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Author Topic: What is IQ? What does it mean?  (Read 39852 times)

Offline ukmicky

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #25 on: 25/11/2007 23:05:52 »
i like this bit

Quote
you have mastered the art and science of precision
;D ;D

Maybe thet know something i dont :D
 

Offline ukmicky

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #26 on: 25/11/2007 23:06:29 »
Like how to spell they
 

paul.fr

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #27 on: 25/11/2007 23:09:05 »
Like how to spell they

I thought you were writing in code, that only those with an IQ above 127 would understand.
 

another_someone

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #28 on: 25/11/2007 23:35:23 »
i do not have a problem with mensa members (as such), just mensa.

through careful advertisements, ooh look who our members are, what's your i.q. and so on they have conned people in to thinking that to be the best of the best you have to be a member of mensa, and those that are, are the best of the best.

so many people place emphasis on what their i.q. is, like it's some kind of status symbol...it's all down to clever marketing, and gullible members of the public.

Which ad are you talking about (not that I claim to know what ads Mensa currently runs)?

I suppose you can argue that all marketing tries to attract gullible members of the public, but while I agree that can put me off too, if you go too far, you'd never buy anything.
 

Offline JimBob

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #29 on: 26/11/2007 00:13:37 »
i do not have a problem with mensa members (as such), just mensa.


I do have a problem with some members who I still know and see all the time, my step-sister being one of those.

Having a Latin name is the be-all and end-all. Too bad it means "cafeteria" in German and Dutch and is the Spanish term for "stupid female."

It is the concept of gathering with the premise that what "we" have in common is our mind, and excluding other people who are not "as gifted." Their motto, probably - Eschew Imbecility! (Dullardness is so gauche! Nevil, more wine, and don't spill it on the table cloth again or I will be looking for a new butler!)

I am part of the human race and suggest that this is the proper place for a human being, not an artificial society that is limited by some (better, higher, more impecable, elitist, etc.) criteria. Being special is the beginning of elitism and repression. It is just another "Master Race" looking for Lebensraum.

To measure or be proud of ones gifts is to deny that in some way, no matter how minor, every person on the face of this earth is special. I will defend this point to the death, too! If one cannot see this, they should lock them self up in their own little world and forget all about fitting in because no matter what you do, you will always be right in your own mind and rarely yield to another.  One of the most beautiful people I know is the daughter of a friend. She has Downs Syndrome. Yet she is very wise in her simplicity, always joyful and lives life more completely than anyone I have ever met. I want to see life as simply as she does and know I would be much more happy and GIFTED (yes, I said gifted) if that simplicity were incorporated into my life. (It is the endpoint of the search for "holiness = wholeness - both from the old High German root "hal".)

I doubt if she could qualify for Mensa. That is a devastating loss for Mensa members.
 

Offline JimBob

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #30 on: 26/11/2007 00:16:18 »
Pardon me, perhaps I should have said "... whom I still know ..." I don't know and don't care
 

paul.fr

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #31 on: 26/11/2007 00:29:12 »
Pick any newspaper up and more often than not there will be a simple mensa test, ooh, why not take a proper test it tells you, then they want a few quid for the privilege. So it could be fair to say that it is a money making scam.

Like other things in life, a lot of people want or need status or some form of authority / power over another. This is where mensa says thank you kindly, and we let them get away with it. For too long and for a long time yet to come, people see an IQ level as something to aspire to and to be in awe of. Clever marketing, nothing more.

If anyone wants to join a club/forum well thats all well and good, but when they claim some kind of elite status i have to say hold your horses cowboy.

The thing with someone winning the Olympic 100 metres race, is that we are not told that to be great or considered to be great you have to be good at running. Yet mensa sets itself up as that and people make decisions based on that. This is why nobody should take a mensa test, keep your money and be happy that you know what you know.

If you use mensa to meet like minded people, like i said all well and good, but please tell it like it is. "having a high IQ is merely a measure of ones ability to do well at IQ tests"
 

paul.fr

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #32 on: 26/11/2007 00:44:20 »
here is something else that i think is sad.

