# The Naked Scientists Forum

### Author Topic: Dark matter, dark energy... or just dark formulas???  (Read 4050 times)

#### jumpjack

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• Posts: 3
##### Dark matter, dark energy... or just dark formulas???
« on: 21/12/2007 22:11:38 »
I always thought "dark matter" looks like a scientists' workaround to avoid saying "I don't know how actually Universe works": it really reminds me the "ether" old '800s scientists used to justify radio transmissions...

Now it's a news of these days that maybe ther's not so much "missing matter" there around...
I "discovered" it just a few weeks ago; in very simple terms, DE is "needed" to explain why universe is not collapsing or just slowing down its expansion (can't remember exactly...).

This brought back to my mind some formulas I studied some eons ago...
F = GMm/r^2
F = KQq/r^2

They are simply the same formula, as long as you replace mass with electrical charge!

So, the idea is: could it be possible, as per current physics knowledge, that negative mass exists? I am not talking about anti-matter, which has positive mass and negative charge. I am talking about a mass that, put in the first formula, gives out a negative force! I.e., repulsion rather than attraction.

If such a kind of matter existed.... how could we detect it? How would light behave in its proximity? How would a "negative black hole" behave?

The only thing I can imagine is that if actually negative mass does exist, it can't be here around, as when Earth formed, any piece of negative mass would have been "thrown away" from Earth and from any other body in solar system.
If negative mass existed, it would be far from any positive-mass solar system.

But, could we detect it?

#### socratus

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 329
##### Dark matter, dark energy... or just dark formulas???
« Reply #1 on: 23/12/2007 10:42:32 »
Dark matter, dark energy... or just dark formulas???
======================================================
Dark matter, dark energy...dark particles..... quant of darkness...!
......dark understanding...... dark formulas .

#### Soul Surfer

• Neilep Level Member
• Posts: 3345
• keep banging the rocks together
##### Dark matter, dark energy... or just dark formulas???
« Reply #2 on: 30/12/2007 18:37:59 »
Jumpjack I am afraid it IS a bit like that.  You have to remember that you are talking about the growing points of physical science.  There are many hypotheses that are being examined and predictions are being made that will enable these hyopotheses to be turned into a solid theory that maked further predictions.

What you need to do is to have a look at the whole range of these ideas and put them into context.  unfortunately most of the presenters have their own favourites and tend to bias things towards them.

As to your negative mass ideas the finding of particles with a negative mass seems unlikely because their behaviour would not comply with our physical laws but on the other hand there are conditions inside black holes where theorists suggest that gravity can in effect be reversed and what was gollapsing starts to expand again.

#### jumpjack

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##### Dark matter, dark energy... or just dark formulas???
« Reply #3 on: 30/12/2007 20:24:38 »
As to your negative mass ideas the finding of particles with a negative mass seems unlikely because their behaviour would not comply with our physical laws[...]
Why?
Doesn't F=GMm/r^2 "allow" negative mass existence?

#### Soul Surfer

• Neilep Level Member
• Posts: 3345
• keep banging the rocks together
##### Dark matter, dark energy... or just dark formulas???
« Reply #4 on: 31/12/2007 10:55:18 »
A body with negative mass would always violate the conservation of energy when placed near bodies with positive mass.

#### jumpjack

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• Posts: 3
##### Dark matter, dark energy... or just dark formulas???
« Reply #5 on: 31/12/2007 12:39:57 »
A body with negative mass would always violate the conservation of energy when placed near bodies with positive mass.
any formula to explain this?

#### The Naked Scientists Forum

##### Dark matter, dark energy... or just dark formulas???
« Reply #5 on: 31/12/2007 12:39:57 »