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Author Topic: Robo-Breakthrough?  (Read 10644 times)

Offline Senseless

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Robo-Breakthrough?
« on: 12/08/2004 06:59:54 »
I thought of an idea once, and i wanna know if this could be a breakthrough or not.

If in trying to make artificial intelligence simulated best, could you use the very internet as a model?

Take a search engine for example, if i want to find a cure for some sort of rare disease i type in the keywords and search through possible matches.

Dont you remember playing the game where somebody askes you to think of the first word that comes to your mind after they say elephant?

If the brain is like a filing system where words are associated with other associations... in order to make artificial intelligence better we could turn artificial speach into a search engine for emotions ideas and whatnot to simulate possible tone of voice subject matter and all that stuff and in a database that is as huge as a fair sized search engine and as smart, a robot could carry on an extensive conversation with somebody using that.

The trick would be to set every topic into a specific file containing its own artificial emotion and predisposition, then throw in the search engine to make possible choices and then corrospond them to the predisposed reactions and then take the response that is made and store it back into the computer in data showing how the emotion played out and then store that information again as strickly an upgraded emotional data to be used again for further responses.

Greg Badalian


 

Offline Senseless

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Re: Robo-Breakthrough?
« Reply #1 on: 12/08/2004 07:08:18 »
One more thing...

An ugraded emotion would create the evolution of a unique personality. With the help of a search engine brain, the files would need and i mean need to simulate self awareness by scanning non stop.

Some scanning would be done as a highlight of the lower scannings findings...whatever seems more stimulating from the master scanner for any given situation

The lower search engines will search speach...the mild tones of voice changes, the way it might sound funny, girlish, slangish, lispish, masculine and such.

The biggest trick is this. Multi scanners controlled by higher master scanners, A main filing system that stores associations. And last, Simulated emotions that create the master configuration that directs all the scanners though letting the scanners indirectly change the emotion so it remains perfectly appropriate.



Greg Badalian
 

Offline Senseless

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Re: Robo-Breakthrough?
« Reply #2 on: 12/08/2004 07:11:43 »
I was gonna say one more thing but forgot...

This will be the united states of america!!!! inside of a robot!

See, the government is the ruler, but the ruler is elected by the people the ruler rules.

To make a robot work... you need a master search engine thing to rule, but also you need that search engine to be ruled by all the many who knows how many... hundreds? to rule it like an election day every minute! Thus the emotions will flow like a river or a melody of a song that shifts emotions mathamatically with notes places at perfect mathamatically intervals.

Greg Badalian
 

Offline Senseless

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Re: Robo-Breakthrough?
« Reply #3 on: 12/08/2004 07:18:35 »
So, you simulate self awareness by scanning non stop...

How could you make it real for the robot not just the person talking to the robot?

You cant, but thats why youd have to be wrong to think there is no God.


Greg Badalian
 

Offline qpan

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Re: Robo-Breakthrough?
« Reply #4 on: 12/08/2004 10:44:26 »
Once again, you are jumping to conclusions. Google uses a simple hashing algorithm to find suitable articles. Why would you think that this is a new breakthrough? How do you think information is stored on ANY type of computer?

If you use a search engine for a brain, then you won't achieve true intelligence. The brain is a parrallel processor and thus cannot be simulated with ANY kind of linear processor. Maybe when quantum computing technology develops in a few years, we will be able to model the brain (as quantum computing uses parrallel processing). By parallel processor, i do not mean just multiple processors such as a dual processor PC. It is far more complex than that (especially quantum computing, which takes advantage of quantum entaglement).

quote:
You cant, but thats why youd have to be wrong to think there is no God.


You love putting words into people's mouths. I do not believe that your simple statements prove anything. This is a science forum. Please keep things scientific. Nothing is certain so don't pretend that it is.

"I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it."
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Offline tweener

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Re: Robo-Breakthrough?
« Reply #5 on: 12/08/2004 13:24:44 »
Actually, Greg has a pretty good model of artificial intelligence.  I don't think it's a breakthrough because it is very similar to some other propositions that I've read, however, it is definitely something to think about.

As for simulating artifical intelligence on a linear processor, it is done all the time to some extent.  Neural networks can simulated on linear processors.  As qpan points out, it is not the same, but the processors available now are so fast that they can do all the calculations necessary for a small neural net.  Nothing approaching the human brain however - more like a roach or something.

This is science - new ideas being floated for comment.  Keep it up Greg.  We need more of this, as this forum as been somewhat stale recently.

