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Author Topic: Evolutionary cosmology  (Read 32897 times)

Offline Vern

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« Reply #50 on: 12/06/2009 15:05:12 »
I have not seen Dr. Robert Hofstadter's shell concept, but I have read that he developed a shell construct for atomic nuclei at Stanford sometime around the 60's. However, his Nobel prize was not for that but for his findings that nuclear structure seemed to consist of three or four distinct entities.

You need not add my name to your speculation; we all borrow ideas from elsewhere.
« Last Edit: 12/06/2009 16:18:41 by Vern »
 

Offline jerrygg38

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« Reply #51 on: 12/06/2009 15:52:44 »
I have not seen Professor Robert Hofstadter's shell concept, but I have read that he developed a shell construct for atomic nuclei at Stanford sometime around the 60's. However, his Nobel prize was not for that but for his findings that nuclear structure seemed to consist of three or four distinct entities.

Tnaks for that info. My proton consists of three high energy quarks and my neutron consists of my proton plus one split electron. In my solution, the three quarks all form a common radius for the proton. The electrons form a shell at a further radius. The hydrogen atom merely has an orbiting electron similar to the Earth around the sun. However it is streched out like the rings of saturn.

You need not add my name to your speculation; we all borrow ideas from elsewhere.
 

Offline Vern

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« Reply #52 on: 12/06/2009 15:59:35 »
I have not seen Professor Robert Hofstadter's shell concept, but I have read that he developed a shell construct for atomic nuclei at Stanford sometime around the 60's. However, his Nobel prize was not for that but for his findings that nuclear structure seemed to consist of three or four distinct entities.


You need not add my name to your speculation; we all borrow ideas from elsewhere.
Tnaks for that info. My proton consists of three high energy quarks and my neutron consists of my proton plus one split electron. In my solution, the three quarks all form a common radius for the proton. The electrons form a shell at a further radius. The hydrogen atom merely has an orbiting electron similar to the Earth around the sun. However it is streched out like the rings of saturn.

I fixed your quote; it is difficult to avoid putting the new message inside the quotes. :)
The construct you describe would probably fit the hadron spectra that Hofstadter recorded. He was able to calculate some min and max sizes for spheres that would produce the spectral results. I was happy when I found that the inner shells of my scheme fit. The outer shells were missed, but this could be caused by the low density.
« Last Edit: 12/06/2009 16:03:42 by Vern »
 

Offline jerrygg38

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« Reply #53 on: 12/06/2009 16:24:14 »

I fixed your quote; it is difficult to avoid putting the new message inside the quotes. :)
The construct you describe would probably fit the hadron spectra that Hofstadter recorded. He was able to calculate some min and max sizes for spheres that would produce the spectral results. I was happy when I found that the inner shells of my scheme fit. The outer shells were missed, but this could be caused by the low density.

 Are you referring to the outer shells of the Proton. I have not studied this in detail yet. I do not believe that protons will have far out shells. Protons love neutrons because it is the neutron that has the outer shell and can surround the proton. If protons had outer shells then we could get stable atoms with 2 protons, 3 protons, 4 protons, etc. The neutron would not be necessary.

Thanks for fixing it. Often I think I am outside the quote but really inside it. I will try to be more careful.

 I looked up the Professor on the Internet and got your blog on the shells.
 

Offline Vern

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« Reply #54 on: 12/06/2009 18:46:24 »
Hofstadter's shells will google straight to my Hofstadter's Shells Revisited. You can get to the Wiki on Dr. Robert Hofstadter by using the name.
 

Offline jerrygg38

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« Reply #55 on: 13/06/2009 00:05:56 »
Hofstadter's shells will google straight to my Hofstadter's Shells Revisited. You can get to the Wiki on Dr. Robert Hofstadter by using the name.

How about you starting a discussion thread on your Shells. We have gone off topic on this thread.
 

