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Offline Exodus

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Why oh why?!
« on: 25/01/2008 15:49:36 »
Do i pay hundreds of pounds to the government every month for them to then charge me for providing me with a packet of antibiotics? I cant remember the last time i was ill and had to get a prescription, i've paid a fortune in NI since then! yet there will be other people out there, paying nothing yet getting treatment... take slappers for example, getting preggers, or druggies catching hepatitis... And then there is the government off giving billions to other countries for schools and hospitals when many of ours are in debt and can't even keep themselves clean, and using the hardworking hospital nurses, teachers and coppers as a way of keeping inflation down by giving us crap pay deals. It makes me sick, i hate this country.

Sorry, rant over.


 

Offline Vcoolspice

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« Reply #1 on: 25/01/2008 16:32:59 »
No problem, there's a tax over here in the US, where we have to pay for the 'right' to work!!!!  >:( >:( All politians are nuts!! and they wonder why so many don't vote, don't work, etc.  Lazy people getting rich through my aching back!!
 

Offline Karen W.

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« Reply #2 on: 25/01/2008 21:55:13 »
Do i pay hundreds of pounds to the government every month for them to then charge me for providing me with a packet of antibiotics? I cant remember the last time i was ill and had to get a prescription, i've paid a fortune in NI since then! yet there will be other people out there, paying nothing yet getting treatment... take slappers for example, getting preggers, or druggies catching hepatitis... And then there is the government off giving billions to other countries for schools and hospitals when many of ours are in debt and can't even keep themselves clean, and using the hardworking hospital nurses, teachers and coppers as a way of keeping inflation down by giving us crap pay deals. It makes me sick, i hate this country.

Sorry, rant over.

Thanks It is a very good rant!..

I have been working since I was 10 years old. Literally paying for whatever we needed.. and my own wants and needs.. I come from a family of 9 with 7 siblings.

We have always worked and paid in to pay taxes etc.. and programs like medical etc.. It is unfathomable that now that I need help as an as a 47 year old in failing health.. I am turned down because of technicalities.. ie I have my house am not living on the street etc.. Seems you must be homeless or much worse to receive help you have paid in to recieve in a time when you need it.. It does sicken me also the situation here in the states. I just spent 3 weeks without any of my 19 medications and was not in good shape due to lack of funs and refusal of help to provide my medications...I quite seriously was in a terrible way. I have since been able to get my disability checks rolling again. tHEY SENT ME A PAPER TO SIGN TOKEEP IT GOING i SIGNED IT AND SENT IT OFF PAYING EXTRA TO GET IT THERE OVERNIGHT AS i WANTED NO DELAYS IN MY CHECK AND EVEN SO THEY DELAYED MY CHECK FOR THREE ADDITIONAL WEEKS... AS IF i COULD LIVE ON NOTHING.. tHE COST OF THE MEDS BASICLY TOOK ALL OF MY THREE WEEK CHECK LEAVING ME 100.00 DOLLARS TO PAY FOR UTILITIES GROCERIES WATER ETC..

NEEDLESS TO SAY MANY LUXURIES LIKE MY PHONE WENT WAYSIDE UNTIL I HAD MY MEDS AND GROCERIES ..

Anyway I here you and am in agreement .. I feel there is no excuse for our Countries to allow this to happen with anyone within their walls. It is terrible when I think about the elderly the very young that go without and suffer because of the system we have in this country. Health care should not be an issue for anyone!
« Last Edit: 25/01/2008 22:00:11 by Karen W. »
 

paul.fr

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Why oh why?!
« Reply #3 on: 26/01/2008 08:17:26 »
... And then there is the government off giving billions to other countries for schools and hospitals when many of ours are in debt and can't even keep themselves clean, and using the hardworking hospital nurses, teachers and coppers as a way of keeping inflation down by giving us crap pay deals. It makes me sick, i hate this country.

Surely the problem is poor management on the part of the NHS, How much money have they squandered on management and consultants. As far as pay is concerned, sorry but i have no sympathy for nurses, firemen...You know the payscale and job criteria when first entering the profession. It's bad form to then say we are overworked and underpaid.

What really p***** me off is when firemen go on strike and hassle you in the street for money to fund them whilst the are on strike, you took the job matey now get your ass back to work and stop your moaning. And nurses, blackmailing the premiership to get the players to part with a percentage of their earning...ahhhhhhh

As for slapper, druggies and Ni contributions, nail on the head.

