Naked Science Forum
Life Sciences => Physiology & Medicine => Topic started by: Tyson Vaughan on 19/08/2005 17:27:56
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As a consumer of a fair amount of fish (i live in Japan, BTW), including plenty of tuna, I am concerned about mercury toxicity. I have lots of questions relating to this.
First I should qualify, I suspect that I don't really eat enough fish to poison myself too badly. I know people who eat a lot more than I do, and they seem fine. Nevertheless, every time I'm at a sushi bar I hear a little voice that whispers, "You are now eating something that almost definitely contains nontrivial quantities of mercury. I said <i>mercury</i>, you fool!"
So anyway, to what extent should I pay attention to that voice? What, if anything, should I do about mercury intake? Should I get tested, just to get an idea of much is actually in my body? What symptoms should I be on the lookout for?
If I want to reduce the level of mercury in my body, how can I do that? Should I simply reduce my fish intake? Are there any guidelines for safe fish consumption (e.g. 15 grams of tuna/day, 40 grams of salmon, etc.)? I have heard that certain foods such as cilantro and chlorella can help accelerate this process. Is that true? How long does mercury normally hang around in the body, anyway?
I've heard that the amount of mercury in a typical flu shot is pretty extreme. Is this true? Does this mean relatively healthy people should avoid flu vaccinations?
Apparently a lot of people -- particularly parents concerned about autism and mercury poisoning from vaccines -- have become fixated with chelation as a technique to flush out heavy metals, but I've heard that this is a fairly involved and dangerous procedure, and suspect it's often used inappropriately. (Though I have no idea what it actually entials.)
Last two questions: is there any evidence that cooking (or not cooking) fish attenuates the quantity or toxicity of mercury? And, does the part of the fish matter? I mean, I <i>looooove</i> toro, which is from the fatty belly of the tuna, and I figure that mercury probably collects in the fatty tissues, so I might be getting a bigger dose of it from toro than from maguro (regular tuna).
I was going to ask for your opinions on the whole vaccine/mercury toxicity/autism debate, but I think I'll leave that for another time. I've probably already exceeded my interrogative allotment for the week, and I can't imagine you have time to answer them all, as it is.
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Drink lots of beetroot juice mixed with carrot juice, eat a good amount of fenugreek seeds with your food and also cook curries of banana stem, flowers and raw bananas; and dring banana stem juice to rid of the excess mercury in the system. In this way, you can also enjoy eating fish all the time.
Helping people to realize their souls/ spirits, meditate by teaching them meditation free of cost
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It's possible to measure the amount of mercury in the body if you are really concerned; ask your doctor about it.
There's already a thread about the suggestion that autism and vaccination are related.
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=13710.0
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What you should do is to start eating wild caught fish.Wild caught means that it is from pure water that is mercury free.I personally don't even eat wild caught fish because I don't have full trust in any company.I have severe ADD and many other health problems due to vaccines and silver fillings in my teeth.Chelation is safe.Many kids have already fully recovered from Autism with chelation.If you want info about how to treat mercury toxicity then go to http://www.generationrescue.org/. Chelation is the best way to treat it.Here are ways to chelate.
1)Andy Cutler method-Read the book Amalgam Illness
2)Oxidative Stress Relief(OSR)-You can order it here http://www.totalmouthfitness.com/
3)IV chelation with DMPS is another option.
YOU CAN TEST FOR MECURY TOXICITY WITH
1)DMPS CHALLENGE
2)A porphyrins test-order here http://www.labbio.net/ Make sure you refrigerate your urine till the postal guy picks it up.Keep an ice pack with the specimen and send the specimen with overnight delivery.
3)Hair mineral test
Each one of the methods for testing has advantages and disadvantages so you need to use all the tests.If the mercury doesn't show on the hair mineral test you need to chelate for a few months, and then get another hair mineral test.The hair test tests for what is being excreted.Take replacement minerals on the days you are not chelating.I would go with OSR because it's very convenient to take.Its just very small amount of powder once a day.
