The Naked Scientists

The Naked Scientists Forum

Author Topic: The darkness and the light....  (Read 12076 times)

sooyeah

  • Guest
The darkness and the light....
« on: 07/01/2008 20:01:48 »
It has been suggested that evil is the absence of good, as darkness is the absence of light.

I have a different take on this, darkness is surely the obstruction of light.

Shadow is not the absence of light but actually the result of something getting in the way of the light.

So following that line:- If We are in the end, all Gods children, it follows that we all have the light of God within us.

I therefore suggest that it is negativity that works to blocks the light of God.

Negativity in the form of Hate, anger, greed, envy, arrogance and so forth.

It then suggests that evil is actually the obstruction of good, for first it is obstructed in ourselves and then as a result of that obstruction, people are lead to obstruct others.

Which is why I believe that the 'Circumcision of the heart' is probably the greatest covenant.

So rather than people trying to fill holes in themselves, they are actually trying to cover up statues(for want of a better metaphor). 

Discuss
« Last Edit: 07/01/2008 20:12:37 by JOLLY »


 

sooyeah

  • Guest
The darkness and the light....
« Reply #1 on: 07/01/2008 20:14:45 »
As a addition, People that try to cover over their statues generally end up making them bigger.
 

sooyeah

  • Guest
The darkness and the light....
« Reply #2 on: 08/01/2008 01:47:11 »
To me, these statues if thats what you want to call them, are as individual as each of us and are formed in many ways;
The friend that betrayed you, the bully at school, the lover that wouldn't commit, the person that hurt a member of your family, the person that hurt you, the fact that you made a mistake, or didn't do enough, the denial of a reality you just don't like.
The reasons are as endless as the things they create. Maybe you could call them skeletons, but they are certainly not dead while you carry them around.
 
And as our problems and issues are often as unique as ourselves, so many times are the solutions, it's to me finding that solution and the removal of internal negativity that gos with it, that constitutes the act of 'circumcising the heart'.

Be good and be happy, I am in the end only trying to express how I see it.

JOLLY
 

Offline Batroost

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 276
  • There's no such thing as a dirty atom!
    • View Profile
The darkness and the light....
« Reply #3 on: 17/01/2008 19:27:09 »
Quote
So following that line:- If We are in the end, all Gods children, it follows that we all have the light of God within us.

Alternatively, there is no god and you have to make the effort to find your own answers...
 

sooyeah

  • Guest
The darkness and the light....
« Reply #4 on: 27/01/2008 19:23:36 »
Quote
So following that line:- If We are in the end, all Gods children, it follows that we all have the light of God within us.

Alternatively, there is no god and you have to make the effort to find your own answers...

You are free to think for yourself, so to a degree this is true...

But I did realise something, that actually it´s not the absence or the obstruction  of the light; it is the ignorance of the light.

suffering leads to obstruction leads to ignorance leads to ignorant action, this action we often, but not always, call sin.

The light is the truth.

I also realise that this is what Jesus came to say, "That God loves us" that love is the truth.

Jesus came for the sick, but he is not talking about the ill, he is talking about the spiritually sick; Who are the spiritually sick? The racist, the hateful, the greedy, the bad people, the sinner. Why? because it is their very ignorance of the truth that makes them sick.
That is to say that these are the very people that need the most love.

Jesus is not saying that we should treat others as we wish to be treated, He is saying that we should treat others as God wants them to be treated, that we should love them, not just our friends and family, but that we should love everyone, even our enemies. 

So really I think to serve Jesus is to serve humanity, and as Jesus came for the sick, so must those that follow him.

Looking back at the people that have hurt me, I can honestly say that I love them more than ever, Why? Because more than ever I see how much they need that love.

I can see however that some people will have a problem with this, they will say  things like "I could never, love a person who did that or this, I could never love that person that hurt me" But I would argue that it is the pain they feel which stops them, and that when Jesus asks you to "turn the other cheek" it is in part to stop the pain entering you.
That with that pain many themselves become sick, and that Jesus is saying let it go, be free of it and Love.
But also look at it another way, for what did Jesus say on the cross? He said "forgive them" Why? because he loved them.

I also see that many people will say "how could God love me after what I have done?" I ask how could God not? Amazing grace!