If you really want to have a good rant, the the GB Olympics team is a good place to start.
why do we send a Bunch on no hoper's around the world for a free holiday, knowing the best they can do is come in last? Sure they may be able to run, swim or skip faster than i can but does that make them worthy of this free holiday?

"it's the taking part that counts", "it's good experience for them"...give me a break. If they are not good enough to challenge for a place in the top three them make then get a proper job, and pay for their own holiday to china.
« Last Edit: 26/01/2008 08:33:18 by paul.fr »
 

Offline Exodus

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« Reply #4 on: 26/01/2008 09:16:57 »
I think you'll find that the likes of nurses police and teachers are not complaining about basic rates at present, the current gripe revolves around poor pay offers with relation to inflation.

Agree with you on the GB athletics team though.
 

paul.fr

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« Reply #5 on: 26/01/2008 14:24:29 »
I think you'll find that the likes of nurses police and teachers are not complaining about basic rates at present, the current gripe revolves around poor pay offers with relation to inflation.

Yes, but if you see or hear them being interviewed they always go back to the same old "it's a dangerous job", "we put our lives on the line"...I don't disagree with that, but it was their job of choice. As for pay increases in line with or above inflation, this is something we would all like. I think they will find that the majority of the general public have little sympathy for any of them.
 

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« Reply #6 on: 26/01/2008 17:42:03 »
Yes, but if you see or hear them being interviewed they always go back to the same old "it's a dangerous job", "we put our lives on the line"...I don't disagree with that, but it was their job of choice. As for pay increases in line with or above inflation, this is something we would all like. I think they will find that the majority of the general public have little sympathy for any of them.

The general issues about the rate of pay, and the nature of the job, I may agree with you (although the nominal rate of inflation is in my view meaningless, and bears little relation to the real rise in the cost of living - but that is another matter); but the area where I do agree with the police is that the Government are refusing to accept the recommendations of an independent arbitration (what is the point of arbitration if it is not going to be accepted), and the fact that teachers (who are able to go on strike) are being offered more than police (who are not allowed to go on strike).
 

another_someone

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« Reply #7 on: 26/01/2008 17:46:02 »
Do i pay hundreds of pounds to the government every month for them to then charge me for providing me with a packet of antibiotics? I cant remember the last time i was ill and had to get a prescription, i've paid a fortune in NI since then! yet there will be other people out there, paying nothing yet getting treatment... take slappers for example, getting preggers, or druggies catching hepatitis... And then there is the government off giving billions to other countries for schools and hospitals when many of ours are in debt and can't even keep themselves clean, and using the hardworking hospital nurses, teachers and coppers as a way of keeping inflation down by giving us crap pay deals. It makes me sick, i hate this country.

Sorry, rant over.

Wait until you get to the older years in life, and see if you still feel the same way.

Ofcourse, what you are arguing for in effect is the disbandment of the NHS, and a full pay as you go health system.  There are plenty of countries that do have that, and tough luck on those who cannot afford to pay for it (not surprisingly, those who need the most from the health service are often those who are least able to pay for it, because they are not in good enough health to work).

There are argument for and against a general free health service, or a pay as you go health system; but neither side is going to make everybody happy.
 

paul.fr

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« Reply #8 on: 26/01/2008 17:53:37 »
Agreed, the police do have a case. The gov. will have to eventually give way on this issue.
I don't think many of us really have pay rises that actually put money in your pocket. with gas and electricity going up 15% on average, and council tax possibly 10% higher this year not to mention the upcoming rises in the budget. Who does get a rise to cover them? Could the gov. actually afford to give rises that would cover them and put extra money in your pocket?

It always makes me laugh at budget times when they give figures like, the average family (two parents) with 2 kids and a mortgage on a 100,000 home will be 5,50p better off per week. Should i save that up or just blow the lot on a new...packet of fags?
 

Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #9 on: 26/01/2008 18:39:07 »
"Could the gov. actually afford to give rises that would cover them and put extra money in your pocket?"
Yes, but they would have to raise taxes to pay for it.