Offline Soul Surfer

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« Reply #56 on: 19/07/2009 00:18:53 »
After posting stuff to these pages for ages and getting no replies I find that it has been hijacked by an off topic and somewhat inaccurate load of banter.

To pick up on one important point from the discussion above.  There is talk of the universe appearing "out of a black hole"  that is most definitely NOT what I am talking about.  A black hole is like the tardis it can be infinitely large in the inside without ever anything coming out of it other than the standard hawking radiation.

The reason for this is that both space and time are subjective and depend on the inertial frame of the particles. If these are all circulating reasonably coherently in tiny orbits right at the heart of a black hole to the particles circulating in these orbits the inside of the small black hole could look like a large universe with a long life.

This is similar to the string theorists talking about hidden dimensions with closed loops.  When part of a universe collapses into a black hole for any reason it effectively turns "inside out" and the collapse of the large dimensions forces the imaginary small dimensions to expand (again another feature of string theory) the rotational energy creates a whole new load of matter and antimatter which then decays to leave  a residue of matter in a new universe.

The wonderful thing about all this is that it is truly fractal and scale invariant and could be nested ad infinitum.  I really would like to discuss this seriously with some experts in gravitational physics and string theory.
 

Offline Farsight

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« Reply #57 on: 29/07/2009 21:23:52 »
SoulSearcher, I'm John Duffield. I've read the thread. Yes, I think it's important to take a step back and try to think things through logically, but I'm afraid to say I think you've missed something important here, and have been led up a blind alley by this unsupported and unscientific idea of evolutionary cosmology. To understand why I say this you need to understand what's called the Weinberg field interpretation of a black hole as opposed to the Misner/Thorne/Wheeler geometrical interpretation. Most people think this is "how it is" rather than just an interpretation. You can find mention of it in Kevin Brown's article on the formation and growth of black holes at: http://www.mathpages.com/rr/s7-02/7-02.htm. He doesn't share my view, because my view rules this out:

"..then it seems natural to extrapolate the clock's existence right past our future infinity and into another region of spacetime".

It isn't natural at all, it's foolish. The reason behind this is an understanding of time as a cumulative measure of local motion. A clock clocks up motion, not time. We can't see time, when we look out to the universe what we see is space and motion through it. When we see things moving at a slower local rate, we say it's down to time dilation, but this is overlooking the empirical evidence of what we actually observe. Einstein's original General Relativity gave equations of motion, not "curved spacetime". The latter was popularized by Robert H Dicke in the sixties, and is an effect not a cause. A photon travels a curvilinear path because of a gradient in the local space, not because of some action-at-distance, and not because spacetime is curved.

Now think of gravitational time dilation. This goes infinite at a black hole event horizon. That means that from where I'm standing here on earth or anywhere else, the speed of light at the event horizon is zero. The locally measured speed of light is of course using the same old 299,792,458 m/s, but imagine you're hale and hearty at the event horizon using a clock to measure the local speed of light. From where I'm standing, that clock is stopped, and it is stopped forever. You're using a stopped clock, your proper time is an illusion, and the Misner/Thorne/Wheeler interpretation is a non-real solution. There are no events, particles can't move, and no observations can be made. You can't actually measure the speed of light, and you can't actually measure any distance, because if you started to make a measurement, it would take an infinite time to do so. Hence whilst the black hole can be likened to the Tardis, it's actually the opposite. From the outside it has some measurable spatial extent. From the inside it has NO measurable extent. Check out the gravastar concept at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravastar. It's a frozen star, but actually it's even more of a hole than the traditional black hole. Infalling objects can't get past the event horizon so the black hole becomes a hole in spacetime. It takes an infinite coordinate time to measure anything, and the bottom line is this: nothing happens. Hence there is no possibility of any kind of evolutionary cosmology taking place.

Hi Vern. How are you keeping?

 

Offline Soul Surfer

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« Reply #58 on: 20/08/2009 09:50:26 »
Farsight   You are wrong.  You are attributing the properties of a hypothetical singularity to the event horizon of a black hole.  Gravitational time dilation does NOT go infinite at the event horizon the equations clearly show it.   

