malaise) are part of the body's immune response, it doesn't mean that I like the effect).
All that lot isn't ging to stop me 'phoning the hot line and asking them to send me the antivirals because those have been shown to actually help.
Incidentally the complement of something means the opposite so "alternative medicine" and "complemenatry medicine" mean much the same thing. Once again, there's medicine which works and the complement to that; medicine that... never mind, I'm sure you will work it out.
Incidentally, do you know that plenty of drugs are based on botanicals? Opium and it's derivatives are still used. Aspirin too has been used for a long time. More recently vincristine and taxine have been developed from plants.
If someone looks into lomatium and actually finds that it works then it too will be accepted into real medicine.
If the tests show that it doesn't work it will remain in what gets called "complementary medicine".
People have, it hasn't shown to be make any difference, therefore it stays as it is.Do you have a citation for that, interesting.
QuotePeople have, it hasn't shown to be make any difference, therefore it stays as it is.Do you have a citation for that, interesting.
The old adage that you should feed a fever...
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=24084.0The old adage that you should feed a fever...
I thought it was starve a fever, feed a cold?
QuotePeople have, it hasn't shown to be make any difference, therefore it stays as it is.Do you have a citation for that, interesting.
http://www.evitamins.com/healthnotes.asp?ContentID=2126009
Its has a 1 star rating "For an herb, supported by traditional use but minimal or no scientific evidence. For a supplement, little scientific support and/or minimal health benefit."
"According to obscure sources, lomatium is reputed to have antiviral effects. One source suggests the constituents tetronic acids and a glucoside of luteolin may be potentially antiviral.2 However, little is known about how these compounds act or if other ones might be as important."
Thats from a site that would be biased on the side on benefit.
I could, I expect find more studies or reports.
What do you think happens? That herbs are investigated but then dismissed? Far from it. The drug companies are always looking for new plants herbs or remedies to studies and asses the structure of, and then test to see
if they actually have any benefit.
OP means original post or poster.
"How difficult would it be for the medical advice to read. "drink plenty of fluids containing tincture a, b, c and stay in bed."
It would be easy; and dishonest.
Unless there were some real evidence that a, b, and c worked. If there is, then name a, b and c; otherwise accept that you don't have much to offer.
It's fair to say that the virus may mutate and become more of a problem. It's equally likely (statistically) that it will mutate and become less of a problem. It is in the interests of the virus (if you will forgive the anthropomorphism) to become less of a problem.
Why does averyone seem to fixate on the idea that "it will get worse"; it might or it might not.True. Bad news is good news for some...
" Bet you'd consider eye of newt or tongue of bat over hula hoops! " No I wouldn't I don't believe in magic but I do believe in evidence. Food is known to help snake oil isn't.
"Before they become desperate it would be nice if they had a few more realistic options, even if they have not being billion dollar tested." There are at least 3 antivirals used; one (amantidine) is a bit crap (but I'd choose it rather than eye of newt) and the third is largely being kept in reserve for exactly the reasons you talk about.
Did you not realise that the people doing the planning can read wiki too? They have heard of resistance. Incidentally, do you know that plenty of drugs are based on botanicals?
It will be there along with things like comfrey - known as "knitbone" because of its supposed healing properties and actually found to be hepatotoxic and carcinogenic.
The stuff that doesn't work, or has been shown not to have any real effect, thats called complementary medicine, or maybe just plants.
I think the general issue with considering complementary therapies is to attempt to consider the mechanism through which it works. Setting aside placebo (which is an incredibly powerful effect), this should give you an indication of whether or not there's likely to be any as yet undiscovered physiological effect. By this regime, herbal treatment (which may well include beneficial chemicals) shows a great deal more promise than homeopathy, and one is forced to question things like acupuncture (from what I recall, the most recent studies showed acupuncture works just as well with blunt wooden needles). Not setting aside placebo, you're in a whole different ballpark...
Any real effect is good- whether you consider that as a direct benefit or as an opening for the development of another drug (as with aspirin etc).The stuff that doesn't work, or has been shown not to have any real effect, thats called complementary medicine, or maybe just plants.
Any real effect...even with some effect, perhaps it is better, for some people, than no effect at all.
