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Offline Exodus

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The strongest acid...
« on: 24/04/2003 03:02:58 »
Can anyone tell me what the strongest acid known to man is, assuming each acid type is of similar molar concentration.[?]

Thats Economics...


 

Offline NakedScientist

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Re: The strongest acid...
« Reply #1 on: 24/04/2003 11:12:34 »
Depends on what you mean by 'strong acid'. A 'strong' solution of acid might be a very concentrated one, but the acid itself might not be very 'strong', that is, very good at producing hydrogen ions. Also, it depends what you want to dissolve.

For instance, to get gold into solution you need aqua regia, a mixture of nitric (HNO3) and hydrochloric (HCl) acids. Neither acid on its own is sufficient to dissolve gold. http://jchemed.chem.wisc.edu/JCESoft/CCA/CCA3/MAIN/AQREGIA/PAGE1.HTM

On the other hand, to etch glass (for example to make 'frosted' light bulbs) you need hydrofluoric acid (HF).

As a general rule the better the 'acid' ionises, that is, the further the reaction moves to the right to make H+ ions, the stronger the acid. Strong acids like hydrochloric (HCl) ionise almost completely to H+ and Cl- ions in water, so all of the acidic component (the H+ ions) is available to react.

Examples of weak acids are things like vinegar or citric acid. These ionise only weakly with the majority of the 'acid' remaining unionised and only a small amount splitting up to make H+ ions and anions. As the hydrogen ions are used up by a reaction, more of the 'acid' ionises to replace them, but this takes time and limits the 'strength' of the acid.

Hope that helps.

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Offline cuso4

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Re: The strongest acid...
« Reply #2 on: 26/04/2003 07:56:36 »
What about H2SO4? Does this count as a strong acid?

AG
 

Offline Quantumcat

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Re: The strongest acid...
« Reply #3 on: 26/04/2003 09:33:46 »
H2SO4 is what the junior science classes use a lot. Surely it's not very strong :p
 

Offline NakedScientist

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Re: The strongest acid...
« Reply #4 on: 26/04/2003 15:11:33 »
H2SO4 - sulphuric acid - is also a 'strong' acid which, like HCl, ionises very well in water and hence is a good source of H+ ions.
TNS
 

Offline ducttapeman

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Re: The strongest acid...
« Reply #5 on: 09/07/2003 00:07:02 »
it depends, on how you are classing the acids, one of the strongest(on my scale), is the so called magic acid, FHSO3-SbF5, but only on it's reactivity, not so much on ionization in water, (i know its a little wierd but look it up)
 

Online chris

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Re: The strongest acid...
« Reply #6 on: 09/07/2003 23:40:24 »
Ducttapeman - Welcome

tell us a bit more about this bizarre acid of yours !

Chris

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Offline Supercryptid

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Re: The strongest acid...
« Reply #7 on: 17/02/2004 02:31:49 »
ducttapeman talks of fluoro-antimonic acid. It is a mixture of antimony pentafluoride and hydrogen fluoride. The ionization equation looks like this:

SbF5 + 2HF <--> SbF6- + H2F+

The antimony pentafluoride molecule takes a fluoride anion from a molecule of hydrogen fluoride. This leaves a proton behind, which seeks out another hydrogen fluoride molecule to form a fluoronium cation. This fluoronium cation is EXTREMELY acidic, and this is what causes the mixture to be so acidic.

I would expect a hypothetical hydrogen heliide cation to be even more acidic than a fluoronium cation because of helium's super-high electronegativity.

 

Offline neilep

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Re: The strongest acid...
« Reply #8 on: 21/02/2004 03:47:18 »
Please realise that I am completely out of my depth here but could there be an acid which is so strong that it could not be stored in anything ?...it's just that I always remember seeing acids stored in glass containers, so is there an acid that can dissolve glass ?...and the acid portrayed in the Aliens films, does anything like that actually exist ?

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Offline Ylide

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Re: The strongest acid...
« Reply #9 on: 21/02/2004 04:26:39 »
Hydrofluoric acid will dissolve a glass container, as will sodium hydroxide (a strong base) albeit more slowly.  It has more to do with reactivity than strength.  Those materials are safely stored in Teflon or other organic polymer containers.  

I don't believe there exists a material that can't be stored SOMEWHERE.  Aqua Regia can dissolve gold but won't touch many transition metals.  There's always going to be something that is nonreactive to something else.

As far as the alien films, if those are steel floors and walls, many concentrated acids could do that.  An organism being able to protect itself from acid that concentrated is another story...even your stomach acid is thousands of times less powerful than that.

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Offline neilep

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Re: The strongest acid...
« Reply #10 on: 21/02/2004 13:33:09 »
Jay, fantastic, thank you very much.

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Offline tweener

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Re: The strongest acid...
« Reply #11 on: 22/02/2004 01:40:42 »
quote:
Originally posted by Quantumcat

H2SO4 is what the junior science classes use a lot. Surely it's not very strong :p



I got some H2SO4 on me when I was in chemistry class.  It felt REALLY strong then!

