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Offline DoctorBeaver

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Tonsils and adenoids
« on: 08/02/2008 21:21:39 »
I had mine taken out when I was 4 years old. What function do they serve? (Not mine, obviously, because they no longer serve any function)


 

Offline iko

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« Reply #1 on: 09/02/2008 19:05:44 »
I had mine taken out when I was 4 years old. What function do they serve? (Not mine, obviously, because they no longer serve any function)

Hi Doc,

poor you, a young beaver had to face germs of all sorts without his tonsils and adenoids!  You are doing all right anyway.
I received the same treatment approx. same age...and I survived too.
Imagine tonsils and adenoids (you can only imagine yours!) like a labyrinth of blood vessels and tiny channels of mucosa where air and fluids flow.  Specialized defense cells like macrophages and lymphocytes run in and out again to the circulating blood.  Bacteria and fungi, all sort of germs and viruses are trapped there and 'examined' throughly by macrophages that engulf them and start 'instructing' lymphocytes to mount a proper immune response that will lead to production of specific antibodies and committed 'killer' cells. All this happens thanks to close cell-to-cell contact and production of special inflammatory messengers.
Same defense reactions take place in the spleen and other immune 'filters' like lymphatic glands.  Similar patches of defense tissue are in the gut, appendix is a very well known one.
Sometimes the inflammatory response is exaggerated, germs persist without being eliminated efficiently, so an abscess is produced.
Time to get rid of those infected and useless things.
Same for appendix.

ikoD
« Last Edit: 17/02/2008 19:59:00 by iko »
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #2 on: 09/02/2008 20:33:15 »
So they're just glorified filters? Well I'll be blowed!  :o

Thank you, Iko
 

Offline iko

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« Reply #3 on: 09/02/2008 22:41:09 »
Look what I just found, googleing around
crossing..you know what!
 ;)

Quote

My son has enlarged tonsils... my pediatrician suggested I give him 1 tsp of cod liver oil once a day... my kid is not so much interested in taking the stuff... I know huge shocker! 

anyhow, can someone please tell me why cod liver oil would help?

Thanks
julie

Amitymama chat/forum 12-3-2006  http://www.amitymama.com/vb/amity-mama-market/323625-cod-liver-oil.html
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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Tonsils and adenoids
« Reply #4 on: 10/02/2008 08:46:47 »
My mum used to give me cod liver oil. It didn't stop me getting tonsilitis 3 times in a year  :(
 

Offline iko

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« Reply #5 on: 10/02/2008 17:27:59 »
My mum used to give me cod liver oil. It didn't stop me getting tonsilitis 3 times in a year  :(

Some unfortunate patients are 'cod' resistant and totally unresponsive to any panacea of sort.  Poor things!
I wasn't fed cod liver oil, so I had my tonsils removed.
This is pure scientific evidence:
1 negative case (mine) and this miracle cure is 100% proven!
Take care

ikoD  ;D 
« Last Edit: 10/02/2008 22:24:25 by iko »
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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Tonsils and adenoids
« Reply #6 on: 10/02/2008 17:59:12 »
My mum used to give me cod liver oil. It didn't stop me getting tonsilitis 3 times in a year  :(

Some unfortunate patients are 'cod' resistant and totally unresponsive to any panacea of sort.  Poor things!
I wasn't fed 'cod', so I had my tonsils removed.
This is pure scientific evidence:
1 negative case (of mine) and this miracle cure is 100% proven!
Take care

ikoD  ;D 

Well, you can't argue with that   ;D
 

Offline Karen W.

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« Reply #7 on: 10/02/2008 22:38:57 »
Thats cool. They took my 22 year olds sons tonsils and adenoids out when he was 5 due to multiple ear infections and terrible breathing problems while he slept from extremely bad snoring. They said it would cut down on his ear infections, but it did not. they put in tubes about 6 or 7 times up until he was older then I said no more.. he had built up so much scar tissue that it was starting to cause a hearing loss that was permanent!

So we stopped allowing the surgeries. His ears had one more infection and was treated with antibiotics then that was the last of it. he had 1 more this last year as an adult but was able to clear it quickly. he recognized it before it got bad!

I wish I had known back then about Cod liver oil for the ears.. My gram used it like crazy!
 

Offline iko

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« Reply #8 on: 11/02/2008 18:20:02 »
It's a mysterious field, still...
I posted months ago the only recent positive report about cod liver oil in children -related to common infections- that I was able to dig out through PubMed database.
As usual, it sounds like weak and poor evidence.  [:-[]

Quote
Effect of daily cod liver oil and a multivitamin-mineral supplement with selenium on upper respiratory tract pediatric visits by young, inner-city, Latino children: randomized pediatric sites.

