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Offline that mad man

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The darkness and the light....
« Reply #25 on: 23/07/2008 02:32:47 »
Heaven.

Revelations 7:4

"And I heard the number of those sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of Israel"

12000 out of each of the 12 tribes of Israel =144000

Revelations 7:16

"They will hunger no more nor thirst any more, neither will the sun beat down upon them nor any scorching heat.17 because the lamb who is in the middle of the throne, will shepherd them and will guide them to the fountains of waters of life. And God will wipe out every tear from their eyes."

Meaning, in the final days when we are all judged the ones chosen and sealed in the book of life to go to heaven and serve God will be Jewish and that heaven is limited to that amount only.

That seems to conflict with some modern teachings and gets neglected so ill leave you to ponder on that.

Well Revelations, anyone who says they understand it are lying. Not even Jesus knows.


So, you are now saying a book of the bible is wrong and you are now judging people?

How many other scriptures are wrong then?

According to the Bible Jesus does know as he is there already and waiting for that final trumpet. No one, and I mean that, NO ONE goes, according to the Bible, no one goes to heaven until the end of time as all dead souls are in limbo until then. Its at the end of time when we will be judged so you should reflect on that. Even the unborn dead don't go as they have no souls and any one who say otherwise is wrong or cant read properly. No judgement, just reading the words.

Jesus was a Jew, a Rabbi who preached to Jews and had followers that were also Jews. He and his followers did not preach to Christians as the idea of Christianity came after his death. His disciples made sure of that and changed things to suit themselves.

Judas, for instance fulfilled God wishes. He and Jesus made sure that the prophesies were fulfilled and yet Judas, according to the Bible, was outcast and would never go the Heaven. Logically, he should be standing at Gods side for helping to bring about that destiny.

The trouble is, you will find, that in quoting religious texts you can be shot down as there are plenty of contradictions which can be pointed out.

I mean no harm Jolly, just that what you feel is not always what others feel as atheists and agnostics feel no need to propagate illusions, whereas those who believe seem to thrust their belief upon others.

Any belief in a God character is personal, and should stay that way.

Brotherhood and love is fine and should stay that way.

As a non believing Jew, I wish you happiness and love.
 

Offline Alan McDougall

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The darkness and the light....
« Reply #26 on: 23/07/2008 08:08:27 »
We only perceive light if we know darkness the argument goes in both direction and is not philosophical,

 

sooyeah

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The darkness and the light....
« Reply #27 on: 25/07/2008 21:10:49 »
We only perceive light if we know darkness the argument goes in both direction and is not philosophical,




I completely disagree the darkness can never understand the light. But the dark can't know that- not possible. There aren't so many enlightened at the top- though they think they are- hence my point.

"There's room at the top I'm telling you still, but first you must learn, how to smile as you kill" -Lennon.


It has been suggested that evil is the absence of good, as darkness is the absence of light.

I have a different take on this, darkness is surely the obstruction of light.

Shadow is not the absence of light but actually the result of something getting in the way of the light.

So following that line:- If We are in the end, all Gods children, it follows that we all have the light of God within us.

I therefore suggest that it is negativity that works to blocks the light of God.

Negativity in the form of Hate, anger, greed, envy, arrogance and so forth.

It then suggests that evil is actually the obstruction of good, for first it is obstructed in ourselves and then as a result of that obstruction, people are lead to obstruct others.

Which is why I believe that the 'Circumcision of the heart' is probably the greatest covenant.

So rather than people trying to fill holes in themselves, they are actually trying to cover up statues(for want of a better metaphor). 