Well, the idea that people are being sold a bunch of pretty flowers on the false grounds that it cures illness is straightforward fraud
...the idea that people are being sold a bunch of pretty flowers on the false grounds that it cures illness is straightforward fraud.
The other thing is that you really shouldn't mix drugs with other xenobiotics.According to "Maria Treben: http://www.mariatrebenherbs.com/" it's fine (in most situations). A qualified herbal practitioner can advise, as is the advice given.
Are you aware of one noted side effect of St John's wort?Are you aware of the noted side effects of Tamiflu, Relenza et al?
one woman has become pregnant as a result of the "remedy" messing with metabolism...sounds like the start of a Daily Mirror story! Come on!
How sure are you that these "harmless herbal remedies" won't screw up the effects of really effective antivirals like tamiflu?
Unless you can show that these potions are not actively counterproductive I don't think it's morrally correct to promote their use.I reckon the German and Austrian medicinal & herbalist community could prove that their MEDICINE (not witch crafted potions, which time are you living in?) is not actively counter-productive...I can't personally, but I am not personally prescribing or recommending, just counter arguing.
Hope that clears up some of the myths in the UK about herbs and combining herbs for medicinal purposes.Nope. All you've done is said that you can get herbal tea in Germany that claims to help against colds and flu. You can get herbal tea pretty much anywhere, but that doesn't mean anything about it's effectiveness or how it interacts with other chemicals.
Either your lack of knowledge or experience regarding herbs and their ability to heal, is very limited, or you just want to put your head back in the sand, and hope that it will all go away.
..sounds like the start of a Daily Mirror story! Come on!
Be careful, this thread is starting to look like spam.QuoteHope that clears up some of the myths in the UK about herbs and combining herbs for medicinal purposes.Nope. All you've done is said that you can get herbal tea in Germany that claims to help against colds and flu. You can get herbal tea pretty much anywhere, but that doesn't mean anything about it's effectiveness or how it interacts with other chemicals.
you can get herbal tea in Germany
You are ignoring the very fact that the whole industry is unlicensed and unregulated.I think it was more than 'herbal tea'...if you read my article, I am talking about LICENSED MEDICINAL HERBAL BLENDS with a medicinal PZN, not quite the same as a general herbal tea. As with other medicines you dont get the stamp without the testing, trials etc etc. Why is it so hard to accept that these products have been tested and have been shown to be of benefit. Its hard facts (according to the Germans)...
Spam? Thanks! Actually I would call it intelligent argument, but I am biased!
Spam? Thanks! Actually I would call it intelligent argument, but I am biased!
Not a compliment, I'm afraid - the links to websites and detailed product details make it look like you're selling things.
Either your lack of knowledge or experience regarding herbs and their ability to heal, is very limited, or you just want to put your head back in the sand, and hope that it will all go away.
People have died because of alternative/eastern medicine practitioners persuading them to refuse conventional medicine. Some have often paid thousand and thousands of pounds to be treated with plants and conned into believing that it will beat their cancer.
That is plain outrageous, and I feel very strongly about it.
You are ignoring the very fact that the whole industry is unlicensed and unregulated.
..sounds like the start of a Daily Mirror story! Come on!
The contraceptive pill packets now coming with a warning not to take St Johns wort due to the effects it has on the hormonal balance and the pill.
I have yet to see a similar warning on packets of St Johns wort.
If you want to promote the virtues of herbal remedies then go ahead, but get your facts straight first.
Also explain how these remedies can be of so much of a benefit when advice difference wildy from one practitioner to another, and how, if these things are so great, can someone set themselves up as a herbalist/homeopath with no formal training or qualifications? Oh yes I know there are some available, but people don't have to have them.Unlike doctors, microbiologists, biochemists etc who train for years only to be told by some plant lovers that they are depriving ill people and that we are all 'scared'!!
I means, FFS! [::)]
Spam? Thanks! Actually I would call it intelligent argument, but I am biased!
Not a compliment, I'm afraid - the links to websites and detailed product details make it look like you're selling things.
Spam? Thanks! Actually I would call it intelligent argument, but I am biased!
Not a compliment, I'm afraid - the links to websites and detailed product details make it look like you're selling things.
Indeed. Why else would the poster persist in trying to push the alternative remedy when the original post was apparently a curious one?
