The Naked Scientists

The Naked Scientists Forum

Author Topic: The physcological side to rape, what do you think?  (Read 8603 times)

Offline stana

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 345
  • Dare to be yourself!
    • View Profile
I'm not deranged in the head, I just wanted to share my idea with you.

Okay, here it goes.

When i was watching a crime program on the television a few nights ago. I seen an interview with a girl that was raped. I have seen a few other interviews like this on the television before, and on most of them, after the rape, the rapist has said sorry, and apologized. So, why the change of attitude?

Heres my idea. Testosterone controlls the males sexual urges yes? So after the discharge of semen the testosterone levels in the drop and replenish. So maybe the testosterone created the sexual urge to rape in the first place?

Heres my solution. If testosterone creates these urges, cant we just remove it?


Thanks

Note: I'm not an expert in he Field of this and i don't know if this stuff has already been proven or whatever.
« Last Edit: 23/03/2008 09:02:57 by Karen W. »


 

another_someone

  • Guest
Re: The physcological side to rape, what do you think?
« Reply #1 on: 14/03/2008 20:53:40 »
I am not sure that to some extent that is not naturally happening, with the consequential feminisation of males (and quite possibly responsible for the suggested reduction in fertility of males).  I suspect the trade off is that despite the very high news value of rape, it is probably less common today than it was in past history (that is not to suggest that it is not still too common, only that in relative terms, I would not be surprised if 100 years ago its frequency was higher yet - on the other hand, the definition of rape has also changed over time, and things that today would be regarded as rape would not have been so 100 years ago - not least, at least in the UK, that a husband can be charged with raping his wife, which was not the case 100 years ago, although it is a law that even today is rarely invoked).
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • Posts: 12656
  • Thanked: 3 times
  • A stitch in time would have confused Einstein.
    • View Profile
Re: The physcological side to rape, what do you think?
« Reply #2 on: 14/03/2008 22:09:12 »
The topic title is "The psychological side to rape" yet there has not been a single mention of psychological aspects. By suggesting it could be the result of excess testosterone, you are inferring a physiological cause.

Sexual urge alone is not the prima mobile behind most rapes outside of relationships; a need to control is far more likely. The rapist "gets a kick" from imposing his will on the victim, proving to both of them that the victim is helpless and unable to stop what is happening. The perpetrator is in a position of power over the victim. Rape has connotations that far outreach the simple criminal aspect of the crime - shame, demeaning of the victim, forcefully imposing oneself on a female's most intimate part.

More often than not, the rapist has an inferiority complex and needs to force others to submit to his will in order to raise his self-esteem.

Dr. Carol Apt, assistant professor of sociology at South Carolina State University, says that what she calls "the power assurance rapist" is usually an "infinitely forgettable" person with a menial, low-paying job; a "loser" with poor interpersonal skills, especially concerning women, and living in a fantasy world of his own creation. "Psychologically, he's a kid,".

There are, of course, other reasons for rape - including sexual urge; but that is very often the result of the rapist being infatuated and obsessed with his victim.

If you do a web search for psychological profiling of rapists, you will get a better understanding of the various causes.
 

another_someone

  • Guest
Re: The physcological side to rape, what do you think?
« Reply #3 on: 15/03/2008 02:48:04 »
Are we talking about the same thing here?

I know the argument about power play in rape, but does all rape fall into that category?  In particular, can we compare the habitual rapist, who probably does fall into that category, with the isolated incident of rape?

And, is sex, power, and violence, necessarily distinct issues?

In terms of power play, aside from the issue of social skills involved, is a rapist so very different from a serial, seducer?  The kind of guy who thinks it is a challenge to seduce a woman, and having done so, then just moves on - is that not also a form of power play, if maybe with different tools?  The law allows one set of tools, but does not allow the other; but is the underlying drive really so different for the two?
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • Posts: 12656
  • Thanked: 3 times
  • A stitch in time would have confused Einstein.
    • View Profile
Re: The physcological side to rape, what do you think?
« Reply #4 on: 15/03/2008 08:06:21 »
George - I said "Sexual urge alone is not the prima mobile behind most rapes outside of relationships".

Yes, a husband forcing his wife against her will is probably more common than the power assurance rapist; but statistics are unreliable as no-one knows how many incidents go unreported.

Serial seduction is a different matter. With that, it is usually the chase as well as the conquest - the challenge.