I would like to see more forum members contribute to the science topics, either with questions or answers. I suspect that many may be put off, or afraid to look silly if their question is deem that way, or their attempt at an answer is not given the respect it deserves.

anyone willing to try and answer a question should be praised, just for trying. Take the QoTW topics, why do they get so little attention? They are open questions from people just like us, and any comment or attempt at an answer is more than the question poser possibly knows.

why is that? why do people not attempt to answer questions?
 

another_someone

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #33 on: 26/11/2007 01:12:02 »
I do have a problem with some members who I still know and see all the time, my step-sister being one of those.

There may be one or two people (in or out of Mensa) whom I may have a problem with, but I rather regard that as an indication of my inadequacy rather than theirs.

I am part of the human race and suggest that this is the proper place for a human being, not an artificial society that is limited by some (better, higher, more impecable, elitist, etc.) criteria. Being special is the beginning of elitism and repression. It is just another "Master Race" looking for Lebensraum.

So would you regard a society of women, or a society such as for the blind, or the deaf, as being a "Master Race" looking for "Lebensraum"?

I suppose in our own way, we are all personally looking for "Lebensraum", but ofcourse, you were not talking about the literal meaning of the word, but with its implicit associations.

There is often a debate within Mensa whether one should admit in public to being in Mensa, and (at least for men - slightly different rules for women) it is considered more dangerous to include it on your CV than to leave it off (the risks of generating just this kind of hostility are too great, and as you say, really it does not say much pertinent).  Women sometimes like to mention if they are in Mensa simply because they feel it is a counterweight to their being regarded as a bimbo.

The reason I joined Mensa was nothing to do with proving my IQ (I don't even remember what my IQ was on the test, and I really don't care).  We had some friends of the family around some years ago, and they were trying to convince me to get out a bit more.  The man was a member of the freemasons, but I really could not see myself joining that, but their daughter was a member of Mensa, and that sounded interesting, so I applied for the test, and the rest is history.  Nothing egotistical, just a way of getting out and meeting people, and I have made some very good friends along the way.

I do realise that one's experience of Mensa is very dependent upon the local group one is exposed to; and I know many people who have said that the first group they encountered ware so offputting that they wanted nothing to do with them, but many years later, they found a different group, and found they fitted in totally.

If you choose to believe that because I am a member of Mensa, that I am one step away from trying to form a "Master Race", that has to be a judgement you will have to make for yourself (on the positive side, I have never had any children, and extremely unlikely I ever will, so I shall not be starting any race whatsoever - master or otherwise).

On the contrary, as I have said above, and have said to you in private, having a high IQ not only does not make me superior, in certain contexts can be a handicap.  It has its benefits, but at least as many disadvantages; and insofar as my relationship with Mensa is concerned, there is no conspiracy to take over the world, but at least as much it is a place where one's handicap is less important.  That is why I early baulked at referring to IQ as an ability - but rather simply suggested it was a different process of thinking, and it is a difference that I share with some other people.

One of the most beautiful people I know is the daughter of a friend. She has Downs Syndrome. Yet she is very wise in her simplicity, always joyful and lives life more completely than anyone I have ever met. I want to see life as simply as she does and know I would be much more happy and GIFTED (yes, I said gifted) if that simplicity were incorporated into my life. (It is the endpoint of the search for "holiness = wholeness - both from the old High German root "hal".)

I doubt if she could qualify for Mensa. That is a devastating loss for Mensa members.

I don't know why you have to shout that your friends daughter is gifted, as if I would doubt that in our own way, we are all gifted.

I know there is a formal term 'gifted', but I cannot say I like the term, because it does indicate that there are people who are not gifted.  We may all have different gifts, but that is not to say we are not gifted.

I am not sure why you think her absence from Mensa is a loss for Mensa.  If you are saying she is shunned by Mensans, then that would indeed be another matter.  No organisation can seek to be all things to all people, and Mensa seeks to address a particular constituency, without denigrating or compromising anyone who seeks a different constituency.  Nobody in Mensa assumes that Mensa and Mensans are all that is in their life, only that Mensa forms one part of it.

