Naked Science Forum
Non Life Sciences => Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology => Topic started by: pastiinget on 06/03/2009 03:41:50
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for anyone that have lots of knowledge about electromagnet please pleaseee helppp me.
please tell me all the possible material for electromagnetic core beside iron or anything that have fe atom in it, most preferably a non metalic base material
for example is it possible to make electromagnet using carbon as the core?
or the very least any material that dont attract magnetic webber so much, like aluminum and please dont say gold cost its wayy to expensive most preferably is cheap material that are not iron or even metalic.
before and affter THANKS ALOT
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Someone may take the time to compile a list; but I suspect that if you're into building an electromagnet, the cheapest core to use would be iron. Some other elements or compounds may provide better results, but will be more expensive.
This article (http://www.irm.umn.edu/hg2m/hg2m_b/hg2m_b.html) offers some insight into the classes of magnetic materials.
The origin of magnetism lies in the orbital and spin motions of electrons and how the electrons interact with one another. The best way to introduce the different types of magnetism is to describe how materials respond to magnetic fields. This may be surprising to some, but all matter is magnetic. It's just that some materials are much more magnetic than others. The main distinction is that in some materials there is no collective interaction of atomic magnetic moments, whereas in other materials there is a very strong interaction between atomic moments.
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yes im trying to build an electromagnet but for a reason (that would be to long to explain) the core it self must be made bye a material that are not attract to much webber or even if possible not attract or interact with webber at all
and if its more costly than simple iron, its still ok as long as its as not to expensive (silver above its all ready way to expensive) so please help me
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What is webber?
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Maybe he/she means webbing? [???]
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http://www.dansdata.com/magnets.htm
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webber is what in Indonesia call for magnetic field unit. is it different in english?
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but what i really need is (forgive me if my request isn't clear before) something that can be used as a core for electromagnetic, but the material must not be made whit iron or anything that have fe atom in it, in fact if possible i want something that are not metallic base material, if that not possible than any metal or alloy that have very low capacity to be affected by magnet field is still okay as long as it can be made as electromagnetic core and not to expensive (silver is all ready to expensive)
the point is not the electromagnetic power that i aim for, in fact even if it can only make a very weak electromagnet is fine not a problem at all, as long as the core is made by something that have very poor receptive to magnet field or if possible not affected by magnetic field at all
before and after thank you very much
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Look here.
http://www.magnetweb.com/
"Sm2Co17 and SmCo5 are the most
renowned classes, where iron does not play
a major role in permanent magnetism."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samarium-cobalt_magnet
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Okay; I think I see what you're getting at. You want to make an electromagnet using a core that is not subject to magnetism. I'm not sure you can do better than air. A simple coil will produce an electromagnetic field; adding a ferrite core increases the strength of the magnetic field.
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yes just coil can make electromagnetic, but to my previous experiment the webber is to chaotic and not really usable so i think i still need a core any way to make the webber direction more fokus, but thanks alot for the input, u guys are rally great helping a nobody like me
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I think you're attempting to focus the magnetic field. That might could be done but I think you will need more than one coil; maybe a ring of coils with a focus to the centre.
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ring of coil? a pure ring of coil, oke i think i will try that, just to be clear, do you meant beside the primary ring of coil i should insert more coil inside the the primary? or just add more number to the coil twist? (just to be more clear i making the electromagnet with diameter over 3 cm, so with out a core there will be a huge hole, since i only used 12 volt 1 ampere battery) by the way we are talking about a copper base coil right?
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I meant several coils side to side in a circle with their holes pointing toward the centre of the circle. I don't know if that would work, but it might concentrate the lines for force so that there is a focal point. You might could test it with iron filings to see if you can get something that looks like a concentrated grouping.
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from the 8th paragraph:
Such materials could have a variety of applications because of their unusual physical and magnetic properties, Thompson said. They are "soft" magnetically, meaning that it's very easy to change the magnetic orientation of the material. This is a highly desirable characteristic for the cores of transformers, for example, which must switch their magnetic orientation dozens of times per second. Transformers made from metallic glasses could potentially greatly reduce the amount of electricity wasted as excess heat in conventional transformers, reducing the need for new generating plants.
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2008/metallic-glass-1218.html (http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2008/metallic-glass-1218.html)
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What do you mean by "focussing" a magnetic field.