Then, of course, there is the issue of date rape drugs, the motive for the use of which I suspect is different again. Flunitrazepam (Rohypnol) is the most widely-known but ketamine hydrochloride is probably more widely-used as it is also a recreational drug. Another is gamma hydroxybutyric acid (GHB). The use of date rape drugs is not as new as the media may have you think. In the 60s & early 70s methaqualone (Mandrax - commonly known as Randy Mandies) was the drug of choice; not least because they closely resembled paracetamol tablets.
 

Offline Make it Lady

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4050
  • Hands-on fun for everyone!
    • View Profile
Re: The physcological side to rape, what do you think?
« Reply #5 on: 16/03/2008 00:32:46 »
It is the saying sorry bit afterwards that Stana is trying to understand. This often happens with people that hit their partners too. They seem to be remorseful afterwards. I don't actually think they are sorry. I think they think that it is expected and if you do it chances are you wont get into trouble. I doubt it is ever meant. It is all part of the control and manipulate mentality.
 

another_someone

  • Guest
Re: The physcological side to rape, what do you think?
« Reply #6 on: 16/03/2008 01:52:34 »
It is the saying sorry bit afterwards that Stana is trying to understand. This often happens with people that hit their partners too. They seem to be remorseful afterwards. I don't actually think they are sorry. I think they think that it is expected and if you do it chances are you wont get into trouble. I doubt it is ever meant. It is all part of the control and manipulate mentality.

Where the victim and perpetrator are known to each other, I think it likely that they do mean it.

You talk about getting into trouble, but into trouble with whom?  Most such incidents are never reported anyway, so trouble with the authorities is less than likely.  Trouble with the person you attacked?  Does that not imply that you have put yourself at their mercy, and so undermined the very control you seek?

The problem here is I think you are assuming people are totally rational and consistent.  My observation is that people (especially those prone to random violence) are neither.

I suspect the problem often is that the violence derives from low self esteem, but then observing the damage their violence does only even further reduces their self esteem (just as it reduces the self esteem of their victim), so you get a vicious circle.

There is, in a sense, an analogy with an alcoholic who knows he is an alcoholic, is ashamed of being an alcoholic, but still needs the alcohol (or other drug) as a means of mentally escaping the very problems he has.  In a way, the violence is a similar sort of drug for many people - it creates the very problems that they are trying to run away from, but it is also the means of running away from their problems (not so much the violence itself, but the anger that drives it).

As I say, the above really is more about domestic violence (specifically, a violent relationship, rather than an isolated act of violence), and is not really so much about stranger violence.

Possibly one can also draw analogies with people who self harm.
« Last Edit: 16/03/2008 02:01:49 by another_someone »
 

Offline RobotGymnast

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 47
  • Dum de dumm...
    • View Profile
Re: The physcological side to rape, what do you think?
« Reply #7 on: 21/03/2008 16:09:41 »
I'm sure that testosterone does contribute to rape (or at least a portion of it). Directly after masturbation, I feel no need to carry out whatever fantasy I was imagining. I think testosterone compels males to do things they normally wouldn't (I believe that's called "horny" ;)), and women also have similar sexual urges that compel them to do things they wouldn't normally do either. Removing testosterone is not the answer, and even attempting to make that mandatory would cause HUGE turmoil and rioting. Testosterone is the hormone that controls puberty in males, and removing it from all males would effectively make the entire human race doomed to extinction (I think.. because testosterone controls production of sperm.. and erections, doesn't it?).
 

Offline neilep

  • Withdrawnmist
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • Posts: 20602
  • Thanked: 8 times
    • View Profile
Re: The physcological side to rape, what do you think?
« Reply #8 on: 21/03/2008 16:21:28 »
I have to say that (in MY opinion) attributing anti social behavior to hormone levels is a cop out.

Unlike a shrew who shags himself to death, we have our intellect to disassociate correct behaviors form bad.
I can only imagine an abnormality where this leads to a ' condition  ' that is out of the ordinary that one might be able to lay blame upon.

I think it's a matter of increased awareness of what is socially accepted and adopting the skills to deal with it.

Just because a rapist can feel remorse doesn't necessarily mean he/she is not going to repeat the performance.

Rapists are usually social outcasts or in the extreme very calculating...in any case......the act of ' raping ' is a major behavioral and intellectual downfall..in MY opinion !!........a rapist has a severe anti-social characteristic !!......and unless assistance is given...then remorseful or not.............will probably go on to repeat the attack......and probably with more venom.
 

