Naked Science Forum
General Discussion & Feedback => Just Chat! => Topic started by: Make it Lady on 10/05/2010 22:14:31
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Nick Clegg has a tough choice. Either work with Mr Snake Oil or Mr Dower. Now Gordon has said he will step down it is Mr ? I guess it could be a Miliband (with action man hair) or a Balls! If you were Nick, what would you do? I'd run screaming for the hills at the thought of working with any of them.
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He is on a hiding to nothing whatever he does. If he does not help to form a government he will be thought of as someone incapable of being part of a government in these difficult economic times (it will be damaging for any moves to introduce PR). If he goes with Labour, he will be thought of as supporting a minority goverment that has been voted out in order to try to gain LibDem support for policies that few people thought importent enough to vote for. It looks like a power grab to try to get PR, but I would not trust Labour to pursue it anyway (except a system to benefit Labour). If he goes with the Tories they will make gestures that will not be forthcoming - particularly PR. That is without the pressures from his own party!
Personally, I would like to see PR but think the economy the most importent issue and also think that it would be more democratic to go with the Tories because they clearly got more seats than anyone. I think the actual measures will be severe whoever gets in - more severe than has been suggested. In any case I would like to see Vince have a role in decisions regarding the economy, though I would be shocked and surprised (if pleasantly) if he were made Chancellor.
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How austere do you think things will become in the UK? I've seen some comments to the effect that the UK is not far behind Greece.
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The word austerity is overstating it a bit. It just means that the country has to live within its means and we all have to tighten our collective belts a bit until the deficit is paid off. We will have to pay more tax, though, pre-election, none of the politicians emphasised this too much! Britain, along with many other countries in the world, has not supported its manufacturing industries over the last 50 years or so. There was (still is) a get-rich-quick concept that all we need to do is control the finance and marketing and buy whatever we need from the cheapest source. I think Britain is still, surprisingly, 6th or 7th in the world as an exporter of manufactured goods, but the loss of manufacturing in many areas, and the loss of skills and infrastructure, is hugely damaging and irreplaceable in the short term.
Don't get me going :-)
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I think the use of the words austere and austerity are misleading and deliberately desgined to echo the age of austerity after the second world war; that scale of cut backs and rationing are totally inconcievable. I find it hard to imagine any form of austerity being accepted by the public at present - a cut back on public services, reduction of consultancy, and a freeze on new porjects is about as much as could be stomached. I dunno if any of the board members can recollect the immediate post war years - but if there are any it would be interesting to hear their memories of what real economic austerity is about.
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At the risk of getting Graham going [:)], I have to agree with a lot of his points. Considering that a great deal of the wealth in the UK was created by technology and innovation, it seemed to me that there was a common perception that engineering was a rather second class activity. When I told people I was an electronics engineer they would often say something like, "Oh! You fix TVs then."
That attitude had something to do with my current location.
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To me it seems weird that the Liberals are seriously considering coalition with the Conservatives. Their viewpoints are, or at least should be, totally opposed. One group should be liberal and...)
I can understand that it would be awkward to work with "the party that lost" but, when you came third, you should accept they still enjoyed greater success than you did.
I just hope that he sticks to his guns and works with whoever offers a change of election system to proportional representation.
Also, for the record, the UK has low inflation and is technically not in recession (though it's close). I don't think we are anywhere near as badly off as the Greeks.
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BC, historically, the Liberal party is not really opposed to modern conservatism. It used to espouse views akin to libertarianism and the free market economy, but I agree that the modern LibDems are not the same beast. Neither party are, in any way, supporting PR; the offer of a referendum on AV is very weak and just a sop. AV has no real element of proportionality and would not help to get representation for the many people who are effectively disenfranchised (unless they throw their hat in with one of the two major parties); it is still a first-past-the-post system and, even then, a majority of tory and labour MPs will be campaigning against it.
Geezer, I 100% agree. The word "engineer" has been devalued in the UK (although not elsewhere in Europe). You wouldn't believe the nunber of tellies I've fixed!
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Geezer, can you fix my TV?
Sorry couldn't resist. Nor can I resist saying that Greece SLID into economic melt down.)
OK now the government has been formed do you think Clegg did the best deal or do you think Labour did the best deal ie which the con-lib pact implode and then come back with Mr Actionman hair as their new leader?
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I think Clegg could have done a better deal for himself. Deputy PM is not a very good post. I think, as Alistair Campbell suggested, he should have stuck out for a department.
However, under the circumstances it is probably the best overall compromise in order to get the country on a more sound economic footing. The onus is on Clegg to make it work or it will sour the public's views of any future PR arrangements; this would not be the right conclusion but it would certainly be spun that way. The Conservatives have to try to make it work too as they would not want to risk another election unless circumstances arise to make them look like they have done everything perfectly and it was the LibDems who screwed it up. This is a target for the Conservatives will be working towards though, or they risk not getting in next time.
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Geezer, can you fix my TV?
It would cost more than it's worth to ship it over here, plus the fact that tellies are nasty dangerous things. I get the willies working on anything that runs on more than a few volts. But if you drop it off with Graham I'm sure he'll give you a learned opinion on what you should do with it.
BTW, if I were Nick Clegg, the first thing I'd do would be to change my name.
http://heritage.caledonianmercury.com/2010/04/19/useful-scots-word-clegg/00589
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I'm sure Graham would tell me what to do with it!!!!
I'm quite glad no-one has done any research on my surname.
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Oh no, no - I'm far too polite :-)