Naked Science Forum
On the Lighter Side => Complementary Medicine => Topic started by: aphay on 27/08/2004 05:19:35
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Does it help to improve mental retardation like what had been said about it benefiting down syndrome people. How about epilepsy as well?
thanks..
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I've not heard anything specifically on this, but I'll look into it for you.
Chris
"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
- Groucho Marx
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I have heard about a few people where the glyconutrients have actually improved their health condition.
I found a report that might shed some light and some thought to what to avoid.....
[?]Plant-induced seizures: reappearance of an old problem.
Burkhard PR, Burkhardt K, Haenggeli CA, Landis T.
Department of Neurology, University Hospital, CH-1211 Geneva 14, Switzerland, Pierre.Burkhard@hcuge.ch
Several plant-derived essential oils have been known for over a century to have epileptogenic properties. We report three healthy patients, two adults and one child, who suffered from an isolated generalized tonic-clonic seizure and a generalized tonic status, respectively, related to the absorption of several of these oils for therapeutic purposes. No other cause of epilepsy was found, and outcome was good in the two adult cases, but the course has been less favorable in the child. A survey of the literature shows essential oils of 11 plants to be powerful convulsants (eucalyptus, fennel, hyssop, pennyroyal, rosemary, sage, savin, tansy, thuja, turpentine, and wormwood) due to their content of highly reactive monoterpene ketones, such as camphor, pinocamphone, thujone, cineole, pulegone, sabinylacetate, and fenchone. Our three cases strongly support the concept of plant-related toxic seizure. Nowadays the wide use of these compounds in certain unconventional medicines makes this severe complication again possible.[?]
Here is another report I found....[?]Treatment of four siblings with progressive myoclonus epilepsy of the Unverricht-Lundborg type with N-acetylcysteine[?]
Of what I have learned in my research, glyconutrients are not dis-ease specific. These essential sugars are 'life to a cell' and help a dis-eased cell recover from its trauma and assist a healthy cell in its normal 'workday' function.
There are several books out [ http://store.dexlen.com#s ] about glyconutrients. You can read the first chapter of one of the books "Sugars that Heal" at http://glyco.dexlen.us/SugarsThatHeal.htm
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Here's the deal: Your body can synthesize any saccharide it requires from protein intake. There is no such thing as an essential sugar. So, unless you have a genetic mutation which alters an enzyme that catalyzes one of the synthetic pathways from amino acid to a particular sugar, most glyconutrients are a waste of your money.
Some of the more complex glyconutrients might be worth taking...but that last link in psophist's post (sugars that heal) is complete nonsense.
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Now I do remember reading that a certain amount of sugar was necessary for brain development in the first trimester of pregnancy. But as a cure after the fact on epilepsy and mental retardation? I wouldn't think so. I alos remember readying a while back on vitamin B therapy for schizophrenia. Seems like most of the stuff I've heard is about how sugar is bad for you. Now it heals. Go figure.
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Well, sugar ultimately kills you, no matter who you are or what you eat. Glycolysis produces pyruvate which enters the TCA/Kreb's cycle for energy production, from which the electrons generated are picked up by oxygen forming superoxide radical, the main progenitor of free radical damage in your body and the ultimate cause of aging, genetic damage, and many diseases. But you can't live without it. =)
I've also heard that glycosylation of proteins in the circulatory system is a huge cause of heart disease, especially in diabetics who tend to have higher blood glucose concentrations.
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So maybe antioxidents are the way to go.
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Antioxidants are definately the way to go. One of my mentors over the summer worked in the Webb-Waring Center for Antioxidant Research. I saw research detailing oxidant imbalances related to diabetes, heart disease, and several types of cancer. This can be a result of either inhibited production of antioxidants or excess production of oxidants, that hasn't been determined specifically yet....only that there are far more oxidants present in diseased tissues prior to disease manifestation.
Scary, eh?
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Yep, I'm scared now. I'm going out to get some Co Q10.
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I'll try and dig up some of the research that some of the people at Webb-Waring were doing and see what antioxidants they experimented with. I believe some of them were readily available as supplements.
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Antioxidant supplementation is probably very context-specific. In other words, the antioxidants present in 'green leafy vegetables' work well when they are administered as 'green leafy vegetables', but not when popped as a pill. Recent publications show that vitamin supplementation is a waste of money. More worryingly, one past study looking at the anti-cancer effects of anti-oxidants involved administering vitamin A (an anti-oxidant) to smokers and following up their rates of lung cancer. The study had to be stopped prematurely owing to a huge excess of lung cancers amongst the vitamin A treatment arm of the study.
The best advice is probably therefore to eat a helathy balanced diet that already contains all of the things jammed into supplement pills - you'll certainly save money, and you could save your life.
Chris
"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
- Groucho Marx
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But Chris-
I'm an American. We don't know how to do that here!
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quote:
Originally posted by chris
Antioxidant supplementation is probably very context-specific. In other words, the antioxidants present in 'green leafy vegetables' work well when they are administered as 'green leafy vegetables', but not when popped as a pill. Recent publications show that vitamin supplementation is a waste of money. More worryingly, one past study looking at the anti-cancer effects of anti-oxidants involved administering vitamin A (an anti-oxidant) to smokers and following up their rates of lung cancer. The study had to be stopped prematurely owing to a huge excess of lung cancers amongst the vitamin A treatment arm of the study.
The best advice is probably therefore to eat a helathy balanced diet that already contains all of the things jammed into supplement pills - you'll certainly save money, and you could save your life.
By waste of money, I assume you're implying that vitamin supplements have a very low bioavailability, right? That being the case, how do biologically unavailable vitamins have any effect on lung cancer, positive OR negative?
I agree that the best way to get your nutrients is to eat heathly foods. It's not very easy to eat a fully balanced meal all the time, and not all supplements are created equal...some have a higher bioavailability than others. This depends greatly on source, processing, and delivery, and is vitamin dependent. (i.e. some supplement better than others)
Anyway, I think I failed to mention that high oxidant levels are as much a symptom as they are a disorder. Treating the oxidants alone doesn't cure the disease, but can slow the onset.
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Well, actually no. It's not the bioavailability that seems to be the issue. It's the context and the total dose. Vitamin E is now actually implicated in increasing the risk of certain disorders - possibly heart disease.
I think the best way to think of it is that humans (and other animals) evolved to eat the diet that was naturally available to them. Our biochemistry therefore depends upon, and is optimised to use, trace elements, minerals and vitamins, at the concentration and in the context in which they are found in nature.
Popping a pill is a very artificial situation and does not accurately recreate the digestive chemical milieu that would exist if you had just eaten a decent meal.
Take iron as an example - this has a low bioavailability so we have very efficient scavenging systems to extract it from the diet. So supplementing with iron can push some men into iron toxicity.
I'm not saying that some people, through geography or dietary fad, are not deficient in some things, but the vast majority of people do not need to waste money on expensive supplements - eating the right foods is a cheaper and probably more effective way to maintain good health.
At the risk of being repetitive, taking a tablet does not present minerals, vitamins and trace elements to your body in the way it has evolved, over millions of years, to absorb them. Rather than seeing these dietary goodies in the correct concentrations, and associated with other beneficial chemicals, your digestive system sees the equivalent of a deluge, which can have all kinds of toxic effects. Vitamin A is great for keeping your eyes healthy, but eat a slice of polar bear liver and you'll go blind. It all comes down to too much of a good thing.
Chris
"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
- Groucho Marx
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So what's worse...being deprived of a vitamin or mineral that your diet doesn't provide, or taking vitamin supplements that might overexpose you to other nutrients which you already have an adequate supply of? Assuming you don't have a dietician at your disposal, this may be a tough decision for the average person.
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It's great to eat a "balanced diet", but much of the produce we can buy in supermarkets has been picked early and then spent so much time in shipment that it is no longer "fresh" and usually lacks much of the nutritive value that truly fresh food should have.
Also, archaeological records show that malnutrition and related diseases (scurvy, rickets, etc.) were quite common in prehistoric times. That coupled with the fact that human life expectancy was in the mid to upper twenties makes me think that the "cave man" diet might not be the best diet for modern humans.
Chris, I'd like to see some of the studies on the toxicity of vitamins and anti-oxidants. I know there are toxic levels, but they are usually considered fairly high in the studies I've seen.
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John - The Eternal Pessimist.
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John, further to my comments about vitamin toxicity, including vitamin E, and your request for some evidence, please see this news story released by Reuters today :
"By Maggie Fox, Health and Science Correspondent
NEW ORLEANS (Reuters) - Vitamin E supplements, which millions take in the hope of longer, healthier lives, may do more harm than good, researchers reported on Wednesday.
In fact, people taking high doses of vitamin E may in some cases be more likely to die earlier, although the reasons are not clear, said Dr. Edgar Miller of Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, who led the study.
"I think people take vitamin E because they think it is going to make you live longer, but this (study) doesn't support that," Miller told reporters.
Miller and colleagues re-analyzed 19 studies of vitamin E and health between 1993 and 2004. The trials involved more than 136,000 mostly elderly patients in North America, Europe and China.
People who took 200 international units of vitamin E a day or more died at a higher rate during the study, which lasted three years, than people who did not take supplements, they told a meeting of the American Heart Association.
"It's about a 5 percent increased risk at 45 years in the trials pooled together," Miller said.
"That doesn't sound like a lot but if you apply it to 25 percent of the (U.S.) adult population taking vitamin E, that is significant."
Miller, whose findings are also being published online by the Annals of Internal Medicine, said two-thirds of people who take vitamin E supplements take 400 IU or more.
"We don't think that people need to take vitamin E supplements, that they get enough from the diet," he said. Nuts, oils, whole grains and green leafy vegetables are all rich in vitamin E.
MUCH MORE THAN NEEDED
The average U.S. diet supplies six to 10 IU of E, Miller said. The Institute of Medicine (news - web sites), which sets recommended doses of vitamins and minerals, gives 1,500 IU of E as a daily upper limit.
"I would say it is too high," Miller said. The U.S. government's Food and Drug Administration is barred by law from regulating dietary supplements so the limits are voluntary.
People take large doses of vitamin E in the belief that it helps counter oxidation by unstable "free radical" molecules, which damages cells and can accelerate aging and lead to heart disease and cancer.
Miller, who was surprised by the findings of the study, said there could be several ways the vitamin supplementation is damaging the body.
While vitamin E in low doses is a powerful antioxidant, in higher doses its effects may promote oxidative damage, and may also overwhelm the body's natural antioxidants, he said.
Dr. Raymond Gibbons of the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota, said the evidence has been building against vitamin E supplements.
"Despite this ... I see many, many patients still taking vitamin E and I have to convince them not to," he told a separate news conference.
But the Council for Responsible Nutrition, a trade group for supplement makers, criticised the report.
"This is an unfortunate misdirection of science in an attempt to make something out of nothing for the sake of headlines," said the group's John Hathcock.
"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
- Groucho Marx
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This is the kind of thing that is driving me insane! I'm getting to the point where I'm too scared to take any supplements because we still don't know the true effects on us. I am also skeptical about all the fresh / Raw or heathly foods I eat always wondering have the been picked too early? Do they have all the vitamins minerals that that are designed to have in them. Are they filled with chemicals ect
I have been giving my mother 2010 iu of vitamin e a day, thinking that it will help her! She wont eat fruit and has very little veges!
Uly [:(]
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Thanks Chris. That's a very interesting study, and like Uly says, it makes things even more confusing.
I think one conclusion to all of this is that there is no magic bullet.
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John - The Eternal Pessimist.
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There are other ways to improve your overall diet without having to resort to paying a fortune for highly refined 'supplements' which probably have very different actions when taken out of the context in which they are found naturally.
For faddy (fussy) eaters a good approach is to include fruit juice (freshly squeezed) in the diet. Then make some soup which contains pureed vegetables (thus masking their texture). You'll be surprised how many people who 'hate vegetables' will happily slurp their way through a big bowl of 'delicious' soup that contains heaps on tomatoes, carrots, potato.
Give it a go and give the supplements a rest - the only people they help are the people who sell them to you.
Chris
"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
- Groucho Marx
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Oh, and you can get plenty of vitamin E from a packet of peanuts or cashews at a fraction of the price. C
"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
- Groucho Marx
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For things like CoQ10 though, you have to eat a lot of organ meats. Yuck. =P
Doesn't cooking food destroy many of the nutrients contained within? I've had some of the vegan wackos I know make a case for this and I'm starting to think they make sense.
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There have been several good points here. BUT, there are good products on the market! Maybe the caveman didn't know oranges were a good source of C? Bottom line, our bodies were made to utlize FOOD not synthetics. Our entire family uses products from a good company and we have seen amazing recovery in several areas. I am a "medical mom" and have done my homework. Glyconutrients DO WORK!
I have seen it in my own famiily. I will not get to details here but if anyone wants they are welcome to e-mail me. emmerich2314@aol.com
Rene
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quote:
Originally posted by glycomom
our bodies were made to utlize FOOD not synthetics. Our entire family uses products from a good company and we have seen amazing recovery in several areas. I am a "medical mom" and have done my homework. Glyconutrients DO WORK!
Our bodies evolved to utilize the biochemicals contained in food. Your body does not care if a particular chemical comes from a plant or comes from a pill as long is it is the proper chemical in the proper conformation. Just because we started off eating food is no reason to think we should only obtain our nutrients from food and food only.
Most nutritional supplements are extracts of biomass anyway. Do you know how hard it is to synthesize an enzyme or a vitamin? How is this any better or worse than the source of these miraculous glyconutrients?
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I am interested in knowing where your nutrition background stems? You seem to be very anti-natural. What does that stem from. Being the mother of a special needs child that is a product of our medical system, I know what happens. I live with it every day.
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Hey all! I stumbled on this forum. Wow! Tons of info...
I was told there are specific monosaccharides that are used for glycosylation on every cell. That there is even a noble prize winner for the discovery.
But 'Ylide', you are saying that this isn't true? Are you a specialist in nutrition or something?
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On the topic of eating healthy.....
The AMA (American Medical Association), recommends some type of vitamin supplementing to help protect against disease.
http://thyroid.about.com/cs/newsinfo/l/blvitamins.htm
Is a vitamin trully needed? If so, that would suggest that the foods that are available now aren't giving us adequate amounts of nutrients to stay healthy. Which leads me to believe that there is a possibility we aren't getting all the nutrition from the foods we have now compared to what we used to get from the foods 50 years ago. Am i on the right track at least?
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Ylide? I read your profile. you have background in biology. Kewl!
After reading these posts, I went around the internet and looked at different sites that had 'glyconutrient' mentioned...
I found several that mention that this stuff is a technology that MIT recognizes as one that will, 'change the world'(their words)...
Is it possible that Mass. Institute of Technology knows something that you don't, Ylide?
Confused...please expound with your knowledge if possible.
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Hello, would you be able to post how I could read the reports you refer to in this post.
Thanks, Nat.
quote:
Originally posted by psophist
I have heard about a few people where the glyconutrients have actually improved their health condition.
I found a report that might shed some light and some thought to what to avoid.....
[?]Plant-induced seizures: reappearance of an old problem.
Burkhard PR, Burkhardt K, Haenggeli CA, Landis T.
Department of Neurology, University Hospital, CH-1211 Geneva 14, Switzerland, Pierre.Burkhard@hcuge.ch
Several plant-derived essential oils have been known for over a century to have epileptogenic properties. We report three healthy patients, two adults and one child, who suffered from an isolated generalized tonic-clonic seizure and a generalized tonic status, respectively, related to the absorption of several of these oils for therapeutic purposes. No other cause of epilepsy was found, and outcome was good in the two adult cases, but the course has been less favorable in the child. A survey of the literature shows essential oils of 11 plants to be powerful convulsants (eucalyptus, fennel, hyssop, pennyroyal, rosemary, sage, savin, tansy, thuja, turpentine, and wormwood) due to their content of highly reactive monoterpene ketones, such as camphor, pinocamphone, thujone, cineole, pulegone, sabinylacetate, and fenchone. Our three cases strongly support the concept of plant-related toxic seizure. Nowadays the wide use of these compounds in certain unconventional medicines makes this severe complication again possible.[?]
Here is another report I found....[?]Treatment of four siblings with progressive myoclonus epilepsy of the Unverricht-Lundborg type with N-acetylcysteine[?]
Of what I have learned in my research, glyconutrients are not dis-ease specific. These essential sugars are 'life to a cell' and help a dis-eased cell recover from its trauma and assist a healthy cell in its normal 'workday' function.
There are several books out [ http://store.dexlen.com#s ] about glyconutrients. You can read the first chapter of one of the books "Sugars that Heal" at http://glyco.dexlen.us/SugarsThatHeal.htm
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Glyconutrients ARE NOT ABOUT SUGARS (SACCHARIDES). Yes, there are sugars on the surface of cells in the human body. YOUR BODY MAKES ALL OF THESE.
These products that these companies sell contain substances that DO NOT PROVIDE THESE SUGARS. They cannot, because they are in forms that have been shown to NOT BE DIGESTED, and cannot be broken into the individual sugars. If they are not broken down, your body cannot absorb them. In fact, most of these ingredients have been shown to pass intact into the large intestine, where they are eaten by microorganisms which produce short-chain fatty acids.
Did MIT say glycomics will change the world? Yes, they were talking about the science of how these sugars work in the body. THEY WERE NOT TALKING ABOUT GLYCONUTRIENTS!!
Did several Nobel prizes get won for glycobiologists? YES, BUT THEIR RESEARCH HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THESE SUPPLEMENTS, OR ANY SUPPLEMENTS AT ALL!!!
If you are a diabetic and you want to know what your blood glucose levels are what do you do? You check your blood glucose. Haven't you ever wondered why in over 10 years, and hundreds of thousands of dollars in research to prove the benefits of their supplement, why this company HAS NEVER published a study showing even one sugar increased after taking their supplement? BECAUSE NONE OF THESE POLYSACCHARIDES PROVIDE EVEN ONE SUGAR TO BE ABSORBED BY THE HUMAN BODY.
Do they work? Possibly. They are made of substances that could bind certain receptors in the intestine stimulating the immune system. And they have been shown to increase the production of butyrate, proprionate in the colon, which have many beneficial properties. But those who think absorbing individual sugars are the reason, are the ignorant public who have no understanding of human physiology, and have no idea how to understand the research on these substances, and so they just believe what they are told.
Of course, I have no financial stake in these products, so feel free to find some research to prove me wrong. And don't list a website like glycoscience.org because I've been there and there is no research article on that site that contradicts anything I have said. Give me a specific reference or quote even one reputable glycobiologist who thinks you can absorb any sugars from these substances. (I know, I have talked to some of the best in the country about this, such as HH Freeze, Ph.D.).
And the new improved version of their glyconutrient contains a common seaweed extract, which is readily and cheaply available. Yes there is research to show that this seaweed has polysaccharide, mostly composed of fucose, but there are no studies that I can find that show you can break this extract into the individual fucose molecules either. Much of the research listed in the National Library of Medicine shows that the benefits of this ingredient is secondary to its dipeptide content rather than its saccharide content. Dipeptides are two amino acids attached together. But then you couldn't call it a glyconutrient if you thought the amino acids were the benefit.
Is their new product cheaper? Sure, but you have to take more than the original supplement, and you can buy all of the ingredients of this companies products separately for a fraction of the price. In fact, they don't make any of the ingredients at all, they buy them from other companies and put it together. You can do the same thing from the same companies. No reason to go broke if these are helping you. Of course, your upline won't make any money that way.
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why do you have such a chip on your shoulder about glyconutrients? as far as the "new" product goes...it is more cost efective then the old and you take LESS. Before you bash things dig a bit deeper! If MIT did not refer to glyconutrients, what do you think glycomics is??? THe study of stars????
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quote:
Originally posted by loweduane
Glyconutrients ARE NOT ABOUT SUGARS (SACCHARIDES). Yes, there are sugars on the surface of cells in the human body. YOUR BODY MAKES ALL OF THESE.
These products that these companies sell contain substances that DO NOT PROVIDE THESE SUGARS. They cannot, because they are in forms that have been shown to NOT BE DIGESTED, and cannot be broken into the individual sugars. If they are not broken down, your body cannot absorb them. In fact, most of these ingredients have been shown to pass intact into the large intestine, where they are eaten by microorganisms which produce short-chain fatty acids.
Did MIT say glycomics will change the world? Yes, they were talking about the science of how these sugars work in the body. THEY WERE NOT TALKING ABOUT GLYCONUTRIENTS!!
Did several Nobel prizes get won for glycobiologists? YES, BUT THEIR RESEARCH HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THESE SUPPLEMENTS, OR ANY SUPPLEMENTS AT ALL!!!
If you are a diabetic and you want to know what your blood glucose levels are what do you do? You check your blood glucose. Haven't you ever wondered why in over 10 years, and hundreds of thousands of dollars in research to prove the benefits of their supplement, why this company HAS NEVER published a study showing even one sugar increased after taking their supplement? BECAUSE NONE OF THESE POLYSACCHARIDES PROVIDE EVEN ONE SUGAR TO BE ABSORBED BY THE HUMAN BODY.
Do they work? Possibly. They are made of substances that could bind certain receptors in the intestine stimulating the immune system. And they have been shown to increase the production of butyrate, proprionate in the colon, which have many beneficial properties. But those who think absorbing individual sugars are the reason, are the ignorant public who have no understanding of human physiology, and have no idea how to understand the research on these substances, and so they just believe what they are told.
Of course, I have no financial stake in these products, so feel free to find some research to prove me wrong. And don't list a website like glycoscience.org because I've been there and there is no research article on that site that contradicts anything I have said. Give me a specific reference or quote even one reputable glycobiologist who thinks you can absorb any sugars from these substances. (I know, I have talked to some of the best in the country about this, such as HH Freeze, Ph.D.).
And the new improved version of their glyconutrient contains a common seaweed extract, which is readily and cheaply available. Yes there is research to show that this seaweed has polysaccharide, mostly composed of fucose, but there are no studies that I can find that show you can break this extract into the individual fucose molecules either. Much of the research listed in the National Library of Medicine shows that the benefits of this ingredient is secondary to its dipeptide content rather than its saccharide content. Dipeptides are two amino acids attached together. But then you couldn't call it a glyconutrient if you thought the amino acids were the benefit.
Is their new product cheaper? Sure, but you have to take more than the original supplement, and [?]you can buy all of the ingredients of this companies products separately for a fraction of the price. In fact, they don't make any of the ingredients at all, they buy them from other companies and put it together. You can do the same thing from the same companies. No reason to go broke if these are helping you. Of course, your upline won't make any money that way.[?]
[?]WHAT COMPANIES CAN I GET THESE FROM? I HAVE FRIENDS WHO HAVE BEEN SCEPTICALLY SUCKED IN TO TRYING THESE PRODUCTS..MANNATECH..AND HAVE BEEN HELPED...BUT CAN'T AFFORD TO BE RIPPED OFF.
CONNIE
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quote:
Originally posted by chris
Antioxidant supplementation is probably very context-specific. In other words, [?]the antioxidants present in 'green leafy vegetables' work well when they are administered as 'green leafy vegetables', but not when popped as a pill. [?]Recent publications show that vitamin supplementation is a waste of money. More worryingly, one past study looking at the anti-cancer effects of anti-oxidants involved administering vitamin A (an anti-oxidant) to smokers and following up their rates of lung cancer. The study had to be stopped prematurely owing to a huge excess of lung cancers amongst the vitamin A treatment arm of the study.
[?]The best advice is probably therefore to eat a helathy balanced diet that already contains all of the things jammed into supplement pills - you'll certainly save money, and you could save your life.[?]
Chris
"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
- Groucho Marx
[?]I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT NUTRIENTS ARE IN WHICH FOODS AND WHAT CAN I TAKE IN THROUGH FOOD( Provided I can find UNPROCESSED & vine RIPENED un-poisoned)
I think we should be concerned about The NUTRITIONAL EDUCATION of Americans.
Ignorant Bystander
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Connie,
e-mail me and I can show you how to get your products for free.This really works! emmerich2314@aol.com
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Thanks[;)], but I know the sales pitch .
Actually,I am looking more for the source of the companies that supply to that company.
I am interested in learning about the natural foods that CONTAIN the NATURAL NUTRIENTS ...That are contained in these supplements....[?]
Just An Ignorant Bystander
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Bystander
Mannatech buys its Arabinogalactan from Larex Inc. (They are the only supplier of Arabinogalactan in the world at present, so if you buy it, they made it.) Food Science of Vermont sells a 100 gram container of the exact same grade arabinogalactan as what it in Ambrotose. MyVitaNet.com sells it.
Manapol (Aloe Extract with long chain acemannan) is ONLY made by Carrington Labs, which supplies Mannatech. They also sell Manapol directly and from vendors, such as MyVitaNet.com.
The other ingredients, such as the glucosamine, can be found from multiple sources. NOW brand vitamins has a very inexpensive powder form if you are making your own recipe. The gum Ghatti is more difficult to get, but the gum tragacanth is fairly easy to find via the internet. And I see no rationale to add the filler "rice starch". I notice that they didn't add it to their new "advanced ambrotose" at all.
Here is a post from 'pilotlight' at the curezone forums on the same topic.
"Hi Duane,
I thought I’d let you know how I made out creating my own glyconutrients thanks to your advice. Although I believe that you may be correct that people will see the same benefit by using only the arabinogalactan and the manapol, I wanted to see how close I could actually come to the glycol-formula that is ambrotose.
The first thing I did was I purchased a hundred gram digital scale and hundred gram weight (for calibration). The cost for both and shipping and handling was about $30.00. Then I purchased the manapol powder (64g at $27.44 which includes shipping and handling) and arabinogalactan (100g at $25.37 which includes shipping and handling) from myvitanet.com. I then went and purchased a high grade vegetarian glucosamine HCL called prescription 2000 (90g at $25.90 which includes shipping and handling). Because there is no warning about allergies to sea food on ambrotose I assume that the glucosamine HCL in ambrotose is vegetable based. After reading the patent information that you provided, I learned that Mannatech purchases their gum tragacanth and gum ghatti from a distributor named AEP Colloids in New York. Unfortunately, they only sell their products to businesses, however, I was resourceful enough to have a friend who owns a baking business (usually what gums are used for) order me a free sample, and who can purchase it for me if I really want to use it. There are plenty of places to order gum tragacanth but not so many for gum ghatti. However, gum arabic seems to be an adequate substitute and is one of the gums that some of the other manufactures of glyconutrients use in their products. There are plenty of sources for food grade gum arabic. That leaves the good old rice starch. Believe or not there are not too many places to purchase this ingredient (A&B ingredients is one of them) but according to the patent application, you can use corn starch or rice or corn flour.
Based on my purchases, I estimated it would cost me a little less than $25.00 per 100 gram container based on the formula contained in the patent application. I will probably get it under the $20.00 mark when I become a little more savvy about my purchasing and utilizing free shipping, etc. It will probably be even cheaper if I decide to buy the tragacanth and ghatti in bulk from AEP colloids via my friend.
I can’t tell you how much I appreciate your assistance. I plan on educating people on every message board that I can find. To be honest with you I’m disgusted by the amount of money that mannatech and their associates charge for this product. Because they buy things in huge quantities they probably make a container for three or four dollars. I know the associates will all stick to their mantra because some of them do this for a living. But because this product really helps people wouldn’t it be better if people who do take it could take more of it and still save money. And what about the people that can’t afford it? Maybe if they know there is a way that doesn’t take much effort and is 75% less expensive they will try it and enhance their health. I hope people will be willing to take a chance and do it themselves. It’s not difficult and it will save people a lot of money. Again, thanks for everything."
- Pilotlight
If you want to sell it to your friends and get them to pay you money so that you can buy the actual product from Mannatech, great. Just do that. No one actually gets it for free, just other people paying an exhorbitant price to give you money so that you can buy a supplement for an exorbitant price. Funny thing is, the company gets all the money either way. But that is what they are in business for. (We have roughly calculated that they most likely pay less than $10.00 each to make this supplement, especially if we can put together the ingredients "retail" for about $25.00).
If you are a salesman, or if you are rich, just buy the supplement from them. If you want to save some money and get the exact same ingredients, from the same companies, Mannatech uses then do that. Its up to you. Hopefully kittycat's friends have signed up enough people under them that they don't have to worry about that monthly medical bill too.
Kittycat, I'm glad your friend is getting better, however Reg McDaniels "research" is sales hype at present, and there is no evidence that his recovery is because of stem cells. You don't even have the scientific expertise to evaluate the quality of his research or if he is outright lying to you, and his research has NEVER been submitted for scrutiny by other researchers. I could say that it is secondary to growth factors stimulated by the absorption of large amounts of short-chain fatty acids, or several other unsupported theories, that would be just as valid. The bottom line is, your friend is improving and you have ZERO evidence HOW the supplement is working.
Great, it is working, but trying to convince the public this supplements superiority by false science is wrong.
Wow, I guess I do have a chip. But at least I don't make a profit from it. So I would have to say it is a more objective chip than others.
By the way, FYI, in case you read other 'miracle' stories from people of what glyconutrients can cure, I bring everyone's attention to the following link about a Doctor who published a miraculous study of glyconutrients effects on a boy, (who at the time of the publication had already died.)
http://www.mlmwatch.org/04C/Mannatech/complaint.html
And with that I bid you good day.
Just call me Chip.
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Don't you think giving people a more reasonably priced alternative of the same ingredients is helping people? I do.
As I said before, I am glad your friend is doing well with these supplements. I don't have a problem with the ingredients, just the ethics and science (or lack thereof) of the people selling them.
I hope, REALLY HOPE, that those people looking for objective information and an alternative (using the same ingredients) access this forum, and any others I find, and use the information I provide to help them just as much as your friend is being helped by the expensive supplement.
Your loyalty seems to be more to Mannatech and your pocketbook than to the truth and actual science. Which makes you more of a salesman than a kind, concerned friend who is helping the masses.
Does your friends parents know that there is a more reasonably priced alternative with the same ingredients? Lets see how much of a friend you really are.
By the way, I am in an alternative health profession, and am very OPEN MINDED of results, but I won't compromise my commitment to truth just because some company I like promotes and unscientific theory that has so far been proven false. Would I recommend these ingredients to someone in a similar situation as 'Rob?'...Yes. Would I lie about how it works to sell it to someone?...No
Duane
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Duane...
I must side with Cathy. you have been nothing short of rude! Lets hear about your profession. I bet you feel you provide a good service, well, I bet someone out there would easily rip it apart because they feel they are superior. You sit there and cut down our PROVEN science and docs....who are you????
Rene
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Proven science and docs? What proof?
Even the researchers at Mannatech have not been able to find even one scientific reference showing that what I have said is not true. Nor their #3 salesperson. You call it PROVEN, but have no evidence to support it.
Sorry you find it rude to read the truth. I'm just educating the public, and giving them a reasonably priced alternative.
As for homemade glyconutrients. There are several on the Curezone forum that have been making and taking them, and they have been doing great. I'll let you know if I hear any horror stories...None yet. (Hey, it is the SAME ingredients made by the SAME companies, so don't expect to get many takers to your request).
I apologize if my previous posts took a personal bent and were rude concerning your integrity and motivation concerning the people that you have told about these supplements. Being that you are not objective parties concerning Mannatech since you do get paid when others buy it, so you can see the conflict-of-interest. Of course, if you have been giving your profits directly to your friends to decrease their costs, I apologize.
Duane
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Dawson DJ;Burrows PC;Lobley RW;Holmes R;. The kinetics of monosaccharide absorption by human jejunal biopsies: evidence for active and passive processes. Digestion. 1987; 38: 124-132.
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Onestep:
Your reference is about "monosaccharides" or the individual sugars. No one questions whether the individual sugars can be digested, but the ingredients in Ambrotose are NOT monosaccharides, they are beta-linked polysaccharides, which to date, all studies say are non-digestible (cannot be broken into the individual sugars), so your reference is meaningless concerning glyconutrient mechanism of action.
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Main component of Glyconutrients is revealed by careful analysis.
It consists of 99.9% SPAM
The tins of SPAM are arranged in bulk to form a giant pyramid
This Pyramid emits a ray of false hope quickly seized upon by thousands of people who are out to earn a quick buck off the backs of people desperate for anything that offers a remote chance of assisting illnesses that are often life threatening and to which allopathic medicine is not producing any significant improvements.
The pyramid has already produced over 89 thousand hits on a google search using its name as a search term and the 16th of May 2005!
There has obviously been a tremendous amount of money generated by this pyramid selling scam, and one would expect that this licence to print money could easily produce and reproduce scientific, placebo based double blinded trials to prove or disprove its efficacy.
Yet this is simply not happening, All we see is the emergence of many unsubstantiated individual case histories, expressing somewhat miraculous claims.
The sad part about this, is that it will inevitably add to the FDA’s and Eurocrats armoury against food supplements, many of which do indeed offer significant benefits to people who wish to avoid the myriad side effects from prescription drugs.
There is a move to have many of our vitamins and food supplements removed from the shelves of health stores, or to have their potency reduced to levels where they are useless, and this scam is playing right into the FDA and Eurocrats arms! When this SPAM Pyramid bubble burst, and it will! The vultures will simply find another carcass to gorge upon.
I f this product does what it is supposed to do, You won’t even have to change the oil in your engine, houses will build themselves, the dead will rise again, and the deserts will turn green and flourish.
Where is the hard evidence????????????????????????????????????????????
Glyconutrients will play a major role in what economists are predicting to be the next trillion-dollar industry- the Wellness Industry. Are you ready to take your piece of the trillion-dollar pie by marketing and educating others about Glyconutrients and their benefits? Anyone who cares about their health and the health of others can be successful in this business if they are teachable, coachable and trainable. Your primary mission is to expose people to this information and let the educational and support tools to educate your prospects about the benefits of the products and the business opportunity. Does that sound like something you can do? And with our team approach, even though you are in business for yourself, you are never by yourself. You'll love the support system.
I remember being roped in to a Foreverliving products seminar, thanks to a friend who would insist that we were going to earn many thousands of pounds with minimum outlay. I told her it was a scam, and sure enough, this guy was trying to convince us that he experienced a miracle or three after taking alovera juice. He apparently healed his injuries, an internal medical problem, all the pain left his body, and he grew a third leg to boot. I had heard enough within a few minutes and we got up and left.. But there were several hundred people that didn’t leave, all with a blank expression shielded by £ signs in their brains.
Another venue when I was a lot younger was Golden Products, this was a range of household cleaning stuff, grossly over priced and sold under a pyramid scheme. My friend and I went to London and stayed in a hotel free of charge. But our reason for being there was to have a day in London at their expense, skipping out on all the bull. We had a great time thanks to them
I ASK AGAIN: WHERE IS THE HARD EVIDENCE FOR THE EFFICACY OF THIS PRODUCT? A quick search on pubmed produced 2 returns, from 2 vague trials, which lead me to ask, where is all the money going????? Maybe they have donated to the Tsunami victims families?
Andrew
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Does anyone know if glyconutrients have helped with the treatment of fibromyalgia ? I have seen claims of it doing so from websites with a vested interest, so would like an unbias opinion.
Thanks.
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SPAM ALERT, SPAM ALERT
quote:
Originally posted by quietman18
Does anyone know if glyconutrients have helped with the treatment of fibromyalgia ? I have seen claims of it doing so from websites with a vested interest, so would like an unbias opinion.
Thanks.
There is a special glyconutrient, fucoidan, found in its most abundant form and most activated and bioavailable state in Original Limu based on 15 years of development of the non-chemical, proprietary extraction process of the seaweed limu moui. Much information can be found in Rita Elkins' book, Limu Moui, which is available in most health food stores. She summarizes that an good extract of this seaweed has anti-cancer, anti-tumor, anti-inflammatory, anti-viral and anti-bacterial properties plus providing the body an exceptional immune boost as well as a moisturizing and rejuvenizing effect on the skin.
In fact, it does anything you want it to, except dry up torrents of SPAM
Probably its most profound effect is the doubling of the size of my wallet since I discovered it. Amazing how vulnerable and ill people will believe, and PAY, anything if I just feed them enough garbage to make them believe that it works.
Regarding fibromyalgia, I personally know of a woman who was about to be institutionalized with a combination of a fibromyalgia and lupus condition. These were complicated by an arthritic conditions as well. The woman I know today bounces CHEQUES around like nobody's business, BECAUSE SHE SPENT ALL HER MONEY ON SPAM - but she had been so bad off that she had to have a clock placed on her ceiling as she was restricted to bed and could not stand the pain of turning her head to look at the clock on the wall. I know a number of other people personally with autoimmune diseases as well who are like new people today following their daily consumption of Original Limu.
The key component in Original Limu is fucoidan which is found only in sea-based plants. Besides all the other tremendous nutritious components in limu moui including vitamins, amino acids, essential fatty acids, anti-oxidants, glyconutrients, live enzymes, and particularly the whole spectrum of minerals and trace elements in colloidal form found in the sea which our blood emulates, and still others, the fucoidan in limu moui stands out as perhaps the greatest nutrient and immune booster ever discovered. The scientific and medical establishment is taking an ever greater interest as well as the studies on fucoidan have been growing exponentially since the mid-1970’s in the database of the National Library of Medicine at www.pubmed.gov. Anyone can go to this database and search the word fucoidan and turn up now over 600 studies and can narrow those studies to issues of interest simply by adding an additional word or more like cancer or tumor or tumors or carcinogen or carcinoma, immune, blood or platelets or leukocyte, inflammation or inflammatory, liver or hepatitis, lung or pulmonary, heart or cardiovascular, pancreatic or diabetes or insulin, virus or viral, bacteria or bacterial, wound or wounds, surgery, skin or dermatitis or dermal, etc.
So why is Original Limu the best source of this limu moui extract? It is for very good reason that Original Limu is called the one, the only, the original! It is the only proprietary non-chemical optimized extract on the market with proven value having over 15 years of research and development supporting it. It is also harvested from the pristine pure waters of the Tongan Islands of the South Pacific where there are no pollutants or heavy metals contaminating the water due to industry or large-scale agriculture. The people of the Tongan Islands have been consuming limu moui for over 3000 years and attribute their great vitality and good health and longevity to limu moui.
All the other seaweed products, like Sea Vegg, that seem to be multiplying monthly, are just trying to jockey for position for attracting the uninformed. And, what a shame that people will be side-tracked from what looks to be the greatest health discovery of our time, Original Limu. Our wretched Western diet polluted with preservatives and additives and sugar substitutes, etc. and our society’s one-dimensional focus on the economics of food distribution such as shelf life and premature harvesting almost totally eclipses any nutritional focus. Also, our Western culture almost single-mindedly focuses on medicine that almost exclusively treats only the symptom and not the basis or underlying cause of a disease. With this in mind, Original Limu is, in all reality, a Godsend for our nation and a world that we Westerners have infected with our poor nutritional and pill-pushing culture.
Our bodies were designed for a particular kind of care including good, wholesome and complete foods and such is available in spades through Original Limu. If we feed the body what it needs, it can regulate its chemical machinery and heals itself as it was designed to do as evidenced by a cut on our finger healing itself or our overcoming a cold or flu with just rest and plenty of water. In fact, that is what medicine is suppose to be all about, helping the body heal itself! Hippocrates is the Father of Modern Day Medicine with all doctors having to take the Hippocratic oath. Hippocrates says “Let food be your medicine and your medicine be your food.” Our Western diet miserably misses the mark! And in spite of his cautioning, “Above all, do no harm,” we poison ourselves with the often-horrendous side effects of man-made medicines that are promoted shamelessly on the airways by the pharmaceutical companies hoping that they can make the advertising enticement so powerful that people will in essence self-prescribe by going doctor shopping until they get what was promoted to them over the airways.
Regarding Dr. Strand and his recommendation of the USANA supplements, I respect him as a doctor for his nutritional perspective and I have personally tried USANA supplements and found them valuable but nothing like Original Limu. USANA supplements are a product of man and his science; Original Limu is a natural product from the Creator, who has the full picture of our needs and the exact amounts needed. I have also tried natural products like Barley Green or Barley Life also with some value but again nothing like Original Limu. I have shopped for organic foods but they are nothing next to Original Limu. I have heard of Noni and Mangosteen and green teas, etc. None of these are sea-based natural products and, thus, none of them have the whole spectrum of minerals and trace elements nor, most importantly, do they contain fucoidan and none of them hold a candle to Original Limu. Nothing in the health and wellness industry compares to Original Limu outside of good health practices like good nutrition, plenty of rest, plenty of exercise, plenty of pure water and fresh air drawn deeply into the lungs, sunshine, temperance and trust in God.
Now, I rarely take anything else but Original Limu and save a bundle of money and experience incredible, even miraculous health as in the case of the throbbing pain in my right arm disappearing where decompression with fusing surgery on my 3-5th cervical vertebrae was unsuccessful. My skin is vibrant and no longer a flaky mess. My sinuses and asthma are back under control. I sleep much better. I have more energy. Even my toe and finger nails are supple and healthy again. And, if ever I do come down with something by pushing myself too hard, the immune-boosting anti-viral, anti-bacterial and anti-inflammatory functions of the fucoidan gets me over it in a day or two without my ever having to see a doctor or get an anti-inflammatory and antibiotic. The savings alone in doctor bills and supplement costs easily pays for my Original Limu. Anyway, I simply cannot live without Original Limu!
Email me at tfbail@sbcglobal.net or call me at 979-297-1919 and I will tell you of more stories I know about first hand, even of those with whom I have shared first-hand myself as with my son with acne and ADD / ADHD, a friend with multiple sclerosis, another friend with hepatitis, another with high cholesterol, triglycerides and LDL/HLDL ratio, another with migraine headaches, another with sinus headaches, another with chronic fatigue, another with an open wound in his leg for over 20 years without healing, another with scar tissue from adolescent acne fading away in her mid forties, another person experiencing her tumors and cancer receding and disappearing, another being better able to cope with chemotherapy and radiation treatment, another coming back from short-term memory loss and dementia, another with disabilities from two car accidents involving drunk drivers and high blood pressure and high blood sugar, and the stories keep unfolding daily and I haven’t even mentioned the many stories of other people outside those with whom I have personally shared Original Limu. We now have a physician in our area who is directing his patients to Original Limu as he sees the hopelessness of the over-medication that Western medication has to offer as in the case of one medication being prescribed merely to mitigate the side effects of another medication!
I will conclude by making it clear that I am not a medical doctor. I only hold a Ph.D. degree in organic chemistry and have been in active personal study of the health and wellness industry since 1997 when I was getting sick more often and required an anti-inflammatory in order for prescribed antibiotics to work. Thus, I do not or will not prescribe, treat, diagnose in regards to any disease or condition. Original Limu is simply a natural and spectacularly nutritious food by which the body can perform optimally in healing itself.
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SPAM ALERT, SPAM ALERT
This bloke is about as worried about your health as I am about his.
This is a complete load of crap.
I have locked his login so he cannot return to alter the content of this post, from which I have removed the multiple references to his own website, leaving behind just his key-phrase rich content.
So now, every time someone searches for his crappy website, they'll also find our's. And whenever he goes promoting his website, he'll also be advertising our's.
Thanks Thorpe. Have a nice day.
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I'm not a scientist, but stumbled across this website because my friend insists I try Mannatech's products. When she told me the price, I was floored. I've been enthralled by your back and forth over Glyconutrients. I can see Kittycat's attempt to sell for sure. She would be happy to know that my friend insists it is "curing" her husbands symptoms of possible luekemia. He has not thrown up for 3 months and is slowly gaining his weight back, which prompted me to do some searching.
I want to thank Duane. Your recommendation of the glyco-cocktail is very helpful. Can we "talk"?
I have irritable bowel and endometriosis-I have been taking Alive! Whole food energizer by Nature's way. I'm a big skeptic on Vitamins, but for the past 2 years I have felt better. Not great, but definitely have gained more appetite. Should I think about looking into your cocktail, and how much of all that stuff am I supposed to use per product? I don't want to wake up with night sweats! Thanks for your response.
A layman that knows nothing really, but so much more! [:D]
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Hey all,
Wow, what a spirited dialogue you have going! I happened upon this dialogue because a neighbor stumbled across someone's attempt to recreate Ambtrotose on their own. Interesting endeavor. (By the way the new Ambrotose is a good deal less money) Anyway, I thought I might add my two cents to some of what I read. First, an observation: there is nothing inherently flawed with bringing a product to market and making a profit off of it. It's how everyone makes a living. Right? We could "trade blows" all day about when doing so crosses a threshold and tends toward greed. That won't get anywhere.
I honestly think the assessment that Mannatech is a money grabbing company is well, uninformed. Are the exceptions in any organization, of course, but let's look at the big picture. Ambrotose works. A close family friend who had severe fibromyalgia for 10 years no longer has it, and hasn't for about two years now. (I know, I know, "andedotal" cries the skeptic, but that's a darn good placebo.) The people who say Ambrotose does not work are the same people who have not spent any time around people who have tried it over a long period of time. Am I wrong? Doctors who have, swear by it from everything I've seen. Check out Dr. John Rollins of the US Patent office and his interview in the Atlana Voice Newspaper (August, 2004) for starters.
Marketing this discovery of necessary carbohydrates through a network was not the first choice. The problem was it didn't sell when it sat on a health food store shelf. The aloe discovery of Mannose did so for around a decade! Why? Because people didn't understand it's magnitude, and low quality copycats ruled the checkout stands. So what's a company to do with that situation? Do you take out big loans to try to spread the word through expensive advertising to an inherently skeptical public, or change the way you market the stuff?
Is network marketing perfect? Of course not. Some get into the industry for all the wrong reasons, and give the whole industry a bad wrap because of it. But how many of you would have heard about glyconutrients without Mannatech? ANYONE? How many other incredible health related discoveries have not made the news for lack of funding to promote what was learned? Because of Mannatech (whether you choose to buy from them or not) you at least you know about something that can dramatically improve someone's quality of life. If you have the stamina to source everything in Ambrotose, and try to recreate it, all the best to you. (I don't personally have the expensive lab equipment to ensure I'm doing it right.) For my money I'd rather know that the amounts I'm getting have been carefully tested and are precise and potent. I'm glad to pay top dollar for someone to save me the time so that I can spend my time elsewhere (like on these exciting chat rooms).
Shoot, with enough effort I could recreate just about anything I buy, but my ability to do so doesn't make the company trying to sell the same thing to me inherenetly evil. Or how about this question: Are doctors evil for rendering their services? Afterall, they are running a business that is seeking to make money from you.
As for the greed/cost issue, has anyone taken the time to look into MannaRELIEF? http://www.mannarelief.org This is Mannatech's non-profit arm that prodives/donates these nutrients to children (in something like 40 countries) and doesn't make a cent. I'm sure the glyco concoction suggested above can't beat that price! Mannarelief gets Ambrotose AT COST, also funds large independent clinical studies, and even occasionally can give to adult charities. At a gathering of Mannatech associates in March of 05, 8,000 of those "greedy" people contributed $300,000 to MannaRelief. MannaRelief also ponied up $250,000 to help fund the Global Aids Awarness Program. Does that help add perspective for anyone? I hope so. If Mannatech didn't pay assocaites they'd have to spend even bigger bucks, I suspect, on advertising. That wouldn't lower the cost at all. Every company makes a profit. If they don't there is no product. Mannatech is not somehow unique. They have a business to run.
