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Author Topic: Spacetime  (Read 8014 times)

Offline Sandwalker

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Spacetime
« on: 13/09/2004 11:54:16 »

If all the fundemental forms of energy (Gravity, Electromagnetism, the Strong and Weak Nuclear Forces) that make up our universe and perhaps its matter, travel at the speed of light, then due to spacetime dilation all energy/matter exists in nil time and nul space!

That is, its existance relative to itself can not change, its path/s exists in a spacetime with no dimensions.

A singularity (Black Hole) perhaps!

Does this mean that the Universe at a lower (or is it higher) dimesionality does not exist and/or that it is pre-determined?

Could it also explain quantum entanglement?


 

Offline tweener

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Re: Spacetime
« Reply #1 on: 14/09/2004 02:15:48 »
Welcome Simon!  I can't help you much on this one.

----
John - The Eternal Pessimist.
 

Offline OmnipotentOne

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Re: Spacetime
« Reply #2 on: 14/09/2004 03:13:37 »
Wait, whered you come to the conclusion that everything travels at the speed of light?  Other than that I guess it makes sence.  Yeah I havnt been fully educated on quantum mechanics, or whatever that is referring to.  Could you explain that last part a little more clearly?

To see a world in a grain of sand.
 

Offline gsmollin

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Re: Spacetime
« Reply #3 on: 14/09/2004 16:22:53 »
The force bosons of gravity and electromagnetism are the graviton and the photon. They both travel at v=c in free space. They are also rest-massless particles.

The force bosons of the strong and weak forces are the gluon and the W and Z bosons, respectively. These particles have rather large rest masses, and therefor cannot travel at v=c.

Of course, since the force-range of the gluon is the size of a large atomic nucleus, and the range of the W and Z bosons are roughly the size of a neutron, their speed of travel does not have to be great to travel these distances in a short time!
 

Offline Sandwalker

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Re: Spacetime
« Reply #4 on: 14/09/2004 21:50:30 »
OO and gsmollin

It's not so much a conclusion as an assumption!

Taking my layman perspective into consideration:

M-theory and others (N=8supergravity) seem(ed) to indicate that all energy is rolled/screwed up bubbling/vibrating multi-dimensional spacetime.

Relativity shows topology warping to be a fundemental condition of spacetime .

Also E=mc^2 shows an equivilance between energy and matter, matter may be constrained energy, nuclear fission and fussion - the unlocking of part of this constraint, where a portion of the 'matter' is released as energy and where some energy is constrained to make/alter matter.

I remember reading that in an earlier epoch of the universe the nuclear forces and electromagnetism were one, prior to a symmrtry breaking.

The search for a unified theory is the search to put gravity into the same basket as the other forces.

This (and more) is saying to me that matter and energy are the same 'stuff', probably multi-dimensional spacetime, existing at some level in its basic massless form with a v=c.

Mass/spin/charge etc, being a result of its constrained form within the multi-dimensionality of spacetime, where its v in our percieved 4D spacetime <c.
 
Though various particles in our perceived 4D spacetime travel at various v's <= c the spacetime(energy) making up these particles exists with a v of c.

Which exist in nil time and nul space, a fundemental condition where there is no dimesionality in/of spacetime in its directions of travel!

c may be a fundemental condition of spacetime and therefore anything that is of it.

c is only perceived as a velocity in our 4D's of spacetime, it may have other states in the other dimensions, do these other dimensions have to be spacial, they could be of spin, charge, quark, gravity..., they are dimensions which give shape, shape does not have to be spacial, time is not spacial but it is part of the shape of 4D spacetime, the same can be said for all the other fundemental properties of spacetime/energy/matter. The word spacetime perhaps is constraining as it hinders this perception.
 

Offline Sandwalker

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Re: Spacetime
« Reply #5 on: 14/09/2004 22:20:23 »
Quantum Entanglement.

The weird quantum property in which one particle instantly 'knows' what has happened to a distant 'entangled' particle.

This requires either faster than light signals or perhaps spacetime dimensions which have no spacial elements or spacetime in a state where no spacial demension exist ie: where spacetime/energy would perceive it existed if it were able.
 