Discuss

Jolly,

Would you be willing to consider the possibility that neither good or bad, positive or negative, yin and yang or anything which cannot be described without the help of another just do not exist.  Really how do you define good, we define good by stating something that is "not" bad and if you say tried to add "-1" with "+1" you get 0, nothing.  Consider the possibility there is nothing good or bad in the universe, there is just "what's so".  We created "good" and "bad" to create borders and define boundaries.  An example I love to use is this, have you ever watched a child play?  If you did you will notice the child knows no boundaries.  The child will run around naked, put everything in their mouth, speak their mind and will also run into a wall.  The child will fall and cry for a while and then they will get up and continue with their lives as if nothing happened.  Yet us adults we run around and run into a wall and will fall, and we will cry also, for a very long long long long long... long time.  And we will sit there and blame everything, we will blame ourselves for running into the wall, we will blame others for not stopping you, we will blame the wall it self for being there, we will blame the architect for putting up a wall, and blame everything under the sun.  And we continue to sit there and never realized that all we did is just go through a divorce... I mean run into a wall, and all we have to do is get up and continue with our lives.  Consider the possibility we are still choosing to eat the fruits from the forbidden tree of right and wrong and continue to behave like crazy people putting fig leaves all over our self for hiding the beautiful creation of God’s image.



Hi Mr post modernist. No black and white just grey, I whole heartedly disagree. Not about blame, it's about perception. A different way of seeing the problem. absence is empty, blockage is ignorant, a different treatment for both, but a better treatment for the latter.




Heaven.

Revelations 7:4

"And I heard the number of those sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of Israel"

12000 out of each of the 12 tribes of Israel =144000

Revelations 7:16

"They will hunger no more nor thirst any more, neither will the sun beat down upon them nor any scorching heat.17 because the lamb who is in the middle of the throne, will shepherd them and will guide them to the fountains of waters of life. And God will wipe out every tear from their eyes."

Meaning, in the final days when we are all judged the ones chosen and sealed in the book of life to go to heaven and serve God will be Jewish and that heaven is limited to that amount only.

That seems to conflict with some modern teachings and gets neglected so ill leave you to ponder on that.

Well Revelations, anyone who says they understand it are lying. Not even Jesus knows.


So, you are now saying a book of the bible is wrong and you are now judging people?

How many other scriptures are wrong then?

According to the Bible Jesus does know as he is there already and waiting for that final trumpet. No one, and I mean that, NO ONE goes, according to the Bible, no one goes to heaven until the end of time as all dead souls are in limbo until then. Its at the end of time when we will be judged so you should reflect on that. Even the unborn dead don't go as they have no souls and any one who say otherwise is wrong or cant read properly. No judgement, just reading the words.

Jesus was a Jew, a Rabbi who preached to Jews and had followers that were also Jews. He and his followers did not preach to Christians as the idea of Christianity came after his death. His disciples made sure of that and changed things to suit themselves.

Judas, for instance fulfilled God wishes. He and Jesus made sure that the prophesies were fulfilled and yet Judas, according to the Bible, was outcast and would never go the Heaven. Logically, he should be standing at Gods side for helping to bring about that destiny.

The trouble is, you will find, that in quoting religious texts you can be shot down as there are plenty of contradictions which can be pointed out.

I mean no harm Jolly, just that what you feel is not always what others feel as atheists and agnostics feel no need to propagate illusions, whereas those who believe seem to thrust their belief upon others.

Any belief in a God character is personal, and should stay that way.

Brotherhood and love is fine and should stay that way.

As a non believing Jew, I wish you happiness and love.


OK This is not a question of correct or not correct, its about understanding and truth in different interpretations, I am merely discussing Revelations, not the other texts, I am talking bout as were you originally, the future. The message is cryptic, and no one understands it, not even Jesus- Matt 24.36

Read and read again you will never know what it means or what is going to happen, Why? Because it's not for you. As I said anyone who says 'I know what will happen' is a liar. 

We'll know, after the fact.

 
And as for this quote: "Any belief in a God character is personal, and should stay that way."

I disagree, we are called to serve god to serve in the world:

To serve others
To proclaim faith
To share views
To help the poor
To love our brother
To save souls
To be nice to your sister :)

Should I go on?

The arm chair faithful are not faithful: James 2. 14-20

Sorry but I consider your attitude negative, it's like you just want all the Godly people to sit at home and do nothing- What is motivating that?

