The Naked Scientists
Toggle navigation
Login
Register
Podcasts
The Naked Scientists
eLife
Naked Genetics
Naked Astronomy
In short
Naked Neuroscience
Ask! The Naked Scientists
Question of the Week
Archive
Video
SUBSCRIBE to our Podcasts
Articles
Science News
Features
Interviews
Answers to Science Questions
Get Naked
Donate
Do an Experiment
Science Forum
Ask a Question
About
Meet the team
Our Sponsors
Site Map
Contact us
User menu
Login
Register
Search
Home
Help
Search
Tags
Member Map
Recent Topics
Login
Register
Naked Science Forum
On the Lighter Side
New Theories
How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
« previous
next »
Print
Pages:
1
...
50
51
[
52
]
53
54
...
68
Go Down
How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
1346 Replies
356423 Views
0 Tags
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
yor_on
(OP)
Naked Science Forum GOD!
65382
Activity:
100%
Thanked: 177 times
(Ah, yes:) *a table is always good to hide under*
Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
«
Reply #1020 on:
09/07/2014 17:22:59 »
I believe in time, I think it is time that enables intelligence, emotions, dreams and hope. Take that arrow away and nothing will 'exist', at least not as we define a existence. It's time that allows you to have a goal, it allows you to study, it allows your mathematics. Take it away and mathematics won't exist. I think we live in a symmetry break, it has a logic, the logic is describable mathematically. that does not state that mathematics is what the universe is, we don't know what the universe is, nobody does. It's like those 'gurus' that pops up constantly, telling you how life should be lived. Are they immortal then? They better be to have all those answers. And in western democracies we exhange gurus for 'experts', treating them as eastern cultures treat 'gurus'. I like science, and physics, and there one ground rule is that nothing ever is set in stone. It may be true, but only until proven wrong. So forget gurus and experts, keep an open mind instead, and try to decide what your mark will be on this world, before you leave it.
Logged
"BOMB DISPOSAL EXPERT. If you see me running, try to keep up."
yor_on
(OP)
Naked Science Forum GOD!
65382
Activity:
100%
Thanked: 177 times
(Ah, yes:) *a table is always good to hide under*
Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
«
Reply #1021 on:
10/07/2014 00:02:57 »
You know, the world is still a wondrous and marvelous place, if we allow it to be so. We can stop it shrinking, each one can do that, no need of a masters voice. It's like the idea of democracy, a individual vote for what I think is right. Maybe we find, or at least have found, representative democracy the best way, but maybe it's time to take another step. You can't compare what you have against what's worse, and then state yourself satisfied. There is always a need to move forward, to do it better. That is complexity's demands to me, and it's more spiritual than anything else I know of.
Because we have moved forward, all of us have. The dark ages are mostly behind us, unless we throw ourselves into some new war of course. I sincerely hope we can avoid that. Think of a country littered with Fukushima's to see why.
Logged
"BOMB DISPOSAL EXPERT. If you see me running, try to keep up."
yor_on
(OP)
Naked Science Forum GOD!
65382
Activity:
100%
Thanked: 177 times
(Ah, yes:) *a table is always good to hide under*
Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
«
Reply #1022 on:
10/07/2014 18:19:34 »
Let's talk about Russia for a second or two, but first I would like you to read
Tightness and Looseness.
. Would you agree on this one?
Let us assume that they are, generally speaking, on the right track. Then apply it on Russia's. They've lost, or given up, their former empire, to find themselves surrounded by new EEC states, that furthermore also want to join NATO. Sweden take all Internet traffic, 80 % of it goes through us, bundle it up wholesale, and ship it to UK and the States.
Would you define Russia as a 'loose' or 'tight' Country?
What happens when such a Country starts to feel 'pressed in'?
How would USA behave if it was placed in this kind of situation?
How did it behave at the Cuba crisis?
(Disregarding Russia point of view here, this whole new technique of collecting all information there is, from the Internet and mobile phones etc, to store it indefinitely, until needed. It's no longer a conventional 'targeting intelligence', unless you want to consider us all targets, for your whole life.)
