Naked Science Forum
Non Life Sciences => Chemistry => Topic started by: Dege on 02/02/2009 21:05:46
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what all do you think could be done with a neutron gun and how do you think you would make one. I am not a terrorist I am just wondering. [;D]
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Here is how you would do it:
Take a lead tube and plug one end of it up with a lead plug.
Inside the smoke detectors (if you've got one), there is some Americanicium-241, I don't know where it is exactly (there was one time they did it on a podcast in Kitchen science), but remove it and place it inside your lead tube. You might try using a Geiger counter to find it (if you've got one [:D]
Plug the remaining open end with another lead plug, but drill a very small hole all the way through this one.
Place an aluminium foil over the end of the tube with the hole and hold it in place with a rubber band.
REMEMBER: the aluminum foil must cover the hole, this is essential to its operation!
CONGRATULATIONS! You've just made a neutron gun!
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And as for what can be done with a neutron gun... (https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.freesmileys.org%2Fsmileys%2Fsmiley-confused013.gif&hash=396386a856152a890252526964cc44dd) (http://www.freesmileys.org)
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But you're not going to kill anyone with it anytime soon. [xx(]
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What about a proton gun or an electron gun?
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thanks allot, how much americium would it take? and no i would not kill anyone with it [::)] lol
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As much as you want! Or what ever you can fit into the lead tube.
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A couple of smoke detectors will do nicely! [;D][;D]
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ha ha thanks allot chem4me. now lets get down to the real neutron gun [;D] lol what would you have to do as a power source for transmuting elements.
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Sorry?
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ok last question how would you use it. I mean how would you point it and make it hit the object you want?
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If you wanna do something like transmutate radioactive elements like thorium into uranium, radium will have to be used as a radioactive source, don't know where you're going to get some though...
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Also, you might want to try and use berrylium instead of aluminium as it will put out more neutrons...
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ok last question how would you use it. I mean how would you point it and make it hit the object you want?
What do you mean: how would would you point it?[???][???]
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well when you fire at something you have to aim it don't you? i don't see how it would hit the element you are trying to transmutate if the neutrons are being kicked back into the lead pipe?
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But that is not how it works! Let me explain....
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ok please do [:)]
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The lead tube (and the plug) will block the radiation leaving it so there is only one place to exit the tube: the small hole. Alpha-particles will flow out of this hole, when they come into contact with the nuclei of the aluminium, the atoms will absorb these particles and through some weird (but not unexpected) reaction begin to release a steady stream of neutrons.
That is how your neutron gun works.
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OK i think i get it [:)] so the neutrons don't go back into the pipe they are kicked out the other end of the aluminum
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Correct [:)] but berylium would be even better!
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OK thanks allot. what do you think would happen if you bombarded human flesh with neutrons? just wondering. that's one of those questions that just pop up lol
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Ummm... this gun won't do much.
Neutrons are absorbed by hydrogen-rich materials.
But this (http://safetyservices.ucdavis.edu/environmental-health-safety/safetynets/master-list-1/safetynet-71-radiation-and-human-health) might give you a better idea.
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thanks a ton [:)] you have been a huge help. o and would you mind if i messaged you tomarrow, I have to head to bead, it is 12 o'clock where I am at.
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Messaged me? What? What do you mean?
But sure, I'll be here tomorrow (I think [:D])
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Good night
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You mean you actually plan on making one? [:o][:o]
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You would find it difficult to prove that this "neutron gun" actually produces neutrons unless you have a good detector.
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But theoretically speaking, it should work.
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right, that was my question how to prove it was producing neutrons? so how would i do that? and yeah i have everything i need right in my work room [:)]
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Umm...getta a Geiger counter....
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OK thanks allot I will tell you how it goes it should be done buy tomarrow and after that would you want to help me with my next project? [;D] lol
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Well, be very very careful dude, pay attention to what you are doing at ALL times.
