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Author Topic: Negative freedom  (Read 6677 times)

sooyeah

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Negative freedom
« on: 16/02/2008 12:29:03 »
I realise actually that in a negative freedom society, you cannot have a democracy.

WHY? Well think about it. in a negative freedom society, ideas that are not exceptable must be suppressed.

But how do you suppress an idea, you cant really, so what that means is- you suppress the minds that have the ideas.

But not only that you also need to know who is thinking what, which means everyone in a negative freedom society has to be under surveillance.

And once you have been jotted down as a person with bad ideas, your brain is suppressed, the system demands it, why? to prevent revolution.

How do you suppress a brain? Well you either have to stop it working correctly this can be done by either druging it or by not allowing it to grow properly. Now both take alot of work.

Far easier to drive a person crazy, increase the pressure in a person life till they crack, then they go to professionals and get medicated.

There are many reasons for this but I shall list 3

1. The person who has a break down has a lot more trouble in thinking and trusting their thoughts.

2. Once on medication, your are a non-thinker(zombie).

3. And the most important, Who listens to a crazy person?

 not forgetting that some kill themselves of course

Understands ladies and gentlemen with the acceptance of negative freedom, Democracy died.

But not just democracy- freedom, human rights, law and order itself- AS Negative freedom actively promotes lawlessness, state sponsored lawlessness.

The system itself stands and works against all human rights laws. Why do you think Britain and America are so against the human rights laws?  Because they are both negative freedom societies.

And that travesty of a system, they wanna role out around the world. That system is an abhorrence of everything I was brought up to believe in.

Democracy is dead and the greatest tragedy is that the Two countries that were meant to protect it Britain and America, are the very two that have destroyed it. FOR SHAME!

What a perfect system it plants its flag and says negative freedom is the best system there can be, and anyone who would argue any differently, well they are a threat and need to be suppressed.

But understand in Negative freedom there is no freedom, how can there be? For the moment you start supressing ideas, freedom is lost. And this at a time when humanity needs all it's brain power to solve the many comming problems.

know this if you believe in the rule of law and in freedom and democracy, you are an enemy to negative freedom, and negative freedom will treat you accordingly.

I look to Europe for some hope.

Dead man posting. But so be it!

A word to the brown hair, in Hitlers world the blond rules. But don't worrie Brown hair you can wait tables and shine shoes and your children and their children can too, the brown haired Nazi fights for his own enslavement.
« Last Edit: 17/04/2008 17:22:38 by JOLLY »


 

Offline Soul Surfer

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Negative freedom
« Reply #1 on: 17/02/2008 10:53:46 »
Thank goodnes we do not live in a "negative freedom" society!   

They'll be around with your medication soon.

 ;D
« Last Edit: 17/02/2008 10:55:19 by Soul Surfer »
 

sooyeah

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Negative freedom
« Reply #2 on: 06/03/2008 12:17:35 »
Thank goodnes we do not live in a "negative freedom" society!   

They'll be around with your medication soon.

 ;D

Well howz that soul surfer? As you say, we dont live in a negative free society. :)
 

sooyeah

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Negative freedom
« Reply #3 on: 17/04/2008 17:31:40 »
Have to add actually that there is something even worse about negative freedom.

And itīs this:

īNegative Freedomī demands that power be given to the market.

Right, now who takes power there? Some will say "well, no-one does itīs in the market"

No, sorry the invisible hand does not exist, power isnīt going to just hang in the air, so who has it?

"well I suppose the people with the most influence in the market, the Corporations for example"

Fine, who are they? Iīm not asking for names, who are they, and by that I mean, what sort of people are they?

And the answer is, that they could be anyone.

Could you be, anymore stupid?

Anyone. From best to worst.
 
 

sooyeah

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Negative freedom
« Reply #4 on: 17/04/2008 19:21:53 »
I realise actually that in a negative freedom society, you cannot have a democracy.


Sorry everyone, I do realise that to some I cross a sanity line when posting this, the man loves that though.
If it was easily proved it wouldn't work. But how do you prove it? I merely ask you to check the theory:- If ideas need to be suppressed to protect society and prevent revolution, How do you suppress them?
Because we more or less have a free press, So ask yourself, what happens to people that have ideas considered dangerous (donīt forget we donīt know which ideas are ok and which are not) the only people that know that, are those responsible for maintaining the negative free society; not forgeting those ideas change, what is ok today, may not be tomorrow and vice-verser.