It appears to me that the people that run around hurting others are themselves trying to communicate, they are saying "I am in pain, I am not happy"- Why did Jesus come for the sick? Because the sick need more love than anyone. Saint Paul is the greatest example of this: Timothy 1 13-16.   

Really I do feel that if you want to follow God you merely have to follow your heart, and that all Jesus is really asking is that as you walk through your life that you love those you met and help those you can, it is not so hard.

There are so many ways to express love, friendship, honesty, kindness; They say one of the greatest acts is to call a tyrant a tyrant, and I now see so very clearly that that act to, is an act of love, not just for the people but also for the tyrant.

Even if you are not a friend to Jesus, Jesus most certainly is a friend to you, and if you let him he will help you.
« Last Edit: 27/01/2008 19:36:34 by JOLLY »
 

sooyeah

  • Guest
The darkness and the light....
« Reply #5 on: 07/02/2008 13:33:17 »
I would ask you to read Acts 26.5 and compare it with Timothy 1. 13-16

Here`s the reality: that if you love everyone, you can persecute no-one. For how can you if you love them? So a follower of Christ is a person who does not condemn anymore, He does not judge, instead he works to help the sinner and bring them back to God.

God payed you when he made you; Think about it, you are here, you exist, you are reading this and understand it(maybe not completely) to a degree, you are free and God made you so- The glory.

They say that to serve Jesus is to suffer and that that suffering is a joy, the point that good or bad life is a blessing.



 

sooyeah

  • Guest
The darkness and the light....
« Reply #6 on: 16/02/2008 13:12:43 »
Romans 10.4 and 13.9-10

There is no law, but love.

1 Corinthians 2.15

Judge, not to condemn but to care, not to hinder but to heal, not to harm but to help. All judgement must come from love.

The game:

10 men stand in a firring squad to shoot a man, only one has a live round the rest have blanks, all fire the man dies- Who is responsible for his death? Answer: They all are, but also the man who thought up the game and the man who ordered it, and if you do not understand why I pity your ignorance.

We must understand that the sinner is a slave, and the best example I can think of is the drug addict, the sinner sits there and says "you godly cannot do this", but the godly smile back and say, "sorry but you cant not do it, you are trapped in a cage you cannot even see". Freedom in many ways is control and the sinner is not in control.

Romans 14.17 Peace and joy, peace and joy.

Mother Teresa said "joy is the symptom of a heart filled with love"

So if you should ever meet Darth Vader, you can stretch out you hand and say in a Jordy accent "Darth, you don't know the Joy of the light side of the force"

With one act do we keep all the commandments, do we serve god and humanity, in this same act we find peace and happiness, what is this great act?- LOVE!

With love we do not sin, with love are we truly selfless.

God bless you all.

« Last Edit: 16/04/2008 16:35:11 by JOLLY »
 

Offline Soul Surfer

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3345
  • keep banging the rocks together
    • View Profile
    • ian kimber's web workspace
The darkness and the light....
« Reply #7 on: 17/02/2008 11:46:50 »
Speking as A scientist, an atheist and a regular church goer we have here some very good examples as to why the communication gap between religion and science is so great that it is almost unbridgable.

here is something I wrote about 15 years ago that looks at the problem.
The language is not my usual scientific language on these pages but in the form of religious metaphor


Technical Terms

One of the most common reasons why ordinary people reject explanations given by scientists is that they can't (or don't want to) understand the technical terms involved. As a scientist often put in this position it can be extremely frustrating after carefully describing something quite complex to somebody. I try to explain any technical terms I use in ways that they would be totally familiar in everyday life only to find that they have totally "switched off" at the first mention of the term and are not listening to what I am trying to say.


The same is true of religion. In some cases the problem is even more insidious because the "technical terms" are words used in everyday life with a special religious context. Many people today switch off even more strongly the moment a religious technical term appears and immediately classify that person as a narrow minded bigot or some other equally derogative expression. There is also a common feeling that as religion seems to have been the cause of much persecution in the past and appears to be one of the prime movers of many wars of today. They would say that they do honestly want to live in a loving society but refuse to join any religion because of the many sins that are committed in its name.


Unfortunately for us religious insiders our technical terms are things we love and carry far greater meaning and we want to explain this joy to others in a way that they will understand and appreciate.


