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Someone asked me:If consciousness is not generated by the physical brain, but instead exists somewhere else
So I posted my response on my blog:http://ahmadsoomro.com/asking-ahmad-1-quantifying-consciousness/
What intelligent reasonable person would suggest that consciousness originates anywhere but in the brain?
This universe could be virtual and we could be outside of it but wired into it in some way. If that's the case though, how far can we explore the functionality of the brain while the virtual world continues to show us something that appears to provide that functionality while not actually doing so?
Quote from: David Cooper on 01/01/2014 20:40:26 This universe could be virtual and we could be outside of it but wired into it in some way. If that's the case though, how far can we explore the functionality of the brain while the virtual world continues to show us something that appears to provide that functionality while not actually doing so? While only containing two letters, the word IF is still one of the largest in our vocabulary. My dad always used to say; "IF a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his behind parts on the ground when he hopped.
This is why we have to examine the feasibility of our search and the possible fruits we may obtain thru it's endeavor. I doubt seriously that we'll be garnering any useful information about an intelligent consciousness that resides beyond our useful control.
You seem to suggest that we may be living in a Matrix of sorts. May I suggest to you that science deals with evidence we can measure. Until evidence for this spooky Matrix world view is found, I suggest we're wasting our time speculating about any such mythical theatrics.
If you're trying to work out how things are, "if" has a major role to play. If you want to ignore that, you may not explore the right paths.
A disappointing paper, alas. After wandering into a multiplicity of divergent alleyways it seems to settle on the essence of consciousness being a flexible, multivariate approach to optimisation. Hardly exciting, and to a considerable extent contradicting some of the examples the authors give of non-conscious systems. Bu 5/10 for trying, at least, to define what they are talking about, which puts them way ahead of the rest of the field.
Quote from: David Cooper on 02/01/2014 19:53:24If you're trying to work out how things are, "if" has a major role to play. If you want to ignore that, you may not explore the right paths.The right path is the scientific method David and not just a bunch of speculative if's. I'm not as interested in the if's as I am in the why's and the how's.
We can choose to waste our time with constant metaphysical speculation or, we can look for measurable evidence. I choose to use the scientific method, you're free to waste your time if you so choose.
The scientific method does not tell you to reject any of the "if"s on a whim. You should not be rejecting any of them until they are disproved.
2. Gather information and resources (observations)..(can't check this one)
Where are the observations suggesting consciousness originates elsewhere?
3. Form an explanatory hypothesis..........................(can't check this one either)
Without those suggestions, this research has reached as far as the scientific method allows us to go!!
What we need is a model, any model, that can show a useful cause-and-effect role for consciousness in a system where the existence of that consciousness can also be recognised by the system. We don't have one of those at all at the moment and trying to shut people's minds down is not at all helpful.
So I repeat: "Where are the observations that suggest consciousness originates elsewhere?"Enough said!
It isn't all about observations.
It's about the lack of room for consciousness to exist in the brain.