And keep me updated too! I want to hear how it goes! You've got me very intrigued... [;D]
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ha ha OK i just bought my smoke alarms and I am getting the AM out now [:)] I am having problems finding the lead piping that I need, is there any suggestions on how to get that?
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The suppliers?
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http://www.hmsmetalcorporation.com/
http://www.gravitausa.com/LeadPipe.html
See, I have no idea where you live but I'm sure you'll find some. [:)]
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thanks allot OK i just got some of the AM. out and am working on the others. [:)] now the am radiation is so low and alpha decay is very low penetrating do you think i should still be supper cautious over it. i mean the radiation will do good to penetrate even the epidermis of my skin, but i still wrapped the source in a big ball of aluminum [:)] just to be safe. lol
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Yes, you should be very cautious, it probably would have been better if you had gotten the lead tubing first then taken the Am out, but never mind. Pay attention to what you're doing, I can't stress that enough...
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ok thanks and I will. and now I will be putting on my mask and gloves and be .way more cautious [:)]
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so... if I can get the lead pipe and plugs then the neutron gun should be finished in about a good week. I did not know I would have trouble with the pipe. but i will get it [:)] so what do you think of the project?
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Is it for school or something like that? I think it is pretty cool that you're actually going to make it.
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Okay, so tell me again, what materials do you have? Exact numbers please [;D]
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OK I have 5 smoke alarms, will get 1 lead pipe and 2 plugs and 1 thing of foil.
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5 smoke alarms! Jeez! [:D]
Is it a school project? For the Science Show or something?
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Send me a message if don't want to tell everyone.
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ha ha no I am just Bord and wanted to do something I think after this I may make astrolite.lol but yeah do you think it would do well in a science fair or something?
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Astrolite you say... hmmm... Is that your next project? [:D][:D]
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yep...[:)] i like that it is twice as stable as TNT and nitroglycerin and has more power behind it. lol
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Dude, you're starting to freak me out! Whatever happened to not killing anybody?
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ha ha no I wouldn't do that. I just like explosives and things like that. but no I have no intention of killing anyone.
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Well, I am glad to know, very glad! *sigh of relief*.
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*stares very suspiciously at Dege*
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ha ha what guy doesn't like things that go boom lol but what would you do for a project? I may do that. if its good of course. lol
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but what would you do for a project?
Unfortunately, all of my projects are boring. If you want projects you should ask Make it Lady, she hows how to make things, hence her name, and she is good too, PLUS, she also knows her chemistry!
I'm just going to make some synthetic fibre and boring stuff like that...
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OK and hey that sounds pretty good. so... when you are using a neutron gun could you use polonium as a source?
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It is quite rare but the element is a good source of pure alpha radiation.
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haha rare? i know how to buy it for $50 as a liquid isotop.
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Polonium 210 (also called radium-F)?
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Just don't drink any of it!
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ha ha yeah i don't want to do that lol just check out the web site www.unitednuclear.com and look under isotopes and then alpha ad-miters and there it is.
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Looks pretty dodgy to me, but if you want to buy some... go ahead...but it might ruin the neutron gun!
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o reall? how does it ruin it?
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Didn't you say that it was a liquid? If you wanted to fire the neutron gun anywhere below the horizontal, you'll mess up the carpet, as well as give yourself a dose of radiation...(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbestsmileys.com%2Feek%2F2.gif&hash=2f6bd9cbf39d9d5e92452f4421ae0287)(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbestsmileys.com%2Feek%2F2.gif&hash=2f6bd9cbf39d9d5e92452f4421ae0287)
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o ha ha I guess so lol but what if I put whatever I am firing at on like a shelf or something would it work then?
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Just what and/or who exactly do you plan on firing this at? (https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbestsmileys.com%2Farmy%2F15.gif&hash=e2adb48bdcf2c4d9e67d69bc2e15d4ac)
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I see no reason why it wouldn't, so long as the tube is wide enough. But even so, you should not be playing around with this stuff. You don't know what it could do to you!