I claim, that should you hold ideas considered bad, they force you on to medication, to dum you down. and that that is the reality of idea suppression, within a negatively free society.

I merely ask that you check the theory, and then ask yourself, how can you suppress an idea? 
 

Offline science_guy

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Negative freedom
« Reply #5 on: 19/04/2008 22:06:15 »
I see a problem with this theory:

in a society without free thinkers, you wouldn't have scientists, since the science of anything usually requires free thinking.  and since a majority of the site members here are either from britian or america, that leaves a bit of a hole in that theory.

or am I crazy?
 

sooyeah

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Negative freedom
« Reply #6 on: 12/06/2008 14:30:19 »
I see a problem with this theory:

in a society without free thinkers, you wouldn't have scientists, since the science of anything usually requires free thinking.  and since a majority of the site members here are either from britian or america, that leaves a bit of a hole in that theory.

or am I crazy?

It's not free thinking, it's thinking in a way which is considered dangerous to the system.
Berlin has made a cave theory, politicians, the security service, business men and women all live in the cave, as do the general populous.
If they have ideas which threaten the fabric of the cave, or act in a way that also threatens the fabric of the cave, they are dealt with, in a number of different ways, which vary depending on who they are and where they sit.

If your famous for example, they may simply say 'shut up or you loss everything' for the common man, they may just kill you, in a way that you can't be proven, heart attack, cancer, run over by a bus, suicide.
A few people sit out side the cave, they are the elite, the real rulers of this world, they run the coporations and control the politicans.
The men and women who go around supressing the general populous are the security service, they are solders, they do as they are told, 'you see that guy over there, he's a murderer or B or a C, go deal with him', he probably won't be any of them, he's just a guy that thinks things the elite consider dangerous, and the security services just do as they are told, no questions soldier, if we say he's a terrorist you believe us, 'well if you say so, it must be true'- so they use the normal cave bees to deal with the normal cave workers.
Other members of society including the security service, are dealt with by the other group.
 
The whole system is about maintaining the Stauts-Quo, that's it, no revolution, that's why Berlin wrote it, to stop revolution, he caused a revolution to happen in order to implement it- the negative free society, the ends justify the means and all that.

Berlin made a cave system, and just institutionalised the means of suppression by which the cave doesn't fall, you are all in there people- The Matrix. It's not so cleaver, anyone who is a threat to the cave is suppressed, so the cave won't fall, what a genius. The system just asks that the forms of suppression used be varied and extremely hard to prove, for if they were not, it wouldn't work.

The problem as always is people, and the sad reality is that the people who are there enforcing the system, just stop respecting the cave dwellers completely, corruption takes over, it just gets worse and worse.
Marx wanted rid of the cave completely, Berlin embraced it. Heres the point, Communism would work, if everyone did what they were supposed to, but they don't do they. Negative freedom is no different, both Berlin and Marx fall at the same hurdle.

There's a famous book called 'The Death of History' this book really is all about Negative Freedom, that's what Negative Freedom wants, everything to stay the same.

And I say any system which stagnates, will destroy itself, or be destroyed. The death of history? History is a steam train that's gonna run Negative Freedom down like a dog. The real question is how bad is it gonna get before that happens? The inherent injustice of negative freedom is there from it's inception, that injustice just increases with corruption.
Here's the line Ladies and Gents, the sales line:- How can we support a system that promotes that kind of injustice? Well what's the alternative? Millions die in horrible revolution? Let's just 'suppress'(sounds so tame doesn't it) the few, it's a little bad that stops a big one. There's the sales pitch people, please see it for what it is.
If only the people Berlin wanted suppressed were dealt with, it would still be wrong, but through the corruption that is inevitable, how many others end up on that ever increasing list? How far away has it gone?

Moving on:-

Lets look at some of the lies, Gordon Brown is credited with giving the Bank of England independence, he may have signed the paper agreeing it, but the idea is Berlins:- Give power to the market.

Bill Clinton is credited with residing over one of the biggest expansions in the US economy and again he really had nothing to do with it, it's Negative freedom in action.

And truly in many ways the whirl wind humanity is reaping today is also a result of negative freedom. But then how could it not be? Negative freedom is the very foundation of our first world.

This system, Negative Freedom truly go's against all notions for law and justice, the people who enforce it, no-doubt have lots of lies they tell themselves, about protecting the people, working for law and order etc, none of that is actually true.
The system purely and simply, is a system of control and suppression, so that the few who dominate, can dominate easier. Affluence, the whole dam thing is about affluence.