How then can we get past this impasse? Some fundamentalists would have us go "back to the book" and look for God in exceptional events. They continually try to work miracles and look for the "hand of God" in coincidences. This approach can be very inspiring and comforting but I feel that it is as bad as some scientists who see space for the "hand of God" in the gaps and uncertainties of quantum mechanics. What I would like to do is far simpler and more "common-sense" than either of these extreme approaches. Both of which are dominated by more technical terms.


Let us start with nothing more than simple reality and the "book of nature" try to forget the past and don't worry about the future for the moment and concentrate on now. What do we see? We see a wonderful and complex world that we can touch live in and enjoy and an even more wonderful and complex part of the universe that we can see and measure. Our simple science shows us that it is essential that plants and animals are born grow change and die. During this process they become food for each other in a never-ending chain. We all know this from childhood. Applying a little more science we see that there is a general tendency to an irregular sort of order and an evolutionary increase in complexity. Our observations of the farthest reaches of the universe bear this out.


This is the normal state of affairs and is by definition good. Why should we want for more? We must learn to recognise and accept the love involved in the lamb or the lettuce that is sacrificed to give us food. We must similarly accept our individual final sacrifices for we must all die for life to continue it's as simple as that. "But" you ask me "what has this to do with Christianity?" I say "what do we celebrate in the Eucharist but this process in a symbolic form".


My science tells me that for God to know all that exists in the universe there is no way that God and the universe can ever be separated so we might as well say that they are one and the same thing. The various structures that we are aware of within this universe are the offspring of the evolution of God and life on this planet is a particularly rare and precious one. Our ability to perceive and comment on it is probably even more special. The knowledge of this and its survival is a heavy responsibility that we cannot avoid. If we can understand this simple message and get it over to other people avoiding the technical terms that will cause them to ignore it. We may then be able to remove the beams from our own eyes and the chips from our shoulders before we start to consider the motes in the eyes of the rest of creation.

 

sooyeah

  • Guest
The darkness and the light....
« Reply #8 on: 15/04/2008 19:43:03 »
Ok Mr Soul surfer I am actually going to read this post of yours but I bet it has nothing to do with Gods love and light, being obstructed, ok here we go....

Speking as A scientist, an atheist and a regular church goer we have here some very good examples as to why the communication gap between religion and science is so great that it is almost unbridgable.

Well nothing about Gods love there, would like to add that there are plenty of scientists that believe in god, and I'm sure they don't have any problems talking to themselves. :)


here is something I wrote about 15 years ago that looks at the problem.
The language is not my usual scientific language on these pages but in the form of religious metaphor


Technical Terms

One of the most common reasons why ordinary people reject explanations given by scientists is that they can't (or don't want to) understand the technical terms involved. As a scientist often put in this position it can be extremely frustrating after carefully describing something quite complex to somebody. I try to explain any technical terms I use in ways that they would be totally familiar in everyday life only to find that they have totally "switched off" at the first mention of the term and are not listening to what I am trying to say.

It could be how you tell it, and I would argue that often using long complex words to describe something generally, just makes it more complex, as a teacher surely it's on you to help the student understand, sounds to me like you fail and then blame them. The person that truly understands something, can think of all kinds of ways to explain it to others, if they don't understand one way, you can show them another, metaphor, analogy etc etc.

The same is true of religion. In some cases the problem is even more insidious because the "technical terms" are words used in everyday life with a special religious context. Many people today switch off even more strongly the moment a religious technical term appears and immediately classify that person as a narrow minded bigot or some other equally derogative expression.

There is also a common feeling that as religion seems to have been the cause of much persecution in the past and appears to be one of the prime movers of many wars of today. They would say that they do honestly want to live in a loving society but refuse to join any religion because of the many sins that are committed in its name.

Well religion generally promotes peace, fanatics have used bits of religious messages to promote conflict, but again they are not promoting, in my opinion, the full and therefore the correct message. Besides, war is and always will be, an economic adventure.

Unfortunately for us religious insiders our technical terms are things we love and carry far greater meaning and we want to explain this joy to others in a way that they will understand and appreciate.

