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Author Topic: Usefulness of Glyconutrients  (Read 292484 times)

Offline mannamom

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #100 on: 12/10/2005 15:24:16 »
oops...sorry,
One thing to keep in mind when you start on glyconutrients is that your cells will begin to dump toxins...this is called a correcting response and is a good thing. Shows you that your body is kicking into gear and doing what is should!

It has been a while since I have posted, looks like there a good number of newbies here...welcome! Just as a refresher...Our family has seen enormous results with glyconutrients!!! We would have lost our son without them and we are very grateful! The story is way to long for this forum so, as always, anyone is welcome to e-mail me with questions! emmerich2314@msn.com

Rene
 

Offline loweduane

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #101 on: 17/10/2005 09:24:14 »
Not to be taken personal. I am just noting something that the average non-researcher might not notice about your references for clarity.

Recognize that the study that Kitticat gives links to on glyconutrients (polysulfated fucoidans in this case) and increasing stem-cells was a study where the glyconutrients were "injected" into the animals, not taken orally. Thereby bypassing the digestive system.

While these substances may or may not have similar effects on stem cells when taken orally, the results of this study does not translate to the same effects if taking these supplements by swallowing them, where they have to pass through the digestive system and may or may not be absorbed, and if absorbed, may be broken up into simpler molecules, which would be different than the whole molecules that were injected directly into these animals.

A simple example of this is that insulin, needed by Type 1 diabetics, must be injected, because it wouldn't work taking it by mouth. ("oral" drugs for type 2 diabetics are not insulin, but drugs that increase your body's sensitivity to insulin).

One of the questions not asked by this study is "are similar receptors found within the intestine that these substances could bind to and have an effect on the cytokines that stimulate the release of SDF-1?"

Also, was Rob taking the original glyconutrient product, or the "advanced" form?  The original product has only one ingredient that contains fucose, less than 100 mg in a 1 tsp serving.  Whereas the advanced form contains the sulfated fucoidans similar to the ones used in the study, though not injected of course.  How much was he taking, how often, and you mentioned that he had been taking other supplements as well.  Since these may have an impact on what others would suggest to their friends, these should be listed too for a more complete picture.  

Thanks,

Duane
 

Offline moore4u

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #102 on: 18/10/2005 05:00:35 »
I have not posted here recently, but I have visited often.  It is interesting to read and observe the comments relating to this new technology regarding glyconutritionals.  There will always be the skeptics, but I say the "proof is in the pudding" so to speak!
Not only have I dealt with Lyme Disease and something being called "Morgellons", but my lab reports for the last 20 years have revealed I have something called NASH or non-alcoholic Hepatitis (fatty liver).  My liver enzymes have been highly elevated in the past.
My blood pressure has also been elevated, as well as my cholesterol.
All I have changed so far in my life is to add the glyconutritionals and try to drink more water.
My blood pressure has come down, my cholesterol is so low now it is off the chart low and my liver enzymes have stablized in the normal range after being way up there!
THAT is very exciting to me! I have no current Lyme symptoms, so that is significant as well.
Others can skepticize, ridicule and criticize all they want to, but this is one person who is SOLD on what glyconutrients provide for the body to repair and restore itself. I will keep taking them!
 

Offline falariel

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #103 on: 21/10/2005 22:56:48 »
I found this forum today, in researching any further developments in the field of glyconutritionals. Interesting discussion.

I'll probably be considered "inflammatory", but as it seems I am the ONLY one posting here that actually got "sold" on the Mannatech right away, signed up to be a distributor, though I dislike MLM intensely, AND took the Mannatech products for an extended period of time, and was absolutely NOT helped by the products. Not I, not my family. I feel I was sold a bill of goods, to profit others. That this is in part true, is due to the fact, that I have been approached twice, to relinquish my spot "on the food chain" of Mannatech, to an "active seller". I said SURE, just tell them to reimburse me the money I had to pay to get in the line! I've never received a penny of money from the company or sales of the product, I just SPENT LOTS.

I had several friends, who are now way UP in the hierarchy of the chain, who claimed to be helped by the products, sold me on "getting in", and they are still in. Though they all said they wanted to help others with the profits they made from selling, none of them really did then, or have they since. My involvement with Mannatech began in 1998. My experience with this company is that they turn you into little robots, it is a "culture" and you are strongly encouraged to attend their meetings, listen to their constant phone calls, to the point you have no life that is not with people associated with the company and the products. You simply do not have time. I was encouraged to infiltrate my church and social groups with the products and "sell" my other friends: after all, I was "helping them" be healthier. When I expressed concern over this, and stated that I just wanted to let people ask me about it if they wanted to, I was told I wasn't enthusiastic enough.