Certainly, if her parents were Mensans, then at least as far as UK policy is concerned, then she would be welcomed as a family member of a Mensan (as is an autistic son of a Mensan that I know).
 

paul.fr

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #34 on: 26/11/2007 01:23:22 »
would it be presumptuous to suggest this be moved to chat?
 

another_someone

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #35 on: 26/11/2007 01:28:30 »
Pick any newspaper up and more often than not there will be a simple mensa test, ooh, why not take a proper test it tells you, then they want a few quid for the privilege. So it could be fair to say that it is a money making scam.

Depends on what you mean by a money making scam?  A scam in whose favour?

Yes, I suppose it is a scam in my favour, since every time you take a home test, or a supervised test (you actually do not need either to enter Mensa - any recognised supervised IQ test will suffice), then more money goes into Mensa's coffers to provide services for people like me (although I still need to pay my subscriptions too).

The directors of Mensa are volunteers, and the company itself is a company limited by guarantee, so it does not distribute dividends.  The only income it makes is that used to provide services for its members (i.e. me, and others like me - but all that means is that our subscription is slightly less than it might otherwise be).  It is a not for profit company.


If you use mensa to meet like minded people, like i said all well and good, but please tell it like it is. "having a high IQ is merely a measure of ones ability to do well at IQ tests"

Where have I said the converse.  It is others who have accused me, and others like me, of either being stuck up prats, or worse, of trying to have evil designs on the world.
 

another_someone

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #36 on: 26/11/2007 01:29:36 »
would it be presumptuous to suggest this be moved to chat?

I have no problem with that - I don't know if the original poster might prefer the thread split (if you can find a convenient point to do that).
 

another_someone

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #37 on: 26/11/2007 01:34:44 »
here is something else that i think is sad.

I would like to see more forum members contribute to the science topics, either with questions or answers. I suspect that many may be put off, or afraid to look silly if their question is deem that way, or their attempt at an answer is not given the respect it deserves.

SquarishTriangle and myself did initially try to answer the question.  You may argue I should not have mentioned Mensa at all, or that I should not have mentioned my own score on that test - in neither case did I expect this to turn into an argument about whether Mensa was an evil organisation.

I only mentioned Mensa as an organisation that used IQ tests, and was not trying to make a sales pitch on the matter.
 

Offline Karen W.

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #38 on: 26/11/2007 02:09:28 »
I failed my IQ test because I couldn't spell "IQ"

NO Neily!!! You did it wrong!!! It is "EYE QUE" or is that "I CUE" or is that "AYE Q"! 

OH dear... now look at what youv'e gone and done!!LOL LOL!


Its all in good fun.. This is the second one I have ever taken the other on here also..

LOL there should be no fuss or shame in taking it or having fun with it or using it as a

guide for your self or a goal... I agree that george only meant it as one of the places

that offer the test.. was not boasting or otherwise.. I have many aquaintences in the

program and have never seen them behave oddly or at least no worse then my crazy self..

we are all just people.. LOL This should be done for the fun of it if you choose if it

means more to you to do it to place yourself so be it.. Doesn't bother me ... but I

think Georges statement was misunderstood....

Anyway I took the test for fun and scored 124  I did however struggle with a few math

problems and had to sit with paper and pen to figure them out.  It was fun learning or

trying to do some of those things just like school again!
 

Offline Karen W.

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #39 on: 26/11/2007 02:23:42 »
Quote
Your IQ score is 129!
 
You've got a very experiential way of learning and a strong mathematical mind and you have mastered the art and science of precision. That's what makes you a Precision Processor. For you, life is a series of equations.

Your brain is naturally predisposed to intense mathematical acuity, so it's second nature for you to cut to the heart of an issue, to discover quick solutions while others get bogged down in unnecessary details. This allows you to communicate a variety of ideas to other people, so don't keep it to yourself

The score is me but the strong mathematical mind part aint.

I always rush tests as i find them boring so i never achieve my true score.

  Hey how did you get the written part.oh yeah you had to pay for it! DANG!

Hey I worked hard for that score and I am quite frankly not sure what it means cause I did not pay for the analysis of that score! LOL

Wait I found the free short analysis! LOL

Quote
Your IQ score is 124!
Word Warrior

You are equipped with a verbal arsenal that enables you to understand complex issues and communicate on a particularly high level, making you a Word Warrior. Your command of words is so powerful that you are also a terrific communicator -- able to articulate big ideas to just about anyone.