How then can we get past this impasse? Some fundamentalists would have us go "back to the book" and look for God in exceptional events. They continually try to work miracles and look for the "hand of God" in coincidences. This approach can be very inspiring and comforting but I feel that it is as bad as some scientists who see space for the "hand of God" in the gaps and uncertainties of quantum mechanics. What I would like to do is far simpler and more "common-sense" than either of these extreme approaches. Both of which are dominated by more technical terms.

Let us start with nothing more than simple reality and the "book of nature" try to forget the past and don't worry about the future for the moment and concentrate on now. What do we see?

A computer screen :) that's a joke,(in no way, do I wish to belittle your post, I just jump on a joke when I see one, nothing personnel) Moving on.....

We see a wonderful and complex world that we can touch live in and enjoy and an even more wonderful and complex part of the universe that we can see and measure. Our simple science shows us that it is essential that plants and animals are born grow change and die. During this process they become food for each other in a never-ending chain. We all know this from childhood. Applying a little more science we see that there is a general tendency to an irregular sort of order and an evolutionary increase in complexity. Our observations of the farthest reaches of the universe bear this out.


This is the normal state of affairs and is by definition good. Why should we want for more? We must learn to recognise and accept the love involved in the lamb or the lettuce that is sacrificed to give us food.

Most people that work with animals already feel this way, I would say.
 
We must similarly accept our individual final sacrifices for we must all die for life to continue it's as simple as that.

Death is a natural process, not a sacrifice, but we do need to learn to except it.

"But" you ask me "what has this to do with Christianity?" I say "what do we celebrate in the Eucharist but this process in a symbolic form".

Sorry not true, the Eucharist celebrates the resurrection of Christ, and the afterlife, actually more than that, it´s done to remember him, as he said "do this to remember me". That is different to, death giving way to new life on the physical plain- that is a Pagan notion really.

My science tells me that for God to know all that exists in the universe there is no way that God and the universe can ever be separated so we might as well say that they are one and the same thing. The various structures that we are aware of within this universe are the offspring of the evolution of God and life on this planet is a particularly rare and precious one. Our ability to perceive and comment on it is probably even more special. The knowledge of this and its survival is a heavy responsibility that we cannot avoid.

I completely agree, trouble is really, we have been avoiding it.

If we can understand this simple message and get it over to other people avoiding the technical terms that will cause them to ignore it. We may then be able to remove the beams from our own eyes and the chips from our shoulders before we start to consider the motes in the eyes of the rest of creation.


I agree we need to look after humanity, life and the planet, but that solution really has to be a sustainable one, for a destructive and creative cycle could, if not kept in check, destroy everything.
There is a beauty in everything, which the fire ignores, really a solution to the cycle is needed.

Funny actually, I realised that should an alien race ever turn up here, it is far more likely to be a peaceful race, simply because if a race doesn't learn to live sustainably it won't sustain itself, a race could move to other planets but that doesn't address the cause of it's problems and again at some point in the future it would face the same problems again; eventually, that race would have to learn, ways of dealing with the many issues justly, injustice is also unsustainable and to my mind, often promotes that horrid cycle that could kill us all; The foundation of rationality is consideration.

Thanks for the post soul surfer.
« Last Edit: 17/04/2008 17:16:26 by JOLLY »
 

sooyeah

  • Guest
The darkness and the light....
« Reply #9 on: 16/04/2008 16:46:03 »
Ignorance is the real enemy, I feel.
 

sooyeah

  • Guest
The darkness and the light....
« Reply #10 on: 17/05/2008 19:50:46 »
Here is a reading list hope you like it, funny six months I know, but it's me birthday today so I have been let loose. :)

Proverbs  8.22

Genesis   1.2

Wisdom    7.25

Genesis   2.7

Proverbs  8.31

Isaiah    42.5, 32.15

Ezekiel   37.9

Wisdom    7.20-21, 9.17, 7.24

Proverbs  8.36

Why are we all gods children? Because that breath is in us all.

And I have realised that the real promise of faith is, to truly understand what it means to live.

The more human you become, the more you reflect and understand the image in which you were created.
 