Offline RobotGymnast

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 47
  • Dum de dumm...
    • View Profile
Re: The physcological side to rape, what do you think?
« Reply #9 on: 21/03/2008 16:23:48 »
Yeah.. it is a matter of opinion.. I don't think that all rape is a display of antisocial behaviour. And "good" and "bad" are also relative. Technically we don't even have a choice about anything we do (or we do, but it's mathematically predictable in theory)
 

Offline neilep

  • Withdrawnmist
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • Posts: 20602
  • Thanked: 8 times
    • View Profile
Re: The physcological side to rape, what do you think?
« Reply #10 on: 21/03/2008 16:26:28 »
Yeah.. it is a matter of opinion.. I don't think that all rape is a display of antisocial behaviour. And "good" and "bad" are also relative. Technically we don't even have a choice about anything we do (or we do, but it's mathematically predictable in theory)

That's OK....hey !..I wasn't responding to your post directly....but the initial post laid down by Stana !

Everything is relative...this is why I always say ' In MY opinion '

 

Offline RobotGymnast

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 47
  • Dum de dumm...
    • View Profile
Re: The physcological side to rape, what do you think?
« Reply #11 on: 21/03/2008 16:28:33 »
oh ohkay.. actually I was going to add "if you're responding to my post" at the beginning, but I decided against it xD. Good policy. Ever read Scott Adams's "stick to drawing comics monkey brain" book? He's made a conscious decision to append a silent disclaimer to the end of anything he says (BOCTAOE.. But Of Course There Are Other Exceptions).. sounds like you could use that =P
 

Offline neilep

  • Withdrawnmist
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • Posts: 20602
  • Thanked: 8 times
    • View Profile
Re: The physcological side to rape, what do you think?
« Reply #12 on: 21/03/2008 16:34:10 »
oh ohkay.. actually I was going to add "if you're responding to my post" at the beginning, but I decided against it xD. Good policy. Ever read Scott Adams's "stick to drawing comics monkey brain" book? He's made a conscious decision to append a silent disclaimer to the end of anything he says (BOCTAOE.. But Of Course There Are Other Exceptions).. sounds like you could use that =P

Nope never read it....hmmmmmmmmm..silent disclaimers eh ?....sounds good ...as long as people notice it .......thanks for the recommendation.
 

another_someone

  • Guest
Re: The physcological side to rape, what do you think?
« Reply #13 on: 21/03/2008 19:12:47 »
Firstly, the notion of 'anti-social' behaviour depends on what society claims it to be (which can vary from society to society, and context to context).  Then again, since society defines what rape is as that which is illegal, I suppose you could argue that if it is not illegal (depending on how one defines the law) then it is not rape.  Whether one equates illegal with anti-social is another matter.

As for rapists being outcasts - it rather depends on the context.  Any obsessive, including obsessive rapists, are likely to be not very well socially integrated; but rape, like murder, theft, or so many other activities, may be something one does once in one's life in a moment of aberration, or it may be something that one is not even aware that the action one is undertaking is defined in law in that way, or it may be something one is both concious of its legal meaning and one habitually undertakes it.  They are all different situations, and cannot be regarded as equal.

Many people who commit violent acts within the family, but not so in relation to strangers, are often regarded by people outside of the family as harmless and even charming people.

When people talk about rape, they all have their own stereotypical image of what they mean by the term, and how they imagine the people who commit it to be.  The reality is that it is a wide range of activities which only have one thing in common, it is sexual intercourse that is undertaken without the legal consent of the subject (normally the woman) upon whom the act is undertaken.
 

Offline neilep

  • Withdrawnmist
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • Posts: 20602
  • Thanked: 8 times
    • View Profile
Re: The physcological side to rape, what do you think?
« Reply #14 on: 21/03/2008 19:35:00 »
Firstly, the notion of 'anti-social' behaviour depends on what society claims it to be (which can vary from society to society, and context to context).  Then again, since society defines what rape is as that which is illegal, I suppose you could argue that if it is not illegal (depending on how one defines the law) then it is not rape.  Whether one equates illegal with anti-social is another matter.

Well yes of course......but I think we all have a relative understanding of a general realisation of what rape is and what  ' anti social ' is without having to detail it too extreme. I would consider 'Rape ' ' anti-social ' in the extreme without having to question the society I am living in and whether the victim considers it so too.