What am I fighting for? Well right now, better rights for cave dwellers, a bit more respect from the Affluent, to those, on whom they depend(but also for those they do not). And a request to look for and to consider, a better way.
 
But how can we even be sure, they would even want to listen? Wouldn't many of them just say 'if I'm still affluent things are OK?' Must add You can have the most noble of intencions when making a big brother state, but once in place, if a nut takes the reins- BIG BROTHER HATES CARPET or worse. 

By the way that anarchist, really, is just a guy who cares, wants a nicer planet, he has looked around and found anarchism, but I tell you now, really, he isn't one, no need for suppression, have a chat. "Where's the money in that jolly?" - "What ever sadist! What would Nancy say? 'Some living'"
If he is extreme and tries to do something dangerous then lock him up, we have laws for that.
But to suppress him, drug him up, drive him crazy, make up lies and get him put into prison on rubbish, or to kill him, just in case he might do something?:- Who is the criminal there? That is the prosecution of 'thought crime' without trial. Could you be any further away from justice?

So to answer Sci-guy
It's not thinking, it's what you think about that matters. please do not forget that your place in society affords you more rights of thought also. You would only be suppressed if you worked in a needed profession, if you started to act in a way that was considered bad for the system etc, etc. I hope that clears it up for you. Please all note that today, by reading this thread you are probably on the list, should you be asked, reply- 'Jolly is a nutter'.

PS: You may wish to read and then watch this:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trap_%28television_documentary_series%29
« Last Edit: 18/06/2008 12:32:42 by JOLLY »
 

sooyeah

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Negative freedom
« Reply #7 on: 15/06/2008 16:41:25 »
Just looking at and considering the whole cave thing.

Marx clearly said to himself 'if you have a cave you always have problems and suppression'. So he kinda said 'the only answer is to remove the cave, but then what happens to the elite? "Oh they go bye bye and it's a good thing to, coming round here stealing me sandwiches" :D (marx never said that) anyway'
Berlin really tries to pad the cave, he adds some cushions- to use an analogy.

I actually don't have a problem with having an "Elite" That is to say, "I don't have a problem with 'a ruling group'", I do have a problem with a bunch of arrogant idiots who think they can treat people how ever they want to(not to say they are all thus). An enlighten person surely would see why.

So looking at this 'cave problem', I kinda want a caveless society with a ruling group. I do believe this is achievable. It does however require that the ruling group actually have alot more consideration and respect for those over whom they rule, it is in the end, the only way it could happen.
 
And in some ways it does leave me to ponder wether Marx and Berlin looked at humanity in an incredably negative way, both seem to believe any elite will always end up bad, Berlin tries to tame them in a small way and fails. Marx wants rid of them completely; So I'm going to Love them.
I do see the horror some of the Elite, inflict on the world ladies and gents don't think I don't, and I still care about them. Why? Silly question. 

All the time you have a cave, all the time there's the chance of it falling down.

And now for something completely different:-
NR=1
« Last Edit: 17/06/2008 13:39:34 by JOLLY »
 

sooyeah

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Negative freedom
« Reply #8 on: 18/06/2008 12:50:21 »
Just as a closer:

Nicolas Sarkosy- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcosy

Has just come out saying that the biggest threat to France is from Terrorism. And so France needs to increase spending and change tactics etc.

Where is he taking France? Well to a true negative freedom society that's where.

I predict that mental health problems in France are about to get alot worse.

And that rather than Stopping terrorism, this agenda will actually cause it. Why?

Because when a bomb go's off in France, which it now, no-doubt will, at some point over the next few years, the people who put it there will actually be the very security service that claims it's protecting the people. Why?

For a few reason, of which I will list a couple:

1. To scare the populous
2. To get more funding
3. To get more authoritarian laws passed which makes there(the negative freedom enforcers) life easier.

There are more, by the way, some will relate to things happening at the time they go off.

The whole thing's a joke. But before you sell out your people completely, Mr Sarkosy, Maybe you would like the listen to this: 

What a sad day it is, when a little Englishman, cares more for the French, than there own President.
 

sooyeah

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Negative freedom
« Reply #9 on: 22/07/2008 13:20:01 »
                         The Ebb and Flow

Once upon a time there were a race of men, some were stronger, some more intelligent etc etc, They lived in small groups throughout there planet. They learnt and built and eventually started living together in cities.
Now the "leaders" of this race considered themselves more important than all the other members of the society and they treated the other members of the society very badly, and so some of the members of the society rebelled.
 