Offline gsmollin

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Re: Spacetime
« Reply #6 on: 15/09/2004 20:47:16 »
I'm not sure if this thread is a question, statement, or something else. So its probably not possible to arrive at a conclusion. However, I will comment on quantum entanglement. A lot of claims have been made about it, and I suppose there will be clearer understandings in the future. I can't conclude that higher dimensions or faster-than-light signals are necessary to explain quantum entaglement. The two particles become entangled through exchange of ordinary force bosons. After their separation, they remain entangled, but do not commumicate. When a state resolves, the other particle state also resolves. This does not require communication, and we cannot use it to communicate.
 

Offline Sandwalker

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Re: Spacetime
« Reply #7 on: 17/09/2004 15:59:49 »
It's a thread! or something else, a string maybe.

I suppose the root of the waffle (do waffles have roots), is that any GUT will be based on/in topology.

And that a lot of the current ideas are pointing in that direction.

Please discuss.
 

Offline Observer101

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Re: Spacetime
« Reply #8 on: 18/09/2004 06:26:10 »
Google Loop Quantum Gravity, lots of reading materal.  This is cutting edge stuff.  Basically; space and matter exist because of networks of logical/geometrical relationships that (themselvs) do not exist in space or consist of matter but give rise to both...

Have you ever imagined a world with no hypothetical situations? (- George Carlin)
 

Offline Sandwalker

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Re: Spacetime
« Reply #9 on: 22/09/2004 12:30:13 »
Thanks O101 that puts it better that I could!!
 

Offline Peter_Boos

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Re: Spacetime
« Reply #10 on: 24/10/2004 00:17:38 »
Oh hi guys.

I just solved a problem there's no need for faster then light information travel / or communication between particles.
Because entangled particles are only 'double particle shadows' in 3D in 4D (i dont call time a dimension) thus i mean 4D those are single particles.
And it's even realy simpel logic check my explanation here:
newbielink:http://www.freewebs.com/boosp/4Dlight.htm [nonactive]

Altough i never would have thougt that just entangled light proves it, but it does. this might solve more problems like for example the famous splitter interference problem.


We are the flatlanders in a 4D-Light universe
 

Offline Raedon

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Re: Spacetime
« Reply #11 on: 25/10/2004 01:29:26 »
space/time is an illusion caused by sensory deprevation of novelty to 3 dimentions and a 4th veriable that can't be changed only observed.

  When you look out into the night sky and see little lights far away do you really think that is all there is to see?  What if you could see Ultraviolet would that change your reality of the universe around you?  How about something silly like an eye in the back of your head.

  Everything you see, everything, is just enough for survival of the ego novelty you are.  You are not everything you have experienced in fact.

  there is more at play here then numbers can solve because the numbers are like the night sky, based on flawed observations due to a limited central nervous system.

 

Offline Ultima

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Re: Spacetime
« Reply #12 on: 25/10/2004 12:01:22 »
WTF are you going on about????? Our best telescopes detect radio and microwaves.... do you think our eyes detect that????? Plus time is variable and changing, its been proven through the use of atomic clocks and some fast aeroplanes.

wOw the world spins?
 

Offline Raedon

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Re: Spacetime
« Reply #13 on: 25/10/2004 14:44:25 »
I'm saying to you.. slowly.. are not seeing the big picture you are just seeing the frame.

I've got to go to work.. I'll post some published links later..

remember also.. I'm a philosopher not a Scientist.

« Last Edit: 25/10/2004 14:45:04 by Raedon »
 

Offline Raedon

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Re: Spacetime
« Reply #14 on: 26/10/2004 02:38:54 »
Lets start off with the fact that when it comes to the universe and what is going on, you really do get into some uncharted waters.  This article is a look at some current thinking on a subject that sort of looks past space and time.  just silly stuff really, but these guys get published. go figure.  Still, better stuff then what I've come up with..

