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Offline macrocosmos

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Infinite space
« on: 20/09/2007 15:31:05 »
I would like to put forward the hypothesis that space has existance, yet it has no substance.
It is infinite in the truest sense, in that it has neither beginning nor end and simply is.
That within space all things exist as a state and that state is formed from sequences Ad infinitum.
Nothing within space is fixed and all states of existance are subject to change except the state of space.
We exist in a finite universe within an infinite space. to test this hypothesis extract every particle of matter and every joule of energy, every ounce of force and be left with just space. Time has stopped because time is motion dependant, all that exists is space, now introduce energy and observe how it changes state within an infinite space.
Now introduce matter and observe its relationship with energy and space, see the beginning of time.
Now introduce force as gravity and watch a universe form.
Use visualization to change the order of how space, matter, energy and force relate.
You may learn something wonderful.


 

Offline macrocosmos

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« Reply #1 on: 22/09/2007 11:06:16 »
The sound of steps becoming nearer are heard.
A tapping sound like someone tapping on a window pane issues from behind the computer screen and a voice says "Hello is anybody there?"
 

Offline Quantum_Vaccuum

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« Reply #2 on: 24/09/2007 03:52:40 »
I would like to put forward the hypothesis that space has existance, yet it has no substance.
It is infinite in the truest sense, in that it has neither beginning nor end and simply is.

I would beg to disagree with this. If it simply "is" there is not theory to it, and would be more reliogn matters. For example: if you say that it  was there whe 'God' was 'born' then that would be religion, and meanwhile all of the universe creation theories are either religios or don't specify everything. An example: the big bang theory states that at first there was a very very condensed particle, that simply exploded, and rapidly started to create a reaction that is still expanding, but that doesn't explain everything. A few questions that I would ask about that theory, is were did that particle come from, and where is the universe expanding in to?

 

Offline Quantum_Vaccuum

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« Reply #3 on: 24/09/2007 03:55:12 »
I would like to put forward the hypothesis that space has existance, yet it has no substance.
It is infinite in the truest sense, in that it has neither beginning nor end and simply is.

      I am not trying to insult you in any way by saying this, and I am very sorry if I do (it shouldn't be affending at all, but I could see how it would be):      Therefore...Your 'theory' is an example of religous matters, and doesn't exactly explain much about the creation of the universe.

 

Offline macrocosmos

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« Reply #4 on: 24/09/2007 07:01:57 »
There is no offense in disagreement, there is only an opportunity for debate,However labeling something as religious because it has been kept simple to ensure that it is easy to understand by the majority is somewhat insulting in a philosophical sense.
From what you have written I can only assume that the initial sentence was read and not the whole premise.
 

Offline macrocosmos

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« Reply #5 on: 24/09/2007 11:05:48 »
Perhaps I should expand.
I believe that to understand anything you have to be able to move along any axis in any direction.
I believe that mathematics and therefore by default science in its current form are defective.
Mathematicians do not wish to encompass true infinity because true infinity reduces mathematics to a localised science.
True infinity has no boundary and therefore there can be no measurement that is accurate other than a measurement that refers to a point within specific parameters and beyond that point becomes inaccurate.
Now without mathematics to back it up, science cannot prove something as true except as to a designated human value of true and that designated value by definition is subject to flux and therefore cannot be true.
Physics cannot explain definitely how a universe begins and ends and Quantum physics is Metaphysics for those who have a short attention span.
 

Offline Quantumorigin7

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« Reply #6 on: 19/06/2008 12:51:15 »
is were did that particle come from, and where is the universe expanding in to?



I remember when I first argued this as a 12 year old. People thought I was nuts. If we had a multi-verse, if we are just the universe that we know, how did that just start from nothing and if another outside dimension(universe) started it, what started that? It's a viscious cycle scientists will be going in forever. Believe me, I am studying up on quantum  mechanics, physics and chemistry and it all adds up that there was an ETERNAL source that created it all, whether it be a god or some super particle that was just always there.
 