As it stands we have a prime minister (and former chancellor) who says he can't fund the police's pay rise because it would be inflationary.
Since inflation is a measure of the money supply, and the government is in complete control of that, his statement is false.
Anyway, having said he can't do it because it would cause inflation, which is a bad thing, he then lets the central bank introduce another 10 billion into the economy to try to ease problems caused by the sub prime loans farce. Putting ten billion into the economy is inflationary.
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #10 on: 26/01/2008 22:03:05 »
Well, how about this for an insult.

My mum used to get her pension plus attendance allowance for a carer. She didn't smoke, didn't drink, couldn't go out, and lived in sheltered accommodation for which she got full housing benefit. As a consequence of her abstemious lifestyle, most of her income stayed in her bank account.

After she passed away I got a letter from the Benefits Dept asking for a copy of the probate documents. After I sent them, I got another letter saying that as my mum had more than x amount in her account, she wasn't actually entitled to the level of benefit she was getting and I would have to pay back over 2,000.

I explained that the only reason my mum had that much in her account was because she didn't spend any of her benefit. Their reply amounted to "Tough sh*t. You've got to pay up".

So, if my mum had been a drinker and smoker, and profligate with her money, she would not have had that much in the bank and none would have had to be paid back. I pointed out the absurdity and unfairness of that, but was told I would still have to pay the money back.

I was actually in the process of selling my house at the time. I transferred the proceeds from that, and most of the rest of my bank balance, into an overseas account leaving only 50 pence in my account, and told the Benefits Office to sue me, and if they did I would file for bankruptcy. I've heard nothing more from them  :D

I know that's got nothing to do with pay rises etc, but it illustrates the way this government abuses their control of our purse-strings.

 

Offline chris

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« Reply #11 on: 26/01/2008 23:01:10 »
What I find most sickening, where the NHS is concerned, is that there are people in this country who have paid a lot of tax, worked throughout their lives and not claimed benefits. But then, in their old age, they develop a problem such as macular degeneration, or a breast cancer; for these two conditions there are new drugs that have been shown to be clinical superior to existing therapies. However, sufferers are told by "NICE" (who inappropriate!) that they must pay for the treatment themselves.

Now let me introduce Mr BL; he's in his 30s, from Zimbabwe, and is here illegally. He arrived under the auspices of being "a student", but "forgot" when his visa expired and disappeared. Around the same time he popped into his local genito-urinary medicine clinical "for a check up". Surprise surprise he's got HIV, and the first thing that happens is he is commenced on anti-retroviral treatment, which we're paying for to the tune of 20,000 pounds per year. Now he'll claim asylum on the grounds that if he returns home it will amount to a death sentence because he can't get the drugs there. Better stay here then eh? Result, we continue to fund him and as he's too ill to work we provide housing, living allowances, other healthcare and so on. And because the drugs are good these days he'll probably live another 5 to 10 years if not more; and you;ve got it, all at our expense. Total cost to the tax payer including the 1500 pounds per day hospital bed whilst he gets sorted out - roughly 100,000 pounds.

Meanwhile the pensioner I told you about at the beginning is slowly going blind and now cannot see to fill in the ridiculous form to get an extra 18p to help her out with her winter fuel bills.

This seems totally unfair.

It's not the fault of the man from Zimbabwe - if I were in his position I'd do the same.

What we have is a useless system and an even more useless government fronted by the most boring man in the world who's top accolade is to gurn for Scotland. This government are destroying this country and have made irreversible changes to our creed and culture. I despair of the lot of them.
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #12 on: 26/01/2008 23:27:57 »
... who's top accolade is to gurn for Scotland.



I totally agree with your comments. I too despair at the way the NHS functions. Treatment by postcode is immoral.

On your example of the Zimbabwean, if he was here illegally he should not have received treatment. I know that sounds harsh, but the NHS is hard-pressed enough financially. We cannot afford to treat overseas nationals who shouldn't even be here in the first place.

Incidentally, would anyone like to calculate how many more cancer sufferers could have received treatment if we weren't wasting so much money in Iraq?
 

paul.fr

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« Reply #13 on: 27/01/2008 00:05:05 »
Perhaps the illegal only entered the country to see his local GP?
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #14 on: 27/01/2008 00:06:27 »
Perhaps the illegal only entered the country to see his local GP?
Not very local, then
 

paul.fr

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« Reply #15 on: 27/01/2008 00:15:24 »
It is if the GP left his native country to work here for more money or to fill the gap we are supposed to have in trained doctors and nurses.