In fact I've been called a "crackpot" before.. ehh.  It was my fault for trying to explain a thought to a Baptist..

http://slate.msn.com/id/2087206/

NOVA talks to more "crackpots"  Though I think string theory is just trying to add formulas to try and connect two wrongs and make them right at least they try.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/3013_elegant.html

This guy starts off good but fails when he says 1+1=2 regardless of time which is not the case.  Only after you observe 1+1=2 over ohh.. 1/4 of a second does it become a fact.  remove time and it was never a problem.

http://www.philosophistry.com/archives/universe.html

Michio Kaku is always an interesting read.  He has the same problems I have.. he creates more questions then answers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/space/spacechat/livechat/michio_kaku.shtml
« Last Edit: 26/10/2004 03:24:23 by Raedon »
 

Offline Ultima

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Re: Spacetime
« Reply #15 on: 26/10/2004 11:55:44 »
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0375708111/002-6026631-2897618?v=glance

Have you ever read any of these "publications". Reading something on a website is not a reliable way to form an opinion.

wOw the world spins?
 

Offline Raedon

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Re: Spacetime
« Reply #16 on: 26/10/2004 14:39:50 »
Actually I don't read anything published usually until someone asks me to explain my oppinion because, quite frankly, my thoughts are less crazy if I point to my crazy people. :)  

  I just know, from observation, that what you is not what you get..  I'll read you post link later.. work again -.-


It is good to be alive! It's impossible I'm here but here I am.. and I rock!
 

Offline Raedon

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Re: Spacetime
« Reply #17 on: 26/10/2004 14:41:41 »
My opinion is MY OWN damnit..  It is not based on anyone elses crap monkey work to date..  

As of right now; I stand on my own sholders.


It is good to be alive! It's impossible I'm here but here I am.. and I rock!
 

Offline Raedon

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Re: Spacetime
« Reply #18 on: 27/10/2004 01:46:51 »
Man, did I get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning lol!
 

Offline Sandwalker

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Re: Spacetime
« Reply #19 on: 12/11/2004 01:06:41 »
Raedon

But all I have is what seems like 3 spatial dimensions and another of time and an experience of what some one calls the electromagnetic spectrum and they tell me its a very limited part at that, and gravity, which they tell me is weak but keeps me on my bed at night(have you tried keeping a 18 stone man down).

I have to start somewhere and make opinions on what I experience.

If I wanted to know everything, and see EVERYTHING, (how big is the universe or multi-verse?, how many dimensions does it have?...) well I would have to be it and know that I am it, everything, and also exist outside it, know its start and its end or its continuousness, its path and its possible paths etc....

I would be god or a God or even GOD, or some other diety whose existence I would have to explain...
 

Offline Raedon

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Re: Spacetime
« Reply #20 on: 14/11/2004 12:01:57 »
Thinking about how this (amazing) system works is what drives most of us.  Just do what you can while you're here. :)  Have fun!  

  The second you pass into the next you will get the answers anyway :)  whatever you do, DO NOT STRESS any problem that dies with you.
 

Offline realmswalker

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Re: Spacetime
« Reply #21 on: 08/01/2005 00:36:09 »
quote:
Originally posted by gsmollin

I'm not sure if this thread is a question, statement, or something else. So its probably not possible to arrive at a conclusion. However, I will comment on quantum entanglement. A lot of claims have been made about it, and I suppose there will be clearer understandings in the future. I can't conclude that higher dimensions or faster-than-light signals are necessary to explain quantum entaglement. The two particles become entangled through exchange of ordinary force bosons. After their separation, they remain entangled, but do not commumicate. When a state resolves, the other particle state also resolves. This does not require communication, and we cannot use it to communicate.



well any change in state can be measured and therefore be used to communicate. For example, if you had 1 entangled particle on earth and 1 on a space ship thousands of light years away you could communicate in a sort of morse code type fasion using i would imagine.
 

Offline Sandwalker

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Re: Spacetime
« Reply #22 on: 08/07/2005 02:02:34 »
Afraid that would not work realmswalker, one would only know that the recipient would get the entangled state, as the sender can not determine this state before observation, when the virtual state beomes real, no information can be sent.

That is the dot or the dash state would be random!

 

The Naked Scientists Forum

Re: Spacetime
« Reply #22 on: 08/07/2005 02:02:34 »

 

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