I am a former medical student, who has never stopped studying, researching, and educating myself on nutrition. I quit school because I felt that there were better ways to help people than a PhD in genetics. Yep, I was going to get into the cellular level and hoped to heal serious disease. I had a full scholarship, too, so I am not a slouch in the intelligence department, nor do I lack the ability to learn.

I have studied everything and everyone from Adele Davis and Euell Gibbons, to the most current protocols in traditional Western medicine, and all alternative medicines. Despite my best efforts, and proper diet, organic, clean water, supplementation, exercise, etc., I still became seriously ill. I have found several things that have helped me. But these products have not.

Moore4u mentioned that she has NASH... well, so do I, just recently diagnosed. I am also a recently diagnosed Type II diabetic, with fibromyalgia. I don't know whether I'll try mixing my own concoction and trying it again, but I know I won't be buying from the company store.

I had a friend with Lyme disease, it didn't help her at all with it.

Someone else very dear to me, in my family, died from pancreatic cancer at age 43, it didn't help him at all.

One of the upline's parents had diabetes, and they claimed he was being helped by taking Ambrotose, and all the other products, but he was taking 3 heaping teaspoons of Ambrotose a day! If they hadn't been providing it for him, I doubt he would have been taking it. It did help him some, in that he was able to reduce his insulin injections, but he died of diabetes related complications all the same.

I know ONE person who said she was helped by the products... and she took ALL of them, in at least double doses; she had chronic fatigue syndrome.

Yes, I took the products in more than normal dosages, as did my husband and son, for nearly a year. We couldn't really afford it financially, but we wanted to be healthier, so we did without a lot of other things. So, here you have a person posting that they did NOT benefit from Mannatech. BTW, the word Manna?
It actually means, "What is it?"  Do a Bible research on the subject. So, that's sort of what I think about Mannatech... "What is it, really?"

Falariel
 

Offline loweduane

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #104 on: 23/10/2005 06:19:18 »
Great post.  I hope that you will take the time to share your story at the Curezone.com glyconutrients support forum as well.  It is good for people to see both sides of a story.  

There are many many different nutritional supplements/therapies, and they all have their proponents.  Many of these advocates are also people who had great benefits from these therapies.  Just because they work for some, doesn't mean they are the miracle cure for others.  And just because they don't work for some doesn't mean they are worthless either.  

The female friend who introduced me to these supplements had a great response, and thinks they are a miracle cure for everything.  She is so excited about them, she often ignores those people who report getting no benefit.  One mutual male friend had a few days that his chronic pain was better, then it returned just as bad as ever.  The first friend told many people about his "miraculous" response, but neglected to mention about the return of the pain.  He had to ask her to stop telling people about his pain and response.  To his credit however, he has continued to take the supplements for the last year, but he can't say for sure if they have helped, but the company sends him a check each month to from others who are taking them, so he doesn't have to pay for them, so he keeps taking them.

As research is done into the actual mechanisms of action of these supplements, it will give us a better idea of whom they will help, and whom they won't, and other ways to maximize their benefits where appropriate.  This is where being open to ideas and research that may differ from the preconceived explanations will be important.

Duane
 

Offline FYI

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #105 on: 23/10/2005 14:49:50 »
"It is not...that some people do not know what to do with truth when it is offered to them, but the tragic fate is to reach, after patient search, a condition of mind- blindness, in which the truth is not recognized, though it stares you in the face."
-Sir William Osler, physician, 1849-1919
Duane complains about not being able to understand my posts. I do not believe that he is stupid or “mind blind.”. I believe that he is fraudulent. He has spent the past year trashing the 8 essential sugars hypothesis, cell to cell communication, and especially the M/T associates who post based on that theory, across the internet forums. He has repeatedly for the past year said that there are no studies or scientific evidence to back it up. Now I present two recent studies that support it all, and he ignores the evidence, and claims that it backs up what he has been preaching, that Ambrotose cannot provide more than one essential sugar because it must be digested in the colon into SCFAs (short chain fatty acids). Read my previous post and you can see what he ignored to pull his quote. You can make up your own mind as to which of us is accurately representing the facts. Again, here is a shortened excerpt of the quotes:
“Like B. thetaiotaomicron, each of these species resides in the distal small intestine/colon. “
So we have this bacteria specie residing in the small intestine, where most absorption of monosaccharides takes place, satisfying one of Duane’s objections.
“More than half of the carbohydrate-degrading enzymes produced by B. thetaiotaomicron are predicted to be secreted into the periplasmic or extracellular space and thus, in principle, are capable of liberating oligo- and monosaccharides from undigested dietary polysaccharides and host mucus for consumption by B. thetaiotaomicron, other members of the microbiota, or the host…”
And now we have monosaccharides being liberated for consumption of the “host.” Did anyone other than Duane miss that? He won’t admit that he has been wrong for the past year. Is it that he has an emotional investment in being right and not admitting the possibility of having made a mistake? So much for his academic and intellectual integrity! He has moved from being mistaken, to being dishonest….and I still don’t believe that he is stupid or mind-blind.
For anyone who has been trashed and invalidated by Duane in previous posts on this or other forums, feel free to use the information on these posts accordingly to correct his errors.
musashi