Something else that i say "why oh why" to...women!
Well not all of them, just the stupid ones that cross a road between parked cars with a baby in a pram. The pram is always first to emerge from behind the parked car with the hapless women oblivious to the danger pushing it...ahhh

Speaking of women, should we not have some sort of x factor judges that decide if women are too ugly and stupid to have children?
« Last Edit: 27/01/2008 08:27:15 by paul.fr »
 

Offline Exodus

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« Reply #16 on: 27/01/2008 10:59:32 »
And the good women always seem to have boyfriends!
 

Offline Carolyn

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« Reply #17 on: 27/01/2008 17:30:34 »

Speaking of women, should we not have some sort of x factor judges that decide if women are too ugly and stupid to have children?

...so you're saying ugly and stupid women shouldn't breed.  Hmmmm, not very nice Paul.....but ok, as long as we can include ugly & stupid men too.
 

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« Reply #18 on: 27/01/2008 22:50:16 »
On your example of the Zimbabwean, if he was here illegally he should not have received treatment. I know that sounds harsh, but the NHS is hard-pressed enough financially. We cannot afford to treat overseas nationals who shouldn't even be here in the first place.

You mean like this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7178416.stm
Quote
A Ghanaian woman who came to the UK five years ago and became a student is being flown back to the African country, despite being terminally ill.

Ama Sumani was taken by immigration officers from a Cardiff hospital where she has been receiving dialysis for a year after cancer damaged her kidneys.

Ms Sumani, 39, whose visa has expired, said she cannot afford care in Ghana.

Her solicitor said they had pleaded compassionate grounds. The Home Office said it examined each case "with care".

Before leaving, she had been comforted by a nurse in a day-room at the University Hospital of Wales.

The immigration service arrived at 0800 GMT.

Ms Sumani was tearful but calm when she left hospital in a wheelchair with five immigration officials, one carrying her suitcase, and she was driven away.

She left on a flight from Heathrow to Ghana at 1435 GMT.

The cancer she is suffering from - malignant myeloma - would ordinarily be treated with a bone marrow transplant, but she was not entitled to the treatment.

The dialysis treatment she has been receiving is helping to prolong her life and her last treatment was on Tuesday evening.

Legal status

But it needs to be repeated regularly and there are concerns she would not be able to access dialysis treatment centres in Ghana.

Health care there is also private but Ms Sumani said she could not afford it.

A spokesman for Ghana's high commission in London said the country had two fully-equipped hospitals in Accra and further north in Kumasi.

He did concede that access to treatment was costly but said that if Ms Sumani was a member of the Ghana national health insurance scheme she would still receive treatment.

A friend Janet Simmons said Ms Sumani was a widow and a mother of two children, who were currently being looked after by members of her church in Ghana.

She first came to the UK as a visitor in 2003, but then changed her status to student and attempted to enrol on a banking course at a city college, her solicitor explained.

Ms Sumani's lack of English prevented her from pursuing the course and she went to find work which contravened her student visa.

In 2005 she returned to Ghana to attend a memorial service for her dead husband.

But when she came back to the UK her student visa was revoked and she was only given temporary admission which effectively meant she was given notice she would be removed, her solicitor said.

She did not keep in touch with immigration officials and was first taken ill in January 2006. Without the dialysis doctors fear she only has weeks to live.

Her solicitor said she accepted her removal was fair but said they had made representations on her behalf on compassionate grounds.

Ms Sumani is being removed from the country rather than deported because of her expired visa which means she has no legal status in the UK.

A removal means that in theory she could apply to return to the UK in the future.

A spokesman for the Border and Immigration agency said said it would not remove from the UK anyone who they believe is at risk on their return.

"Part of our consideration when a person is removed is their fitness to travel and whether the necessary medical treatment is available in the country to which we are returning," he added.

"Removals are always carried out in the most sensitive way possible, treating those being removed with courtesy and dignity."

I am not talking about the rights and wrongs of it, only that it is not true that, at least in principle, we do not deport people who are dangerously ill despite their illness.

It may be that for political reasons it is more difficult to deport people to Zimbabwe than to Ghana, and there is no doubt that the judgements made by the immigration service can at time be very arbitrary (usually going after the soft targets - they need to fill quotas, and with limited resources, will find the easiest way of meeting their quotas).