Logged
"BOMB DISPOSAL EXPERT. If you see me running, try to keep up."
yor_on
(OP)
Naked Science Forum GOD!
65382
Activity:
100%
Thanked: 177 times
(Ah, yes:) *a table is always good to hide under*
Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
«
Reply #1023 on:
10/07/2014 18:35:43 »
The question above has nothing to do with what ideals one might have of a world order. Solely with people. I better repeat it
it's not about whether Russia, as a 'democratic country', should be treated one way or another. It's about putting someone under pressure, and the question of if it is the right way to go.
Logged
"BOMB DISPOSAL EXPERT. If you see me running, try to keep up."
yor_on
(OP)
Naked Science Forum GOD!
65382
Activity:
100%
Thanked: 177 times
(Ah, yes:) *a table is always good to hide under*
Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
«
Reply #1024 on:
10/07/2014 18:53:39 »
What happens when such a Country starts to feel 'pressed in'? That I think has (at the very least) two sides to it, what happens internally, with those citizens not toeing the official line? And what happens externally, the relations to neighboring states? To that you can add what possibilities of pressure Russia can apply, economic as with their pipelines of natural gas etc, as well as military.
Let us assume Europe free itself from its dependencies of Russian delivery's here. How will that be looked at internally from Russia side? Will it diminish the pressure they think themselves under, or will it increase it? Free trade, when working, is a good thing. Using it for political blackmail will backfire, sooner or later.
Logged
"BOMB DISPOSAL EXPERT. If you see me running, try to keep up."
yor_on
(OP)
Naked Science Forum GOD!
65382
Activity:
100%
Thanked: 177 times
(Ah, yes:) *a table is always good to hide under*
Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
«
Reply #1025 on:
12/07/2014 01:29:07 »
Assume that space expands in every point, gravity acting as buoys (with matter) keeping the solar system together. How does that fit with the notion of old light? It's simple, thinking of it for a while, but still got me momentarily confused. When we look out on the universe we don't see what 'is', we're seeing what 'has been'. So what you see is related to the distance of the source. But a inflation and expansion actually supports my definition of time, locally equivalent to 'c'. Because you have it happening (evolving) in each point, locally defined at a 'same time', everywhere.
so distance gives us our possibility to look 'backward in time'. And so it, to me that is
also makes it plausible that as there is no center, you equivalently should be able to state that everywhere is a center. You are the center of what you observe, and you will see the same wherever you go. So, leaving for the suburbs of our visible universe you should find the exact same vista as you do here. A 'infinite' universe, all around you.
the second one relates to what I wrote about conservation of energy, and with it all conservation laws I presume? With a assumed entropy, how can there be no cost to it? Something must be lost if you assume a direction. We call it useful energy transforming into non useful energy as I understand. But generally thinking I can't see any process with a defined behavior in time, that hasn't some sort of cost associated with it?
So, what is the cost here? Assume that time is connected to processes, interactions. Does all interactions stop as entropy dissolve, equals out, a universe? What about the uncertainty principle? Does that disappear?
If there are no outcomes?
=
Need to learn how to spell, and not to mix Swedish words with English, at some time
Not today though.
«
Last Edit: 12/07/2014 03:09:18 by yor_on
»
Logged
"BOMB DISPOSAL EXPERT. If you see me running, try to keep up."
yor_on
(OP)
Naked Science Forum GOD!
65382
Activity:
100%
Thanked: 177 times
(Ah, yes:) *a table is always good to hide under*
Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
«
Reply #1026 on:
12/07/2014 01:36:23 »
Looked at this way, it's all local. All your definitions are local. And locally is what gives you your constants. And those constants creates a universe interacting in time. But I still don't see what connects frames of reference? It would be preferable with a simpler universe, like a box
in where we can place ourselves, but that isn't what expansion and inflation states.
Logged
"BOMB DISPOSAL EXPERT. If you see me running, try to keep up."
yor_on
(OP)
Naked Science Forum GOD!