                






« Last Edit: 27/07/2008 13:25:25 by Jolly »
 

Offline that mad man

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The darkness and the light....
« Reply #28 on: 25/07/2008 23:15:28 »
Just to point out you folly Jolly, you seem to be saying that YOU understand! ;)

You also seem to have omitted the bit that came earlier re Matthew.

24:34

"Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will no means pass away. 36 "Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels in heaven nor the son, but only the father."

According to the above we don't know when it will happen, and you are correct even Jesus does not know when but we do know WHAT will happen, we all get judged, some go to heaven or hell and Revelations says the same.

As Revelations was the last book and written after the others I don't think earlier comments have much standing.

And an earlier bit you can look up.

Matthew 6:6

"But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you."

So its better to pray to God in the privacy and quiet of your own home.

 “Beware of practising your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven."

My attitude may be negative but can you be positive and prove in Gods existence? Who chooses who is Godly or not depends on what religion or God you believe in, and there are many.

There, as Dawkins would say lies the problem.

 

Offline livingod101

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The darkness and the light....
« Reply #29 on: 26/07/2008 11:08:12 »
It has been suggested that evil is the absence of good, as darkness is the absence of light.

I have a different take on this, darkness is surely the obstruction of light.

Shadow is not the absence of light but actually the result of something getting in the way of the light.

So following that line:- If We are in the end, all Gods children, it follows that we all have the light of God within us.

I therefore suggest that it is negativity that works to blocks the light of God.

Negativity in the form of Hate, anger, greed, envy, arrogance and so forth.

It then suggests that evil is actually the obstruction of good, for first it is obstructed in ourselves and then as a result of that obstruction, people are lead to obstruct others.

Which is why I believe that the 'Circumcision of the heart' is probably the greatest covenant.

So rather than people trying to fill holes in themselves, they are actually trying to cover up statues(for want of a better metaphor). 

Discuss

Jolly,

Would you be willing to consider the possibility that neither good or bad, positive or negative, yin and yang or anything which cannot be described without the help of another just do not exist.  Really how do you define good, we define good by stating something that is "not" bad and if you say tried to add "-1" with "+1" you get 0, nothing.  Consider the possibility there is nothing good or bad in the universe, there is just "what's so".  We created "good" and "bad" to create borders and define boundaries.  An example I love to use is this, have you ever watched a child play?  If you did you will notice the child knows no boundaries.  The child will run around naked, put everything in their mouth, speak their mind and will also run into a wall.  The child will fall and cry for a while and then they will get up and continue with their lives as if nothing happened.  Yet us adults we run around and run into a wall and will fall, and we will cry also, for a very long long long long long... long time.  And we will sit there and blame everything, we will blame ourselves for running into the wall, we will blame others for not stopping you, we will blame the wall it self for being there, we will blame the architect for putting up a wall, and blame everything under the sun.  And we continue to sit there and never realized that all we did is just go through a divorce... I mean run into a wall, and all we have to do is get up and continue with our lives.  Consider the possibility we are still choosing to eat the fruits from the forbidden tree of right and wrong and continue to behave like crazy people putting fig leaves all over our self for hiding the beautiful creation of God’s image.



Hi Mr post modernist. No black and white just grey, I whole heartedly disagree. Not about blame, it's about perception. A different way of seeing the problem. absence is empty, blockage is ignorant, a different treatment for both, but a better treatment for the latter.


Huh?
 

paul.fr

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The darkness and the light....
« Reply #30 on: 26/07/2008 15:06:12 »
.
 

sooyeah

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The darkness and the light....
« Reply #31 on: 27/07/2008 12:44:19 »
Just to point out you folly Jolly, you seem to be saying that YOU understand! ;)

You clearly don't understand me at all, we even today, still have problems understanding the parables properly- seems more clear to me, that you think you know, I claim no-one does.

You also seem to have omitted the bit that came earlier re Matthew.

24:34

"Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will no means pass away. 36 "Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels in heaven nor the son, but only the father."