No-one until this point has anything good to say about herbs, roots, fruits etc. Shame really, as there really are some very intelligent people commenting within this forum. Perhaps I came through the wrong door... Left - Conventional medicine, Right - All others...I wouldn't say that's true - we've acknowledged that many conventional medicines are derived from botanicals, but expressed a healthy concern as to the promotion of unquantified, untested (officially) 'folk' remedies.
No-one until this point has anything good to say about herbs, roots, fruits etc. Shame really, as there really are some very intelligent people commenting within this forum. Perhaps I came through the wrong door... Left - Conventional medicine, Right - All others...
I wouldn't say that's true - we've acknowledged that many conventional medicines are derived from botanicals, but expressed a healthy concern as to the promotion of unquantified, untested (officially) 'folk' remedies.
I'm not sure how these things are promoted in Germany - maybe that's the root of our concern - I've seen herbal teas advertised as a cure for HIV/AIDS, and that's very worrying.
I'd be interested to hear more about the regulation of the industry in Germany - do you know what one would have to do to get a PZN number for a product? What are the regulations on complementary therapies there? What tests do they need to pass? What qualifications does one need to be a therapist?
I'm a little confused by the way you mention homeopathy/homeopaths alongside herbalism - surely they're an entirely different kettle of fish?
...can someone set themselves up as a herbalist/homeopath with no formal training or qualifications?
Either your lack of knowledge or experience regarding herbs and their ability to heal, is very limited, or you just want to put your head back in the sand, and hope that it will all go away.
Quoteone woman has become pregnant as a result of the "remedy" messing with metabolism...sounds like the start of a Daily Mirror story! Come on!
There are at least 3 antivirals used; one (amantidine) is a bit crap,one drug is almost virus resistant, and the final one, who knows it's fate...
Interesting related article out of India today.
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/18514/homeopathy-can-prevent-cure-swine.html
I mean lets look at it in a basic, honest way... what is the advice from the highest sources of medical knowledge in the UK? The medical community says... stay in bed, take an asprin or 2, drink fluids and take a drug that is, by the day becoming less and less effective AND has unknown long-term side effects. GREAT! With the final advise being...Sorry everyone, that's it, we can't advise further and remember, please don't visit your doctor, unless you stop breathing, then call 999. Finally, don't forget, if you or your family members die, we really did give it our best shot and advised you on all the possible remedies, honestly.
Tut-tut.
Actually, what is more of a wonder to me, is that there are people, like you, looking to criticise, ridicule and add worthless petty argument to such an important topic, in order to satisfy some apparent intrinsic desire to appear worthy and intelligent before peers and onlookers...get a grip mate, its not clever and you ain't gonna win any new friends.
I think you missed an enormous point in that article - It's even given in the headline
"Homeopathy can prevent, cure swine flu, say homeopaths"
As far as I am aware, there is no evidence that homeopathy works any better than placebo. Furthermore, there's no reasonable mechanism through which it can work. I'd stick to the herbs if I were you.
As we may have mentioned before, if it works for an individual, great - but promoting a product like this (and the alternative health industry is an enormous profit making industry) is risky. Should someone decide to opt for homeopathic treatment rather than conventional treatment, the homeopaths could have blood on their hands.
I understand entirely that you are talking about complementary therapies being used in conjunction with conventional therapies - the problem is that some people will assess risks based on newspaper articles like this one.
I don't think you've been reading what we've said. It is highly irresponsible for the medical community to recommend something that there is no evidence for. It's even more irresponsible to sell a product claiming it will do things for which there is no evidence.
How would you feel if your doctor prescribes you sugar pills? By promoting untested therapies, that's precisely what they're doing. Plus, the herbal concoctions also have unknown long term side effects.
What this boils down to is chemicals. Doctors advise on the chemicals which have been tested and shown to work. Herbal remedies contain a vast number of chemicals, some may help, some may do nothing, some may be harmful.
If you want to take complementary medicines, go ahead! But why do you feel it's the medical industry's responsibility to advise others to do so?
Simpleton,
you say " I want Relenza in my first aid kit, but I want some herbs, tinctures and fruits too".
Why?
Do you have any evidence that any of them will help?
Which ones will you choose and on what basis would you chose them?Great question. That was, in essence my original question in the first post... that is what I am hoping to qualify on this journey... ahh, a ray of light.