The power of words translates to fresh ideas off paper too, in both artistic and creative pursuits. This allows you to be a visionary -- to extrapolate and come up with a multitude of fresh ideas.
« Last Edit: 26/11/2007 02:27:23 by Karen W. »
 

another_someone

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #40 on: 26/11/2007 02:46:47 »
I always rush tests as i find them boring so i never achieve my true score.

Ironically, I don't normally take these tests either.  They don't particularly interest me, and if I do well, and people know I am in Mensa, I risk looking like I am showing off, and if I do badly, then it looks even more embarrassing - so it is a lose/lose situation.

The only reason I took this test was to see if there was to see if it would better enable me to answer the original question.

Maybe, in the circumstances, I should have refrained from mentioning my score at the end of it (it probably served no purpose to do so).
 

Offline elegantlywasted

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #41 on: 26/11/2007 03:01:10 »
To bring back the original question - or something close to it. How does the point system work??? For instance 100 is "normalized" but what is the difference between a 109 and 129? Or even a 135 and 139? How far of a gap do the numbers represent?
 

another_someone

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #42 on: 26/11/2007 03:20:31 »
To bring back the original question - or something close to it. How does the point system work??? For instance 100 is "normalized" but what is the difference between a 109 and 129? Or even a 135 and 139? How far of a gap do the numbers represent?

In the UK, Mensa use the Cattell-B test, and a culture fair test, and take the highest of the two scores.

I did a quick search on google for the Cattel-B test, and came up with the following discussion thread that seems mostly to be consistent with what I have heard elsewhere:

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/archive/index.php/t-18992.html

The key points are that the Cattell-B test goes out of range after a score of about 160, and that the entry requirements for Mensa are at 148/149 (they mention 149, I thought I remembered 148, but I might be wrong).

What is also mentioned on the thread (it seems reasonable, although I had not heard it before) is that most tests that are optimised for average IQ, go out of range before they reach the IQ range that Mensa is looking at, and in all likelihood, the Mensa test might be unreliable when working around the 100 IQ range.

The numbers for the culture fair test would be different, but I don't know what they are.

If I recall correctly, I did get a test score of 138 on my Mensa home test, and that was considered better than the score I got on the official supervised test (on which I must have got at least 148 to be allowed into Mensa - although I don't know exactly what score I did get).

There is some discussion on the thread as to what constitutes 1 Standard Deviation on the Cattell B test, and they seem to be throwing around figures like +/- 15, or +/- 25.  The +/- 25 does seem far too wide for me, and I would happily go with +/- 15, but I could not swear to it.

Ofcourse, for any other tests, the Standard Deviation number would be totally different.
« Last Edit: 26/11/2007 03:44:57 by another_someone »
 

another_someone

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #43 on: 26/11/2007 03:34:22 »
From the British Mensa site

http://www.mensa.org.uk/iq-levels/
Quote
British Mensa uses two main tests to identify people's IQ scores, the Cattell III B and the Cattell Culture Fair III A.

A score which puts you in the top two per cent of the population on either of these papers would qualify you for membership of Mensa.

An adult can only get a maximum IQ of 161 on the Cattell III B test.

As different IQ tests were developed, each was given its own scoring system. Therefore, an IQ of 150 is a meaningless claim unless you know the actual test which was used. In order to compare one IQ test against another, the scores are converted to 'percentiles', i.e. where a person's score falls in comparison to the rest of the population by percentage. Mensa offers membership to anyone whose IQ score places them within the top two per cent of the population, no matter which approved test was used.

A top 2% mark in any of these frequently used tests below qualifies you for entry to Mensa. The minimum test mark to get into Mensa is:

  • Cattell III B - 148
  • Culture Fair - 132
  • Ravens Advanced Matrices - 135
  • Ravens Standard Matrices - 131
  • Wechsler Scales - 132

The BBC Test The Nation IQ quiz is not a recognised IQ test and so Mensa is unable to accept people for membership on the basis of their Test The Nation scores. However, achievement of a score of 120 or more in this IQ quiz would suggest you might like to have a go at a full Mensa IQ test.
 