...the effect of daily supplementation with lemon-flavored cod liver oil and a children's multivitamin-mineral supplement containing selenium on the number of pediatric visits by young, inner-city, Latino children from late autumn of 2002 through early spring of 2003. Two private pediatric offices with similar demographics, located 1.1 miles apart in upper Manhattan, New York City, were randomized to a supplementation site and a medical records control site. Ninety-four children (47 at each site), 6 months to 5 years of age, were enrolled.
...
The supplements were well tolerated; per parental report, 70% of children completed the 5- to 6-month course of cod liver oil. Use of these nutritional supplements was acceptable to the inner-city Latino families and their young children, and was associated with a <b>decrease in upper respiratory tract pediatric visits over time</b>; this approach therefore deserves further research and attention.

Linday LA, Shindledecker RD, Tapia-Mendoza J, Dolitsky JN.
Ann Otol Rhinol Laryngol. 2004 Nov;113(11):891-901.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=15562899&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_DocSum

This after just 5-6 months...can you imagine after one or more years?


iko

The recent discovery of natural antibiotic peptides like cathelicidin, actively induced by vitamin D3, will add to the already well-known anti-infectious properties of vitamin A (mainly in the malnourished child).
Anti-inflammatory action of the omega-3 fatty acid (EPA& DHA) could add benefit in the long run.


I forgot to remind you that fish liver oil is mainly vitamin A, D3 and omega-3 fatty acids.
Fish oil is mainly omega-3.




Enjoy theantimicrobial dodecapeptide cathelicidin at:

« Last Edit: 11/02/2008 18:52:08 by iko »
 

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« Reply #9 on: 11/02/2008 19:11:21 »
Thats too bad.. but I think sooner or later there will be some good solid word as to the benifits, thats what I am holding out for.. I do not know if I can tell the difference, but I am taking 4000mg a day upon the Doctors request!
 

Offline iko

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« Reply #10 on: 11/02/2008 22:08:58 »
Thats too bad.. but I think sooner or later there will be some good solid word as to the benifits, thats what I am holding out for.. I do not know if I can tell the difference, but I am taking 4000mg a day upon the Doctors request!

Hey hey Karen,

4000mg of omega-3, no vitamin D3 or vitamin A!
You get the anti-inflammatory effect plus anti-
-aggregation for platelets.
It's vitamin D3 that pilots cathelicidin production
and anti-infectious activity inside macrophages...
I had to make this clear  :D

ikoD
« Last Edit: 11/02/2008 22:11:42 by iko »
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #11 on: 11/02/2008 22:31:35 »
Quote
4000mg of omega-3, no vitamin D3 or vitamin A!
You get the anti-inflammatory effect plus anti-
-aggregation for platelets.
It's vitamin D3 that pilots cathelicidin production
and anti-infectious activity inside macrophages...
I had to make this clear

Yeah, perfectly clear  ???
 

Offline Karen W.

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« Reply #12 on: 11/02/2008 23:17:59 »
Thats too bad.. but I think sooner or later there will be some good solid word as to the benefits, thats what I am holding out for.. I do not know if I can tell the difference, but I am taking 4000mg a day upon the Doctors request!

Hey hey Karen,

4000mg of omega-3, no vitamin D3 or vitamin A!
You get the anti-inflammatory effect plus anti-
-aggregation for platelets.
It's vitamin D3 that pilots cathelicidin production
and anti-infectious activity inside macrophages...
I had to make this clear  :D

ikoD

I am taking something called,
_______________________________________

21st Century

_______________________________________

Dietary supplement
_______________________________________
Heart healthy
Omega-3
essential
fatty acids
_______________________________________
Enteric coated
_______________________________________
FISH OIL
1000 mg (4 a day)
_______________________________________
cholesterol free.reflux free
_______________________________________

Omega-3 fatty acids may reduce
the risk of Coronary Heart Disease*
_______________________________________

90 Enteric coated Softgels
________________________________________

Ingredients

Fish oil concentrate      1000 mg **
EPA(Eicosapentaenoic acid) 180 mg **
DHA(Docosahexaenoic acid)  120 mg **


other ingredients: Gelatin, Glycerin, Purified Water,
Refined Soybean oil, Coating contains one or more of
the following (Sodium Aliginate, Stearic Acid,
Ethylcellulose, Medium Chain Triglycerides, Oleic Acid,
polymethylacrylate,PEG,Talc, Vanillin). This product
contains soy and fish (herring, anchovy, mackeral,
sardine, sprat,and salmon) ingredients.