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbestsmileys.com%2Fcartoon%2F11.gif&hash=8504e28677ad4b12ac17ef6153a3405b)
That was what happened to me last time I played around with some plutonium.
You don't want to turn into this: (https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbestsmileys.com%2Fcartoon%2F9.gif&hash=7aec163c884084255987a214c80b59dd)
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ha ha yeah but that is why lead was invented lol i wouldn't be reckless with high radiation substances. lol
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Lead was not invented dude.
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In the sense of being synthetically created.
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you know what I mean lol
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OK,I wasn't kidding when I said that you would be hard pressed to prove that this thing generates neutrons.
Since geiger conters ignore them (to a pretty good aproximation) that's not an option. The fact that the guy giving "advice" here thinks that a geiger would work is worrying.
Americium is not nice stuff to play with.
Don't.
On a good day the yield for the alpha proton reaction in beryllium is about 1 in a million. With Aluminum it's a whole lot worse. Most of the alpha particles won't even get to the foil.
A typical smoke detector only has something like a microcurie of activity in it. That means about 37000 alpha particles a second.
Only half of them will head towards the foil so you are down to about 20000 alphas a second. Most of those will not actually be pointing straight at the foil so they will just plough into the lead walls of the tube and stop. Without knowing the exact geometry of the system it's hard to say how much this will reduce the rate of production but it's probaly something like a hundred fold or more.
A whole lot more of the alphas will be lost by interaction with the air unless you evacuate the tube. If the path in air is more than about an inch all the aplhas will be lost.
So, at best you have something like 200 alpha particles a second hitting the foil. It's not made of Be but, if it were then about 1 alpha in a million would produce a neutron. With 200 alphas a second you should get a neutron about every hour and a half.
Just how exciting does this project look now?
Wouldn't it have been better to do that arithmetic before you got the smoke detectors?
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yes I see where you are coming from. I really do. but the more americium you have like say I have 3 smoke detectors and get all of the americium out and put them in the chamber then shouldn't that triple my alpha and neutron out put?
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Well, you heard what the expert had to say.
Whooops...[:I], ummm... yeah, sorry about the Geiger counter wrong information [:I]
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ha ha it's ok chem. dont worry bout it.lol but yeah if i triple that out put then i should have more neutrons, right?
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It'll increase but I'm not sure about tripling.
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OK thanks allot I will up date you tomarrow
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Don't thank me man, I haven't done anything...
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yeah you have you and boredchemist gave me some good advice. lol
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Have you made it?
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what would happen if you put two nuetrons into an atom[?]
Also, Dege, what are you planning on doing with the nuetron gun?
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what would happen if you put two nuetrons into an atom[?]
You'll most likely get a different isotope. e.g Am-243 turns into Am-245 [:)]
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would it be possible to draw the proton of an atom into the path of the electron?
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The 6.3 kilometers long storage ring facility HERA is used to accelerate protons and electrons.
http://zms.desy.de/e428/e548/e550/e6944/e76/index_eng.html
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(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fzms.desy.de%2Fimages%2Fcontent%2Fe8%2Fe76%2Fimageobject175%2Fh1_event_hr_ger.jpg&hash=883b26705a6582fef4b6f6b1b59ef0bf)
The picture shows an event observed in the H1 detector when a proton and an electron collide. Key informations can be obtained from the track directions and particle energies.
http://zms.desy.de/e428/e548/e550/e6944/e76/index_eng.html
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Why do you want to know? [:)][:)]
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OK guys its done now all that's left is to prove the neutron is being produced
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How long did it take? 5 days? I thought you'd gone and done something stupid!
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You can try going to LAND (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Area_Neutron_Detector)!
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haha and how do i get it or can i make one?
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hey guys, sorry I got grounded for a while ( reasons you don't need to know) lol but it kinda put me off on my chemistry and nuclear sciences. so does anyone else have a project for me. I thought about some experiments with x-rays. what you think
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Experiment with x-rays? You can try what they did for Kitchen Science: http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/content/kitchenscience/exp/glowing-tape/