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Author Topic: Science has been unfairly hijacked by atheism  (Read 26670 times)

Offline Madidus_Scientia

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Science has been unfairly hijacked by atheism
« Reply #25 on: 20/04/2008 08:12:25 »
I would say the sun provides all sustenance.
 

Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Science has been unfairly hijacked by atheism
« Reply #26 on: 21/04/2008 19:04:50 »
You could be correct, however a more accurate interpretation would be that the sun provides the energy that helps the Earth to Provide Sustenance
 

Offline johnbrandy

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Science has been unfairly hijacked by atheism
« Reply #27 on: 22/04/2008 07:45:32 »
Atheism is merely a point of view. Science is a point of view. There is good science and bad science. An atheist or a scientist can draw upon either. What is good science or bad science is a matter of opinion. Therefore the substance of either position or argument is the key. Yet the "science" of God, is clearly subjective and the science of physics, biology, geology, chemistry, and so forth is objective. Science does not necessitate a belief in a God, nor does science, of necessity, discount a belief in God. Similarly, atheism does not,of necessity, draw upon scientific knowledge to justify its claims. Atheism cannot diminish scientific understanding because atheism is categorically distinct. All science is provisional, therefore atheism, grounded is science, is provisional, and subject to the purview of science. As such, atheism cannot threaten legitimate  science.   
« Last Edit: 22/04/2008 17:16:43 by johnbrandy »
 

Offline Bored chemist

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Science has been unfairly hijacked by atheism
« Reply #28 on: 22/04/2008 20:33:31 »
is "bad science" science?
 

Offline Cooliorob

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Science has been unfairly hijacked by atheism
« Reply #29 on: 23/04/2008 22:47:38 »
There is something more to humans, however, than just atoms randomly configured due to certain properties!  I agree that the earth is amazing, but for a different reason than you think, Andrew.  I think of it as art... friggin huge art...
« Last Edit: 23/04/2008 22:49:43 by Cooliorob »
 

Offline Madidus_Scientia

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Science has been unfairly hijacked by atheism
« Reply #30 on: 24/04/2008 11:41:53 »
what's random about it?
 

Offline Cooliorob

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Science has been unfairly hijacked by atheism
« Reply #31 on: 30/04/2008 22:28:27 »
bad word, sorry... but still!
 

Offline johnbrandy

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Science has been unfairly hijacked by atheism
« Reply #32 on: 01/05/2008 04:47:43 »
Re: Bored chemist, "is 'bad science' science?" The answer depends upon your point of view; your qualifications to evaluate what is presented, whether the material, premises and conclusions are consistent with established scientific principles, concepts, or theories, or if the methods used are correct, and properly applied, verifiable and repeatable. If sound and established methods are incorrectly applied, such that the experiment or study lack internal coherence, that might constitute bad science. Certain distinctions must be addressed. Bad science can be a sincere attempt, fraught with unintentional mistakes, incomplete or obsolete data. Conversely, bad science, employing establishes principles, concepts, methods, or theories, can be deliberately misapplies in order to deceive, so as to "produce" a particular, and favorable result. Therefore the question, "is 'bad science', science", appears to me to be conditional. Differently stated, "is 'bad science' science", depends upon the particular scientific experiment, principle, concept, or theory, and how each is applied or interpreted, and whether they conform with established scientific and experimental methodology. Perhaps the best question should be, "what is good science?" Thank you for allowing me to participate.       
« Last Edit: 01/05/2008 05:38:47 by johnbrandy »
 

Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Science has been unfairly hijacked by atheism
« Reply #33 on: 17/05/2008 13:09:27 »
Have to agree with BC on this, there is no such thing as bad science. Limited knowledge for the times is understandable as this drives progress. To call this bad science is not gracious. To accept that this was the best description and understanding at the time is more appropriate. However, to continue accepting a paradigm that has been invalidated simply because you cannot accept that you were wrong to begin with is not science either and you are no longer a scientists should you choose to ignore more compelling evidence.

RE: Coolio and Art.
Are you an artist or a scientist? Art tends to draw the eye away from the details and look at the whole picture, whereas science tends to draw the eye closer to the details. Finding a happy medium somewhere between the two is a perfect marriage.
is "bad science" science?
There is something more to humans, however, than just atoms randomly configured due to certain properties!  I agree that the earth is amazing, but for a different reason than you think, Andrew.  I think of it as art... friggin huge art...
 

Offline SFMA

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Science has been unfairly hijacked by atheism
« Reply #34 on: 20/05/2008 22:11:40 »
While science is ever developing we haven't reach the end yet. Until
we do so the final discovery is unknown. So there is unknown fact. Therefore
we can't say that we know everything. God being the Creator of everything how
can we finalise His existence in relation to the creation when there is a lot of unknown things. 

We cannot be definite about God in either way this proposition is consistent with science. We can believe about Him. Religion is about believe.   

What we don't know is seems more real then what we know.
No one knew about Internet just a few century ago. 
 

Offline SFMA

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Science has been unfairly hijacked by atheism
« Reply #35 on: 31/05/2008 17:16:09 »
We cannot discover God unless He allows it to happen. It's His credit.
He is in total cntrol of His identity!
 

Offline BenV

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Science has been unfairly hijacked by atheism
« Reply #36 on: 31/05/2008 17:27:59 »
We cannot discover God unless He allows it to happen. It's His credit.
He is in total cntrol of His identity!
How convenient.
 

Offline SFMA

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Science has been unfairly hijacked by atheism
« Reply #37 on: 09/06/2008 10:11:55 »
We cannot discover God unless He allows it to happen. It's His credit.
He is in total cntrol of His identity!
How convenient.
This is my belief.
 