65382
Activity:
100%
Thanked: 177 times
(Ah, yes:) *a table is always good to hide under*
Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
«
Reply #1027 on:
12/07/2014 01:41:23 »
Can you see why I don't like the idea of a vacuum as 'energy' here? I don't think it fit.
Logged
"BOMB DISPOSAL EXPERT. If you see me running, try to keep up."
yor_on
(OP)
Naked Science Forum GOD!
65382
Activity:
100%
Thanked: 177 times
(Ah, yes:) *a table is always good to hide under*
Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
«
Reply #1028 on:
12/07/2014 01:48:26 »
Ideas trying to define a equilibrium are also ideas involving a 'container universe' to me. Although the container here is very vague it still exist in such descriptions, but to me inflation and expansion must question it. It becomes very tricky understanding how a equilibrium can exist in a expanding universe, unless you either assume a 'outside' of some sort interacting in some unknown way with our universe, alternatively assume that a expansion somehow 'lends' from this very vaguely described container model of a universe.
Logged
"BOMB DISPOSAL EXPERT. If you see me running, try to keep up."
yor_on
(OP)
Naked Science Forum GOD!
65382
Activity:
100%
Thanked: 177 times
(Ah, yes:) *a table is always good to hide under*
Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
«
Reply #1029 on:
12/07/2014 01:51:12 »
so what can we come up with? Assuming that the conservation laws are correct?
A holographic universe? A universe of information? What do we have left if we throw away all ideas of a container?
Logged
"BOMB DISPOSAL EXPERT. If you see me running, try to keep up."
yor_on
(OP)
Naked Science Forum GOD!
65382
Activity:
100%
Thanked: 177 times
(Ah, yes:) *a table is always good to hide under*
Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
«
Reply #1030 on:
12/07/2014 01:55:42 »
I don't really know. I know that I consider this a symmetry break, and also as a projection. But I do not assume a outside. If there is one it I think will have to be defined as co-existing with us in each point, or avoiding that, just call it 'everywhere'. A symmetry break because we have a direction, we find all sorts of directions
and a projection because the only definitions making sense to me are local, including constants. That makes what connects frames of reference the most intriguing, and confusing, thing I can think of.
Logged
"BOMB DISPOSAL EXPERT. If you see me running, try to keep up."
yor_on
(OP)
Naked Science Forum GOD!
65382
Activity:
100%
Thanked: 177 times
(Ah, yes:) *a table is always good to hide under*
Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
«
Reply #1031 on:
12/07/2014 02:11:49 »
What you do when you throw away the container is also to question what dimensions should be seen as. Because any dimension builds on the assumption of us being to define at least some sort of 'area/extension' for it, doesn't it? String theory defines a one dimensional string this way "A string is a one-dimensional object, meaning that if you want to travel along a string, you can only go forwards or backwards in the direction of the string, there is no sideways or up and down on a string."
Well, as soon as I can move on it I will presume it to extend in some direction, if not area then at least a 'space' to move in. And you need it to extend to get all those different models, of strings, loops, and branes. Or that description may be wrong, I'm not sure how a string, or loop, theorist imagine it.
but I do like the idea of some sort of first building blocks, although if we think of the uncertainty principle and indeterminism, it also seem to become a result of frames of reference interacting, creating this reality we live in. Decoherence, as QM speculates about.
also, any extension measured must be a result of a time involved.
Logged
"BOMB DISPOSAL EXPERT. If you see me running, try to keep up."
yor_on
(OP)
Naked Science Forum GOD!
65382
Activity:
100%
Thanked: 177 times
(Ah, yes:) *a table is always good to hide under*
Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
«
Reply #1032 on:
12/07/2014 02:23:28 »
I don't think you need description 'limiting' the infinity of this universe. No need to walk out to the right to come in to the left. Better to use the idea of a real infinity, you being the center of this universe. The center is just a concept, a complex focus point consisting of 'you' observing the universe around you. Because 'you' is more than the sum of your parts. You are the thoughts, the mind, the focus that observe, and measure. It's exactly like the idea of a proper time existing. That proper time we refer to exist for each one of us, equivalently so. But you can't define it to some 'point' in this four dimensional universe we find. It's like decoherence, it comes to be as a focus.