If it's not on the basis of empirical evidence then your thoughts on the matter are unscientific. If you repeatedly post unscientific claptrap on a science forum you can expect to be ridiculed.
If you also choose to insult the people who point out the problems with your ideas then, to say the least, it hardly supports your case.
Actually, what is more of a wonder to me, is that there are people, like you, looking to criticise, ridicule and add worthless petty argument to such an important topic, in order to satisfy some apparent intrinsic desire to appear worthy and intelligent before peers and onlookers...get a grip mate, its not clever and you ain't gonna win any new friends.
The other possibility is... have the vaccine (if offered and available), then you don't even get the flu in the first place! Great. Or not.
The other possibility is... have the vaccine (if offered and available), then you don't even get the flu in the first place! Great. Or not.
I mean lets look at it in a basic, honest way... what is the advice from the highest sources of medical knowledge in the UK? The medical community says... stay in bed, take an asprin or 2, drink fluids and take a drug that is, by the day becoming less and less effective AND has unknown long-term side effects. GREAT! With the final advise being...Sorry everyone, that's it, we can't advise further and remember, please don't visit your doctor, unless you stop breathing, then call 999. Finally, don't forget, if you or your family members die, we really did give it our best shot and advised you on all the possible remedies, honestly.
The other possibility is... have the vaccine (if offered and available), then you don't even get the flu in the first place! Great. Or not.
????
Of course you get the 'flu, thats how vaccines work.
What you don't get is the full blown disease.
I mean lets look at it in a basic, honest way... what is the advice from the highest sources of medical knowledge in the UK? The medical community says... stay in bed, take an asprin or 2, drink fluids and take a drug that is, by the day becoming less and less effective AND has unknown long-term side effects. GREAT! With the final advise being...Sorry everyone, that's it, we can't advise further and remember, please don't visit your doctor, unless you stop breathing, then call 999. Finally, don't forget, if you or your family members die, we really did give it our best shot and advised you on all the possible remedies, honestly.
What exactly do you expect the medical community to do? Doctors are not Gods ( although some think they are!)
This is what irks me about people, they expect conventional, actually lets drop the word conventional, medicine to be able to cure something hey presto.
What do you think it is, magic?? (Rhet)No, it's nature and it is quite magical.
If you go to the doctor with an ailment, you expect pills creams or potions to put it right, and if you dont get anything, people complain. Well tough titty.
Medicine does not have all the answers,
in fact when it comes to the human body we don't know anywhere near enough. The centuries of research into the biology of the body, and the distance we have come so far is proof of how beautifully complex it really is.
Personally I am always in awe of how stripped down and lean viruses are, and how they sneak in and out of cells, performing a coup de'tat on the way. Our immune system is well-honed to beat this, but Influenza A doesn't give in without a fight!
The result being we either feel really crap for a while, or if unlucky we develop a complication and die.
Well, that is life, That is what happens in life and as yet we don't have an amazing wonder drug to combat it. We have the anti-virals, and we have the anti-microbials to combat any secondary infections,and the physiological support, but that really is about it. The sooner people realise that the better and stop expecting medicine to have the answers for everything and criticise when it doesn't.
I think I should have written "you don't even get the FULL BLOWN flu, OR DIE in the first place... Better?
Actually, vaccines are made using viruses that are either dead or severely damaged so that they can not reproduce. (Wiki).
After that little aside, and returning to the point, I think the time is arriving, swiftly, when much more interaction and cooperation between various disciplines of medicine should be sought.
Hey Presto???? This is the 4th outbreak of this kind this century! Mankind will be soon wandering around on Mars but we have still no great plan to deal with this common pesky virus that keeps appearing every 30 or 40 years! Did we just hope it would not turn up again?
What have we learned about this situation in the past 100 years. Which disciplines of medicine throughout history proved that their methods actually worked against it, lets hear what they have to say, lets work together testing various disciplines for the common good of all.
Throw away attachments to core beliefs from inflexible disciplines and let the mind free for a moment. I am not talking about a handful of hippies preaching about the wonders of oak bark, I am referring to world medicinal belief systems. How different is the Chinese medical approach to that of the western medicine, in comparison to the Indian and African, not to forget South American. Each community has doctors, people who are dedicated to helping others. It's about time some of the walls came down.