As for a substance that can't be stored in anything, how would we know about it if we can't store it and study it?  One thing that comes to mind is some of the plasma from the interior of the sun. I can't think of any way to store it except in a very strong gravitic field such as the interior of a star.


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Offline Ylide

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Re: The strongest acid...
« Reply #12 on: 22/02/2004 04:32:55 »
Wouldn't that plasma cool down when taken out of the environment of the sun?  Of course, how you're going to get it out of there in the first place is another story.  :P



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Offline tweener

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Re: The strongest acid...
« Reply #13 on: 23/02/2004 03:24:56 »
I suppose it would cool quite fast, but I have no idea how to get to it, let alone get it out.


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Offline Ylide

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Re: The strongest acid...
« Reply #14 on: 23/02/2004 17:40:32 »
Maybe if we built this giant wooden badger....

sorry, watched Monty Python and the Holy Grail last night.  Couldn't be helped.  :P



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Offline tweener

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Re: The strongest acid...
« Reply #15 on: 23/02/2004 19:22:35 »
hehehehe - It'd be fun to watch it flame out somewhere around the orbit of venus!


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Offline Quantumcat

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Re: The strongest acid...
« Reply #16 on: 23/02/2004 19:47:25 »
I didn't read all the post, but acidobasic reactions is what the class is working on at the moment and I don't understand it at all ... ~sighs~

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Offline Supercryptid

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Re: The strongest acid...
« Reply #17 on: 24/02/2004 04:14:53 »
So far to my knowledge, the hypothetically most powerful acid would be NeH4^4+. It would consist of a neon atom in the sp3 hybridization state, and each of the four lone pairs would form a coordinate bond with a proton, forming a tetrahedral molecule similar to methane in appearance.

This cation would be EXTREMELY unstable, and would immediately discard all four of those protons. In fact, it would probably be so unstable that it could never be synthesized.

This makes me wonder if other similar cations might be formed someday, such as H4O^2+ and H4F^3+. I doubt the positively charged hydronium cation would be able to act as a lewis base to a proton though, since both of them are positively charged and would repel one another. These hypothetical molecules would also be super-powerful acidic molecules.
 

Offline cuso4

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Re: The strongest acid...
« Reply #18 on: 24/02/2004 09:14:48 »
quote:
Originally posted by Quantumcat

I didn't read all the post, but acidobasic reactions is what the class is working on at the moment and I don't understand it at all ... ~sighs~

Am I dead? Am I alive? I'm both!




You're not doing titration reactions, are you?
acid + alkali -> salt + water?

Angel
 

Offline NickNYC

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Re: The strongest acid...
« Reply #19 on: 11/03/2004 18:45:39 »
THE strongest acid, much to all of your surprise I'm sure is actually synthesizedin the human stomach.  YES, the reaction occurs quite precisely 3.257 minutes after completing any item on the menu of Speedo's Taqueria on Madison Avenue in Albany, NY.  Now, if we could only harness this power... think of all they dissolving things we could do! Just THINK of it man!

good day.
 

Offline Donnah

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Re: The strongest acid...
« Reply #20 on: 11/03/2004 22:58:25 »
Guess I can't think of it.  I'm not a man.
 

Offline Ylide

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Re: The strongest acid...
« Reply #21 on: 12/03/2004 17:38:23 »
Nick, I would say the reaction obtained from eating at any sleazy mexican place on the east coast (you guys know mexican like we know pizza...not at all!) is a result of the added material in the food.  Note how the same thing doesn't occur when you plow through a pizza or a cheesesteak.  

Glad to see a fellow new yorker here (even though I don't live there anymore!)




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Offline NickNYC

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Re: The strongest acid...
« Reply #22 on: 15/03/2004 18:10:32 »
yeah.. this is a bad UPstate mex place.. the best mexican round these parts is a place called Rosa Mexicano in manhattan.. upper east side i believe... they make the best guacamole EVER and they make it AT your table.

yes, donnah, you're strictly forbidden to think about it because of your woman-ness... that is exactly what i intended and i'm glad you caught that and didn't just go ahead and think of anything because that would be wrong.

 

Offline Donnah

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Re: The strongest acid...
« Reply #23 on: 17/03/2004 01:39:22 »
quote:
Originally posted by NickNYC
yes, donnah, you're strictly forbidden to think about it because of your woman-ness... that is exactly what i intended and i'm glad you caught that and didn't just go ahead and think of anything because that would be wrong.


Yes NickNYC, we mere women cannot possibly think as well as men.  They have two heads to our one after all, and we know what wonderful decisions men make with the aid of that second head.;)
 

Offline MayoFlyFarmer

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Re: The strongest acid...
« Reply #24 on: 21/03/2004 00:25:30 »
cuso, you sound like you have the same tramitization from titration rxns that I do.  (shutters).  It took all my strength just to open the "cehmistry" section on this site. (and now I'm leaving!)

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Re: The strongest acid...
« Reply #24 on: 21/03/2004 00:25:30 »

 

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