Offline Madidus_Scientia

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Science has been unfairly hijacked by atheism
« Reply #38 on: 09/06/2008 11:50:00 »
We cannot discover God unless He allows it to happen. It's His credit.
He is in total cntrol of His identity!
How convenient.
This is my belief.

If that's the kind of thing that convinces you then you're welcome to it. I would rather believe or not believe in things based on evidence and reason.
 

Offline SFMA

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Science has been unfairly hijacked by atheism
« Reply #39 on: 09/06/2008 12:21:21 »
We cannot discover God unless He allows it to happen. It's His credit.
He is in total cntrol of His identity!
How convenient.
This is my belief.

If that's the kind of thing that convinces you then you're welcome to it. I would rather believe or not believe in things based on evidence and reason.
There is more than enough evidence that we do not know everything. While we are trying to digest atoms now we discovered dark matter. That's yet to be learned. When can you make sure that there won't be any other dark matter at the end of it? It's clear the truth is unfolding gradually. What is keeping the ballance these all are signs of a very well capable superior Being who is beoynd any given space and time. But present in it as well as we go along and learn more. 
 

Offline BenV

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Science has been unfairly hijacked by atheism
« Reply #40 on: 09/06/2008 12:31:53 »
"What is keeping the ballance these all are signs of a very well capable superior Being who is beoynd any given space and time."

That's the jump that Madidus and I are refusing to make.  Certainly there are things we don't know and don't fully understand, but that doesn't mean we should invent a god to fill the gaps.
 

Offline SFMA

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« Reply #41 on: 09/06/2008 13:05:00 »
That's the jump that Madidus and I are refusing to make.  Certainly there are things we don't know and don't fully understand, but that doesn't mean we should invent a god to fill the gaps.
What we don't know it could be anything. It could be God as well.
 

Offline BenV

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Science has been unfairly hijacked by atheism
« Reply #42 on: 09/06/2008 13:07:14 »
And it could be a giant pink monkey with wings, or a kitten, jellyfish, piece of cheese, computer simulation, halibut, novelists imagination, garden hose...

There is as much justification for thinking that the gaps in our knowledge are explained by a massive wheel of brie as by a god.

Are you a Brie-liever?
« Last Edit: 09/06/2008 13:09:59 by BenV »
 

Offline SFMA

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Science has been unfairly hijacked by atheism
« Reply #43 on: 09/06/2008 13:27:45 »
And it could be a giant pink monkey with wings, or a kitten, jellyfish, piece of cheese, computer simulation, halibut, novelists imagination, garden hose...

There is as much justification for thinking that the gaps in our knowledge are explained by a massive wheel of brie as by a god.

Are you a Brie-liever?
It could be more than the best possible existence that you could imagine.
 

Offline BenV

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« Reply #44 on: 09/06/2008 13:38:45 »
I'm not sure I understand that comment.  What could be more than the best possible existance I can imagine?

I was trying to point out that to some people, such as myself, suggesting that all the gaps in our knowledge can be explained by a god seems ridiculous.  As ridiculous as suggesting they are explained by cheese must seem to you.

As it happens, I much prefer the Buddhist idea that there is no external god, but that you should meditate upon how you could be the best possible you, and then strive to be that person.  This seems more sensible to me than following a set of rules written in an old book.
 

Offline Madidus_Scientia

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« Reply #45 on: 09/06/2008 13:50:48 »
Quote
It could be more than the best possible existence that you could imagine.

Wishful thinking, would be lovely if it were true, but i'd rather have the best possible existence in my current form instead of wasting time hoping to have a better existence in another
 

Offline BenV

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« Reply #46 on: 09/06/2008 13:57:46 »
Quote
It could be more than the best possible existence that you could imagine.

Wishful thinking, would be lovely if it were true, but i'd rather have the best possible existence in my current form instead of wasting time hoping to have a better existence in another


Well said.
 

Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #47 on: 09/06/2008 21:00:56 »
BenV  re.
"And it could be a giant pink monkey with wings, or a kitten, jellyfish, piece of cheese, computer simulation, halibut, novelists imagination, garden hose..."
 you missed at least one important possibillity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaghetti_Monster
 

Offline BenV

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« Reply #48 on: 09/06/2008 22:10:01 »
Indeed, but I thought that too plausible, and I was trying to be ridiculous.
 

Offline johnbrandy

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Science has been unfairly hijacked by atheism
« Reply #49 on: 14/06/2008 08:31:14 »
The history of intellectual knowledge and discovery absolutely demonstrates that all knowledge is provisional, therefore we cannot be sure if our present knowledge is viable, let alone the so-called gaps in this knowledge. What is knowledge anyway? "Facts", opinions, evidence, consensus, truth. Some of our knowledge may be solid and reliable. Some of our knowledge may be provisional, and likely to change. We cannot be certain, in either case. God is not at issue here. Knowledge of God, if plausible, is a self-evident reality, and therefore subject to individual interpretation and understanding. I would expect that such genuinely enlightened individuals would have much to report about the exact nature of reality in its various forms. Science is a point of view, and does not pretend to absoluteness. The fact that science has inherent limits, and thusly results in logical gaps, does not indicate or imply these gap, and their cognizance, fall within the exclusive domain of a divinity. Further, why should we assume that it is even possible to know "everything", in scientific terms, or any other? What standard, system, doctrine, discipline, science, religion, philosophy, or point of view, can reasonably justify this claim? To assert that it is possible to eventually answer and comprehend every scientific question, is to argue a degree of insight into the validity and perfection of scientific methodology's, hitherto unknown.
« Last Edit: 15/06/2008 02:49:25 by johnbrandy »
 

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Science has been unfairly hijacked by atheism
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