Is Mannatech perfect? No. No institution/company/system is. Are they doing the best they can to market something that is one of the few genuine breakthroughs in nutrition? I believe they are. It's easy to find postings on the internet that bad mouth this or that. If it really matters that much to you, fly to Dallas and talk with their science team. That's real investigation, googling, well... The science team at Mannatech is no group of slackers I'll assure you. You can view their crediential on the site. One final bit of perspective I'll add as a juxtoposition to Mannatech is the chart below that shows the mark-up costs of prescription drugs. Have a look at the chart. The % number shows the actual mark-up. Makes you sick doesn't it!
Here's to your health,
Christian
BRAND NAME OF DRUG CONSUMER PRICE 100 TABS
COST OF GENERAL ACTIVE INGREDIENTS PERCENT MARKUP
Retail Cost Mark-up
Celebrex 100 mg - $130.27 $0.60 21,712%
Claritin 10 mg - $215.17 $0.71 30,306%
Keflex 250 mg - $157.39 $1.88 8,372%
Lipitor 20 mg - $272.37 $5.80 ; 4,696%
Norvasc 10 mg - $188.29 $0.14 134,493%
Paxil 20 mg - $220.27 $7.60 2,898%
Prevacid 30 mg - $44.77 $1.01 34,136%
Prilosec 20 mg - $360.97 $0.52 69,417%
Prozac 20 mg - $247.47 $0.11 224,973%
Tenormin 50 mg - $104.47 $0.13 80,362%
Vasotec 10 mg - $102.37 $0.20 51,185%
Xanax 1mg - $136.79 $0.024 569,958%
Zestril 20 mg - $89.89 $3.20 2,809%
Zithromax 600mg - $1,482.19 $18.78 7,892%
Zocor 40mg - $350.27 $8.63 ; 4,059%
Zoloft 50mg - $206.87 $1.75 11,821%
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Oh, and here are a couple names of people who worked with Ambrotose with tremendous results.
Dr. Martin Milner (of the Health Science Institute). After years of research on Ambrotose, he said "What was unproven in 1996 is now a compelling necessity of medical care in 2004. At this point it would be unethical if I withheld the value and benefit of glyconutrient from my patients and medical students."
Dr. John Axford of the Royal Soceity of Medicine in England. Check out his work with Ambrotose and Rheumatoid Arthritis.
Dr. Ben Carson of John's Hopkins University has spoken at two Mannatech Events at his own experience with Ambrotose.
Happy Research
Christian
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Hi Christian There goes that Darn Spam again!
Isn't Manna relief coined to closely resemble Manna from Heaven, meaning Money from Heaven? Therefore isn't Manna relief someone trying to relieve one of ones money? Or is that just another coincidence?
Glad you mentioned aloe and the pyramid scams. Aloe is actually a fantastic plant derivitive for burns and skin abrasions, and maybe even a few internal problems. This was all it needed to satisfy the massive industries that "became cultivated by the desert plant". The plant itself can be obtained from garden centres and is quite happy living on a sunny window until you burn yourself and need to rub the juice on it. So how did they manage to develop it into a multi-billion dollar business? Exactly! They piled it all up into a gian pyramid, where it emmited rays of hope, roping in everyone that wanted to earn a fast buck off the backs of people in desperate need for anything that offers a glimmmer of hope.
This business does not seem very Christian like to me!
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wasn't the term 'manna' from the bible... referring to food? I don't think it was talking about money...
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Then why doesn't Mannatech put these individual sugars in their supplements?
As I have noted before: Ambrotose ingredients are: Arabinogalactan - 50%, Manapol 10% (fiber from Aloe), gum Ghatti - 10%, Gum Tragacanth - 10%, glucosamine and rice starch 10%.
Glucosamine and the glucose from rice starch are the only sugars that can be absorbed from your intestine from these substances. The other ingredients, in every study and paper so far, have shown to be indigestible, and travel intact to your large intestine where they are fermented by microorganisms.
None of those sugars you mentioned are absorbed from Ambrotose. So while you are sincere, your hypothesis of these sugars being absorbed and increasing glycoproteins is wrong, and has zero scientific support.
It is also interesting that while glycoscience.com has a section reviewing evidence that each individual sugar can be absorbed (when taken by itself, not from a non-digestible chain of sugars), the ingredients in Ambrotose are actually only complex chains containing 6 of those 8 sugars. If they really believed that they could all be absorbed, why not add them. Their explanation is that by taking the "precursors" your body makes the other two sugars.
Science, of course, has already shown that you can make all 8 of these sugars by yourself without having to take Mannatech's supplement. Ambrotose doesn't contain the 8 individual sugars because Mannatech knows that their supplement would not work if that was all it contained. This supplement has many beneficial effects, but not by any absorbing any "essential sugars." That is where Mannatech fools its competitors. If competitors try to put individual sugars in a supplement, patients don't get well. Then Mannatech can claim their sugars are "better." But it is apples and oranges.
These sugars are not digested or absorbed by human intestines. The mechanism of action is much more complicated, and the same ingredients can be bought from the same companies Mannatech gets their supplies from, so there is no reason to pay such high costs for the benefits.
In fact, not only can you get the same ingredients, but Manapol was designed and patented by Bill McAnalley when working at Carrington Labs. He is the Ph.D. that formulated Ambrotose. So the Manapol that you buy from Carrington (or retail stores) is the same product he patented.
It is interesting to note that when Dr. McAnalley worked for Carrington Labs, he, with others, wrote a paper on Mannans (long chains of mannose sugars) in which it is noted that Mannans cannot be digested by the human intestine. Since no research has been published that has ever shown these complex fibers to be digestible, I wonder why he changed his mind.
I realize that you are sincere and caring person about people, especially those that suffer. But you know nothing of science, or how to read or interpret it. Your information is sales information from a company that is promoting an unsupportable hypothesis to make them sound validated in order to sell a product. I recommend that you stick to testimonials of the benefits. Those are impressive, and in this case, more substantial than trying to substantiate these ingredients when all the science shows Mannatechs sales pitch about absorbing sugars is currently not possible with these ingredients.
Yes, I know, it sounds rude and irritating when I point out the problems with Mannatechs hypothesis. Associates get frustrated because I am contradicting what they have been told by very intelligent people. However, I would love to be proven wrong. Contact all of your resources. Contact the researchers in the company and tell them what I have said and get the references or research from them that proves me incorrect.
I have made this request of multiple associates in the company, and even multiple researchers. So far, they have not come up with anything that actually support their sugar hypothesis. Though A couple have said that they have studies, but they don't publish them for various reasons. I find this interesting considering the "10,000" scientific references that they have on their website (none of which have anything to do with the actual mechanism of action of their supplement). Why would the only studies that prove your hypothesis be the only ones you hide from the public? Not acceptable. Especially when they own their own scientific journal that they could publish it in.
Yes, I still see the benefits of these supplements, but unlike you I question the honesty and integrity and ethics of this company, especially when the technical advisors and researchers at the companies that supply these ingredients are more than happy to discuss the current research and problems with Mannatech's hypothesis, but Mannatech's technical advisors, customer service, and researchers will not talk about it, or offer up an explanation why their hypothesis has no scientific support.
Good ingredients, too expensive to buy from them though, and their marketing is based on bad science and ignorance of the public (which I am more than happy to help change).
I do appreciate your efforts to help others though, but you don't do it justice when you repeat science that has nothing to do with the supplement you recommend.
Good luck
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I have a severe case of fibromyalgia complicated by RA in my hands, feet, knees and hips,IBS, and cognitive and memory problems. I stumbled on this forum researching glyconutrients. There are literally thousands of testimonials ranging from miraculous healings to " I feel a lot better now." healings for the mannatech system, and so far not even 1 which says," I have given the glyconutrients a good HONEST try and it did NOT work for me."
For you nay-sayers out there do NOT speak to me of cost. Someone always pays. When I was taking all those prescription drugs, having all those fancy tests, going to see all those high priced specialists, SOMEONE was paying for it, and it was you and me, RIGHT? The health care system...yours and my taxes, the health insurance system...yours and my insurance premiums.
So if you have not lost your health, your career, your business, your new house, your new vehicle, your life savings and almost your life itself, do not presume to put a financial figure on MY health and well being. If it is my finances that make someone wealthy and I get all of the above back...so be it, and welcome to it!
Also, do not talk about solid scientific proof... placebo effect or real honest healing, who really cares as long as the end result is good health.
I am considering trying the Mannatech system, and if you really care wether or not it works, and are really concerned about me spending my food, clothing and housing money on something that you truly believe does not work( or are you just playing the devil's advocate for the fun of it to see how many people you can P--- Off and offend), then find me 100 or even 10 verifiable testimonials against the glyconutrients from people who gave it a 100% honest try. I don't need to spend my money on stuff that doesn't work. I've already spent it all on everything from illegal drugs that were supposed to help with the pain, to Far eastern medicines, to Native American medicines and everything in between.
So help me here. You say it doesn't work, and all I hear is that it DOES work. I am a sceptic and I welcome your help in PROVING yet again that something I DIDN"T tey doesn't work anyway
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It is a good thing that Dr. Michael Schlacter had not read duane's suggestion that Ambrotose doesn't work. Because if he had, he probably would not have been giving it to some of his patients, and especially to Greg Letourneau, a patient who had came to the emergency room with strep throat, a fever that spiked at 107 F and had developed toxic shock syndrome. He was seen by 10 different doctors, given every possible medication, but his body had shut down and he had been put on life support. A priest had given him his last rites and his family had been told he was dying. Dr. Schlacter asked the family if they would allow him to try the glyconutrients as a last resort. What did they have to lose? The doctor began putting the Ambrotose directly into his feeding tube. His extremities that had turned blue began to return to pink. The organs that had shut down, began to function again. His LIFE WAS SAVED! Bottom line...HIS LIFE WAS SAVED.
I have been diagnosed with Lyme Disease and 3 coinfections. I have been on massive antibiotics and a ton of vitamins, minerals and herbs. I have used a sound wave frequency "ParaZapper" recommended by Hulda Clark. I have suffered severe chronic fatigue as a result of my illness with very bad episodes of dizziness and brain fog. I also suffer from symptoms of a disease that is being called "Morgellons." I have large sores that would not heal and had biopsies done that 3 different labs COULD NOT IDENTIFY.
A friend who cares about me shared the info about glyconutrients and Mannatech. Her husband has throat cancer and is seeing favorable results from taking the products. He has already had chemo and radiation and the cancer came back. WHAT DOES HE HAVE TO LOSE? (Except his cancer!) UNTIL I BEGAN using the Mannatech products, none of the other treatments had produced results. After taking them for 10 days, all of my dizziness and brain fog have lifted. My sores are healing. SO DON'T TRY TO TELL ME THE PRODUCTS DON'T WORK.
As far as price goes, I am willing to pay the price. The products are no more expensive than many of the supplements I have gone into a natural health food store to purchase. So GIVE ME A BREAK!
By the way duane... you claim to be in the health business - do you charge money for your services????? WELL SHAME ON YOU FOR TRYING TO MAKE A LIVING IN THIS WORLD! Go pick on some other company that manufactures things that are harmful to our environment at the expense of making BIG profits and stop picking on a company that is offering hope to millions. Hope to the sick who are willing to pay the retail price and hope to those who chose to make a business out of providing a product THAT IS WORKING FOR PEOPLE WITH COMPROMISED HEALTH CONDITIONS. THERE ARE DOCUMENTED CASES!
I also offer here - a response from Mannatech to a person who was also making negative claims against the company and products:
Issue #3: Remainder of misleading issues in Bloomberg articles.
- In 1999, Bloomberg reporter David Evans wrote a short series of negative articles on Mannatech. No one knows what motivated Mr. Evans to launch such a seemingly purposeful attack, but his inflammatory reports were so misleading that our general counsel sent the attached letter (Attachment B) directly to the general counsel of Bloomberg, petitioning immediate relief from such unethical and potentially malicious conduct. The letter addresses the issues of (1) “telling consumers one thing and investors another about the safety and efficacy of Mannatech products” (See Attachment C, Further Disclosure Information), (2) “the use of a disputed study (Dr. Daryl See) to boost sales of its products,” (3) “the lack of double-blind placebo studies,” (4) the disclaimer concerning the effects of ephedra in MVP, (5) the claims of Mannatech’s involvement and problems with MannaCare, and (6) the reporter’s “suggestion” of potential stockholder law suits.
- As you can clearly see from our response to those issues, they ranged from misleading to absolute fabrication. Not one negative article has come from that reporter or Bloomberg since the receipt of our attorney letter.
- Dr. Jarvis, we were successful in halting the false and misleading reporting from the author of those articles, but this misinformation lives on through their posting on your Site. Please help resolve this issue.
Issue #4: The challenge of Dr. Steve Nugent’s credentials.
- We have several well credentialed MDs and PhDs on our staff and editorial board of our educational web site www.GlycoScience.org. However a reporter chose to take issue with the credentials of Dr. Steve Nugent, a naturopathic doctor we hired to assist us in both product formulation and customer education. When we met Dr. Nugent, he was the president of the American Naturopathic Medical Association and a highly sought-after speaker on the subject of nutritional science. While serving in the US Marine Corps, Steve completed his Associates, Bachelors, and Masters degrees in business from National University, San Diego and Vista, California campuses. In 1981 he received a PhD in Psychology from Clayton University in St. Louise, Missouri. In 1984 his desire to pursue alternative and complementary medicine led him to achieve a correspondence NMD (Doctor of Naturopathic Medicine) degree from the same Clayton University in St. Louis, Missouri, and ND (Doctor of Naturopathy) correspondence degree in 1991 from the Clayton School of Natural Healing in Birmingham, Alabama. In 1996, he received an MDMA (Doctor of Medicine in Alternative Medicine) correspondence degree from The Open International University for Complementary Medicine. In between those correspondence degrees he received a PDD (Professional Developmental Degree,
post graduate training) in 1992 from the University of Michigan, Dearborn Campus. Issue was taken with the “legitimacy” of one of the correspondence degrees received by Dr. Nugent due to the fact that the school has since gone out of business.
One must realize that even though complementary medicine is finally being taught in major medical schools and recognized by governmental agencies (NIH), it was not that way 20 years ago. Correspondence was one of the few avenues to take in becoming educated in that field, which simply makes Dr. Nugent a pioneer in what is now becoming main-stream. Dr. Nugent is the author of “Nugent’s Physicians Desk Reference for Applied Clinical Nutrition,” sold to thousands of MDs for their guide to complementary approaches to health care. I challenge anyone to read that text and then challenge Dr Nugent’s knowledge of nutrition or of complementary medicine. It is extremely unfortunate that this character assassination was levied and continues to be perpetuated on such a knowledgeable and well-respected professional.
Finally, Dr. Jarvis, I would like you to consider the following highlights of Mannatech achievements in your reporting on our company.
- Successfully introduced Manapol®; a stabilized, standardized and patented aloe vera extract into a market filled with cheap, fraudulent aloe vera products.
- Developed a chemical assay to determine the presence and volume of aloe vera’s functional
ingredient that is deficient or missing in most aloe vera products.
- Developed chemical assays for the measurement of other biologically active sugar molecules
necessary for glycoprotein synthesis and cell-to-cell communication.
- Formulated the first blend of necessary glyconutrients (trademarked Ambrotose®, patents filed
worldwide and issued in 15 countries)
- Developed chemical assay that can measure the synergistic effect of combining both lipid- and watersoluble antioxidants. (Patent filed on assay.)
- Formulated the most efficacious blend of lipid- and water-soluble antioxidants. (Assay validated, patents filed on formula.)
- Introduced safety-filing system for its products in 1997. (Safety filing programs are now being
recommended to industry by the FDA and being discussed in congress as potential new law.)
- Developed the first educational web site for nutrition, www.GlycoScience.org, with direct links from referenced papers to Medline. (Patents filed on business method.)
Dr. Jarvis, you might find the next two achievements interesting. Both HON and www.Healthawards.com have teams of scientific experts that analyze the quality of the scientific information posted by a company on the Web.
- www.GlycoScience.org was winner of 2002 merit award and of 2003 silver award from the World Wide Web’s www.Healthawards.com. (See Attachment D for information on this awards program.) This award presented to other 2003 winners include health Web sites from the “US Food and Drug Administration” (Merit Award), the “American Institute for Cancer Research” (Bronze Award), “Kaiser Permanente” (Bronze Award, and the “Mayo Clinic” (Silver Award) (See Attachment E for 2003 Fall winners.)
- www.GlycoScience.org was winner of 2003 Health on the Net (HON) Award for program accreditation. (See Attachment F for information on this organization.)
- www.GlycoScience.org editorial staff invited to make presentation at Health On The Net’s
International Conference in Geneva, Switzerland in 2003. (We were the only nutrition company in the world to be invited to present at conference.) - Co-sponsored 2003 international Glycobiology Conference in France.
- Recognized in business section of Dallas Morning News (May, 2004) as second fastest growing
public company in Dallas, Texas in 2003.
- Chairman and CEO Sam Caster invited to sit on Board of Directors of CRN (Council for Responsible
Nutrition) in 2003.
- Negotiated exclusive rights for patent-pending freeze-dried Australian Bush Plum (found to have highest level of naturally occurring Vitamin C complex of any plant on earth).
Hopefully, Dr. Jarvis, this information will aid you in your ongoing report on Mannatech. If you have any questions on any of this material, please feel free to contact me immediately.
I thank you in advance for your consideration.
Sincerely,
Sam Caster Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
Mannatech
SC/tb
Enclosures
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For Casmr03:
I have read messages from several people who had conditions that did not respond to glyconutrients, and many more whose conditions improved. I do not believe that it is the miracle cure for all conditions that many associates believe it is, but I have never said that it is not beneficial or that it doesn't work. On the contrary, it has many benefits and can help many people. I highly recommend glyconutrients.
If you can afford Mannatech's supplement, that is great, take it. However, for those who want to try the exact same ingredients, from the same companies that make it for Mannatech, and do so for a fraction of the price, I think that is great too. I have seen the same benefits from both avenues. Which only makes sense because the ingredients are from the same manufacturers.
For Moore4U:
Please read my posts more closely. You will see that I am an advocate of glyconutrients, and agree with you and Dr. Schlacter that they are beneficial for patients. I have always said that they work, and I am glad that you are getting relief with your regimen, as have many others. My problem with glyconutrients falls into other realms:
1. The currently unsupportable explanation on how they work.
All studies on these ingredients show that you cannot absorb the individual sugars from these substances, hence you are not absorbing these sugars and they are not increasing your glycoproteins. Are there other scientifically supported mechanisms that support how they are having their effects? Yes, but the "8 essential sugar" hypothesis for these ingredients is marketing hype that has NO scientific support. (Yes, you can absorb the sugars if taken individually, but NO you cannot absorb these sugars from the ingredients (polysaccharides) in Ambrotose.
2. Price
As I said to Casmr03, I recommend these ingredients/substances, and feel confident that they help many people. I do not begrudge Mannatech's ability to make a profit by charging the exorbitant prices necessary for multi-level marketing. If you can afford these ingredients, or want to pay for them by getting your friends and family to pay these ridiculously high prices, great. However, not everyone wants to pay that much to try these ingredients. In fact, despite the enthusiasm of associates, I have known a number of people who had conditions ideal for glyconutrients, but they did not take them because of fixed and limited incomes.
Yes, there are recipes for "glyconutrients" on the internet using mushrooms and fenugreek, etc. These do contain many polysaccharides and beneficial substances beyond the glyconutrients, but they are NOT the same as Ambrotose. They also have many testimonials that they have helped people, but whether they help people or not, has nothing to do with whether Ambrotose would be beneficial. If people want to try Ambrotose, but cannot afford the cost, they can get the exact same ingredients (not alternatives, but the same from the same substances from the same manufacturers that supply Mannatech) for a fraction of the cost. Not only that, but they can alter the amounts, or even drop ingredients to find what combination works best for them. Some people get the same benefits from just taking Manapol alone. I would not begrudge them that benefit.
Yes, I am a healthcare worker. Do I charge my patients? No, in my situation I don't need to. (which makes a double your money back guarantee easy to offer). My colleagues who do charge, are also business people, whom I do not begrudge making a profit. For example: There are many chiropractors in our city. Each one charges fees for their services. When asked for my advice, I note that there are many good chiropractors, but if they don't have insurance, or the money to pay higher prices, they can try the chiropractor who charges $10.00 per visit. He has practiced for over 20 years, does not have the debt that drives other chiropractors and rents space to an acupuncturist, naturopath and massage therapist, so he can afford to charge one low flat fee. I have been treated by him, and he is very skilled in many techniques and thorough, but he has very little stress because the business side of his business is very simple. It requires no employees, no filing of insurance, etc. Is his chiropractic less than that offered by others in the city? No. Would I tell people they have to go to chiropractors charging $40-60 to get the effective treatment? No. If people try this doctor, and find no relief after 3 to 4 visits they have spent the price of one treatment elsewhere, and then they can try the more expensive alternatives. I have not found any who have tried this doctor and not been impressed and gotten relief. The same holds true for the ingredients in Ambrotose.
If you can afford Ambrotose, take it, but if the price is keeping you from taking it, then try taking the same ingredients, but buying them separately (50% Arabinogalactan, 10% of each of the rest of the ingredients) and trying that. Or try just one or a combination of a few of the ingredients. Only Arabinogalactan, Manapol, and Glucosamine have any research showing they can have beneficial effects on the human body. Gums Tragacanth and Ghatti, in over 1000 years of use have no studies of helping any conditions except as dietary fibers in digestive complaints, and may or may not be necessary.
My posts have not questionned anyones credentials. Who cares about their credentials? It is the accuracy of the information that gives credibility (or takes it away).
My posts never mention Dr. See, or the information from Dr. Jarvis' site. The rationale from those websites on the problems with Mannatech are weak at best. So defending them is a waste of time.
I don't care what awards the glycoscience.org website has received. I don't care how pretty it is. It is a smoke and mirrors site that confuses the ignorant public. Look at the section on "Introduction to glyconutritionals." Read about these essential sugars. It sounds very impressive, and very convincing. However, read it again and realize that all of that information has nothing to do with the ingredients in the main supplement they sell.
They say "Glyconutritionals are designed to make the necessary sugars available to the cells quicker and in greater quantity" which makes sense, but they don't tell you that the ingredients in their supplement, while made of these sugars, have been shown to not be able to be digested, so none of these sugars can be absorbed. In fact, most of their website doesn't even note the individual ingredients in their supplement. In one section it says: "That is, polysaccharides other than starch (i.e. beta-linked polysaccharides) can be digested or absorbed whole in the small intestines. Bacteria in the colon can break down others into their monosaccharide components, which can then be absorbed and used by the body." but it is one of the few claims that gives no references, and if you research the substances, you will find just the opposite to be true. Why give hundreds of scientific references on so many other sections, and when the most important claim, central to their hypothesis, is made there is no scientific reference given? Which is why this topic has been so frustrating. Yes the ingredients work, but the explanation they give has nothing to do with these ingredients.
The people responsible for the science of Mannatech, are the same people who have published detailed scientific papers before being involved with this company. They know for a fact what specific, and relatively simple studies would be needed to be done to support their hypothesis, but they have never done it. In fact, one of the papers on Mannans (such as Manapol) written by Bill McAnalley (formulator of Ambrotose) and others, notes that the human intestine does not make the enzyme necessary to digest these beta-linked polysaccharides. (Mol Biother. 1989;1(6):290-6. The biological activities of mannans and related complex carbohydrates. Tizard IR, Carpenter RH, McAnalley BH, Kemp MC.) I have seen no papers since then by him or others that would lead me to conclude that anything has changed. Why not? Most of the research noted in that paper was concerning injectible forms. Eating it and injecting it are two different things. For example, insulin is effective if injected, but not if taken orally.
Want to know if your blood glucose in going up after eating that food? Eat the food and test the sugar in your blood. Is that so hard? Yet none of these sugars has ever been shown to be increased after taking this supplement, but the company claims you absorb sugars from these ingredients, contrary to all published studies on these polysaccharides so far. Why not do the study? Why publish multiple articles showing each individual sugar is absorbed, and then NOT put those individual sugars in your supplement? And yet have no studies showing any sugar can be absorbed from the fibers in the actual supplement?
The glycoscience.org site is impressive, unless you compare the information with the actual ingredients in their supplement and realize that their information has nothing to do with the mechanism of how their supplement is actually working. It is merely marketing because it sounds impressive. If they really believed everything on their site, they would make a supplement with each individual sugar in it, not non-digestible fibers. Or they would pre-digest the fibers with specific enzymes derived from micro-organisms that can break these substances into the individual sugars, or even add those enzymes to the product so that the digestion would happen in your intestine. But they don't. I have confirmation from their company that no pre-digestion or digestive enzymes are used in their product.
Again, let me reiterate:
YES the ingredients in this supplement work.(and they can be bought separately, cheaper).
NO the main ingredients in Ambrotose provide NO sugars (other than glucose and glucosamine). Their hypothesis that they do, and that it increases glycoproteins and cell-to-cell communication has absolutely ZERO scientific support. (glycoscience.org...thousands of scientific references and ZERO support for their hypothesis from these ingredients? I would say there is something suspicious).
Respectfully,
Duane
Trying to stay objective.
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Duane~
I appreciate your clarification and your trying to stay objective.
I am pleased to hear you say that glyconutrients DO work. So far, (and I am brand new to this company) in all the material I have read, as well as when hearing the people in the company I've heard speak, NEVER have they claimed that Ambrotose or glyconutrients are the "cure-all" for all diseases.
In fact, it has been just the opposite.
I understand that many people may not be able to afford the expense of purchasing the products from Mannatech, just as many people can not afford to receive the proper medical care they need from doctors or dentists.
I do believe Mannatech has set up their sales plan to assist those who truly believe in the product and believe it can improve the health of others when taken as directed, to be able to afford to take it for themselves.
I commend you for making available the information to the public about how to make the glyconutrient supplemnents for themselves to save money. I just don't think the average person wants to do that or has the time to do that. For some, if that is what they want to do, fine. I just don't have the time or energy to do that for myself.
I will seek some answers to the questions you raise, because I have the pure motivation to help others get well behind my willingness to tell others about glyconutrients. I am NOT doing it to make a lot of money. Would I like to make enough to help me pay for my own product, yes. But greater reward would be to hear that a person's life was saved or the quality of their life greatly improved because I told them about glyconutrients. I would also be willing to tell everyone I talk to... about the alternative of purchasing the ingredients for themselves to save money...let them make the choice. But I think you have to tell both sides of the story.
There are so many doctors and medical professionals that are seeing positive results with glycontrients that it is hard to ignore the facts that SOMETHING is being absorbed by the body and allowing the body to heal itself for many people. I also think a study needs to be done regarding HOW the people take the product. IF they don't take enough for a long enough period of time, it would be easy to say, "That stuff didn't work." So, I agree that more research and broader studies need to be performed. But for me, the evidence for what it has done for me is all the proof I need for now.
Thank you, duane!
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Hi Kittycat!
I am pleased to meet you too and I am relieved to hear something positive here about the use of and efficacy of glyconutrients. All I know, is what I know! The TRUTH of the fact that in 6 months of suffering, NOTHING (and I mean I had about tried everything!) made a real difference until I added the glyconutition to my regimen.
I would love to hear more about results you have witnessed.
I have told one friend who has breast cancer about this and her sister-in-law has a brain disease that is inoperable and is turning her brain to mush. She bought some for her and I pray that they are giving it to her. I need to follow up on it and make sure they are giving her enough. This same lady called me back to get some for herself and another man I talked to has a wife with Alzheimer's and he is buying some for her. I am so excited and anxious to see if it helps her. Please tell me your experiences with these things if you can.
I KNOW there will be negative stories that surface regarding Mannatech, some of the distributors, misrepresentation, etc., but so far I have only experienced VERY positive results and a very positive experience with the company, so that is what I have to go on until that is proven wrong. But I can NOT deny the difference in how I feel since starting the products myself. Plain and simple!
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OH! Kittycat! I just went back and clicked on your link. I had JUST ordered that book and it came yesterday. I am going to start reading it today! I also got the book "A Gift Called Michelle" about the little girl with Downs Syndrome who began using glyconutrients. Not only did they allow her to heal from severe respiratory illness (Asthma and allergies - she lived on inhalers, medications and a breathing machine most of the time), but they also improved her mental condition dramatically and EVEN HER PHYSICAL APPEARANCE. Have you seen her photos? It is truly amazing. She has lost much of the characteristic features of a child with Downs Syndrome and looks like a different child. Her story is worth reading. She is an A Honor Roll student in the 10th grade now (I think) and has excelled academically and physically way beyond her teachers and parents expectations! She was taught sign lanquage at an early age (4) because she could not talk. Of course, she later went on to learn to talk and once she did it was like a flood gate opening! But she has maintained her ability to sign and I read at the end of the book she goes into nursing homes to assist the Elderly and signs for deaf people and was recently invited to sign at at Garth Brooks concert! AMAZING! You can find that little book at www.glycotools.com Click on the books and print tab and you will find it.
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For what it's worth,I thought I would add my personal story to the list of arguments for and against glyconutrients. I am very grateful that a friend introduced me to glyconutrients just 5 months ago. For over 20 years I have suffered from chronic neck and lower back pain. Two of my children have suffered from "full blown" asthma since early infancy. My youngest child had severe eczema to the point of bleeding. Winter months were a nightmare with bottles of oxygen lined up in my garage. I am happy to say that in the last few months I have been pain free. There has only been 1 asthma attack (and I believe this was due to the fact that we were without product for over 2 weeks) and no sign of eczema. It is so easy to get caught up in the arguments, as I have been reading in these pages, but to me the only proof I need is the healthy kids living in my home. I wouldn't go a day without them and as a single Mom of 4, that is saying a lot.
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Hi Momof4 and Moore4u,
It is great to hear of how glyconutrients have helped you and/or your loved ones. It is very encouraging for so many to know that others are doing so well.
Please continue to share regardless of the negative attitudes.
Unfortunately these negative attitudes are typical and I can only imagine what doctors go through who support glyconutrition.
I have come to the point of realizing that it doesn't matter what others say or think regarding this topic. So many have tried to disqualify and tear down anything good said about this technology, however the results are changing peoples lives.
The sad part is that those who are so negative are robbing themselves of a blessing!
I have decided to ignore these destructive attitudes and focus on people who are open minded.
Please continue with your posting here and join me in ignoring the negative attitudes. God bless, KC
His grace is sufficient and His strength is made perfect in my weakness
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Momof4 and Kittycat!
Your acknowledgement of what the glyconutrients have done for your family and friends really makes me so thankful. I agree with what you say about "the proof is in the pudding" so to speak.
I know for sure now, that the glyconutrients are what have improved my Lyme symptoms - the brain fog, dizziness and chronic fatigue. I too ran out on Saturday and I have to wait until my next order comes in next week due to lack of money to get any, any sooner. I can feel the symptoms rolling back in...sinking back into that fog and the tired, exhausted feelings returning. This is not my imagination, I am a believer.
Please continue to share your successes here and I will too! [:I]
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Here are some interesting articles about Ambrotose and...
...Cancer
A Friendly Skeptic Looks at Glyconutrients and Ambrotose®
by Dr. Ralph Moss
http://chetday.com/glyconutrients.htm
...Down Syndrome
Ambrotose and Down Syndrome
by Dr. Len Leshin, MD, FAAP
http://www.ds-health.com/ambr.htm
...AIDS
[Mannatech] 'Shonky' sugar pill created by religious group
by New Zealand Press Association
http://www.religionnewsblog.com/archives/00002640.html
Here's an article about the company that markets Ambrotose (and reprograms normal human beings into Ambrotose Automatons):
Mannatech
by William T. Jarvis, Ph.D
http://www.ncahf.org/articles/j-n/mannatech.html
Here's a good article about multilevel marketing in general:
NCAHF Position Paper on Multilevel Marketing of Health Products
by National Council Against Health Fraud
http://ncahf.org/pp/mlm.html
And finally, here's a great article from the FDA with tips on how to avoid being a victim of untested, ineffective, and dangerous health products. This article is longer than the other ones, but a game I made out of it is to read the article once or twice, then re-read the thread, and everytime Kittycat says something warned about in the article, DRINK!
How to Spot Health Fraud
by Paula Kurtzweil
http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/1999/699_fraud.html
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I am intrigued by the discussion on this forum and particularly the interchange with Moore4U and Duane. Moore4U, you indicated that you would research further Duane's contention that the "sugars" in Ambrotose are not fully absorbed. That to me is the critical question in all of this. Naturally, if that's the case, while it still might be a helpful nutrient and yield varying levels of wellness improvement, the "extent" of the benefits based on the science of how the "8 essential sugars" improve cell-to-cell communication would appear to be overstated. Please post any response or finding related to this absorption question posed by Duane on this forum if possible.
Thank you.
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What an interesting topic. However it is looking more like a big argument than a discussion of recoveries, science etc.
If I am understanding this topic correctly, people seem to be stuck on whether the sugars are absorbed by the body or not or if there are one, two or more sugars in the supplement.
What difference does it make? Who cares about being so anal retentive about it?
If people are benefitting, what does it matter? Do you need to have a vent to boast your knowledge and be abusive? Or how much you hate MLM?
It doesn't matter who is right or wrong or if you are more educated than the next guy. What is wrong here? I am shocked at the combative attitudes and those who are neglecting getting in touch with the reality: Peoples lives are in the balance. What are you going to do about it argue or act?
Bean
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I was skeptical at first when a friend told me about Glyconutrients. But my son was later diagnosed with pnemonia, and he was very very ill. I got him a prescription for the pnemonia, and then called my friend to buy ambrotose, because I knew when she explained it to me that if it was the truth, then the product would work. But I didn't put him on it alone. If he was going suffer either no or adverse effects from ambrotose, I was bound and determined to experience it right along with him. My husband also began taking it. We all started on it the same day.
Unfortunately, in my experience, most MLM products are the best in their field, they are often patented, and cost alot for the amount that you get. But when I buy, I prefer to buy quality. Many MLMs sell quality. so unfortunately, some of the things I buy are bought through MLM. I have been recruited for many MLMs, and have had many bad experiences. My most recent bad experience was with Melaleuca. But the fact in my experience remains...the products sold through MLM are effective when used correctly. I am not fond of MLM. The only thing that convinced me to give Mannatech's MLM a chance is the book Wave 3 by Richard Poe. He is a reporter who is not involved in MLM, but wrote the book to give an unbiased opinion on MLM. I also read Wave 4, his 2nd book on the subject. This book opened my eyes on the reality of MLM, it's purpose, and its history. I found the book at the library by using the search word: network marketing.
I also thought before buying the product about researching what is in ambrotose, and concocting my own version. But I am a working mother of 3 with a husband, and I don't necessarly have the skills and scientific understanding of molecular structures to concoct my own version. I certainly don't have the time.
In my first internet search on Mannatech, I too found Dr. William Jarvis's document. But, on the same hand, one must look at the quality of the source. The website does not look professional to begin with, secondly, he's got spelling mistakes, thirdly, do a search on another reputable food supplement company: Juice Plus+. You'll see he's got bad stuff to say about them too and it is equally as unprofessional. Who knows? Maybe he's got more dirt on all of the companies! My point here is that if you are trying to convince people not to take the glyconutrients, you'll have to try harder. I for one look for a professional opinion presented in a calm factual manner. Things like SPAM and WALLET FULL OF MONEY used with or without emphasis, and sarcasm cause me to tune out that person's point of view. If you are intelligent, and know a factual reason why people should not either use glyconutrient products or get involved in the MLM side of Mannatech, and if you want to be sighted as a credible opinion to be taken seriously, then I would think that you would present your arguement in a respectful manner. People know the truth when they hear it. People will not pay attention to sarcasm as a credible opinion. But they might listen to someone who can present information that makes sense in a factual and respectful way.
There is bad news and history on every company out there. There is not one spotless company. But look beyond that--the real question here is does it work? And to most people who are suffering, they don't care how it gets digested, what they want to know is: "Is it a quality product that will actually be effective for me?" "If I put my money into this, will it work for me?". And not one person can prove that to them. No matter how much science or lack of is involved. People will believe what they want to believe. And if they are scared of MLM, then they will likely choose to miss out because of MLM's bad reputation.
As for my son and my husband and myself, my son has now been on Ambrotose on and off for 10 months now dependent upon when we can afford it, and when he's been off it for a while, he gets ill again. His frequency of sickness had definitely slowed. He hasn't had even the sniffles for four months now. When he does catch a cold, he is not listless like he used to get, and he still eats and plays. He never used to when he would fall ill. I took ambrotose alone for a while but never noticed any changes. After 3 months of taking it I added the Mannatech AntiOxidant, and three weeks later I felt noticeably different. I felt good. I had strength and more energy to do the things that I needed to do as a mother. I no longer needed to take naps. Mopping the floors no longer hurt my lower back. But it took 4 months of being on ambrotose and adding an antioxidant to get me to that point. Was it worth it? Yes it was. I never want to go back to being tired all the time. I will take this product for as long as I live. As for my husband, he said he felt more energy after the third day of taking just Ambrotose. I was skeptical of that since I felt nothing after 3 days. After a few months, his hoarking stopped. He used to hoark flem several times daily. after months of taking it, his allergies decreased. No one can convince you, all I can say is, just try it. Try it correctly, take it for at least six months in the dosages you need for your condition, and then judge it. The only way around skepticism is to give it a try for yourself to experience it first hand.
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Your body makes all of these duane, but at the cost of your body's energy. We are supposed to get all these saccarides in our diet, and when the body can't get them from food, the body makes them, but it takes the time and energy that is supposed to be utilized in fighting off sickness and disease.
quote:
Originally posted by loweduane
Glyconutrients ARE NOT ABOUT SUGARS (SACCHARIDES). Yes, there are sugars on the surface of cells in the human body. YOUR BODY MAKES ALL OF THESE.
These products that these companies sell contain substances that DO NOT PROVIDE THESE SUGARS. They cannot, because they are in forms that have been shown to NOT BE DIGESTED, and cannot be broken into the individual sugars. If they are not broken down, your body cannot absorb them. In fact, most of these ingredients have been shown to pass intact into the large intestine, where they are eaten by microorganisms which produce short-chain fatty acids.
Did MIT say glycomics will change the world? Yes, they were talking about the science of how these sugars work in the body. THEY WERE NOT TALKING ABOUT GLYCONUTRIENTS!!
Did several Nobel prizes get won for glycobiologists? YES, BUT THEIR RESEARCH HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THESE SUPPLEMENTS, OR ANY SUPPLEMENTS AT ALL!!!
If you are a diabetic and you want to know what your blood glucose levels are what do you do? You check your blood glucose. Haven't you ever wondered why in over 10 years, and hundreds of thousands of dollars in research to prove the benefits of their supplement, why this company HAS NEVER published a study showing even one sugar increased after taking their supplement? BECAUSE NONE OF THESE POLYSACCHARIDES PROVIDE EVEN ONE SUGAR TO BE ABSORBED BY THE HUMAN BODY.
Do they work? Possibly. They are made of substances that could bind certain receptors in the intestine stimulating the immune system. And they have been shown to increase the production of butyrate, proprionate in the colon, which have many beneficial properties. But those who think absorbing individual sugars are the reason, are the ignorant public who have no understanding of human physiology, and have no idea how to understand the research on these substances, and so they just believe what they are told.
Of course, I have no financial stake in these products, so feel free to find some research to prove me wrong. And don't list a website like glycoscience.org because I've been there and there is no research article on that site that contradicts anything I have said. Give me a specific reference or quote even one reputable glycobiologist who thinks you can absorb any sugars from these substances. (I know, I have talked to some of the best in the country about this, such as HH Freeze, Ph.D.).
And the new improved version of their glyconutrient contains a common seaweed extract, which is readily and cheaply available. Yes there is research to show that this seaweed has polysaccharide, mostly composed of fucose, but there are no studies that I can find that show you can break this extract into the individual fucose molecules either. Much of the research listed in the National Library of Medicine shows that the benefits of this ingredient is secondary to its dipeptide content rather than its saccharide content. Dipeptides are two amino acids attached together. But then you couldn't call it a glyconutrient if you thought the amino acids were the benefit.
Is their new product cheaper? Sure, but you have to take more than the original supplement, and you can buy all of the ingredients of this companies products separately for a fraction of the price. In fact, they don't make any of the ingredients at all, they buy them from other companies and put it together. You can do the same thing from the same companies. No reason to go broke if these are helping you. Of course, your upline won't make any money that way.
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Hello everyone,
I found this helpful with understanding what glyconutrients do:
MANNOSE
* Prevents bacterial, viral, parasitic and
fungal infections
* Eases inflammation in rheumatoid arthritis
* Lupus patients are deficient in this
saccharide
* Lowers blood sugar and triglyceride levels
in diabetic patients
FUCOSE
* Influences brain development
* Improves brain’s ability to create long-
term memories
* Inhibits tumor growth
* Metabolism of this saccharide is abnormal
in cystic fibrosis, diabetes, and cancer
and during episodes of shingles, which is
caused by the herpes virus
* Active against other herpes viruses,
including herpes I and cytomegalovirus
* Guards against respiratory infections
* Inhibits allergic reactions
GALACTOSE
* Enhances wound healing
* Increases calcium absorption
* Triggers long-term memory formation
GLUCOSE
* Potent fast-energy source
* Enhances memory
* Stimulates calcium absorption
* Too much or too little can be problematic
* Elderly Alzheimer’s patients register much
lower levels of this saccharide than those
with organic brain disease from stroke or
other vascular diseases
* Glucose metabolism disturbed in
depression, manic-depression, anorexia
and bulimia
N-ACETYLGALACTOSAMINE
* Heart disease patients have lower-than-
normal levels of this saccharide
* Inhibits spread of tumor
N-ACETYLGLUCOSAMINE
* Immune modulator with antitumor
properties and activity against HIV
* Vital to learning
* Glucosamine, a metabolic product of this
saccharide
* Helps repair cartilage
* Decreases pain and inflammation
* Increases range of motion
* May also help repair mucosal-lining
defensive barrier implicated in Crohn’s
disease, ulcerative colitis and interstitial
cystitis
N-ACETYLNEUROMINIC ACID
* Important for brain development and
learning
* Abundant in breast milk
* Repels bacteria, virus and other
pathogens
XYLOSE
* Antibacterial and antifungal
* May help prevent cancer of the digestive
tract
His grace is sufficient and His strength is made perfect in my weakness
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Hi smilzandchuklz,
Welcome,
From what I read the body acutally has receptors (stomach pumps) for these sugars which would suggest that the body prefers the sugars from the diet.
Even though the body can synthesize these eight essential sugars, "a number of diseases involving abnormalities in the synthesis and degradation of glycoproteins have been recognized." (From Harper's Biochemistry textbook
ch. 47 p.534)
This sounds to me like it puts the body through unnecessary stress.
I am enjoying learning more about the science of glyconutrition, however the results are incredible! KC
His grace is sufficient and His strength is made perfect in my weakness
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Hi everyone [:D]
Response to Duane's Posts
Duane makes some very valid comments. In particular the question over the availabilty of the 'necessary monossacharides' for glycoform construction from the polysaccharides provided in the Mannatech products.
Duane makes the assertion that "Humans cannot absorb the individual monossacharides from the "Mannatech" polysaccharides" being mainly beta-linked polysaccharides which according to 'current wisdom' are resistant to human enzymes in the mouth, stomach and small intestine.
Scientific studies can be dangerous sometimes. 'Current wisdom' has been proven wrong many times over time. We can sometimes draw conclusions from a few studies and yet miss logical conclusions using some basic common sense.
Scientific arguments for monossacharide absorption from dietary polysaccharides are not conclusive. There is no doubt that more studies in this area are required.
However, logic tells us that if plants make up polysaccharides from self-made monosaccharides (plants utilise sunlight energy to convert carbon dioxide and water into monosaccharides), that there is a good probability that free monosaccharides exist in fresh, living plant tissue. Sure we know we already readily get glucose and fructose from plants. Why discount the availabilty of some quantity of the other necessary monosaccharides.
After all, how do we get all the monosaccharides used in our biological processes? Purely from conversions of one monossacharide (glucose or fructose) to another via many energy intensive enzymic pathways? Was the 'Designer' of the human body that 'incompetent' that He ignored the much easier pathway of receiving and absorbing 'free' monosaccharides from our food to directly form the necessary glycoforms or glycoconjugates?
Is not the body designed to expect the necessary monosaccharides in the diet? Dietary mannose and galactose has already been shown to be directly incorporated into glycoproteins.
Martin A;Rambal C;Berger V;. Availability of specific sugars for glycoconjugate biosynthesis: a need for further investigations in man. Biochimie. 1998; 80: 75-86
Berger V;Perier S;Pachiaudi C;. Dietary specific sugars for serum protein enzymatic glycosylation in man. Metabolism. 1998 Dec; 47: 1499-1503
Alton G;Hasilik M;Niehues R;. Direct utilization of mannose for mammalian glycoprotein biosynthesis. Glycobiology. 1998 Mar; 8: 285-295
Why are there specific sugar transporters for many of the 'necessary sugars? Is not the body expecting the monosaccharide sugars in the diet? Doesn't it make sense that the body is capable of separating adequate amounts of the 'necessary' monosaccharides from the plant polysaccharides?
Scientific studies have shown that non-starch polysaccharides are digested before they reach the colon.
Holloway WD;Tasman-Jones C;Lee SP;. Digestion of certain fractions of dietary fiber in humans. Am J Clin Nutr. 1978 Jun; 31: 927-930
Scientific studies have shown other 'indigestible' polysaccharides are apparantly partially digested in the stomach or the small intestine.
One human study showed that the majority of one type of these Polysaccharides, called hemicelluloses, are digested in the small intestine.
Sandberg AS;Andersson H;Hallgren B;Hasselblad K;Isaksson B;Hulten L;. Experimental model for in vivo determination of dietary fibre and its effect on the absorption of nutrients in the small intestine. Br J Nutr. 1981 Mar; 45: 283-294.
Holloway WD;Tasman-Jones C;Bell E;. The hemicellulose component of dietary fiber. Am J Clin Nutr. 1980 Feb; 33: 260-263
Other studies suggest breakdown of Polysaccharides into monosaccharides in the colon.
Whistler RL;BeMiller JN;. Carbohydrate Chemistry for Food Scientists. St. Paul, Minn.: American Association of Cereal Chemists, Inc.; 1999
Other studies show free monosaccharides remain even after fermentation of gum plant fibres (including polysaccharides) by bacteria.
Bourquin LD;Titgemeyer EC;Fahey GC;. Vegetable fiber fermentation by human fecal bacteria: cell wall polysaccharide disappearance and short-chain fatty acid production during in vitro fermentation and water-holding capacity of unfermented residues. Journal of Nutrition. 1993 May; 123: 860-869.
The fact is that there is very little quantitative absorption data available for most high molecular weight complexes from food, and more understanding of the availabilty of monosaccahrides from complex plant polysaccharides needs to be acquired.
The fact is that the Mannatech glyconutritional supplements do provide in a large number of users, wonderful benefits. Not many will dispute this.
Do the benefits come primarily from polysaccharide fibre consumption with all the known benefits including helping the immune system?
Or via the monosaccharide sugar pathway where much of the monosaccharides supply are 'somehow' from breakdown of beta-linked polysaccharides and free monosaccharides in plants?