So the "leaders" thought up horrible punishments to stop the other members of society rebelling, but it didn't work and sometimes it often made the situation worse; And the leaders(let's call them the elite) were over thrown and new elites took their place, but then the new elite started to do the same thing the old elite did and it just kept going round in a horrific cycle- and so nothing really changed.

"I know, lets pretend we don't exist, that way we'll never be removed" Some of the elite said to themselves, so they thought up lies to tell people, and so political revolutions came and went, new laws were passed and society as a whole became more civilised; But the elite didn't change at all. [:-'(]

The elite learnt more about the world along the way but their opinion of the other members of society stayed the same, and so humanity advanced slowly, certain men with a ground swells of public support pushed through better rights for the other members of society, they got better health care, more protections and rights- To the annoyance of the elite "those little horrid people don't deserve those things" they would say. ???
 
And so after the noble men and women got what they wanted for the other members of society and all became quiet, the elite would sneak around using all there plutocratic power to undo all the hard won gains.
That is how it continued, cave dwelling noblemen would fight and some times win a better situation for everyone- but each time they did the elite would wait till all was quite and then slowly take it back.

The ebb and the flow.

OK now shut your eyes and go to sleep, tomorrow I'll tell you how the Vietnam war really got started. 
« Last Edit: 22/07/2008 13:23:18 by Jo-eyy »
 

sooyeah

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Negative freedom
« Reply #10 on: 22/07/2008 14:20:52 »
                           My life!

Ok so I have been under heavy surveillance for like the last 5 and a half years, they were watching me before that, but it really ramped up five years ago.

For? Really, expressing certain ideas over a phone line- bad ideas? No critical ideas. Then that combined with siting on the tube next to two men one said: "Now we know your MI6 it won't be a problem" I herd and the guy knew I herd- not that I know what he looks like, I made a point of not looking.
But from that day on my life has been heavily watched, and I noticed, I noticed before that day a few times but afterwards I got seriously heavy surveillance on me.

And I had that for 4 years, thats 4 years of wondering wether I'd be comming home each time I left the house, of going to bed wondering if I'd be waking up.
If I had actually done something then they would have done me for it- there only problem, is that I have and always will be law abiding.

So at the end of last year they sleep dep me, in an attempt I believe to get me put in a padded cell, but that failed, and I still walk and post. Don't worry it hasn't stopped they odor me everyday.

I think one of my biggest regrets is, that during that time I actually laid on the floor and said repeatedly "I'm sorry, I'm sorry" Why? because I felt that that treatment couldn't be done to someone, unless they had done something 'that people don't treat you like that for no reason, so whatever it is I'm sorry' But afterwards I realised that that is just not the case, these people don't need a reason, I am very sure some of them do it for sport.

I don't know if any of you saw the 16 year old Canadian kid the Americans sleep dep'd he said 'I have no eyes, I have no feet' Sleep dep on it's own doesn't do that. There experimenting on them- sick isn't the word. And the only reason I even know any of this is because they did it to me. Rape, torture and murder all rolled into one.

That's the problem, the knowledge gained from those experiments is now being used on the general populous.

So I realise that basically The mental home failed, they can't just kill me they have to discredit me first, So I guess that the next option for them is a for them to make up a load of horse crap and put me away in prison.

It's funny I realised that Hurricane Carter wasn't put away by Delapesca, The real person behind his imprisonment, was the rich guy he stabbed as a child. Delapesca just followed orders and got payed for it- maybe he did it for free.

So I'll get my defence ready now, Hows this?

"Your Honer that's rubbish, there is no way I was loading carpet onto the back of a van a 3am some sunday, and even if I was I refuse to believe that Sarkosy, Boris, Gordon Brown and Bill Clinton took a wrong turn on their way back from Mc donalds and saw me-

Travesty! when the whole things wrong and shouldn't go on, it's a travesty!"

"Jolly sit down stop playing the guitar or we'll hold you in contempt"

"I have nothing but contempt your Honer, the only reason I stand here is because I annoyed a bunch of rich guys,    ,and probably almost every security service,   , and a few politicans, and some coporate leaders,  , and a few cults,    , and some other people;  :-\ Travesty! When the whole....."   

