Naked Science Forum
Life Sciences => Physiology & Medicine => Topic started by: neilep on 15/10/2012 05:39:15
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To keep it science based perhaps an explanation of what nitrazepam is, and what it does would also be helpful.
Please note, it's me who's asking...so please try and keep answers in layman's terms if possible !
ta
neil
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the ironically named “NHS choices” has patient info on Nitrazepam ...
http://www.nhs.uk/medicine-guides/pages/MedicineOverview.aspx?condition=Insomnia&medicine=nitrazepam&preparationNitrazepam%205mg%20tablets
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35 years !!........too long .......what a mess !!
thanksRD
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It's a benzodiazepine, so should not be stopped suddenly, (particularly after 35 years!), because of potentially very serious withdrawal symptoms ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzodiazepine_withdrawal_syndrome
Tolerance to the sleep inducing effects of nitrazepam occurs after about seven days ... A benzodiazepine dependence can develop with a benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome occurring when the drug is stopped or the dose lowered
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrazepam#Tolerance_dependence_and_withdrawal
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Thanks RD.
Time to visit my GP...
You would have thought they'd be even a little pro-active with regard to the prescribing. !
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Benzo drugs are often over prescribed. Like any benzo it acts on the gaba receptors in the brain and by taking them you reduce the natural stimulation of gaba receptors. The result is an increase in anxiety and tolerance to benzo drugs that cannot be overcome with higher dosing. These drugs are terrible for you and have been shown to increase the symptoms for which the drug was administered. I advise no one to take these drugs regularly and sudden withdrawal can result in seizures. These tendencies towards negative outcome are shown in countless studies. I honestly believe it is insane how many scripts are given out for these in the US. The reason for this is profit driven pharma and pharma reps. Benzos can ruin your life and I have actually seen them cause terrible side effects in patients. This topic is probably one I know more about than any other pharmaceuticals.
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Benzo drugs are often over prescribed. Like any benzo it acts on the gaba receptors in the brain and by taking them you reduce the natural stimulation of gaba receptors. The result is an increase in anxiety and tolerance to benzo drugs that cannot be overcome with higher dosing. These drugs are terrible for you and have been shown to increase the symptoms for which the drug was administered. I advise no one to take these drugs regularly and sudden withdrawal can result in seizures. These tendencies towards negative outcome are shown in countless studies. I honestly believe it is insane how many scripts are given out for these in the US. The reason for this is profit driven pharma and pharma reps. Benzos can ruin your life and I have actually seen them cause terrible side effects in patients. This topic is probably one I know more about than any other pharmaceuticals.
Gosh !!...Phew !! Thank you BioChemSFC
Can I just run through my dosage regime: Quantities and frequency change because of my shifts which either start at 7am or Noon:
15mg up to three or four 4 times a week followed by a day off where I take none..Then 5 to 10mg for a further three of four times a week. I then may have two days off work which I will take none.
When I am on holiday from work I cease taking them altogether......so, if I'm off work for two weeks then I will not take them at all. It's complicated. Only when I need to force myself to sleep for work the next day do I take them. When I'm on break I'm happy to just be casual with my insomnia....No pressure to work the next day you see !
What you have described above is a wake-up call (no pun intended)........
Do you know of an alternative that I can suggest to my GP as something else to try ?...and ....though I realise i must seek authority from my GP what do you think would be a reasonable withdraw regime ?
THANK YOU
ps: occasionally, but for many years.... I do get shooting pains in the head which lasts just a second or two...I have not recorded if it's during breaks from the drug or not or even if it has anything to do with it at all !
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What does a GABA receptor do ?
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Just made an appt with my GP to discuss terms for withdrawal !!
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I would also agree that long-term use of benzodiazepine drugs is probably not a good idea.
Many drugs can cause a rebound effect. So, after using the benzodiazepines for years, miss a few doses, and you likely will have some uncomfortable sleepless nights.
I would certainly suggest practising good "sleep hygiene", including setting a bedtime/wakeup schedule. No naps. Keep away from caffeine and nicotine (including avoiding decaf coffee which isn't entirely decaf). Perhaps dim lights, and soothing evening activities. Sorry, no midnight Rambo episodes. Find some activity that just puts you to sleep. Do you have any old history textbooks laying around?
Melatonin has been touted as a natural drug that can aid with insomnia, but perhaps not very powerful.
Trazodone is an antidepressant that some people have found also works as a sleep aid, often considered to have minimal side-effects. You might discuss it with your physician.
I would avoid benadryl and dramamine and related drugs as sleep aids.
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I would also agree that long-term use of benzodiazepine drugs is probably not a good idea.
Many drugs can cause a rebound effect. So, after using the benzodiazepines for years, miss a few doses, and you likely will have some uncomfortable sleepless nights.