According to the above we don't know when it will happen, and you are correct even Jesus does not know when but we do know WHAT will happen, we all get judged, some go to heaven or hell and Revelations says the same.

As Revelations was the last book and written after the others I don't think earlier comments have much standing.

And an earlier bit you can look up.

Matthew 6:6

"But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you."

So its better to pray to God in the privacy and quiet of your own home.

 “Beware of practising your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven."

"What I tell you in secret, you should shout from the roof tops"

My attitude may be negative but can you be positive and prove in Gods existence? Who chooses who is Godly or not depends on what religion or God you believe in, and there are many.

There, as Dawkins would say lies the problem.

You must think for yourself, I will not prove that which God does not want to show. Even if I could. :)



.


Well cute as always. Your sig says it all.

« Last Edit: 27/07/2008 12:52:35 by Jolly »
 

sooyeah

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The darkness and the light....
« Reply #32 on: 27/07/2008 13:02:29 »
Hey everyone:

Jesus comes to us, holds us, forgives us, teaches us, shakes us and wakes us, and if we are strong enough, he helps us become fearless children of joy and love- and all he asks in return is that, in our lives we show him to others.

That we shine:

feature=related

(last post- there are last posts and last posts, We never could know it all or do it all and really any desire to, is just vanity- just be and be happy)

Sometimes there is no hype or glupe, you want my advice:
                                                       Read the Gospel- The word, it's all there.
« Last Edit: 27/07/2008 14:01:15 by Jolly »
 

paul.fr

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The darkness and the light....
« Reply #33 on: 27/07/2008 19:16:06 »




.


Well cute as always. Your sig says it all.



Thanks. That's my pet crank, I call it Oliver!
Yes my sig does doesn't it, It's called being truthful, "a concept far beyond you"; "Matthew: 12"
 

sooyeah

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The darkness and the light....
« Reply #34 on: 28/07/2008 08:34:43 »




.


Well cute as always. Your sig says it all.



Thanks. That's my pet crank, I call it Oliver!
Yes my sig does doesn't it, It's called being truthful, "a concept far beyond you"; "Matthew: 12"

Thanks Paul, you should'nt be so angry, I do care about you, and God loves you, even if you are blind to it- that is the truth.
Matthew: 13 ;)

 

sooyeah

  • Guest
The darkness and the light....
« Reply #35 on: 28/07/2008 08:46:21 »
My fellow servants of God,
                         Jesus calls us to serve in the world, to serve humanity, to fight for God with love; and love we must.
We must love them in the prisons
We must love then in the mental homes
We must love them in the cities
love them from the tallest skyrise to the deepest darkest valley
We must never forget that in every tyrant, in every monster, in every plutocratic nut is a human being trying to get out: They may beat us, they may poison us, invent horrific lies to discredit us, they may torture us or maybe even murder us, but we must love them back.
We must turn the other cheek and show them God cares- In many ways Jesus asks us to go to the worst to try and bring them back or to die trying.
We do not do it for fame we do not act in this way for prestige or honers; we do it because we love them, as we know God loves them.
Never forget the person who says he loves God but hates a fellow human is a lier, for how can a person love God if he hates Gods child? 1 Thessalonian 3.12

Remember Jesus came for the sick and as did he so should we. Evil men fight for their death and the death of others, we fight so that they may live; God loves them never forget that. In the end the person forgiven little, will love little.

The Godly have Chasity, the ungodly wish to dominate others, the godly respect peoples God given freedom, God made us free and wants us free. Any desire to dominate others is evil.

We must stand against injustice in all it forms but always fight with love.

Prayer, Truth, Joy, Faith, but above all love, these are our weapons. Bad people can all come back, Jesus came for them, to save them, I believe we should also.

I went through a lot to learn this, I only ask that you atleast consider it.

Your Friend

JOLIVER

We are all brothers, but some are more brothers than others.   
 

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The darkness and the light....
« Reply #35 on: 28/07/2008 08:46:21 »

 

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