My crime, is speaking and thinking freely and honestly in a world where everyone is intimidated to be quite.

And I say the people who have been screwing me over the last five years have no respect for human rights, free speech, the rule of law, democracy, or decency- traitors all! Barbarians the lot of them. Barbarians in suits.

As far as I can tell the only thing these people stand for is themselves, Cowards too none of the seem to stand for what's right, even if some want to.

But then in this mercenary society everything is sacrificed on the alter of greed isn't it.

I am a dead man but before these murdering cowards get rid of me I have to say, 'the lot of them have betrayed everything decent people are meant to stand for'. They'll even gas you in church- beyond Odor.

Where do you go ladies and gents, when the security services wanna screw you over? I wrote to the ministry of defence, the home office and ministry of justice, under the freedom of information act asking for information relating to me, after a month and no reply, I wrote again it's been 9 months since then, not going to get a reply am I.

That's me, slowly disappearing, a lobotomy is murder too.

You snooze you, spend a few months getting over it then when you can, you stand back up and say: "you lose!"

The only question is, how sore a bunch of losers are they?     
« Last Edit: 22/07/2008 14:32:49 by Jo-eyy »
 

WIZBIT_69

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Negative freedom
« Reply #11 on: 09/11/2008 18:52:10 »
I'm sorry to hear that so yeah sounds sad.

I do have a question though.

If God made man free, surely any system that tries to tell people what they can and cannot think is against God and Gods desire for man to be free, isnt it?

Surely no member of the relgious community could agree with it.

To stand against God given freedom is surely to stand against God?

Kinda makes you wonder who is really in charge.
« Last Edit: 09/11/2008 18:57:25 by WIZBIT_69 »
 

WIZBIT_69

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Negative freedom
« Reply #12 on: 09/11/2008 18:56:08 »
Then that combined with siting on the tube next to two men one said: "Now we know your MI6 it won't be a problem"

Just to help you out Sooyeah.

I'd entitle that. 'Little dogie gets taken for a walk and is embarrassingly fed bone in public' then went digging for new owner.

Or maybe you could entitle it 'how to make foreign agent your bitch 101'. ;)
« Last Edit: 09/11/2008 19:03:28 by WIZBIT_69 »
 

lyner

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Negative freedom
« Reply #13 on: 09/11/2008 19:40:36 »
Quote
Ok so I have been under heavy surveillance for like the last 5 and a half years, they were watching me before that, but it really ramped up five years ago.
Are you really that important? What have you that makes you such a thorn in 'their' flesh?
Do you have any influence?
Do you work in a 'restricted' field?
Do you have any idea how much it costs to put someone under surveillance?
Why did they bother?
 

WIZBIT_69

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Negative freedom
« Reply #14 on: 10/11/2008 10:41:35 »
Quote
Ok so I have been under heavy surveillance for like the last 5 and a half years, they were watching me before that, but it really ramped up five years ago.
Are you really that important? What have you that makes you such a thorn in 'their' flesh?
Do you have any influence?
Do you work in a 'restricted' field?
Do you have any idea how much it costs to put someone under surveillance?
Why did they bother?

That's a good question. Maybe he could answer it.

We'll have to ponder.
 

WIZBIT_69

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Negative freedom
« Reply #15 on: 10/11/2008 10:50:34 »
I have another question, for sooyeah actually.

So you claim, that under Negative freedom power is given to the market- To certain business men.

My question is this surely that go's against free market fundamentals, as any business man, given power will use it to keep the power they have and also use it to gain more power, won't they?

So I wonder if this is true, how many small business owners have gone loopy under "stress"?

If as you claim ideas are suppressed and those ideas change, relating to those who run the system; If coke was in control of it, surely anyone who criticised coke or competed with coke, would have a problem?

Not sure about Berlin, this whole negative free system, just seems a bit, contrary to everything our society is meant to stand for.
 

WIZBIT_69

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Negative freedom
« Reply #16 on: 11/11/2008 20:38:52 »
Quote
Ok so I have been under heavy surveillance for like the last 5 and a half years, they were watching me before that, but it really ramped up five years ago.
Are you really that important? What have you that makes you such a thorn in 'their' flesh?
Do you have any influence?
Do you work in a 'restricted' field?
Do you have any idea how much it costs to put someone under surveillance?
Why did they bother?

I have something else to say here actually.