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Please supply evidence for this statement "Many kids have already fully recovered from Autism with chelation".
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Dr. Neubrander talks about methyl b12 in rocovering Autistics.Methyl b12 is related to chelation in that it is involved in the detoxification of mercury, but is also involved in other thing like synthesizing neurotransmitters.
Rashid buttar did a little study with about 22 kids and he had fully recovered all of them.Dr. Buttar fully rocovered his own son who testified in front of congress about this issue.
http://www.generationrescue.org/
Their are some testimonies on this site
Their are testimonies all over the internet.Their are studies showing that vaccines are a major cause of Autism on generationrescue and Autism.com, but for every real study their are ten fake studies funded by the pharmaceutical companies.The best thing to do is go to a Defeat Autism Now conference.Visit the medical clinics and speak with the recovered kids.My ADD has improved with these treatments.
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So, no real evidence; just an accusation of dishonesty and single anecdote from someone who has not just one, but two axes to grind.
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Oh great another dumb animal on the internet.Yeah,I guess several hundred doctors rocovering thousands and thousands of people isn't evidence.I guess real studies funded by doctors that cure people isn't evidence. We need a study in one of these pharma journals right? Do the world a favor and go jump off a building.
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<moderators hat>That's an inappropriate response, and I'll thank you not to be so rude on the forum.</moderators hat>
Bored Chemist holds claims like 'chelation cures autism' up to a high standard of evidence, as he should and as should we all. Autism is a fantastically complicated spectrum of disorders, and there is no evidence that it's related to the presence of heavy metals. In fact, from an epidemiological view point, there's evidence against it. If you would care to search wikipedia for chelation therapy, it will provide links to several papers explaining this evidence.
As such, I think he is quite right to expect data to be published in a peer-reviewed journal, rather than anecdotal testament on the internet. Simply put. we must rely on solid, repeatable, reliable evidence to inform our decisions. Thousands of people drink in excess and smoke all their lives, and go on to live to a relatively healthy old age - this doesn't mean we should take their anecdotal evidence and start smoking and drinking.
Furthermore, the scare tactics of people who are against vaccines are now leading to outbreaks of illness that pose a far greater threat than the small likelihood of having autism.
I'm sorry to see that you have fallen into the 'Pharma companies are bad and evil' mindset. They're not - and they're very well regulated. I'm not saying that they're perfect, and certainly there will be unethical people at pharma companies as there are at any other company, but their regulation makes them accountable. I think it's easy for people to forget that pharma companies are run and staffed by ordinary people, people who got into pharma to try to help make a difference, people who wouldn't dream of faking data to keep sales up. I'm far more wary of alternative medicine - they have very little regulation and every bit as much to gain from you staying ill. They also don't push vast amounts of their profits back into developing new treatments. Again, the vast majority of people in the alternative medicine industry are there for the right reasons, but there are just as many unethical people as there are in pharma.
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Takeshi Shimura
Yeah,I guess several hundred doctors rocovering thousands and thousands of people isn't evidence.I guess real studies funded by doctors that cure people isn't evidence.
I'm sure you could look on the internet and find a lot of other 'treatments' which are claimed to work but which you, personally, find unbelievable.
I don't believe that Pharma companies are above reproach - they make vast amounts of money (I should say "excessive") for their execs and sales force. (The actual 'brains' behind the developments are not paid so fantastically well). To be totally honest about a product that could earn you that sort of money would be very hard / impossible; there will always be over optimism and exploitation. As for regulating bodies, they often can't see the wood for the trees and are far too strongly influenced by governments who have their own agendas.
However, there is no better way to be sure about the efficacy of a treatment than by very large scale trials, preferably funded by a totally disinterested organisation. Anecdotal evidence from evangelists is as much suspect as evidence and reassurances from big companies with shareholders.
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Patients with autism are not that rare. Chelation therapy is not particularly hazardous or difficult; it's also cheap.