Offline Madidus_Scientia

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1451
    • View Profile
The darkness and the light....
« Reply #11 on: 18/05/2008 16:04:36 »
Here is a reading list for you -
Richard Dawkins - The God Delusion
 

Offline socratus

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 329
    • View Profile
The darkness and the light....
« Reply #12 on: 23/05/2008 14:05:56 »
Ignorance is the real enemy, I feel.
==================================================
We live in modern scientific world and I think
the science will purify the religion of the “dross”.
I think the science will prove the truth
of the religion's  base.
===========..
Speaking  scientifically:
What is " The darkness and the light......."
On my opinion:
The darkness is the Vacuum: T=0K.
The light is the Light Quanta.
=========================..
Now we are in a "special kind of intelligence
 is variably called  schizophrenia. "
What is the reason of this illness?
The reason is hidden in abstract thinking about :
abstract ideal gas, abstract black body,
abstract inertial systems, abstract virtual particles,
abstract zoo of antiparticles, abstract 
      Schrödinger’s cat in a dark matter ,
abstract  4D, 5D, 11D, 27D ,  and etc......
Is there a medicine for this illness?
Of course.
On the one recipe is written " Vacuum: T=0K",
On the other recipe is written " Light quanta".
If we don’t take this medicine our human society
will remain in the state of "schizophrenia". Save us God.
=========..
The secret of words 'God', 'soul ', 'religion', ‘ Existence’,
'dualism of consciousness', 'human being'  is hidden 
 in the “Theory of Light quanta”.
 =================..
An ignoramus will not know,
a fool won't understand.
/ Maybe from: Psalm 92 / .
 

sooyeah

  • Guest
The darkness and the light....
« Reply #13 on: 05/06/2008 08:56:44 »
Here is a reading list for you -
Richard Dawkins - The God Delusion

Read it thanks, well most of it.  He does make a few good points, about where religion strays anyway. Dont forget that even Dawkins calls himself an 'atheist for Jesus'. I might write a book actually called 'The Nothing Delusion'.

Ignorance is the real enemy, I feel.
==================================================
We live in modern scientific world and I think
the science will purify the religion of the “dross”.
I think the science will prove the truth
of the religion's  base.
===========..
Speaking  scientifically:
What is " The darkness and the light......."
On my opinion:
The darkness is the Vacuum: T=0K.
The light is the Light Quanta.
=========================..
Now we are in a "special kind of intelligence
 is variably called  schizophrenia. "
What is the reason of this illness?
The reason is hidden in abstract thinking about :
abstract ideal gas, abstract black body,
abstract inertial systems, abstract virtual particles,
abstract zoo of antiparticles, abstract 
      Schrödinger’s cat in a dark matter ,
abstract  4D, 5D, 11D, 27D ,  and etc......
Is there a medicine for this illness?
Of course.
On the one recipe is written " Vacuum: T=0K",
On the other recipe is written " Light quanta".
If we don’t take this medicine our human society
will remain in the state of "schizophrenia". Save us God.
=========..
The secret of words 'God', 'soul ', 'religion', ‘ Existence’,
'dualism of consciousness', 'human being'  is hidden 
 in the “Theory of Light quanta”.
 =================..
An ignoramus will not know,
a fool won't understand.
/ Maybe from: Psalm 92 / .


Thanks dude always love your posts, hugs.
« Last Edit: 11/06/2008 19:02:08 by JOLLY »
 

sooyeah

  • Guest
The darkness and the light....
« Reply #14 on: 05/06/2008 09:04:01 »
Here I wrote a little poem:
                            FLOWERS OF THANKS

Faith is the foundation
on which you build
a house of love.

A porch and hall of forgiveness
a kitchen of generosity
a larder full of charity
a livingroom of kindness
a study to place your nuggets of wisdom
with bedrooms full of peace and joy;
Never forgetting that fear,
can stop you building more.

And in the garden
you plant flowers of thanks
and trees of hope
so that one day
doves of love
may come and nest in them.

You might want to extend your study
or widen up your hall
or add an extra bedroom
because the others can't hold it all.

Just be sure to know
before you start
that whatever you build
should come from the heart.
 

Offline Karen W.

  • Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *****
  • Posts: 31653
  • Thanked: 5 times
  • "come fly with me"
    • View Profile
The darkness and the light....
« Reply #15 on: 05/06/2008 10:20:16 »
Jolly that is very beautiful indeed.. Thank you for posting it.. Nice to see you!
 

sooyeah

  • Guest
The darkness and the light....
« Reply #16 on: 09/06/2008 13:12:07 »
True justice bring peace to all parties in the noblest way.