If you approached the event horizon of a quiescent (no large quantities of in falling matter) billion solar mass black hole (the sort in the middle of large elliptical galaxies) in a spaceship you could cross the event horizon without noticing much other than the distortion of the image that the bending of the light between outside and inside of the hole would produce.  The gravitational gradients would be completely unnoticeable.  even the static gravitational field would not be very great,  a good deal less than a typical white dwarf star and not all that much greater than the sun. 

Look up  http://xaonon.dyndns.org/hawking/  to find the properties of large black holes together with the relevant equations.

A lot of your other postings on this website give incorrect information and very naive and incorrect interpretation of diagrams.  I am not prepared to spend the time and effort arguing with you as you are clearly obsessed with your own ideas but I am considering reporting you to the administrators as a potential scientific troll.

 

Offline Nizzle

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« Reply #59 on: 20/08/2009 12:19:41 »
Nizzle takes a coke and some popcorn and sits down for this one :D
 

Offline Vern

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« Reply #60 on: 20/08/2009 14:27:36 »
Quote from: Soul Surfer
Farsight   You are wrong.  You are attributing the properties of a hypothetical singularity to the event horizon of a black hole.  Gravitational time dilation does NOT go infinite at the event horizon the equations clearly show it.
Could you show the equations? I seem to remember a discussion on this forum in which the opposite was postulated.

Farsight; good to see you here! I think you will like the folks that run the place.
 

Offline Soul Surfer

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« Reply #61 on: 20/08/2009 20:46:13 »
Look up the URL I have posted in the previous reply.  I have already had a considerable private conversation with Farsight and read his book.  It is a regurgitation of a lot of wild ideas posted round the web with a few good ideas buried in it but it claims to be accepted fact and does not clearly explain where the ideas depart from the standard models accepted today  which is far from the truth and likely to create confusion in people who do not know their subject very well. I am not sure how much is his own thinking or just bits picked out from here and there almost at random and cobbled together. a lot of his other postings are just cut and paste jobs on chunks of this book.  If you are indulging in wild speculation you should make it very clear to others that is what you are doing and not dress it up as accepted facts.

Its OK in this topic area because this is where wild ideas are to be posted but a lot of the rest of this site is getting a bit messed up with stuff that should be posted here.
 

Offline Soul Surfer

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« Reply #62 on: 20/08/2009 20:54:37 »
To return to the black hole argument.  There is a great deal of difference between what someone a long way away could (in theory) see of something falling into the hole compared with the experience of the thing that is actually falling in and he is talking about the former which gradually slows down and fades out in a shortish period due to gravitiational time dilation and red shifting.  Now I am talking about the experience of the material that is actually ccontinuing to collapse inside the event horizon as it forms.  This activity is obviously invisible from outside but is in theory modellable.
 

Offline Soul Surfer

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« Reply #63 on: 08/10/2009 09:54:57 »
Just to add a bit more to my "we all live inside a small black hole"  Idea  I have two alternative concepts. 

The first is that the space time and energy arises in the collapse to the membrane as previously collapsed imaginary dimensions are forced to expand (this fits well with string theory) 

The other is that the energy arises when two "frozen membranes" collide ie a collision between two rotating black holes both of which are inside an event horizon.

The end results and modelling are similar and both explain the background high energy quantum mechanical vacuum so I am not at the moment sure which is the most likely to work.
 

Offline Soul Surfer

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Re: Evolutionary cosmology
« Reply #64 on: 08/03/2013 00:09:51 »
I have not posted on this topic for quite a long time and the ideas have progressed a great deal since 2009. 

The first and most important thing is looking at the energy released inside the event horizon as a stellar mass black hole collapsed towards this hypothetical mathematical singularity.  Assuming that gravity continues to have an inverse square law the released energy increases without limit and collapsing down to around the planck dimensions would release enough energy to create a whole universe as big as ours.