Setting up a double blind trial would be within the resources of any large hospital.
They are unlikelty to do this because the idea that chelation works depends on accepting two ideas; firstly that mercury causes autism. secondly that removing the mercury will treat the disease.
Plenty of measurements have cast major doubt on the link between mercury and autism. Essentially there's no link.
Also, in much the same way that if I damaged someone,s brain with a pick axe, it wouldd take more than the removal of the axe to restore brain function, there is a serious doubt that removing mercury could reverse the damage it might have caused.
If there were a reasonable chance of success then someone would do the research. The pharmaceuticals industry might not be interested. It's never going to make a lot of money selling EDTA.
But the health service (In the UK) and the health insurers (in the US) are perfectly cpapble of stepping in and running the study. They would stand to save a huge sum of money in the long run so they would love to treat this disease.
The only reason I can think of for the lack of a double blind study showing a benefit from chelation therapy in autistic patients is that the stuff simply doesn't work.
I guess I should also point out that I don't consider name calling, or an invitation to jump off a building, a particularly convincing argument. Frankly, it seems childish.
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I guess I should also point out that I don't consider name calling, or an invitation to jump off a building, a particularly convincing argument. Frankly, it seems childish.
I agree. If you can't insult someone in a more inventive way - and it can be fun, remember - then don't try. It makes you look dumb and you may well not be.
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I'm not here to be inventive or to call anyone names for the hell of it. How has that become the focus? I'm not telling you to jump off a building for the hell of it. I'm telling you that your foolishness is going to hurt innocent people by confusing them and the world would be better without people like you.
Talking about studies is an utter waste of time. Like I said before, for every real study, their are many fake studies. All that matters is that kids getting the treatment are recovering. Anyone who wants
proof can go to the clinics and conferences and meet plenty of people who have recovered. They can analyze tests which show heavy metals being excreted and concurrent impovement in symptoms. You ignoring someone like me who is living through this whole ordeal shows me you are either a simpleton that shouldn't be commenting or a liar who is concerned with winning an argument.
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Sophie, I take no pleasure in insulting people. Even though "dumb animal" is an insult, I'm using that phrase to describe his problem and why he shouldn't be commenting on such a serious issue. He doesn't have the ability to function at the level of an intelligent human being.He doesn't have the basic ability to understand that what a patient says, and in this case, what a large number of patients have to say, is the most relevant thing.
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I'm with Takeshi on this one.
Are we expected to come in here trying to contribute to the discussions and giving info which may help others only to be provoked with a meaningless but hostile statement such as this:
So, no real evidence; just an accusation of dishonesty and single anecdote from someone who has not just one, but two axes to grind.
So it's all right to dismiss others' posts by making a needlessly provocative comment (I fail to see the usefulness or 'contribution' of the above quote) but not okay to tell someone who initiated the provocation what you think of him?
I guess the name 'Bored chemist' says it all.
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I'm not here to be inventive or to call anyone names for the hell of it. How has that become the focus? I'm not telling you to jump off a building for the hell of it. I'm telling you that your foolishness is going to hurt innocent people by confusing them and the world would be better without people like you.
Talking about studies is an utter waste of time. Like I said before, for every real study, their are many fake studies. All that matters is that kids getting the treatment are recovering. Anyone who wants
proof can go to the clinics and conferences and meet plenty of people who have recovered. They can analyze tests which show heavy metals being excreted and concurrent impovement in symptoms. You ignoring someone like me who is living through this whole ordeal shows me you are either a simpleton that shouldn't be commenting or a liar who is concerned with winning an argument.
Since I'm not ignoring you, your assertion doesn't make sense.
Your decision to call me a liar or a foofl, based on that assertion also doesn't make sense.
Perhaps you would care to produce some evidence for "but for every real study their are ten fake studies funded by the pharmaceutical companies"
If you can't do that then my claim that all you presented was hearsy and a claim of disshonesty seems to be corret.