Totally agree, a wonder. But would actually like to remain in awe of them a bit longer...I am not that in awe! That's why I am fighting...here now, fighting with words to gather opinions to get conversation started to speed up the process a little bit.
Perhaps it already exists your "wonder drug" (cure), for sure it already exists, why wouldn't it. Is it not our challenge to find out how to overcome this problem, together? We will, you know, its just a question of when and how.
It turns out that swine flu is a bit of a wash-out
Complementary First Aid Kit for H1N1 (BETA)
-Schüssler Salts (3,4,8,11) - http://www.schuesslersalts.com/ (http://www.schuesslersalts.com/)
-Influcid Tablets - Homeopothy. More Info (http://www.12salts.com/product.sc?productId=16&categoryId=1)
-Swedish Bitters - Maria Treben (http://www.swedishbitters.com/story-of-swedish-bitters.html)
-Fern-leaved Biscuit-root (Lomatium dissectum) - Root if Possible and/or tincture
-White Tea (as part of fluid intake)
-Vitamin C - Toxic level (LD50), 11.9 grams per kilogram of body weight when taken orally. 6 grams of ascorbic acid were given to 29 infants, 93 children of preschool and school age, and 20 adults for more than 1400 days. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_C (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_C)
-Black Elder berries
-Goji berries
-Sodium chlorite/MMS - More research
-Chorine dioxide - More research
-Vitamin D
-Garlic
-Relenza
-Tylenol and ibuprofen - more research
-Symmetrel & Flumadine - more research
Interesting Links:
Child Fever - http://healthmad.com/home-health/how-to-bring-a-fever-down-naturally/
Reduce Fever - http://healthmad.com/home-health/how-to-reduce-a-fever/
Notes:
Therefore, aspirin-containing remedies should not be given to children under 15 except on the advice of a doctor.
There are, however, a number of specific anti-influenza agents available on prescription. These include amantadine (Symmetrel) and rimantadine (Flumadine) which work by preventing the virus from shedding its coat inside cells, stopping it from multiplying. These agents can be used to protect at-risk individuals from infections, and are also able to offer limited benefit to sufferers if started within 48 hours of infection. They are, however, only active against influenza A.
It looks like increasing vitamin D intake and adding beta glucan supplements to your diet should decrease your chances of catching any flu. If you do get sick a combination of a COX-2 inhibitor in combination with a H1 Blocker: Benadryl, Claritin or Zyrtec and a H2 Blocker: Tagamet (Cimetidine), Zantac (Ranitidine), or Pepcid (Famotadine) should effectively stop the cytokine storm and the resulting lung damage. Statin drugs seem to stop the cytokine storm also, but I'm uncertain of their mechanism.
Research by; © 2009 Simpleton.
beta glucan supplements to your diet should decrease your chances of catching any flu.
If you do get sick a combination of a COX-2 inhibitor in combination with a H1 Blocker: Benadryl, Claritin or Zyrtec and a H2 Blocker: Tagamet (Cimetidine), Zantac (Ranitidine), or Pepcid (Famotadine) should effectively stop the cytokine storm and the resulting lung damage. Statin drugs seem to stop the cytokine storm also, but I'm uncertain of their mechanism.
The affects of beta glucan in its ability to boost the immune system is still questionable.Need to do more research...agreed.
So Ibuprofen and a good indigestion remedy?! (not for asthmatics obviously)Which is not good for Asthmatics?
indigestion remedyPineapple juice blended with peppermint tea and a small quantity of cinnamon could be a very good remedy for indigestion.
Statins would have too many negative side affects to warrant use.Need to do more research...agreed.
Which is not good for Asthmatics?
Ibuprofen!
Some asthmatics react badly to ibuprofen, asprin or both.
In general, Simpleton, whilst what you're trying to do is in some respects admirable I never the less find it a bit worrying. If something has a curative/protective effect it follows that that effect must be the result of a physiological effect on the body. Anything with effects has side-effects, and whilst deciding to eat a bit more fruit and veg, or even add a little cinnamon to your morning toast, isn't likely to hurt anyone (fruit, veg and cinnamon being things routinely consumed by people in day to day life and so unlikely to cause any very significant negative effect, or it would have been noticed already), I'd want to ask (ideally) an immunologist some pretty searching questions about the likely effects of dosing myself up on anti-histamines before I did so.
