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Author Topic: Analogues of magnetism  (Read 3139 times)

another_someone

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Analogues of magnetism
« on: 02/10/2007 21:17:34 »
Einstein showed that magnetism was a relativistic artefact of the coulomb force.

Would it not be reasonable to expect the other forces to have similar relativistic artefacts?

The most gravity - should there not be a force that is generated by the gravitational pull of particles travelling at high speed perpendicular to the line of sight?

But even the strong and weak forces?  Although these forces are short range, if the particles are travelling with sufficient speed, then should not the relativistic contraction of space allow a force to be perceived at substantial distances away from these particles?


 

Offline Mr Andrew

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Analogues of magnetism
« Reply #1 on: 02/10/2007 23:11:51 »
Yes, it's called the gravitomagnetic force.
 

another_someone

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Analogues of magnetism
« Reply #2 on: 03/10/2007 01:22:29 »
Yes, it's called the gravitomagnetic force.

What about its application to strong (colour) and weak forces?
 

Offline Soul Surfer

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Analogues of magnetism
« Reply #3 on: 03/10/2007 08:20:03 »
The colour forces are very complex and short range and involve particles moving at relativistic speeds to the two aspects of them are very much bound together.  The weak forces are also similar and were related to electromagnetism first. The interaction is called the electroweak interaction.  I tend to visualise it as an electromagnetic interaction associated with the electromagnetism that is associated with the spin (angular momentum)of particles and virtual particles around them.  even neutrinos at close range have virtual electron positron pairs around them inside their uncertainty period so they can exhibit some interactions as if they were charged particles.
 

another_someone

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Analogues of magnetism
« Reply #4 on: 03/10/2007 14:32:43 »
even neutrinos at close range have virtual electron positron pairs around them inside their uncertainty period so they can exhibit some interactions as if they were charged particles.

OK, I am not going to claim to understand the mathematics around this, but it does make me somewhat wonder:

Given the short range of of the weak force, so the position of this virtual particle pair must be highly constrained.  If we assume them to be an electron-positron pair, then their rest mass is known.  If the strength of the weak force is a consequence of the velocity of the virtual pair, then the momentum of the pair must be calculable by knowing the strength of the field involved.  Is there enough latitude in all of this for the necessary uncertainty of the momentum and position required by Heisenberg?

Also, how is the virtual pair bound to the neutrino?  Virtual pairs exist (assuming they exist at all) everywhere - so why would the effect only be visible close to some particles?
 

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Analogues of magnetism
« Reply #5 on: 03/10/2007 21:49:12 »
The virtual pairs are not bound except in the sense that their existence is constrained by the uncertainty principle.
 

Offline sohail

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Analogues of magnetism
« Reply #6 on: 03/10/2007 21:54:34 »
Einstein showed that magnetism was a relativistic artefact of the coulomb force.

Forgive me for asking; but what does that mean!?
 

Offline Soul Surfer

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« Reply #7 on: 03/10/2007 21:58:52 »
It means that magnetism is a natural result of moving static electrical charges and relativity and not something in its own right.
 

another_someone

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Analogues of magnetism
« Reply #8 on: 03/10/2007 22:13:12 »
The virtual pairs are not bound except in the sense that their existence is constrained by the uncertainty principle.

But the point I am trying to make is that theoretically virtual particles can exist anywhere (vacuum energy), so if virtual particles are the source of the weak force, then why is this only happening near certain particle, and we do not have a diffuse weak force throughout the vacuum?
 

Offline Soul Surfer

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Analogues of magnetism
« Reply #9 on: 03/10/2007 22:41:37 »
You can only experience a very short range weak force when there is something there that can experience it. ie you need two intereacting particles one a neutrino and the other anything else
 

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Analogues of magnetism
« Reply #9 on: 03/10/2007 22:41:37 »

 

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