The overwhelming number of amazing testimonies (covering virtually every disease you can think of) from Mannatech consumers (including many I know personally) suggest to me that the benefits are due to much more than polysaccharide fibre factors.
There is enough evidence to support the Mannatech claim that their products contain saccharides that are necessary for optimal cell-to-cell communication. Albeit the evidence may be a combination of Scientific, reasonable scientific postulation, and circumstantial.
Can any Scientist conclusively prove the contrary? Scientific opinions do not always agree, so who is ultimately 'right'?.
Marketing and purchasing the Mannatech products are optional. Don't knock the right of people to earn a living 'selling the products'. After all, we do live in a commercial world with real bills, real debts, and real health challenges. Don't knock the right for a company to set whatever margins they wish to run a viable and profitable business. In fact I understand Mannatech has a charitable arm in Mannarelief that has donated millions of dollars of free glyconutritional products to 3rd world orphanages with some wonderful results.
Why not expend energy challenging the multi-billion dollar Alipathic industry which in general follows a paradigm that mask symptoms and interferes with normal human physiology, using drugs with known toxicity and producing side-effects - some very serious that over time can result in death. After saying that traditional medicine does have a very important role in crisis care.
Hope these comments help get a balance in the debate.
Finally study carefully the paper:
Is Saccharide Supplementation Necessary, Jane Ramberg and Bill McAnalley, Glycoscience & Nutrition, May 2002, Vol3, No.3
A great paper which expands on the above.
My Opinions will not prevent, treat,cure or mitigate any disease.
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Wow! I have not been back here for a bit. Going back to work has put a crimp in my time!
I have to agree wholeheartedly with your post smilz. I for one do NOT have the time to spend on tearing this product apart and having explanation for why it does or does not work. FOR ME...IT WORKS and that is absolutely ALL the proof I need. All that I can tell you is that 2 months ago I was a SHADOW of the person I am today.
I was in a bad state - extreme chronic fatigue, dizzy spells, brain fog and intense joint pain - from Lyme Disease and several co-infections. I KNOW beyond doubt that it is the glyconutrients that have made the difference in my condition. How do I know that? Because after taking them for 3 days I had profound improvement and I continued to improve every day. Then I ran out of product. I VERY quickly began to sink fast and all of my old symptoms began to return. I ordered more product - Ambrotose, AO (antioxidant), Mannacleanse, Catalyst (the multi-vit) and Plus (for hormone balance).
Two days after starting back, I began to build back up and I am feeling like a NEW person, a person who has her life back. I cry when I think about how I felt two and three months ago. There really were days when I felt so defeated and hopeless and I could understand why people dealing with the same disease I was dealing with were committing suicide. I was very depressed. My depression has lifted and my joint pain is SO gone - I feel 25 years younger and that is no lie!
People can sling criticism, skepticism, doubt - whatever - all they want, but I agree with smilz - don't knock it until you have tried it. I am hearing far too many compelling testimonies from people whose lives have LITERALLY been restored, hope restored - to not believe there is something here in these Mannatech products that are a life giving force. No...the company is not perfect - but I sincerely believe there is far more good created by this company, Mannatech...than bad. I agree - go pick on somebody else!
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[:)]
I am so happy to finally hear some good input on the glyconutrients. I know it worked for me, and no amount of 'scientific' proof on paper will convince me that it doesn't. I have had a strip torn off me for approaching one person who has a baby with CF, that person yelling at me that Mannatech's products are "Nothin but a bunch of sugar pills." Unfortunately, some people are just not open to anything that has suffered from bad publicity.
I especially appreciate Kiwi Boy's response, I think you have some extremely valid and well said points.
KittyKat, I hope I meet you someday. It's nice to meet others who know.
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wow have things heated up a bit here!
to all that are considering glyconutrients, you have nothing to lose! Our son was dying! My husband was a mess and I can say that all is well in my house! There are many people that are right on the money...this is a good company...Mannatech. For those of you that have nothing good to say....remember what your mother said. Trying to help others is a good thing. Trying to bash a company that is helping countless people for personal reasons ( I am assuming that some here failed at MLM) is a crime! If your Ford was no good, don't buy another....don't try to keep everyone else away!
Our health care is a JOKE in this country. I can say that. My son is the perfect example of being chronically ill and in the system for 13 years. He came out a mess and dying. He is now FINE. I don't hate docs...without them my son would not be here. But the system has failed him.
We prayed for an answer, as many people do every day. We were just able to see it when an angel showed it to us!
Anyone out there that is POSITIVE is welcome to contact me....and I welcome those of you that are new to this site...hang in there!
Rene
emmerich2314@aol.com
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The original reserach can be accessed through Mannatech at www.mannatech.com or www.quantumleapnow.com
The second address has excellent videos with the original research. At present it seems results are more from testamonials, but the theory discussed would point to very basic healing potential allowing the body to heal itself from the alphabet contained in Glycoproteins derived from the Aloe verae plant know from ancient times as a healing plant. It hasa been associated with amazing results such as Down's Syndrome, blindness, and Alzheimer's improvements so well worth watching, though I'd like more controlled studies from testamonaials, particularly how many helped from how many tried?
Have a great day!United in the search for healing,
Sincerely, Sylvia
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I too am pleased to be hearing some more positive remarks regarding glyconutrients. I just heard tonight that Business Week just posted the top 100 companies in America in their June issue and Mannatech is #6! They must be doing SOMETHING right. I would like to post my testimony (that was in the form of an email to some friends and family) regarding glyconutrients here for those interested:
Hello to all,
There are some people I am sending this email too that I have not written to in a very long time. Basically this is a summary of what I have gone through for the past 6 months and where I am today! It has been a WILD ride, but I can honestly say I believe God took me through this for a reason...and I believe the reason was so that I could help other people who may have a similar health issue, but even in a much broader realm. I think you will understand what I am saying, if you will read this email through to the end.
Well, folks, here is my story in a nutshell:
In February of 2005 I realized there was something seriously wrong with the way I had been feeling lately. I was so tired all of the time and had an achy, flu-like feeling, but I kept pushing myself. We were very busy at work and I did not have the time to be sick! I had been seeing a doctor of internal medicine for my symptoms. He diagnosed me with depression and obesity. He prescribed Prozac and something to help me lose weight. I just kept telling myself that I was feeling so low and so lousy because I was FAT.
As I look back over my medical records covering the past two years of my life, I can now see the many symptoms that added up to Lyme. But I had no idea what Lyme was, what actually caused it or what the symptoms were, until I became so sick. Skin lesions also began appearing on my left thigh and right shoulder that looked like giant infected mosquito bites. They would not heal. I showed them to the doctor. He took 2 punch biopsies. The tests went to 3 different labs. None were able to identify what it was. I was simply told I had an "unidentifiable bacterial skin infection." I was put on antibiotics, topical steroids, etc.
Nothing cleared it up and I began to feel worse and worse. I had extreme dizziness (vertigo) and had to quit driving. My thinking became very cloudy. I felt as if I were walking around with my head stuck in a big cotton ball all of the time. My joints ached severely and I had muscle spasms in my face and limbs. I also had awful floaters in my field of vision. It was like trying to look though a foggy windshield most of the time.
I itched constantly and felt as if I had "no- see-ums" crawling all over my skin. It was torture. I was extremely fatigued most of the time. Most days I did not feel like leaving the house and the slightest little thing I did - like taking a shower - was a major accomplishment. Most of my time was spent in front of the computer researching what was wrong with me.
One doctor put me on antibiotics and I began to take everything under the sun that other people suffering the same symptoms recommended.
I was eventually tested for Lyme. I learned I had 3 coinfections of Lyme. I missed two months of work. (Here is a listing of my protocol that began back in February)
February - 2005
Cephalexin 500 mg - 2 caps 2 x day
United Medical (UM)Physicians Rx Daily Multiple Support 3x day
UM Liver Support 2 caps 2 x day
UM CoEnzyme Q-10 1 cap 3 x day
Buffered C - Crystals
Salt Tablets and Sea Salt on foods
Natural Flax Seed Oil - 1000 mg 1 cap 3 X day
Olive Leaf Extract - 1 cap 3 X day
Para Gone I and Para Gone II 15 day regimen/5 day rest/repeated 2 x
Omega 3 Fish oil -1000 mg 3 x daily
Evening Primrose Oil - 500 mg 1 cap 2 x day
Was also drinking Peppermint Tea
Also added ground Flaxseed to cereal for breakfast and salads.
Drank LOTS of filtered water and at one point began boiling my own tap water.
March 2005
Continued with above protocol and added:
Hulda Clark's "ParaZapper" and began zapping four days a week at recommended level.
Zithromax - 500 mg 1 tablet a day for 60 days
April/May 2005
Continued with all of the above protocol (but dropped the "zapping" down to once a week and also added:
Minocycline 100 mg 1 tablet 2 x daily for 3 weeks, but on the third week added:
Flagyl - 500 mg 1 tablet 2 x daily
On 4th week RESTED - NO MEDS, per the doctors instruction, but continued with nutriceuticals.
June 2005
Switched from Zithromax to SEPTRA - (SMZ-TWP DS 800-160) 1 tab 2 x day
Also adding back the Minocycline.
(I forgot to mention that I took a whole clove of garlic that I chopped up every day.)
I do believe the 4 different antibiotics began to attack the bacteria, but nothing was making me feel any better...
June/July 2005
At this point I was feeling AWFUL. I had really not experienced any great degree of improvement. I had returned to work and was STRUGGLING to get through each day.
My chronic fatigue was overwhelming and my joint pain excruciating to the point where it was so painful just to walk from my car into the building. I still had brain fog and dizziness.
At the end of that week I had decided I would not return to work the next week unless I felt better. I would just have to figure out how to do without a paycheck since my disability insurance claim was denied.
It was at that point that a friend at work told me about something called glyconutrients. Her husband had learned of this major medical breakthrough and had begun taking them for his throat cancer.
He had learned of this from his sister-in-law who had been taking them for her terminal Non-Hodgkins Lymphoma, (who has JUST been declared CANCER-FREE, I might add.)
This friend gave me some information about the discovery of glyconutrients and how and why these nutrients feed the cells of your body, allowing them to communiciate properly, which induces your body to HEAL ITSELF...of all number of diseases. Our immune systems are ALL OUT OF WHACK because we DON'T get what our bodies need from our modern day diets, even people who TRY to eat healthy. Even by adding vitamins, minerals, herbs, etc., our bodies are left void of what our cells need to be in good health.
This technology was JUST discovered in 1996 and many doctors are just now studying glycobiology in their current textbooks. Glycobiology IS being taught in medical schools now, but doctors who graduated before 2002 more than likely don't have a clue what this is all about...UNLESS one of their patients tells them about this. Many doctors are being introduced to this by patients who have tried it along with their medicines and are seeing PROFOUND results. Many patients are then told by their doctors that they no longer need insulin, cholesterol medications, chemo, etc., etc., etc. The list goes on and on!
After reading and researching all of this...I was certainly willing to give them a try - I mean...
WHAT did I have to lose?
I called my friend and said, "Audrey, if this stuff does what it says it does... I WANT SOME NOW! She had her brother-in-law bring a bottle of the Ambrotose and AO (antioxidants) to my house that very night. I started taking the stuff sitting right there at my dining room table.
At that point I continued with my antibiotics, but discontinued all of the other stuff mentioned above and replaced them with the following from Mannatech:
I took a triple dose of Ambrotose - 3 X day
Also added:
AO (Antioxidant) 1 capsule 2 x day
Catalyst (Multi-Vitamin/Mineral) 2 tabs 2 X day
Mannacleanse (with Probiotics) - 2 tabs 2 X day
Plus (Endocrine system/hormonal support) 1 tab 2 x day
By the end of the 3rd day on the above I felt as if I had emerged from a dark cocoon. It was PROFOUND. Even my husband noticed a difference in my appearance and my behavior. I felt almost normal again and he said I was even "acting normal", like my "old self".
I was SO encouraged.
Since starting on glyconutrients about six weeks ago, I have felt a such a major difference!
The dizziness lifted, the brain fog - gone, the itching - gone, my sores - healed, the fatigue - GONE!
My energy level has increased daily. After about four weeks I ran out of product and I felt myself slipping back into the same awful feelings again - the fatigue - the joint pain - the vertigo, etc. I quickly reordered and once I got back on the stuff, I immediately began to feel better again and have continued to feel stronger and stronger each day.
As I was walking across the parking lot this past Thursday morning at work, I suddenly realized that I had NO MORE JOINT PAIN. I felt agile and light. I felt as if I could go play a game of tennis, or run on the beach, walk my big, strong dog! THAT was significant. All of my sores have cleared up and I have no new ones as well. People at work are noticing the difference and commenting on it. They say I have the “sparkle back in my eyes!”
My youngest daughter said the other night, “Wow, Mom - you look ten years younger than you did a month ago.” I told her, “Heidi, I FEEL ten years younger than I did a month ago…
a month ago I felt like I wanted to die!”
I thank God for the friend who shared this technology with me I am SO GLAD I listened and was willing to give the glyconutrients a try.
Now I want to share it with every person I come in contact with in the hope these products will make the same difference in their lives. It is my sincere prayer people will recognize the importance of just giving this a try.
There are many testimonies across the country of other people who have had similar experience with the success of the glyconutrients and many with much more profound results. There are compelling death-bed situations that have been reversed and people who had NO HOPE before, that are regaining their health and their lives. THAT is very inspiring and promising.
If you or a loved one is dealing with a health issue(s), I beg of you to take a look at glyconutrients. If you want to know where to get the products, email me and I will be happy to share that with you. (MsVictorE@aol.com)
This is a good site to learn more too: http://glycoinformation.com/sugars.html
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I had to add the results following my visit to the Lyme Specialist today:
I felt AS HIGH AS A KITE following my visit to the Jemsek Lyme Clinic today!!!!!!
This was to check my symptoms following all of the antibiotics I was prescribed. As most of you know, I took all of the antibiotics, but added the glyconutrients approximately 6 weeks ago.
Upon arrriving, the nurse took my blood pressure. When I was sick - at the highest my blood pressure was 160/98. Dr. Albright prescribed Norvasc. Even with that, the lowest it came down to was around 142/90.
When I started the glyconutrients I stopped the Norvasc. I wanted to see what kind of difference it would make because I had read that other people with high blood pressure had lowered it with the glycos!
My blood pressure today was 118/80! WOW! When Dr. Roeske came in and looked at that she commented on how much my blood pressure had improved. She asked if I was still taking the Norvasc and I told her no. I told her of my introduction and application of the glyconutrients. I asked if she was familiar with them and she said, "Not really."
I gave her a brochure regarding what Mannatech does for the children with HIV/Aids in the orphanages over in Africa. (MannaRelief) and the Manna Relief Hope program for sick children here in this country. She asked if she could keep them. I also gave her a CD - one by three top doctors regarding their use of glyconutrients on their patients.
Then she asked me how my sores were doing. I said - "Healed." She asked to see them, so I showed her. Her response was "OH MY GOD! That is SIGNIFICANT!" She said, "With other patients we are seeing with the same symptoms and same type of lesions - they are not responding like this - this is incredible! Then she asked about my "brain fog". I said, "Gone!" Then I told her about the joint pain being gone too, as well as my experience with no more hot and cold sensitivity from my teeth. (An added bonus I was not expecting from the use of the glycos!)
Dr. Roeske then said she did not want to put me on any more antibiotics - that she wanted to take blood work today - for me to keep doing whatever it was that I was doing with the glycos and she wants to recheck me again in 2 months to see where we are at that point and do labs again.
She also said she could see a marked physical difference in how I looked today. She said I seemed to have an energy and vibrance that just wasn't there two months ago. I said, "I know - and that is how I feel inside!" (PRAISE GOD!)
I was ecstatic when I left her office. I absolutely believe it is the glycos that are working on a cellular level to heal my immune system. Yes, I believe I needed the antibiotics - and who knows - I might need them again down the road, but we will just have to wait and see.
ON THE DOWNSIDE - When I got home today I had a letter regarding the appeal of my disability claim for the time I missed from work (10 weeks). It was DENIED again. What they stated in their letter of denial has statements that are NOT TRUE and although they said "CASE CLOSED" I still intend to write a letter refuting THEIR claims. The SYSTEM makes me SO MAD. I know this is NOT going to sound very nice (and I apologize upfront for this...)but I wish each person who sat in judgement of my claim would contract what I had for just ONE WEEK and then make a decision on whether or not I was capable of performing my job during that time. To say I am upset about that is an understatement. It is very unfair. Only God and my family and a few close friends know what I went through for those months I was so sick...and I guess that is all that matters, but I think about all the other people out there who are going through what I have been through and the ones that are yet to become sick - so to be denied coverage during a time when you really need it - is an outrage - very unfair!
The letter said I could file a civil claim based on the ERISA act and I may just consider doing that! If every one who has a similar experience just sits back in complacency and lets it "roll on by" then nothing will ever change. I may just keep fighting! (Now that I am feeling so much stronger and better!)
Well, I would like to offer the invitation again regarding looking into the glyconutrients. You only have renewed and better health to gain - nothing to lose. If interested in more info, just email me back. (MsVictorE@aol.com)
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Hi Moore, Thanks for sharing your story. This is wonderful news.
Isn't it incredible what the body can do when we give it these food nutrients? I have experienced great health since I have been consuming these nutrients and I have seen some unbelievable recoveries. It is the body that heals and as we understand what stem cells do, it make so much sense they cause areas of our bodies to regenerate. KC
His grace is sufficient and His strength is made perfect in my weakness
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I am curious to hear any testimony from anyone who has used glyconutrients that has NOT experienced any significant change - above and beyond what would be expected from eating a healthier diet. That is still the question for me, is whether or not simply changing our diet to eat "properly" will achieve similar effects as the Ambrotose. I understand the contention that even if we eat as healthy as possible, the foods available to us can only provide so much because they lack 6 of the 8 essential "sugars." But that is still a grey area as to the effectiveness of those extra 6 sugars versus eating healthy and supplementing our diets with vitamins etc. that are available at a much cheaper cost. I have no particular slant here as I'm just trying to obtain as much feedback on both sides of this topic to make an informed evaluation for myself. I appreciate the input.
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All I can tell you Tee is that I tried all of what you suggest, with no results. All I can tell you is that the Ambrotose did something that nothing else has been able to do. There are also far too many additional instances of amazing results.
If you hear from people who say it did not work for them, that is entirely possible. But you also have to weigh all the facts...How long did they take it and what did they take and how much did they take.
Here is an example.
I know of a woman at the church where I work who has MS. I had read that the glycos were helping many people with MS. I called her and told her about them and she said - "Oh I already tried that stuff and it didn't work at all for me." I said, "What were you taking, Barbara?" She said, "Oh I was taking something called AO or something." I asked if it was a powder or capsule and if it might have been called Ambrotose. She said, "No it was a capsule and it said AO on the bottle."
Well, that was the antioxidant and not the glyconutrients. Then I asked her how long she took it. She said, "Oh I took it for a couple of weeks and didn't notice a difference so I quit taking it."
See, she did NOT give it ample time to do what it needs to do. Experts say you should take the glyconutrients a MINIMUM of 4 months and if you are not willing to do that - then don't even start taking them.
Do you see what I mean? This woman brings a negative connotation to the glycos when she really didn't give them a fair chance to work. And she may be preventing someone who could REALLY benefit from taking them by her negative testimony. Just make sure you get all the facts.
Keep searching for the truth Tee, and I pray you find it!
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Tee,
Maybe not what you are looking for, but I am one person who was not helped immediately by glyconutrients. I began taking the Mannatech "Optimal Health System" in August of 2003. I did not have any serious health issues (except for being about 25 pounds overweight) I did have asthma (taking slo-bid & inhalers) since I was 13 and allergies and hay fever linked to springtime blooming plants. For me, it was not until April of 2004 that I noticed anything at all. My asthma is gone. I am no longer on slo-bid adn I haven't had a shot of an inhaler since Oct. of 2004. I'm still overweight, but I have lost 17 pounds in the last 3 months by exercising. My kids are on the products and they still get colds & stuff, but the length of the cold has shortened from 10-12 days to 2-4 days. I do share with folks when I can, and I have made more from Mannatech than I have paid them for products, so it's a good thing. It works, albeit for me it was slower than most folks I hear about. I was a sceptic at first, like most folks, but it is easy to be a sceptic - you don't have to believe anything.
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Watch for the US patent on Ambrotose in a few weeks.
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I continue to be glad your friend is getting better. I am amazed that you continue to claim you know how it is working when there is no evidence or research to show anything of the sort, but I realize that you don't care about that, so I will drop it.
I thought others who find this forum might be interested in the following post found at the curezone.com discussion on glyconutrients. You wanted someone with experience with glyconutrients other than Ambrotose and here it is. I hope you enjoy his information as much as I did. Here it is:
______________________________________________________
"After six months of making my own glyconutrients, based on Mannatech’s formula as contained in its patent application, I thought that it was time to report some of my findings. First, in an effort to be objective as I can, let me start with a mistake that I made when starting to mix my own formula. Before I get to that part, however, let me explain what products I used to produce my own formula. When I first began the process, I used the following ingredients: Arabinogalactan (larch tree extract), Manapol Immune Enhancing Powder, Gum Ghatti, Gum Tragacanth, Glucosamine HCL (vegetarian) and Corn Starch/Rice Starch (I began with corn starch then switched over to rice starch). The products were all stabilized and from reputable manufacturers. Indeed, two of the manufactures, Carrington Labs (Manapol) and AEP Colloids (Gums Tragacanth and Ghatti), are the same companies mentioned in Mannatech’s patent application. One manufacture, Larex (Arabinogalactan), is the only producer of larch tree extract so there is little doubt that Mannatech’s arabinogalactan is supplied by this manufacturer. The other two manufacturers, Cargill (Glucosamine HCL) and A&B Ingredients (Rice Starch) are probably used by Mannatech as well although I have no formal evidence of this (Cargill appears to be the only manufacturer of vegetarian based glucosamine HCL and A&B ingredients was the only source of rice starch that I could find on the internet). As I said earlier, however, all of these companies are reputable companies that have a history of making excellent products."
"Now, onto my mistake. Ambrotose is sold in 100 gram containers. According to Mannatech’s patent application, the glyco-1 formula consists of 48% arabinogalactan, 12% rice starch, 10% manapol extract, 10% glucosamine HCL, 10% Gum Tragacanth and 10% Gum Ghatti. Thus, a 100 gram container would require 48 grams of arabinogalactan, etc. Carrington Labs makes several products incorporating manapol, which is the inner leaf gel extract of the aloe vera plant. It is a freeze dried, stabalized, powder. Manapol immune enhancing powder is one of these products and comes in capsule form or bulk powder (64g). The bulk powder costs approximately 20-30 dollars per container but only contains approximately 5 grams of pure manapol extract with the remaining powder consisting of maltrose dextrin ( a filler). The cost for the pure manapol extract without the filler is $1600 per kilogram (2.2 pounds). Apparently, Mannatech incorporates 10 grams of pure manapol extract in Ambrotose and not the Manapol immune enhancing powder. There is no evidence from the label that Mannatech cuts the manapol extract in any way. When preparing my own glyconutrients, I was using 10 grams of the enhancing powder. Thus, my formula lacked tremendously in the manapol department. In fact, it would take two full containers of the enhancing powder to acquire the level of manapol contained in a single container of Ambrotose."
"Having admitted my mistake, let me shed some thoughts on how I, and my family, have faired taking my own formula without the full amount of the manapol. Some background about myself is probably in order before I proceed. I suffer from an autoimmune disease, Hashimoto’s thyroiditis, or, in other words, hypothyroidism. I was diagnosed about four years ago. I took the ambrotose for approximately a year before I started making it myself. During the time that I took the ambrotose, my health improved significantly. I wasn’t getting sick as much, and in fact I haven’t been sick with even a cold (knock wood) in more than a year. My homocysteine level, a marker for heart disease, was at an astronomical 47 even with taking medication. After three months on the ambrotose it became completely normal (I know this because I stopped taking the medication and solely relied on the ambrotose). My blood work, which was all over the map generally, all became normalized within six month after taking ambrotose. I felt better, had more energy, and my thyroid medication was reduced quite significantly as a result of taking ambrotose. How has my health faired over the last six months when I changed over to my homemade version? Absolutely no change! I still feel great, my recent blood work all came back normal, and my homocysteine level is still normal! What does this suggest to me? Well, for one thing, I suspect that the arabinogalactan plays a big part in the formula and maybe the manapol doesn’t play as much of a role. I can’t be sure, but all I know is that it is working and I am happy. By the way, I now have my whole family taking it (because of the lower cost) and they are very healthy as well. My kids (quite young) haven’t been sick at all for the past six months."
"A couple of other thoughts about the formula. First, I think I understand why Mannatech chooses rice starch as compared to corn starch which is referenced in the patent application as an alternative. The rice starch appears to help in the mixing process. It appears to me that the other powders mix better with the rice starch than with the corn starch. It’s not that it makes that much difference since both are only fillers, but it appears to mix better with the rice starch. Second, I will probably start to double or even triple the amount of manapol immune enhancing formula to get the pure manapol powder rate higher. Perhaps it is not necessary, but for the extra five to ten dollars a container, it's probably worth it. Third, if you really wanted to use the same amount of manapol that Mannatech uses, you could purchase the raw material (makes about 100 containers) but it would be a big up-front expense. I estimate that the cost per container for the combination of ingredients with the full amount of the manapol would run about thirty dollars to thirty-five dollars a container rather than twenty to twenty-five dollars a container. Still a lot cheaper than a hundred to a hundred and twenty-five dollars a container."
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I had already read this post and I have actually passed it on to several people just in case they decide they want to make their own glyconutrients. Frankly, I just don't have the time to do this - maybe some people do.
The many people I have shared the glyconutrients with and who have decided to consume them - ARE experiencing absolute, postive results.
ALSO, through my sharing of the health benefits of these nutritionals, the company has rewarded me - on top of earning enough to pay for my products, I have earned money - SO I think I came out ahead of this guy! My out of pocket expense - $0.00! I actually came out $80.00 to the good and I have blessed about 25 people with improved health. That is the reality and truth - argue all you want.
Please check out
http://www.livingsugars.com/stories.htm
for a glimpse of some STARTLING REALTIES!
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I appreciate the feedback, here's my takeaway from this topic: The "glyconutrients" - whether it be in the Mannatech product or homemade - do provide benefits to and improve one's health, particularly with the immune system - that seems to be fairly agreeable. There is disagreement as to whether those benefits result from the enhancement of cell-to-cell communication as Mannatech suggests via the absorption of the "essential" sugars, or if the ingredients simply get "processed" a certain way to improve health, sort of like how eating an apple versus a candy bar GENERALLY is a healthier option (I know, that's simplifying, I'm no medical expert so I am not familiar with the appropriate terms, but I think my point is clear). From what I gather, there is no product or nutrient(s) that has unequivocally been shown (through sufficient trials, etc.) to facilitate the undisputed SCIENCE of how the 8 sugars can be introduced to improve cell-to-cell communication. So, the question in my mind until that happens is how much BETTER those products will be if/when they are ever created OR, if the existing concoction really does this, then when will it be proven with no (little) debate.
Bottom line is, there is a product that you can create at one cost of $ and time, or buy from Mannatech for a certain $. The economic choice is each their own, and I really don't understand the continual debate about the $/ethics/whatever regarding this part of the issue, it's simply an individual economic decision to do either if you want to reap the benefits that presumably exist for this product.
Thanks for the input.
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Duane, thank you so much for your input on this topic! [:)]
What I take away from this (including my own follow-up research) is that Mannatech's promotion of "glyconutrients" is pure marketing hype with little connection to any sort of real science. Mannatech's marketing would be so much more credible if they could provide some science as to what their products actually do. From the little I've studied, I'm pretty sure I can do a better job of explaining how/why the prducts work than the company does. ...
The main ingredient of Ambrotose, Arabinogalactan, is also in a product I have been using as an immune-enhancing product. And it's in exactly the same proportion. A big difference is that the company making this product does not make huge claims for it other than activating one's immune system. And I've experienced remarkable results with this product. (The latest is that I averted a serious eye infection overnight -- having been in the hospital emergency room and probably unwisely rubbing my eyes, my eye was very sore last night, and I would normally have awakened with a crusting of pus, judging by past experience. But I took a couple capsules of this product and awoke clear-eyed with just a few grains of crusting around my eye lid. No pain either. Of course, this is hardly "scientific evidence. ;))
The product is based on Echinacea (the whole plant), with extra Arabinogalactan (which is also a natural ingredient of Echinacea), Astragalus membranaceous, Vitamin C, Vitamin E, Folic Acid, Zinc and Selenium.
I was impressed, in researching this product, that each of the ingredients has a specific effect on various cells which work together in the body's immune system. I was also awed by the complexity and specificity of the disease -fighting cells in our body.
Just, based on Arabinogalactan alone, I can see why Ambrotose "works." And the research on Manapol/Acemannan is impressive as well.
I can also see that the gums in Ambrotose may contribute to the immune-enhancing effect because they function as pro-biotics and provide food for beneficial intestinal bacteria -- just as any number of other products do. I'm not so sure that the rice starch has particular disease-fighting properties. [;)]
I do wonder about one thing, though. The company whose product I just described, suggests taking the product for 20 days, then going off it for 20 days because the immune-enhancing effect is reduced when one takes the products continuously. And the research on echinacea appears to support this recommendation.
I wonder about the effect of taking Ambrotose continuously, seeing that taking Echinacea continuously reduces its effectiveness and Arabinogalactan appears to be the main effective ingredient in Echinacea as well as in Ambrotose. (If I had a life-threatening illness, I would be tempted to try an Echinacea/Arabinogalactan-based producte and alternate it with a Manapol/Acemannan product while also taking pro-biotics and friendly bacterial cultures.)
Does anyone have further information on the effects of Ambrotose after taking it continuously for a couple years or so? (It's probably difficult to get objective information for lack of double-blind studies.)
(Personally I know of individuals who had terminal cancer, apparently experienced a remarkable "cure" with Ambrotose, then had a relapse and died within a year or two. I also know of individuals who took chemotherapy, experienced a remarkable "cure" and died within a year or so. I know of others who experienced a remission without drugs or special supplements but a change in lifestyle and diet alone. Some gained a year or two. Others lived much longer.)
And, as for testimonials of dramatic cures -- it's apparent that each "miracle cure" out there has plenty of them. How many of them are actual is anyone'e guess. The fact that Mannatech used photographs of a child with Tay-Sachs disease in an article to demonstrate the effectiveness of Mannatech products after the child had died and in violation of the parent's wishes does not inspire particular confidence in this company's integrity. (See www.mlmwatch.org/04C/Mannatech/complaint.html. Certainly the lawsuit for fraud and invasion of privacy is justified.)
But, quite aside from Mannatech company ethics, I am interested in follow-up on immune-enhancing substances found in Ambrotose and other products using similar ingredients.
Duane, are you still reading?
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Another question specifically for Duane ...
I thought you mentioned that Bill McAnalley originally noted that the human body has no enzymes to break down Manapol. Is that correct? (If so, I'd appreciate it if you could provide documentation for that original statement.)
Yet, on what I assume to be a company site, at http://www.glycobiologynews.com/content/view/12/2/, he lists Manapol as the source of mannose, a simple sugar. In order for that to be true, the Manapol would have to be broken down ..
What I don't recall you mentioning is whether or not Arabinogalactan is actually broken down into simple sugars in the body. (Please forgive me if I missed that.) On the page I referenced, McAnalley certainly implies that the body obtains five simple sugars from Arabinogalactan.
I'm pretty sure, though, that gum ghatti and gum tragacanth are indigestible by humans. Yet they are listed as "supplying" some of the "10 unique monosaccharides" to the body. (By the way,I realize that being indigestible doesn't mean they are of no use, since various types of fiber are extremely important in the human diet.)
I am wondering, though, about the kind of science practiced by scientists associated with Mannatech. First there was Darryl See (www.masmith.inspired.net.au/docs/mannatec.htm). Now McAnalley makes these claims ...
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Hi, I have really enjoyed reading this thread. I think diverse opinions are a good thing, it keeps us questioning "the powers that be" as well as ourselves and our own assumptions. Anyway, after reading the posts from feb. to sept. (the twins are in bed ;0) I felt that I had to add my own.
I have been taking ambrotose for about 6 weeks now. I actually started on the weight loss product to help me lose about 30 lbs and then decided to add the ambrotose after reading all of the info. And WOW, what a difference in my energy level! It really is amazing. I have only lost about 12lbs, which frankly, isn't any great loss and I may have lost on my own in 6 weeks without the product - who knows?! However, it is the "ease" of the weight loss that has fascinated me. I just have so much more energy - I WANT to exercise, I want to go for a bike ride with my kids - I feel GREAT! In addition, I suffer from pretty severe allergies and this time of year(harvest)is usually the worst for me with headaches, body aches, sinus pain, rashes and just general malaise. However, this year, so far I have felt better than I ever have during the harvest season.
I also want to clarify that this is the first time that I have EVER bought from a multi level marketing co and I do not sell it. A friend told me about it because her dad (age 75) had been taking the ambrotose for two years and said that he felt better than he had in his 60's.
I know that I am blessed to be able to afford ambrotose, it is pricey... I just know that it is worth it to me and I am praying that the wonderful results that I have had continue.
Keep up the excellent discussions, I look forward to checking back in...
twinmom
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Hi Twinmom,
Great to hear that you have added Glyconutrients to your diet. The changes in your health and stamina will inevitably continue to improve. I went through some detox for the first three weeks and felt fluish. Now I am feeling better and younger too.
Feel free to email me if you would like to talk about it more and I will share some of the recoveries that we are seeing. Isn't it amazing what the body can do when given the nutrients it requires? KC
His grace is sufficient and His strength is made perfect in my weakness
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Hello everyone...I'm new here,just call me Sally!
I came looking specifically for something on glyconutrients boy ! did I ever find it! I've been reading for two days, took info back to a couple other forums I'm on.....one of the other members on the forum and I got interested some time ago, decided to make our own, from the recipe from curezone, today was my first "dose" and am excited to start! The one forum is on psoriasis, the other is on alternative and complementary treatments.
Cathy have you heard of anyone clearing from the skin disease psoriasis? I went on a very restricted diet (DR Pagano's) did the slippery elm and American saffron tea and got clear! however I still have the scalp psoriasis......
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This forum is very educational and I appreciate everyone's views,even if I dont agree with some of the opinions that question the integrity and ethics of Mannatech. I would like to suggest that you read "Undeniable Destiny" by Linda Caster to get a better understanding of Mannatech's mission and goals. This is a company with a heart and all of the people I have met who are involved with this company are more interested in helping people verses making money off of the weak and vulnerable. This is a new science. I have no doubt that research will ultimately answer the metabolic pathway questions raised in this forum; how do polysaccarides convert to monosaccharides; how are glyconutrients digested?, what mechanisms in glyconutrients help modulate the immune system, what is the role of stem cells regarding glyconutrients....it wasnt that long ago that the glucose theory was proven wrong and we now know that these essential sugars have a much more important role than just providing energy. Anyways, my best advise to anyone out there who is skeptical is to just try it and make a commitment to give it enough time to work. Thank you all for listening to my opinion
Jeanne
BodyHealThyself@aol.com
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hi arteest
i was wondering what you started on, i have a similar skin condition that i got about 6 months ago which has caused me serious distress, my skin is constantly tingling and burning and i have been under supervision of a chinese herbalist and naturopath with no joy..
interesting to see how you get on, i am also a curezone trawler....
hope it works out
best
pete
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Hi Pete....I experienced a clearing from the psoriasis by following Dr. Pagano's diet and taking the two herbs slippery elm powder (mixed in hot water) and American saffron tea.......the scalp P never cleared so I'm trying glyconutrients for that as well as getting the body in shape...just for overall health...
If you are interested in viewing the P forum here is a link
http://www.psoriasis.org/forum/index.php?
I post mostly in the alternative and complementary forums on the NPF board. My name is GitOverIt.....[:D] the other forums are mostly into the drugs used for P
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Jeanne...I have nothing negative to say about Mannatech in fact everything I have read HAS been positive.....and In my opinion they and the distributors are doing a good job of keeping it that way....my problem is being retired and not able to afford this for myself and DH. So I'm making my own and trying it out to see how well we do.And I know I could become a distributor and get the powder that way but I think not, at this point!
But I am going to look for that book[:D]
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Hi Areteest,
I personally don't know of recoveries with psoriasis, however I do know that glyconutrition excels with autoimmune.
Please let us know of your progress . Are you consuming glyconutrient powder? How much? Any other supplementation?
http://www.livingsugars.com/stories.htm
This link shows a young lady with a severe rash. It cleared using glyconutrition.
Take care, KC
His grace is sufficient and His strength is made perfect in my weakness
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thanks Cathy I would appreciate that....I belong to the National Psoriasis Foundation and am active on their forum so there are more that will want to hear how this person does.
I have always been a supplement taker...EFA's,milk thistle, spirulina, chlorella, B complex,
cod liver oil for A and D and sun for Vit D3 short spurts (very good for psoriasis)fulvic acid, blueberries in my glyco smoothie. etc I am not short of supplements.[:D]
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Hi Pete and Cathy. For stories on psoriasis go to the following link and click on "skin" There are 21 people in that category who have recorded their experience of adding glyconutrients to their diets.
www.Glycostory.com/BodyHealThyself. I am glad you are going to check out the book "Undeniable Destiny"
-Jeanne
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well i went to a mannatech meeting seminar last night, dr. steve nugent was there.
I got to chat to him but i didn't have the time to discuss what has been said on this board. He kept saying that the research is there because if it wasn't then they wouldn't have 18 countries patenting it.
I thought it was ok the seminar, usual selling malarky, and ranting on about how great mannatech is, the proof is in the pudding really.
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quote:
Originally posted by robbojnr
hi arteest
i was wondering what you started on, i have a similar skin condition that i got about 6 months ago which has caused me serious distress, my skin is constantly tingling and burning and i have been under supervision of a chinese herbalist and naturopath with no joy..
interesting to see how you get on, i am also a curezone trawler....
Hi Pete, What you describe is very different from psoriasis. (Five males in my family had/have psoriasis.) Of course, we can't diagnose you over the internet, but it just so happens that I've heard of people reporting a similar condition after eating too many buckwheat sprouts.
Think back of what changed in your life between 9 months and 6 months ago, and then explore what those changes could have caused. Did you move? Did you change your diet?
You didn't say how much of your skin feels that way. Shingles can make your skin feel that way -- but it's not usually all over the body.
Inga
Put a smile on someone's face with http://smile-starters.com
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About Psoriasis ...
As I said, five males in my family had/have psoriasis. My husband had a very bad case most of his life, and nothing much seemed to help, except sunshine in the summer.
Aside from a good vitamin supplement, what seems to have made the difference is the regular addition of flax seed oil & flax seed to his diet. Flax seed contains Omega 3 fatty acids, and other Omega 3 fatty acids would work as well, I suspect.
You have nothing to lose and much to gain because Omega 3 fatty acids added to the typical North American diet can make a dramatic difference in a number of ways. If you're not vegan, as we are, you probably won't mind taking fish oil from cold-water wish. That's probably cheaper, except that I hope you like a fishy flavor.
Try taking 1 tablespoon of oil twice a day for a month, and see what difference it makes.
By the way, could somebody summarize Dr. Pagano's diet or provide an URL to a web site?
Inga
PS The ones in my family who still have psoriasis couldn't be bothered with a lifestyle change. Junk food is not good for it.
Put a smile on someone's face with http://smile-starters.com
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Hi Inga.......Dr. Pagano has a book out with loads of info...you would like his diet it is very much veggies and fruits! however it is not a vegan diet unless you want it to be! He allows chicken, fish, lamb....but stresses no nightshades which are inflammatory vegetables.
They are green peppers, (not black, different ilk)white potatoes, eggplant,tomatoes, paprika, tobacco. He also goes into the 80%/20% food ratio,keeping the blood slightly alkaline with a pH of 7.3 to 7.5, in chemical reaction in order to maintain the optimum in gen. health and immunity.Lots of water to drink, oils to use on body, there is so much and well worth the money ($24.95)you might find a used copy on amazon! I use mine for reference all the time....full of info.
Sally
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Where is everyone....I keep checking back and....nothing?
I have been on homemade recipe of glycos for 31 days! The psoriasis I had gotten rid of through Dr. Pagano's diet etc is back....not as bad and it seems some of the spots pop out and then disappear....however there are others that have stayed and grown larger......eek! I'm assuming this is a die-off or something (hopefully) One thing I should mention is I was taking 1 tablespoon of the glyco but have cut it back to half that about a week ago. Anyone else try the glyconutrients? and have anything to report?
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Areteest...and all
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oops...sorry,
One thing to keep in mind when you start on glyconutrients is that your cells will begin to dump toxins...this is called a correcting response and is a good thing. Shows you that your body is kicking into gear and doing what is should!
It has been a while since I have posted, looks like there a good number of newbies here...welcome! Just as a refresher...Our family has seen enormous results with glyconutrients!!! We would have lost our son without them and we are very grateful! The story is way to long for this forum so, as always, anyone is welcome to e-mail me with questions! emmerich2314@msn.com
Rene
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Not to be taken personal. I am just noting something that the average non-researcher might not notice about your references for clarity.
Recognize that the study that Kitticat gives links to on glyconutrients (polysulfated fucoidans in this case) and increasing stem-cells was a study where the glyconutrients were "injected" into the animals, not taken orally. Thereby bypassing the digestive system.
While these substances may or may not have similar effects on stem cells when taken orally, the results of this study does not translate to the same effects if taking these supplements by swallowing them, where they have to pass through the digestive system and may or may not be absorbed, and if absorbed, may be broken up into simpler molecules, which would be different than the whole molecules that were injected directly into these animals.
A simple example of this is that insulin, needed by Type 1 diabetics, must be injected, because it wouldn't work taking it by mouth. ("oral" drugs for type 2 diabetics are not insulin, but drugs that increase your body's sensitivity to insulin).
One of the questions not asked by this study is "are similar receptors found within the intestine that these substances could bind to and have an effect on the cytokines that stimulate the release of SDF-1?"
Also, was Rob taking the original glyconutrient product, or the "advanced" form? The original product has only one ingredient that contains fucose, less than 100 mg in a 1 tsp serving. Whereas the advanced form contains the sulfated fucoidans similar to the ones used in the study, though not injected of course. How much was he taking, how often, and you mentioned that he had been taking other supplements as well. Since these may have an impact on what others would suggest to their friends, these should be listed too for a more complete picture.
Thanks,
Duane
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I have not posted here recently, but I have visited often. It is interesting to read and observe the comments relating to this new technology regarding glyconutritionals. There will always be the skeptics, but I say the "proof is in the pudding" so to speak!
Not only have I dealt with Lyme Disease and something being called "Morgellons", but my lab reports for the last 20 years have revealed I have something called NASH or non-alcoholic Hepatitis (fatty liver). My liver enzymes have been highly elevated in the past.
My blood pressure has also been elevated, as well as my cholesterol.
All I have changed so far in my life is to add the glyconutritionals and try to drink more water.
My blood pressure has come down, my cholesterol is so low now it is off the chart low and my liver enzymes have stablized in the normal range after being way up there!
THAT is very exciting to me! I have no current Lyme symptoms, so that is significant as well.
Others can skepticize, ridicule and criticize all they want to, but this is one person who is SOLD on what glyconutrients provide for the body to repair and restore itself. I will keep taking them!
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I found this forum today, in researching any further developments in the field of glyconutritionals. Interesting discussion.
I'll probably be considered "inflammatory", but as it seems I am the ONLY one posting here that actually got "sold" on the Mannatech right away, signed up to be a distributor, though I dislike MLM intensely, AND took the Mannatech products for an extended period of time, and was absolutely NOT helped by the products. Not I, not my family. I feel I was sold a bill of goods, to profit others. That this is in part true, is due to the fact, that I have been approached twice, to relinquish my spot "on the food chain" of Mannatech, to an "active seller". I said SURE, just tell them to reimburse me the money I had to pay to get in the line! I've never received a penny of money from the company or sales of the product, I just SPENT LOTS.
I had several friends, who are now way UP in the hierarchy of the chain, who claimed to be helped by the products, sold me on "getting in", and they are still in. Though they all said they wanted to help others with the profits they made from selling, none of them really did then, or have they since. My involvement with Mannatech began in 1998. My experience with this company is that they turn you into little robots, it is a "culture" and you are strongly encouraged to attend their meetings, listen to their constant phone calls, to the point you have no life that is not with people associated with the company and the products. You simply do not have time. I was encouraged to infiltrate my church and social groups with the products and "sell" my other friends: after all, I was "helping them" be healthier. When I expressed concern over this, and stated that I just wanted to let people ask me about it if they wanted to, I was told I wasn't enthusiastic enough.
I am a former medical student, who has never stopped studying, researching, and educating myself on nutrition. I quit school because I felt that there were better ways to help people than a PhD in genetics. Yep, I was going to get into the cellular level and hoped to heal serious disease. I had a full scholarship, too, so I am not a slouch in the intelligence department, nor do I lack the ability to learn.
I have studied everything and everyone from Adele Davis and Euell Gibbons, to the most current protocols in traditional Western medicine, and all alternative medicines. Despite my best efforts, and proper diet, organic, clean water, supplementation, exercise, etc., I still became seriously ill. I have found several things that have helped me. But these products have not.
Moore4u mentioned that she has NASH... well, so do I, just recently diagnosed. I am also a recently diagnosed Type II diabetic, with fibromyalgia. I don't know whether I'll try mixing my own concoction and trying it again, but I know I won't be buying from the company store.
I had a friend with Lyme disease, it didn't help her at all with it.
Someone else very dear to me, in my family, died from pancreatic cancer at age 43, it didn't help him at all.
One of the upline's parents had diabetes, and they claimed he was being helped by taking Ambrotose, and all the other products, but he was taking 3 heaping teaspoons of Ambrotose a day! If they hadn't been providing it for him, I doubt he would have been taking it. It did help him some, in that he was able to reduce his insulin injections, but he died of diabetes related complications all the same.
I know ONE person who said she was helped by the products... and she took ALL of them, in at least double doses; she had chronic fatigue syndrome.
Yes, I took the products in more than normal dosages, as did my husband and son, for nearly a year. We couldn't really afford it financially, but we wanted to be healthier, so we did without a lot of other things. So, here you have a person posting that they did NOT benefit from Mannatech. BTW, the word Manna?
It actually means, "What is it?" Do a Bible research on the subject. So, that's sort of what I think about Mannatech... "What is it, really?"
Falariel
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Great post. I hope that you will take the time to share your story at the Curezone.com glyconutrients support forum as well. It is good for people to see both sides of a story.
There are many many different nutritional supplements/therapies, and they all have their proponents. Many of these advocates are also people who had great benefits from these therapies. Just because they work for some, doesn't mean they are the miracle cure for others. And just because they don't work for some doesn't mean they are worthless either.
The female friend who introduced me to these supplements had a great response, and thinks they are a miracle cure for everything. She is so excited about them, she often ignores those people who report getting no benefit. One mutual male friend had a few days that his chronic pain was better, then it returned just as bad as ever. The first friend told many people about his "miraculous" response, but neglected to mention about the return of the pain. He had to ask her to stop telling people about his pain and response. To his credit however, he has continued to take the supplements for the last year, but he can't say for sure if they have helped, but the company sends him a check each month to from others who are taking them, so he doesn't have to pay for them, so he keeps taking them.
