Naked Science Forum
General Science => General Science => Topic started by: Karen W. on 20/08/2007 07:33:32
-
A question from family members?
What's wrong with electronics being installed inside the human body?
Now I am talking things like computers, Cell phones, GPS devices etc?
And if these things are possible how far away is this in our future? Would you be up for implants? LOL What do you think?
-
I seem to remember that "they" have developed some sort of tooth implant that works as a mobile phone.
There are others, one researcher has had lots of implants in his body...i struggle to remember who and what they actually did. I think i may have heard this on a TNS edition.
calls for, Chris or Dave
-
Really.. that is very interesting.tooth that doubles as a cell phone!
-
I don't have anything against this idea. I look forward to the day when information can be directly uploaded, stored, accessed by the brain, and downloaded using computer chips implanted in the brain.
-
Does that seem far fetched to you? Can you see it happening any time in the near future? As Paul said that some of this technology has come to pass he believes! I have listened to my boys who believe the same. I am curious how these things will work in correlation with our bodies anti rejection infections, poisoning, cell phones etc, are not known for being the safest close to the head or is that the antennas? How will all these things effect our physical health?
-
There is the radiation danger, as you said from cell phones and other such devices. But I think the actual materials are safe; people are fitted with metal bone replacements, e.g skull bone replaced with metal after injury.
I heard on a science podcast that rat neurons have been cultured and connected to aeroplane flight simulators. Eventually the neurons learned how to fly the plane simulation. How cool is that!?
Here's a link; scroll right down to the 4th-last entry on the page, or press control + f and search 'rat neuron':
http://sciencefictionbiology.blogspot.com/2007_06_01_archive.html
-
WOWSA!! That is fabulous piece!!!!! Amazing.. oh my gosh can you imagine the possibilities that come from this alone...Oh my word! Stefan That is marvelous!!!! WOWOWWOWOWOWOWOW!!! Way Cool!
-
There is the radiation danger, as you said from cell phones and other such devices. But I think the actual materials are safe; people are fitted with metal bone replacements, e.g skull bone replaced with metal after injury.
Neither is as simple as that.
Metal bone replacements are not as good as the natural material, and hip replacements are only expected to last about 5 years (not least because there remains the risk of an immune response to the foreign objects).
Radiation is an emotive word that is fairly meaningless without further qualification (if you are afraid of radiation, then stay out of the light - for light too is radiation, and at a higher energy than the microwaves used for mobile phones).
Radio waves are not classes as ionising radiation (i.e. they cannot directly damage molecules within the body), but like all radiation (including light) they can heat the body. How much heat they generate depends on how much energy they use, but then this would be applicable for energy in whatever form it is used, whether it generates radio waves or not. If you had a 100W energy requirement for these in-body electronic systems, then it would generate intolerable amounts of heat in the body no matter whether it generated radio waves or not; but if you are operating with only milliwatts, then the amount of heat will be limited, whether that is generating milliwatts of radio energy or whether just infra-red radiation caused by natural heating.
-
Thanks George I read that but need to read it a couple more times to understand what you mean about the where the radio waves come from if they did? Sorry me is confused!
-
I think cybernetics may well be the way of the future anyway.
I think it may become a necessity if we can't genetically alter ourselves to fix things then electronic implants may be the only solution....assuming we can do it right ! (i'm thinking very very very long term here)
-
I was referring to Stefan's reference to 'radiation' from cell phones, but that radiation is in the form of radio waves. I assume he was considering that some of the implanted electronics would transmit data and would have similar radio wave transmissions.
-
Cybernetics eh.. I could not remember the proper term! Thanks Neil!
When you say to fix things do you mean like physical ailments diseases organs etc?
-
I was referring to Stefan's reference to 'radiation' from cell phones, but that radiation is in the form of radio waves. I assume he was considering that some of the implanted electronics would transmit data and would have similar radio wave transmissions.
Thanks for the explanation my brain was not getting it! Thanks George!
-
Cybernetics eh.. I could not remember the proper term! Thanks Neil!
When you say to fix things do you mean like physical ailments diseases organs etc?
Sorry ..my posting is caught short today.....yes..physical ailments...repairing the body from the inside.....enhancements to visual and auditory systems etc etc......but when I said very very very long term I was referring to far distant future when we have to leave this world and have to deal with all the nasty rays that our atmosphere and magnetosphere currently protects us from.......