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Offline Senseless

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Re: Robo-Breakthrough?
« Reply #6 on: 12/08/2004 18:29:11 »
well thanks tweener considering i havent read one ariticle in about 10 years on this!! and i never even graduated high school!

Greg Badalian
 

Offline Senseless

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Re: Robo-Breakthrough?
« Reply #7 on: 12/08/2004 18:37:39 »
Im not dumb by the way, i had health issues ive been struggling with.

And geez!!!! :) qpan, havent you heard of an ANALOGY? I dont know how the heck a search engine works and dont wanna know, i just know what it does! and i used what i know of what it does a... aaa. uhhh...hmmmm.. ANALOGY :)

Greg Badalian
 

Offline qpan

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Re: Robo-Breakthrough?
« Reply #8 on: 13/08/2004 09:34:11 »
Ok, sorry, i suppose not everyone does know how a search engine works. But i must also add that there are ususally simple (scientific) explanations for most things, and for those things which there are not yet simple explanations, we have yet to understand them - it is not necessarily down to an act of god.

I suppose i'm lucky as i've had so much exposure to science. I see everything in a completely different light to a non-scientist, and sometimes take other people's knowledge in science for granted. However, my understanding of science means that I can make sense of why most things happen, so there doesn't seem an urgent need to invent some superior being as the cause.

"I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it."
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Offline Senseless

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Re: Robo-Breakthrough?
« Reply #9 on: 14/08/2004 03:03:32 »
hey, come on now.... you arent THAT smart... see listen

God DID create this stuff..and just because you are CLOSER to the CREATION than most people, doenst mean that you are SO close that the fact that it was CREATED is null and void.

When you go to a restaurant and order something ur not quite sure what it is... you feel unsure about it... when you put in your mouth u taste the flavor and you really get to know the food, then you swallow it and it becomes you.

Science to you is like that food, you feel like since science has become you, you dont have to in the end pay for it!

WHen you order food, and you eat it, and it becomes you, you cant just walk out of the place, you have to pay.

You cant take gods CREATION for granted because its become you and when you die feel you wont have to pay for it

people really did cook your food and make complex recipe's and you should and ought to pay them for it.

God made DNA and LOVE and you should pay God for it with YOUR love and every last code of your DNA. and if you dont, God will make you wash dishes for eternity.

Greg Badalian
 

Offline qpan

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Re: Robo-Breakthrough?
« Reply #10 on: 14/08/2004 10:20:04 »
God didn't necessarily have to create DNA. All it takes is one strand to be formed by fluke, and due to the self replicating nature of DNA, many more strands could be formed and so evolution began.

Its all fair and well thinking that there is this mysterious superior being. But i think your last sentence:
quote:
God made DNA and LOVE and you should pay God for it with YOUR love and every last code of your DNA. and if you dont, God will make you wash dishes for eternity.


is a pretty good reason NOT to believe in god.

If he's so god damnned mysterious and no-one's every seen him, how come we have a couple of thousand pages of cr*p in the form of the bible, telling us to behave or be "eternally damnned" in hell? The bible was written by people - what makes you think it is the word of god?

Hell, why would god be able to understand a human language at all and be able to tell things to these "prophets"? (And profit they did indeed i bet).

I'm not taking god's creation for granted. As a scientist, i think of reasons why all these things happen. You, on the other hand, do take creation for granted if you just choose to accept that god made it all by waving his magic wand.

Of all the things in this world, religion is the biggest killer of man, being the cause of countless wars. It is completely unnecessary, misleading, intolerant of other religions and simply a way of gaining power over a mass of people.

I don't owe god anything - i didn't ask him to be put on this earth. I do however, owe it to the human race to at least acknowledge the laws of physics and think about the reason for why things happen, rather than invent reasons with no proof. Else i'd call myself a priest rather than a scientist.


"I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it."
-Edgar Allan Poe
« Last Edit: 14/08/2004 10:21:33 by qpan »
 

Offline Senseless

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Re: Robo-Breakthrough?
« Reply #11 on: 14/08/2004 18:38:36 »
You have anger, you cant back up your beliefs with science, science doesnt back up your beliefs, they back up truth

I never said you have to behave...i said you have to love

the oposite of love is hate

if you hate God God doesnt send you to hell because he hates you back

God sends you to hell because if you dont love god, your already sending GOd to hell in your heart and God being truely a SUPREME being doesnt want to feel that aguish so therefor he sends you to hell because he simply doesnt have any place for you in his creation and all hell is is the oposite of creation where and where you CHOOSE to put your heart.