As research is done into the actual mechanisms of action of these supplements, it will give us a better idea of whom they will help, and whom they won't, and other ways to maximize their benefits where appropriate. This is where being open to ideas and research that may differ from the preconceived explanations will be important.
Duane
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"It is not...that some people do not know what to do with truth when it is offered to them, but the tragic fate is to reach, after patient search, a condition of mind- blindness, in which the truth is not recognized, though it stares you in the face."
-Sir William Osler, physician, 1849-1919
Duane complains about not being able to understand my posts. I do not believe that he is stupid or “mind blind.”. I believe that he is fraudulent. He has spent the past year trashing the 8 essential sugars hypothesis, cell to cell communication, and especially the M/T associates who post based on that theory, across the internet forums. He has repeatedly for the past year said that there are no studies or scientific evidence to back it up. Now I present two recent studies that support it all, and he ignores the evidence, and claims that it backs up what he has been preaching, that Ambrotose cannot provide more than one essential sugar because it must be digested in the colon into SCFAs (short chain fatty acids). Read my previous post and you can see what he ignored to pull his quote. You can make up your own mind as to which of us is accurately representing the facts. Again, here is a shortened excerpt of the quotes:
“Like B. thetaiotaomicron, each of these species resides in the distal small intestine/colon. “
So we have this bacteria specie residing in the small intestine, where most absorption of monosaccharides takes place, satisfying one of Duane’s objections.
“More than half of the carbohydrate-degrading enzymes produced by B. thetaiotaomicron are predicted to be secreted into the periplasmic or extracellular space and thus, in principle, are capable of liberating oligo- and monosaccharides from undigested dietary polysaccharides and host mucus for consumption by B. thetaiotaomicron, other members of the microbiota, or the host…”
And now we have monosaccharides being liberated for consumption of the “host.” Did anyone other than Duane miss that? He won’t admit that he has been wrong for the past year. Is it that he has an emotional investment in being right and not admitting the possibility of having made a mistake? So much for his academic and intellectual integrity! He has moved from being mistaken, to being dishonest….and I still don’t believe that he is stupid or mind-blind.
For anyone who has been trashed and invalidated by Duane in previous posts on this or other forums, feel free to use the information on these posts accordingly to correct his errors.
musashi
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Dear Falariel,
I am sorry to hear of your difficulties with glyconutrition.
I can relate to your frustration and have had my own to deal with off and on.
When I first learned of glyconutrients I was thrilled at the science and results.
I rushed to help a family member with astrocytoma grade 3 brain cancer and a friend with GBM grade four brain cancer at the same time.
While trying to save their lives with this technology (at my own expense, time and money)
I went through a lot of ups and downs, both emotionally and financially.
The end result was they both lost their battle, however they both had more time with their families and had a peaceful death. I believe this was a direct result of them using glyconutrition.
At that same time I was also aware of a friend with TBI, (traumatic brain injury) and though he was in a vegetated state, he was starting to show rapid signs of improvement after the family added glyconutrition to his diet.
His progress in a nutshell was coming from a vegetated state, to now talking in complex terms, eating every thing instead of being tube fed, having control of his body, and he is now starting to be trained to walk again. A recent brain scan confirmed new brain tissue development.
As you can imagine, (since I was going through all of this at the same time) this was more than I could sort through.
While I was deeply grieved at losing my loved ones at the same time I was rejoicing at the recovery in progress with this young man.
I almost gave up hope that glyconutrition could help anyone. I am glad that I didn't and so are many others. Though not all will get the miracle they may be looking for, I believe all can benefit to one degree or another. I would be happy to talk more about this if you want to.
I believe (through personal results) that you can increase absorption through various avenues.
My own family has benefited while using glyconutrition and have either recovered partially or fully from:
Severe seasonal and bee sting allergies, gout, nerve damage, herpes, shingles, chronic fatigue, and other various health issues.
If I can help please free to email me God bless, KC
His grace is sufficient and His strength is made perfect in my weakness
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FYI is "Musashi" from the curezone.com glyconutrient support forums. Since he is posting his old posts from that forum here, I will copy my reply. Those interested in the results of glyconurtients and not interested in the science of glyconutrients need not read further.
______________________________________
I apologize to Musashi.
I am so used to him repetitively bringing up things and quoting research that have nothing to do with making his point that I didn't read his previous posts in close enough detail. Good job Musashi, there is hope for you yet.
Thanks for the information on B. Thetaiotamicron. Now there is a fascinating little creature. I have perused further literature on this bug, and you are correct, it does have the capability of hydrolyzing beta-linked polysaccharides and is found in approx. 92% of the human population in the distal small intestine and the colon, often in amounts that are greater than e.coli. So it is feasible that at least some of the monosaccharides could be absorbed for glycoconjugate synthesis.
Again, let me reiterate, if the "bird flu" were to hit America tomorrow, we would both be recommending the same ingredients to our friends to support their immune system. We both believe in the benefits of these ingredients, we just disagree on the mechanism.
Now, if you read through my post of 9/30/2005 11:15:00 AM (13 days ago) "Re: Try reading and accurately responding to my post." you will note that I outlined MANY problems with Mannatech's hypothesis that show it is not a rational hypothesis as a mechanism of action for these substances, even if some of the sugars are absorbed. Mannatech's explanation has multiple problems at multiple levels, not just the digestion one. (and I'm not going to even cover the fallacy of us being "deficient" in these sugars)
So let's say that this micro-organism does indeed hydrolize these ingredients into monosaccharides.
* We already know that these glyconutrient ingredients all cause a substantial increases in SCFA's, so a large amount are being metabolized by this microorganism and the many others that live in the distal intestines. So a large amount would not be available for absorption. How much is being lost here? 50%, 60%, 90% of the dose?
* Lets say that 100% is being liberated for absorption (which we have the research to show isn't happening). A one teaspoon dose of Ambrotose contains 1.76g of "ambrotose complex." (.44g per 1/4 tsp recommended serving). This then would contain: (ingredient followed the the saccharides that it is made of)
- 48% Larch Arabinogalactan (~850 mg)
- --arabinose, galactose
- 10% Manapol (~176 mg)
- --mannose
- 10% Gum Tragacanth (~176 mg)
- --galactose, arabinose, xylose, fucose, rhamnose, galacturonic acid
- 10% Gum Ghatti (~176 mg)
- --arabinose, galactose, mannose, xylose, glucuronic acid
- 10% Glucosamine HCL (~176 mg)
- --glucosamine
- 12% Rice starch (~211 mg)
- --Glucose
As an example, when you consider that Galactose is produced at a rate of about 0.53-1.05 mg/kg per hour, equivalent to ~850mg to 1760 mg per day of just this one sugar in fasting adult men (Berry 1995), and constant levels of fucose are found in urine of both adults and children (Endo 1980). The levels of each monosaccharide that this supplement provides is ridiculously miniscule when you consider that the largest percentage of it is galactose and glucose, which are not usually low in the human diet anyway.
(Berry GT, Nissim I, Lin Z, Mazur AT, Gibson JB, Segal S. Endogenous synthesis of galactose in normal men and patients with hereditary galactosaemia. Lancet. 1995 Oct 21;346(8982):1073-4. Endo M, Matsue H, Sato S, Majima M, Hiyama N. Enzymic determination of urinary free L-fucose. Clin Chim Acta. 1980 May 9;103(3):269-75.)
Clinical studies of these sugars most often used gram amounts to see physiological effects. The pharmacokinetic section of the glycoscience.com website repetitively states "It is difficult to determine what a minimum amount of ______ (insert your favorite saccharide here) should be as a dietary supplement, since dose-response data for ______ health effects are again lacking."
Since the amounts of some of these sugars in each polysaccharide is just a small part of the whole, (such as fucose only a small fraction of Tragacanth) the actual amount of each sugar is extremely minute. And that is presupposing that (1) the hundreds of microorganisms that are present don't metabolize it first, and (2) it is liberated in the distal small intestine where it can still be absorbed (as opposed to the colon where it is unlikely to be absorbed). But we already know that a substantial amount of these sugars are being metabolized by the microorganisms, including B. Thetaiotamicron, so the amounts of sugar from these ingredients would be extremely small.
Again, as I stated before, you have to ask some significant questions:
* If 8 sugars are necessary (though 2 of them, glucose and galactose are readily found in the diet) why make a supplement with only 6 of the sugars, and only 4 of them which are not as readily found in the diet instead of all 8? Especially since the glycoscience.com website goes out of its way to show they (the individual monosaccharides)are all absorbed when taken orally.
* Why use one of the most expensive forms of Aloe Vera which has the longest chains of acemannan (beta-linked mannose polysaccharide), when individual Mannose has been shown to be absorbed and is readily available. If it was the mannose having the effect, then lower molecular weight aloe extracts should work better because there is less to break down, or better yet D-Mannose powder.
* If you elect to not use the actual monosaccharides for the supplement (which wouuld produce better absorption), and if there is difficulty digesting these polysaccharide ingredients, why not either add simple enzymes to the mixture that would break these ingredients into the monosaccharides in the small intestine and make more of them available for absorption. These are readily available as supplements on the internet.
* If Glucose and galactose are not deficient in the diet according to most of the papers on glycoscience.com, why is this supplement more than 50% galactose/glucose?
* Not one glycoprotein (glycoconjugate) has been shown to be increased by taking these supplements, and the amounts of sugars possibly absorbed is extremely small, (if any gets past the microorganisms), yet there is a large amount of research showing known effects of these supplements on human physiology that doesn't involve glycoconjugate synthesis, so why continue to hold to the 8 sugar hypothesis as the main mechanism when it has the least support (if any)?
The reason this company doesn't use the 8 individual sugars in their supplement is because the 8 individual sugars WILL NOT have the physiological effects that these complex polysaccharides have. Because the effects are not secondary to improving sugar availability. I have already pointed out that mannose, xylose, glucose, galactose, glucosamine and fucose are readily available on the internet. Try a combination of these and see how many people it helps.
Check out articles such as "Schiffrin EJ, Donnet A, Blum S. How can we impact the immune system with pre- and probiotics?
Nestle Nutr Workshop Ser Clin Perform Programme. 2005;10:203-13; discussion 213-7. Review. No abstract available." and "Lochs H. Interaction between nutrition, intestinal flora and the gastrointestinal immune system.
Nestle Nutr Workshop Ser Clin Perform Programme. 2005;10:179-85; discussion 185-8. Review. No abstract available." as well as many, many others.
Studies have shown that various combinations of different soluble fibers can change the relative amounts of each SCFA produced, and may be another way that the specific combination of ingredients found in MT's main glyconutritional supplement. Also, the complexity of these soluble fibers (such as arabinogalactan, manapol) make it an effective prebiotic much farther along the colon than the FOS and inulin which are almost totally metabolized in the 1st part of the colon (cecum), which would give them physiological effects along greater areas of the immune tissues associated with the intestine. There are other effects of these substances as well, such as increasing activity and amount of antioxidant enzymes in the mucosa and the liver, and decreasing circulating free fatty acids, and more. (free fatty acids decrease insulin sensitivity for one thing).
I do greatly appreciate the article on this microorganism that I was unaware of, and I have been fascinated reading the details of this organism (did you know that this microorganism will cause your own intestinal mucosa to produce the fucose the bacteria can eat when there is no other food around. Otherwise your intestinal mucosa normally stops producing fucose after it matures.) However, by this far into the diegestive tract, and because the microorganisms in the digestive tract are known to metabolize a lot of these substances (if not most), the amount that would be absorbed would be miniscule at best. SO WHY USE THESE INGREDIENTS IF YOU ARE REALLY DEFICIENT IN THESE SUGARS???
Remember, we are not discussing IF they work, just how. Ask yourself What is your vested interest in the 8 sugar hypothesis? Start from the beginning, look at all the facts and research, or the lack thereof. If you didn't know the 8 sugar hypothesis that MT promotes, what conclusions would you draw? Would you still come to their conclusion? What if you weren't an associate of this company, and weren't making money by selling the "8 sugar deficiency" hypothesis, would you still hold so tenaciously to an hypothesis which has almost no support when so many other mechanisms have already been elicited that explain many of the benefits?
Good luck
P.S. I'm in the process of writing a paper on glyconutrients, the myths and mechanisms, and the information on the B. Thetaiotamicron is very helpful, thank you very much.
Duane.
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hello.
I have Hereditary Coproporphyria, possibly Harderoporphyria (a subset), and a mixed DX of Varigated Porphyria--I inherited it from BOTH parents. It is a genetic disorder of the Heme pathway--means the stuff that makes blood red and binds oxygen to my cells is not complete due to a molecule(or two) missing in the pathway. Hemoglobin itself cannot bind oxygen--it has to have a protein ring that 'grabs' the molecule and carries it--my rings are not complete because the basic building blocks are not there. So the rings break down and become useless--toxic. Anything that stimulates the cytochrome p450 response in my liver is bad news as this engages this process and causes even more toxins released into my body. They collect along nerves and create Peripheral Neuropathy that can be life-threatening if it involves nerves in my respiratory system. Usually it involves automnic nerves and CNS. I suffer the effects of not enough oxygen on a cellular level and also the poisoning of the nerves.
Triggers range from dietic to environmental to chemical. It is a very difficult disease to manage. Glucose is used to slow the metabolic process and it also helps ease the toxic load by flushing the porphyrins out of the body thru the kidneys. Needless to say this will eventually take its toll on the kidneys, adrenals, and pancreas.
So here is my question....will glyconutrients help or hurt me?
it sounds like in theory they could help. However, I cannot afford to be the guinea pig here since it could kill me or cause irreversible damage. My body does not work like a normal body. I do not have something causing my disease--my disease is because I do not have all the molecules I need on a genetic level. Any ideas? Any REAL scientific facts--not just theories?
Se non potete resistere al calore, allora esca dalla MIA cucina.
Ravyn, Lady Heresy
Join my group! for former Jehovahs Witnesses and anyone formerly associated with them! Check out the webpage and follow the links! http://www.geocities.com/ladylvsnyt/FormerJehovahsWitnesses.html
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it just occurred to me--if this particular product is mostly glucose---could it be that the people who are being 'helped' by it may be unDxd Porphyrics? It is a rare disease, but by no means unheard of, and in fact very common in certain parts of the world with hereditary factors (South Africa it is common and traced to one Dutch immigrant in the 1500's).
Se non potete resistere al calore, allora esca dalla MIA cucina.
Ravyn, Lady Heresy
Join my group! for former Jehovahs Witnesses and anyone formerly associated with them! Check out the webpage and follow the links! http://www.geocities.com/ladylvsnyt/FormerJehovahsWitnesses.html
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My opinion based on the pathophysiology of your condition and what is known about glyconutrients, (from a person who has no financial interest in these supplements), is that there is no way to tell what effect they would have on your symptoms. Any suggestion one way or another would be pure speculation, unless there is someone out there with this rare condition who had a good or bad experience.
Good luck
Duane.
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Dear RavynG,
Welcome to the forum. I think you will find what is on this DVD to be very encouraging.
http://glycotools.com/products.asp?p=446
I am aware of several people with genetic disorders that have been help, especially when it is used at a young age.
Will it help you? Will it extend your life and give you a better quality of life? I believe it will. Do glyconutrients give the body the ability to heal it's own DNA? I don't know.
Some children with genetic disorders have been helped immensely and appear to be experiencing reversal of the condition they were born with.
Let me know if I can help,
God bless, KC
His grace is sufficient and His strength is made perfect in my weakness
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here's the thing--I can understand something restoring the use of an injured or deficient arm....but what if you born without an arm at all? will this grow an arm? Porphyria is not a defective gene--it is a missing gene.
does anyone know if these glyconutrients utilize the cytochrome p450 metabolic pathway in the liver to break down? this is what I have to avoid. where are these sugars digested? how are they used by the cells and where do they go once they are used?
Se non potete resistere al calore, allora esca dalla MIA cucina.
Ravyn, Lady Heresy
Join my group! for former Jehovahs Witnesses and anyone formerly associated with them! Check out the webpage and follow the links! http://www.geocities.com/ladylvsnyt/FormerJehovahsWitnesses.html
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Hi RG,
I don't think that glyconutrients will be a problem for you since it is a part of our biological make up.
I have sent you 2 files that should help you and your doctor come to the same conclusion.
Let us know how things are going for you,
God bless, KC
His grace is sufficient and His strength is made perfect in my weakness
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thanks KC--I saved it to check it out later when I have more time. The thing I find so frustrating with 'nutritional' supplements and such is that most of the people who 'believe' in them--not saying you do--think that just because they are natural or can be found in the human body that they are safe. Sulfur, Iron, Terpenes--all are 'natural' chemicals, and found in the normal human body and in 'safe' vitamins, supplements and even hygeine products--yet to a person with Porphyria they can kill in a matter of minutes. I have had a bad reaction in the past with aloe--and I understand that mannose is from aloe. I don't KNOW if it was the sugar that caused the reaction---but I also don't know if it is only the sugar used in this product. Some Porphyrics cannot use corn sugar which is the major source of glucose. Alot of my Porph friends have good results with galactose and lactose--but ONLY in milk and ONLY when it is ice cold--if the sugar is taken out these same people react badly to it. So I guess there is no real answer for me. Thank you for trying.
Se non potete resistere al calore, allora esca dalla MIA cucina.
Ravyn, Lady Heresy
Join my group! for former Jehovahs Witnesses and anyone formerly associated with them! Check out the webpage and follow the links! http://www.geocities.com/ladylvsnyt/FormerJehovahsWitnesses.html
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Hi RG,
What form of Aloe did you use?
I know your situation is a fragile one. I haven't ever heard of any difficulties with glyconutrients even when large quantities are used.
In the meantime I will try to find out more regarding your question.
Let us know how you are doing. Take care, KC
P.S. from what I understand at least five of the eight (essential sugars for humans) are in breast milk. Because of this, it is evident that the body is able to assimilate these sugars, otherwise why would it be there?. Exactly how are they assimilated? I don't think anyones knows that answer yet. Thankfully the body knows.
His grace is sufficient and His strength is made perfect in my weakness
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I heard about glyconutrients this weekend from someone selling the product. I would like to hear the real scoop from someone not SELLING it, preferably someone in the scientific community who has knowleldge about these 8, so called, magic glyconutrients. Are they real, do they exist or is this another money making scheme like cortislim, etc. I have a friend battling cancer but don't want to offer false hope or spend a bundle of money for a placebo. I found all kinds of information on the internet from sellers, obviously not unbiased.
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Andrew, You clearly have no idea what pyramid sales is! Why dont you look up the definition of Network Marketing and Pyramid Sales. I will explain the difference if you still dont understand.
how can you dis a company that helps so many people both financially and in their health?
quote:
Originally posted by Andrew K Fletcher
Main component of Glyconutrients is revealed by careful analysis.
It consists of 99.9% SPAM
The tins of SPAM are arranged in bulk to form a giant pyramid
This Pyramid emits a ray of false hope quickly seized upon by thousands of people who are out to earn a quick buck off the backs of people desperate for anything that offers a remote chance of assisting illnesses that are often life threatening and to which allopathic medicine is not producing any significant improvements.
The pyramid has already produced over 89 thousand hits on a google search using its name as a search term and the 16th of May 2005!
There has obviously been a tremendous amount of money generated by this pyramid selling scam, and one would expect that this licence to print money could easily produce and reproduce scientific, placebo based double blinded trials to prove or disprove its efficacy.
Yet this is simply not happening, All we see is the emergence of many unsubstantiated individual case histories, expressing somewhat miraculous claims.
The sad part about this, is that it will inevitably add to the FDA’s and Eurocrats armoury against food supplements, many of which do indeed offer significant benefits to people who wish to avoid the myriad side effects from prescription drugs.
There is a move to have many of our vitamins and food supplements removed from the shelves of health stores, or to have their potency reduced to levels where they are useless, and this scam is playing right into the FDA and Eurocrats arms! When this SPAM Pyramid bubble burst, and it will! The vultures will simply find another carcass to gorge upon.
I f this product does what it is supposed to do, You won’t even have to change the oil in your engine, houses will build themselves, the dead will rise again, and the deserts will turn green and flourish.
Where is the hard evidence????????????????????????????????????????????
Glyconutrients will play a major role in what economists are predicting to be the next trillion-dollar industry- the Wellness Industry. Are you ready to take your piece of the trillion-dollar pie by marketing and educating others about Glyconutrients and their benefits? Anyone who cares about their health and the health of others can be successful in this business if they are teachable, coachable and trainable. Your primary mission is to expose people to this information and let the educational and support tools to educate your prospects about the benefits of the products and the business opportunity. Does that sound like something you can do? And with our team approach, even though you are in business for yourself, you are never by yourself. You'll love the support system.
I remember being roped in to a Foreverliving products seminar, thanks to a friend who would insist that we were going to earn many thousands of pounds with minimum outlay. I told her it was a scam, and sure enough, this guy was trying to convince us that he experienced a miracle or three after taking alovera juice. He apparently healed his injuries, an internal medical problem, all the pain left his body, and he grew a third leg to boot. I had heard enough within a few minutes and we got up and left.. But there were several hundred people that didn’t leave, all with a blank expression shielded by £ signs in their brains.
Another venue when I was a lot younger was Golden Products, this was a range of household cleaning stuff, grossly over priced and sold under a pyramid scheme. My friend and I went to London and stayed in a hotel free of charge. But our reason for being there was to have a day in London at their expense, skipping out on all the bull. We had a great time thanks to them
I ASK AGAIN: WHERE IS THE HARD EVIDENCE FOR THE EFFICACY OF THIS PRODUCT? A quick search on pubmed produced 2 returns, from 2 vague trials, which lead me to ask, where is all the money going????? Maybe they have donated to the Tsunami victims families?
Andrew
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I have just recently heard about glyconutrients. I read a testimony about a Dr. Benjamin Solomon Carson who attributess glyconutrients to curing prostate cancer in himself.
The article also said,"One study showed that people who added glyconutrients to their diets developed stem cell from their own bone marrow that resulted in the migration of the cells into damaged organs. Medical scientists concluded that these new cells replaced damaged or diseased one."
My question is this: mydaughter was born with a neuro-muscular disease that makes her muscles so weak that she can't even breathe on her own. For the last 15 years, she has been in bed on a ventilator. Could glyconutrients help her?
I found a recipe for making my own stuff, since money is always a factor. How much would she have to take to show an improvement?
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Quick question
Does anyone know the web address of a place to get the gum ghatti?
The other ingredients are easy to find, but the ghatti seems to be harder to find.
I need to find a place that would sell the ghatti to individuals (non business).
Thanx
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You can try contacting "pilotlight" at the curezone forum.
http://curezone.com/forums/m.asp?f=223&i=1547
He bought some in large bulk and is making it available for others.
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Did you forget to mention that Pilotlight is making a profit?
His downline is looking pretty hefty.
Thus, we see the birthing of a new network marketing company and a new maketing forum.
It's a beautiful thing.
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Thanks for the response.
Yes, I was aware of the person at curezone.
It's just that I'm not totally comfortable buying from an unknown person on some forum. I was actually hoping to buy from an esatblished business.
Anyway, I read over there at curezone that gum Arabic might sort of be a substitute for the gum Ghatti. But then again, in the new Advanced Ambrotose formula the Gum Arabic (acacia) is the first ingredient, and Gum ghatti is the 6th listed ingredient. So since they include both, the Arabic may not be an exact substitute.
And unfortunately, the Gum ghatti from Spectrum Chemicals is not food grade. So close, yet so far :-)
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It is an interesting topic. If you believe the notion that these ingredients supply the "8 essential sugars" and then note which sugars are from each of these ingredients you will find that:
1. Larex deciduas (arabinogalactan)
Providing: arabinose, galactose (Whister et al. 1970)
2. Anogeissus latifolia (gum ghatti)
Providing: arabinose, galactose, mannose, xylose, glucuronic acid (Merck Index, 1996)
3. Astragulus gummifer (gum tragacanth)
Providing: galactose, arabinose, xylose, fucose, rhamnose, galacturonic acid (Merck Index, 1996; Davidson et al., 1980)
4. Manapol (inner leaf gel of Aloe barbadensis Miller)
Providing: mannose (Merck Index, 1996)
5. Rice starch
Providing: Glucose (Merck Index, 1996)
6. Glucosamine HCL
Providing: glucosamine (Merck Index, 1996)
NOTE: That none of the sugars that make up Gum Ghatti are unique. They are all found in the other ingredients in this product. Technically you could add a little more of each of the other ingredients, or just leave it out, and take a little more of it to get all of same amounts of these sugars.
However, if you do not believe in the 8 sugar hypothesis, and note that different combinations of different soluble fibers (which Gum Ghatti, tragacanth, arabinogalactan, manapol are) cause production of different ratios of short chain fatty acids, (which may be what is causing many of the benefits of these substances), then the addition of the specific gum - Ghatti, may in fact be (1) important, and (2) be completely different from other gums. So any substitution would be a "trial and error" that may or may not work, since they are in the same family, but are NOT the same structure.
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I really have no idea what to believe. I haven't really spent any time on the subject of whether it supplies the 8 individual sugars or not. I once got Robin at http://www.myglycos.com/ on the phone and asked her about this very question, but she just sounded like a very nice lady who had absolutely no idea.
I also mentioned to her that I was pondering getting the individual ingredients myself, to which she answered that Ambrotose was patented (Hmmm) :-)
The other question I had was whether the Manapol is just an isolated extract of Aloe Vera, or whether it was ALSO chemically broken down into other compounds that the digestive system itself could not accomplish. The reason why I ask is I have a number of Aloe Vera Barbadensis plants that I am growing. I'm hoping that this is a decent substitute for the Manapol, though I'll probably take some manapol anyway (interesting article here - http://asktom-naturally.com/naturally/aloenews.html). I'm aware that some compounds oxidize in the Aloe when exposed to air, but I try to avoid that by taking the whole leaf, and then only slicing off a piece each day - as opposed to immediately taking grinding the whole leaf and leaving it all exposed to air for several days.
Probably of little interest to most folks, since most people can't grow this themselves... but it's a hell of alot cheaper.
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Hey guys, just want to let you know first off that I am no medical expert. I am just a guy who has done his due diligence and believes that glyconutrients are something worth looking at. I've been taking these glyconutrients for 3 months now, and have had phenomenal results. I play tennis at a professional level, so my level of fitness is very important to me. Since taking these glyconutrients, I've felt an increase in strength, stamina, agility, speed and a decrease in stress.
A response to the moderator (Ylide): From reading your first few messages, I can already tell that you are probably a medical expert from the terminology that you use and a huge skeptic of glyconutrients, which is perfectly fine! But I don't believe you have thoroughly done your research (i may be wrong). I believe that you're just spitting out opinions that you've been taught in University, which is not your fault. But please, I urge you to do your research on glyconutrients so you won't have any biased opinions.
To answer some of your questions: Yes, the body can synthesise the 6 or 7 sugars that are void in our diet (We get glucose from just about everything, and galactose from dairy products, the rest are void), but it takes a lot of time and energy to do so. Thats why we need to supplement. No one claims that you should take glyconutrients alone and that it will cure all things (if you are, stop doing it, because you can't make a drug claim on a natural product). All glyconutrients does for your body is give it the materials it needs to do its jobs. The scientific focus aims at cell to cell communication. When cells have these eight biological sugars (not normal table sugars, or any other carbohydrates/monosaccharides that turn into glucose, but eight specific biological sugars that do not turn into glucose) this helps the intercellular communication. When cells communicate better, cells get healthier. When cells get healthier, our bodies get healthier, and thats when we can perform at our optimal level.
As far as sugar ultimately killing you. Once again, these are eight specific biological sugars that do not turn into glucose. These sugars coat our DNA! So I guess I should be dead now right? (Excuse my sarcasm, but I want to get my point across =) ).
As far as eating synthesised food and natural food. Natural food is definitely the way to go. Your cells know when you're giving it synthetic food or natural food. Synthetic food, the cells will take up some of it, yes, but it will reject most of it. If you give it natural food like fruits and vegetables, or in this case, glyconutrients that are derived from fruits and vegetables, the cells will take up all of it. If you're talking about your body synthesising the sugars, then I'm not sure if it takes up all of it. I'm guessing it will seeing as though its come from the body, but once again, it takes up a lot of time and energy to do so.
Im sure you wrote more on the topic Ylide, but I unfortunately didn't take the time to look at them all. Hope it answers some questions for you all. If any of you have any questions, please feel free to email me. If I can't answer a question, I'll find someone who can.
Dr John Axfod and Dr Boyd are coming to Melbourne, Australia tonight to talk about glyconutrients. Should be very informative. They are both members of the Royal Society of Medicine, so highly respected professionals. Royal Society of Medicine, I'm told, is probably one of the most, if not the most, prestigious medical fraternity in the world (correct me if I'm wrong).
Anyway, gimme a holla if you have any questions on glyconutrients, peterbong21@yahoo.com.
Peter
ps, oh, someone said that we don't get the nutrients we need in our bodies because of how our food is shipped and processed. That is true. Grocery stores like Coles and Safeway, and even Walmart, pick their fruits and vege's green to prevent bruising during shipment, then they gas 'em to make them big and red. But of course, you're not getting the nutrients in them, you're just getting the look of a ripe fruit. I could be wrong in saying this, maybe you could email Walmart, Safeway or Coles to find out? I doubt they'd tell you the truth though.
pss, Damnit, i forgot to refer you guys to some websites. www.glycoscience.org (an award winning website). www.dralex.com <~~~~ just found this site. There are others, but I'm not allowed to say. Just do your research! Good luck.
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Forgot to mention. These are 100% natural products. There are no toxic side effects whatsover, so you can't overdose on the product. So for those people who think "I don't know what to believe with supplementation, there are so many adverse side effects". Well, I can tell you for fact that these have no side effects whatsoever. And once again, you take these products in supplementation to the normal food you eat. You don't eat glyconutrients alone!
Mannatech, the nutriceutical research and development company that have produced these products, tried to make these products into a drug because of how powerful they are. They couldn't. They failed one test. Its called an LD 50 rating, where you have to kill a certain number of rats (50% of the population) for it to become a drug. You know that drugs are toxic in definition right? Well, how many rats we killed? None! We did the reverse, we made them healthier! lmao. Well, ok, i lied, we did kill one rat. We just fed it glyconutrients over and over again, and because rats can't regurgitate, the one rat suffocated. But ya, couldn't make it into a drug. Mannatech's products go through regular testing by the governing bodies of health. The TGA governs the products here in Australia. Im not sure in other areas of the world. You'll have to find that out yourselves.
All I can tell you is to do your research for both parties (for and against) or take the products on blind faith and see what happens.
Peter
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Manna doesn't mean "what is it?". I have no idea where you got that from Falariel. Manna was the food GOD provided for the Israelites in the desert when Moses was taking them away from Egypt. Do you remember reading that? Correct me if I'm wrong though.
The dictionary says its also "Spiritual Nourishment of divine origin" among other things.
Peter
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I've been reading more of the forum, just wanted to answer a few question I read.
For all you people asking "I have/my friend has/my dad has... will glyconutrients help?" Think about this. The scientific focus is on cell to cell communication. When cells can communicate better, they get healthier; when they get healthier, our bodies get healthier. Let me explain it this way:
Cells communicate in much the same way as we do. We have letters in our words. If one of the letters are missing in a word, we can't make out the word right? Right. So cells also have a cellular alphabet to make up words. They have eight letters (which are the 8 glycoproteins/sugars). Now what happens is your good cells/killer cells goes around your body rubbing over other cells to read it (they rub over each others glycoproteins to communicate). To find out things like, if the other cell needs feeding, cleansing, regulating, to be left alone if its a good cell, or to be killed if its a bad cell. Now if one of the letters/glycoproteins are missing from the cell, then the killer cell can't read it. So it has two choices. Choice number 1 is it can kill it, you know its better safe than sorry right? But if that cell is a good cell, than your body is attacking itself. Which is an auto immune problem. Which are diseases like AIDS, allergies, asthma, arthritus, lupus, Multiple Sclerosis, Hepatitis C, and diabetes. Its just your body attacking itself. Or choice no.2 is, because the killer cell can't read the other cell because one of the glycoproteins are missing, choice no.2 is it can leave it alone. But if that cell is a cancer cell, then you've got a tumour growing! You don't have cancer because your chemotherapy deficient and its not a problem with your immune system, your killer cell could kill the cancer if it knew you had cancer... Interesting ay?
So as far as other diseases not mentioned above, think of it this way. Your body isn't getting the nutrients or materials it needs to defend itself. Once your body gets the materials it needs to defend and repair itself, your body will get better. Your body is an amazing thing, if you cut yourself, it heals. If you sprain your ankle, it heals itself over time. All you have to do is give the body the materials it needs to repair itself and glyconutrients may be the materials it needs.
As far as asking your doctor about this, he/she probably won't know about this stuff because it wasn't introduced till 1996. They would have got their degrees before that and wouldn't have studied this new technology. Doctors rarely update themselves on new technology because of how busy they are. I would suggest you do your own research on this stuff for both sides or take these glyconutrients on blind faith and see if they work.
There are many scientific/medical journals and magazines that talk about glyconutrients and how its going to impact people's health (whoever says their is little research done on this subject is totally wrong). Its already impacting peoples health. There have been many clinical studies done on this new science. The Fisher Institute has done extensive research on it and have published their findings. You can buy these documents from their website.
You must also remember that medical professionals will rebuke this new technology. Why? Think about it. The average cancer patient is probably worth $300,000 to them. Why would they want a natural supplement taking away their $300,000? They would say, take this drug, it'll make you feel better. Then you'll come back with another symptom because of the drug that you're taking. The doc will say "here take this drug to cure that symptom". The next thing you know, you'll be taking 25 different drugs trying to cure the drug you took before that.
So please please please do your own research. Don't take their word for it, don't take my word for it. Just do your own research and satisfy your own mind.
Peter
ps www.glycoscience.org
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Things really heated up again.
Duanne, your story changes so often it's not funny. One post you're arguing that Mannatech does not have the research, the next you're posting like a zealot how people can get great results of Mannatech's product by concocting their own version. Then you advise people that if they have the money, to buy it from Mannatech.
You try to write like you're such a professional and as if you know all your research and facts like the back of your hand, but your attitude is holier than thou. It seems that you're writing in this way because you hate MLM. Then you recommend to people to purchase one of the ingredients from an MLM. You attempt to intimidate those who recommend the product in your postings (one person in particular).
It does not seem to be a coincidence that you often respond right after Kitty Cat. Do you think no one notices your beligerence and intolerance?
From reading your postings I have gathered that you are really not in disagreement that the product actually works in the human body. You have gone to great lengths to provide people with a way to produce their own. So come clean. Let go of your silly argument that the research is not there. It's there, just not in the way you want to see it, and that's the point you're using to try to dissuade people from Mannatech. Things do not have to go your way, and they won't. You are not God, it is not compulsory for research to be done your way in order for a product to be effective for many people, and you should be ashamed of yourself for purposely attempting to get under people's skin and for trying to defame a company which produces a product that you undoubtedly know produces a product that works. I say that you undoubtedly know the product works because if it did not, you would not be recommending to people to make their own, you would not be passing on a recipe for 'the exact same thing' and you would not be telling people the names of the companies to buy the ingredients from as well.
I don't appreciate your arguments because of the chip on your shoulder. Get rid of it. Drop your immature bit about 'insufficient research'. You must be real unhappy and miserable with life. That's the message you put across. It's disappointing that it's sold only through MLM, but it makes a happier life to leave well enough alone rather than go to all the effort of spreading a bad word. You must be tired from all your arguing.
Sick'n'tired of being sick and tired?
http://www.mannapages.com/candyk
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Ok, I'll bite. :-)
Is the human body really capable of breaking down plant polysacharides, restructure them into small sugars, and use that to create the glycoproteins found on cell surfaces?
Or is it only possible to create glycoproteins by ingesting monosacharides?
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For Eric.
No. These substances are not broken down by your body into the monosaccharides. A small amount may be liberated by certain microorganisms, but the amount would be so small as to be virtually insignificant.
You could take the monosaccharides, most of them are available via the internet, but you would find that the results would not be the same as the ingredients in these supplements. This is because they don't work by forming glycoproteins. That is marketing hype by Mannatech.
Do they have some health benefit? Yes.
There is research on the individual substances that show their benefit is because of other mechanisms, such as stimulating immune function via receptors inside the intestine, and increasing production of short-chain fatty acids by bacteria in your intestine, and prohibiting growth of yeasts and opportunistic microorganisms in the large intestine, as well as other mechanisms. There is research on the individual substances which show health benefits, but nothing I have read in the hundreds of articles/abstracts that I have read suggest that any benefit is because of absorbing any individual sugars other than possibly glucosamine (which is well known use for arthritis).
Smilz you seem a little uptight. You need to relax more.
Yes, these substances can have health benefits for some people, including stimulating the immune system, and there is a lot of research on the individual substances that explains how this happens.
I have a problem with Mannatech promoting a fairy-tale hypothesis about absorbing 8 sugars, and trying to support it with research articles that have nothing to do with their product, while they ignore the research that shows the actual mechanisms.
I am glad that Mannatech has put together a supplement that can help a lot of people, but anytime someone sells something to help people for 1000% mark-up, I find that ridiculous. Especially since you can buy the same ingredients from the same companies that they buy them from.
Have I recommended Ambrotose? Yes. For some who just want to initially find out if it can help them, but don't want to take the time and effort to put together the ingredients separately, I have suggested that they try one container of Ambrotose. If it works, and they are going to take it for a longer time, then they will be more motivated to put together the ingredients for themselves.
48% Arabinogalactan (ImmunEnhancerAG made by Larex)
12% rice starch (filler that makes it dissolve in water better)
10% of each of the other ingredients.
The Curezone.com forum has listed many places to get the various ingredients for great prices.
When someone posts information to this forum that states information as if it is fact, I try to point out where the the science ends, and the marketing material begins.
Yes Ambrotose can help some people.
No, I think Mannatech is a mercenary company whose prices rape the public.
Kitty Cat and I actually get along quite well, though we disagree on some things.
And yes, I have an attitude. But at least my attitude is based on knowledge, and not on ignorance and dogma, and is many Mannatech Associates.
No, Mannatech Associates don't like me, but non-associates seem to love me, and constantly ask for more information.
Good luck.
Duane
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Duane, I would prefer that you don't display your attitude at all, if you can't make it positive for everyone, no matter how much you hate the company. Some of your comments make it unenjoyable for people who are trying to understand how the glyconutrients work because they have to filter out the attitudes, pokes and judgements. You're actually distracting people from your own points. You obviously would like to see MT go under and cease to exist, but if weren't for MT, the many people who have started searching on the internet for info on this topic would never have come across this forum, and ultimately, would never have come across your illegal recipe. By the way, I would also rather pay a company for a product with absolute correct portions of product especially when you're putting in active ingredients rather than doctor up my own. What if some people mistakenly add incorrect portions? What if their ingredients have sat on the shelf so long they are no longer active? Who's to blame? What might happen? (I thought of this when I considered making my own.)
I personally would never have known about these sugars, and that these particular 8 are commonly found in the sugar chains of glycoproteins, which in turn, are absolutely essential for proper cellular communication, if it weren't for a Mannatech Associate. If she hadn't have known about it, I would still be exhausted, and my son would still be frequently ill I'm sure.
I find it hard to believe your comment that the research has nothing to do with the product. I don't mean to sound interrogative, but I'd like to cull your brain a bit. Answer me this: have you read up on the history behind how glycobiology came to be, and have you read up on how MT came up with the product? Have you read the studies that brought the doctors and scientists together which confirmed their own findings, and the article in Harper's Biochemistry 24th Edit (1996) by Dr.R.K. Murray that confirmed these doctor's findings? The author of the article in Harper's Bio that I quote here noted specifically that the 8 sugars: Glucose, Galactose, Fucose, Mannose, Xylose, N-acetylglucosamine, N-acetlgalactosamine and N-acetylneuraminic acid are commonly found in the sugar chains of glycoproteins.
Are you aware that drug companies now are finding ways to incorporate glycobiology into the manufacture of their drugs? The reason why is because they are well aware that cellular communication is key to efficacy of their drugs. (Cha Ching!) I'd rather be giving my money to a company that produces a preventative product rather than let sickness catch up with me and end up paying who knows how much for a toxic drug to be more readily absorbed by my body.
Please quote the studies that you mention. I want to read them if I haven't already. I'd like to get a grasp on where the heck it is that you're coming from. I think you really misunderstand glycobiology and glycosylation, from what I've read of your posts.
For those of you trying to understand how/where the 8 sugars are being 'absorbed':
Glycosylation is a metabolic process by which the saccharides (the aforementioned sugars) are chemically attached to the various substrates such as proteins or lipids. These may be surface molecules or specific enzymes, for example. (copied from The Healing Power of 8 Sugars, compiled by A.C. Somersall, Ph.D., M.D.
The point of the 8 in one product: as quoted from The Healing Power of 8 Sugars: "Almost all plasma proteins in human - except albumin - contain sugars. All cellular membranes have proteins containing sugars. A number of blood group markers are proteins with sugars. Some hormones (such as that used for confirming the pregnancy tests) are proteins with sugars. The sugar chains contain many different linkage possibilities giving rise to a code of biologic information...Then, if the addition of the vitally necessary sugars makes these precursors more readily available to the cells for inclusion in glycoprotein synthesis - that could readily explain why 'sugars' as nutrients (glyco-nutrients) could be so effective when used in supplement form. All evidence to date seems to concur" (The book is first printed and copyrighted 2005).
Sick'n'tired of being sick and tired?
http://www.mannapages.com/candyk
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Oh, and another important fact about the 8 sugars in Ambrotose:
5 of them are found in breast milk.
Does this help anyone who is interested in the 8 sugars?
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Hi Smilz,
I enjoyed your reference to drug companies developing drugs with the carbohydrates. Here is a good site. Maybe if they didn't put so much money into their site the drugs wouldn't be so expensive. Just a thought.
http://www.pro-pharmaceuticals.com/aboutus-video1.htm
Thanks for your involvement in this forum, KC
His grace is sufficient and His strength is made perfect in my weakness
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quote:
Originally posted by smilzandchuklz
Oh, and another important fact about the 8 sugars in Ambrotose:
5 of them are found in breast milk.
Does this help anyone who is interested in the 8 sugars?
It only helps if you're willing to sell some breastmilk. :-)
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Smilz
I don't post for MT Associates.
I don't stop posting for MT Associates either.
You continue to spout the MT marketing line, and you have no idea what you are talking about or you would know that glycobiolgy and "glyconutrients" as marketed by MT are two completely different things. If you can't find the references I have talked about in PUBMED, then I highly doubt that you have the vocabulary and scientific background necessary to read the actual articles.
I will continue to post when incorrect material is listed here to market the products. And those looking for an "objective" evaluation of these substances will continue to thank me for it.
Have a great day, I am.
Duane
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For those who are researching glyconutrients, and their effectiveness:
Glycobiology and Glycoscience both refer to the new emerging science which seeks to understand the chemistry, biochemistry and physiology of glyconutriens and glyconjugates, and their applications to health and disease.
Glyconutrients are a food supplement, and do not treat, mitigate, or cure any disease. Glyconutrients refer specifically to the eight monosacharides (sugars) commonly found in glycoproteins and glycolipids. They are nutrients inasmuch as they can be supplied exogenously in dietary foods or food supplements. They are absorbed efficiently in the body.
The 8 monosaccharides are:
Glucose
Galactose
Fucose
Mannose
Xylose
N-acetylglucosamine
N-acetylgalactosamine
N-acetylneuraminic acid
Some papers/articles on glyconutrients and the Immune System:
R. K. Murray, "Glycoproteins" Harper's Biochemistry 24th edit.
Adachi K, Nanbo H, Kuroda H, Kuroda H, "Potentiation of host mediated antitumor activity in mice by Beta-glucan obtained from Grifola frondosa (Maitake)." Chem Pharm Bull, 1987
Kossi J, et al., "Effects of hexose sugars: glucose, fructose, galactose, and mannose on wound healing in the rat" Eur Surg Res. 1999
Dwek RA, Lellouch AC, Wormald MR, "Glycobiology: the function of sugar in the IgG molecule" J.Anat. 1995:187
Sathyamoorthy N, et al., "Evidence that specific high mannose structures directly regulate multiple cellular activities" Mol Cell Biochem. 1991
Campbell B, Busbee D, McDaniel H. "Enhancement of immune function in rodents using a proprietary complex mixture of glyconutritionals" Proc Fisher Inst. Med Res. 1997
Carbohydrates and Biology. Science Magazine 2001
Feizi T. 1989 Carbohydrate recognition in cellular function. Ciba Foundation Symposium, vol. 145 Wiley, New York
Fukuda M., ed. 1992. Cell surface carbohydrates and cell development CRC Press, Boca Raton, Fl
Presentation - 3rd Annual Conference, New Initiatives in the Prevention and Intervention of FAS/FAE for Aboriginal People of Canada, May 2003, Vanc, BC, Available as a technical syllabus from the Fish. Instit.
Sick'n'tired of being sick and tired?
http://www.mannapages.com/candyk
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For those looking here for an objective perspective: (I don't work for any company selling these substances)
Yes, the 8 individual sugars are absorbed.
However, the ingredients in Mannatech's products are not the individual sugars. But undigestible chains of sugar (dietary fiber).
Research continues to show that the beneficial effect of these supplements is not related to the absorption of the individual sugars (except maybe glucosamine - for arthritis), and most of them are metabolized into short chain fatty acids by bacteria in your large intestine. And there is no current evidence that they increase the production of even one glycoprotein.
This is not to say they don't work, they just don't work the way Mannatech says they do. There is an abundance of research that shows the actual mechanims at work when you evaluate the actual ingredients in the supplement (Arabinogalactan, Acemannan, Gums, etc.)
They don't cure everything, contrary to the belief and claims of Associates, but they can have some significant impact on various conditions, and are worth a try.
The curezone.com forum has a lot of posts where you can buy the actual ingredients separately for much cheaper than Mannatech, or you can try the alternate recipe by Dr. Bird, which many people have great effects from becaused of the other beneficial nutrients that it contains as well. One person there posted his resources and got the recipe down to about $5.00 per 100gm. Now that is a savings.
Feel free to contact the chemistry department of your local college/university and ask for a person who specializes in this area of "glycobiology" or "glycochemistry" who are not associated with Mannatech, and they will verify what I have said about the digestibility of these substances.
Duane
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Hey Duane,
Good to see you in this forum.
Smilz brought up one of the concerns I have about homemade glycos. Especially for people who have serious health problems.
Hey we are doing the same thing. I help people with the products too. I help them get them for free and pass on my bonuses etc to them. No commission made here either. I do like the idea of dealing with a respectable company knowing that their products are standardized and that they use top notch ingredients.