Offline lightarrow

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #44 on: 26/11/2007 17:19:16 »
I've done the test but unfortunately I couldn't understand some questions, for examples:

1.NAMYERG is the anagram of what? (I wrote "city" but don't know)
2.A cinic knows the price of everything and the________of nothing (I put "emotion" but maybe it was "value"?)
3.The pure and simple truth is rarely pure and never_____ (I put "simple")

What would you answer to those?
 

another_someone

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #45 on: 26/11/2007 18:15:54 »
I've done the test but unfortunately I couldn't understand some questions, for examples:

That was one of my criticisms of the test - it was too culturally biased in some areas.

1.NAMYERG is the anagram of what? (I wrote "city" but don't know)

I am terrible at anagrams, so I guessed, but quite possibly wrongly, a city.

2.A cinic knows the price of everything and the________of nothing (I put "emotion" but maybe it was "value"?)

The correct answer is 'value' - it is a quote from Oscar Wilde, although I do not recollect the context - I'm sure it could be googled.

3.The pure and simple truth is rarely pure and never_____ (I put "simple")

I believe it is 'simple' - although again, I cannot recollect who said it, or in what context.
 

Offline Karen W.

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #46 on: 26/11/2007 18:20:05 »
The answer was germany and it was country, I believe!
then value and simple ..Yep George those two were right!
 

another_someone

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #47 on: 26/11/2007 18:52:07 »
I have now googled - and I could kick myself - the second quote is also Oscar Wilde - the first from Lady Windermere's Fan, and the second from The Importance of being Ernest - the latter being my favourite of the Oscar Wilde plays (although of late I have somewhat tired of Oscar Wilde).
 

Offline Karen W.

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #48 on: 26/11/2007 20:10:41 »
I did not know from whence they originated, but I had heard them before on a regular basis over the years!
 

Offline Bored chemist

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #49 on: 26/11/2007 20:19:03 »
paul, why the apostrophe? Nothing's been missed out and it's nothing's possessive.
Anyway.

Just to cover the original question about "what is it marked out of".
The original idea of this test was to identify children who were learning less than most of their classmates so they could receive more schooling. To do this it only needs to apply to kids.
What they did was get a whole lot of questions and ask a whole bunch of children to answer them. Then they looked at the childrens' test results and their ages.

For example the average score for 12 year olds might have been 70 out of 100.
A child, of whatever age, who got 70 out of 100 would then be said to have a "mental age" of 12- essentially he would be as bright as a typical 12 year old.
Similarly, typical nine year olds might average only 50 out of 100. (the numbers are made up - just as illustrations)
A nine year old who got a score of 70 would look as well educateed (or, more accurately sa good at answering these questions as a 12 year old.
The next thin they did was calculate an "inteligence quotient" by expressing the mental age as a percentage of the real (chronological) age.
So the nine year old who got 70% on this test would have an IQ of 100 * 12/9 or 133
A 12 year old with the same score would get assigned an IQ of 100
A 12 year old who got 50% would have an IQ of 100 * 9 / 12 ie 75.

They looked at lots of these "IQ" scores and found a couple of things . First they were roughly normaly distributed with a standard deviation of about 12 (the mean would have been 100 by deffinition)

Secondly they found that, unless something really odd happened in a child's schooling, they tended to maintain the same IQ throughout school.

If you rely on that staying the same through into adulthood (which is a dodgy assumption) then you can "measure" the IQ of adults by asking lots of people lots os questions, calling anyone who gets the average number right an IQ of 100 and sorting the rest of the population by how far above or below the average number of right answers they got, compared to the population as a whole.
As far as I can tell this is pointless. The idea of helping those schoolchildren who are falling behind makes sense (though I don't know how well it worked); the use of IQ in adults is strange.

To really study this you need to know quite a bit about statistics or, as Sir Cyril Burt did, you can make it up and, quite possibly get a Knighthood out of it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyril_Burt
 

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #49 on: 26/11/2007 20:19:03 »

 

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