______________________________________________________________________________________

Thats straight from the bottle!!  I don't see A, or D3, so I take it it is good, eh?  Would it be better to have the D3 and A also..?? I am confused..!!
« Last Edit: 12/02/2008 20:23:10 by Karen W. »
 

Offline iko

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Tonsils and adenoids
« Reply #13 on: 12/02/2008 20:19:31 »

Thats straight from the bottle!!  I don't see A, or D3 so I take it it is good eh or would it be better to have the D3 and A also.. I am confused..??


Hi Karen,

we discussed with Carolyn the difference
between fish oils and fish LIVER oils...
Omega-3 are everywhere in blue fish, but
fat soluble vitamins A and D3 are stocked
highly concentrated in fish LIVER only...
and polar bear livers too!
Too much cod liver oil can easily produce
vitamin A intoxication: if you want to get
>2000 units of vitamin D3 through daily
cod liver oil you'd risk taking too much
vitamin A. As Michael Holick suggests in
that video, 1000 vit.D caps per day plus
a bit of sun exposure (when available)
should be just good for the lot of us.
Daily 'cod' at moderate doses should be
better than nothing, I think.



Hi JimBob,

welcome to the codmaniac thread.
There is a difference between fish LIVER oils
and simple fish oils:

Quote
Hi Carolyn! Thanks for calling...
Cod liver oil is not exactly like fish oil


Note:
fish liver oils contain vit.A+Vit.D3+omega-3 fatty acids.
fish oilscontain omega-3 fatty acids mainly.

Vit.A&Vit.D3 are fat-soluble and do accumulate in the body: doses higher than reccomended may lead to toxicity.

iko

So when you give fish oil you are giving omega-3 fatty acids mainly.
Omega-3 may have amazing effects on the human brain and they are currently being tested in patients with bipolar disorder (a type of psychotic depression): there are positive and negative reports, as usual. They just started few years ago...it is a promising field.
There is an interesting book about this by a pharmacology professor, Andrew L. Stoll:

http://www.amazon.com/Omega-3-Connection-Groundbreaking-Anti-depression-Program/dp/0684871386

In proper doses you may be sure to give good nutrients (they come from the sea plankton!) and no toxicity. Even if they don't work, your kid will be safe and well nourished.
I don't know ADHD enough to reccomend anything, but speaking of nutritional supplement and reminding the paper cited at the beginning of this topic, I would suggest to alternate fish oil with CLO.
Vitamin D has also positive effects on the brain.
Check carefully expiring date and storage reccomended conditions: these oils may go rancid quick.

Control of the nervous system

Vitamin D3 actions in the nervous system include induction of Vitamin D Receptor content (VDR is expressed in the brain and on several regions of the central and peripheral nervous system), the conductance velocity of motor neurons, and the synthesis of neurotrophic factors, such as nerve growth factors and neurotrophyns, that prevent the loss of injured neurons. Vit.D3 also enhances the expression of glial cell line-derived neurotrophic factor, a potential candidate for treatment of Parkinson's disease.
In addition to increased nerve growth factor, combined treatment with Vit.D3 and 17beta-estradiol in rats elicits neuroprotective effects after focal cortical ischemia induced through the photothrombosis model.
Vit.D3 influences critical components of orderly brain development. In the embrionic rat brain, the VDR increases steadly from day 15 to day 23, and Vit.D3 induces the expression of nerve growth factor and stimulates neurite outgrowth in embryonic hippocampal explants and primary cultures.  Low prenatal Vitamin D in utero leads to increased brain size, brain shape, enlarged ventricles, and reduced expression of nerve growth factor in the neonatal rat.
The association of vit.D deficiency and abnormal brain development makes Vitamin D an attractive candidate for tretment of schizophrenia, a disorder resulting from gene-environment interactions that disrupt brain development.
Also, transient prenatal vitamin D deficiency in rats induces hyperlocomotion in adulthood with sever motor abnormalities.

simplified by me from a nice and thick recent review by Adriana S. Dusso and coll.:

Vitamin D
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=15951480&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum

Shortly, there is increasing experimental evidence that vitamin D is just good for the brain.
No negative effects are reported.
Take care
iko

Post Scriptum:
I just found a positive report about ADHD and fish oil. You probably started from this one...let me know.  There are so many references to get lost between papers and scientific reports.
It's in another Forum! What a fantastic gigantic basket this Google is...

http://www.feelgoodforum.com/about1564.html
...