"You dont have to behave to go to heaven, you just have to stop believing bull that you WANT to make sense, DNA IS COMPLEX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! even ONE LOWSY STRAND!!! dont be foolish, and i mean that, i mean, I MEAN THAT, I F(*&CKI"NG MEAN THAT~! dont be foolish DNA IS COMPLEX and when you answer god when you die, he might say qipan, come on qipan you of ALL people love science, and why dont you love the creator of science? Im not sure if your japaneze or not, but all these things like samsung and toyota nisan and stuff, you WANT america to know its all asian made because that makes you feel proud, GOD IS JUST LIKE YOU! he just wants us to know, so he sent JESUS down to talk to man... THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE SAW JESU"S AND JESU"S IS GOD!! so please please please dont be foolish, jesus left the shroud of turin for us, and satan made some stupid evidence that is so stupid your heart has to be so dark to believe it, GOD ... IS ... REAL... and i want to spend eternity in heaven with you because you have a great mind, and you should appreciate Gods even greater beautiful love - worthy mind. Your dna even down to the lsat strand is more complex than every one of your most nobal thoughts combined and now you wanna be self rightous? dont. god is the only rightous thing, with him i should burn in hell, but i love him, i dont have to, i can be like you, i can sin and not care... i still sin, its not about behavior. its about me feeling like god is a loved one period.. just that god is someone i love and if i sin, i only feel bad because i love god so much, because especially all this true science, and ive read about science im not a scared god believer when it comes to hardcore science, so you shouldnt be either. Love him, he does, he really does love you.

Greg Badalian
 

Offline OldMan

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Re: Robo-Breakthrough?
« Reply #12 on: 16/08/2004 04:14:00 »
quote:
Originally posted by Senseless

the oposite of love is hate

if you hate God God doesnt send you to hell because he hates you back



Just because someone doesn't love something doesn't mean they hate it, there is a middle ground but more to the point if qpan doesn't believe in God he cannot hate her/him/it.

I had this debate with you one other time greg but can't you accept that different people have different beliefs and let them have it without trying to convince them to believe the same as you?

Tim
 

Offline Senseless

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Re: Robo-Breakthrough?
« Reply #13 on: 16/08/2004 06:53:24 »
It is so obvious God created this beautiful sunset, our eyes and ears and our love for family and friends and everything...if you dont love God with it being so obvious..even if u use a 21 century reason ... "he doesnt exist" its still hate. I can tell my parents i never want to see them again and they will they i hate them...if i tell them i dont want them to exist...i think they will reallllyyyyy think I hate THEM! so when u answer to god, he will ask... why did you hate me?

Greg Badalian
 

Offline qpan

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Re: Robo-Breakthrough?
« Reply #14 on: 16/08/2004 10:42:07 »
Lol. I'm not telling god he doesn't exist. If he did exist, and i told him that, then that would count as hate. If there is no god, and i say that he doesn't exist, then i'm simply stating a fact.

If you want to believe in god, then feel free to - I don't wish to convert you. I have lots of good friends who are also very religious - they don't try to convert me so you shouldn't either.

However, as we are having a debate, i have simply put my opinions forward to you. I haven't said a single thing that can be totally proved or disproved, but what i have said does make sense to me and an awful lot of other people too.

I'm not going to argue that love is a strong feeling, but i will argue that god did not create love. Love isn't magic, although it can feel like magic. Like many of our feelings, love is caused my hormones released via various glands such as the pituitary gland at the base of our brain.

Basing arguements on love and hate is like basing them on good and evil. With science, i can back up my arguements with facts. I can say - ooh, this particle exists because i can detect it on my instruments. It is not up to science to prove that god doesn't exist. Science has never been good at proving non-existence. Its therefore up to others to prove that god does exist.

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Offline GOD

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Re: Robo-Breakthrough?
« Reply #15 on: 16/08/2004 13:04:36 »
Oh God.........!!!..http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.shtml

I am GOD..You are Not..I don't exist !!
 

Offline Exodus

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Re: Robo-Breakthrough?
« Reply #16 on: 16/08/2004 13:43:47 »
Its going to be another one of those threads! lol
 

Offline qpan

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Re: Robo-Breakthrough?
« Reply #17 on: 16/08/2004 13:48:22 »
quote:
Originally posted by GOD

Oh God.........!!!..http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.shtml

I am GOD..You are Not..I don't exist !!



Go on Senseless- argue your way outta that one! I'd like an excuse for every point please!

"I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it."
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Offline Senseless

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Re: Robo-Breakthrough?
« Reply #18 on: 16/08/2004 23:03:52 »
those are not biblical inconsistances...especially if you have heard of bible code...which is a science in itself... anybody can take a verse out of context...the only way to see a true inconsistancy is to take a verse and put it into context and if it in context it is wrong then you have a point, so just using two verses at a time with no conception of context is just to make your sins feel better before you go to hell.