It could well be the case that he did 'nothing'. That meaning not that he didn't do anything but rather that it is not necessarily the case that you have to have done something wrong to get problems.

As an example I would look at Charlie Chaplin. He was given many problems by J Edgar Hoover. Why, what was his crime? Well he annoyed Hoover at a dinner party; That's all, one day at a dinner party Chaplin made a comment which Hoover didn't like and as a result Hoover dedicated his time and resources to giving Chaplin problems.

It is a sad situation, but in this world some men have a lot of power, and we should not forget that they are still men. Who can get annoyed, who can be mean, who can have a power trip- ad infinity.

So it is the case that just making a silly remark at a dinner party could ruin your life. You would hope that those in power were responsible with it, but for every man that is, you can be sure another won't be. I will say this for J Edgar Hoover for although what he did was, I my opinion very wrong, he did in the end have respect for the truth and never engaged in making up lies about Chaplin(he actually believed Chaplin was a communist, but if that dinner party had not happened neither would the problems)- so their is at least in hoover a man of some nobility.

I see that some, in this world, actually think that all people are in some way bad, that no one is decent, that actually we are all in our own way twisted "Camp Freddie every body's bent!"

That is clearly not the case, but I do see how some people, can rationalise being horrible to others under the notion that 'they must have done something'.

So there you go, if it is for some petty reason he has been given all these problems he claims, you can be sure that the person responsible will never admit to it- to do so would show them up straight away, as a child; For should Hoover had been asked he would have said "It had nothing to do with that dinner party, Chaplin was a commie"

But of course the real reason Hoover gave Chaplin problem I believe was this: Hoover fancied Chaplin, and that day at dinner Chaplin showed not only that he didn't fancy Hoover, but even worse didn't like Hoover. So Hoover got upset, and started giving Chaplin problems, that way Hoover could say, well Chaplin doesn't like me because I gave him problems. And therefore Hoover didn't have to think about the real reason why Chaplin didn't like him. Love unrequited, if they had just had a chat for five minutes, properly and honestly, maybe they could have both been at ease; But no and the rest is history.
« Last Edit: 13/11/2008 16:40:43 by WIZBIT_69 »
 

WIZBIT_69

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Negative freedom
« Reply #17 on: 12/11/2008 21:32:31 »
Actually the more I look at this negative freedom idea the more questions I have.

So power is given to the market. So certain companies in different the areas of the market take power. So lets say that there are for example 5 areas to free market economics. Five corporations could if true control a entire country. If those corporation then bought up the needed areas in other countries, they could also own those countries as well; couldn't they?

So I ask this lets say that the Negative freedom system, spread under the banner of democracy, dominated the entire world, could it not be the case that 5 corporations then owned the planet?

A corporation can lobby governments in a way normal business and individuals can't, and get laws change as they wish. In an extreme situation could one coporation not stand up and buy out the other four? The laws today my prevent that, but if they lobbied in each country to get the laws changed, surely it is feasible?

What would happen for example if one coporation owned all the worlds media? If someones was inclined they could silence all information about an area, what would Hitler have done with that? We could never see another Hitler?

I'm sorry but the more I look at Berlin and his system, the more I ponder how someone could have been so silly. But then Berlin didn't except the system, he just thought it up.

 
« Last Edit: 12/11/2008 21:37:00 by WIZBIT_69 »
 

Sooyeah

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Negative freedom
« Reply #18 on: 19/11/2008 09:33:29 »
     
The ebb and the flow.

OK now shut your eyes and go to sleep, tomorrow I'll tell you how the Vietnam war really got started. 

You see the middle class watch that, and then at some point take over. Then end up doing the same. Tragic.
 

Sooyeah

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Negative freedom
« Reply #19 on: 19/11/2008 09:35:37 »
Quote
Ok so I have been under heavy surveillance for like the last 5 and a half years, they were watching me before that, but it really ramped up five years ago.
Are you really that important? What have you that makes you such a thorn in 'their' flesh?
Do you have any influence?
Do you work in a 'restricted' field?
Do you have any idea how much it costs to put someone under surveillance?
Why did they bother?

That's a good question. Maybe he could answer it.

We'll have to ponder.

I will have to ponder too. But we all, in our own way, have influence. Ideas are dangerous don't forget.

I will probably never know the real reason.

Thankyou WIZBIT.
 

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Negative freedom
« Reply #19 on: 19/11/2008 09:35:37 »

 

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