You can scroll these pages to find out specific actions
of these 3 main components of cod LIVER oil:
Vitamin A, vitamin D3, Omega-3 fatty acids.

ikoD
« Last Edit: 12/02/2008 20:35:57 by iko »
 

Offline Karen W.

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« Reply #14 on: 12/02/2008 20:42:21 »

Thats straight from the bottle!!  I don't see A, or D3 so I take it it is good eh or would it be better to have the D3 and A also.. I am confused..??


Hi Karen,

we discussed with Carolyn the difference
between fish oils and fish LIVER oils...
Omega-3 are everywhere in blue fish, but
fat soluble vitamins A and D3 are stocked
highly concentrated in fish LIVER only...
and polar bear livers too!
Too much cod liver oil can easily produce
vitamin A intoxication: if you want to get
>2000 units of vitamin D3 through daily
cod liver oil you'd risk taking too much
vitamin A. As Michael Holick suggests in
that video, 1000 vit.D caps per day plus
a bit of sun exposure (when available)
should be just good for the lot of us.
Daily 'cod' at moderate doses should be
better than nothing, I think.



Hi JimBob,

welcome to the codmaniac thread.
There is a difference between fish LIVER oils
and simple fish oils:

Quote
Hi Carolyn! Thanks for calling...
Cod liver oil is not exactly like fish oil


Note:
fish liver oils contain vit.A+Vit.D3+omega-3 fatty acids.
fish oilscontain omega-3 fatty acids mainly.

Vit.A&Vit.D3 are fat-soluble and do accumulate in the body: doses higher than reccomended may lead to toxicity.

iko

So when you give fish oil you are giving omega-3 fatty acids mainly.
Omega-3 may have amazing effects on the human brain and they are currently being tested in patients with bipolar disorder (a type of psychotic depression): there are positive and negative reports, as usual. They just started few years ago...it is a promising field.
There is an interesting book about this by a pharmacology professor, Andrew L. Stoll:

http://www.amazon.com/Omega-3-Connection-Groundbreaking-Anti-depression-Program/dp/0684871386

In proper doses you may be sure to give good nutrients (they come from the sea plankton!) and no toxicity. Even if they don't work, your kid will be safe and well nourished.
I don't know ADHD enough to reccomend anything, but speaking of nutritional supplement and reminding the paper cited at the beginning of this topic, I would suggest to alternate fish oil with CLO.
Vitamin D has also positive effects on the brain.
Check carefully expiring date and storage reccomended conditions: these oils may go rancid quick.

Control of the nervous system

Vitamin D3 actions in the nervous system include induction of Vitamin D Receptor content (VDR is expressed in the brain and on several regions of the central and peripheral nervous system), the conductance velocity of motor neurons, and the synthesis of neurotrophic factors, such as nerve growth factors and neurotrophyns, that prevent the loss of injured neurons. Vit.D3 also enhances the expression of glial cell line-derived neurotrophic factor, a potential candidate for treatment of Parkinson's disease.
In addition to increased nerve growth factor, combined treatment with Vit.D3 and 17beta-estradiol in rats elicits neuroprotective effects after focal cortical ischemia induced through the photothrombosis model.
Vit.D3 influences critical components of orderly brain development. In the embrionic rat brain, the VDR increases steadly from day 15 to day 23, and Vit.D3 induces the expression of nerve growth factor and stimulates neurite outgrowth in embryonic hippocampal explants and primary cultures.  Low prenatal Vitamin D in utero leads to increased brain size, brain shape, enlarged ventricles, and reduced expression of nerve growth factor in the neonatal rat.
The association of vit.D deficiency and abnormal brain development makes Vitamin D an attractive candidate for tretment of schizophrenia, a disorder resulting from gene-environment interactions that disrupt brain development.
Also, transient prenatal vitamin D deficiency in rats induces hyperlocomotion in adulthood with sever motor abnormalities.

simplified by me from a nice and thick recent review by Adriana S. Dusso and coll.:

Vitamin D
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=15951480&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum

Shortly, there is increasing experimental evidence that vitamin D is just good for the brain.
No negative effects are reported.
Take care
iko

Post Scriptum:
I just found a positive report about ADHD and fish oil. You probably started from this one...let me know.  There are so many references to get lost between papers and scientific reports.
It's in another Forum! What a fantastic gigantic basket this Google is...

http://www.feelgoodforum.com/about1564.html
...

