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Author Topic: sticks,string, and mud.  (Read 5695 times)

Offline m.levert

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sticks,string, and mud.
« on: 14/09/2007 01:58:44 »
i love technology,but it hasn`t progressed much since the bronze age. at this time,everything man made was derived from sticks (huts,baskets,weapons) string (rope, thongs & ties) or mud/stones (pots,tools,grindstones)

in the bronze age, all of these things had to be grubbed up out of the earth from a mine or cut from a plant.

 and 4000 years later, we`re still doing the same, so no real progress really.

yes, we have lots of clever stuff now like machines, cars, computers etc. but they`re still only sticks, string or mud.

look inside any T.V or machine of any kind, you`ll see silicon chips (very refined mud) wires(special kind of string)

perhaps the only real leap in human technology was the discovery of electricity, but even so, that still has to be made using machines made of stuff dug from the ground.

we perhaps might be wise not to rely on our mod cons too much,

so can anyone name any man made thing that does not involve mud,sticks or string in some form or other?





 





 

another_someone

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sticks,string, and mud.
« Reply #1 on: 14/09/2007 03:31:32 »
Not sure that one would regard wire as string (if you consider string as plant matter), but rather closer to your mud (it is after all mineral).

I would guess you would regard oil as mud.

The two things you have not mentioned, although you might say they are not really new, are energy and information.  Certainly, even in ancient times, man had fire, yet fire is neither mud, nor string, not stick.  Early on, too, man had language in order to aid communication, although the storage and processing of information only came later (the invention of writing and the invention of the abacus).

You have also ignored the wind (although maybe that comes under energy - but different from fire).
 

Offline Batroost

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« Reply #2 on: 16/09/2007 09:48:11 »
Quote
so can anyone name any man made thing that does not involve mud,sticks or string in some form or other?

Mathematics...
Language...
Philosophy...
Religion...
Music... (the sound not the instruments!)

 

paul.fr

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sticks,string, and mud.
« Reply #3 on: 16/09/2007 10:10:42 »
Quote
so can anyone name any man made thing that does not involve mud,sticks or string in some form or other?

Religion...


whilst not made of mud,sticks or string. They could be described as "stick in the muds".
 

Offline m.levert

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sticks,string, and mud.
« Reply #4 on: 17/09/2007 00:17:27 »
thanks for those very peceptive comments, can`t disagree with anyone, although iwas only considering material devices or inventions, and fire is just burning sticks..rather a product of a combustible material than an object in itself.

science,philosophy,religion and music are more like ideas, and only become useful when utilised to create material objects (from mud)

energy and information are not human inventions,they are basic proprties of the universe, and would exist without human presence.

the sound of music is a non material thing, and would not exist without instruments made of sticks and string.

so, sorry but my contention still stands, however i would be overjoyed for it to be legitimately refuted.

the object of this discussion is to encourage more basic thinking about science and stimulate new ways of looking at things. we can utilise technology without being dependant on it.


 

 

 

Offline Ophiolite

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« Reply #5 on: 17/09/2007 17:22:14 »
energy and information are not human inventions,they are basic proprties of the universe, and would exist without human presence.
While this is true of energy it is decidedly not true of information. One of the shorthand conventions within knowledge management is the pathway: 
data --> information -->  knowledge --> wisdom

Information is independent of reality in that is is a description of a perception of reality. Information codifies that perception within an artificial construct and classification.
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #6 on: 20/09/2007 15:15:13 »
You may find this article interesting. It's quite long, but stick with it.

http://www.kurzweilai.net/articles/art0134.html?printable=1
 

Offline eric l

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« Reply #7 on: 20/09/2007 15:20:10 »
Haven't you all forgotten the WHEEL ?
 

Offline m.levert

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« Reply #8 on: 24/09/2007 20:43:34 »
hey, eric, thanks for your post, but a wheel is just a bent stick. sorry.

i don`t really want to flog this point too much, it was just intended to start a conversation,
i have tried to engage people verbally, but it`s the kind of thing that gets mostly blank stares,
as you may expect,

cos i know there isn`t anything (yet)

except maybe information, i`m not sure this counts, as it is a pre-existing property of the universe. ophiolite is partly correct, this is the best answer yet (ever) thanks.

especially thanks Dr.Beaver -(i will get through the article) you must be psychic, i was working my way towards mentioning paradigm shift.

i am wondering what kind of growth curve photographic film evolution displays-
progress in camera design and film quality etc.. anyone done the research?

ha! that`s all mud. except for the paper which is mashed up sticks.
 

Offline Soul Surfer

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sticks,string, and mud.
« Reply #9 on: 24/09/2007 23:40:48 »
Your definition and re definition of sticks, string and mud effectively covers all material objects and your analysis of ideas implies that they only have relevance when attached to material objects.  We live in a material universe so you are defining a truism.  Over all ages people have wished to control and move objects remotely by thought alone and as yet there is no good or consistent evidence that this has ever happened and no good reason to believe that this will ever happen except by using a material connection between our thoughts and the physical world.
« Last Edit: 26/09/2007 15:02:01 by Soul Surfer »
 

Offline m.levert

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« Reply #10 on: 25/09/2007 00:35:30 »
with great respect, soul surfer is mistaken.

i have only stipulated man made objects/devices, no natural objects or phenomena.

i will humbly accept that the three categories are somewhat interchangeable and i expect we could draw a very nice venn diagram to demonstrate this.

i mentioned nothing of mind control/telekinesis. not interested in that.

i want to get at the idea of a paradigm shift in science, akin to the transition from alchemy to modern empirical science.

where could science go after this era? things made only of light? existence as coherent energy is a very attractive idea.

this is not as sci fi as it sounds. i`llget back with some ref`s.




 

Offline m.levert

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« Reply #11 on: 25/09/2007 00:38:03 »
ps.. i`ve been around the strings a bit, and we definitely need someone to keep us on the straight and narrow. thanks, S.S.
 

Offline Soul Surfer

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« Reply #12 on: 26/09/2007 15:00:23 »
There is one very good reason why something cannot be made out of electromagnetic radiation without the "sticks strings and mud" of material being involved and that is that in the absence of matter, photons do not in any way interact with each other. so it is is simply impossible to make an assembly of photons into anything other than an assembly of exactly the same photons travelling in exactly the same direction.  The only thing photons can do is carry energy and information related to where they came from.

The hypothetical particles that mediate the strong force, gluons, do interact with each other and could in theory from something that lasts for a very short period.  they have been called glueballs but such objects would decay very rapidly back to the familiar particles that make up the "sticks strings and mud" of normal life.  The only time when they might have a significant separate existence is in the quark gluon plasma phase of our universe way back in the first microseconds of the big bang.  Gravitons I think are like photons and do not interact but the conditions under which they would be significant is even further in the depths of the fireball.
 

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sticks,string, and mud.
« Reply #12 on: 26/09/2007 15:00:23 »

 

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