If I ever made a statue to represent 'Justice', it would be Jesus holding a scale and a torch. 

Ignorance is torture.
 

sooyeah

  • Guest
The darkness and the light....
« Reply #17 on: 09/06/2008 13:56:56 »
                The promise of faith and humanities mission.

When the messiah comes will he find any faith on Earth? Or will everyone have fifteen locks on the door and a shotgun under the bed?

You may find it strange, but the closer I get to Jesus, the more I'm just here.
You see I set out to follow God, not in search of a prize, I answered my call purely and simply because I love God and everyone else, and that was enough for me, but then I came to find that God gave me a huge prize anyway, maybe that's why, maybe it's not, only God can say. The truest way to serve God, is to serve others, that's always what God calls people to do.

St Fransis said:

Lord make me an instrument of your peace
Where there is hatred, let me sow love
where there is injury, pardon
where there is discord, unity
where there is doubt, faith
where there is error, truth
where there is dispair, hope
where there is sadness, joy
where there is darkness, light

O divine master, grant that I may not so much seek
to be consoled, as to console
to be understood, as to understand
to be loved, as to love.

---------

And what I see is that, in so many ways, the real promise of faith is to truly and completely in the wholeness of your being, to know what it means to live.
Define life: The presence of God. So in many ways the closer to God you get the more alive you are.
God offers humanity life in the truest form, a life with freedom. What freedom? Well, freedom from fear, from hatred, from envy, from arrogance; From evil.
For as there is no fear in love, there is no evil either.
And what's more in that state of freedom and self-control, you have peace and joy with everyone and everything, and you see so clearly that it'll be alright.
A person cannot really know there own value until they see the value of everything else, and in the same way respect works- just to think of yourself, is truly to think of no one.

From the garden we fell and in the state of original punishment are we born. With the fall we lost some of the control that gave us true freedom, and we came closer to the animal kingdom. The only thing that ever separated humans from animals was the image in which we were made, and with the fall some of that image was lost.
Humanities search truly is a search for, humanity lost; the closer you get to God the more you reflect the image in which you were created.

Many men have sought enlightenment and God, some on that road have discovered a pieace of that humanity lost, and at that moment their eyes open they are 'born again' at the steps of a new spiritual road, and the further down that road they walk the more human they become.

St Fransis said as he lay dying "Brother Sun".

I think I may write a film, called 'Apocalypse Never' and right at the end of the movie the guy is going to say "The Glory, the Glory"   


Amos 5.4b 'Seek me and you shall live' 

'Let the dead bury the dead' Jesus said 

May God bless you all. For wether you like it or not, you are my brother.   
« Last Edit: 11/06/2008 19:03:58 by JOLLY »
 

sooyeah

  • Guest
The darkness and the light....
« Reply #18 on: 21/07/2008 19:20:31 »
                       Pick up your cross!

Jesus said "pick up your cross and follow me"

Now what does he mean? Remember he said this before the Crucifixion.

Well every Jew knew what a cross was, it was what the Romans nailed you to if you got out of line- really and truly it's fear.

For every Jew it was the scary tool the Romans used to keep them in line. What Jesus is saying is, do not fear, 'take your fear, do not let your fear take you' take control he is saying. There is no fear in love.

and really how can you serve God if at the most important moment you run away?

Jesus always takes his followers to the places they don't want to go. Why? because that place is the place they generally fear most. After you have been there then you can serve God fearlessly. And he is also saying that you too should be prepared to be crucified for love, for god, for humanity.

We must love everyone, as God does:

The book of Wisdom 11. 24 to 12. 2

 
« Last Edit: 21/07/2008 19:51:09 by JO-ey »
 

sooyeah

  • Guest
The darkness and the light....
« Reply #19 on: 21/07/2008 19:47:18 »
                           LORD LORD

It is not those who say to me 'Lord, Lord' who will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the person who does the will of my father in heaven. When the day comes many will say to me 'lord, lord did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work miracles in your name?'
Then I shall tell them to their faces: 'I have never known you; away from me you evil men!'