I am not entirely comfortable with the idea that someone who doesn't know that ibuprofen is a drug people with asthma are advised to take only under medical advice* is in effect using this forum to publish a list of drugs with the suggestion that people should take them if they contract 'flu, because however much you emphasise that you are only looking for information the above list does look like a suggestion to others.
* No offence meant here... I didn't know about this until a couple of years ago.
Quote
Which is not good for Asthmatics?
As Rosy has pointed out, Ibuprofen, which is one of the most common Cox 2 inhibitors is not good for asthmatics due to it increasing the action/number of leukotrienes. Not all asthmatics are affected by it, I know I am sensitive as I already take a leukotrine blocker.
Zantac (ranatidine) is a popular indigestion remedy.
Quote"The whole is greater than the sum of the individual parts." 1+1=3.
Lets suppose that the first "1" is conventional medicine. The second "1" is complementary... together it produces more worth than when working alone."
this is a science forum so you should realise that if you can't support that you should withdraw it.
anyway, look back to the original question; the title of the thread.
What complementary remedies are there for H1N1.
Well there are lots.
For example I might tell you thatQuotewearing your socks inside-outwill stop you getting it.
I could make up lots more- or I could look up the ones that others have made up.
What would I gain from this?
There are two sorts of remedies- the ones that work and the ones that don't. The ones that don't get called alternative or complimentary.
Since they don't work; who cares what they are?
Do you realise that "modern" herbalists still base their work on things like
"Yarrow was a plant of Venus (this was odd, because most devil's herbs were plants of Saturn) and, as such, was frequently consulted where love matters were concerned. "
and
"Culpepper tells us that:
'Mercury has the dominion of this plant, and therefore to be sure it strengthens the brain.... It stays the hiccough, being boiled in wine, and but smelled unto being tied in a cloth. The seed is of more use than the leaves, and more effectual to digest raw and vicious humours, and is used in medicines that serve to expel wind, and the pains proceeding therefrom...."
Do you really think that such trash based on astrology is worth reading, never mind using as the basis of medicine?
Botanical Astrology
The connection between the celestial skies above and the growth cycles of plants and vegetation below has long been understood and honored through planting and harvesting rituals and documented by Farmer’s Almanacs. A lesser known fact is that the signs and planets of the zodiac are linked to specific herbs, flowers, plants and trees and have been used therapeutically throughout the ages. Below is an at-a-glance list originated by noted 20th century astrologer Alan Leo. Herbs are classified according to planetary influences as follows: http://www.celestiallivingarts.com/astro_herbs.html
There are no doubt real medical uses for some herbs; I have mentioned a few.Great! I could mention many many more...
There are also real side effects associated with herbs.And western medicines...
No shock there- the difference between a drug and a poison is just the dose.In many cases, I agree.
The problem is that there's a lot of rubbish talked about herbs without any basis in fact; they just claim "the ancients said it was right!".Basis in fact? You mean knowledge or science...perhaps there is more grey in this than just your black/white approach...
Well the ancients didn't have a clue about how the body worked or about pharmacology.[::)] Like the Egyptians, The Mayas, The Greeks, The Romans, all clueless... [???]
Most of them thought the Earth was the centre of the universe and that the stars were painted onto glass spheres.They our ancestors.
Are they a reliable source?
Somehow I doubt many people reading this will think so.Perhaps you should start a poll...
I wonder if 1 in 2 doctors have already had the virus.
It seems plausible that a large fraction of them have.
If half of them think they have been exposed already then they would be fools to take, even the smallest risk, and also they would be seen as "greedy" to take it if they don't need it.
BTW, you seem not to hae spotted this question in my last post
"If it seems reasonable to you could you please provide a reason why a bunch of unconnected stars zillions of miles away might have any effect on me as a consequence of the date I was born?"
Please answer it.
Oh, Also, I just wondered; do you plan to set up the poll you suggested earlier?
It sends a very poor message, especially as the article doesn't mention why they wouldn't have the vaccine. This means we can assume that they don't trust it, but we can also assume that they consider themselves healthy and would prefer to see the vaccine going to at risk groups. Sadly, there's so little information there that we can think whatever we like...