...the moral/ethical issue I can see is that life may well end up being eternal !!
-
Yes it may ...LOL Thank you for clarifing. So do you really thing this stuff is that far away..? I know you said you did.. Sorry ditz at work here! I see it closer maybe wrong, but work on bionics and such are still happening am I correct?
-
OK, adding a prosthetic here or there, even an artificial eye, is one thing; but at what point do we cease to be human at all? At what point do we become like the rat neurons inserted into the flight simulator?
-
OK, adding a prosthetic here or there, even an artificial eye, is one thing; but at what point do we cease to be human at all? At what point do we become like the rat neurons inserted into the flight simulator?
That would depend on what "you" consider "being human" to be.
-
That would depend on what "you" consider "being human" to be.
I do agree - which is why it is a question that is easy to ask, but far more difficult to answer; but the answer to the question is not irrelevant.
Ofcourse, these things tend to progress at a fairly slow pace (even if the technology develops rapidly, making that technology safe and reliable takes a lot longer); so by the time the technology actually becomes commonplace it is likely that the people answering that question will be another generation, with a different view to ourselves as to what the answer to the question should be.
-
Metal bone replacements are not as good as the natural material, and hip replacements are only expected to last about 5 years (not least because there remains the risk of an immune response to the foreign objects).
This is an erroneous statement that needs correcting. I have had metal femurs (thigh bones) since I was 36. The metal is inert in the body and dos nothing. The little high impact plastic used to form the socket of the hip did - at one time but no longer - cause some bone degeneration around the implant stem in the leg causing the leg prosthesis to become loose. But most of the problems have been overcome, both with hips, knees and other structures in the body. I have had one of my hip implants since 1991. and it is just fine.
The most amazing to me implants are the facial reconstructions using plastics metal and tissue grown in the lab. In fact, as soon as I can afford it, I am getting a set of new permanent teeth. False teeth are a pain in the arse.
The things I am a little concerned about are the electronic items such as GPS transponders to locate people, pet ID inserted under the skin of pet - soon to be humans, etc. Governments are already breaking the Social Contract political theorist have been using to justify the power of a government ever since the "divine right of kings" fell into disrepute.
I don't want to get into a work whee I am owned by anything -government, corporation, another person -anything. The cybernetic technology makes this too easy to achieve.
-
Jim does this mean that if you got lost we could find you with one of these ?
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.global-b2b-network.com%2Fdirect%2Fdbimage%2F50073874%2FMetal_Detector.jpg&hash=d1a3aed6d5c1599fdaa900424ef4fe45)
-
Of course you could. In fact, if you flew an aerial magnetic probe over my present location the magnetic anomaly would knock your socks off.
-
That is amazing Jim Bob.. I have found that I do have a big chunk of arthritis in my shoulder joint and deterioration of the bone (humorus) He said, there is a big chance he will have to replace my shoulder joint! I won't know until after the 13th of September. So you have had success with the hip.. I have a bad leg.. especially bad on long walks.. sometimes short walks or just getting out of chairs that are to low to the ground!
-
Metal bone replacements are not as good as the natural material, and hip replacements are only expected to last about 5 years (not least because there remains the risk of an immune response to the foreign objects).
This is an erroneous statement that needs correcting. I have had metal femurs (thigh bones) since I was 36. The metal is inert in the body and dos nothing. The little high impact plastic used to form the socket of the hip did - at one time but no longer - cause some bone degeneration around the implant stem in the leg causing the leg prosthesis to become loose. But most of the problems have been overcome, both with hips, knees and other structures in the body. I have had one of my hip implants since 1991. and it is just fine.
The most amazing to me implants are the facial reconstructions using plastics metal and tissue grown in the lab. In fact, as soon as I can afford it, I am getting a set of new permanent teeth. False teeth are a pain in the arse.
The things I am a little concerned about are the electronic items such as GPS transponders to locate people, pet ID inserted under the skin of pet - soon to be humans, etc. Governments are already breaking the Social Contract political theorist have been using to justify the power of a government ever since the "divine right of kings" fell into disrepute.
I don't want to get into a work whee I am owned by anything -government, corporation, another person -anything. The cybernetic technology makes this too easy to achieve.
I agree with the phone GPS and I want know form of id or banking chips.. Nada!