As for rapists being outcasts - it rather depends on the context.  Any obsessive, including obsessive rapists, are likely to be not very well socially integrated; but rape, like murder, theft, or so many other activities, may be something one does once in one's life in a moment of aberration, or it may be something that one is not even aware that the action one is undertaking is defined in law in that way, or it may be something one is both concious of its legal meaning and one habitually undertakes it.  They are all different situations, and cannot be regarded as equal.

Yes, of course...and as mentioned people who commit this act be it once or twice or habitually I consider to be in need of ' assistance ' one way or another. Ignorance of the law or ignorance as to whether it is socially acceptable is not a defense as far as I am concerned ...with maybe...possibly the exception of a proven case of severe mental disorder.
Many people who commit violent acts within the family, but not so in relation to strangers, are often regarded by people outside of the family as harmless and even charming people.

Yes, the worst kind !!......Just goes to prove that you never really know a persons limits until the occasion arises !
When people talk about rape, they all have their own stereotypical image of what they mean by the term, and how they imagine the people who commit it to be.  The reality is that it is a wide range of activities which only have one thing in common, it is sexual intercourse that is undertaken without the legal consent of the subject (normally the woman) upon whom the act is undertaken.

Not necessarily...It's not always sexual intercourse !!...I would expect there to be a mental trigger that they all have in common too. Do a psyche profile and you will find consistent ' behavioural/emotional ' triggers that rapists have in common...........Low self esteem, the want to control, power rush !, feelings of inadequacy and the wish to correct that!............a lot of the time it's not just about sex..but about the want to exercise a ' control '

As I have said...this is all just my opinion.
« Last Edit: 21/03/2008 19:37:33 by neilep »
 

another_someone

  • Guest
Re: The physcological side to rape, what do you think?
« Reply #15 on: 21/03/2008 20:58:54 »
Well yes of course......but I think we all have a relative understanding of a general realisation of what rape is and what  ' anti social ' is without having to detail it too extreme. I would consider 'Rape ' ' anti-social ' in the extreme without having to question the society I am living in and whether the victim considers it so too.

Technically, it is now rape in this country if you have sex with a person under 13 years of age, no matter what nominal consent is involved (this despite the fact that in not so many generations past, 13 was considered adult enough to marry, and is still in a few countries an acceptable age of consent).

It is presently somewhat debatable as to whether having sex with someone while that person is under the influence of alcohol is probably rape.  I am not at all sure what the situation is if both parties are under the influence of alcohol.  It may be argued that being voluntarily intoxicated in any context might be anti-social, but it certainly is not at present illegal.

The term 'rape' originally meant 'to take by force', and was not specifically applied to sexual matters.  In that context, the matter is probably clearer; but the modern contexts is to have sex with a person without their legal consent is a lot more vague.

I am not arguing that the old definition was adequate for modern usage, only that the modern usage has created many grey areas.

Yes, of course...and as mentioned people who commit this act be it once or twice or habitually I consider to be in need of ' assistance ' one way or another. Ignorance of the law or ignorance as to whether it is socially acceptable is not a defense as far as I am concerned ...with maybe...possibly the exception of a proven case of severe mental disorder.

Agreed - ignorance of the law is not a defence against violation of the law, but I was not trying to argue a defence, I was merely trying to argue against having a single stereotype as to what a rapist might be.

When people talk about rape, they all have their own stereotypical image of what they mean by the term, and how they imagine the people who commit it to be.  The reality is that it is a wide range of activities which only have one thing in common, it is sexual intercourse that is undertaken without the legal consent of the subject (normally the woman) upon whom the act is undertaken.

Not necessarily...It's not always sexual intercourse !!

If there is no sexual intercourse, then it can be a sexual assault, even a serious sexual assault, but not legally rape.

...I would expect there to be a mental trigger that they all have in common too.

I don't think you can compare a young student, first time away from home, getting drunk with a girl, both indulging in sexual play, but he goes a bit further than she had wanted (not that he attacked her, but maybe pressured her a bit, or maybe she was already half unconscious with drink), and the following morning being accused of rape (maybe even in the following morning, neither of them can clearly remember the night before, but she insists she did not consent to full intercourse), as comparable to someone who carefully plans an attack against a relative stranger whom he drags off the street. 

 

The Naked Scientists Forum

Re: The physcological side to rape, what do you think?
« Reply #15 on: 21/03/2008 20:58:54 »

 

SMF 2.0.10 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums