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Author Topic: Where's the remnants of what created us ?  (Read 7615 times)

Offline neilep

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Where's the remnants of what created us ?
« on: 17/11/2007 22:48:34 »
" We are all made of Stars "







So, where's the ' left-overs ' of the star that made us ?






 

Offline Karen W.

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Where's the remnants of what created uS ?
« Reply #1 on: 17/11/2007 22:53:17 »
Could that be That we are all the twinkles left in the sky.... and that perhaps once we were one big gigantic star that exploded and some of us evoved here and others of us just continue to shine and sparkle way up high!

I bet that is why I sparkle so!!!! LOL And why I LOVE GLITTER AND SPARKLELY STUFF SO MUCH!
 

another_someone

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Where's the remnants of what created us ?
« Reply #2 on: 17/11/2007 23:04:11 »
Not quite sure what you mean by 'we are all made of stars?'.

The Earth is not so much made of a star, as part of a star (we are part of the atmosphere of our Sun).

If by 'made of stars', you are talking about the super nova explosion that is suggested may have triggered the creation of the solar system (of which the visible Sun, and all the planets within are a part of), then at present the theory seems still to be in its infancy, and I don't think anyone has yet traced any possible black holes, or neutron stars, or other residue, that they would suggest is a candidate for the remnant of such a supernova.
 

Offline neilep

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Where's the remnants of what created us ?
« Reply #3 on: 18/11/2007 07:42:51 »
THANK YOU Karen and of course THANK YOU GEORGE.

Yes George, I thought it was more than a theory in it's infancy and that it was generally accepted that planets and other stars are formed from the remnants of supernovas. I didn't realise that it was not the established convention !
 

Offline lightarrow

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Where's the remnants of what created us ?
« Reply #4 on: 18/11/2007 12:43:09 »
Not quite sure what you mean by 'we are all made of stars?'.

The Earth is not so much made of a star, as part of a star (we are part of the atmosphere of our Sun).

If by 'made of stars', you are talking about the super nova explosion that is suggested may have triggered the creation of the solar system (of which the visible Sun, and all the planets within are a part of), then at present the theory seems still to be in its infancy, and I don't think anyone has yet traced any possible black holes, or neutron stars, or other residue, that they would suggest is a candidate for the remnant of such a supernova.
But shouldn't all elements heavier than iron have formed inside stars?
 

Offline neilep

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Where's the remnants of what created us ?
« Reply #5 on: 18/11/2007 18:01:38 »
So, there must a neutron star or a black hole floating around out there somewhere !!
 

another_someone

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Where's the remnants of what created us ?
« Reply #6 on: 18/11/2007 20:13:32 »
So, there must a neutron star or a black hole floating around out there somewhere !!

Present theory would probably suggest so, but nobody knows in which direction to look, or even how far away it might be (but then, how do you get to see a black hole - or even a neutron star, unless it has an influence on something close by?).
 

lyner

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Where's the remnants of what created us ?
« Reply #7 on: 18/11/2007 22:10:34 »
Is there any serious alternative suggestion to a supernova for creating all the heavy elements? The conditions during a supernova are just right.
 

another_someone

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Where's the remnants of what created us ?
« Reply #8 on: 18/11/2007 23:27:20 »
Is there any serious alternative suggestion to a supernova for creating all the heavy elements?

That we have no generally accepted alternative does not make it the correct theory, only the dominantly accepted theory.

Even then, the only arguments I have seen is that heavy elements are created within stars (in the absence of any other context where there is assumed to be similar energy levels), but that is not to say it was created with a star, or whether it was created in many stars, and drifted around and mixed from all the various sources before collapsing into a given solar system.

I have seen no present evidence that actually identifies a particular stellar source with a particular local abundance of heavy matter.

The conditions during a supernova are just right.

Just right for what?  There is so much we don't know, both about what happens in a super nova, but even more critically, about the relative abundance of heavy elements (and isotopes) to know whether the presumed conditions would, or would not, match the conditions we may yet encounter.

It is the best theory we presently have, but in the absence of so much that we still don't know.
 

lyner

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Where's the remnants of what created us ?
« Reply #9 on: 19/11/2007 10:14:27 »
Just right means hot enough and with enough pressure, of course.
But now I see the meaning of the orig question. The 'inside' remains of that supernova would be very hard to spot but, as it would be relatively near,  (Probably the nearest big black lump to us?) there is a chance of it turning up in some observations. I guess gravitational lensing  could reveal it.
I suppose you could expect to find stuff in orbit around it, too - also invisible, though.
 

another_someone

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Where's the remnants of what created us ?
« Reply #10 on: 19/11/2007 14:19:09 »
Just right means hot enough and with enough pressure, of course.