 

 

Kittycat

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #106 on: 23/10/2005 23:56:09 »
Dear Falariel,

I am sorry to hear of your difficulties with glyconutrition.
I can relate to your frustration and have had my own to deal with off and on.

When I first learned of glyconutrients I was thrilled at the science and results.
I rushed to help a family member with astrocytoma grade 3 brain cancer and a friend with GBM grade four brain cancer at the same time.
While trying to save their lives with this technology (at my own expense, time and money)
I went through a lot of ups and downs, both emotionally and financially.
The end result was they both lost their battle, however they both had more time with their families and had a peaceful death.  I believe this was a direct result of them using glyconutrition.

At that same time I was also aware of a friend with TBI, (traumatic brain injury) and though he was in a vegetated state, he was starting to show rapid signs of improvement after the family added glyconutrition to his diet.
His progress in a nutshell was coming from a vegetated state, to now talking in complex terms, eating every thing instead of being tube fed, having control of his body, and he is now starting to be trained to walk again. A recent brain scan confirmed new brain tissue development.
As you can imagine, (since I was going through all of this at the same time) this was more than I could sort through.
While I was deeply grieved at losing my loved ones at the same time I was rejoicing at the recovery in progress with this young man.
I almost gave up hope that glyconutrition could help anyone. I am glad that I didn't and so are many others. Though not all will get the miracle they may be looking for, I believe all can benefit to one degree or another. I would be happy to talk more about this if you want to.
I believe (through personal results) that you can increase absorption through various avenues.

My own family has benefited while using glyconutrition and have either recovered partially or fully from:
Severe seasonal and bee sting allergies, gout, nerve damage, herpes, shingles, chronic fatigue, and other various health issues.
If I can help please free to email me God bless, KC


His grace is sufficient and His strength is made perfect in my weakness
« Last Edit: 04/02/2006 01:32:28 by Kittycat »
 

Offline loweduane

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #107 on: 24/10/2005 04:57:51 »
FYI is "Musashi" from the curezone.com glyconutrient support forums.  Since he is posting his old posts from that forum here, I will copy my reply.  Those interested in the results of glyconurtients and not interested in the science of glyconutrients need not read further.

______________________________________
I apologize to Musashi.

I am so used to him repetitively bringing up things and quoting research that have nothing to do with making his point that I didn't read his previous posts in close enough detail. Good job Musashi, there is hope for you yet.

Thanks for the information on B. Thetaiotamicron. Now there is a fascinating little creature. I have perused further literature on this bug, and you are correct, it does have the capability of hydrolyzing beta-linked polysaccharides and is found in approx. 92% of the human population in the distal small intestine and the colon, often in amounts that are greater than e.coli. So it is feasible that at least some of the monosaccharides could be absorbed for glycoconjugate synthesis.

Again, let me reiterate, if the "bird flu" were to hit America tomorrow, we would both be recommending the same ingredients to our friends to support their immune system. We both believe in the benefits of these ingredients, we just disagree on the mechanism.

Now, if you read through my post of 9/30/2005 11:15:00 AM (13 days ago) "Re: Try reading and accurately responding to my post." you will note that I outlined MANY problems with Mannatech's hypothesis that show it is not a rational hypothesis as a mechanism of action for these substances, even if some of the sugars are absorbed. Mannatech's explanation has multiple problems at multiple levels, not just the digestion one. (and I'm not going to even cover the fallacy of us being "deficient" in these sugars)

So let's say that this micro-organism does indeed hydrolize these ingredients into monosaccharides.

* We already know that these glyconutrient ingredients all cause a substantial increases in SCFA's, so a large amount are being metabolized by this microorganism and the many others that live in the distal intestines. So a large amount would not be available for absorption. How much is being lost here? 50%, 60%, 90% of the dose?