What's your opinion? Thanks in advance, Geek
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by smilzandchuklz</i>
Duane, I would prefer that you don't display your attitude at all, if you can't make it positive for everyone, no matter how much you hate the company. Some of your comments make it unenjoyable for people who are trying to understand how the glyconutrients work because they have to filter out the attitudes, pokes and judgements. You're actually distracting people from your own points. You obviously would like to see MT go under and cease to exist, but if weren't for MT, the many people who have started searching on the internet for info on this topic would never have come across this forum, and ultimately, would never have come across your illegal recipe. By the way, I would also rather pay a company for a product with absolute correct portions of product especially when you're putting in active ingredients rather than doctor up my own. What if some people mistakenly add incorrect portions? What if their ingredients have sat on the shelf so long they are no longer active? Who's to blame? What might happen? (I thought of this when I considered making my own.)<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
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Manna does mean "what is it". When the Israelites saw the hoar-frost looking material for the first time, this is what happened: (Exodus 16:15) When the sons of Israel got to see it, they began to say to one another: “What is it?” For they did not know what it was. Hence Moses said . . .
Ex 16:15 ftn. “What is it (this)?” Heb., man hu´? Syr., ma·nu?
Thereafter that phrase "what is it" became the name of the miraculous bread. (Exodus 16:31) And the house of Israel began to call its name “manna.” And it was white like coriander seed, and its taste was like that of flat cakes with honey. . .
See also the Hebrew dictionary of Strongs Ehaustive Concordance of the Bible, word numbers 4100 and 4478.
Regards,
M. Cameron
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Um... After reading that, I dunno if I'm the dumb one, or you are? I'm not trying to diss you, you're statement just makes me feel really dumb at the moment, cause I can't seem to find your reasoning behind it. I'm reading the bible right now, and I'm trying to see how you are right.
Exodus 16:12 states: "I have heard the complaints of the children of Israel. Speak to them, saying, 'At twilight you shall eat meat, and in the morning you shall be filled with bread. And you shall know that I am the LORD your God."
Exodus 16:13 - So it was that quails came up at evening and covered the camp, and in the morning the dew lay all around the camp.
Exodus 16:14 - And when the layer of dew lifted, there, on the surface of the wildreness, was a small round substance, as fine as frost on the ground.
Exodus 16:15 - So when the children of Israel saw it, they said to one another, "What is it?" For they did not know what it was. And Moses said to them, "This is the bread which the LORD has given you to eat"
You were right in the first sentence, but you neglected to continue... why?
Exodus 16:31 - And the house of Israel called its name Manna. And it was like white coriander seed, and the taste of it was like wafers made with honey.
I dunno if I'm interpreting those verses wrong or something, but from what i gather, Manna is the bread which the LORD has given to his people.
How you interpret it, it sounds like "OoOoO, look, a round shaped orang thing" "what is it?" "Its an orange." But it means "what is it?" I don't get it...
Do you see my reasoning? Does anyone else see this person's reasoning? Or is it just me that doesn't get it?
Peter
ps, I wasn't being sarcastic, I really just don't get how you get "what is it?" from Manna. And if ppl agree with you, I really do feel dumb, because I really don't get it.
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Ok, hi. Good forum.
First of all, Vitamin E gets a bad rap, but there is more than one form of vitamin E. There is Vitamin E (d-alpha) which is rarer because it is more expensive, and there is Vitamin E (dl-alpha), which is terribly prevalent, and all negative stuies of vitamin E are based on this kind. The dl-alpha is literally extracted from coal tar. Wonder why it causes problems.
Concerning Glyconutrients... it is true that the body CAN create all of the necessary sugars, but it requires a very complex and complicated process for the body. Certain things liek stress, toxins, poor nutrition can inhibit this process. These are things the body needs... it's more an issue of whether you want your body to work an unnecessary amount or not.
BTW, concerning Vitamin C. Vitamin C evaporates almost instantly when it comes in contact with oxygen. So if you want fruit juice to work, it does need to be fresh squeezed and drank son afterwards, otherwise it is ineffectual. Drinks in the store that say they have vitamin C are bunk. Don't buy it. The best thing you can do it peel an orange and eat it.
Thanks.
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Hello Everyone,
Hopefully this will clear up any confusion regarding the assimilation of glyconutritional supplementation.
A slide presentation by Robert K. Murray, MD, PhD:
http://www.doctorshealthcall.com/Basic%20Science%20of%20Sugar.htm
Dr. Murray received his medical degree from the University of Glasgow, Scotland, in 1956. He interned at Victoria Hospital, London, and then completed a further year of post-graduate training at the University of Michigan, USA, where he was awarded an MS degree in Physiology in 1958. This was followed by three more years of graduate research in Biochemistry at the University of Toronto, Canada, culminating in him being awarded a PhD degree in 1961.Upon completion of his PhD, he received an appointment as Assistant Professor at the University of Toronto. In 1965 he was appointed Senior Post-Doctoral Fellow, Oncology and Pathology, at the University of Wisconsin, returning to the University of Toronto in 1968 as Associate Professor, Biochemistry, where he was appointed Professor in 1973.
Dr. Murray had a distinguished teaching and research career at the University during which he received Faculty and Alumni awards for teaching, trained more than a dozen graduate students, published over fifty scientific peer-reviewed papers, authored multiple textbook articles, and was one of authors of the last five editions of 'Harper's Biochemistry', the 25th edition of which has just been published in 2000.
Since 1998, Dr. Murray has served as Professor (Emeritus) at the University of Toronto and recently as a consultant in carbohydrate biology and biochemistry to the nutritional supplement industry.
(This post is for educational purposes only)
Glyconutrition does not treat, cure or mitigate disease in any shape, form or manner.
His grace is sufficient and His strength is made perfect in my weakness
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This presentation talks about glycobiology and the individual sugars, it does not address any information that would show that the ingredients in these supplements (soluble fibers, not individual sugars) have any direct effect on the glycobiology, except in the colon, where it admits they aren't well digested.
I don't think it clears anything up at all. As I have said before, it is like an article telling us the benefits of minerals in our diet and then telling us we can get these minerals by eating rocks.
Considering his credentials, one would hope he would be a little more intellectually honest. There is no way he could be this smart and knowledgeable and not know the 8 sugar hypothesis has almost nothing to do with how Mannatech's supplements work. Which makes him more of a used car salesman than a scientist in this regard, regardless of how altruistic his motivation.
Sorry if people find my posts inflammatory or insulting. I try not to be, but I just don't like to be lied to by people who know the truth, no matter what their justification.
Yes, glyconutrients work, but I don't think anyone should have to lie to me about how they work just to convince me to try them.
More acknowledgement on the effects of these supplements on the microorganisms in the human intestine is a step in the right direction though.
Duane
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Duane! Great information. Thank you. I realise I am posting to an old thread here but I was hoping you could help me with something. I understand what you are saying about the bioavailability of the sugars in those supplements and it bothers me also. (although apparently, even on a science forum, some think that is irrelevant information [V])
What I am wondering is the bioavail of the sugars in the homemade powders or in foods. The homemade powders are made of the same basics, so that leads me to believe they are subject to the same issue. However, perhaps food isn't? I treat glyconutrient deficiency via neurolink, which corrects the body's ability to make and use the sugar communication of cells. It does not "augment" the diet. So I am interested to learn if there is a way to augment the diet with glycos.
Thanks!
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Hello,
Recently several people have contacted me and with question and expressed their concern about the negative communication in this forum. They have express that this troubles them.
I hope to encourage anyone feeling that way to ignore the attitudes they find troubling.
Especially for those who are ill and seeking to have their health restored through glyconutrition.
I find it sad that there are people who are not open to hearing the good news, however I have decided to focus on the people who need it, who are willing to use it and the people who are recovering. Please don't let the bad attitudes discourage you. There will always be those who will act in a way that seems to try to destroy anything that is good.
Their voices will fade in the background of this phenomenal gift.
One thing that is good for us to remember is that carbohydrate research is disruptive technology and that glycobiology has been considered one of the 10 technologies that will change the world. Change usually doesn't happen in a smooth fashion especially when it confronts the mega billion dollar medical industry.
Though many doctors and scientist think that the body is self contained and does not need to eat these nutrients, I am convinced that time will prove this theory wrong. There are thousands of people having their health transformed by using glyconutrients and I don't think they would believe anyone who says that the body will manufacture these nutrients only when needed.
I have mentioned in previous posts that we are receiving more and more reports of wonderful progress. Some of these recoveries are not medically possible.
Here some of the recent reports we have been getting:
27 yr. old recovering from TBI (Traumatic Brain Injury or major brain damage)
was in a vegetated state. After a year on glyconutrition he is now eating, talking, and relearning to walk.
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Autistic boy's behavior changed and the whole family noticed and his teacher commented on improvement in his comprehension. He got his first "A" in school and his teacher did not know that he was using glyconutrition.
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Lady with metastisized cancer is improving and stabilizing.
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70 yr.old lady with fibromyalgia is doing great with more energy than she knows what to do with. Her comment was she has too much energy and wears herself out.
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Lady with diabetes sugar level is dropping and she comments on feeling better with a sense of calm that she hasn't had before.
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God bless you, KC
His grace is sufficient and His strength is made perfect in my weakness
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Well then, in order to be more positive, upbeat and helpful:
Here are the alternative formula's that people can use that so far appear to be equally effective (especially since the first one is the same ingredients/formula as Mannatechs product - Ambrotose):
Glyco-1 formula (from Mannatech's Patent - same ingredients at "AMBROTOSE")
48% Arabinogalactan (ImmunEnhancer AG from Larex, the only manufacturers.
12% Rice Starch (Filler? Improves solubility? digests into glucose)
10% Manapol (Patented Aloe vera extract from Carrington Labs).
10% Glucosamine
10% Gum Tragacanth
10% Gum Ghatti
Here is one person's sources for the ingredients:
http://www.curezone.com/forums/m.asp?f=223&i=1951
Last I checked, 100 grams arabinogalactan (made by the same company that supplies Mannatech) was only $16.00 - that's only $8.00 per 100 gram batch of formula for the main ingredient. (There are 48 grams of Arabinogalactan in each 100gm container of Mannatechs product)
Dr. Birds Formula (contains polysaccharides composed of the same types of sugars found in Ambrotose but in other plant-based ingredients- and also contains some other nutrients including some very potent plant-based antioxidants.)
Here is the listing: (information from Dr. Bird posted at many sites).
http://www.burnoutsolutions.com.au/glyconutrients.htm
Here is a link to one persons very economical sources for ease of putting it together:
http://www.web-graphique.com/glyconutrients/source_list.htm
Many people have noted beneficial results with both recipes. Even those who have switched to them from Mannatech's products. No one yet has said that they have had to go back to Mannatech's products after switching. All have noted that it is significantly more economical, especially when taking one or more teaspoon doses each day.
PILOTLIGHT, at the Curezone forum, also bought a large supply of Gum Ghatti, and has offered it to those who are interested.
According to Mannatech, in a paper concerning the development of their "Advanced Ambrotose
"While formulating Advanced Ambrotose, several other improvements were made. We removed rice starch and replaced it with oat fiber to provide a better source of glucose in the form of beta-glucans, molecules well accepted by the scientific community as important for immune support. We removed the Larix decidua-sourced arabinogalactan and substituted gum acacia, which contains all the sugars in arabinogalactan, as well as three other important sugars—rhamnose, galacturonic acid, and glucuronic acid." (http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:0qP_SXcc_SAJ:www.mannapages.com/sharethegift/RDReport2005.pdf+gum+acacia+saccharides&hl=en):
While the main ingredient in "Advanced Ambrotose" is now Gum Acacia (a.k.a. Gum Arabic), vs. arabinogalactan, "which contains all the sugars in arabinogalactan" it should be noted that Arabinogalactan does has several studies showing it does have effects on the peripheral immune system, Gum Acacia does not.
If looking at individual saccharides that make up Gum Ghatti, note that it does not add any unique "essential" sugars that are not found in the other ingredients. You could technically just double the Gum Tragacanth, and be getting about the same amount of the individual saccharides..if that was your goal.
However, since Mannatech found it beneficial to replace the main ingredient in Ambrotose with Gum Arabic, you could always replace the Gum Ghatti with that substance. One site sells one pound for $7.95 (http://www.raivinfire.com/product_info.php?products_id=2148&company=Froogle&campaign=RaivinFire&adgroup=Shopping)and there area many others selling it too.
It is great that so many are getting so great a benefit from these products. Hopefully this post will allow those who have been hesitant because of the cost or MLM association to give it a try. Then even more people can have the great health effects that these substances (as opposed to a specific brand name) can have.
Hope for better health to all.
Duane
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Duane
Brilliant job. One lump or two anyone?
"The explanation requiring the fewest assumptions is most likely to be correct."
K.I.S. "Keep it simple!"
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This post seems to be completely out of character for KittiCat.
KittiCat has been one of the Mannatech Associates who, in the past, has always shown a lot of heart, care and concern for people and their health problems rather than the profit making aspect of Mannatech.
While we disagree on the science and explanations of these supplements, we have always agreed that they can have much benefits for people who take them. Sometimes people get in a bad mood, or have a bad day, and say things in a way that they normally wouldn't or make personal attacks that really don't have anything to do with what is really the issuess. I'm sure this must have just been one of those days for her. I would like to continue thinking of her as one of the sincere associates whose real care and concern is truly for people.
That being said, I will address the issues that she raised.
KC WROTE: "1. People reading this topic and being influenced by someone who continually tries to insult and shame others, esp. the co-author of the Harper's Biochemistry textbook, Robert K. Murray, MD, PhD., or Dr. Ben Carson, and Dr. Reg McDaniel, etc. and other highly respectable doctors and scientist who are leading in the field of glyconutrition. To actually accuse these doctors of lying and other shameful accusations, is outrageous to say the least."
I have reviewed my posts, and am sorry if KC thinks I have tried to "insult and shame" these doctors. I continue to point out the large gaping holes in their information they present for those who may not be as familiar with the science. While they should be eminently qualified, and knowledgeable in this area, their explanations continue to use the legitimate science of glycobiology and then make quantum leaps in unproven hypotheses that are promoted by the company that they work for.
I am not the only one who feels this way. H.H.Freeze, one of the preeminent experts in Mannose, whose references are often used by these doctors, has also noted their innaccurate interpretation both on the web, and in e-mail communications I have had with him. Also, consider the following excerpt from an article written in November in the New Zealand Herald:
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"George Slim, a former glycobiologist, who is director of Biotechnology Policy for the Ministry of Research, Science and Technology explains that all proteins on the outside of cells have some sort of sugar attached to them.
"Those can be varied very rapidly to provide a huge number of cell-to-cell communication events - even information as simple as blood groups are all based on glycoprotein sugars and glycolipids [fats bound with sugars]."
Slim says it is true too that mannose - one of the eight glyconutrients pushed in Mannatech's sugar pills - is important "in cell-cell signalling and the immune response".
The big gap between the real and pseudo science is the inference made about Mannatech's products - whether regularly taking an expensive supplement will make any difference in cell-to-cell communication and overall health. Slim says the science says no.
"Your body has a whole series of metabolic pathways which will quickly flip one sugar into another. So you eat a spoonful of sugar and by the time it is in your stomach it is already turned into a whole series of sugars just by the action of acid."
Once sugar is absorbed and taken into cells, it can be changed into mannose or any of the other glyconutrients.
Laurence Melton, professor of Food Science at the University of Auckland, agrees. "You store carbohydrates in your body as glycogen which is a polymer of glucose. So if you insisted on eating fructose [fruit sugar] in large amounts then what you don't use in energy would get converted to glycogen anyway - the glucose polymer."
Melton questions where the evidence is that we aren't getting enough of these obscure sugars in our diets or that we once used to. He disputes too that the nutritional value of food is being depleted.
"That's nonsense. There is every reason to believe the quality of food is improving, not declining."
Slim is dismayed at the way the science is being trivialised.
"Mannatech has taken some perfectly credible and very exciting science and substituted this big link - that taking these pills nutritionally makes a difference to the way sugars operate in the body. That link hasn't been substantiated."
He says anybody on a normal diet and without an enzyme deficiency is perfectly capable of making any of the sugars they require. "I think it's nonsense to suggest that taking mannose or any of these other sugars in your diet is going to have any effect whatsoever."
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/topic/story.cfm?c_id=500829&ObjectID=10336055
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I wholeheartedly disagree that they are "leading in the field of Glyconutrition." Despite the research out there showing the actual mechanisms of how these supplements work, they continue to tow the Mannatech 8 sugar hypothesis, without any scientific support that these supplements (which aren't even the 8 sugars) effects are secondary to absorption of these sugars, or that anyone is deficient in them. How can they lead in the field of Glyco-anything when they quote other researchers research, and they don't even publish any themselves? Wouldn't that make the people whom they quote the leaders? In fact, I haven't read any statements or information from any reputable glycobiologist, who is not associated with Mannatech, who would agree with you about their inflated importance. They are what they seem to be...employees of Mannatech who are selling a product.
If you mean they are "leading in the field of Glyconutrition" because they are convincing salesmen, and more people are buying glyconutrients from Mannatech because of their sales presentations, then I would have to agree with you. But I thought you meant the scientific field.
KC WROTE: "2. People are being led away from the truth. Please do your own in-depth research. You are NOT the "ignorant public".
Led away from what truth? Yes, please do your own in-depth research. On this point we agree. Read my posts, read Mannatech's marketing material, even e-mail them and ask them the questions I have raised, and see what answers they give. Also e-mail or call glycobiologists at your local University and see what they have to say. You might want to try this yourself KC rather than listening only to people who work for Mannatech.
KC WROTE: "Batch consistencies, proper processing, product/company integrity and shelf life are being overlooked.
From what I understand people are having a hard time mixing all the ingredients and getting the right consistency... ...In order to attain the health you are looking for, it is crucial that you have support and understanding of the healing process. I believe it is a priority to have a support person or team who is willing to work with closely you."
I have read over the posts on this forum and have found people asking for help in getting all of the ingredients, but I have not found that people are having a hard time mixing all of the ingredients at all. Did I miss something? Most have said it is quite easy and fast, and many are already reporting great benefits. Isn't that what you want??? People getting better?
Batch consistencies? Proper Processing? You can call Carrington and Larex, who are the same people who supply Mannatech and ask them about this. Or you can call the companies, like Food Science of Vermont (DaVinci Labs) and request information from them. I think you will be impressed with their answers, and willingness to share them.
Support Person or Team????? I thought that is what this forum was for. I think it is doing a great job, and that includes your posts (except your last one). Thanks
KC WROTE: "Please do keep in mind that you are dealing with a military chiropractor, who appears to be spending numerous hours jumping from forum to forum and could be abusing tax dollars or violating federal laws in doing so and not doing his military job."
"As for me, I try not to listen to what is being said, but HOW it is being said. How a person communicates his opinions shows a lot about his character.
It is my goal to try to communicate the truth in love, though I fall short many times. The way we treat each other is a priority and will have a direct affect on the rest of our lives and perhaps our health."
This was a stretch, and totally out of character for you. What did this personal attack have to do with the subject? Did you think it would damage my credibility?
If you will go back to my posts you will find that the times I wrote them are usually after 10 p.m., or very early in the morning, or on weekends, or my days off. Not during the work day. Are you really so concerned that someone is abusing your tax dollars? "Forums" and "chat" areas are blocked on military computers at domestic bases, so you should not concern yourself that federal laws are being violated in order to bring quality alternatives to the glyconutrient seeking public. Was this some kind of a veiled threat to try and scare me off so I wouldn't post here anymore?
How did you get so desperate? I thought we were trying to be "positive", upbeat, supportive. Your statement about listening to "HOW it is being said" should make you look over your post and ask about the tone and content of your last post.
If a janitor at the local grade school made the same posts I have made, it would make no difference, as long as the information was accurate. Though I have the credentials and education to have found the gaping holes in Mannatech's marketing material, and the presentations by the scientists that they send out to promote it, the proof is in the facts, the actual research, and the science, not in the credentials of the one that presents it.
If I have made errors in what I have said, then lets discuss it. Present the research that contradicts what I have presented, or answers the questions I have raised. If there is some magical processing step that makes Ambrotose superior to mixing the same ingredients at home, then what is it? Stick to the facts if you want to support your point to the people reading these forums. Attempts at trying to demean someones character, or veiled threats to try to stop them posting do not add anything to the discussion about glyconutrients.
I have noticed that no matter how dispassionately I have pointed out the scientific problems with Mannatechs explanations, and have tried to present this information objectively, you always interpret anyone who disagrees with you as being "negative." I have pointed out where you have presented false or unsupported information. It is nothing personal, just trying to help people see fact from fiction, and if you have anything to show where I am wrong, great! Present it. I am beginning to believe that the only thing you accept as "positive" communication is where someone agrees with you, even when you are wrong?
As I said, I hope that your post was just a reflection of a bad day. We appreciate the many testimonials that you have posted, and the support and normally caring attitude you present. If you really do have any science or research that sheds light on where my posts have been incorrect, I think many people would be interested in reading them.
KC, I continue to wish you luck and health.
Duane
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17 Jan 2005
Though I have tried to defend KittyCat's integrity in this post, she keeps making it harder.
KC - If I have any evidence of where I have made any "Misleading" statements about Mannatech or Dr. Murray, please point them out and give your support as to where I have been mistaken.
Anyone who points out the fallacy of Mannatech's mistaken explanations, or the mistakes in their presentations, you consider "mean" or "rude" or "damaging". So far you have shown no interest in seeking the truth on these topics, and you give no evidence to support your position concerning Mannatech's faulty science or to back up your concerns about making these recipes at home.
If Dr. Murray didn't lie in his presentation, then address the concerns I noted at the curezone forum. Either I am wrong, or he lied. Give evidence where I am wrong, and you easily prove your point.
You admit that you have no background in science. I do. I am not going to ignore blatant misrepresentations of science, just because you are not comfortable with it. If I am wrong, investigate it. Ask your experts at the conferences you go to, and find out the answers, with the evidence to support them. Then present them here for discussion. If you cannot find the answers, then you have to ask WHY.
Pointing out the gaping holes in Mannatechs marketing material is not "mean" or "negative". If it is wrong, it was wrong long before I brought it up. I am just pointing it out to people.
And I will continue to point it out, over and over again, regardless of the fallacies and unsubstantiated ad hominem attacks and baseless accusations Mannatech Associates use to draw attention away from the actual issues.
When my children argue, and one of them realizes they are wrong, but won't admit it, they start calling the other child names, or they will hit the other child because of their frustration. This is typical human behavior, depending on the childs maturity, self-control, and humility. The same can be said of adults...
Again, I wish you luck, and pray for you in seeking truth, and the humility to accept it.
Duane
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Cathy your reply to Duane was rather terse, and even a little childish. Always better to discredit the argument rather than risking ones own credibility by trying to discredit and attack the person you are trying to communicate with.
I suspect you may have got a little of those sugars too close to an exposed nerve in your mouth.
Duane does present a very good argument against shelling out a small fortune for a few spoons of sugar. And as he has no vested interest in earning money from myself and others, I find myself swayed in favour of his low budget approach and applaud his calm and crystal clear arguments.
Still waiting for some concrete evidence from your side of the fence.
Andrew
"The explanation requiring the fewest assumptions is most likely to be correct."
K.I.S. "Keep it simple!"
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Hello everyone,
Dr. Reg McDaniel will be lecturing on the effect that glyconutrients have on our own stem cells. This is a lecture and very informative. All are welcomed.
I will email you if you would like more details.
K.C.
Dr. Reg McDaniel
Graduate, University of Texas Southwestern Medical School
Former Director of Pathology and Director of Medical Education
Dallas-Ft. Worth Medical Center.
Meet and Hear Dr. McDaniel in Person
During the first week of Feb.
North of San Francisco, CA
His grace is sufficient and His strength is made perfect in my weakness
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Hi Andrew,
I haven't been impressed with the way you have carried yourself here in this forum also.
I have expressed my honest opinion, and expressing my concerns. I am sorry if I left room to be misinterpreted.
Your comment: "Still waiting for some concrete evidence from your side of the fence".
Though I am not a scientist, doctor or have a degree in biology, I do educate myself. I will refer you to the top of this page to the link and information I provided. (This is one of the doctors that Duane attempted(?) to discredit)
If you are serious and not trying to cause a debate then email me and I will pass on the info that you ask for.
Please be specific with your questions and I will be specific with my answers.
KC
His grace is sufficient and His strength is made perfect in my weakness
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Hi,
Have been doing some personal research on glyconutrients and am trying to get both the pro's and con's to the science of it and the marketing of it. I just moved back to the US after leaving overseas for the last 14 years in developing countries, I am a health care professional and teacher. My exposure in developing countries and their health care systems, natural and organic substances that they use medicinally with some amazing results have left a lasting impression toward more natural medicinal options than synthetic. It is interesting to note that in developing countries, chronic auto immune issues/disorders (outside of HIV/AIDS)were minimal in comparison to 1st world countries (although they are starting to see great increases in chronic auto immune disorders).
All that being said, what I have learned from working in all these countries is that an individual's chemistry has a lot to do with what the body's ability to absorb the nutrients that it needs. From looking at what you all have been discussing, the one thought I would like to share is that what we all need to keep in mind. Every individual body that is in some sort of dysfunction is basically in chemical "warfare" within itself. Different types of bodies need different things with respect to what it needs to regain balance and heal itself. While it may be true that some of the science of glyconutrients has been "embellished" by particular companies for the purposes of financial gain, the fact of the matter is that it has been helpful for some where conventional medicine was not. And although I personally do not agree with how the glyconutrients are packaged and sold. It appears that these companies got in such a hurry to get these to marketing that they did not put much thought into what was the best way for unhealthy bodies to receive one of more of the glyconutrients. These companies basically packaged them like multi-vitamins are, which are effective with healthy bodies. But not so with unhealthy ones. There is alot we still do not know about the body and nutrition for that matter. Try as we may, medicine is NOT an exact science when it comes to diagnosing chronic conditions.
The hardest part about all of this is that medicine, nutrient and nutritional supplements in the US are no longer an opportunity to heal people but have become instead opportunistic.
OK, all that being said, I would like to see some of the pioneering research that was done in finding glyconutrients and identifying what role they play in the body. I have a feeling that although they are probably not that effective or needed in healthy bodies, I think that in dysfunctional bodies they may be of some help. I would like to dialogue further.
Thanks,
rdr
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Hey gang. I just wanted to let all the skeptics know that, from the marketing side of it, mannatech has proven to be profitable for me. My dad calls me up one day and tells me basically that "I need to get in." He lets me know of the $1200 up front cost and assures me that if I don't make my money back within a month, he'll pay me back. My dad has always had a knack for making money, so with 0 risk, and a chance at profit.... my only option was to say "yes." Its been 4 months now, and I have since signed up my wife as well. I have made a profit of $2000 thus far. Not a ton, but still profit... and it can only increase from here. On a side note, the glyconutrients seem to be working for my wife. She has had beginning stages of arthritis in her wrists and other joints, and is reporting that all pain and stiffness is gone. I have not noticed anything special other than a reduced appetite, although I never had any noticable pains before so who knows what's going on under the surface. Could it all just be in her mind? Of course... only time will tell if this is truly all its cracked up to be, but as for me... my skepticism is gone. And don't worry if you're skeptical now, because we all are at some point. I mean, come on... a miracle "sugar" that heals all ailments??? Just remember, everybody thought the Earth was flat until all of the sudden.... it wasn't!
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The Earth is still flat, just depends on where your viewpoint is.
Thanks for confirming my thoughts about this pyramid scheme. What's it like in a cup of tea?
"The explanation requiring the fewest assumptions is most likely to be correct."
K.I.S. "Keep it simple!"
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Andrew, the earth is not flat... or maybe it is over in England.
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Hey SD77,
If you enjoy the benefits your wife is getting, but really love those profits, use the money you are getting to combine your own glyconutrients (according to the recipe above, at about 1/4 of the cost of Ambrotose), and then you can pocket the rest of the money you were paying Mannatech. (You can even use some of your old Ambrotose canisters). Same results, same ingredients, same quality, and EVEN MORE MONEY FOR YOU! But don't forget to keep selling everyone else on taking the Brand Name stuff so your profits will keep rolling in.
Capitalism...you gotta love it.
Duane
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Hi Dan,
Welcome to this forum. I can see that our welcoming committee has greeted you already with arms opened wide.
Do you suppose it would be better not to be involved in this type of business and therefore put more money into the pockets of the pharmaceutical industry?
Or better yet, spending hours and hours on forum like these displaying your intellectual knowledge at other's expense.
I am glad to hear of your wife's progress and to see that you are seeing the financial benefit to the business side. In my case I am so wealthy that I just give my time and glyconutrients away for free! (Or not). Please keep us informed and yes, the welcoming committee always needs the last word. Do you think glyconutrients will help genetic conditions?
Take care, KC
His grace is sufficient and His strength is made perfect in my weakness
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quote:
Originally posted by momof4
For what it's worth,I thought I would add my personal story to the list of arguments for and against glyconutrients. I am very grateful that a friend introduced me to glyconutrients just 5 months ago. For over 20 years I have suffered from chronic neck and lower back pain. Two of my children have suffered from "full blown" asthma since early infancy. My youngest child had severe eczema to the point of bleeding. Winter months were a nightmare with bottles of oxygen lined up in my garage. I am happy to say that in the last few months I have been pain free. There has only been 1 asthma attack (and I believe this was due to the fact that we were without product for over 2 weeks) and no sign of eczema. It is so easy to get caught up in the arguments, as I have been reading in these pages, but to me the only proof I need is the healthy kids living in my home. I wouldn't go a day without them and as a single Mom of 4, that is saying a lot.
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I READ THROUGH MANY OF THE ENTRIES LISTED ON THIS SITE BECAUSE A FRIEND OF MINE WHO IS HAVING PROBLEMS WITH HER HEALTH FOUND THIS SITE AFTER I HAD SUGGESTED SHE TRY GLYCONUTRIENTS. I FIND THE ENTRIES BOTH INTERESTING AND CONFUSING. I'M NOT A SCIENTIST NOR A DOCTOR SO I WONT EVEN BEGIN TO TRY TO DISPUTE ANYTHING THAT IS SAID, THOUGH IT DOES SEEM TO ME THAT BOTH THE BIOLOGIST AND THE DOCTOR SEEM TO DISPUTE ONE ANOTHER AND EVEN THEMSELVES AS YOU READ THROUGH THE ENTRIES. ONE MINUTE THEY ARE SAYING GLYCONUTRIENTS ARE OF NO VALUE AND THEN TELLING US HOW PEOPLE WHO HAVE MIXED THEIR OWN HAVE HAD GOOD HEALTH BENEFITS FROM USING THEM? I'M CONFUSED, IS IT THEIR DEDUCTION THAT ONLY THE HOME MIXED GLYCONUTRIENTS ARE OF VALUE TO YOUR HEALTH?
HERE IS WHAT I WILL SHARE WITH YOU, AS IT IS MY PERSONAL LIFE EXPERIENCE SO FAR. ONE THAT HAS LITERALLY CHANGED MY LIFE, AND THE LIVES OF MY TEENAGE CHILDREN. OF COURSE SOME OF YOU MAY WANT TO STOP READING RIGHT NOW, BECAUSE I DON'T MIX MY OWN PRODUCT, I DO GET IT FROM THE COMPANY THAT IS CHARGING TOO MUCH ACCORDING TO DUANE. BUT SINCE I HAVEN'T ACTUALLY HAD TO PAY FOR MY PRODUCT SINCE THE SECOND MONTH, DUE TO THAT MARKETING PLAN DUANE SO DISLIKES, I PREFER TO GET MINE ALREADY MIXED IN A JAR. AND AS KC MENTIONED, I LIKE THE IDEA THAT THE PRODUCT HAS BEEN TESTED TO MAKE SURE THAT IT HAS THE ACTUAL "ACTIVE" INGREDIENTS IN IT.
I HAVE SUFFERD WITH THE SYMPTOMS OF LUPUS FOR QUITE SOME TIME. I HAVE A TENDANCY TO SAY IT THIS WAY BECAUSE AT THE LAST BLOOD TEST I HAD, I STILL DIDN’T TEST POSITIVE FOR ANA’S, ANTINUCLEAR ANTIBODIES IN MY BLOOD THAT ARE USED AS THE DIFINITIVE PROOF OF LUPUS, THUS THE COMMENT THAT I SUFFER FROM LUPUS LIKE SYMPTOMS.
MY PROBLEMS STARTED SHORTLY AFTER THE BIRTH OF MY FIRST CHILD NEARLY 19 YRS AGO, AT LEAST THAT'S WHEN I FIRST NOTICED IT. LOOKING BACK ON IT THERE WERE SOME SYMPTOMS THAT I’VE HAD SINCE CHILDHOOD, SUCH AS BEING ANEMIC.
IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING THE BIRTH OF MY SON, MY HAIR STARTED FALLING OUT IN GREAT GOBS AS IF I WAS HAVING CHEMO THERAPY. MY OB-GYN DOCTOR TOLD ME THAT SOMETIMES THE CHANGE IN YOUR HORMONES FROM GIVING BIRTH WILL CAUSE THIS AND THAT IF IT DIDN’T STOP IN 3 TO 6 MONTHS HE WOULD REFER ME TO A DERMITOLOGIST TO HAVE IT CHECKED OUT. SINCE I WAS PREGNANT WITH MY SECOND CHILD WITHIN 4 MONTHS, I JUST FIGURED MY HORMONES WERE STILL OUT OF WACK AND IGNORED THE WHOLE SITUATION. I’VE ALWAYS HAD REALLY THICK, FAST GROWING HAIR, SO AT LEAST I WASN’T GOING BALD, AND AT THAT POINT HAD OTHER THINGS TO OCCUPY MY MIND AND TIME, IT’S CALLED A NEW BORN, AND MINE HAPPENED TO BE COLICKY, FUNNY HOW NO ONE THOUGHT TO TELL ME THAT WHAT I ATE WOULD HAVE AN EFFECT ON MY NURSING INFANT.
NEXT I STARTED HAVING UNEXPLAINED SWELLING AND BREAKING OUT IN DISCOID ERUPTIONS (LIKE HAVING HIVES, ONLY THE PUMPS WERE CONCAVE IN THE MIDDLE) THEY WOULD START OUT THE SIZE OF A PENCIL ERASER AND ABSOLUTELY CIRCULAR, THEY WOULD SPREAD ACROSS MY SKIN, SOMETIMES GETTING AS BIG AROUND AS A GRAPEFRUIT. THE ERUPTIONS ITCHED, BUT IF YOU SCRATCHED THEM THEY WOULD HURT, AND OFTEN AS THEY GOT REALLY LARGE THEY WOULD TURN BLACK AND BLUE BEFORE FADING AWAY.
THEN CAME THE JOINT PAIN… I HAD BEEN IN A MOTOR CYCLE ACCIDENT WHEN I WAS 19 AND HAD SUFFERED ON AND OFF WITH BACK PAIN EVER SINCE. SO WHEN I FIRST STARTED HAVING PAIN IN THE JOINTS OF MY LEGS, ANKLES AND HIPS I JUST FIGURED IT WAS ALL RELATED TO THE BACK PROBLEMS. BUT CHIROPRACTIC HAD ALWAYS HELPED WITH MY BACK PAINS BEFORE AND AS TIME WENT ON THE PAIN GOT WORSE AND SEEMED TO BE IN EVERY JOINT OF MY BODY AND CHIROPRACTIC DIDN’T RELIEVE THIS PAIN. THE PAIN EVERY NIGHT JUST FROM SLEEPING, FELT LIKE EVERY JOINT IN MY BODY, EACH & EVERY VERTEBRAE ACHED, IT TOOK AN HOUR OR SO OF VERY PAINFUL MOVING AROUND EACH MORNING TO GET BACK TO NORMAL.
SOMEWHERE ALONG THE WAY I STARTED GETTING RASHES INSTEAD OF SUNBURN WHEN I WAS OUT IN THE SUN, AND IF I WENT OUT IN THE SUN FOR ANY LENGTH OF TIME (SOMETIMES ONLY 10 TO 15 MINUTES) I WOULD HAVE PAIN IN MY FEET, ANKLES, KNEES AND HIPS SO BAD I COULD HARDLY BEAR TO WALK.
I WOULD WAKE UP MANY MORNINGS WITH MY FACE AND EYES SO PUFFY I LOOKED LIKE AN ORIENTAL VERSION OF THE PILSBURY DOUGH BOY; MY CHIROPRACTOR FELT THIS WAS PROBABLY DUE TO MY KIDNEYS HAVING PROBLEMS SINCE MY BACK ON BOTH SIDES WOULD BE KILLING ME. I WOULD ALSO HAVE TO GET UP DURING THE NIGHT TO URINATE 2 OR 3, SOMETIMES EVEN 4 TIMES.
MY CHEEKS WOULD FLUSH RED & HOT, AT ODD TIMES FOR NO APPEARANT REASON AND I HAD PROBLEMS WITH SORE AND/OR SWOLLEN GLANDS IN MY NECK, I ENDED UP HAVING SURGERY FOR A “COLD NODE” OR CYST ON MY THYROID IN 1991 AND WAS LEFT WITH ONLY HALF MY THYROID BUT NORMAL BLOOD LEVELS WHEN TESTED.
I HAD MIGRAINES WITH FLASHING LIGHTS AND FLOATERS IN MY EYES, THESE WERE SO BAD THAT WHEN I FELT THEM COMING ON I HAD TO MAKE A RUN FOR HOME BECAUSE MY EYES WOULD BECOME SO LIGHT SENSITIVE I COULDN’T DRIVE, IF IT GOT TOO FAR INTO THE PROCESS.
I DEVELOPED PROBLEMS WITH MY EYES… AN INFLAMATION OF THE INNER EYE THE FIRST TIME THAT TOOK 6 MONTHS TO CLEAR UP, THEN THE SCLERA AND THEN THE EYE LID ITSELF. LET ME TELL YOU THAT GETTING A STEROID SHOT IN THE EYEBALL IS NO FUN.
I HAVE ECZEMA ON MY SCALP AND FACE AND THE ITCHING USED TO DRIVE ME NUTS, ESPECIALLY WHENEVER I WAS UNDER A LOT OF STRESS; NOT TO MENTION THE INCONVENIENCE OF LIVING IN A PERPETUAL SNOW STORM FROM THE FLAKING.
THEN THERE WERE THE NIGHTS WHERE I WOKE UP CHOKING & FEELING LIKE I WAS DROWNING FROM WHAT FELT LIKE WATER IN MY LUNGS, THOSE WERE REALLY EXCITING TIMES IN MY LIFE. ADD TO THAT GETTING THE GOOD OLD SOUTHEAST TEXAS CREEPING CRUD (COLD AND SINUS PROBLEMS THAT HANG ON FOR WEEKS OR EVEN MONTHS) A COUPLE OF TIMES A YEAR AND HAVING THAT TURN INTO BRONCHITIS AT LEAST EVERY OTHER YEAR AND EVEN PNEUMONIA ONCE AND LIFE IS NEVER DULL.
THE SUDDEN, UNEXPLAINED FATIGUE WAS THE REAL LIFE CHANGER, IMMAGINE BEING PERFECTLY FINE ONE MINUTE, AND YOU CAN'T KEEP YOUR EYES OPEN THE NEXT. THAT MAKES FOR REALLY EXCITING ROAD TRIPS! YOU CAN’T DRIVE A CAR WHEN YOU CAN’T KEEP YOUR EYES OPEN. MY CHILDREN AND I TOOK A VACATION TRIP TO NEW ORLEANS ABOUT 5 YEARS AGO. THE TRIP THERE AND THE RIVER CRUISE WERE GREAT, UNFORTUNATELY THE NORMALLY 6 HOUR DRIVE HOME TURNED INTO 19 HOURS DUE TO THIS TYPE OF FATIGUE AND THAT PUT A REALLY BAD SPIN ON THE WHOLE TRIP. THERE WERE TIMES I WONDERED IF I COULD MAKE IT THE 20-MILES FROM WORK TO HOME IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY BECAUSE ONE OF THESE BOUTS WOULD HIT ME.
AS IF LIFE WAS NOT HARD ENOUGH I STARTED GETTING BOUTS OF DEPRESSION THAT WOULD LAST FOR WEEKS AT A TIME, THE KIND WHERE YOU JUST CAN’T EVEN CONVINCE YOURSELF TO GET OUT OF BED. I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN A STRONG WILLED PERSON, THE KIND WHO PICKS THEMSELVES UP BY THE BOOT STRAPS AND JUST KEEPS GOING. BUT I TRULY COULDN’T SEEM TO MAKE MYSELF GET OUT OF BED ON SOME OF THOSE DAYS. SINCE I’M A SINGLE MOTHER AND AM SELF EMPLOYED, THIS WAS REALLY DIFFICULT ON MY FAMILY AND OUR INCOME.
THE LAST SYMPTOM THAT I DEVELOPED WAS NUMBNESS IN MY THUMBS AND THE FIRST 3 FINGERS OF BOTH HANDS. NOW I HAVE SUFFERED FROM CARPEL TUNNEL IN THE PAST, AND CHIROPRACTIC HELPED ME TO AVOID SURGERY FOR YEARS, BUT THIS WAS DIFFERENT AND VERY SCARRY WHEN IT STARTED LASTING LONGER AND LONGER. AND NO MATTER HOW MANY ADJUSTMENTS I GOT, IT DIDN'T SEEM TO CHANGE THE SEVERITY OR FREQUENCY OF THIS PROBLEM. MY WORK AND LIVELYHOOD REQUIRED TYPING, YOU CAN’T TYPE WHEN YOU HAVE NO FEELING IN YOUR FINGERS! IN FACT IT'S DIFFICULT TO DO MOST ANYTHING THAT REQUIRES DEXTERATY, INCLUDING SIMPLY GETTING DRESSED.
I TELL YOU ALL OF THIS SO THAT YOU CAN TRY TO IMAGINE WHAT HAS BEEN GOING ON IN MY LIFE THE PAST 19 YEARS. THE GOOD NEWS/BAD NEWS WAS THAT LUPUS SYMPTOMS CAME AND WENT, SO EVEN THOUGH THINGS GOT WORSE OVER TIME AND HAPPENED MORE FREQUENTLY, AT LEAST IT WASN’T EVERYTHING AT ONE TIME, DAY IN AND DAY OUT.
THE NORMAL THERAPY FOR LUPUS IS STEROID TREATMENT TO RELEIVE THE SYMPTOMS, BUT THIS DOESN’T GET RID OF THE LUPUS AND HAS IT’S OWN SIDE AFFECTS, WHICH I DIDN’T CARE TO EXPERIENCE. WE ALL KNOW THAT STEROIDS AREN’T GOOD FOR A HEALTHY BODY, SO WHY WOULD I WANT TO PUT THEM INTO A SICK ONE? JUST THE TOPICAL THAT I HAD TO USE ON MY EYES HAD CAUSED ME TO LOSE A GREAT DEAL OF MY VISSION, WHICH IS NOT SOMETHING UNUSUAL THAT HAPPENED ONLY TO ME, IT SAYS RIGHT THERE ON THE CONTAINER THAT EXTENDED USE WILL CAUSE BLINDNESS. WHEN I DISCUSSED THIS WITH MY OPTHAMOLOGIST/EYE SURGEON AND TOLD HIM I WANTED OFF THE STEROIDS AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, HE JUST GOT ANGRY WITH ME AND TOLD ME I COULD GO BLIND FROM THE INFLAMATION OR I COULD GO BLIND FROM THE STEROIDS. I TOLD HIM MY CHOICE WAS NOT TO GO BLIND AT ALL, BUT THAT DIDN'T SEEM TO BE ONE OF THE OPTIONS FOR HIM.
I SEARCHED FOR A DIFFERENT WAY TO GET HEALTHY, MY CHIROPRACTOR AND I DISCUSSED THE POSSIBILITY OF VITAMIN AND NUTRITIONAL THERAPY, WHICH I STARTED. AND THEN I WAS FORTUNATE TO DISCOVER WELLNESS FILTERED WATER. WHICH UP TO THIS POINT MADE THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCE IN HOW I FELT.
THROUGH MY RELATIONSHIP WITH WELLNESS FILTERS I WAS INTRODUCED TO GLYCONUTRIENT AND PHYTONUTRIENT PRODUCTS. I ADMIT THAT AFTER THE FIRST 4 TO 5 WEEKS I ACTUALLY GOT WORSE INSTEAD OF BETTER, I FIGURED THAT WAS PROBABLY MY BODY GETTING RID OF THE TOXINS, SO I KEPT TAKING THE PRODUCTS. BY WEEKS 6 AND 7 I STARTED FEELING BETTER AND NOW, A LITTLE OVER A YEAR LATER I HAVE GOTTEN RELIEF FROM CLOSE TO 95% OF MY SYMPTOMS.
A GREAT SIDE EFFECT THAT I HADN’T PLANNED ON WAS THAT I HAVE HAD A RATHER LARGE LUMP OF FIBROCYSTIC TISSUE, ABOUT 1 INCH BY 3 INCHES, IN MY BREAST SINCE I WAS 19 YEARS OLD AND SOMEWHERE AROUND MONTH 5 OR 6 IT JUST DISAPPEARED.(I'M 51 NOW, BY THE WAY, SO I'VE HAD THAT LUMP A LONG TIME. THE GOOD NEWS IS, IT NEVER GOT ANY BIGGER, IT WAS THAT SIZE WHEN THE OB-GYN DOCTOR FOUND IT AT 19 YEARS OF AGE.)
I STARTED MY TEENAGE CHILDREN ON THE PRODUCTS IN JANUARY A YEAR AGO, AFTER ABOUT SIX MONTHS, MY SON WHO HAS SUFFERED FROM ALERGIES FROM BIRTH REALIZED THAT HE HAD NOT HAD ANY MAJOR PROBLEMS WITH ALLERGIES FOR A COUPLE OF MONTHS. (BY THE WAY, CHIROPRACTIC WORKED MIRACLES ON HIS ALLERGIES FROM ABOUT AGE 5. IT STOPPED ALL THE ASTHMA ATTACKS AND INFECTIONS, BUT NEVER SEEMED TO TOTALLY GET RID OF THE RUNNY NOSE, CONGESTION AND PURPLE UNDER EYES AT CERTAIN TIMES OF THE YEAR)
MY TEENAGE DAUGHTER HAS BEEN USING SOME OF THE GLYCONUTRIENT WEIGHT LOSS PRODUCTS AS WELL AS THE OPTIMAL HEALTH PROGRAM AND HAS MANAGED TO LOSE 50 POUNDS, MAKING A TOTAL OF LOSS OF 60 POUNDS SINCE OCTOBER OF 2004. SHE ALSO LOVES THE ENDICRINE SUPPORT PRODUCTS THAT HAVE GIVEN HER RELIEF FROM PMS AND MENSTRAL PROBLEMS. AND SHE FEELS IT IS EASIER TO FOCUS IN SCHOOL SINCE SHE STARTED TAKING THE GLYCO AND PHYTO NUTRIENTS. (HER GRADES CERTAINLY SEEM TO CONFIRM THIS.)
EVEN THOUGH I KNOW THAT GLYCO AND PHYTO NUTRIENTS DON’T TREAT, CURE OR MITIGATE DISEASE IT SURE IS NICE TO HAVE A BODY THAT SEEMS TO OPERATE AT A HIGHER LEVEL OF HEALTH WHEN IT HAS THEM. I HAVE FRIENDS WHO HAVE LUPUS, MS, KIDNEY FAILURE, HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE,FIBROMYALGIA AND OTHER PROBLEMS THAT HAVE EXPERIENCED RELIEF FROM THEIR SYMPTOMS AS WELL (AND BETTER BLOOD LEVELS, FOR THOSE WHO HAVE IT TESTED ON A REGULAR BASIS). I'M SO GLAD THAT MY BODY SEEMS TO "THINK" THESE PRODUCTS ARE DOING SOME GOOD, BECAUSE I HAVE USED A LOT OF DIFFERENT BRANDS AND TYPES OF NUTRITIONAL PRODUCTS OVER THE YEARS, FROM MY CHIROPRACTOR'S OFFICE, THE HEALTH FOOD STORE AND FROM OTHER NETWORK MARKETING COMPANIES, NOTHING HAS EVER HAD THIS EFFECT ON MY FAMILY AND FRIENDS.