A do you
A. wish to create a particularly strong absolute field
B. wish to create a particularly strong field gradient
C wish to be able to change the field very rapidly
If you want to do
A a soft magnetic material (iron) core will work best and you should use a toroidal magnet with a gap in it you cannot "focus" the field beyond this.
For B you will need to use a gap in a toroidal magnetic field and a shaped pole piece this does focus the field gradient to be strongest near the peak.
In case C air cores are best because ferromagnetic materials are slow to react to changes in field.
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the main purpose is to make electromagnet that block magnetic field of a natural magnet in a specific area only, so the electromagnet must not be made with something that attract magnet or at lease have very little magnet influence capacity.
since the best way to block magnet field is to counter the the pole with the same pole ( U to U or S to S ), or is there any other way to block natural magnet field completely beside using the same pole direction?
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Magnetic fields cannot be completely blocked. One of the normal ways of doing this is to surround the area with a shell of high permeability material like mu metal this then deflects any stray fields thorough itself and reduces the field level inside. Helmholtz coils QV are used to cancel out stray magnetic fields for magnetically susceptible experiments
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An electromagnet need not have a core. You can use air, though this means the electromagnet won't be as strong.
As Soul Surfer has mentioned, one configuration of such a system is a Helmholtz coil pair.
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Well you can go either way: either use core or dont, as for core it really is a booster in the electromagnet, what it does is to gather the change of electrons and condence it, focus it. As such, any material with metallic properities can be used, even permanent magnets.
in fact, you can use electromagnetism to turn off the permanent magnet.
But for your guestion, you could use a spring coil as a magnet core and wrap isolated copperwire around it, creating a electromagnet. As long as the material is conductive as the core, it will create electromagnetic field. Copper (actually better conductivity than gold), nonstainless steel (specially one thats marked 1010 steel), aluminium, bronze.... get the full list at http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?151197-Electrical-conductivity-of-metals (http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?151197-Electrical-conductivity-of-metals)
as long as you dont use glass as a core, you should be ok, coiled wire itself can make electromagnet, tho weaker than solid metal core one. the core does not need to be a block or rod either, you can do laydenic kind of magnet by this way: wrap insulated wire around spring coil that is made of copper, insert a NON conductive material pipe through it (like rubber pipe). At the end of the spring you put it through the pipe, and this acts as your ground wire, goes to - at battery. close the circuit. Ofc, i am not going to tell you how to build the circuitry, But now what you got is a core only at selected lenght at position where you want it.
In computer components, especially at capasitors, they use copper wires wrapped around horseshoe like rings. The magnetic force is at peak at the point, where these horseshoes ends almost meet. This causes electromagnet to be more directional. ofc, eletromagnet is strongest at the point of cores point.
Other way is to build a circuit, that has a capasitor on it (like used in cameras, disposable cameras are good source for the parts. This allows you to build burst electro magnets: surges provide most powerfull blasts of magnetism. Higher power = more magnetism, IF allowed by conductivity of the wire.
So, if you want to lower the magnetism, you may want to:
1. lower the current by limiting the battery power or conductivity through circuit (anode)
2. use nonconductive core
also you can make nonferrous electromagnet:
instructions can be found here: http://www.ehow.com/how_7902302_do-make-non-ferrous-electromagnet.html (http://www.ehow.com/how_7902302_do-make-non-ferrous-electromagnet.html)
Anyways, hope this was any helpfull for you?
Things you want to think while building the magnet.
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for anyone that have lots of knowledge about electromagnet please pleaseee helppp me.
It's been years since I've studied the properties of electromagnetic core materials so this is not off the top of my head. Have you checked http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_core#Magnetic_core_materials ?
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the main purpose is to make electromagnet that block magnetic field of a natural magnet in a specific area only, so the electromagnet must not be made with something that attract magnet or at lease have very little magnet influence capacity.
since the best way to block magnet field is to counter the the pole with the same pole ( U to U or S to S ), or is there any other way to block natural magnet field completely beside using the same pole direction?
There's no way you can have two magnetic fields interact with each other without having the sources of those fields interact with each other too. If you use one magnet and orient it such that it cancels out the field of another magnet in any spot, there will also be a force between the two objects pulling them together (same thing if you orient them to augment the magnetic field somewhere, but now the force will push them apart)