* Lets say that 100% is being liberated for absorption (which we have the research to show isn't happening). A one teaspoon dose of Ambrotose contains 1.76g of "ambrotose complex." (.44g per 1/4 tsp recommended serving). This then would contain: (ingredient followed the the saccharides that it is made of)

- 48% Larch Arabinogalactan (~850 mg)
- --arabinose, galactose
- 10% Manapol (~176 mg)
- --mannose
- 10% Gum Tragacanth (~176 mg)
- --galactose, arabinose, xylose, fucose, rhamnose, galacturonic acid
- 10% Gum Ghatti (~176 mg)
- --arabinose, galactose, mannose, xylose, glucuronic acid
- 10% Glucosamine HCL (~176 mg)
- --glucosamine
- 12% Rice starch (~211 mg)
- --Glucose

As an example, when you consider that Galactose is produced at a rate of about 0.53-1.05 mg/kg per hour, equivalent to ~850mg to 1760 mg per day of just this one sugar in fasting adult men (Berry 1995), and constant levels of fucose are found in urine of both adults and children (Endo 1980). The levels of each monosaccharide that this supplement provides is ridiculously miniscule when you consider that the largest percentage of it is galactose and glucose, which are not usually low in the human diet anyway.

(Berry GT, Nissim I, Lin Z, Mazur AT, Gibson JB, Segal S. Endogenous synthesis of galactose in normal men and patients with hereditary galactosaemia. Lancet. 1995 Oct 21;346(8982):1073-4. Endo M, Matsue H, Sato S, Majima M, Hiyama N. Enzymic determination of urinary free L-fucose. Clin Chim Acta. 1980 May 9;103(3):269-75.)

Clinical studies of these sugars most often used gram amounts to see physiological effects. The pharmacokinetic section of the glycoscience.com website repetitively states "It is difficult to determine what a minimum amount of ______ (insert your favorite saccharide here) should be as a dietary supplement, since dose-response data for ______ health effects are again lacking."

Since the amounts of some of these sugars in each polysaccharide is just a small part of the whole, (such as fucose only a small fraction of Tragacanth) the actual amount of each sugar is extremely minute. And that is presupposing that (1) the hundreds of microorganisms that are present don't metabolize it first, and (2) it is liberated in the distal small intestine where it can still be absorbed (as opposed to the colon where it is unlikely to be absorbed). But we already know that a substantial amount of these sugars are being metabolized by the microorganisms, including B. Thetaiotamicron, so the amounts of sugar from these ingredients would be extremely small.

Again, as I stated before, you have to ask some significant questions:

* If 8 sugars are necessary (though 2 of them, glucose and galactose are readily found in the diet) why make a supplement with only 6 of the sugars, and only 4 of them which are not as readily found in the diet instead of all 8? Especially since the glycoscience.com website goes out of its way to show they (the individual monosaccharides)are all absorbed when taken orally.

* Why use one of the most expensive forms of Aloe Vera which has the longest chains of acemannan (beta-linked mannose polysaccharide), when individual Mannose has been shown to be absorbed and is readily available. If it was the mannose having the effect, then lower molecular weight aloe extracts should work better because there is less to break down, or better yet D-Mannose powder.

* If you elect to not use the actual monosaccharides for the supplement (which wouuld produce better absorption), and if there is difficulty digesting these polysaccharide ingredients, why not either add simple enzymes to the mixture that would break these ingredients into the monosaccharides in the small intestine and make more of them available for absorption. These are readily available as supplements on the internet.

* If Glucose and galactose are not deficient in the diet according to most of the papers on glycoscience.com, why is this supplement more than 50% galactose/glucose?

* Not one glycoprotein (glycoconjugate) has been shown to be increased by taking these supplements, and the amounts of sugars possibly absorbed is extremely small, (if any gets past the microorganisms), yet there is a large amount of research showing known effects of these supplements on human physiology that doesn't involve glycoconjugate synthesis, so why continue to hold to the 8 sugar hypothesis as the main mechanism when it has the least support (if any)?

The reason this company doesn't use the 8 individual sugars in their supplement is because the 8 individual sugars WILL NOT have the physiological effects that these complex polysaccharides have. Because the effects are not secondary to improving sugar availability. I have already pointed out that mannose, xylose, glucose, galactose, glucosamine and fucose are readily available on the internet. Try a combination of these and see how many people it helps.