Incidentally, would anyone like to calculate how many more cancer sufferers could have received treatment if we weren't wasting so much money in Iraq?

Prolonged wars are always an expensive business, and this particular war has a knock on effect, because of its locality, in that it destabilises oil prices, thus pushing up inflation.  In addition, the fact that we lost so much international good will over this matter has also meant we are less able to utilise that good will where we need it elsewhere in the world (in particular with our relationship with Russia - who is now a major supplier of natural gas).
 

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« Reply #19 on: 27/01/2008 23:36:35 »
I see that in the case cited above the woman had already been receiving "free" dialysis for a year. The cost of that will run to many thousands of pounds before she'd even got started...

This person is an exception, not the rule. There are literally thousands like her. I should know because I used to ahve to treat them when I worked in London. The abuse of our system was appalling. So bad in fact that I nearly resigned over it at one point.
 

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« Reply #20 on: 27/01/2008 23:37:51 »

Speaking of women, should we not have some sort of x factor judges that decide if women are too ugly and stupid to have children?

Ah, in that case then it would have to be called seX factor, surely?

Similarly, in Iran they're running a talent contest for wanna-be suicide bombers - semteX Factor.

Chris
 

another_someone

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« Reply #21 on: 28/01/2008 01:03:33 »
Speaking of women, should we not have some sort of x factor judges that decide if women are too ugly and stupid to have children?

The term I think you are looking for is 'eugenics' - but this is not the political flavour of the month (actually, with good reason).
« Last Edit: 28/01/2008 01:12:51 by another_someone »
 

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« Reply #22 on: 28/01/2008 01:11:50 »
Something else that i say "why oh why" to...women!
Well not all of them, just the stupid ones that cross a road between parked cars with a baby in a pram. The pram is always first to emerge from behind the parked car with the hapless women oblivious to the danger pushing it...ahhh

This is an oft quoted gripe, but what are the real alternatives.

One option (that some people do) is carry the child on their back.  There are advantages to this, although it ofcourse carries risks if the person should fall, and further it prevents the mother and child from making eye contact, or from the mother from easily interacting with her child in any way.

The other alternative is for the mother to walk out into the traffic backwards, with has the advantage that the pram is behind her rather than infront of her, but I don't think I really should need to explain the disadvantages of walking out into traffic backwards.

I suppose someone could invent a pram that is pulled from behind rather than pushed from in front, but this has many of the problems about lack of interaction between mother and child that is true of the backpack, as well as putting the child at risk of being snatched from the pram with the mother unaware.
 

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« Reply #23 on: 28/01/2008 01:19:13 »
Similarly, in Iran they're running a talent contest for wanna-be suicide bombers - semteX Factor.

I actually cannot recollect any Iranian suicide bombers.  Plenty of Pakistanis, Sri Lankans (where the use of explosive belts for suicide bombers was first developed), Saudis, Egyptians, Iraqis, Afghans, even British (albeit of Pakistani or North African or West Indian descent), but no Iranian that I can recollect (although I do not claim my recollection to be faultless).

Certainly, there is much speculation about Iran providing money for overseas organisations that do use suicide bombers, but not actually (to my recollection) of Iranians themselves using the tactic.
 

paul.fr

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« Reply #24 on: 28/01/2008 07:29:14 »
Ah, in that case then it would have to be called seX factor, surely?

Similarly, in Iran they're running a talent contest for wanna-be suicide bombers - semteX Factor.

Chris

Lets not forget that Simon Cowell did not invent the format. This was first tried in  Massachusetts 1692, where it was known as the heX Factor.

This is an oft quoted gripe, but what are the real alternatives.

One option (that some people do) is carry the child on their back.  There are advantages to this, although it of course carries risks if the person should fall, and further it prevents the mother and child from making eye contact, or from the mother from easily interacting with her child in any way.

If it is often quoted, then many people must notice the same thing.
Your option one works, you can carry the baby on your chest. Maintaining eye contact and interacting. This is what i did.

Also, even a lone pedestrian can have trouble seeing oncoming traffic when crossing between parked cars, this has to be worse when you push a pram out first. What is wrong with the mother (or father) pulling the pushchair/pram then once past the parked cars, spinning it around and leading then and only then with the pram?

It's not too difficult, is it?
 

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« Reply #24 on: 28/01/2008 07:29:14 »

 

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