I DON'T CARE WHAT ANYONE SAYS, UNLESS THEY CAN PROVE THAT IT IS DAMAGING MY HEALTH, WHICH I ADMIT WOULD BE HARD TO PROVE TO ME AT THIS POINT. I AM GOING TO MAKE THESE PRODUCTS A PART OF MY FAMILY'S HEALTH REGIME FOR THE REST OF OUR LIVES BECAUSE WE JUST PLAIN FEEL BETTER WHEN WE HAVE THEM IN OUR DIET. I SUGGEST THAT YOU DO WHAT DR. REG McDANIEL SAYS, JUST OPEN YOUR MOUTH AND TRY THEM FOR 3 OR 4 MONTHS, THEN YOU WILL KNOW FOR YOURSELF. THAT'S WHAT I DID, AND IF THIS IS SOME KIND OF PLACEBO EFFECT, THEN THANK GOD FOR THAT, I'M KEEPING THIS GREAT HEALTH.
YOU CAN MIX YOUR OWN OR GET ON THE "FUNDED WELLNESS FOR LIFE" PROGRAM LIKE I DID, BUT JUST TRY THE GLYCO AND PHYTO NUTRIENTS, SEE IF THEY MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN YOUR HEALTH.
Valerie Jo from Houston
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Kitty, thanks for the welcome :) I'm used to dealing with ignorance and conflict enthusiasts. The truth of the matter is that there will always be people who, because they can't understand the way something works, yell at those who do. It doesn't bother me really, because at the end of the day... I'm the one getting the mannatech paychecks (just got two today by the way) and living the healthier life! ;) Congrats on your wealth, and best of luck to you.
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Many associates still misinterpret my posts. I haven't said that glyconutrients don't work, just that Mannatech's "8 essential sugar" hypothesis is bogus marketing material. That doesn't mean they aren't beneficial.
Are their alternate explanations with scientific support? Yes.
SYNOPSIS: ONE WAY THESE SUBSTANCES WORK IN SO MANY HEALTH PROBLEMS IS BY INCREASING PRODUCTION OF SHORT-CHAIN FATTY ACIDS (SCFA) IN YOUR INTESTINE. SCFA's ARE ABSORBED FROM THE INTESTINES, AND CAN EFFECT THE WHOLE BODY.
I have shown previously that research has shown that the majority of these substances are converted by microorganisms into short-chain fatty acids, such as butryate (which is NOT a sugar). This is one of the ways glyconutrients have their effects. Unlike sugars, SCFA's are not produced by your body, but must be acquired by production of them via bacteria in your colon.
Butyrate is the primary energy source for the colon, and is potently anti-inflammatory, and has been shown to actually convert colon cancer cells (and other cancer cells) into normal cells, as well as have many other beneficial effects. Variations of butyric acid are being studied for use in cancer and other conditions.
Recently, a group wondered if soluble fiber in the diet would effect renal (kidney) disease by increasing circulating amounts of butyrate. So they gave Gum Arabic (sound familiar, it is also known as Gum Acacia, and is really cheap) to human volunteers for 8 weeks. At the end of 8 weeks they found the levels of circulating butyrate to have doubled. In vitro, they found butyrate had beneficial effects on generation of certain cytokines which effect the kidney in renal diseases. Showing a mechanism of how glyconutrients can effect renal disease without the glyconutrients ever getting to the kidney themselves.
Matsumoto N, Riley S, Fraser D, Al-Assaf S, Ishimura E, Wolever T, Phillips GO, Phillips AO. Butyrate modulates TGF-beta1 generation and function: Potential renal benefit for Acacia(sen) SUPERGUMtrade mark (gum arabic)?
Kidney Int. 2006 Feb;69(2):257-65.
Noting that dietary supplementation with Gum Arabic in this study showed a doubling of circulating butyrate, it is interesting what other things butyrate is being studied to help. Such as: (with representative references)
Types of neurodegenerative disease (1)
Cancers (2)
Increases production the antimicrobial protein "cathelicidin"(3)
Inflammation (4)
Increases CXCR4 in bone marrow - increase stem cell production/mobilisation(5)
-Interestingly it decreases CXCR4 in Tumor cells (6,7)
Just to name a few. All of which suggest glyconutrients can have substantial beneficial effects on various conditions of the body without it having anything to do with absorbing sugars. (And did I mention Gum Arabic is really inexpensive??)
1. Ying M, Xu R, Wu X, Zhu H, Zhuang Y, Han M, Xu T. Sodium butyrate ameliorates histone hypoacetylation and neurodegenerative phenotypes in a mouse model for DRPLA.J Biol Chem. 2005 Dec 28
2. Entin-Meer M, Rephaeli A, Yang X, Nudelman A, VandenBerg SR, Haas-Kogan DA.
Butyric acid prodrugs are histone deacetylase inhibitors that show antineoplastic activity and radiosensitizing capacity in the treatment of malignant gliomas.
Mol Cancer Ther. 2005 Dec;4(12):1952-61.
3. Kida Y, Shimizu T, Kuwano K. Links Sodium butyrate up-regulates cathelicidin gene expression via activator protein-1 and histone acetylation at the promoter region in a human lung epithelial cell line, EBC-1. Mol Immunol. 2006 Jan 16;
4. Soderberg LS, Boger S, Fifer EK, Gilbert KM. Related Articles, Links
Macrophage production of inflammatory mediators is potently inhibited by a butyric acid derivative demonstrated to inactivate antigen-stimulated T cells. Int Immunopharmacol. 2004 Sep;4(9):1231-9.
5. Gupta SK, Pillarisetti K, Aiyar N. CXCR4 undergoes complex lineage and inducing agent-dependent dissociation of expression and functional responsiveness to SDF-1alpha during myeloid differentiation. J Leukoc Biol. 2001 Sep;70(3):431-8.
6. Shibuta K, Mori M, Shimoda K, Inoue H, Mitra P, Barnard GF. Regional expression of CXCL12/CXCR4 in liver and hepatocellular carcinoma and cell-cycle variation during in vitro differentiation.Jpn J Cancer Res. 2002 Jul;93(7):789-97.
7. Jordan NJ, Kolios G, Abbot SE, Sinai MA, Thompson DA, Petraki K, Westwick J. Expression of functional CXCR4 chemokine receptors on human colonic epithelial cells. J Clin Invest. 1999 Oct;104(8):1061-9.
Remembering that combinations of different glyconutrients have been shown to increase ratios of butyric acid, propionic acid, etc, may also suggest why a combination of more than one has better effects.
So, for you selling these supplements, here is more scientific evidence to help you. However, Since Mannatech doesn't make any of these ingredients, those who don't want to pay high prices can buy the ingredients, made by the same companies Mannatech buys them from, and mix your own. Your choice, as long as everyone gets the benefits.
Exciting stuff
Duane
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Hi folks!
Although I'm new to the group and this discussion, I have been interested Mannatech and it's products for some time. I am particularly interested in the research as presented on the "glycoscience.com" web site. Of the sixty "product specific" research articles listed, less than a handful appear to be conducted using controls. Does anyone know if "double blind, placebo controlled" studies for any of Mannatech's products are underway or planned? It seems to me if Mannatech wishes it's supplements to become accepted and adopted by the mainstream medical community, more of these type studies need to be conducted and published in medical journals such as the "Journal of the American Medical Association" or the "New England Journal of Medicine". Also, can anyone tell me what happened with this particular study supposedly done in 1998 by the New Jersey Chronic Fatigue Syndrome/Fibromyalgia Center?
http://www.dfwcfids.org/cfids/fightfatigue.html
I can't seem to find the results anywhere and my emails to the New Jersey CFS/FM Center go unanswered.
Thanks so much!
Greg
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Hi Greg and Valerie (thanks for the recoveries you shared),
Welcome and please do stick around. It gets a little messy here sometimes. Just like life in the real world ;o)
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It looks as though we are seeing the results of regeneration of the liver, etc. in this case. It appears as if those stem cells are doing their thing again.
God's ability to heal and his family using glyconutrients:
http://www.miracleboy.org/
It blesses my socks off to see how God deals with the gods of the science world.
Glyconutrients are a gift to mankind that came through the back door of science. Given into the hands of regular folks like you and me. A natural food and not a drug.
While we don't see many doctors and scientist supporting this technology (yet), this doesn't change a thing for us. We have a win win situation with the results and we don't have to wait for the multi-billion dollar paid science and pharmaceutical industry to develop more drugs to keep us healthy.
KC
1Corinthians: 26-27
For consider your calling, brethren that there were not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble;
27 but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong.
His grace is sufficient and His strength is made perfect in my weakness
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It is great to realize that God made these substances, and many more...Not Mannatech, and we don't need Mannatech to benefit from them.
Duane
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Yes Duane, once again you are right.
We don't need Mannatech to benefit from them. I wonder if we need Mannatech's patent ratios to copy Ambrotose and benefit from it? We wouldn't even be able to encourage others to fill Ambrotose jars and sell homemade glyconutrients to fulfill their greed.
Also many would not be aware of glyconutrients or even be alive if Mannatech were non-existent. This makes me wonder again, would these living ones agree with such strong opinions? And I'll be, there would be no reason to display interpretations and argue. What a boring world that would be. ;o)
Have a good one, KC
His grace is sufficient and His strength is made perfect in my weakness
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Did we hit a nerve? Take a few more glycos and maybe it will regenerate.
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No, but thanks for asking, I find it fun too. It must be the gitty effect of the sugars, or maybe the great beer (or 10;O)) I just enjoyed, either way having fun and hope you are too. Sleep well, KC
His grace is sufficient and His strength is made perfect in my weakness
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Thanks Duane. And thank you to all others in this discussion. I have read this whole thread from a non-biased perspective, and I think there has been a misunderstanding. Duane is saying that there is an alternative to Mannatech, that is cheaper and just as effective. That's pretty much all. I don't see why slamming him is at all helpful to anyone. As they say, give a man a fish and feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you feed him for life. Mannatech is offering me an expensive fish fillet.
I make my own herbal tinctures, and I'm sure those in Herbal Life would not like it when I "teach a man to fish" and make his own tinctures either. But it doesn't mean my tinctures are lesser. I see Duane helping more people by sharing this information, and helping them more long term - by showing them self sufficiency and giving access to recipes. If it is a big, wealthy corporation against one guy - why on earth are you slamming the one guy? Can't the corporation look after themselves?
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Hello everyone,
I have found these links to be very helpful in the learning process regarding the science, technology and how the body requires glyconutrients .
I will continue to share info that I have studied and hope that this is helpful as it has helped me tremendously.
FROM DR. MURRAY CO-AUTHOR OF THE HARPER'S BIOCHEMISTRY TEXTBOOK:
http://www.doctorshealthcall.com/Basic%20Science%20of%20Sugar.htm
Dr. Murray received his medical degree from the University of Glasgow, Scotland, in 1956. He interned at Victoria Hospital, London, and then completed a further year of post-graduate training at the University of Michigan, USA, where he was awarded an MS degree in Physiology in 1958. This was followed by three more years of graduate research in Biochemistry at the University of Toronto, Canada, culminating in him being awarded a PhD degree in 1961.Upon completion of his PhD, he received an appointment as Assistant Professor at the University of Toronto. In 1965 he was appointed Senior Post-Doctoral Fellow, Oncology and Pathology, at the University of Wisconsin, returning to the University of Toronto in 1968 as Associate Professor, Biochemistry, where he was appointed Professor in 1973.
Dr. Murray had a distinguished teaching and research career at the University during which he received Faculty and Alumni awards for teaching, trained more than a dozen graduate students, published over fifty scientific peer-reviewed papers, authored multiple textbook articles, and was one of authors of the last five editions of 'Harper's Biochemistry', the 25th edition of which has just been published in 2000.
Since 1998, Dr. Murray has served as Professor (Emeritus) at the University of Toronto and recently as a consultant in carbohydrate biology and biochemistry to the nutritional supplement industry.
GLYCOPROTEIN SYNTHESIS REQUIRING NUTRITION AND OPTIMIZED BY GLYCONUTRIENTS:
http://www.valdezlink.com/pages/molecularbiology-dietarysupplements.htm
Dr. Reg McDaniel:
http://www.drreg.net/
We are fearfully and Wonderfully made
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I found this forum while researching glyco. (My wife is seeing a counseller who, by some strange coincidence, wants to sell her the stuff) I want to send out a big THANK YOU to duane and ylide for providing real info that isn't rote parroting of a sales brochure.
I also found out what UC-Berkely thought about glyco supplements:
http://www.berkeleywellness.com/html/ds/dsGlyconutrients.php
And the Mayo Clinic:
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/glyconutrients/AN01102
thanks guys
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Hi Paket, welcome to this forum,
It is not always the coziest place but many of us are learning together here regarding glyconutrients.
I understand your skepticism since I was there myself. Thank you for the links you provided I found them helpful.
As I read them, the thought I had was that most doctors or scientists either don't or won't recognize the benefit of anything other than surgery, medical procedures or drugs and they in turn may have their financial investment threatened or perhaps they don't know enough about food nutrients/supplements and may be afraid of lawsuits.
I may be wrong, however the way I see it is that science usually supports few if any benefit at all to food having healing properties, food supplements, or anything that is not a drug.
I do see more of a trend lately since the public is demanding more alternative type avenues, (obviously food is not alternative), of health care which is forcing western medicine to change.
The very fact that drug companies are using carbohydrates with drugs,
http://www.pro-pharmaceuticals.com/aboutus-video1.htm confirms that they see the value in it, but no value in a food supplement?
Could it be because there is no financial gain with people eating the food the body needs to heal?
I hope you will have an open mind for your wife's benefit. I have seen many not willing to learn more about it and they are influenced by the negativity in forums, or by their doctors who tell them not to use glyconutrients without any knowledge of what glyconutrients are.
Dr. Murray co-author of the HARPER'S BIOCHEMISTRY TEXTBOOK recognizes the benefit of glyconutrient supplementation, shouldn't we?
KC
We are fearfully and Wonderfully made
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Did I mention that I talked with Bill McAnalley,Ph.D. (the father of glyconutrients) last week when he was in town. Anyway...
Most of this post is for those people NOT here selling anything, but just looking at objective information in this area.
At another forum (curezone.com), a poster brought up the topic of Inulin. Being the curious type, I did a little research on this easily obtained glyconutrient and found out some very interesting things.
Let me start by saying, INULIN IS CHEAP. 8 oz (222 grams) inulin powder from NOW foods is only $3.85 (www.vitaglo.com), other sites it runs a little more.
INULIN is a polysaccharide (glyconutrient) but it is not made up of a complex amount of sugars most people have not heard of before, but of long chains of fructose with some glucose. SO WHAT BENEFIT COULD JUST A CHAIN OF FRUCTOSE BE???? THESE AREN'T THE MISSING SUGARS IN OUR DIET!!!
Well lets see what Duane found in the few moments of researching this topic...
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Inulin is a beta-linked (non-digestible) chain of fructose with some glucose
Inulin: (oral:dietary) Has been shown in scientific studies to:
*Shifts percentage of Bifidobacterium in your colon from 20% to 71% in as little as 5 days. (decreases clostridia - nasty guys - to almost zero) (Bifidobacterium - Good Guys - See below)
*Causes microorganisms to produce mostly Butyrate (See below)(Fructooligosaccharides – FOS - main product is acetate and lactate, so inulin has an advantage)
*Stimulates immune system directly and indirectly (see below)
*Increases ion absorption (e.g. calcium, magnesium)
*Increase in bone mineral density in animals (FOS does not)
*Improves Bone mineral density in human adolescents (being studied for osteoporosis)
*Decreases tissue proinflammatory cytokines
*Reduces colonic inflammation
*Reduce risk for colon cancer.
*Prevents Chronic Inflammatory intestinal diseases
*Increase concentration of secretory IgA in ileum and caecum.
*Increase splenic NK cell cytotoxicity as well as splenocyte cytokine production
*Improves cognitive function and learning discrimination in rats
*Decreases triglycerides and cholesterol in hyperlipidemic people (again, FOS not as effective)
*In animals: Decrease incidence of cancers, inhibits growth of transplanted cancers, prevents metastasis.
*Potentiates (improves) the effects of Cancer radiotherapy and many chemotherapies
*Decreases fecal ammonia (ammonia is plant food – Yeast is a plant)
Documented Health benefits of Bifidobacterium: (which is significantly increased because of INULIN)
*Inhibit growth of harmful bacteria and yeasts
*Aid in the absorption of certain ions
*Synthesis of certain B vitamins
*Inhibited harmful enzymes (beta-glucosidase, beta-glucuronidase, tryptophanase and urease)
*lowers the pH colon.
*Also they inhibit ammonia production of intestinal microflora,
*Lower colonic pH
Immune Effects of Inulin and Bifidobacterium
* enlargement of a number of T-cells and increasing of major histocompatibility complex (MHC-II) molecule on the surface of an antigen-presenting cells of spleen, mesenteric lymph nodes, thymus was noted.
* increasing of content interleukin-2 and interleukin-4 in blood was noted in rats fed inulin and oligofructose.
Increase concentration of secretory IgA in ileum and caecum.
*Increase splenic NK cell cytotoxicity as well as splenocyte cytokine production
Huge benefits of increased butyrate (which is significantly increased by Inulin specifically)
*Energy source for colonic epithelia
*Anti-inflammatory
*Immunomodulatory
*Anti-cancer (can actually turn a cancer cell into a normal cell – differentiation)
*Decreases pH of colon (beneficial)
*Stimulates CXCR4 in bone marrow (stimulate stem cells?), but inhibits it in cancer cells.
*Multiple other effects, many of which have been elicited in other posts in this forum.
Following is from: http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/129/7/1402S
Shifts in the distribution of fecal microflora in humans provided a diet without and with supplemental inulin. Source: Gibson et al. (1995) .
Standard Diet
65% Bacteriodes
20 %Bifidobacteria
12% Fusobacteria
3% Clostridia
Inulin Diet
71% Bifidobacteria
26% Bacteriodes
3% Fusobacteria
0.3% Clostridia
___________________________________________________________
WOW. Is that impressive? And that is not all of the effects, just the ones I listed. You could also add effects on free fatty acids, digestion of foods, indirect effects on allergic and auto-immune reactions, and a whole host of secondary effects.
All those beneficial effects, and just with a beta-linked chain of Fructose??? How many of those same benefits are the people who take the EXPENSIVE glyconutrients looking for??? Could some of them get just as good benefits with this simple alternative??? OR Would this be something we could use in place of the Gum Ghatti, or Gum Tragacanth in our home recipes????
I still think the Arabinogalactan and Acemannan (manapol) have some separate benefits because they have some added benefits of stimulating specific receptors in the intestines (e.g. mannan-binding lectins, galectins, etc) that can stimulate certain immunologic and other physiologic functions that Inulin will not have, and of course, glucosamine is great for joint health, so these do have their place for many people and conditions.
I suspect that many people, depending on their condition and symptoms, could equally benefit just from this one supplement. It would be interesting to compare this, or various combinations of inulin and other ingredients to the Patented formula for effects. Either way, I hope this information helps someone.
GREAT STUFF!!!!!
Let me know if anyone has any experience with this.
Duane
(Below are a few of the articles, references or abstracts that I found fascinating as I evaluated and investigated this material. Some of the more technical may find it more interesting than others, but I thought I would add it.)
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"Inulin is a beta-linked polydisperse ß(21) fructan,(chains of fructose) with a glucose molecule at the end of each glucose chain. The beta linkages keep the molecule from being digested in the small intestine. There is an excellent article in Journal of Nutrition which shows a pie chart that shows the results of a study showing a radical increase in bifidobacteria and a equal decrease in clostridium."
(Kathy R. Niness Inulin and Oligofructose: What Are They? Journal of Nutrition. 1999;129:1402S-1406S)
Another important factor of inulin is that the major fermentation product is butyrate, whereas fructooligosaccharides main product is acetate and lactate. (Fermentation of fructooligosaccharides and inulin by bifidobacteria: a comparative study of pure and fecal cultures. Appl Environ Microbiol. 2005 Oct;71(10):6150-8)
“Health benefits ascribed to Bifidobacteria include the following: inhibiting the growth of harmful bacteria, stimulating of components of the immune system and aiding the absorption of certain ions and the synthesis of B vitamins. The bifidogenic effect of inulin and oligofructose has been well proven (Bouhnik et al. 1994B3B3 , Djouzi and Andrieux 1997B14B14 , Gibson et al. 1995B18B18 , Gibson and Roberfroid 1995B19B19 , Hidaka et al. 1986B23B23 , Kleessen et al. 1994B26B26 , Menne et al. 1997B35B35 , Mitsuoka 1986B36B36 , Mitsukoa et al. 1987B37B37 , Roberfroid et al. 1998B50B50 , Sanno 1986B58B58 , Shimoyama et al. 1984B61B61 , Takahashi 1986B65B65 ). Dramatic positive shifts in the composition of microflora have been shown through in vivo human studies at doses between 5 and 20 g/d, generally over a 15-d period (Fig. 1F1F1 : Gibson et al. 1995B18B18 ), (Kleessen et al. 1994B26B26 , Menne et al. 1997B35B35 , Wang 1993B72B72 , Wang and Gibson 1993B73B73 ).” (from the paper by Kathy Niness.
A combination of prebiotic short- and long-chain inulin-type fructans enhances calcium absorption and bone mineralization in young adolescents. Am J Clin Nutr. 2005 Aug;82(2):471-6.
In general, the study demonstrated that oligofructose-enriched inulin at 5 % in the diet, and particularly at 10 % in the diet, caused relaxing-like effects, stimulated and increased the general activity and interest of the rats to the test environment. In addition, both doses of oligofructose-enriched inulin showed significant effects on learning discrimination in male rats, in comparison with the control diet. These results suggest that oligofructose-enriched inulin, particularly at the dose of 10 %, improves cognitive performances in the light extinction test and the well-being of male rats using the FOB. (Behavioural and cognitive effects of oligofructose-enriched inulin in rats. Br J Nutr. 2005 Apr;93 Suppl 1:S27-30.)
In Vivo. 2005 Jan-Feb;19(1):201-4.Possible adjuvant cancer therapy by two prebiotics--inulin or oligofructose.
Taper HS, Roberfroid MB
Dietary treatment with inulin or oligofructose incorporated in the basal diet for experimental animals: (I) reduced the incidence of mammary tumors induced in Sprague-Dawley rats by methylnitrosourea; (II) inhibited the growth of transplantable malignant tumors in mice; (III) decreased the incidence of lung metastases of a malignant tumor implanted intramuscularily in mice. (IV) Moroever, besides such cancer risk reduction effects, dietary treatment with inulin or oligofructose significantly potentiated the effects of subtherapeutic doses of six cytotoxic drugs commonly utilized in human cancer treatment. (V) The same prebiotics potentiated the effects of radiotherapy on solid form of TLT tumors to a statistically very high level. Such dietary treatment, with the inulin or oligofructose potentiating the effects of cancer therapy, might be introduced into classic protocols of human cancer treatment as a new, non-toxic and easily applicable adjuvant cancer therapy without any additional risk to patients.
Arch Pharm Res. 1998 Feb;21(1):54-61.
Inhibitory effects of Bifidobacterium spp. isolated from a healthy Korean on harmful enzymes of human intestinal microflora.
Park HY, Bae EA, Han MJ, Choi EC, Kim DH.
Department of Food and Nutrition, Kyung-Hee University, Seoul, Korea.
Five hundreds of bifidobacteria were isolated from a healthy Korean and the inhibitory effects of these isolated bacteria on harmful enzymes of human intestinal microflora were examined by cocultivation of the isolated bifidobacteria with E. coli or total human intestinal microflora. In comparison with the results of E. coli or intestinal microflora cultivation, Bifidobacterium breve K-110, B. breve K-111 and B. infantis K-525 effectively inhibited harmful enzymes (beta-glucuronidase and tryptophanase) of E. coli and lowered the pH of the culture media. Also they inhibited the harmful enzymes (beta-glucosidase, beta-glucuronidase, tryptophanase and urease) and ammonia production of intestinal microflora, and lowered pH of the culture media by increasing lactic acid bacteria of intestinal microflora. When these isolated bifidobacteria were administered on mice, fecal harmful enzymes were also inhibited. Among tested bifidobacteria, B. breve K-110 had the highest inhibitory effect of fecal harmful enzymes.
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Hello everyone,
Apparently there has been someone trying to cause trouble for me and others. They are sending emails in my name, harassing people, and trying to cause problems using other names in forums. Please don't open any emails from me.
I do not want anyone to get a computer virus. I apologize for any inconvenience and I have alerted the moderator.
I unfortunately have to remove any access to my emails in order to avoid this being a problem for others. I don't know why someone would do this...nothing better to do than to try to disqualify me, make me look as bad as possible and hurt others in doing so?
You would think that someone that knows computers well enough to inflict harm like this would use their smarts to help others not do destructive things like this. Very desperate thing to do.
KC
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Update:
After speaking with my husband, he has expressed concern regarding my involvement in forums and no longer wants me to be involved.
My involvement has brought about some sort of computer hacker that is using my IP and emailing files with my return address and reeking havoc in other forums.
My husband has asked me not to be involved at all since this has happened and he is concerned that someone has access to my computer somehow.
We may need to replace the mother board too. I hope this never happens to anyone else.
I hope that my involvement here has contributed to us learning more regarding glyconutrients.
A special enormous thanks to Neil for all his help in this forum.
Sorry that this has happened...better to play it safe.
PLEASE DO NOT OPEN ANY EMAILS THAT LOOK LIKE THEY ARE FROM ME ESP. IF THEY HAVE A FILE ATTACHED...I DID NOT EMAIL YOU ANYTHING.
God bless you all! KC
We are Fearfully and Wonderfully made
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Hello again,
Now that you have had the opportunity to chew on the idea of inulin There is more to be said. Inulin can have benefits of improving balance of bifidobacteria, and it can increase butyrate, but it doesn't have the same benefits as some of the other glyconutrients...WHY? Because it is fructose.
Funny thing about bacteria, viruses, yeasts, and even cancer cells. They seem to have polysaccharides all over them. Most of these are mannans (mannose chains) or galactans(galactose chains). Why is this important???
(Please, anyone who wants the references to what I am about to write, e-mail me and I will forward them to you)
In simple language, your body, especially your intestines (which come in contact with more microorganisms than anywhere in your body) have a lot of "receptors" that are on the look out for the chains of sugars found on these pathogens (disease causing organims). These receptors are called "Lectins". They are literally glycoproteins which can attach to certain chains of sugars. Two of the most important are the "Mannan Binding Lectin" and "Galectin" which bind Chains of Mannose, or chains of galactose, respectively.
For example, once a mannan binding lectin (MBL) attaches to a yeast cell wall (which contains a mannose polysaccharide) it activates certain immune functions. If a whole lot of MBL's attach to yeasts, then there is more immune activation, and production of certain other chemicals (cytokines) that have other benefits as well.
The same is true of Galectins. Galectin-1 for example has been shown to be immunomodulatory, inhibit inflammation, and stimulate nerve tissue regeneration, regulate immune homeostasis (important in allergy and auto-immune diseases) as well as more. (see below, I will post some of the references at the end of the post).
1. HOW IS THIS IMPORTANT IN GLYCONUTRIENTS?
2. HOW CAN INULIN MAGNIFY THIS EFFECT?
Arabinogalactan and Manapol (Acemannan) have already been shown to stimulate certain aspects of the immune system. Manapol is a polysaccharide made out of chains of mannose, similar to the chains of mannose found on various micro-organisms. So, lets say you take a dose of this substance. The MBL's in your intestines attach to these chains and mistakenly think "OH NO MASSIVE INFECTION, NEED TO ACTIVATE" and that stimulates the immune sytem to activate by various mechanism, including the production of messenger chemicals called "cytokines". So your immune system is stimulated, but Manapol doesn't cause any disease like yeasts and other microorganisms, so your immune system can go off and work on any other problems that it has been ignoring.
HOW DOES INULIN HELP??
By a few factors, but here is an important one. The main short-chain fatty acid produced by bacteria eating inulin is butyrate. Butyrate has many important effects on the intestines and the human body, but the one that really is important here is that butyrate increases Galectin-1 gene expression by 8 to 18 times!
So inulin increases butyrate which increases the galectin-1 and so more galectin-1 binds chains of galactose as found in Arabinogalactan, which magnifies the effects of Arabinogalactan on the immune system, and many other areas. I have seen no studies to show if similar effects are found on the MBL's, but it is possible.
In the case of candida overgrowth, for example, the benefits of inulin, and like substances, is that certain strains of bifidobacteria and lactobacillus (which become the dominant micro-organism when taking inulin), actually kill certain yeasts, such as candida. Also, Short-Chain Fatty Acids, produced by these bacteria decrease the pH in the colon, which makes it difficult for yeast to live. Inulin also has been shown to significantly decrease the ammonia produced in the colon. Ammonia is a fertilizer for plants, such as yeasts, so less ammonia, less food for yeasts. This alone in beneficial, but yeasts are stubborn.
Candida has two forms, think of it as a plant, with a bud form in the colon, and roots (called hyphae) which attach and penetrate. Kill the plant in the colon, and the roots still go on living. Inulin helps kill the weeds in your colon, but not in the colon wall. The arabinogalactan and acemannan stimulate the immune system, within the colon wall, and the roots get eaten. Hence the combination works better than any one alone. (no wonder women with chronic recurring yeast infections love glyconutrients).
And that is just one example. When you look at the large amount of evidence that galectin-1 can help modulate auto-immune disease, and that inulin leads to increase butyrate, which increases galectin-1 gene expression, and arabinogalactan binds and activates the galectin-1, you can start seeing how these combinations can help in things like rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, MS, etc. Same concept with nerve diseases/damage.(see some of the references listed at the end).
So the whole combination again, becomes greater than the whole.
{I personally don't think gum Tragacanth or Gum Ghatti, even though they are soluble fiber also, would have as good benefits without the other glyconutrients either. Could one replace them in the recipe with inulin and still get the same effects as Ambrotose? Hmmm?)
Now, what if you could give bifidobacteria and inulin at the same time so that the bacteria could have food at the beginning of the digestive system, so more of them would live, and so that butyrate could begin having direct effects on the small intestine rather than mostly being produced in the large intestine. That would be great. It is the concept of SYNBIOTICS, and there is some important research on this as well, But it will have to wait for another post. (gotta give you time to let it soak in).
Let me know what you think. Lets discuss it.
Duane
(some of the references below)
"Butyrate regulation of glycosylation-related gene expression: evidence for galectin-1 upregulation in human intestinal epithelial goblet cells." Biochem Biophys Res Commun. 2004 Dec 17;325(3):1044-51.
"Transcriptional regulation by butyrate of mouse galectin-1 gene in embryonal carcinoma cells." Biochim Biophys Acta. 1999 Jan 18;1444(1):85-91
Dimeric galectin-1 induces IL-10 production in T-lymphocytes: an important tool in the regulation of the immune response
Source: The Journal of Pathology, December 2004, vol. 204, no. 5, pp. 511-518(8)
Publisher: John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.
Abstract:
Galectin-1, a -galactoside binding protein that can occur as both a monomer and a homodimer... ...Administration of high concentrations of galectin-1 may be a useful tool in the treatment of T-cell-mediated diseases. (note from duane, certain hepatitis are "T-Cell mediated disease which is why I used glyconutrients for my sister with chronic Hepatitis C).
References concerning Galactin-1 and Autoimmune
“Galectin-1 had shown therapeutic activity against autoimmune disease in two experimental models, i.e., experimental autoimmune myasthenia gravis (10) and experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis (11). However, the molecular mechanisms involved in these immunomodulatory properties still remain to be elucidated. In this context, hypotheses have been raised concerning the ability of galectin-1 to affect processes in T cell suppressor commitment (11) and in sensitization or deletion of Ag-specific T cells (10). On the basis of recent investigations, there is evidence for specific cell growth-inhibitory activity of galectin-1 (7, 8) and its implication in apoptosis of activated T cells (25) and a particular subset of immature thymocytes (26).”
(from The Journal of Immunology, 1998, 160: 4831-4840.
Activated Rat Macrophages Produce a Galectin-1-Like Protein That Induces Apoptosis of T Cells: Biochemical and Functional Characterization1
Gabriel A. Rabinovich2,*, María M. Iglesias , Nidia M. Modesti3, , Leonardo F. Castagna3, , Carlota Wolfenstein-Todel , Clelia M. Riera* and Claudia E. Sotomayor*)
10. Levi, G., R. Tarrab-Hazdai, V. I. Teichberg. 1983. Prevention and therapy with electrolectin of experimental autoimmune myasthenia gravis in rabbits. Eur. J. Immunol. 13:500.[Medline]
11. Offner, H., B. Celnik, T. S. Bringman, D. Casentini-Borocz, G. E. Nedwin, A. Vandenbark. 1990. Recombinant human ß-galactoside binding lectin suppresses clinical and histological signs of experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis. J. Neuroimmunol. 28:177.[Medline]
REGULATION OF IMMUNE HOMEOSTASIS:ROLE OF SECRETED AND INTRACELLULAR GALECTIN-1
“…Although galectin-1 is widely expressed in a large number of tissues and fulfills pleiotropic extracellular functions, it specifically acts on the immune response by preventing autoimmune and inflammatory processes….”
http://www.szbk.hu/modules.php?name=Sections&op=viewarticle&artid=25
Regulation of Immune Responses by Galectins
…Possibly because of galectin-1's apoptotic nature, the introduction of galectin-1 in various autoimmune model systems results in the amelioration of clinical symptoms…
http://www.gak.co.jp/FCCA/glycoword/ISA03/IS-A03E.html
Hepatology
Volume 31, Issue 2 , Pages 399 - 406
Galectin-1 exerts immunomodulatory and protective effects on concanavalin a-induced hepatitis in mice Luca Santucci, M.D., Ph.D. 1 *, Stefano Fiorucci 1, Francesco Cammilleri 1, Giuseppe Servillo 2, Barbara Federici 1, Antonio Morelli 1
ABSTRACT
Galectin-1, an endogenous lectin with immunomodulatory activities, ...The present study suggests that galectin-1 is potentially useful in the treatment of T-cell-mediated human liver disorders. J Dairy Sci. 2005 Feb;88(2):766-75.
Immune parameters of dry cows fed mannan oligosaccharide and subsequent transfer of immunity to calves.
"...Results indicate that supplementation of MOS to cows during the dry period enhanced their immune response to rotavirus and tended to enhance the subsequent transfer of rotavirus antibodies to calves."
Galectin-1 suppresses experimental colitis in mice. Gastroenterology. 2003 May;124(5):1381-94 "...CONCLUSION: Collectively, these data show that hrGAL-1 exerts protective and immunomodulatory activity in TNBS-induced colitis and it might be effective in the treatment of inflammatory bowel diseases."
Galectin-1 plays essential roles in adult mammalian nervous tissues. Roles of oxidized galectin-1. Glycoconj J. 2004;19(7-9):479-89.
Identification of oxidized galectin-1 as an initial repair regulatory factor after axotomy in peripheral nerves. Neurosci Res. 2000 Oct;38(2):131-7.
Oxidized galectin-1 stimulates macrophages to promote axonal regeneration in peripheral nerves after axotomy. J Neurosci. 2004 Feb 25;24(8):1873-80
Galectin-1 in regenerating motoneurons. Eur J Neurosci. 2004 Dec;20(11):2872-80.
Galectin-1 expression correlates with the regenerative potential of rubrospinal and spinal motoneurons. Neuroscience. 2004;128(4):713-9
Distribution of the galectin-1 mRNA in the rat nervous system: its transient upregulation in rat facial motor neurons after facial nerve axotomy. Neuroscience. 2004;125(1):171-8.
(If anyone reads this far) E-mail me if you want more. I never realize how much information I have collected until I try and list it or read through it again. At least I am trying to be thorough.
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Hi, still reading this last page, quite a bit of info to get through. But wanted to say how sorry I am that this has happened to you, Kittycat. Thanks for the warning! I haven't had any emails in your name, but I have had emails that have the subject "none" and there is nothing in the content. My husband told me to delete them as soon as I get them, but I am curious as to what the heck they are. Wrong forum, I know, but anyone have any idea what that is? I'm getting them frequently, almost every day, and only since the new year. I don't even think my email is public on this forum, actually.
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Ok, that's great stuff, Duane, and I'm going to send a link for a friend to read it. Strangely, I've been looking into lectins lately, so this is another sign I should have a closer look. Thanks.
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I have been reading your posts and came across a website of a company that sounds like it has done much of what you are talking about. The owner says that he has gotten threatening letters from Mannatech because of what he has done with glyconutrients.
They have links to alot of research and claimes that his glyconutrients called glycomannan is being used in a oncology clinical trial.
here is the website http://www.glycomannan.com/ they have some interesting stuff.
They also have a link to buy it but no distributorship or multi-level which I thought was kind of strange. I don't see how they will make it without multi-level marketing of some kind but the owner says he is hoping to bring glyconutrients to the level of a respected healthcare alternative not just a get rich quick scheme. They say that their Lab is even registered with the FDA whatever that means.
What was of primary interest to me is thier use of specific polysaccharides - which occur in the form of Beta-D-glucans bound to amino acids found in concentrates of certain mushrooms particularly the ****ake and reishi.
They also make claims of Kamut grass concentrate being able to help activate the glyconutrients when taken together, but I could find no science to anywhere to really back up this claim.
All in all though an interesting development on the glyconutrient front.
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From the glycomannan web site:
"Scientists have discovered that our modern diet is missing some very vital nutrients. Surprisingly enough, these missinig nutrients are called sugars!"
Has there ever been a proper study that actually supports this claim? Could someone give me a link, please?
Thanks!
Greg
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I came across this forum in search for information about glyconutrients. Duane, I thank you the most for helping me to understand what Mannatech is all about in this arena. Your information seems to be well researched and backed up by recognized scientific resources. More so than Mannatech.
It seems to me with the success that Mannatech is having with its glyconutrient products that there would be other similar products provided by reputable manufacturers that would be available at health food stores such as GNC. Any comment?
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Mannatechers -
Just wanted to say thanks for all the stuff you put my family through the last month of my moms life. I especially enjoyed when you called my dad up at the hotel the night before she went in for brain surgery and told him "don't do the surgery, just call it off and take the glyconutrients". With your high school education I'm sure you are well qualified to make such medical suggestions. It was brilliant to jump in at that moment, when they were so vulnerable and in such emotional turmoil. I love how you convinced my dad to spend over a thousand dollars to buy into the company because "the products are really going to pay for themselves" and "of course this going to save her life". How fast it moved from saving my moms life to getting them into the business. I really enjoyed how you used your position as friend to convince us that you just honestly cared. She is dead and of course I am angry. This is a dangerous game you people are playing, right up there with crack dealers and female slave trafficking. Yes we were fools, we were desperate. We were not looking for a miracle drug, but you were looking for desperate people. I'm not angry that it did not save her life, I am angry about every minute that you stole from my families precious time.
Peoples health is not something you just throw around like you have the slightest clue what you are talking about. If you are not a PHD, MD in medicine and biology than keep your mouth shut about what people need for their bodies.
If you or someone you know is dying than please do not turn to one of these people that push this stuff like heroin on a desperate junky. Rather, when they turn to you, as they have an eye for desperate souls, run fast and do not let their toxic mouths be opened.
How angry you must feel mannatechers that I speak this way, for I dought you would have sadness for the loss of my mother.
I do not wish to pursuade you all from this product only to give a caution and personal note on what damaging things have happend because of the people involved. As for the product itself, well, it is too tainted with my moms blood for me to honestly consider it now. I hope nobody else has to go through this like we did.
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Hey, This looks like the place for a real two way disscussion
of glyco-nutrients. Almost everywhere I look there is a lot of hype.
I am a user of the mannatech products. Over all, I am satisfied with the results I get compaired to other supplements such as vitamins. I am not overly taxed phisiologicly. Before taking the optimal health system I was more tired all the time than now. Have had very gradual improvements in my well being. Am more happy now. I think I was depressed before.
I've been researching the products and have some questions about dosage.
How do you arrive at the correct amount to take. Is there any blood serum markers? If fresh raw foods contain Glyconutrients then how much does an averge apple, carrot or tomato have compaired to the capsul of say ambrotose? Surely there is quantitative analysis of the chemical makeup being done. Who wants to publish the findings? Why not?
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Glyconutrients are nutrients missing from our modern diets that our body must have to repair and rebuild. Its the building blocks for cellular communication. There are 200 sugars found in nature, but glyconutrients are 8 essential sugars that go directly to the protein surface of each and every cell in our bodies to form a complex system for cellular communication, the "operating system" of the body.
The body will heal itself if given the proper tools to do so. So therefore, all disease conditions can improve with proper nutrition.
Check out:
Sugars That Heal - Dr. Emil I. Mondoa, MD and Mindy Kitei
Maggots, Wonder Drugs, Transplants & Genomes - Memoirs of an Old Doctor Whose Career Has Spanned It All - Rayburne W. Goen, MD
The Healing Power of 8 Sugars - An Amazing Breakthrough in Nutrition, Science and Medicine - What Doctors want YOU to know about Glyconutrients...The 8 Sugars Vital to Your Health - Compiled and Edited by Allan C. Somersall, PhD, MD
I've been studying glycobiology and glyconutrients for over a year now and I'd be glad to try and answer any questions.
The truth shall set you free! ~ Blessings, Joy
Joy
Not2B4Gotten.com
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Glyconutrients are nutrients missing from our modern diets that our body must have to repair and rebuild. Its the building blocks for cellular communication. There are 200 sugars found in nature, but glyconutrients are 8 essential sugars that go directly to the protein surface of each and every cell in our bodies to form a complex system for cellular communication, the "operating system" of the body.
The body will heal itself if given the proper tools to do so. So therefore, all disease conditions can improve with proper nutrition.
Check out:
Sugars That Heal - Dr. Emil I. Mondoa, MD and Mindy Kitei
Maggots, Wonder Drugs, Transplants & Genomes - Memoirs of an Old Doctor Whose Career Has Spanned It All - Rayburne W. Goen, MD
The Healing Power of 8 Sugars - An Amazing Breakthrough in Nutrition, Science and Medicine - What Doctors want YOU to know about Glyconutrients...The 8 Sugars Vital to Your Health - Compiled and Edited by Allan C. Somersall, PhD, MD
I've been studying glycobiology and glyconutrients for over a year now and I'd be glad to try and answer any questions.
The truth shall set you free! ~ Blessings, Joy
Joy
Not2B4Gotten.com
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Joy, if the body generates on its own the essential sugars, then why is it necessary to consume these sugars? Are you suggesting that we need to consume these sugars in our diets? I would think that good nutrition is necessary so that the body functions properly, but I don't think that necessitates these monosaccarides in our diets.
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You are correct. We do not need the "monosaccharides" (unless we have a genetic dysfunction making them), and very little, if any, of these monosaccharides are derived from the ingredients in "glyconutrient" supplements.
Even Bill McAnalley, the person who began this craze, states that he estimates only about 20% of the monosaccharides that make up these ingredients gets absorbed (direct face-to-face personal communication with him) though there isn't any published research to support any get absorbed, or that they aren't all just converted to glucose soon thereafter.
Deficient from our diets? Vitamins and minerals, and even essential amino acids can be deficient from our diets, but these sugars are made by our bodies in sufficient amounts every day. You can't be deficient in something your body efficiently makes, and no "deficiency" of these sugars has ever been documented except in those people that have a genetic inability to synthesize them.
Do these "glyconutrients" work? Yes, but not because of the individual sugars getting absorbed, but because of the the effects of the whole chain of these sugars, and by MANY mechanisms, not just by one. Many of these mechanisms have already been elucidated in this forum and in the curezone.com forum. So I won't reiterate them now. But take a look. I think you will be impressed, even when you get past the marketing hype of the MLM company. Especially when you realize you can get the ingredients yourself much cheaper if you want to try them.
Duane
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>and no "deficiency" of these sugars has ever been documented except in those people that have a genetic inability to synthesize them.
This has been one of my questions for some time now. Where do proponents of glyconutrients get the idea that our modern diet is deficient in this respect? I have been unable to locate any study that even suggests it. I did, however, find a study that compares the presence of some nutrients (protein, Ca, P, Fe, riboflavin and ascorbic acid) in some vegetables harvested in 1999 to the levels found in 1950:
http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/abstract/23/6/669
It would be more than a stretch to use this study as evidence for the sugar deficiency, the way I see it. Can any of the "associates" who participate on this forum point out any other documentation?
Thanks!
Greg
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The mistaken assumption of these substances being deficient in our diet is outlined in the paper "Is Saccharide Supplementation Necessary" at: http://www.glycoscience.com/glycoscience/start_frames.wm?FILENAME=D008
This paper may impress the lay public, but is grossly mistaken in many of its suppositions when trying to be convincing that we need to supplement our diet with individual saccharides.
One of the main mistakes it makes is to compare these substances with vitamins and minerals. The major difference is that vitamins and minerals cannot be made by your body, the saccharides can. There are many other mistaken and irrelevent assumptions made by this paper as well. Basically, there is no support that we need the individual saccharides.
However, realize that the ingredients in their supplement are NOT the individual saccharides. They are complex, non-digestible chains of the sugars, that are considered dietary fiber. And more and more research is showing that both soluble and insoluble fibers have many important benefits in health, and that we do not get enough in our diet.
Also, different fibers can have different benefits/effects on health, so a combination is better than just adding one kind to your cereal in the morning. This is where Mannatech's supplement has been beneficial (though there are many more economical and effective alternatives) These fibers can stimulate the immune system, eliminate opportunistic microorganisms, improve blood-sugar levels, decrease cholesterol, improve liver function, improve healing, prevent certain cancers, etc. (see previous posts on this forum and the curezone.com forum).
So there is the alternative view to the marketing hype.
Duane
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I am so disapointed when I read about people who are so mistrusting of products that can really help them, I wonder if they were in as much pain themselves as others are who use glyconutrients, if maybe they would be a little more ready to use it themselves. The problem with Drs. who don't like it, is that they don't want people to find a way to get better themselves. And honestly most of them don't know that much about nutrition. I have had back surgery, been in tremendous pain, I have steel rods and cages with screws in my back, I had fibromyalgia, severe arthritis, osteoporosis, tumors in one breast, and a cholesteral level that stayed between 350 and 400 at all time. So yes I was desperate, and skeptical, because I had bought all kinds of "herbs" and products in the past that just wasted my money. But my friend talked me into the glyconutrients, so I started taking Advanced Ambrotose in Sept of 05, I went in Feb of 06 to get my yearly checkup, (meanwhile I had quit taking my cholesteral meds, and fosomax (osteoporosis meds) back in Sept. However I don't advise that for anyone. I did it because the meds were making me sick, Anyhow to make a long story short, I got back all my tests, and the bone scan shows that I have the bones of a 30 year old woman now, and said I no longer have osteoporosis, my cholesteral dropped from 367 down to 236, My arthritis pain and the pain in my back has virtually disapered. I would challenge any Dr. or hospital to tell me that my body just healed itself without the help of glyconutrients. I will always be on them, because finally at 49 years old, I feel like I have my life back. What I pay for the product is not only worth it, but is made up for due to the fact that I no longer have to be on some of my meds.