Check out articles such as "Schiffrin EJ, Donnet A, Blum S. How can we impact the immune system with pre- and probiotics?
Nestle Nutr Workshop Ser Clin Perform Programme. 2005;10:203-13; discussion 213-7. Review. No abstract available." and "Lochs H. Interaction between nutrition, intestinal flora and the gastrointestinal immune system.
Nestle Nutr Workshop Ser Clin Perform Programme. 2005;10:179-85; discussion 185-8. Review. No abstract available." as well as many, many others.

Studies have shown that various combinations of different soluble fibers can change the relative amounts of each SCFA produced, and may be another way that the specific combination of ingredients found in MT's main glyconutritional supplement. Also, the complexity of these soluble fibers (such as arabinogalactan, manapol) make it an effective prebiotic much farther along the colon than the FOS and inulin which are almost totally metabolized in the 1st part of the colon (cecum), which would give them physiological effects along greater areas of the immune tissues associated with the intestine. There are other effects of these substances as well, such as increasing activity and amount of antioxidant enzymes in the mucosa and the liver, and decreasing circulating free fatty acids, and more. (free fatty acids decrease insulin sensitivity for one thing).

I do greatly appreciate the article on this microorganism that I was unaware of, and I have been fascinated reading the details of this organism (did you know that this microorganism will cause your own intestinal mucosa to produce the fucose the bacteria can eat when there is no other food around. Otherwise your intestinal mucosa normally stops producing fucose after it matures.) However, by this far into the diegestive tract, and because the microorganisms in the digestive tract are known to metabolize a lot of these substances (if not most), the amount that would be absorbed would be miniscule at best. SO WHY USE THESE INGREDIENTS IF YOU ARE REALLY DEFICIENT IN THESE SUGARS???

Remember, we are not discussing IF they work, just how. Ask yourself What is your vested interest in the 8 sugar hypothesis? Start from the beginning, look at all the facts and research, or the lack thereof. If you didn't know the 8 sugar hypothesis that MT promotes, what conclusions would you draw? Would you still come to their conclusion? What if you weren't an associate of this company, and weren't making money by selling the "8 sugar deficiency" hypothesis, would you still hold so tenaciously to an hypothesis which has almost no support when so many other mechanisms have already been elicited that explain many of the benefits?

Good luck

P.S. I'm in the process of writing a paper on glyconutrients, the myths and mechanisms, and the information on the B. Thetaiotamicron is very helpful, thank you very much.

Duane.
 

Offline RavynG

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #108 on: 24/10/2005 19:58:02 »
hello.
I have Hereditary Coproporphyria, possibly Harderoporphyria (a subset), and a mixed DX of Varigated Porphyria--I inherited it from BOTH parents. It is a genetic disorder of the Heme pathway--means the stuff that makes blood red and binds oxygen to my cells is not complete due to a molecule(or two) missing in the pathway. Hemoglobin itself cannot bind oxygen--it has to have a protein ring that 'grabs' the molecule and carries it--my rings are not complete because the basic building blocks are not there. So the rings break down and become useless--toxic. Anything that stimulates the cytochrome p450 response in my liver is bad news as this engages this process and causes even more toxins released into my body. They collect along nerves and create Peripheral Neuropathy that can be life-threatening if it involves nerves in my respiratory system. Usually it involves automnic nerves and CNS. I suffer the effects of not enough oxygen on a cellular level and also the poisoning of the nerves.
Triggers range from dietic to environmental to chemical. It is a very difficult disease to manage. Glucose is used to slow the metabolic process and it also helps ease the toxic load by flushing the porphyrins out of the body thru the kidneys. Needless to say this will eventually take its toll on the kidneys, adrenals, and pancreas.
So here is my question....will glyconutrients help or hurt me?
it sounds like in theory they could help. However, I cannot afford to be the guinea pig here since it could kill me or cause irreversible damage. My body does not work like a normal body. I do not have something causing my disease--my disease is because I do not have all the molecules I need on a genetic level. Any ideas? Any REAL scientific facts--not just theories?

Se non potete resistere al calore, allora esca dalla MIA cucina.
Ravyn, Lady Heresy
Join my group! for former Jehovahs Witnesses and anyone formerly associated with them! Check out the webpage and follow the links! newbielink:http://www.geocities.com/ladylvsnyt/FormerJehovahsWitnesses.html [nonactive]

 

Offline RavynG

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #109 on: 24/10/2005 20:06:04 »
it just occurred to me--if this particular product is mostly glucose---could it be that the people who are being 'helped' by it may be unDxd Porphyrics? It is a rare disease, but by no means unheard of, and in fact very common in certain parts of the world with hereditary factors (South Africa it is common and traced to one Dutch immigrant in the 1500's).