Indeed, and anything powerful enough to create heavy elements would almost certainly have been very bright in its day (unless it was masked by some effect), but would it have had to be a supernova, or some other bright effect (e.g. could it have been generated within the polar jets of a black hole? - these too are very energetic effects).

But now I see the meaning of the orig question. The 'inside' remains of that supernova would be very hard to spot but, as it would be relatively near,  (Probably the nearest big black lump to us?) there is a chance of it turning up in some observations. I guess gravitational lensing  could reveal it.
I suppose you could expect to find stuff in orbit around it, too - also invisible, though.

If it was (as present theory suggests) caused by a supernova explosion, then I would have thought the explosion would have created a number of stars, not merely our Sun, so it may be possible to try and model the process, and look for patterns of stars that match that model, and work back from there to where the centre of the explosion should be.  At present, I have not heard that anyone is confident enough to propose such a detailed model that we could back project from observable stellar systems to a presumed super nova that created them.
 

lyner

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Where's the remnants of what created us ?
« Reply #11 on: 19/11/2007 22:36:30 »
Quote
. . . .then I would have thought the explosion would have created a number of stars, not merely our Sun, so it may be possible to try and model the process . . . . .
good thinking.
 

Offline Soul Surfer

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Where's the remnants of what created us ?
« Reply #12 on: 19/11/2007 23:41:14 »
You're mostly on the right track but what probably happened is a bit more complicated than what you have been saying.  Firstly the elements heavier than lithium have all been made in stars of various sizes but mostly the larger ones.  Only supernovae can make the really heavy ones above iron on the periodic table. All stars throw out quite a lot of material during their lives but supernovae do it in the most spectacular way and get all the press attention!  When stars sling out material either slowly or quickly it is hot and has to spend quite a few million years cooling down so the products from quite a lot of stars are probably mixed up.  The next thing is that supernovae create blast waves that tend to sweep up the clouds of gas and dust some time after they have formed so that gives the clouds a bit of a kick to start them condensing into stars and planets.  also when stars and planets condense they do so in clusters and we do have a local group of stars with similar velocities and similar ages.  So the full answer  is really that what made us came from a whole load of stars some of which were supernovae long gone a good distance away and was probably triggered by one or more supernovae some time later. 

The spiral arms of galaxies are probably the waves of star formation and destruction propagating through the galaxy.
 

lyner

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Where's the remnants of what created us ?
« Reply #13 on: 20/11/2007 13:07:57 »
OH, so the pictures you get of nebulae around supernovae are not telling the whole story?
These nebulae must be expanding, I guess, so you can then get mixing.
I had always pictured the nebulae as condensing  into themselves to produce the new stars, 'locally'.
 

another_someone

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Where's the remnants of what created us ?
« Reply #14 on: 20/11/2007 15:07:54 »
I had always pictured the nebulae as condensing  into themselves to produce the new stars, 'locally'.

As I understand it, the core would be pretty much exhausted (a supernova are the death pangs of an exhausted star), hence why the core is likely ultimately to be dark (black hole or neutron star).

To create a new star, I expect that you would need more fuel, and this being from interstellar gas clouds that are compressed by the shock waves of the explosively dying star that is the super nova (that at least was my understanding).

I suppose that thinking about it a bit, the question that comes to mind is how did our Sun become a relatively isolated star, with its nearest neighbour being 4.5 light years away?  Would our near neighbours have been created by the same super nova explosion that created our own Sun?  How far out can we assume the stars are our siblings from the same birth event?  How close were these stars to each other when they first formed (I am assuming that the initial shock waves would have compressed gas that was much closer to the parent star, maybe not much further than the heliopause for the star, but then given these new born stars sufficient inertia to thrown them out into divergent paths)?
 

Offline Soul Surfer

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Where's the remnants of what created us ?
« Reply #15 on: 20/11/2007 16:28:10 »
The sun is pretty typical of stars locally in our part of the galaxy. Stars really are that far apart.  Even in extremely dense clusters, stars are generally far enough apart that they will never collide and could even have their own planetary systems.

Parts of the "exhausted" cores are the really important bits.  They contain the heavier elements that can form rocky planets and life.  A large star going supernova blasts most of its material back out into space only a relatively small part of it goes on to become the neutron star or black hole.
 

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Where's the remnants of what created us ?
« Reply #15 on: 20/11/2007 16:28:10 »

 

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