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We are not mistrusting of the supplements, they work wonderfully, but we mistrust the companies that sell them.
Because these supplements worked for you, you probably believe that it was because that you absorbed 8 sugars that helped your body heal itself. However, while the supplement does work, it had nothing to do with 8 sugars being absorbed. In fact there is no research showing you absorb any sugars from these substances, or that they have even increased even one glycoprotein, or even if a glycoprotein was increased, that it had anything to do with helping your symptoms.
However, virtually all of your symptoms/problems that you described can easily be shown to be effected positively by other mechanisms. For example, did you know that soluble fibers (like the ingredients in these supplements) have been shown to significantly increase the absorption of calcium, and are being investigated for their use in treating osteoporosis?
Yes the supplements work. We take them and highly recommend them. However, since the main company doesn't actually make these ingredients, but only buys them from other companies, mixes them and then sells them for a ridiculous price, it is much cheaper to buy the ingredients separately and mix it your self. Same results, but a 4 months supply for the price of one from that company.
Glad you are doing well. Glyconutrients are great.
Duane
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Just read this whole thread and was amazed at the negative responses to Duane! He was always clear and succint in his posts.
Duane, I for one appreciate your candor and scientific responses. I never thought you disliked glyconutrients, only the way they were being falsely marketed by a certain company.
I was surprised that you had to repeat this over and over and over again.
I'm heading over to curezone to see what else has been discussed.
Take care,
Julieanne
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In my opinion, Mannatech's supplements are worthwhile, however the way that they market these prodeucts gets them horrible press, due to greedy sellers who make false claims. I'm sure that many of the sellers are honest people who really are trying to make in difference, but if Mannatech would have just done a normal routine and marketed their products through GNC and such, they would be not have the bad press that they have today. The only reason for the bad press and sceptisism is the fact that they rely on network marketing, and have have so many sellers who want your money and nothing more.
The products do work, and the prices are rediculous, but hopefully sometime soon the will be an alternate solution that will educate people without being greedy or pushy.
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Starslayer, I think you are missing the point. It is the company, Mannatech, that has caused the problem by setting up a false premise of how their glyconutrients work. Sure, you will have some bad apples in netrwork marketing as you do in all endeavors. However, network marketing in and of itself is not the problem. Sometimes it can be individuals letting greed get ahead of the truth that is the problem, but in this case it is the company that is the primary problem, not the product, network marketing, or the individuals, even though there is some mix of all of this. If this product were placed in GNC with the same explanation of how it works it would be just as misleading as it is by a network marketing company.
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quote:
Originally posted by marathoner
Some who disparage glyconutrient supplements claim the saccharides are not assimilated. However, radioactive tracer studies have shown oral ingestion of mannose leads to cellular glycosylation:
Alton G;Hasilik M;Niehues R;Panneerselvam K;Etchison JR;Fana F;Freeze HH;. Direct utilization of mannose for mammalian glycoprotein biosynthesis. Glycobiology. 1998; 8: 285-295.
And many studies show beneficial clinical effects of glyconutrient supplementation.
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You will note that the study that you list concerns "mannose". The mannose in Mannatech's product is Acemannan, a beta-linked chain of Mannose molecules. In order for the mannose to be absorbed, the Acemannan would haveto be broken down into individual mannose molecules, and your body does not make the enzyme to do that in your intestine.
The micro-organisms in your large intestine can break it down, so that they can digest the mannose, and during this process some mannose may be absorbed, but the amount would be extremely small - if at all. Most of it would be used by the micro-organisms and converted to Short-Chain Fatty Acids. (which are beneficial)
However, the whole acemannan molecule is similar to the chains of saccharides on the cell walls of many micro-organisms, such as yeasts. Your the acemannan binds to certain receptors in the intestine and your body reacts as if it has high levels of negative micro-organisms, stimulating the immune system.
Short-chain fatty acids and stimulating immune system via receptors within your intestine are just two of the many, many mechanisms that can be shown to be working here. Current research, however, does not support that the effects of these substances have anything to do with absorbing these sugars that your body can readily synthesize.
We don't disparage the supplement. They do work. We disparage the faulty explanation of their mechanism of action that was developed to sell the product.
If you go to glycoscience.com, and look at the two latest articles in their Glycoscience journal, many of these alternative mechanisms that we have been listing for the last year (or more) are now beginning to be addressed by this company. I would not be surprised if eventually the 8 sugar hypothesis is dropped entirely as more of the actual research is published showing no effects of these supplements on glycoconjugates.
As we have said before, it works, just not how Mannatech is telling everyone it works. AND, you can easily make your own with same or better benefits for a fraction of the price. Just go to:
http://www.curezone.com/forums/m.asp?f=223&i=2024
Duane
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Duane, since this supplement works so well why doesn't some company provide a less expensive version similar to your homemade recipe without all the bogus marketing about the 8 sugars healing power? Can you answer this?
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I don't know why.
I know that Mannatech is now suing Glycobiotics for patent infringement, so I think you will see less and less knock-offs. One of the ways that these companies could avoid this would be to market their combination of ingredients with information on the actual mechanisms and not mentioning the 8 sugar hypothesis.
I have talked to some of the people who make some of these competing products, and shared with them the information about the faulty science of the 8 sugar hypothesis, and while they are very interested, and cannot find any evidence to support it, the 8 sugar hypothesis is very easy to market, and people are familiar with it...even if it is basically a lie.
I have never talked to one of the people at these companies that actually took the time to research the validity of Mannatechs claims before I informed them of the lack of scientific support. They had seen the research listed by Mannatech's websites on the individual sugars and it never occurred to them that those sugars wouldn't be available from the ingredients Mannatech uses.
You will note, however, that Mannatech's glycoscience.com website has the "Glycoscience and Nutrition Journal" and that the last two articles listed in this journal are about the effects of these substances on the intestines, and the importance of probiotics. Basically they reiterate the mechanisms that we have been stating for over the last year. As more research comes out showing their 8 sugar hypotheses to be wrong, they will slowly shift towards the explanations we have been pointing out. They have already started. But they have to take it slow since their blind faithful will not take the change in explanation easily.
Did that answer the question?
Duane
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I think you basically answered the question. In one word it is ignorance. Thanks.
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::::* enlargement of a number of T-cells and increasing of major histocompatibility complex (MHC-II) molecule on the surface of an antigen-presenting cells of spleen, mesenteric lymph nodes, thymus was noted::::::
If this is true, then this product would be devastating effects on someone with an autoimmune disease, where a person makes too many T-Cells that then destroy parts of the body.
I'll make sure to warn my autoimmune friends on another discussion board about this.
Thanks!
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One last thing...Kittycat mentions that this product includes sugars that are only found in breastmilk. And then she claims that human adults need to ingest this sugar or they'll get sick?
Is she trying to say that God wanted humans to continue drinking breastmilk - even as adults?
Sounds really crazy to me. I have a hard time believing that.
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I recently heard about the products offered by Mannatech from a relative of mine who suggested that I try them for my numerous health issues, which are all related to chronic kidney disease. I received a transplant a year ago, and it is working well at present, but there are numerous side effects from the transplant medications, which include steroids (prednisone, 10mg/day) and others that are intended to suppress the body's immune system from attacking the transplant, medications that I will have to take as long as I have the transplant. There are also other issues, including Hepatitis C (which I contracted from a previous transplant), bone and skin deterioration, high blood pressure, increased sensitivity to viruses and germs, etc. I read through this entire thread, as well as some of the links that have been posted, but I don't see anything that answers my primary question, which is: If ambrotose helps to boost the immune system, wouldn't it therefore be harmful to a transplanted organ? The only term that I have seen on here that I recognize is the reference to strengthened or enlarged T-cells, which the medication I currently take is designed to suppress. That would seem to be one contraindication, even though the relative I spoke to says there are no known drug interactions with ambrotose. "No known" doesn't mean, however, that there aren't any. Any input would be appreciated.
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I am a new poster to this forum. I have been busy today reading all the discussion re: glconutrients etc. My wife and i have been using Mannatech products for approximately 1 month. I use Ambrotose plus some of the other recommended products, my wife has been using only the Ambrotose. My wife suffers from cluster migraines, most of which are triggered by various food allergies but can also be triggered by perfumes, stress, cigarette smoke, even changes in air pressure. For many months now she has been taking therapeutic doses of quercetin and other similar products on the advice of her naturopath doctor in order to heal what is presumed to be a pretty compromised digestive system and hence a defective immune system. We are desperate to find a solution to the migraines. Anyone who has ever had these or watched a loved one in agony during an episode will understand the desperation. So Ambrotose is the latest attempt. After one month she is stopping the use of Ambrotose. In the last few weeks she has had a record number of migraines and the only reason we can come up with is the use of Ambrotose. We don't know what it is about the product that may be causing this but would be interested to hear from anyone out there who may have had similar experiences. Also if Duane of some of the other more thoughtful posters might have some insight as to why that would be greatly appreciated. We will continue to search for something that will give her immune system and digestive system a healing boost without making her sick like the Ambrotose has. Maybe we'll try the Limu Moui drink next.
Art
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First time on forum but glad I found it. I had worked in Pharmacy for 8 years and had a friend introduce me to the Mannatech products(since left as I could not continue giving the general population false hope or convincing those that were well, they were not).
After also reading all the information they load you up with (the mannatech ppl), and not coming across any actual evidence that proved the effectiveness of 'their' product - decided not to get involved. It is now a year and some later and I am still the victim of harrassment by an individual intent on 'converting' me. I too also had false claims of wellness put forward to me. It was funnily enough always 'a friend' or 'a friend of a friend' that found good results with these products (often a Lupus sufferer or HIV patient). Again, like Duane I am not disputing the fact that Glyconutrients work. I think they do. But personally, I think the delivery system of the Mannatech Glyconutrients is flawed. Not only the way the product is absorbed into the body (or is it?) but their sales people seem to appear as if they were in cults. And although not religious I can't believe that people claim this is the work of God. I'm sure he'd completely justify the excessive amount of money it costs for this product. Some people think any money is worth your health and i'm sure if it was for sale - i'd buy it. But one thing I find horribly wrong is telling people it will reverse terminal illness. People are free to try any alternative/modern medicine they like - I recommend it, hell I wouldnt give up just like that. But making false claims about false studies to extort exhuberant amounts of money from people (that even pharmaceutical companies are careful not to do) really does take the cake. Sending pictures of a deceased child around the world - claiming to have saved his life just sickens me to the stomach.
If you want to take glyconutrients - awesome. Just be selective about your sources. If your health is worth investing in then make your money count for something. Some people say they dont have the time to do this? Well, your time is free. If your health or your families health is worthy of it - then use your time on something that will count
Only one word springs to my mind when someone mentions Mannatech - and that's Greed. Hmm isnt that one of the 7 sins? :)
Go Glyco !! [:D]
P.S. I can't believe I purchased an Ab King Pro Haha
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quote:
Originally posted by Ylide
Here's the deal: Your body can synthesize any saccharide it requires from protein intake. There is no such thing as an essential sugar. So, unless you have a genetic mutation which alters an enzyme that catalyzes one of the synthetic pathways from amino acid to a particular sugar, most glyconutrients are a waste of your money.
Our bodies will convert excess amino acids, like glutamine, to glucose, a process known as gluconeogenesis. This process is utilized for energy production.
The nutrients that are the focus of this forum however, are not a part of this metabolic pathway. The monosaccharides that make up the the glycoforms on the cells surface must either be acquired in the diet or the body must manufacture them via enzymatic pathways. These pathways require numerous amounts a vitamins, minerals, enzymes and a tremendous amount of energy.
These pathways can breakdown due to stress, toxins, oxidants, etc. that may cause these structures to be misformed on the cells surface, leaving the cell vulnerable to infection, distruction by ones own immune cells, or may even lead to an increase in cell replication as seen in cancer.
As for the diet, be careful of the choices you make. Most commercial produce is grown in nutrient deficient soils that utilize synthetic fertilizers, sprayed with pesticides, green harvested and then sprayed with synthetic plant hormones to initiate the ripening process.
Whenever possible buy Organic or from your local Farmer's Market and look for "vine-ripened" produce. Phytonutrients and sugars are not fully produced unless fruits and vegetables are allowed to ripen on the plant. Just eat as well as you possibly can.
I want to leave this post at that. The choice to use dietary supplements must be left up to the individual and his or her health practitioner.
I wish you all Vibrant Health...
Melanie
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I read the previous threads ... and it seems like there is a bit of misinformation being passed on. Quite a bit of confusing babble.
The Science behind Glyconutrition is unquestionable. The problem with an individual acheiving expected results is not.
Bottom line, the Body was designed to heal itself. When an individual chooses to give the body what it needs to health itself, the body will respond accordingly. There is plenty of evidence to support this fact.
The two greatest deterrents to genuine recovery from physical ailments are misinformation (ignorance) and laziness (indifference).
The greatest ignorance our medical community stumbles over is how do they engage, enhance, in vigor the body's own defense system to heal itself. The immune system was designed by God to handle cancer, viruses, bacteria's, poisons, injuries and to rebuild itself on a daily basis. Glyconutrients facilitate cell to cell communication, which modulates the immune system. When it is too aggressive, it pulls the reins back, when it's too passive (due to lack of clear cell to cell communication) it bumps up the production of needed resources. That why is works for both immune diseases and auto-immune diseases as stated below in the United States Patent.
Every prescription a physician prescribes for a patient by definition is a poison, and as a result will inhibit rather than enhance the body's own ability to heal itself.
Drug Therapy (which only focuses on Symptom Care) does not even begin to ask the question, what does the body need to heal itself. Instead, when a patient comes into the office with a symptom the doctor looks up in the drug book what poison he "should" prescribe to address the symptom ... all the while knowing that this drug may cause more symptoms, and may cause the patient more necessary visits to the doctor's office before real relief comes to the patient. Many, many drugs supplied by the pharmaceutical companies are designed to be needed for the rest of one's life. This is capitalism in it's finest refinement. The medical community has a greater vested interest in keeping people from getting well, than it does in curing them. Can someone say, "Conflict of Interest"? For every healed patient a doctor treats, he loses a lifetime customer. And the drug company loses it guaranteed stream of income. And that wouldn't exactly make their investors happy ... and so on.
The Alternative to symptom care is whole life health care. Treating the Body as a whole and giving it everything it needs to overcome any attack that it is experiencing.
Glyconutrition is not magic. It is not a quick fix. It is not and does not claim to work independently of other vital nutritional therapies.
But many have found relief and genuine health who were dead serious about their health because for them it was a life or death decision, and they wanted to choose life (but were told by their medical doctors, "there is nothing more medical science can do for you," and were given less than a couple months to live. BTW--Mannatech has very specific and very realistic "Fighting for your life dosages" of nutritional supplements, even using some that are not sold by their company. And from which they receive no kick back).
My challenge to anyone who is skeptical of Mannatech's track record is to show me the list of people any other company's products have on restoring health in the list below ... and then compare notes. My only concern in the comparison is over all effectiveness. How many lives were truly saved. I know mine has been redeemed. I know others that have also. And I know I never received the results I expected from many others products that proclaimed to be effective but produced no immediate and no lasting effect on my health conditions.
If there is a better company with a better verifiable track record please let me know about it, because I truly want to know about it. Getting results is what matters and helping people restore their health in the most practical and cost effective manner possible, is what we should all be helping each other do ... and for that I am grateful to the website ... and everyone's involvement and opinions.
These people decided to choose a different course, to rid their bodies and environment of the known toxins and to offer their bodies a fighting chance by providing it with a power packed supply of glyconutrients, phyto-nutrients, phyto-sterols, anti-oxidants, pure clean enhance drinking water, and clean air. These people who were not expected to live walked out of their hospital beds and back to work and pain free in a couple months time. Several individuals come to mind that followed this scenario.
I know it's worked for autism, down syndrome, migranes, ADD, ADHD, of which I am one, and other mental and nuerological disorders.
Below I will cut a paste a list presented in the US patent office that lists a few of the improved conditions that was reveiwed by the US Patent Office before offering a Patent on the Ambrotose product.
As far as the previous greed statement indictment goes: I would have to agreed. That is the sad but true nature of the world we live in. That is the spirit of every company in the US ... materialism is the mother of invention it seems. But that hasn't blocked people from buying a new Ford, or Nike's or a Coke or a Bud Light or any of the other products people daily consume ... so I find it hard to level that indictment at a nutraceutical company--which isn't cutting the pie of profit as nearly as deep as these other companies. What's the production cost of a pair of Nike Air Jordan's in Korea? (am I dating myself)... 53 cents, if that?
The cost of nutritional therapy as opposed to the alternative is not even in the ball park. What's a couple thousand to spend on getting your life back, and giving your body the opportunity to heal itself?
People spend way more than that on their clothing budgets, vacation budgets, and car budgets every year. What's more valuable the clothes and makeup and stuff, or the car you drive around in to look good to your neighbors, or your body itself. People need to line up their priorities straight.
I know I've been long winded and I apologize for that ... I will close with the following Glyconutrient list of benefits ... hope this is helpful to someone:
TABLE 4 Disorders treated by administration of glyconutrients alone or in combination with one or more of phytonutrients, dioscorea complex and vitamins and minerals. NUTRITIONAL PRODUCTS DISORDER ADMINISTERED TREATMENT RESULTS aging process or A, B, C, D decreased body fat; optimal health plan increased muscle mass and bone density; serum bio- chemistry altered to more healthy values old stable strokes A, B, C restored sensory and muscular control multiple sclerosis A, B, C restored sensory and muscular control amyotrophic lateral A, B, C restored sensory and sclerosis muscular control muscular dystrophy A, B, C restored sensory and muscular control cerebral palsy A, B, C restored sensory and muscular control macular degeneration A, B, C sight restorations seizures A, B, C reduction or elimination of allergies and infections; coordination, learning, memory and appearance improvements Down's Syndrome A, B, C reduction or elimination of allergies & infections; coordination, learning, memory and appearance improvements systemic combined A, B, C antibody and T-cell immune deficiency function restoration syndrome Tay-Sachs A, B, C restoration of lost functions retinitis pigmentosis A, B, C sight restoration color blindness A, B, C can see color Huntington's chorea A, B, C restoration or improvement of lost functions Alzheimer's A, B, C restoration or improvement of lost functions Parkinson's A, B, C restoration or improvement of lost functions inflammatory A, B, C restoration or improvement polyneuropathy of lost functions Closed head traumatic A, B, C restoration or improvement syndromes of lost functions spinal cord injury A, B, C restoration or improvement of lost functions ulcerative colitis A, B, C healed ulcers Crohn's disease A, B, C healed ulcers schizophrenia A, B, C improvements in functions depression A, B, C improvements in functions anxiety reactions A, B, C improvements in functions compulsive disorders A, B, C improvements in functions nervous tics A, B, C improvements in functions restless leg syndrome A, B, C improvements in functions Tourette's syndrome A, B, C improvements in functions autism A, B, C improvements in functions Wegener's A, B, C restoration of tissue granulomatosis Lupus E. A, B healing of lesions Rheumatoid arthritis A, B relief of symptoms thyroiditis A, B normalization of antinuclear antibodies myesthenia gravis A, B normalization of antinuclear antibodies diabetes mellitus A, B normalization of glucose and Hgb AIC; restoration of renal functions; healing of ulcers, elimination of infec- tion; elevated lipids normal- ize; reduced insulin and glycomeds osteoporosis A, B reduced pain increased bone density alcoholism A reduction in craving cocaine A reduction in craving atherosclerosis A, B reduced total cholesterol, LDL, and triglycerides and increased HDL; improved patency of vessels and arrhythmia idiopathic myocarditis A, B increased ejection function; (presumed viral origin) restoration of heart size; increased Coxsackievirus antibody levels; and reversal of heart failure rheumatoid arthritis A, B elimination of pain, stiff- ness, fever, and swelling; restoration of scope of motion, strength and endurance degenerative arthritis A, B elimination of pain, stiff- ness, fever, and swelling; restoration of scope of motion, strength and endurance traumatic arthritis A, B elimination of pain, stiff- ness, fever, and swelling; restoration of scope of motion, strength and endurance juvenile arthritis A, B elimination of pain, stiff- ness, fever, and swelling; restoration of scope of motion, strength and endurance asthma A elimination of shortness of breath and wheezing and improvement of pulmonary function allergy - nasal, eyes, A elimination of itching, hay fever swelling, rash discomfort silicon breast implant A, B, C reduction or elimination of symptoms environmental toxin A, B, C reduction or elimination of syndrome symptoms agent orange A, B, C reduction or elimination of symptoms Gulf War syndrome A, B, C reduction or elimination of symptoms Hepatitis B & C A, C, D normalization of liver enzymes and symptoms influenza virus A, C, D prevention or amelioration; improvement of symptoms common cold A, C, D prevention or amelioration; improvement of symptoms AIDS A, C, D elimination of symptoms; m-RNA of HIV-1 is unde- tected; restored immune function herpes A, C, D elimination of infestations warts A, C, D elimination of infestations human papillovirus A, C, D elimination of infestations otitis media (chronic A, C, D elimination of symptoms or persistent) and need for antibiotics leukemia A, B, C, D correction of altered chromosomes lymphomas A, B, C, D normalization of tissue biopsies sarcomas A, B, C, D normalization of tissue (astrocytomas) biopsies adenocarcinomas such A, B, C, D elimination of metastasis as breast, prostate, and shrinkage of mass to ovarian, gastrointes- undetectable level tinal and lung profound introversion A, B, C, D restoration of psychological and female impotence interest and physiological sexual function in the elderly pain, ulcers and A, C, E restoration to intact, pain- coldness of extremities less extremity and micro- in diabetes, raynauds, vascular circulation frost-bite, snake-bite and atherosclerosis sun damaged skin, age A, C, E lessening of pigmentation, damaged skin, and wrinkles, and lost elasticity radiation damaged skin and restoration of dermis and epidermis athletic performance C, F increased strength and endurance, delayed fatigue, facilitation of recovery in young and aging athletes
In summary, this invention pertains to the field of dietary supplements and nutritional support for promotion and maintenance of optimal good health. More specifically, the invention relates to compositions of carbohydrates as dietary supplements that are essential for the production of correctly structured and, therefore, properly functioning glycoproteins.
Science has recently shown that glycoproteins play a key role in all cellular communication. Many of the cytokines, i.e. cellular "words," do not function properly without an attached glycosyl moiety. The body hydrolyzes complex polysaccharides such as plant carbohydrates into various monosugars and restructures them into oligosaccharides that are then used by the body to build the glycoproteins required by cytokines for cellular communication and, thus, for good health.
This invention will correct the problem caused by modern diets consisting of highly refined foods, from which many essential ingredients have been eliminated during processing, specifically sugars needed for correctly structured and properly functioning glycoproteins.
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This is not the deal.
This post shows a complete lack of understanding of the whole importance of glyconutrient therapy and what our bodies are not getting from our current nutritiion depleted diets.
You just walked backwards into the stone age of medicine and misunderstanding of the immune just lost 30 years of scientific and medical advancement.
The said thing is ... many doctors are still hardened and in old school training, pre-1996, Harper's Biochemistry. They were taught wrongly ... some of what was quoted below ... if not exactly in content ... definitely in attitude. And every doctor that was trained in that situation has had to come into a paradigm shift before he could reap the rewards of glyconutritional benefits for his patients and his practice. But many have made the shift and their patients are truly grateful.
Below are just a few of the citations listed in the Mannatech Patent as used as material resources.
---------------------------------
Other References
Balch, J F et al., Prescription for Nutritional Healing, 2nd Edition (1997), Avery Publishing Group (USA), pp. 7,8,12 and 43-46. .
Murray R K et al., Harper's Biochemistry, Appleton & Lange, 1996, pp. 648-666. .Remington, J.S. et al. Industrial Chemist and Chemical Manufacturer (1927), 3:155-7. Breakfast, invalid and infant food. .
Balch, J F etal., Prescription for Nutritional Healing, 2.sup.nd Edition (1997). Avery Publishing Group (USA), pp. 7, 8, 12-33 and 43-46. .
Kato, T et al. Jozo Kyokai Zasshi (1964), 59(5): 431-4. Soybean hull. II. Hydrolyzate of soybean hull prepared by using cellulase. Abstract. .
Beldman, G et al. Biotechnology and Bioengineering (1987), 30(5): 668-71. Enzymic hydrolysis of beer brewer's spent grain and the influence of pretreatments. .
Beran, K et al. Ceskoslov. mikrobiol. (1956), 1: 193-203. Saccharification of starch in potato mash with fungus amylolytic preparations. .
Bartolome, A P et al. Journal of Agricultural Food Chemistry (Mar. 1995), 43: 608-612. Polysaccharides from the cell walls of pineapple fruit. .
Citkowitz, E., Development Biology (1972), 27: 494-503. Analysis of the isolated hyaline layer of sea urchin embryos. .
Balch, J.F. et al., Prescription for Nutritional Healing, 2nd Edition (1997). Avery Publishing Group (USA), pp. 7-8, 12-33 and 43-46. .
Bartolome, A.P. et al., J. Agric. Food Chem. (1995), 43: 608-612. Polysaccharides from the cell walls of pineapple fruit. .
Balch, J.F. et al., Prescription for Nutritional Healing, Second Edition, Avery Publishing Group (USA), pp. 7-8, 12-33, and 43-46, 1997. .
Alton, Gordon et al., "Direct utilization of mannose for mammalian glycoprotien biosynthesis," Glycobiology (1998) 8:3, 285-295. .
Berger, Veronique et al., "Dietary Specific Sugars for Serum Protein Enzymatic Glycosylation in Man," Metabolism (1998) 47:12, 1499-1503. .
Freeze, Hudson H., "Disorders in protein glycosylation and potential therapy: Tip of an iceberg?" The Journal of Pediatrics (Nov. 1998) 133:5, 593-600. .
Gardiner, Tom et al., "Glyconutritionals: Consolidated Review of Potential Benefits," GlycoScience & Nutrition (Jul. 2001) 2:15, 1-15. .
Martin, A. et al., "Availability of specific sugars for glycoconjugate biosynthesis: A need for further investigations in man," Biochimie (1998) 80:1, 75-86. .
Rosalind Kornfeld and Stuart Kornfeld, "Assembly of Asparagine-Linked Oligosaccharides," Ann. Rev. Biochem., 1985, vol. 54, pp. 631-64. .
Akira Kobata, "Structures and Functions of The Sugar Chains of Glycoproteins," Eur. J. Biochem., 1992, vol. 209, pp. 483-501. .
Robert K. Murray, Daryl K. Granner, Peter A. Mayes, and Victor W. Rodwell, Harper's Biochemistry, Appleton & Lange, 1996, pp. 648-49. .
J.H. Cummings, M.B. Roberfroid and members of the Paris Carbohydrate Group, H. Andersson, C. Barth, A. Ferro-Luzzi, Y. Ghoos, M. Gibney, K. Hermonson, W.P.T. James, O. Korver, D. Lairon, G. Pascal and A.G.S. Voragen, "A New Look at Dietary Carbohydrate: Chemistry, Physiology and Health," Eur. J. Clinical Nutrition, 1997, vol. 51, pp. 417-23. .
Alan D. Elbein, "Inhibitors of the Biosynthesis and Processing of N-Linked Oligosaccharide Chains," Ann. Rev. Biochem., 1987, vol. 56, pp. 497-534. .
Richard L. Jackson, Steven J. Busch, and Alan D. Cardin, "Glycosaminoglycans: Molecular Properties, Protein Interactions, and Role in Physiological Processes," Physiological Reviews, 1991, vol. 71, No. 2, pp. 481-539. .
Arthur D. Lander, "Proteoglycans in the Nervous System," Current Opinion in Neurobiology, 1993, vol. 3, pp. 716-23. .
Guido David, "Structural and Functional Diversity of the Heparan Sulfate Proteoglycans," Heparin and Related Polysaccharides, Plenum Press, 1992, pp. 69-78. .
Geraldine McDowell and William A. Gahl, "Inherited Disorders of Glycoprotein Synthesis: Cell Biological Insights," Society for Experimental Biology and Medicine, 1997, vol. 215, pp. 145-57. .
Leon Carayannopoulos and J. Donald Capra, "Immunoglobulins: Molecular Genetics," Fundamental Immunology, Third Edition, Raven Press, 1993, pp. 302-14. .
Royston Jefferis, Susan Cranmer, Yogi Arata and Noriko Takahashi, "Glycosylation Heterogeneity in Human IgG Subclass Proteins," Biochemical Society Transactions, 1988, vol. 16, pp. 340-41. .
Mi-Hua Tao and Sherie L. Morrison, "Studies of Aglycosylated Chimeric Mouse-Human IgG: Role of Carbohydrate in the Structure and Effector Functions Mediated by the Human IgG Constant Region," The Journal of Immunology, 1989, vol. 143, pp. 2595-2601. .
Scot Hickman and Stuart Kornfeld, "Effect of Tunicamycin on IgM, IgA, and IgG Secretion By Mouse Plasmacytoma Cells," The Journal of Immunology, 1978, vol. 121, No. 3, pp. 990-96. .
G. Doris, G. D'Agostaro, and A. Poretti, "Age-Dependent Variations of Antibody Avidity," Immunology, 1978, vol. 35, pp. 601-11. .
Hironori Matsuda, Satoshi Nakamura, Yataro Ichikawa, Keiji Kozai, Ryo Takano, Masato Nose, Satoshi Endo, Yoshifumi Nishimura and Yoji Arata, "Proton Nuclear Magnetic Resonance Studies of the Structure of the Fc Fragment of Human Immunoglobulin G1: Comparisons of Native and Recombinant Proteins," Molecular Immunology, 1990, vol. 27, No. 6, pp. 571-79. .
Norio Koide, Masato Nose, and Takashi Muramatsu, "Recognition of IgG by Fc Receptor and Complement: Effects of Glycosidase Digestion," Biochemical and Biophysical Research Communications, 1977, vol. 75, No. 4, pp. 838-44. .
John Lund, Toshiyuki Tanaka, Noriko Takahashi, Gabriella Sarmay, Yoji Arata, and Royston Jeferis, "A Protein Structural Change in Aglycosylated IgG3 Correlates with Loss of huFcyR1 and huFcyR111 Binding And/Or Activation," Molecular Immunology, 1990, vol. 27, pp. 1145-53. .
Johann Deisenhofer, Peter M. Colman, Otto Epp and Robert Huber, "Crystallographic Structural Studies of a Human Fc Fragment," Hoppe-Seyler's Z. Physiol. Chem., 1976, vol. 357, pp. 1421-1434. .
Jeffrey C. Edberg and Robert P. Kimberly, "Cell Type-Specific Glycoforms of FcyR111a (CD 16)," The American Association of Immunologists, 1997, pp. 3849-57. .
W. Ludo van der Pol and Jan G.J. van de Winkel, "IgG Receptor Polymorphisms: Risk Factors for Disease," Immunogenetics, 1998, vol. 48, pp. 222-32. .
Kelly P. Kerase and Gerald W. Hart, "Topology of O-Linked N-Acetylglucosamine in Murine Lymphocytes," Archives of Biochemistry and Biophysics, Nov. 1991, vol. 290, No. 2, pp. 543-48. .
M. R. Sairam, "Role of carbohydrates in glycoprotein hormone signal transduction," The FASEB Journal, Jun. 1989, vol. 3, pp. 1915-1926. .
C. A. Wilson, A. J. Leigh and A. J. Chapman, "Gonadotrophin glycosylation and function," Journal of Endocrinology, 1990, vol. 125, pp. 3-14. .
M. R. Sairam, J. Linggen, M. Dobias-Goff, J. Sairam and G. N. Bhargavi, "Mechanism of Gonadotropin Action-Dissociation of Receptor Binding and Cellular Activation," Progress in Endocrinology, 1988, pp. 1025-1031. .
quote:
Originally posted by Ylide
Here's the deal: Your body can synthesize any saccharide it requires from protein intake. There is no such thing as an essential sugar. So, unless you have a genetic mutation which alters an enzyme that catalyzes one of the synthetic pathways from amino acid to a particular sugar, most glyconutrients are a waste of your money.
Some of the more complex glyconutrients might be worth taking...but that last link in psophist's post (sugars that heal) is complete nonsense.
This message brought to you by The Council of People Who Are Sick of Seeing More People
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quote:
Originally posted by grace2succeed
This is not the deal.
This post shows a complete lack of understanding of the whole importance of glyconutrient therapy and what our bodies are not getting from our current nutritiion depleted diets.
quote:
Originally posted by Ylide
Here's the deal: Your body can synthesize any saccharide it requires from protein intake. There is no such thing as an essential sugar. So, unless you have a genetic mutation which alters an enzyme that catalyzes one of the synthetic pathways from amino acid to a particular sugar, most glyconutrients are a waste of your money.
Some of the more complex glyconutrients might be worth taking...but that last link in psophist's post (sugars that heal) is complete nonsense.
Here is the link for the entire US patent for Glyconutritional Products issued to Mannatech Incorporated in August 2005.
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6929807.pdf
Take care,
Melanie
-
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6929807.pdf
The table that lists the disorders treated by administration of glyconutrients alone and in combination with one or more of phytonutrients, dioscorea complex and vitamins and minerals (Table 4) can be located on page 14 of the PDF file.
Here is another website that may be of interest:
http://www.glycohealthservice.com/s-battle_fouts.htm
Take Care,
Melanie
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Hi everyone!
It's been interesting to read about this hotly argued debate on Mannatech and their glyonutrients. I was introduced a couple of days ago to this company through a friend, who gave me the whole sales pitch and is now calling me everyday to buy some of their products. I am not sure if i should, and as i have tried so many other things i think to myself i have nothing to lose (besides a few hundred pounds)!
Both sides of the argument make sense and seem to be backed up by some good evidence, so i'm not sure if the products will actual work and are worth giving a go, or saving my money and spending it on other therapy??? HELP!!!
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Mimi,
I am sure that your friend is sharing this information with you because she truly cares about you. It really is not just all about the glyconutrients. Being overweight or obese is a serious condition that leads to many health related problems.
The weight loss program that your friend is probably sharing with you supplies the body with all essential nutrients to balance and nourish your body. The program includes a multi/vitamin/mineral that is targeted to fat loss and an accelerator to help the body efficiently burn fat and increase metabolism. The program also offers a meal replacement shake the comes in Chocolate or French Vanilla.
There is also Ambrostart for energy and extra dietary fiber that can be added to the regimen. This product contains the Ambrotose plus an Energy Complex and 3 grams of fiber per serving.
An imbalance in the Endocrine System can also cause weight gain and make it very difficult to loose the weight and keep it off. You may want to ask your friend about the endocrine support product, too. This product will help to regulate hormone production.
I am sure that your friend is sincere in sharing this with you. If you are not interested, don't be afraid to tell her no. She is your friend and will respect your decision. Otherwise, if you are serious about losing that weight, the company offers a 100% unconditional money back guarantee. You really have nothing to lose but the weight.
To YOUR Health,
Melanie
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quote:
Originally posted by Smith
If ambrotose helps to boost the immune system, wouldn't it therefore be harmful to a transplanted organ? The only term that I have seen on here that I recognize is the reference to strengthened or enlarged T-cells, which the medication I currently take is designed to suppress. That would seem to be one contraindication, even though the relative I spoke to says there are no known drug interactions with ambrotose. "No known" doesn't mean, however, that there aren't any. Any input would be appreciated.
Smith,
Taking glyconutrients is just like eating food. Did you ever worry when you ate an apple or a carrot?
These nutrients may actually enhance the the immuno-suppressant drugs and decrease the chances of organ failure and rejection. There are pharmaceutical companies developing these kinds of drugs with carbohydrates attached to enhance their performance. However, the drugs will still have toxicity levels and side effects. Plus, these drugs are in the beginning stages of development. It takes nearly 15 years of clinical research before the FDA will even approve them.
Pleae visit www.glycostory.com and click on stories. Under category, click on Transplants. There are two testimonials there by REAL people and their experiences with glyconutrients.
Take Care,
Melanie
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Thank you for the information. I have spoken to my friend and decided on taking some of the products available. I will keep you informed on how they have worked for me!
-
quote:
Originally posted by Kittycat
Dear Falariel,
I am sorry to hear of your difficulties with glyconutrition.
I can relate to your frustration and have had my own to deal with off and on.
When I first learned of glyconutrients I was thrilled at the science and results.
I rushed to help a family member with astrocytoma grade 3 brain cancer and a friend with GBM grade four brain cancer at the same time.
While trying to save their lives with this technology (at my own expense, time and money)
I went through a lot of ups and downs, both emotionally and financially.
The end result was they both lost their battle, however they both had more time with their families and had a peaceful death. I believe this was a direct result of them using glyconutrition.
At that same time I was also aware of a friend with TBI, (traumatic brain injury) and though he was in a vegetated state, he was starting to show rapid signs of improvement after the family added glyconutrition to his diet.
His progress in a nutshell was coming from a vegetated state, to now talking in complex terms, eating every thing instead of being tube fed, having control of his body, and he is now starting to be trained to walk again. A recent brain scan confirmed new brain tissue development.
As you can imagine, (since I was going through all of this at the same time) this was more than I could sort through.
While I was deeply grieved at losing my loved ones at the same time I was rejoicing at the recovery in progress with this young man.
I almost gave up hope that glyconutrition could help anyone. I am glad that I didn't and so are many others. Though not all will get the miracle they may be looking for, I believe all can benefit to one degree or another. I would be happy to talk more about this if you want to.
I believe (through personal results) that you can increase absorption through various avenues.
My own family has benefited while using glyconutrition and have either recovered partially or fully from:
Severe seasonal and bee sting allergies, gout, nerve damage, herpes, shingles, chronic fatigue, and other various health issues.
If I can help please free to email me God bless, KC
His grace is sufficient and His strength is made perfect in my weakness
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In regards to the use of glyconutrients in conjunction with immunosuppressive drugs and organ transplantation...There is NO scientific data to support it. There are only testimonies by individuals who have underwent organ transplantation and have added glyconutrients to their diet. These individuals achieved extraordinary results. It should be noted that these individuals were in close contact with their physicians after adding glyconutrients.
If you have received an organ transplant and wish to use glyconutrients, you should consult with your physician.
Be Well,
Melanie
-
quote:
Originally posted by vibranthealth767
In regards to the use of glyconutrients in conjunction with immunosuppressive drugs and organ transplantation...There is NO scientific data to support it. There are only testimonies by individuals who have underwent organ transplantation and have added glyconutrients to their diet. These individuals achieved extraordinary results. It should be noted that these individuals were in close contact with their physicians after adding glyconutrients.
If you have received an organ transplant and wish to use glyconutrients, you should consult with your physician.
Be Well,
Melanie
Yours is a wise and thoughtful approach to the subject, Melanie. Thomas (grace2succeed) would do well to learn from your more realistic and humble attitude, in my estimation.
Greg
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I've been taking the glyconutrients for a while.. their miracle work doesn't seem to actually be there. Though Duane has raised an interesting thought I had a while back about taking the glyconutrients with probiotics. Would this have a better effect than the probiotics or glyconutrients alone?
I'm figuring it would since the bacteria in the probiotics would use and break down the glyconutrients. Though that's assuming the probiotics are live and made it through the stomach which is very slim from what I've read unless they are enteric coated and kept cold.
Any ideas?
-
"where is all the money going?????
http://www.mannarelief.org/icws217w3/index.cfm?ID=819B0DC7-37C8-458B-B5C05675B48DD815
Program Overview
MannaMissions assists in delivering nutritional supplements to orphans on every continent. With your help, we've already reached 42,000 orphans in 300 orphanages in 72 countries.
What do we do?
When we visit the orphanages we will be delivering products and educating the caretakers. The team will have opportunities to play with the children, pass out toys, share Bible stories, and perform skits and puppet songs. We may help paint, or with assist in a construction project, or help with administration in an office; any practical ways we can bless the missionaries that we go to serve. Most definitely we will be giving out lots of hugs and smiles!
Eligibility
Anyone 16 years and older is eligible to join us on a MannaMissions trip. Children younger than 16 years of age have joined our teams, but only when a parent is accompanying them.
Funding
Each individual is responsible to raise their own funding for the trips. Financial sponsors can come from friends, family, church, local businesses, charities or fundraising events. Donations may be made by check, credit card or electronic bank withdrawal. Donations are tax deductible. Donors in US and Canada (see special instructions to make cheques payable to MannaRelief/ FLOCS) will receive a tax donation receipt. All funds should have participant’s name and “missions” on donations in order for the funds to be designated for their trip.
Application for Missions Trips are available in the following formats:
Download an Application
Call our office (817.557.8700)
If God has planted a seed in your heart to go on a missions trip, pray about joining us! If it is God’s timing, He will provide.
Here is a testimony of God’s provision. Going to Africa seems so surreal for someone who has never been out of the country but, I knew God was telling me to go. I had less than six weeks to get this huge project of raising $2500, getting my passport and getting my shots. I have four little girls and a husband on disability, so I knew I needed help. I was able to raise half of the money from a good friend, but I still needed $1,250. I sent out my support letters and prayed over the letter itself, and each person that was going to receive my letter. The next day, five people contacted me and said they wanted to support me financially. And the day after that, a couple approached me and said they are going to pay for the rest of my trip! Still today, someone contacted me and said they would like to support me as well, and I didn’t even send them a letter! Praise God!
--- Rebecca
"Undeniable Destiny" by Linda Castor (wife of Mannatech CEO, Sam Castor)
It's a story of the undeniable way God will use ordinary people to impact the world. It's a story of the undeniable consequence that follows disobedience to God's will."
On a continent where mothers are literally fighting to save the limbs and the lives of their children from machetes and their babies from the ravages of HIV/AIDS, I find it incredulous that Mannatech would spend "sponsors" time and money on bibles and bottles filled with suger water for babies who are "malnourished" in countries that could first use food and perhaps even condoms to help them reduce the orphan population in those countries. But whatever...apparently prayer puts food on the tables of African orphans and Mannatech will be there to supplement the meal with bible stories and bottles of sugar..yippee! We're all saved!
So, my advice is, forget about food for orphans....and by all means, spend your money on the Texas Mannatechies...you look great!
-
I've been taking the glyconutrients for a while.. their miracle work doesn't seem to actually be there. Though Duane has raised an interesting thought I had a while back about taking the glyconutrients with probiotics. Would this have a better effect than the probiotics or glyconutrients alone?
I'm figuring it would since the bacteria in the probiotics would use and break down the glyconutrients. Though that's assuming the probiotics are live and made it through the stomach which is very slim from what I've read unless they are enteric coated and kept cold.
Any ideas?
-
"where is all the money going?????
http://www.mannarelief.org/icws217w3/index.cfm?ID=819B0DC7-37C8-458B-B5C05675B48DD815
Program Overview
MannaMissions assists in delivering nutritional supplements to orphans on every continent. With your help, we've already reached 42,000 orphans in 300 orphanages in 72 countries.
What do we do?
When we visit the orphanages we will be delivering products and educating the caretakers. The team will have opportunities to play with the children, pass out toys, share Bible stories, and perform skits and puppet songs. We may help paint, or with assist in a construction project, or help with administration in an office; any practical ways we can bless the missionaries that we go to serve. Most definitely we will be giving out lots of hugs and smiles!
Eligibility
Anyone 16 years and older is eligible to join us on a MannaMissions trip. Children younger than 16 years of age have joined our teams, but only when a parent is accompanying them.
Funding
Each individual is responsible to raise their own funding for the trips. Financial sponsors can come from friends, family, church, local businesses, charities or fundraising events. Donations may be made by check, credit card or electronic bank withdrawal. Donations are tax deductible. Donors in US and Canada (see special instructions to make cheques payable to MannaRelief/ FLOCS) will receive a tax donation receipt. All funds should have participant’s name and “missions” on donations in order for the funds to be designated for their trip.
Application for Missions Trips are available in the following formats:
Download an Application
Call our office (817.557.8700)
If God has planted a seed in your heart to go on a missions trip, pray about joining us! If it is God’s timing, He will provide.
Here is a testimony of God’s provision. Going to Africa seems so surreal for someone who has never been out of the country but, I knew God was telling me to go. I had less than six weeks to get this huge project of raising $2500, getting my passport and getting my shots. I have four little girls and a husband on disability, so I knew I needed help. I was able to raise half of the money from a good friend, but I still needed $1,250. I sent out my support letters and prayed over the letter itself, and each person that was going to receive my letter. The next day, five people contacted me and said they wanted to support me financially. And the day after that, a couple approached me and said they are going to pay for the rest of my trip! Still today, someone contacted me and said they would like to support me as well, and I didn’t even send them a letter! Praise God!
--- Rebecca
"Undeniable Destiny" by Linda Castor (wife of Mannatech CEO, Sam Castor)
It's a story of the undeniable way God will use ordinary people to impact the world. It's a story of the undeniable consequence that follows disobedience to God's will."
On a continent where mothers are literally fighting to save the limbs and the lives of their children from machetes and their babies from the ravages of HIV/AIDS, I find it incredulous that Mannatech would spend "sponsors" time and money on bibles and bottles filled with suger water for babies who are "malnourished" in countries that could first use food and perhaps even condoms to help them reduce the orphan population in those countries. But whatever...apparently prayer puts food on the tables of African orphans and Mannatech will be there to supplement the meal with bible stories and bottles of sugar..yippee! We're all saved!
So, my advice is, forget about food for orphans....and by all means, spend your money on the Texas Mannatechies...you look great!
-
According to the site statistics, this is the most widely read thread. So, I thought i would pop over to take a look. Very interesting and I can see there has been some drama here too.
~~~I can't think of a signature~~~
-
Ok I'm new here... I was up until 5:30am the other night reading this thread right through, after watching the Mannatech DVD about glyconutrition.
I just have to say THANK YOU so much to Duane!!!!!!! Your insights have been incredibly helpful, mostly due I would say, to your not receiving any remuneration from the company.
And now a question for you: Whilst you still agree that the glyconutrients work, what I have gathered is that they supposedly work by stimulating the immune system, by making it think there may be disease cells in the digestive system, when it realises they are not diseased, it can then use this heightened state to go find and fight other areas that are really diseased that it may have been overlooking.
If I have this wrong then please correct me.
As such I'm not sure if there would be benefit for my Dad and I, who both have Auto-Immune problems.
My Dad has Rheumatoid Arthritis - which is basically where the immune system goes psycho and fights healthy cells. In this case stimulating the immune system, it seems to me, would only make the problem worse. Just as taking glucosamine does, as it helps with the repair of certain tissues, which then give the rouge immune system more healthy cells to feed off.
We are greatly looking forward to where this technology may lead, if they are able to narrow down how to improve the cell - cell communication for shutting down the immune system once it has complete its real work, as that seems to be where the issue is for this disease.
My own auto-immune problem is an Antiphospholipid Antibody Syndrome, where my immune system is creating antibodies to attack cells that form part of the blood coagulation chain, which in turn is making my blood clot too easily.