Secondly during the collapse energy would be converted into particles initially as matter antimatter pairs but as has been found any residual asymmetry would allow one form to dominate.

One of the as yet undetected particles would be what I tend to call the gravitino that is a particle with spin but interacting only by gravity and exhibiting fermionic repulsion  It would be quite like the sterile neutrino suggested by others.  This could help to reverse the collapse

Also the formation of the first event horizon during this collapse is probably very precisely defined and may possibly be calculated from basic classical modelling of quark gluon plasmas.  This initial collapse will probably be very quick and once it has happened and the energy released remaining material falling into this process will be largely irrelevant and might in fact form cosmic ray particles in the new universe
 

Offline Soul Surfer

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Re: Evolutionary cosmology
« Reply #65 on: 16/10/2014 10:58:09 »
I have not visited this page for quite a long time but I have just Googled evolutionary cosmology and find it a  the top of the list.  Things have progressed quite a lot with my thinking since i posted this work and I have made several starts on a paper that I would like to see peer reviewed however I have still not got a firm idea where I should try to send it.  I note that my RAS journal  Astronomy and Geophysics occasionally publishes papers on new and speculative ideas close to the main stream of thinking so maybe that would be the proper place for it.

Anyway I must cut to the chase. 

Firstly a quick reminder about black hole collapse towards a theoretical "singularity"

The total quantity of energy released tends towards infinity.  That is even a relatively small black hole could release enough energy inside its event horizon to create a universe as large and complex as ours.  It just has to collapse far enough before quantum gravitation effects significantly change the inverse square law as happens with electromagnetic processes.  This means that even a stellar mass black hole could contain a whole universe.  It can never explode beyond its event horizon in this universe bit that does not mean that it could not create its own space time environment.
 

Offline Alan McDougall

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Re: Evolutionary cosmology
« Reply #66 on: 16/10/2014 14:56:59 »
This is my understanding of the Un- caused, Cause, God of all existence and creator of all reality.

God as I think he/she/it may be?

Nothingness

And then there was something

And this something became.

Everything which became existence.

Existence which was Existence which is Existence which will be existence forever

The primordial writhing cosmic cloud of magnetic flux energy, that the always was,  took on new form out of the void of formlessness and evolved and coalesced into a dense composite oneness of primordial glowing energy, which is and was and will be It is the primordial source of everything that moves and creates between everlasting cycles of order to chaos and chaos back to order.

Within a Timeless zone before existence came to be, a pool of infinite pure crystal thought which held within it all the hopes, dreams, for creating new order out of chaos and chaos to order, within the realms of existence and reality and as these immense waves of pure magnetic thought gradually coalesced and a mighty sentient consciousness emerged out of previous chaos.

Eternity stood still as it evolved into spirit and in agony twisted boiled dissolved reformed writhed and shook before existence or creation were and began to organize itself into a mighty being of thought and infinite intelligence.

Spirit became thought and thought thought..

It knew itself and called itself contemplated and said to itself I am who I say I am.

Back before anything was  in a timeless zone was pure mind which thought there is no dark only light within my infinite domain, so I moved poured great rivers of light energy into the great void of dark I created and said "let there be" light' and there was light.

Before the dawn of my creative events of existence, I withdrew into myself to allow for the void to come into existence and great incandescence's blazed outwards as I set entropy and time into motion.

I experienced time only in my dreams and the cup of my dreams ran over as do rivers that overflow their banks. I dreamed infinity of dreams in the first instant, and infinity multiplied by infinity out from the timeless zone of now. I thought and created the programs and processes of all possibilities in one awesome moment.

I began to recreate outside the absolute timeless realm and started the first realities based on new planes realms dimensions and textures and set the linear clocks of time to run forever.

Now I became aware of infinite potential within the vast unplowed fields of nothing and strode with great beams of Radiant Light toward the infinite horizon of eternity, sowing seeds of existence, before the timeless moment of creation.