Se non potete resistere al calore, allora esca dalla MIA cucina.
Ravyn, Lady Heresy
Join my group! for former Jehovahs Witnesses and anyone formerly associated with them! Check out the webpage and follow the links! newbielink:http://www.geocities.com/ladylvsnyt/FormerJehovahsWitnesses.html [nonactive]

 

Offline loweduane

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #110 on: 25/10/2005 07:44:12 »
My opinion based on the pathophysiology of your condition and what is known about glyconutrients, (from a person who has no financial interest in these supplements), is that there is no way to tell what effect they would have on your symptoms.  Any suggestion one way or another would be pure speculation, unless there is someone out there with this rare condition who had a good or bad experience.

Good luck

Duane.
 

Kittycat

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #111 on: 25/10/2005 16:10:45 »
Dear RavynG,

Welcome to the forum. I think you will find what is on this DVD to be very encouraging.
http://glycotools.com/products.asp?p=446
I am aware of several people with genetic disorders that have been help, especially when it is used at a young age.
Will it help you? Will it extend your life and give you a better quality of life? I believe it will. Do glyconutrients give the body the ability to heal it's own DNA? I don't know.  
Some children with genetic disorders have been helped immensely and appear to be experiencing reversal of the condition they were born with.
Let me know if I can help,
God bless, KC

His grace is sufficient and His strength is made perfect in my weakness
« Last Edit: 25/10/2005 16:49:37 by Kittycat »
 

Offline RavynG

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #112 on: 26/10/2005 04:55:52 »
here's the thing--I can understand something restoring the use of an injured or deficient arm....but what if you born without an arm at all? will this grow an arm? Porphyria is not a defective gene--it is a missing gene.
does anyone know if these glyconutrients utilize the cytochrome p450 metabolic pathway in the liver to break down? this is what I have to avoid. where are these sugars digested? how are they used by the cells and where do they go once they are used?


Se non potete resistere al calore, allora esca dalla MIA cucina.
Ravyn, Lady Heresy
Join my group! for former Jehovahs Witnesses and anyone formerly associated with them! Check out the webpage and follow the links! newbielink:http://www.geocities.com/ladylvsnyt/FormerJehovahsWitnesses.html [nonactive]

 

Kittycat

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #113 on: 27/10/2005 16:33:45 »
Hi RG,

I don't think that glyconutrients will be a problem for you since it is a part of our biological make up.
I have sent you 2 files that should help you and your doctor come to the same conclusion.
Let us know how things are going for you,
God bless, KC

His grace is sufficient and His strength is made perfect in my weakness
« Last Edit: 27/10/2005 16:34:37 by Kittycat »
 

Offline RavynG

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #114 on: 27/10/2005 22:00:33 »
thanks KC--I saved it to check it out later when I have more time. The thing I find so frustrating with 'nutritional' supplements and such is that most of the people who 'believe' in them--not saying you do--think that just because they are natural or can be found in the human body that they are safe. Sulfur, Iron, Terpenes--all are 'natural' chemicals, and found in the normal human body and in 'safe' vitamins, supplements and even hygeine products--yet to a person with Porphyria they can kill in a matter of minutes. I have had a bad reaction in the past with aloe--and I understand that mannose is from aloe. I don't KNOW if it was the sugar that caused the reaction---but I also don't know if it is only the sugar used in this product. Some Porphyrics cannot use corn sugar which is the major source of glucose. Alot of my Porph friends have good results with galactose and lactose--but ONLY in milk and ONLY when it is ice cold--if the sugar is taken out these same people react badly to it. So I guess there is no real answer for me. Thank you for trying.

Se non potete resistere al calore, allora esca dalla MIA cucina.
Ravyn, Lady Heresy
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« Last Edit: 27/10/2005 22:02:07 by RavynG »
 

Kittycat

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #115 on: 31/10/2005 23:59:59 »
Hi RG,
What form of Aloe did you use?
I know your situation is a fragile one. I haven't ever heard of any difficulties with glyconutrients even when large quantities are used.
In the meantime I will try to find out more regarding your question.
Let us know how you are doing. Take care, KC

P.S. from what I understand at least five of the eight (essential sugars for humans) are in breast milk. Because of this, it is evident that the body is able to assimilate these sugars, otherwise why would it be there?. Exactly how are they assimilated? I don't think anyones knows that answer yet. Thankfully the body knows.