Offline tedstruk

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« Reply #7 on: 25/06/2008 05:53:55 »
I had a bad experience with space once.  I would rather introduce this idea in numerical concept.
If a line which has consequetive numbers numbering to 13 and begins and ends in pi-infinity x or 1 what then does the line do when it is subject to a calculation or computation?  the truth is that most mathematicians add subtract multiply and divide their way into a logarithm, but in this case, they can only find a way back to their equasion.  Why is this?  Well the truth is that present theories only allow for constants, not variatives, so when confronted with a truely variable number, it is tossed in to the mix as an equasion instead of what it really is.  This theory I call the theory of common numbers and unknown fractions.  Suppose something shatters with such force to create a perfect variation, one that ultimately breaks down physics into theorys...? Where do we go? the truth is there has to be an explanation! So the line variates instead of the common values of Pi, infinity, x or 1.  It fattens, shortens, alters in such a common way, that only a simple minded person can see it! So the most common of answers is again a razor(Okkams? sp.)?  Not really. The answer is extremely complex. Each variation that plays ultimately a musical extravaganza is part of an ever more complex set of calculations of computations, and until the music achieves the ability to become a common value(0,pi,infinity, x or 1), it continues on... and at which time as it becomes part of the fabric of the space time continuum itself, it culminates in a release of its entity, that is it expends its reaction in the manner of the final note of the music it was playing,  until it is spent.  The reaction it makes, can be traced to the type of reation through the study of its mathematical break down, however, if the reaction is spent, the only way you could find out what caused it would be to break down the space time continuum itself until it revealed the answer...(not)
 

Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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« Reply #8 on: 25/06/2008 10:25:10 »
I too hold to an infinate Universe for space, but in mine there is only one universe that stretches to infinity. Adding another universe is another way of nailing up a fence to mark out a boundary that is not there. Mass = gravity even down to sub atomic particles and right up to the brightest star. Energy does not roam freely without mass. Even light has mass.

Introducing energy into a vacuum would require a direction for the energy to go in. How can it alter anything without mass to give it direction?

I would like to put forward the hypothesis that space has existance, yet it has no substance.
It is infinite in the truest sense, in that it has neither beginning nor end and simply is.
That within space all things exist as a state and that state is formed from sequences Ad infinitum.
Nothing within space is fixed and all states of existance are subject to change except the state of space.
We exist in a finite universe within an infinite space. to test this hypothesis extract every particle of matter and every joule of energy, every ounce of force and be left with just space. Time has stopped because time is motion dependant, all that exists is space, now introduce energy and observe how it changes state within an infinite space.
Now introduce matter and observe its relationship with energy and space, see the beginning of time.
Now introduce force as gravity and watch a universe form.
Use visualization to change the order of how space, matter, energy and force relate.
You may learn something wonderful.
 

lyner

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Infinite space
« Reply #9 on: 26/06/2008 15:46:51 »
Quote
Even light has mass.
Here we go again. Can you quote any evidence to support that? Or has it been suppressed by the Science Establishment?
 

Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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« Reply #10 on: 27/06/2008 13:15:49 »
http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/961102.html
Einstein adding, the curvature of space-time is affecting photons does not disprove that light has mass. The curvature of light bending near large objects does however indicate that gravity affects light and therefore must have some mass.

Large objects according to Earth and other planets do generate gravity and this with both of my feet firmly on the ground I do agree with.

To say that light is curved by space time rather than a large object makes no sense whatsoever.

Has anyone considered that a black hole might just be an area of the universe that has few planets and stars in it and therefore the light appears to be going into the void when really it is still travelling huge distances? Or indeed has it gone past so many objects that almost all of the light has been hitting and bouncing off countless millions of objects that it appears to have vanished when all that really has happened is that every part of the beam has been absorbed by objects ranging from massive stars to sub atomic particles and we interpreted this as a black hole?

Now for an analogy.

A satellite has mass but because it is moving around the Earth at a speed that provides a centrifugal force sufficient to prevent gravity from pulling it back to the Earth’s surface it could be interpreted as weighing nothing. Yet common sense tells us this is not the case.

At rest on the Earth’s surface we can weigh the satellite or indeed Nasa’s shuttle and find it’s rest weight.

Now light does not have a rest state and therefore trying to weigh photons at rest provides us with some serious problems. Yet we can see that light bends in relation to massive objects in space so surely light must have some mass? And our problem really is that we have not figured out a way to put a figure on it?

« Last Edit: 27/06/2008 23:31:41 by Andrew K Fletcher »
 

lyner

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Infinite space
« Reply #11 on: 27/06/2008 21:42:20 »
You really will have to try to write a book about all this. Then, when you try to tie up all your loose ends, you may find they start to unravel a bit more.
« Last Edit: 27/06/2008 21:44:47 by sophiecentaur »
 

Offline Alan McDougall

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Infinite space
« Reply #12 on: 30/06/2008 19:25:58 »
Macro,

What you stated in starting this thread was exactly what I was trying to get across in another thread I started. I will go nd reread what I posted then and report back

Regards

Alan
 

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Infinite space
« Reply #12 on: 30/06/2008 19:25:58 »

 

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