I walked down the road of forever and sat down on the throne of infinity. I am the light being and my everlasting purpose is to create and cause existence, I am both nothing and everything I am the light that dispels the dark I am the dark that covers the light.

I grew out of nothingness by my own will, before anything was and with the mobility of  original thoughts and will created all that ever was, all that is, and all that will ever be. I am my own proponent there is no other proponent that creates.

As spirit I drifted ever in and out of awareness and within the fluxes of thought out of my mind of pure energy. I tossed out the foams of singularities started the flow of time and withdrew into myself outside time or space and sustained creation as a continuous flow of force of infinite power, like a vast boundless inexhaustible river of primordial energy which lit up creation with blazing power, light and unimaginable glory of the growing multiverse.
 
I sent out the primordial heat and energy to light up the universes for the seeds of life to be planted within them. I waited and watched my creation grow and expanded and this filled my being with joy and satisfaction and I knew my workmanship had been good. It was very good to be the only witness to the thundering dawns of creation

Polarities separated and the sons of light and the sons of dark flew apart and set up the tension enmity between good and evil forever. A deep and infinite chasm came between my perfect and the depravity of the terrible one, who served only himself and love and hate were came to be.

By Alan McDougall (South Africa)

I separated existence and withdrew myself into everlasting light and let it, the evil one exist in its darkness.

The opposing forces split the chasm light blazed to banish the dark and the dark flowed like evil tar to blot out the light forever.

I experienced time only in my dreams said God. God first dreamed. The cup of dreams ran over like unto rivers that overflow their banks. For God dreamed Infinity of dreams in an instant, and the Infinity multiplied by infinity for an Eternity created all possibilities in one awesome now. It was the Realm of Chaos. I began to create outside the Absolute Realm and started the first realities based on dimensions and textures.

There was no cause to my existence I simply, existed forever in the glory of my light. Having no Cause I am therefore both the effect and affect and shaper of everything.

On the panorama of bleak blackness," I am" "The Absolute", sowing seeds of universal radiant energy. Reality is the gem of my creation and the beauty of my achievement. I am he who lives, forever and forever, I illuminated the darkness with beams of dazzling light, radiant and translucent glory to share it with those who love me.

My acts of creation were the first event of my purpose reason for my existence. I formulate everything in the thoughts of my Mind and took numbers prime numbers and formulated matter and energy ",

With the simplicities and realities of the fundamental, "I made everything".

I took these first fundamentals and weaved them into the fabric of the reality, creating all the limitless universes on the infinite timeless foam where before there was but nothing creation and reason you exist?

I am the great Infinite Ocean that contains all things.

I sang the songs of creation and the new universe began to vibrate with countless frequencies of light, glory translucent and everlasting with the vibrations of the song of existence. The singer sang the song, the painter the painting, the creator the creation.

The universe then began to weave, dance, and vibrate flux and vortex into one colossal maelstrom, spiral in perfect order from the mind of the eternal one The Universe danced and sang with joy. The dancer danced and sang along with his new creation.

I am life giver. Back before anything was conceived , I am Infinite pure "mind" and "thought" there is no dark only light within my infinite domain, so I moved upon the great void of dark and said "let there be" light' and there was light.

 I am his first creation I am life giver the Lord created in the beginning of his works, before all else, when he set the heavens in their place, I was there, before he made the earth, I was his darling child and played the creation game, in eternal joy with him. I was his craftsman and his companion and delight. Wisdom and word is my name and I was with him before all creation. He is the ancient of days and I am his life and wisdom.

We together created mighty super-strings and weaved them together with colossal strands of energetic light colored in beautiful magnificent opalescence into the very fabric of reality and a new unimaginably beautiful universes , within the multiverse which were born in glory and delight.

What am I, I am who I say I am!

Any comments I tried to imagine how god came to be and avoid infinite regression

Regards

Alan
 

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Re: Evolutionary cosmology
« Reply #66 on: 16/10/2014 14:56:59 »

 

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