His grace is sufficient and His strength is made perfect in my weakness
« Last Edit: 01/11/2005 00:01:38 by Kittycat »
 

Offline Anrol

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #116 on: 01/11/2005 14:32:45 »
I heard about glyconutrients this weekend from someone selling the product.  I would like to hear the real scoop from someone not SELLING it, preferably someone in the scientific community who has knowleldge about these 8, so called, magic glyconutrients.  Are they real, do they exist or is this another money making scheme like cortislim, etc.  I have a friend battling cancer but don't want to offer false hope or spend a bundle of money for a placebo.  I found all kinds of information on the internet from sellers, obviously not unbiased.
 

Offline steve477

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #117 on: 07/11/2005 23:49:54 »
Andrew, You clearly have no idea what pyramid sales is! Why dont you look up the definition of Network Marketing and Pyramid Sales. I will explain the difference if you still dont understand.

how can you dis a company that helps so many people both financially and in their health?

quote:
Originally posted by Andrew K Fletcher

Main component of Glyconutrients is revealed by careful analysis.


It consists of  99.9% SPAM

The tins of SPAM are arranged in bulk to form a giant pyramid

This Pyramid emits a ray of  false hope quickly seized upon by thousands of people who are out to earn a quick buck off the backs of people desperate for anything that offers a remote chance of assisting illnesses that are often life threatening and to which allopathic medicine is not producing any significant improvements.

The pyramid has already produced over 89 thousand hits on a google search using its name as a search term and the 16th of May 2005!

There has obviously been a tremendous amount of money generated by this pyramid selling scam, and one would expect that this licence to print money could easily produce and reproduce scientific, placebo based double blinded trials to prove or disprove its efficacy.

Yet this is simply not happening, All we see is the emergence of many unsubstantiated individual case histories, expressing somewhat miraculous claims.

The sad part about this, is that it will inevitably add to the FDA’s and Eurocrats armoury against food supplements, many of which do indeed offer significant benefits to people who wish to avoid the myriad side effects from prescription drugs.

There is a move to have many of our vitamins and food supplements removed from the shelves of health stores, or to have their potency reduced to levels where they are useless, and this scam is playing right into the FDA and Eurocrats arms!  When this SPAM Pyramid bubble burst, and it will! The vultures will simply find another carcass to gorge upon.

I f this product does what it is supposed to do, You won’t even have to change the oil in your engine, houses will build themselves, the dead will rise again, and the deserts will turn green and flourish.

Where is the hard evidence????????????????????????????????????????????


 
Glyconutrients will play a major role in what economists are predicting to be the next trillion-dollar industry- the Wellness Industry. Are you ready to take your piece of the trillion-dollar pie by marketing and educating others about Glyconutrients and their benefits? Anyone who cares about their health and the health of others can be successful in this business if they are teachable, coachable and trainable. Your primary mission is to expose people to this information and let the educational and support tools to educate your prospects about the benefits of the products and the business opportunity. Does that sound like something you can do? And with our team approach, even though you are in business for yourself, you are never by yourself. You'll love the support system.
I remember being roped in to a Foreverliving products seminar, thanks to a friend who would insist that we were going to earn many thousands of pounds with minimum outlay. I told her it was a scam, and sure enough, this guy was trying to convince us that he experienced a miracle or three after taking alovera juice. He apparently healed his injuries, an internal medical problem, all the pain left his body, and he grew a third leg to boot. I had heard enough within a few minutes and we got up and left.. But there were several hundred people that didn’t leave, all with a blank expression shielded by £ signs in their brains.
Another venue when I was a lot younger was Golden Products, this was a range of household cleaning stuff, grossly over priced and sold under a pyramid scheme. My friend and I went to London and stayed in a hotel free of charge. But our reason for being there was to have a day in London at their expense, skipping out on all the bull. We had a great time thanks to them
I ASK AGAIN: WHERE IS THE HARD EVIDENCE FOR THE EFFICACY OF THIS PRODUCT? A quick search on pubmed produced 2 returns, from 2 vague trials, which lead me to ask, where is all the money going????? Maybe they have donated to the Tsunami victims families?

Andrew


 

Offline Kathleen

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #118 on: 09/11/2005 20:03:01 »
I have just recently heard about glyconutrients.  I read a testimony about a Dr. Benjamin Solomon Carson who attributess glyconutrients to curing prostate cancer in himself.  
   The article also said,"One study showed that people who added glyconutrients to their diets developed stem cell from their own bone marrow that resulted in the migration of the cells into damaged organs.  Medical scientists concluded that these new cells replaced damaged or diseased one."
     My question is this:  mydaughter was born with a neuro-muscular disease that makes her muscles so weak that she can't even breathe on her own.  For the last 15 years, she has been in bed on a ventilator.  Could glyconutrients help her?  
     I found a recipe for making my own stuff, since money is always a factor.   How much would she have to take to show an improvement?