OK
1. John 14.28 'the father is greater than I' in many ways Jesus is reminding us that the God the Father is the person we should work for. Jesus and the Father are joined, Jesus is the door through which you meet God the Father, Jesus is the son who teaches you to know God the Father and to serve God the Father. Luke 18.19 and John 8. 54-55
So although Jesus and God the father are joined, the father is greater.

2. really you do nothing, the spirit does it through you.

3. Do not put yourself before God. As an example:

A priest starts a foundation after a year it's not going so well. So the priest looks around and wondering what to do, and while looking he finds out about another foundation being run by someone else which is doing very well, and the priest becomes envious of the other mans success, and so starts to spread bad rumors about the man in an attempt to undermine him.
This priest cares nothing for the good work, he wants people to see him succeed, he cares nothing for God really, he only cares about his image and he wants others to praise him and his achievements, so on seeing someone doing Gods work better then himself, he works to cut them down- and just like the men who make long prayers in public, with praise, he has his reward.
He will prophesy in Jesus name, and maybe work a few miracle's, but really he only serves himself. Acts 19. 11-17 an example.

That's one of many there are of course many other ways do to the same.

There are many more points I could make but Ill leave it to you to ponder.
 

Offline that mad man

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 724
    • View Profile
    • My music
The darkness and the light....
« Reply #20 on: 21/07/2008 22:55:06 »
Heaven.

Revelations 7:4

"And I heard the number of those sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of Israel"

12000 out of each of the 12 tribes of Israel =144000

Revelations 7:16

"They will hunger no more nor thirst any more, neither will the sun beat down upon them nor any scorching heat.17 because the lamb who is in the middle of the throne, will shepherd them and will guide them to the fountains of waters of life. And God will wipe out every tear from their eyes."

Meaning, in the final days when we are all judged the ones chosen and sealed in the book of life to go to heaven and serve God will be Jewish and that heaven is limited to that amount only.

That seems to conflict with some modern teachings and gets neglected so ill leave you to ponder on that.
 

sooyeah

  • Guest
The darkness and the light....
« Reply #21 on: 22/07/2008 12:52:43 »
                           The kingdom of heaven

The kingdom of heaven on earth- 'Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven'

When we enter into the dynamic of Jesus' life, we enter the kingdom of God. This is to say the resurrection is possible now, not just after death- "The kingdom of heaven, is close at hand" Matt. 5.20 but better still Luke 9.27

This is the place St Fransis was at his death. It is also what Buddha and Krishna and certain other wise men speak of- Enlightenment. The formless world, the Godhead etc, the real difference between all of them and Jesus is, that for them it's a final goal, it's an end. For Jesus it's a means to other ends the fruits as it were. It's the place you must be to serve God in the truest sense, that is not to say you cannot serve when not there, we serve according to our ability and our situation.

But that place Buddha and others speak of, is the same thing Jesus means when he talks of the kingdom of heaven. I do not say this to undermine these men for all have knowledge and guidance which can help us. I say it because I believe it to be the real message, Jesus was trying to give us the real difference is the position they came from, Jesus understood completely, others became aware then taught. I respect all and value all.

The kingdom of heaven- Enlightenment, I say they are the same thing, viewed in slightly different ways by all the different prophets that knew of it. John the Baptist Knew nothing of it, that is why Jesus said what he did in Matt 11.11

Give to the poor
Pick up your cross
listen to and love your God, with all your heart, your mind, your strenght
and Love your Brother as yourself.

Love everyone!

Remember when we enter into the dynamic of Jesus' life, we enter the kingdom of heaven. "Better to pull out your eye...."
 

sooyeah

  • Guest
The darkness and the light....
« Reply #22 on: 22/07/2008 14:47:24 »
Heaven.

Revelations 7:4

"And I heard the number of those sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of Israel"

12000 out of each of the 12 tribes of Israel =144000

Revelations 7:16

"They will hunger no more nor thirst any more, neither will the sun beat down upon them nor any scorching heat.17 because the lamb who is in the middle of the throne, will shepherd them and will guide them to the fountains of waters of life. And God will wipe out every tear from their eyes."

Meaning, in the final days when we are all judged the ones chosen and sealed in the book of life to go to heaven and serve God will be Jewish and that heaven is limited to that amount only.

That seems to conflict with some modern teachings and gets neglected so ill leave you to ponder on that.