I would certainly suggest practising good "sleep hygiene", including setting a bedtime/wakeup schedule. No naps. Keep away from caffeine and nicotine (including avoiding decaf coffee which isn't entirely decaf). Perhaps dim lights, and soothing evening activities. Sorry, no midnight Rambo episodes. Find some activity that just puts you to sleep. Do you have any old history textbooks laying around?
Melatonin has been touted as a natural drug that can aid with insomnia, but perhaps not very powerful.
Trazodone is an antidepressant that some people have found also works as a sleep aid, often considered to have minimal side-effects. You might discuss it with your physician.
I would avoid benadryl and dramamine and related drugs as sleep aids.
Thank you CliffordK
Done all that !..... 3 sleep studies, diets, CBT, Melatonin,antidepressants (I don't know which ones)..the list actually goes on and is quite protracted but I really appreciate your counsel. The one thing I have never tried is hypnotherapy.......don't think I believe enough in it to warrant trying it !
Will discuss all the above you have cited with my physician.
Thank you
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My trick is to imagine myself traveling out of the universe, with the stars flying by like a Star Trek warp drive, while keeping my mind focussed on a long sound, like ooooooooooooooooooooo. Usually I wake up hours later.
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My trick is to imagine myself traveling out of the universe, with the stars flying by like a Star Trek warp drive, while keeping my mind focussed on a long sound, like ooooooooooooooooooooo. Usually I wake up hours later.
Thanks for this Grizelda...the thing is every night i actually do fly about the Universe in my rocketmobile.....So ewe know...it's a case of "been there done that, bought the T-shirt, cavorted with Aliens" [;)]
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Had my appt yesterday with a GP at my practice that I had never discussed my insomnia with before . She was shocked when I told her. First thing I said was "Help me--This practice has seen fit to re-prescribe me nitrazepam for over 30 years "...Of course I said it with a smile and a wave as they all know me there. Anyhoo, we've come up with a proposed system/diary of withdrawal dosage fun !!
My body must be saturated with the stuff !
Will keep you updated as this "program" is due to last a few months and once weaned off we'll start afresh with investigation joy !
Really looking forward to being nitrazepam free !..crikey !...I may be perceiving the world in a whole new way in a few months.
Thanks to all for your kind responses.
Hugs and shmishes
mwah mwah mwah
neil
xxx
Sleep Well !
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My body must be saturated with the stuff !
If you have gone two weeks without it (http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=45952.msg399386#msg399386) then you have already been Nitrazepam free ...
Half-life [of Nitrazepam] 16-38 hours
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrazepam
Really looking forward to being nitrazepam free !..crikey !...I may be perceiving the world in a whole new way in a few months.
Fingers crossed it was giving you paradoxical effects ...
A paradoxical reaction or paradoxical effect is an effect of medical treatment, usually a drug, opposite to the effect which would normally be expected.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradoxical_effects
Do you know of an alternative that I can suggest to my GP as something else to try ?
anticonvulsant (antiepileptic) medications are used off-label to treat insomnia, e.g. ...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20124884
http://www.emedexpert.com/facts/gabapentin-facts.shtml
Primary Insomnia ... Prescription Drug Therapy
... Off-label use of antiepileptic (gabapentin, tiagabine) and atypical antipsychotics (quetiapine, olanzapine)
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/291573-overview#aw2aab6c14
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I believe that Nitrazepam is fat soluble. That means that your body can store a lot in the fat reserves... So, for a single dose, your halflife calculations may be correct. However, after taking it chronically for years, it may actually stay in the body for a much longer period than would otherwise be predicted. And, it would be slowly released maintaining a blood concentration.
Of course, it is probably in the hair, fingernails, and toenails too, but isn't reabsorbed from those locations.
Water soluble drugs are generally excreted much faster as they aren't stored in the fat.
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Thanks again RD and CliffordK for very helpful, useful information. Digesting your data
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Long-term use of this drug can lead to the occurrence of tolerance - effects of this drug become weakened over time.
Abrupt cessation of treatment may cause withdrawal symptoms, such as: anxiety, insomnia, psychosis, irritability and headache. Another important thing is Nitrazepam should be used during pregnancy only when clearly needed. Long-term use of Nitrazepam during pregnancy can lead to the occurrence of dependence in newborns, and because of that they will experience withdrawal symptoms immediately after a birth. [We'll just get rid of that little bit of spam there for you, thanks.]
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my shifts which either start at 7am or Noon:
Shift work has been shown to upset body clocks, and cause all sorts of side-effects.
In your case, it does not appear so bad as nurses, who might have shifts starting at 7am, 3pm and 10pm on successive weeks.
Could you ask to have a regular schedule?
Or at least, get up and go to bed at the same time every day, regardless of whether you are on early or late shift?
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Any new news on how it's going off your Nitrazapam?