You can scroll these pages to find out specific actions
of these 3 main components of cod LIVER oil:
Vitamin A, vitamin D3, Omega-3 fatty acids.

ikoD

Why am I on 4000 mg?? I know they told me it thins the blood also..! Is that true?
 

Offline iko

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« Reply #15 on: 12/02/2008 20:55:23 »
Quote
Why am I on 4000 mg?? I know they told me it thins the blood also..! Is that true?

Yes Karen it is true,

high doses of omega-3 fatty acids are reported to have anti-inflammatory power and platelet anti-aggregation properties (referred as blood thinners), plus other misterious effects on our brainlets
  ???

ikoD
« Last Edit: 12/02/2008 20:57:00 by iko »
 

Offline Karen W.

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« Reply #16 on: 12/02/2008 20:57:06 »
Mysterious effects??? Do tell?
 

Offline iko

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« Reply #17 on: 12/02/2008 20:58:32 »
Mysterious effects??? Do tell?

How can I tell anybody what is a mystery to me?  ;D
...wait wait, me go to my favourite data base!
seeyah


Yes, a link for ADHD and omega-3 is in a previous post up here.
Down here I stick a very recent positive report about omega-3 in
major depression. Always smart news from Australia;)


Comparison of therapeutic effects of omega-3 fatty acid eicosapentaenoic acid
 and fluoxetine, separately and in combination, in major depressive disorder.


Jazayeri S, Tehrani-Doost M, Keshavarz SA, Hosseini M, Djazayery A, Amini H, Jalali M, Peet M.Roozbeh Psychiatry Hospital, Department of Psychiatry, School of Medicine, Tehran University of Medical Sciences, Tehran, Iran.

Objective: To compare therapeutic effects of eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA), fluoxetine and a combination of them in major depression. Method: Sixty outpatients with a diagnosis of major depressive disorder based on DSM-IV criteria and a score >/=15 in the 17-item Hamilton Depression Rating Scale (HDRS) were randomly allocated to receive daily either 1000 mg EPA or 20 mg fluoxetine, or their combination for 8 weeks. Double dummy technique was used to double blind the study. Patients were assessed at 2 week intervals. Change in HDRS was the primary outcome measure. Results: Analysis of covariance for HDRS at week 8 across treatment groups was performed in 48 patients who completed at least 4 weeks of the study, with the last observation carried forward. Treatment, age of onset and baseline HDRS had a significant effect on HDRS at week 8. EPA + fluoxetine combination was significantly better than fluoxetine or EPA alone from the fourth week of treatment. Fluoxetine and EPA appear to be equally effective in controlling depressive symptoms. Response rates (>/=50% decrease in baseline HDRS) were 50%, 56% and 81% in the fluoxetine, EPA and combination groups, respectively. Conclusions: In the present 8 week trial EPA and fluoxetine had equal therapeutic effects in major depressive disorder. EPA + fluoxetine combination was superior to either of them alone.

Aust N Z J Psychiatry. 2008 Mar;42(3):192-8.





 I cited months ago a nice book by Andrew L. Stoll:

"The Omega-3 Connection: The Groundbreaking Anti-depression Diet and Brain Program"
 

Me liked it and used some bits and pieces here and there in this forum too!  ;D
« Last Edit: 17/02/2008 14:19:44 by iko »
 

Offline Karen W.

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« Reply #18 on: 12/02/2008 22:47:15 »
Sounds like a neat book.. Me likes what they say to. Thanks for the write up Iko.. Maybe it has some basis as I think it actually has helped me some to.. I have been depressed for a very long time and with the medication and perhaps this.. I have been feeling better that way.. but never thought to offer up thanks to the omega three for helping ease symptoms. Cool Iko.. Interesting info!
 

Offline rosalind dna

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« Reply #19 on: 28/04/2008 12:42:10 »
I had my tonsils and adenoids taken out at 3 years-old because I kept on having bad tonsilitis.
But they are like our appendix which we can live without as I know some people, who've had theirs removed all they do is to filter the germs and bugs but our body's antibodies help there too.
 

Offline iko

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« Reply #20 on: 28/04/2008 18:10:39 »
I had my tonsils and adenoids taken out at 3 years-old because I kept on having bad tonsilitis.
But they are like our appendix which we can live without as I know some people, who've had theirs removed all they do is to filter the germs and bugs but our body's antibodies help there too.

Hi rosalind dna,

sorry for your tonsils.
To be included in our case-study, you must declare whether you were fed cod liver oil or not!

ikoD  ;)
 

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