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Offline dkv

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What is true and false?
« on: 30/09/2007 07:48:18 »
I challenge your intellectual abilities to give give absolute definition of true and false.

(Under "What is Information?" I proved that Information is relative.
Under "God's Math" I proved that all abstract constructs though derived from same reality occupy different locations.
They act as independent components to contruct approximation of  real.
And reality carries no proof of it being real as the dream are as real as Real.)
Can anyone in this forum give me the defintion of true and false?



 

Offline Bored chemist

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What is true and false?
« Reply #1 on: 30/09/2007 13:54:53 »
I can't give you a definition (though I bet wiki can) but I don't think I need to. If, as you say, you have proved something then you have shown it to be true. For that to be the case you must know what "true" means. Even if you haven't proved it (ie there is some error in the proof) then you still needed to know what "true" meant to attempt the proof.
 

Offline dkv

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What is true and false?
« Reply #2 on: 30/09/2007 14:25:31 »
What i proved to be true is not absolute.
It was not proved to be Universal truth.
Within the framework it was understood to be true.
 

Offline dkv

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What is true and false?
« Reply #3 on: 30/09/2007 14:40:17 »
A vraiation of the above the question form biological
prespective:

Lie is strategy towards better future.
Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesnt.
The strategy is personal and is as dangerous high jump or imagination.

Overall with respect to a group a lie may stand for what "carrier of lie" expresses to its own group for some future benefit or to avoid possible loss.

Most probably this better future stands for pleasure.

But can lies lead to movement towards sustainable pleasure??
In other words can pleasure be sustained if past is based on lies.
This might appear to be a question of morality.
But at physical level I am curious to know whether a space craft can fly in sky because someone lied to make money?
Can a collection of lies lead to real events?
What happens if the lies get caught?
The real events do not vanish. But the liar may suffer some losses.
Nature appears to be neutral to truth and lie.
 

Offline Ophiolite

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What is true and false?
« Reply #4 on: 01/10/2007 10:55:12 »
Nature appears to be neutral to truth and lie.
In the same sort of way that you are immune to logic?
 

Offline BenV

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What is true and false?
« Reply #5 on: 01/10/2007 12:03:39 »
Surely...
1=1 is true
1=2 is false
Mathematically, of course.

If you're talking mangoes, then 1 mango = 1 other mango may not be true. the mangos could be different sizes, or one could be over-ripe.
 

Offline dkv

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What is true and false?
« Reply #6 on: 01/10/2007 12:48:37 »
yes 1=1 is true to an assumption that the objects we are comparing are comparable.
Which 1 apple is not equal to 1 mangoe
but 1 apple is equal to 1 apple
and also 1 fruit = 1 fruit (this aplies to both apple and mangoe)

So we conclude that all Mathmatical statements must be contained in a container.
We need a container.
In this example apple mangoe fruit are containers.
So we ask when we express 1=1 mathematically are we using any container or not?
 

lyner

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What is true and false?
« Reply #7 on: 01/10/2007 13:24:44 »
Maths is based on Axioms.
These are rules of a game that has to be self consistent. The game has become more and more complex as maths has evolved but it is still self referential.
True and False, in binary mathematical logic,  have set definitions. In binary logic, there is no room for 'perhaps' or 1/2. Other systems allow 1/2 - or even pi.
Real life is not axiomatic. However, we can often use  parts of maths to solve problems; we can add numbers together or divide them to calculate how many beans we should end up with. We hop in and out of maths to suit ourselves.
But there are lots of things that can't be worked out with the maths we have at the moment and, conversely, there are many results from mathematical processes which have no place in our physical world.
For instance, you can't have a piece of string -1m long (minus one) but maths will tell you  (imply) that you can make a square with an area of 1m squared using four pieces of string -1m long.
The Blackadder 'beans' sketch where Blackadder is trying to teach Baldrick arithmetic says it all. " one bean plus one bean makes -some beans"

Statistics is a branch of Maths which tries to work with a few numbers rather than talking about the whole body of numbers. It can be useful  but has to be treated carefully, if you want a meaningful answer from it.
 

Offline dkv

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« Reply #8 on: 01/10/2007 14:08:20 »
Yes there can be a conitunity of logic..
And we know that Mathematics is incomplete and inconsistent. But dont we still try to live with it.
We live with this inconsistency and work on it.
But before we give up let us find what out in what other ways we can think of numbers.
As I said 1+2=3 requires a container even in the mathematical domain. The very application of 1+2=3 requires a container....(independent of the fact whether Mathematics is consistent or not)
So my question is what is this container called in mathematical space...
1 Apple + 1 Apple = 2 Apples ; Apple is the container of the mathematical operation 1+1=2.
But in abstract which is the container?
If there nothing parallel to what I am saying then let us define the following 
Axiom: All mathematical operations require Container.
Do you agree?


 

Offline dkv

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« Reply #9 on: 06/10/2007 08:04:10 »
Given an operation
O(a,b,c)
Contained in C where C is called an container.
We state that
Unless a,b,c can be defined with respect to C , the O(a,b,c) is meaningless.
Where as meaning is defined as something which can be understood.
 

Offline dkv

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« Reply #10 on: 07/10/2007 12:36:22 »
Consider a Group G with a single member C ,G(+,-)={C}
Addition and substractions are defined as :
C+C=C
C-C=C

Under +
Closure  -> C+C=C
Associative -> C+(C+C)=(C+C)+C
Identity Element -> C+C=C (Identity element is C)
Inverse Element-> C+C=C  (Inverse Element is C)

This holds under addition and substraction.

Under -
Closure  -> C-C=C
Associative -> C-(C-C)=(C-C)-C
Identity Element -> C-C=C (Identity element is C)
Inverse Element-> C-C=C  (Inverse Element is C)

Can we name the Groups?
 

Offline dkv

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« Reply #11 on: 07/10/2007 14:25:00 »
I call them fundamental Groups.
Such Groups Contain only one element and the element stastifies all the properties of Group.

Moreover ,we define infinite sets which can satify Group theory requirements:

Let there be an arbitary number a .

Let us define Group under the operation of  + ,such that
G(+) = {-...-ma ,-(m-1)a, ......-2a ,-a ,0 ,a,2a,3a.......ma , (m+1)a.....}

0 can be understood as 0.a


Examples of Fundamental Groups:
G(+,-)={0}
G(+,-)={delta} where delta->0
Under Multiplication and division
G(x,/)={1}
G(x,/)={1+delta} where delta->0

The C we had discussed earlier can represent the container:
therefore
G(+,,) ={C}

The properties of container is close to the dimensions.
However C applies to all kind of expression.

An interesting question will be to define the containership of Probability ....
« Last Edit: 08/10/2007 03:26:10 by dkv »
 

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What is true and false?
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