 

Offline Eric

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #119 on: 11/11/2005 21:53:44 »
Quick question

Does anyone know the web address of a place to get the gum ghatti?
The other ingredients are easy to find, but the ghatti seems to be harder to find.

I need to find a place that would sell the ghatti to individuals (non business).

Thanx
 

Offline loweduane

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #120 on: 13/11/2005 07:21:04 »
You can try contacting "pilotlight" at the curezone forum.

http://curezone.com/forums/m.asp?f=223&i=1547 [nofollow]

He bought some in large bulk and is making it available for others.

 

Offline FYI

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #121 on: 13/11/2005 16:26:11 »
Did you forget to mention that Pilotlight is making a profit?
His downline is looking pretty hefty.
Thus, we see the birthing of a new network marketing company and a new maketing forum.
It's a beautiful thing.



 

Offline Eric

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #122 on: 13/11/2005 18:01:18 »
Thanks for the response.

Yes, I was aware of the person at curezone.
It's just that I'm not totally comfortable buying from an unknown person on some forum. I was actually hoping to buy from an esatblished business.

Anyway, I read over there at curezone that gum Arabic might sort of be a substitute for the gum Ghatti. But then again, in the new Advanced Ambrotose formula the Gum Arabic (acacia) is the first ingredient, and Gum ghatti is the 6th listed ingredient. So since they include both, the Arabic may not be an exact substitute.

And unfortunately, the Gum ghatti from Spectrum Chemicals is not food grade. So close, yet so far :-)
 

Offline loweduane

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #123 on: 14/11/2005 06:56:08 »
It is an interesting topic.  If you believe the notion that these ingredients supply the "8 essential sugars" and then note which sugars are from each of these ingredients you will find that:

1. Larex deciduas (arabinogalactan)
Providing:  arabinose, galactose (Whister et al. 1970)

2. Anogeissus latifolia (gum ghatti)
Providing: arabinose, galactose, mannose, xylose, glucuronic acid (Merck Index, 1996)

3.   Astragulus gummifer (gum tragacanth)
Providing: galactose, arabinose, xylose, fucose, rhamnose, galacturonic acid (Merck Index, 1996; Davidson et al., 1980)

4.  Manapol (inner leaf gel of Aloe barbadensis Miller)
Providing: mannose (Merck Index, 1996)

5.   Rice starch
Providing: Glucose (Merck Index, 1996)

6.   Glucosamine HCL
Providing: glucosamine (Merck Index, 1996)

NOTE:  That none of the sugars that make up Gum Ghatti are unique.  They are all found in the other ingredients in this product.  Technically you could add a little more of each of the other ingredients, or just leave it out, and take a little more of it to get all of same amounts of these sugars.  

However, if you do not believe in the 8 sugar hypothesis, and note that different combinations of different soluble fibers (which Gum Ghatti, tragacanth, arabinogalactan, manapol are) cause production of different ratios of short chain fatty acids, (which may be what is causing many of the benefits of these substances), then the addition of the specific gum - Ghatti, may in fact be (1) important, and (2) be completely different from other gums.  So any substitution would be a "trial and error" that may or may not work, since they are in the same family, but are NOT the same structure.
 

Offline Eric

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #124 on: 14/11/2005 15:47:14 »
I really have no idea what to believe. I haven't really spent any time on the subject of whether it supplies the 8 individual sugars or not. I once got Robin at newbielink:http://www.myglycos.com/ [nonactive] on the phone and asked her about this very question, but she just sounded like a very nice lady who had absolutely no idea.

I also mentioned to her that I was pondering getting the individual ingredients myself, to which she answered that Ambrotose was patented (Hmmm) :-)

The other question I had was whether the Manapol is just an isolated extract of Aloe Vera, or whether it was ALSO chemically broken down into other compounds that the digestive system itself could not accomplish. The reason why I ask is I have a number of Aloe Vera Barbadensis plants that I am growing. I'm hoping that this is a decent substitute for the Manapol, though I'll probably take some manapol anyway (interesting article here - newbielink:http://asktom-naturally.com/naturally/aloenews.html [nonactive]). I'm aware that some compounds oxidize in the Aloe when exposed to air, but I try to avoid that by taking the whole leaf, and then only slicing off a piece each day - as opposed to immediately taking grinding the whole leaf and leaving it all exposed to air for several days.

Probably of little interest to most folks, since most people can't grow this themselves... but it's a hell of alot cheaper.
 

 

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #124 on: 14/11/2005 15:47:14 »

 

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