Logged
"BOMB DISPOSAL EXPERT. If you see me running, try to keep up."
yor_on
(OP)
Naked Science Forum GOD!
65382
Activity:
100%
Thanked: 177 times
(Ah, yes:) *a table is always good to hide under*
Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
«
Reply #1033 on:
12/07/2014 02:25:10 »
It's all about complexity, isn't it?
Logged
"BOMB DISPOSAL EXPERT. If you see me running, try to keep up."
yor_on
(OP)
Naked Science Forum GOD!
65382
Activity:
100%
Thanked: 177 times
(Ah, yes:) *a table is always good to hide under*
Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
«
Reply #1034 on:
12/07/2014 02:30:13 »
Alternatively you can think of a proper time as something existing in all points, locally defined. And that one is about whether there exist a discreteness to this universe. If it does, then the question becomes if that is a end to it, or if it is a duality of sorts with what I call a 'flow'. We have a way to look at it, the way inwards, magnifying. And when we do I think we see a duality there too. What some call a field.
Logged
"BOMB DISPOSAL EXPERT. If you see me running, try to keep up."
yor_on
(OP)
Naked Science Forum GOD!
65382
Activity:
100%
Thanked: 177 times
(Ah, yes:) *a table is always good to hide under*
Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
«
Reply #1035 on:
12/07/2014 02:36:26 »
It's a weird concept
You are more than the sum of your parts, consciousness add something. But so is your proper time. And there is a discreteness, as I think, but that one is also part of a flow. I'm slightly starting to understand the old lady who thought Earth rested on a elephant. "It's elephants the whole way down, my young man.'
Well?
Logged
"BOMB DISPOSAL EXPERT. If you see me running, try to keep up."
yor_on
(OP)
Naked Science Forum GOD!
65382
Activity:
100%
Thanked: 177 times
(Ah, yes:) *a table is always good to hide under*
Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
«
Reply #1036 on:
12/07/2014 02:44:24 »
So what have I against a field? I don't like container models, that's about it. Give me a way to think of a universe consisting of a observer dependent field, able to be measured differently by different observers, without giving it limits. Otherwise I like it a lot.
Logged
"BOMB DISPOSAL EXPERT. If you see me running, try to keep up."
yor_on
(OP)
Naked Science Forum GOD!
65382
Activity:
100%
Thanked: 177 times
(Ah, yes:) *a table is always good to hide under*
Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
«
Reply #1037 on:
12/07/2014 02:48:49 »
As I see it then, a field is what you should get as frames of reference interact, locally defined.
Logged
"BOMB DISPOSAL EXPERT. If you see me running, try to keep up."
yor_on
(OP)
Naked Science Forum GOD!
65382
Activity:
100%
Thanked: 177 times
(Ah, yes:) *a table is always good to hide under*
Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
«
Reply #1038 on:
12/07/2014 02:54:57 »
Think of a expansion again. Assume it to happen in each point. Can you see yourself falling in? Do you expect it to have an end?
Logged
"BOMB DISPOSAL EXPERT. If you see me running, try to keep up."
yor_on
(OP)
Naked Science Forum GOD!
65382
Activity:
100%
Thanked: 177 times
(Ah, yes:) *a table is always good to hide under*
Re: How does a 'field' become observer dependent?
«
Reply #1039 on:
12/07/2014 02:57:15 »
Is that a direction?
What about a perfect sphere of (even density) matter in a flat space.
Which way points gravity?
«
Last Edit: 12/07/2014 03:12:36 by yor_on
»
Logged
"BOMB DISPOSAL EXPERT. If you see me running, try to keep up."
Print
Pages:
1
...
50
51
[
52
]
53
54
...
68
Go Up
« previous
next »
Tags:
There was an error while thanking
Thanking...