Well Revelations, anyone who says they understand it are lying. Not even Jesus knows.

Here's a joke: a guy asks a saint "do you think the end time will be soon?"
"Why?" asks the saint
"oh I have this repayment thing, I was just wondering if I should bother paying it off"  ;D
 

sooyeah

  • Guest
The darkness and the light....
« Reply #23 on: 22/07/2008 19:01:36 »
My fellow servants of God,
                         Jesus calls us to serve in the world, to serve humanity, to fight for God with love; and love we must.
We must love them in the prisons
We must love then in the mental homes
We must love them in the cities
love them from the tallest skyrise to the deepest darkest valley
We must never forget that in every tyrant, in every monster, in every plutocratic nut is a human being trying to get out: They may beat us, they may poison us, invent horrific lies to discredit us, they may torture us or maybe even murder us, but we must love them back.
We must turn the other cheek and show them God cares- In many ways Jesus asks us to go to the worst to try and bring them back or to die trying.
We do not do it for fame we do not act in this way for prestige or honers; we do it because we love them, as we know God loves them.
Never forget the person who says he loves God but hates a fellow human is a lier, for how can a person love God if he hates Gods child? 1 Thessalonian 3.12

Remember Jesus came for the sick and as did he so should we. Evil men fight for their death and the death of others, we fight so that they may live; God loves them never forget that. In the end the person forgiven little, will love little.

The Godly have Chasity, the ungodly wish to dominate others, the godly respect peoples God given freedom, God made us free and wants us free. Any desire to dominate others is evil.

We must stand against injustice in all it forms but always fight with love.

Prayer, Truth, Joy, Faith, but above all love, these are our weapons. Bad people can all come back, Jesus came for them, to save them, I believe we should also.

I went through a lot to learn this, I only ask that you atleast consider it.

Your Friend

JOLIVER

We are all brothers, but some are more brothers than others.   
 

Offline livingod101

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 15
    • View Profile
The darkness and the light....
« Reply #24 on: 22/07/2008 19:42:47 »
It has been suggested that evil is the absence of good, as darkness is the absence of light.

I have a different take on this, darkness is surely the obstruction of light.

Shadow is not the absence of light but actually the result of something getting in the way of the light.

So following that line:- If We are in the end, all Gods children, it follows that we all have the light of God within us.

I therefore suggest that it is negativity that works to blocks the light of God.

Negativity in the form of Hate, anger, greed, envy, arrogance and so forth.

It then suggests that evil is actually the obstruction of good, for first it is obstructed in ourselves and then as a result of that obstruction, people are lead to obstruct others.

Which is why I believe that the 'Circumcision of the heart' is probably the greatest covenant.

So rather than people trying to fill holes in themselves, they are actually trying to cover up statues(for want of a better metaphor). 

Discuss

Jolly,

Would you be willing to consider the possibility that neither good or bad, positive or negative, yin and yang or anything which cannot be described without the help of another just do not exist.  Really how do you define good, we define good by stating something that is "not" bad and if you say tried to add "-1" with "+1" you get 0, nothing.  Consider the possibility there is nothing good or bad in the universe, there is just "what's so".  We created "good" and "bad" to create borders and define boundaries.  An example I love to use is this, have you ever watched a child play?  If you did you will notice the child knows no boundaries.  The child will run around naked, put everything in their mouth, speak their mind and will also run into a wall.  The child will fall and cry for a while and then they will get up and continue with their lives as if nothing happened.  Yet us adults we run around and run into a wall and will fall, and we will cry also, for a very long long long long long... long time.  And we will sit there and blame everything, we will blame ourselves for running into the wall, we will blame others for not stopping you, we will blame the wall it self for being there, we will blame the architect for putting up a wall, and blame everything under the sun.  And we continue to sit there and never realized that all we did is just go through a divorce... I mean run into a wall, and all we have to do is get up and continue with our lives.  Consider the possibility we are still choosing to eat the fruits from the forbidden tree of right and wrong and continue to behave like crazy people putting fig leaves all over our self for hiding the beautiful creation of God’s image.
 

The Naked Scientists Forum

The darkness and the light....
« Reply #24 on: 22/07/2008 19:42:47 »

 

SMF 2.0.10 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums
 
Login
Login with username, password and session length