Greg Badalian
 

Offline Senseless

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Re: Robo-Breakthrough?
« Reply #19 on: 16/08/2004 23:15:25 »
to prove you guys what im saying is simple truth here are two examples... and dont think im gonna go threw all of that nonsense like im gonna do now...i can take the whole new york times and make the facts of their stories SEEM inconsistant if i take it out of context.

GE 12:7, 17:1, 18:1, 26:2, 32:30, EX 3:16, 6:2-3, 24:9-11, 33:11, NU 12:7-8, 14:14, JB 42:5, AM 7:7-8, 9:1 God is seen.
EX 33:20, JN 1:18, 1JN 4:12 God is not seen. No one can see God's face and live. No one has ever seen him.

GE 10:5, 20, 31 There were many languages before the Tower of Babel.
GE 11:1 There was only one language before the Tower of Babel.



God is not seen, THE FATHER!!!!!!!!! you fools, jesus is also GOD!!! so the fact that god is seen is PROOF jesus IS GOD and you should repent and pray to him. :)

sorry qipan, but this doesnt scare me at all.

Just because a verse summerizes like a thesis what happens later on doesnt mean that it makes what does indeed happen..LATER on invalid.

It simplu said these people went off and had many languages...and they did PROVED!~! not contradicted but proved by further reading!

so youd have to think of this... either the people who wrote the bible were mentally retarded!! or you are for making nonsense seem clever.

THe bible code proves that GOD HIMSELF wrote most of the bible threw men if you study it. Words are mathamatically provable to be in codes in intervals of the code...but even if u cant believe this, believe that i could make sense out of EVERY one of your so called "inconsistancies..." like i did those two, i just dont have the time. anything more?


Greg Badalian
 

Offline Ultima

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Re: Robo-Breakthrough?
« Reply #20 on: 16/08/2004 23:17:50 »
Errrm aside from the God flame war... i agree with Tweener nearly all of Artificial Intelligence is to do with searching things... obviously as intelligently and efficiently as you can. There's a bit more to it but not much :D . In addition Google is fairly intelligent, it looks at the context of the words you have given it to try and judge a meaning to your search e.g. Roses House and House Roses one might be a search for a building and the other a type of flower.... obviously Google isnít that good but its a bit more than just a hash to look up the words across the whole of the net that would take to much time, so its more efficient to guess at what the user is trying to search for first. Check out those examples they bring up different results. In Google obviously thatís also because its treating both words as a whole too, but try typing in a whole sentence; then change the grammar.

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Offline qpan

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Re: Robo-Breakthrough?
« Reply #21 on: 17/08/2004 09:55:07 »
Yes, granted that google is more complex than just a hashing algorithm. But all the donkey work is done by hashing algorithms - you of all people should know that hashing is the best search algorithm for large databases!

"I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it."
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Offline tweener

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Re: Robo-Breakthrough?
« Reply #22 on: 18/08/2004 02:42:33 »
Artifical Intelligence is not necessarily  based on searching, but it is based on many simple actions working together to make some "emergent behavior".  Basically, the behavior of the system is much more complex than any one piece of the system can account for.  The very best example is the human brain.  No single neuron is capable of much, but putting several billion of them together in certain ways (complete randomness won't work) makes for the most complex system in the known universe.

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Offline neilep

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Re: Robo-Breakthrough?
« Reply #23 on: 18/08/2004 23:42:07 »
I know this link has nothing to do with your discussions, but if you have broadband, or are prepared to wait for it to download via a dial up connection, this is a dirct link to a 6mb( over 3 minutes) clip of some incredible dancing  Sony robots...enjoy  http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2003/1218/sony_06.wmv

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Offline Quantumcat

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Re: Robo-Breakthrough?
« Reply #24 on: 20/08/2004 15:11:46 »
Senseless - we are not trying to force our beliefs on you, and it's quite rude to try to force your beliefs on us. It shows you disrespect another person and consider the conclusions they've drawn as unworthy, and that the way you think is better than someone else's. You can't do that until you've actually been in someone else's mind. If you want to believe in God, go ahead, we're not going to try to convince you otherwise. All the others have done is try to tell you their own opinions and to defend themselves from your attacks, and haven't forced you to agree to what they believe - the opposite of which is what you're doing to us.

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Re: Robo-Breakthrough?
« Reply #24 on: 20/08/2004 15:11:46 »

 

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