I am nervous about taking something that will incite my immune system to fight, as it may just fight the wrong cells, and this may then alter the effectiveness of my Warfarin dose.
I would love any input/insight you may have Duane, feel free to set me straight if I'm off base.
I would also love input from any others who have a scientific viewpoint on any of the issues I have raised, as opposed people who are Mannatech robots and quote only the Mannatech speal and case stories.
Much appreciated,
Desiree
~~ Maintain a roll of damp toilet paper for your visitors, leaving them to ponder whether it fell into the toilet... ~~
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I just ran into a "doctor" who initially came off as this nice guy who just wanted to talk to me about brain chemistry. My degree is in psychology with an emphasis in neurochemistry of the brain, so I was fascinated with what this man was telling me.
I watched the videos with interest, and the case studies tug at your heart strings. Well of course, being me, I liked what I was hearing...but when he got to the "becoming a sales associate so that I could buy the product factory direct" I balked. I have never liked multi level marking; always felt it was a scam.
I did a Google search for glyconutrients and found this site. I wanted to thank everyone for sharing their knowledge. A special thank you goes out to Duane.
Duane, thank you for the "make it yourself recipe" -- that is a great idea. Why buy it when I can make it myself? I have enjoyed reading all of your other posts as well.
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I am glad that my previous posts were helpful.
You are partially right about the glyconutrients and the immune system, but it is actually a little more complicated than that, and actually is working by several mechanism. However, there is something important about the immune system, allergies and autoimmune syndromes that you need to understand.
A normally functioning mature immune system does not "over-react" and it does not attack itself (auto-immune). It is when your immune system is not functioning normally that it mistakenly attacks the various tissue in your body, or hyper-reacts to benign environmental stimuli (allergies). You are correct that if you increase the "activity" of a dysfunctional immune response, your symptoms would get worse. However, this is not the same as "Stimulating your immune system" with glyconutrients (or various other nutrients).
For example, if you raise mice with zero bacteria in their colon, they have a limited immune system, and are more likely to develop allergies and sicknesses. In other words, without certain common types of environmental stimulation (in this case normal bacteria in the intestines) immune system doesn't learn to regulate itself correctly. If you kill the bacteria in rats, you increase their preponderance to develop respiratory allergies. The type and amount of bacteria in our intestines have a major influence in the "maturity" of our immune system. They are also finding that certain types of "fiber" also stimulates receptors in our intestine that stimulate "maturity" of the immune system, not just making it more active, but more efficient. (look up articles on the "hygiene hypothesis" for more background in this area and related topics).
Multiple studies are being done right now on the ability of improving symptoms of immune dysfunctional syndromes (allergies, RA, etc) by improving the number and type of good bacteria in the gut. For example:
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Scand J Rheumatol. 2003;32(4):211-5.
Effects of probiotic therapy on the activity and activation of mild rheumatoid arthritis--a pilot study.
Hatakka K, Martio J, Korpela M, Herranen M, Poussa T, Laasanen T, Saxelin M, Vapaatalo H, Moilanen E, Korpela R.
Rheumatism Foundation Hospital, Heinola.
OBJECTIVE: To study the effects of Lactobacillus rhamnosus GG (LGG) on rheumatoid arthritis (RA). METHODS: Twenty-one RA patients were randomised to receive 2 capsules of LGG or a placebo twice daily in double-blind fashion for 12 months. Arthritis activity was evaluated by clinical examination, HAQ index, and laboratory tests (e.g. ESR, CRP, pro- and anti-inflammatory cytokines). RESULTS: There were no statistical differences in the clinical parameters, biochemical variables and HAQ index between the study groups over the intervention period. The mean number of tender and swollen joints decreased from 8.3 to 4.6 in the Lactobacillus group and from 5.5 to 4.8 in the placebo group (p = 0.41). According to the global assessment the RA activity was reduced in 71% (LGG group) vs. 30% (controls) (p = 0.15). Serum IL-1 beta increased slightly in the LGG group (p = 0.07), but no differences were seen in IL-6, TNF-alpha, MPO, IL-10 or 1L-12. CONCLUSIONS: Although there were no statistical significant differences in the activity of RA, more subjects in the LGG group reported subjective well being. More studies on the effects of probiotic bacteria in RA are needed.
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Recognize that this study use a "Probiotic" (a orally taken bacteria to improve the number of bacteria in the colon). Probiotics are beneficial to an extent, but they are limited because many of the bacteria don't make it though the stomach and small intestine, and they have to compete with the billions of bacteria that already live in your colon. "PREBIOTICS" however are long chains of non-digestible sugars that you cannot digest so they pass into the large intestine where they are eaten by certain bacteria in your colon. The good news is that the GOOD bacteria - bifidus, lactobacillus - that stimulate normal immune function thrive on these substances, while many of the BAD or opportunistic bacteria (e.coli, klebsiella, etc) either cannot use these substances, or only like them a little bit. In one study just taking Inulin (a long chain of mostly fructose) bifidus bacteria went from 20% of the total bacteria to 60% of the total bacteria in the colon in just 2 weeks. That is much higher levels than a person could attain just taking bifidus pills alone.
There are a few studies that show that different combinations of probiotics, made of different sugars, may have additive effects than taking them separately. Also, there are benefits to taking probiotics and prebiotics together. This is called a "Synbiotic" (Google that term and see what you get). This is also why Mannatech has a probiotic supplement they recommend to enhance the benefits of their glyconutrients, (though it is also overpriced for something you can get much cheaper at a good health food store.)
There are several medical articles on this topic but you can find some detailed recent information at:
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/73/2/444S?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&author1=salminen&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT
(American Journal of Clinical Nutrition's 2001 article on Probiotics and Immunity).
or:
http://gut.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/54/3/317
(Microbes, immunoregulation, and the gut. Gut. 2005 Mar;54(3):317-20. Review.)
Your problem, as well as your father's problem is that you both have immune systems that lack the normal regulation. Nutritional substances that improve activity of your immune system, actually improve the regulation and efficiency of your immune system. When your immune system is fully mature and functioning, it doesn't attack itself.
Other factors that are being found to have benefits in this area are "essential fatty acids" (e.g. Essential fatty acids in health and disease. J Assoc Physicians India. 1999 Sep;47(9):906-11. Review.) and also thymus extract (such as Thymulin by Enzymatic Therapy) because of the importance of T-cells in immune self-recognition.
More research is being done in all of these areas, but I have not found any studies that would suggest any patients with auto-immune diseases or allergies got worse with pro or prebiotics. With the number of studies that have been done, that is significant.
Recognize however that if you increase the bifidus and lactobacillus in your colon, you will kill off many other bacteria such as clostridium, klebiella, e.coli, etc. These "bad" bacteria contain something called an "endotoxin" in their cell well. When the bacteria dies, this endotoxin is a becomes a free poison and can effect your liver, intestines, and overall health. This is what is meant by the "detoxyfying" reaction that some people experience. Those who have more "bad" bacteria in their intestines will have a more severe reaction. In which case you just need to add probiotics/glyconutrients (prebiotics) in less amounts so that the growth of the good bacteria and the dying off of bad bacteria is slower and not so dramatic.
I know this was a little detailed, but I tried to simplify much of it. Let me know if that helps understand a little better.
Duane
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loweduane, you gave a formula for Ambrotose, my son has brain injury and someone told me about Mannatech's Ambrotose and so I got some but they are having him use the whole 150 grams in a month so to save some money I need to try and put it together myself. Did you get those percentages off the patent or is it your best guess as to the formula?
Seeking
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Pilotlight has a good home made stuff on Curezone.com along with trapper. You might down load the Ambrotose. It has all kinds of jewels in it to makle your own.
With such a serious problem with your son you might get your doctor to look up the Mannatech products in his PDR.
q
Because I too suffered for years with several major problems and had brain damage(.nerve condition and a minor form of Epilepsy) I found relief in a major way after 2-3 years. Because of financial problems I was not always able to keep up the dosages. I used their Immno Start and Plus big time along with that great 'bug juice' Ambrotose.
Also their is a Fisher Institute where a Dr. McDaniels works. He is the man who found that with glyco suppliments his stuff created stem cells. Look him up because the Institute helps pay for Ambrotose I have been told.
Take care and please let us know how things are going!
Your servant, Doc.
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Thank you so much Duane! Yes that was very helpful and I understand it. I will look into those links and check it all out.
Not sure if I will give it a try as yet, but if I do and get any results I'll post again and let everyone know.
Desiree
~~ Maintain a roll of damp toilet paper for your visitors, leaving them to ponder whether it fell into the toilet... ~~
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http://www.healingcancernaturally.com/glyconutrients-food-sources.html
This Ambrotose stuff is expensive with a capital E. However, you don't have to buy this stuff to get all your essential glyconutrients. The above link is to a webpage that lists each glyconutrient and all the foods that contain the most of each glyconutrient. As long as you eat these foods, you'll do fine.
Incidentally, several foods that contain some of these glyconutrients are not on any western menu. For example, seaweed, shiitake mushrooms, shark cartilage (shark fin soup), and bovine cartilage (beef tendon/carrtilage soup), etc. Maybe, that's why the life expectancy of Asian-Americans and wealthy Japanese is 90-100 years old while the life expectancy of the average American is 70-80 years old. None of this stuff is on any American's dinner plate. Therefore, to be healthier, eat Asian food (the real deal, not the cheapo buffet crap they serve in restaurants) or take the Ambrotose.
Except for the shark fins (endangered species?), I eat everything else on this list. I only have to hurt my wallet for the Ambrotose when I did not have time to make the beef cartilage/tendon soup to drink that day. I drink a soup and eat a special jam I made that contains all 8 essential sugars. I also grow my own aloe vera.
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quote:
Originally posted by drjoker69
Incidentally, several foods that contain some of these glyconutrients are not on any western menu. For example, seaweed, shiitake mushrooms, shark cartilage (shark fin soup), and bovine cartilage (beef tendon/carrtilage soup), etc. Maybe, that's why the life expectancy of Asian-Americans and wealthy Japanese is 90-100 years old while the life expectancy of the average American is 70-80 years old.
That's a possibility, but other factors may be more important. Things like genetics, accessibility to health care, a tradition of caring for the elderly and a diet lower in animal fat come to mind. And who knows exactly what this specific group of people is eating?
quote:
None of this stuff is on any American's dinner plate. Therefore, to be healthier, eat Asian food (the real deal, not the cheapo buffet crap they serve in restaurants) or take the Ambrotose.
No offense, but I think you are jumping to conclusions with this statement. According to the statistics on this web page (http://www.arthurhu.com/index/lifeexpe.htm) Mormons (86 years, average) live almost as long as Asian Americans (92 years, average). Do you think it's because they are eating Asian food as well? Is there any evidence that they are consuming foods rich in "glyconutrients"? I believe the answer as to why certain ethnic groups tend to live longer than others is more complex than the origin of their cuisine and amount of "glyconutrients" in their diet.
Greg
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Hi Everyone.
I just found this site today and it's been really interesting reading all the posts and the discussion regarding Glyconutrients.
I basically have a question for Duane or anyone else who has CREDIBLE proof that it is OK to take Glyconutrients if one has Autoimmune Disease?
I presonally have Hashimotos Thyroditis but am very carefull about taking Immune Supplementing products. I'm doing a lot of research and it is such a complicated and not completely understood area that it's hard to understand what is GOOD or BAD to take as supplements.
So if you have REAL info, please share, I would love to hear from you guys.
Health and Happiness to All!
Maryam
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quote:
Originally posted by artvandyck
I am a new poster to this forum. I have been busy today reading all the discussion re: glconutrients etc. My wife and i have been using Mannatech products for approximately 1 month. I use Ambrotose plus some of the other recommended products, my wife has been using only the Ambrotose. My wife suffers from cluster migraines, most of which are triggered by various food allergies but can also be triggered by perfumes, stress, cigarette smoke, even changes in air pressure. For many months now she has been taking therapeutic doses of quercetin and other similar products on the advice of her naturopath doctor in order to heal what is presumed to be a pretty compromised digestive system and hence a defective immune system. We are desperate to find a solution to the migraines. Anyone who has ever had these or watched a loved one in agony during an episode will understand the desperation. So Ambrotose is the latest attempt. After one month she is stopping the use of Ambrotose. In the last few weeks she has had a record number of migraines and the only reason we can come up with is the use of Ambrotose. We don't know what it is about the product that may be causing this but would be interested to hear from anyone out there who may have had similar experiences. Also if Duane of some of the other more thoughtful posters might have some insight as to why that would be greatly appreciated. We will continue to search for something that will give her immune system and digestive system a healing boost without making her sick like the Ambrotose has. Maybe we'll try the Limu Moui drink next.
Art
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quote:
Originally posted by artvandyck
I am a new poster to this forum. I have been busy today reading all the discussion re: glconutrients etc. My wife and i have been using Mannatech products for approximately 1 month. I use Ambrotose plus some of the other recommended products, my wife has been using only the Ambrotose. My wife suffers from cluster migraines, most of which are triggered by various food allergies but can also be triggered by perfumes, stress, cigarette smoke, even changes in air pressure. For many months now she has been taking therapeutic doses of quercetin and other similar products on the advice of her naturopath doctor in order to heal what is presumed to be a pretty compromised digestive system and hence a defective immune system. We are desperate to find a solution to the migraines. Anyone who has ever had these or watched a loved one in agony during an episode will understand the desperation. So Ambrotose is the latest attempt. After one month she is stopping the use of Ambrotose. In the last few weeks she has had a record number of migraines and the only reason we can come up with is the use of Ambrotose. We don't know what it is about the product that may be causing this but would be interested to hear from anyone out there who may have had similar experiences. Also if Duane of some of the other more thoughtful posters might have some insight as to why that would be greatly appreciated. We will continue to search for something that will give her immune system and digestive system a healing boost without making her sick like the Ambrotose has. Maybe we'll try the Limu Moui drink next.
Art
My husband and I had migranes for years. We had a mold problem at our work. We eliminated ALL foods in our diet containing MSG and abated the mold problem. If I sneak a dorito I get a headache. MSG is everywhere. Be dilligent in removing it. Maybe the sugars react like the glutamate in your system. (?)
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quote:
Originally posted by artvandyck
I am a new poster to this forum. I have been busy today reading all the discussion re: glconutrients etc. My wife and i have been using Mannatech products for approximately 1 month. I use Ambrotose plus some of the other recommended products, my wife has been using only the Ambrotose. My wife suffers from cluster migraines, most of which are triggered by various food allergies but can also be triggered by perfumes, stress, cigarette smoke, even changes in air pressure. For many months now she has been taking therapeutic doses of quercetin and other similar products on the advice of her naturopath doctor in order to heal what is presumed to be a pretty compromised digestive system and hence a defective immune system. We are desperate to find a solution to the migraines. Anyone who has ever had these or watched a loved one in agony during an episode will understand the desperation. So Ambrotose is the latest attempt. After one month she is stopping the use of Ambrotose. In the last few weeks she has had a record number of migraines and the only reason we can come up with is the use of Ambrotose. We don't know what it is about the product that may be causing this but would be interested to hear from anyone out there who may have had similar experiences. Also if Duane of some of the other more thoughtful posters might have some insight as to why that would be greatly appreciated. We will continue to search for something that will give her immune system and digestive system a healing boost without making her sick like the Ambrotose has. Maybe we'll try the Limu Moui drink next.
Art
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quote:
Originally posted by artvandyck
I am a new poster to this forum. I have been busy today reading all the discussion re: glconutrients etc. My wife and i have been using Mannatech products for approximately 1 month. I use Ambrotose plus some of the other recommended products, my wife has been using only the Ambrotose. My wife suffers from cluster migraines, most of which are triggered by various food allergies but can also be triggered by perfumes, stress, cigarette smoke, even changes in air pressure. For many months now she has been taking therapeutic doses of quercetin and other similar products on the advice of her naturopath doctor in order to heal what is presumed to be a pretty compromised digestive system and hence a defective immune system. We are desperate to find a solution to the migraines. Anyone who has ever had these or watched a loved one in agony during an episode will understand the desperation. So Ambrotose is the latest attempt. After one month she is stopping the use of Ambrotose. In the last few weeks she has had a record number of migraines and the only reason we can come up with is the use of Ambrotose. We don't know what it is about the product that may be causing this but would be interested to hear from anyone out there who may have had similar experiences. Also if Duane of some of the other more thoughtful posters might have some insight as to why that would be greatly appreciated. We will continue to search for something that will give her immune system and digestive system a healing boost without making her sick like the Ambrotose has. Maybe we'll try the Limu Moui drink next.
Art
My husband and I had migranes for years. We had a mold problem at our work. We eliminated ALL foods in our diet containing MSG and abated the mold problem. If I sneak a dorito I get a headache. MSG is everywhere. Be dilligent in removing it. Maybe the sugars react like the glutamate in your system. (?)
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quote:
Originally posted by artvandyck
I am a new poster to this forum. I have been busy today reading all the discussion re: glconutrients etc. My wife and i have been using Mannatech products for approximately 1 month. I use Ambrotose plus some of the other recommended products, my wife has been using only the Ambrotose. My wife suffers from cluster migraines, most of which are triggered by various food allergies but can also be triggered by perfumes, stress, cigarette smoke, even changes in air pressure. For many months now she has been taking therapeutic doses of quercetin and other similar products on the advice of her naturopath doctor in order to heal what is presumed to be a pretty compromised digestive system and hence a defective immune system. We are desperate to find a solution to the migraines. Anyone who has ever had these or watched a loved one in agony during an episode will understand the desperation. So Ambrotose is the latest attempt. After one month she is stopping the use of Ambrotose. In the last few weeks she has had a record number of migraines and the only reason we can come up with is the use of Ambrotose. We don't know what it is about the product that may be causing this but would be interested to hear from anyone out there who may have had similar experiences. Also if Duane of some of the other more thoughtful posters might have some insight as to why that would be greatly appreciated. We will continue to search for something that will give her immune system and digestive system a healing boost without making her sick like the Ambrotose has. Maybe we'll try the Limu Moui drink next.
Art
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quote:
Originally posted by artvandyck
I am a new poster to this forum. I have been busy today reading all the discussion re: glconutrients etc. My wife and i have been using Mannatech products for approximately 1 month. I use Ambrotose plus some of the other recommended products, my wife has been using only the Ambrotose. My wife suffers from cluster migraines, most of which are triggered by various food allergies but can also be triggered by perfumes, stress, cigarette smoke, even changes in air pressure. For many months now she has been taking therapeutic doses of quercetin and other similar products on the advice of her naturopath doctor in order to heal what is presumed to be a pretty compromised digestive system and hence a defective immune system. We are desperate to find a solution to the migraines. Anyone who has ever had these or watched a loved one in agony during an episode will understand the desperation. So Ambrotose is the latest attempt. After one month she is stopping the use of Ambrotose. In the last few weeks she has had a record number of migraines and the only reason we can come up with is the use of Ambrotose. We don't know what it is about the product that may be causing this but would be interested to hear from anyone out there who may have had similar experiences. Also if Duane of some of the other more thoughtful posters might have some insight as to why that would be greatly appreciated. We will continue to search for something that will give her immune system and digestive system a healing boost without making her sick like the Ambrotose has. Maybe we'll try the Limu Moui drink next.
Art
My husband and I had migranes for years. We had a mold problem at our work. We eliminated ALL foods in our diet containing MSG and abated the mold problem. If I sneak a dorito I get a headache. MSG is everywhere. Be dilligent in removing it. Maybe the sugars react like the glutamate in your system. (?)
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I'm a first time poster to this forum, and appreciate all I have read regarding glyconutrients. I am going to be starting my 10 year-old daughter, Megan, on a regime of these products, and will keep you all posted of her progress (or lack thereof). Megan has multiple health issues, including very mild partial-focal seizures that occur aprx. once a week. Her neurologist wants to start her on Trileptal, but for some reason, my gut is screaming "NO!" I have learned to listen to my gut when it comes to Megan, so in researching possible alternatives, I came up with glyconutrients. I'm not anti traditional medicine at all, please understand this. And I will definitely start the Trileptal if there is no improvement on the glyconutrients.
What can I do to make this as scientific as possible? My desire, by posting, is that somehow we will ALL learn from this experiment. Suggestions?
BTW, I purchased these products directly from the company; not a salesperson. I have NO financial stake in this company at all, nor do I want one.
Best to everybody,
Kathy S.
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quote:
Originally posted by nevusmom
I'm a first time poster to this forum, and appreciate all I have read regarding glyconutrients. I am going to be starting my 10 year-old daughter, Megan, on a regime of these products, and will keep you all posted of her progress (or lack thereof). Megan has multiple health issues, including very mild partial-focal seizures that occur aprx. once a week. Her neurologist wants to start her on Trileptal, but for some reason, my gut is screaming "NO!" I have learned to listen to my gut when it comes to Megan, so in researching possible alternatives, I came up with glyconutrients. I'm not anti traditional medicine at all, please understand this. And I will definitely start the Trileptal if there is no improvement on the glyconutrients.
What can I do to make this as scientific as possible? My desire, by posting, is that somehow we will ALL learn from this experiment. Suggestions?
BTW, I purchased these products directly from the company; not a salesperson. I have NO financial stake in this company at all, nor do I want one.
Best to everybody,
Kathy S.
I don't know what you can do to make your experience in trying "glyconutrients" on your daughter more "scientific". You are doing your own clinical trial as a party of one. The most useful scientific studies use a control group. Whether "glyconutrients" seem to help with her medical problems or not, yours will be another "testimonial" should you decide to post about it. However, I'd be curious to hear either way.
Greg Smith
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HI, first i would like to say that my family, and friends who have tried glyco's have had fantastic results. But.... a few of us, had some return of symptoms after the company changed from advanced ambrotose to the "New and Improved" adv. ambrotose. then we went on the first "ambrotose" and did ok, but didnt feel near as good as when they made the 2nd powder, adv. ambrotose. just wondering is anyone has had similar results and if so, what did you do about it since they no longer make the 2nd powder "adv. ambrotose" my dad is 79 yrs old and was feeling like he was 60 again. now that he ran out of reg. adv. ambrotose, he is having a lot of pain again in his back, pain from a 37yr old crushed ankle with a lot of hardware has returned,and he is getting tired again (had gone thru cemo before the start of glycos for CLL) I am going to buy all of the ingredients and make our own, and hopefully that will help. any suggestions are welcome. thanks, Jackie
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OK, so we got a box in the mail today, chock full of products from the glyconutrient company. But NO instructions on how to use them. I'm guessing that my daughter is supposed to take daily doses of at least 4 of the products. Given that she is only ten, we are halving the doses recommended on the back of the products for adults.
We started her on the products yesterday, hoping that they might help control her seizures. Normally Megan has seizures about every 6 days, and they are very mild. She had one this morning.
I'm committed to trying this for about 6 months. However, if the seizures worsen, or become more frequent, we will put her on anticonvulsants.
I know that our story will only be anecdotal. But I want it out there, good or bad. This stuff will either work for Megan, or it won't.
Kathy
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Hey Nevusmom, hang in there. My 8 year old daughter eats the stuff(Glyco Bears and stuff) and is going to put me in the poor house. I use the stuff in my Wellness business with all kind of kids and its great stuff. Like it on my ice cream.
I get my kid to eat the AO because it has not only 16 or more saccharides it but other goodies.
Remember your daughter will go through detox and she will not feel well at times. Agsin the ice cream, favorite greasey burger with lots and lots of water will help. Might also have to cut the dose down intill she starts running on all clyinders again.
Mannatech vitamin B really helps the Ambrotose fire up.
My kid also kept her dying dog alive for many years on the stuff.
Take care, your servant, Doc.
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Hey doc77!
Thanks for your comments. Megan seems to be doing OK, so far. No seizures (that I have witnessed) yet this week.
Your mention of the "poor house" got me to thinking...I was actually able to procure this box of various products for a considerable discount through a program this company has. Your child has to qualify, and Megan did. Does your daughter have any sort of medical condition that could qualify her? It might be worth looking into, especially if you are really sold on these products.
Just so you all know what we are giving Megan every day:
1 glycobear twice a day
1 AO once in the morning (it is in a capsule, so I can't split it)
1 PLUS tablet - half in the morning, half at night
1 scoop of Ambrotose (half in the morning, half at night)
This is half the adult dosage for all these products.
We also got a container of Phyt-Aloe, but I haven't used any of it yet. We got 3 containers of everything else, so I'm not sure that we were even supposed to get this. I need to call the company and ask. I'm sure they will tell me to give it to her. Hmmmm.
Talk to you soon!
Kathy S.
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Hi Jackie A!
Out of curiosity, where does one purchase the ingredients to make the glyco nutrients? Is there an official recipe?
Kathy S.
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Hey doc77!
Thanks for your comments. Megan seems to be doing OK, so far. No seizures (that I have witnessed) yet this week.
Your mention of the "poor house" got me to thinking...I was actually able to procure this box of various products for a considerable discount through a program this company has. Your child has to qualify, and Megan did. Does your daughter have any sort of medical condition that could qualify her? It might be worth looking into, especially if you are really sold on these products.
Just so you all know what we are giving Megan every day:
1 glycobear twice a day
1 AO once in the morning (it is in a capsule, so I can't split it)
1 PLUS tablet - half in the morning, half at night
1 scoop of Ambrotose (half in the morning, half at night)
This is half the adult dosage for all these products.
We also got a container of Phyt-Aloe, but I haven't used any of it yet. We got 3 containers of everything else, so I'm not sure that we were even supposed to get this. I need to call the company and ask. I'm sure they will tell me to give it to her. Hmmmm.
Talk to you soon!
Kathy S.
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Hi Jackie A!
Out of curiosity, where does one purchase the ingredients to make the glyco nutrients? Is there an official recipe?
Kathy S.
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Well - I have been reading this for a few hours now - very interesting - thanks Duane - your insight has been very helpful. What does anyone know about this company - product? http://www.micronutra.com/nutratose.html?kbid=1220
I too would like to try gyco - just not interested in the sales side - or the high prices - but I can't see myself making my own.
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Well - I have been reading this for a few hours now - very interesting - thanks Duane - your insight has been very helpful. What does anyone know about this company - product? http://www.micronutra.com/nutratose.html?kbid=1220
I too would like to try gyco - just not interested in the sales side - or the high prices - but I can't see myself making my own.
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Another Megan update:
We are on day 8 of the glyconutrients. So far, so good. Megan has been having seizures aprx. once every 6 days. Her seizures are considered "partial-focal", and are very mild, lasting maybe 10-15 seconds. Here we are, on day 8, and no seizures yet! The last one she had was the day we started the glyconutrients. Two days ago she looked as though she was getting ready to have a seizure, but then it didn't happen. ?????? Not too sure what that was about....
Other than that, she is her normal happy self, and doesn't appear to be having any negative side-effects from the products.
I'll send another update in a few days. Thanks everybody who contributes to this forum!
Kathy S.
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OK I have just had a my doctor investigate Glyconutrients and suggest Mannatech. I am a big skeptic but I will take a look into anything.
Right now I am more skeptical of modern medicine's relationship with drug companies and the failure of our legal system and the FDA to make drugs safe and effective. My personal belief is that the FDA is bought by the drug companies and our litigious court system has created such a paranoid environment that drug companies couldn't fully disclose all they know about their meds if they wanted to without the legal repercussions. At any rate it is a mess.
On to my personal experience... I have ADHD and GAD. I was prescribed EffexorXR until I couldnt handle the side effects so I tried to slowly wean off. Instead I got every withdrawl effect in the book. Dizziness, confusion, depression, aggressiveness, edema, joint pain, connective tissue pain, electric jolts in the brain and legs, sweating, etc. They dont disclose any of this in the PIs. I was prescribed Cymbalta and my withdrawl symptoms went away immediately. Problem is Cymbalta has worse side effects than Effexor. I gained 25-30lbs in 6 mos PLUS all the bad stuff I had with Effexor. SO now I have had enough and I dont want to take anything anymore. So I sloooooowly got off Cybalta. Taking it slow did nothing but delay the withdrawls. Now I have terrible edema, confusion, dizziness, anger issues, and difficulty focusing on anything for more than a minute, plust I will talk your ear off if you let me. Just look how long this post is.
So the weight gain caused back pain, the edema causes leg pain, and nobody can stand to be around me anymore.
My doctor suggested this Mannatech program even though it is expensive. My problem is with all the bad press this company is getting.
Now here is what I find odd about the complaints... They are only from people who seem to have never participated or they are from people who took them for a few weeks and quit.
I cannot google and find any stories of the person who took these supplements for 6 months or more and are complaining about getting ripped off. I have googled "Glyconutrients did nothing for me" "glyconutrients did not work" and a few variations and cannot find any horror stories. I cannot believe this is a placebo for anybody who tries it. Any google any infomercial and you will find horries galore.
I am going to try these things and give them 8 months to show results. That is unless anybody can show me where I am wrong. BTW, I dont care about the lack of scientific data. I dont care about the claims about how it works being false. If mannatech called the stuff Pixie Dust and it worked and the mechanism was PFM (Pure F'ing Magic) then I wouldnt care so dont bother telling me about the BS. If it helps me then I dont care why.
Why does the drug company get away with not knowing why side effect occur?
Does it work? Who has it not worked for?
As far as making my own, I will try the manatech stuff and piss away $800 and then try to make my own if I feel like it.
Well thats my story. Feel free to reply with your thoughts
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since no one seems to be supporting 'Duane', i'd like to step in on his behalf. i don't find his posts to be rude at all. i appreciate his desire to tell the truth and support it with calm, factual arguments. whereas you and 'mannamom' seem to be criticizing him on an emotional basis, suggesting you have 'proof' without offering any. this doesn't help anyone seeking to know the truth about glyconutrients.
it seems perfectly logical to me that our bodies would be able to synthesize the nutrients we require from foods. i'm very skeptical of anyone trying to make money by forcing us to be dependent on unnatural sources of 'health', such as pills. i find this especially distasteful when it is promoted with religious propaganda. i even came across a website in which an ordained minister, supposedly a beacon of Christian enlightenment, promoting meds to the gullible faithful. i think that only Americans could be blind to the fact that quoting the Bible in order to sell a product is the height of poor taste (not to mention sacrilege!!).
let's face it, with usernames like "mannamom" and "glycomom" you give "Duane" every reason to accuse you of being proponents of the industry.
the best thing for children is good fresh food, supplemented with lots of love, and not these dubious products.
quote:
Originally posted by mannamom
Duane...
I must side with Cathy. you have been nothing short of rude! Lets hear about your profession. I bet you feel you provide a good service, well, I bet someone out there would easily rip it apart because they feel they are superior. You sit there and cut down our PROVEN science and docs....who are you????
Rene
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Hi Anagram!
I, too, appreciated Duane's comments, but I also read, with interest, what others had to say. I agree that most of us should be able to synthesize necessary sugars in our bodies. But I also suspect that there are probably many people who, for whatever reason, cannot. I think it may be possible that in those cases, gylconutrients may be of tremendous benefit. For others, it probably just creates very expensive urine.
I truly believe that in coming years, our diets will become very individualized. I found out, just a couple of years ago, that my horrible digestive problems were not, as several doctors suggested, related to Irritable Bowl Syndrome, but were actually a manifestation of "Celiac Disease", which is an allergy to gluten in wheat, barley, and rye. All it took to cure me of my problems was a simple diet change! The years of meds didn't work; the diet did. I'm a new woman! My point is, most people can eat wheat with no problem. I can't.
On the seizure front, Megan still has yet to have one since we started the glycos. It is too soon to tell, really. I'll feel more comfortable giving some credit to the glycos if she remains seizure-free 2 months into the program.
Kathy S.
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Dear Nervusmom, glad to here your child is doing well on glycos. What I might suggest to expedite the matter is leave a bottle of Glyco Bears or other around so he can eat his fill at whim. With a watch full eye you might find the child will improve even more. If his friends come over hid them cause they will devour them as candy.
In my wellness business I travel alot and one day I was hit big time with the flu( We have real bad flu bugs in Flordia). I had a new bottle of Glyco or Gummi Bears and decided what a doctor suggested in his findings. So I ate a half a bottle as lunch and within several hours I was feeling much better. Went through the same thing the next day. Now the vitamin C in the bears does raise the skin temp(you actually get hotter which out US Army found the heat kills the bad bacteria). Plus you will poop some what more as the body uses the resources to heal itself. The point is the child might respond even more to a good tasting treat in quest of good health.
In some testing of products it was found that 40 mg of Mannatech's vitamin C was equal to 4,000 mg of other Vitamin C.
Please keep us posted on the progress.
Your Servant, Doc.
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A weekly Megan update:
We started the glycos on Sep. 14th, with the hopes that they would help control her partial-focal seizures, which had been occurring aprx. every 6 days. We are still optimistic! She had a very brief seizure (less than 10 seconds) on Monday (Oct. 2). That was the first one since starting the glycos. Not bad. We are committing to this program for 6 months. We shall see what happens! I am aware that the decrease in her seizure activity could be coincidental. But at least these products aren't harming her (and MAY be helping).
Kathy S.
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loweduane,
thanks for posting the extensive info you provided in this thread. having recently become interested in glyco nutrients myself i find your information and links very usefull. your critical comments about the marketing of some of the commercial brands is most refreshing.
as a health profesional myself , i find it disturbing that there is such an abundance of anecdotal evidence being used in their marketing, and that a pyramid scheme is being used by one of the biggest companies in its selling. i can also affirm to you that your posts in this thread are very level headed and factual, and in no way cross the line of personal attack or any unprofessional behaviour.
posters on forums like this should also be required to openly declare their commercial interrests (in their sig for ex), because some of the posts are being made to deliberatly manipulate the conversation and mislead less aware or less informed readers. that type of viral posting makes it hard for less informed readers to find the right information. worse, many people on these forums are looking for information to help their health or loved ones and are therefore more vulnerable. yet in some of the responses here they are being preyed upon by some very unethical and misleading sales drones who are just after making a few bucks from their misery.
keep your eyes open folks, the world is complex enough without adding additional misleading information.
meanwhile i shall go out tomorrow and purchase some glyconutrients from a a reputable company (not Mannatech obviously). nothing wrong with paying normal commercial rates for a good product that has a normal markup, and i am sure my normal suppliers of nutricional supplements will be able to suggest a few good brands. after that when i learn a bit more about this i might experiment a bit myself with a few different brands that have different content. after that if i decide it works well and want to take it longer term, i might even decide to get the raw ingredients and mix my own magic potion.
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quote:
Originally posted by nevusmom
I'm a first time poster to this forum, and appreciate all I have read regarding glyconutrients. I am going to be starting my 10 year-old daughter, Megan, on a regime of these products, and will keep you all posted of her progress (or lack thereof). Megan has multiple health issues, including very mild partial-focal seizures that occur aprx. once a week. Her neurologist wants to start her on Trileptal, but for some reason, my gut is screaming "NO!" I have learned to listen to my gut when it comes to Megan, so in researching possible alternatives, I came up with glyconutrients. I'm not anti traditional medicine at all, please understand this. And I will definitely start the Trileptal if there is no improvement on the glyconutrients.
What can I do to make this as scientific as possible? My desire, by posting, is that somehow we will ALL learn from this experiment. Suggestions?
BTW, I purchased these products directly from the company; not a salesperson. I have NO financial stake in this company at all, nor do I want one.
Best to everybody,
Kathy S.
hi nevusmom,
you being the original poster of this thread, you shouldnt be overlooked :)
you mention your daughter has a number of different health issues in addition to the partial focal seizures, but there isnt to much specific information about your daughter's other complaints in your post so i have no idea of the broader context. regarding using natural therapies for the partial-focal seizures you might also consider using some good quality fish oil supplement ( this would usually have to be taken as at least 3 grams per day to be effective, since most of us dont eat a significant amout of fish on a dayly basis). there is lots of good information available on its importance for brain devellopment and function, and would be one of the least harmfull and easiest things to add to her diet. it would be the first and single most important nutricional supplement i would look at first if one of my children had this type of problem. please note there are many types of fish oil supplements, and some are better than others. it would take for a few months to see if it has a beneficail effect, but you might be able to take it at the same as the glyconutirents just started on so you dont waste more time.
do be aware that it is important that your daughter continue to be monitored by the neurologist, and it is best to be honest with him/her about the nutricional supplements you are trying. i presume they will already have done the normal EEG's and brain scans etc., and have currently decided to just treat her symptoms because they have excluded any current major underlying pathology. also understand that the use of anti seizure medication is not just to reduce the symptoms (the seizures), but also because frequent or repeated seizures can sometimes gradually increase injury to the brain, or have an increased risk of accidents and falls etc..
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Thanks Galen!
I will look into fish oil supplements. If you have a recommendation, I would appreciate the information!
Megan was born with a really rare birth defect (1-500,000) called a "giant congenital nevus". It is a dark brown birthmark covering aprx. 70 percent of her body. In addition, she has hundreds of smaller "satellite" nevi covering her remaining skin. About 30 percent of children born with this have spots on their brain, or within the central nervous system. This condition (neurocutaneous melanosis) is generally benign, but can cause serious neurological complications, primarily seizures and hydrocephalus. The mortality rate among children with neurological symptoms is around 70 percent within a year of the onset of the symptom.
Unrelated to her skin, Megan also has a mitral valve prolapse. It, like the seizures, isn't too bad, as these things go.
Those are the cold, hard facts!
Now the feel-good stuff: my daughter is, in every other way, a normal, rambunctious, precious kid. She has a vocal belt like Ethel Merman! She has above-normal intelligence (of course!), and is currently traveling with her dad (and my husband) to help with fund-raising for Nevus Outreach. There is some GREAT research being done into this, and we are determined to support it.
Thanks for the explanation of the reasons to control the seizures. I had heard that additional damage could be done to the brain. When Megan was a baby (4 months old), we had no choice but to put her on anti-convulsants. Even though her seizures were mild as seizures go, they were increasing in frequency to the point where brain damage was feared. The phenobarbital and tegretol did a great job of controlling them! She had her last seizure at 18 months, and we were able to wean her off the drugs by age 3. She remained seizure-free until last November, when she had one. Then she had another in December, a couple in Jan., and so on, until they leveled out at about one every 6 days. For some weird reason, I just don't want to put her back on the drugs. My gut is screaming, "NO!" And I'm one of those people that has learned to listen to gut feelings. We tried to capture a seizure on a portable EEG which she carried around for 48 hours. What a trooper! But no luck. Her MRI didn't indicate any changes in the spots on her brain. It was suggested that the seizure might be caused by a "pre-puberty hormonal surge" God help us!! At any rate, this is where we are today.
Megan survived her first round of symptomatic neurocutaneous melanosis. We are praying this round is just another blip in her journey. So far, so good! She called me this afternoon from South Carolina just to let me know that there was a POOL in their hotel, and SHE was going SWIMMING. Mark will keep an eye on her, just in case.
Talk to you soon!
Kathy
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Hi Nervusmom,
Had three healthy kid, one might just end up a doctor. Then I had
a girl who was born with a heart defect. She was later hurt in a accident that left her with skull damage that shows under great activity. She then almost died in a swimining accident. Now 8, with much worry later, our 'Glyco Baby' seems to be in perfect health. She is not even a 30/30 baby, with excellent heath except for the fact like yours she is one rambunctious kid. I just caught her and friend in by bottles of glyco supplements. Her father(my daugthers friend) was healed by our' bug juice'(glyco supplements) We have a community program which we give it away to poor people if they can't afford it.
One other thing I was damaged in motorcycing racing and had a mild form of epilepsy. The air force spent many years, dollars and EEG's to solve the problem. I used some precription drugs for years off and on. What is funny is that they could never find the problem intill a civilian doctor found it on a EEG. So don't give up on the doctors or meds. There are some fine ones out there.
Another gem, I too was born with a mitral valve prolapse which after 2 years of glyco supplementshas seemed to have disappeared, plus I no longer need to take my high blood pressure meds.
I like the idea of the fish oil which I recommand as a health consultant. A man by the name of Banting has some interesting finds in its history along with the Eskimo diet.
Last but not least Mannatech has a web sponsored science web, along with a direct link to other great sites like PUB MED, HON(Health on the NET). It is a peer reviewed by many Md/DO's, PHD's and IOU's and other leading scientist. Our own Dr. Lefkowitz, of the great University of South Flordia(ya Bulls) is on the sites and is very much into the science of glycomics. Site is GLYCOSCIENCE.ORG.
USF is also going to be trying to help a friend who has baby of three with Hypoposphatemic Rickets. She has just started glycos and though she really dislikes food, she loves Gummi Bears.
She is cute as a button and walks like Gary Cooper.
Last but not least your doctor can find the Mannatech products in his bible, the PDR.
Your servant, Doc77.
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nevusmom,
fish oil can be found from many brands, some cheaper, some very expensive. when comparing a few of the products that are available in your area you should be able to find a good product at a reasonable price. the main active ingredient we need from fish oil is omega-3 essential fatty acids (there are other omega fatty acids to, and at times there might be a need to add some of those, but omega-3 is the main one that most of the studies have been done on so far). some of these fatty acids can be sourced from plants etc, but their action is a bit different. for your purpose you need the fish oil source.
it is important to confirm that the source of the fish oil is from wild fish, not farmed fish.. the oils extracted from farmed fish do not have the same quality or biochemical makup as those normally found in "real fish". most of the good reputable companies that manufacture fish oil supplements will use the good quality oil from the correctly sourced fish, so dont be to concerned, but it is the reason to be carefull with the very cheap end of the market in this product. try also to check that the vit A content is not to high (because your daughter is still growing, and vit A in high dosages can be toxic).
second thing to look for is the amount of "equiv. EPA and DHA" per 1000 mg of fish oil capsul. those numbers will give you an idea about the general quality of the oil. their degree of content in the fish oil gives an indication of the main active ingredients. some of the best products will have someting like .....
total Omega-3 Marine Triglycerides = 500mg
equiv . EPA ( eicosapentaenoic acid ) = 300mg
equiv. DHA ( docosahexaenoic acid) = 200mg
those numbers are for a single 1000 mg fish oil capsul
the usual brand that i choose has a lower content of EPA and DHA, like equiv EPA = 180mg, equiv DHA 120mg. But the brand i personally choose is 30% cheaper per bottle yet has 3x the amount of capsules per bottle compared to the expensive brand above, and is locally made by a company that has a good reputation for quality control. so i just need one extra capsul to get to the desired EPA/DHA levels, and still end up getting about 2x the amount I would get from that more expensive brand. i just describe that logic so you have an idea of how to look for quality at a good price, to get your bang per buck ratio right :) .
considering the age of your daughter, i would aim at 3000 mg fish oil per day ( 3 gms), and you would want to take that over 2 or 3 months before you decide if it is helping or not. (the indication it is helping would be to reduce the frequency and severity of the seizures obviously). a dosage of 1000 mg fish oil per day would be to low to be effective, and some specialists and therapists sometimes recommend up to 6000 mg for teenagers for various medical conditions. you have given more details of your daughters situation, but obviously in a conversation like this i can only just give you general sugestions. be aware nutricional supplements like this just replace nutrients you could/should get from the right diet, the dosage is not at a pharmacological level where it is more likely to have an added risk of potentially toxic side effects. the only reason to take it as a supplement is so you dont have to change your families whole diet to much, because you are trying to get the main active ingredients you would get normally from eating a few 100's gms of real fish per day. you might want to read this on amega 3' to get a broader context of their importance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega-3_fatty_acid
if your daughters current seizures are simply related to a growth phase, then i am fairly confident the fish oil will be a significant help (most of the more recent fish oil research has been done on brain function and neurological and cardiac problems, etc..). the thing to be aware of is that there are a number of other potential reasons for the recent recurrence of her seizures, and it is the reason she is monitored by a neurologist. you can probably find some good information on the fish oil issue by looking at medline (pubmed) and google scholar (scholar.google.com), but i wouldnt delay the start of the supplement to much, because you need to start seeing some improvement in her condition soon, to justify delaying the start of anticonvulsive medication (for the reasons i mentioned earlier).
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Thanks for the fish oil info! Mark and megan are home from their travels, so we are going to find some and start taking it.
On the seizure front: Megan had a very small one (even for her, it was small) on Oct. 13. Sooooo, from the time she started the glyconutrients to now (a month), she has had 2 seizures. Normally, in this time period she would have had anywhere from 4 to 6. So there does appear to be improvement. Yes, it could be coincidental.
We shall see what this next month brings!
best to all,
Kathy S.
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Hi all!
It has been a while since I posted about Megan's progress. It has been...interesting. She had 2 seizures last week, but she was also under the weather and incredibly tired due to the illness keeping her awake. There does seem to be a relationship between how tired Megan is and seizure frequency. At any rate, since I last posted, she has had 3 seizures.
What is really interesting is that on several occassions, she looked like she was heading into a seizure, and then it just stopped. Kind of like almost sneezing? We have upped the amount of ambrotose we are giving her...we were giving her half the adult amount daily, but are now giving her the full dosage. We are keeping the other products at half the adult dosage. My thought is whatever her body doesn't use, it will simply excrete. Any thoughts on this?
Kathy S.
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My daughter has been taking ambatose and glcyo bears for the last two years. In addition, she has been on a diet of no nitrates, white sugar, white flour, casein found in milk and red dye number 40. We found that if she did not have any of these seizure triggers, she would be seizure free. However, we were not able to eliminate her seizures totally, she would still have one about every month or so. We also went to Neurotherapy Center of Dallas and had neurotherapy done. By training her brain waves, we seem to have eliminated or nearly eliminated her seizures. Since we started the program in May, our daughter has had only a slight seizure,( after a soccer game, when she was exhausted, another seizure trigger) during the past 7 months. I think the glyco nutrients helped, but the neurotherapy really helped. A combination of treatments seemed to help. Thank you for all the great information in this site!
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I know very little about these therapys but congratulations on the success thus far, it sounds like a drastic improvement.. I am very happy that your combined treatments have helped! It is nice to here good things like that! Thanks for posting and good wishes for continued success!
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[:)]Thanks Karen. I have more information on seizures and alternatives but did not want to go into detail because this site is for gyclonutrients...I'm a newbie and did not want to violate any rules. Our pediatric neurologist who introduced us to glyconutrients left his practise to go into teaching so I'm looking for assistance from this site on how to use the glyconutrients to continue to support our daughter. Based upon what I've read thus far we'll keep her on a regular dosage. Right now she takes 1 teaspoon twice a day of ambratose; isotonix multivitamin (has probiotic); and 200 carbatrol in AM and 300 at night. If she continues to be seizure free by the summer we will start taking her off the carbatrol then.
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Hi all!
It has been a while since I last posted. Where has time gone? At any rate, we finally had to start Megan on Trileptal to control her seizures. They were starting to occur more and more frequently, even with the upped dosage of the ambrotose. We started her this past Monday on the Trileptal, but will keep giving her the ambrotose until April. Megan's neurologist suggested taking her off the ambrotose at that point to see if it makes any difference or not. If she remains seizure-free on just the Trileptal, we will probably just use it and quit paying for the ambrotose. Ah well. We tried. Another avenue we MIGHT try is the "gluten-free" diet...is there a forum for that?
Kathy S.
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Thank you for the update on your daughter. I'm sorry to hear that her seizures have not been brought under control by taking the "glyconutrients". I'm also not all that surprised. Here's hoping you folks find something that really works for her!
Greg Smith