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Author Topic: Why aren't guns banned in the USA?  (Read 52710 times)

Offline qpan

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Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« on: 28/09/2004 18:07:17 »
How come guns aren't banned in the USA like in the UK or the majority(all?) of europe?
Surely the US would be a safer place if guns were outlawed?

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Offline neilep

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Re: Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #1 on: 28/09/2004 19:07:34 »
Don't you american chums have this 'freedom to bear arms' thingy written down somewhere ?

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Offline Corbeille

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Re: Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #2 on: 28/09/2004 21:33:59 »
The second amendment of the American constitution states that;

 "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed".
 
The word militia is important. When the amendment was written it meant a body of men who could be called up to defend their country and  the right to "bear arms" was provided to maintain weapons skills
for those members of the militia.

So not very relevant with today's professional army even if  the English monarch decides to invade again because he can't go fox hunting instead.

"The right of the people" is guaranteed to raise passions regardless of where it is used.

The USA would certainly be a safer place if guns were banned but this would be difficult as millions of guns are in circulation. A firearms ban in the UK was successful as there were not as many legally held guns in circulation as in the US. The UK government took the opportunity and had public support to do so after the Dunblane massacre. The Home Office had a register of all "legally" held guns and compensated the owners financially.

In the US the gun manufacturers are too rich and too powerful. A presidential candidate need squillions of dollars to win a campaign and will have to represent the interests of his funders when he gets into office. The arms manufacturers donate heavily to candidates and senators and get their interests (profits) protected. The NRA will tell us that "guns don"t kill people - people do" which is total baloney but while they pay the piper......


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Offline deweys hamster

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Re: Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #3 on: 28/09/2004 21:49:26 »
switzerland is one european country where guns are legal.  i got the following site by googling
http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/wallstreet.html [nofollow]
the concluding statement of this site is
 
quote:
The bottom line is one of attitude. Populations with training in civic virtue, though armed, generally do not experience sensational massacres or high crime rates. Switzerland fits this mold. But the United States does not. As H. Rap Brown declared in the 1960s, "Violence is as American as apple pie."

 

Offline tweener

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Re: Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #4 on: 28/09/2004 21:51:36 »
Banning guns will not make anywhere safer - it'll just ensure that the criminals are the only ones with guns.  For example, there are entire classes of drugs that are quite illegal, but that does not stop people from obtaining them.  It just makes them more expensive and lower quality.

There is a strong body of evidence that crime rates increase whenever there is a general ban on weapons.  I believe this is true in the UK also.  Conversely, when the ban is lifted, the crime rate goes back down.

If 30% of the population carried a gun, how many criminals would be plying their craft?  (This does not apply to fanatical suicide bomber types who don't care).

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Offline OmnipotentOne

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Re: Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #5 on: 28/09/2004 22:55:55 »
hahaha gotta love the second amendment!  I guess it might be a better place but there still would be issues if we banned them.  But all the southern folk wouldnt take to kindly to it, probably brandishing there baby as they walk on washington.  

It confuses me how fully automatics can be considered as hunting weapons.

And also how awkward it is that you can literally buy rocket launchers, M4's, gattling guns, and pen guns on this site  www.gunsamerica.com  But of course strictly for memorbelia only;)

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Offline neilep

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Re: Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #6 on: 28/09/2004 23:51:05 »
Ben Hur loves guns doesn't he ?

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Offline roberth

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Re: Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #7 on: 29/09/2004 00:04:10 »
In Australia it's illegal to own a gun unless you are a registered hunter or gun club member. Then, the type of weapon able to be owned is severly restricted. It's now even illegal to carry a knife or blade unless you have a good reason. I hate guns !! I don't care what the NRA says, guns are designed to kill people, particularly hand guns. These are banned here, so only the police, the military and the criminals have them. I'm still undecided whether the banning of guns reduces crime. Crimes with guns have certainly reduced since the ban was introduced, but it is offset by increases in other types of violent crime.
 

Offline qpan

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Re: Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #8 on: 29/09/2004 00:42:45 »
Yes, I hate guns too. In the UK it is also illegal to carry a knife with a blade longer than 3 inches.

Tweener, banning guns will make a place safer. In the UK, there is very little gun crime as there are very few illegal firearms in circulation. Guns are extremely dangerous weapons and are, as roberth said, designed to kill people.

If you "ban" guns while there are still a large supply of illegal firearms available, then fair enough, crime will go up as criminals will have guns while the public do not. However, if you ban guns outright and do a good enough job to ensure that there are very few illegal guns around, then basically no one has guns and crime goes significantly down. I'd rather a robber tried robbing a bank armed with a knife rather than a gun, i'd tell you that now. And i bet a robber would think twice about robbing a bank armed with only a knife.

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Offline Corbeille

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Re: Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #9 on: 29/09/2004 19:46:00 »
Quite true that banning guns would mean any remaining guns would be possessed by criminals but the US has a problem with killings using legally held guns.
The guns that killed JFK, King, Lennon and students at Columbine were legal. In the UK the spree killings at Dunblane and Hungerford were carried out with legally held weapons.
 A ban on guns would go a long way to preventing ordinary people seeing the red mist and killing someone in a fit of rage. Any of us are capable of it. Children wouldn't play with their father's gun and injure or kill themselves. However with so many guns in circulation, many people will hang on to one illegally for self defense. It would take something massively tragic for public attitudes to change.

Anyway, the question was why aren't they banned in the US? and the answer is "it's everybody's right to have one"





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Offline neilep

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Re: Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #10 on: 29/09/2004 20:26:41 »
Ban them or not...they'll ALWAYS be a black market for guns, drugs....glucose tablets !!..what ever......

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Offline george

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Re: Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #11 on: 04/10/2004 08:40:32 »
Terrorism is banned in the UK, but that didn;t stop the IRA... I agree with Neilp - banning things usually creates the greatest inconvenience for law abiding people, and the least for those acting illicitly.

And in relation to the USA's rather bizarre take on guns, if everyone having the right to have one is causing the problem, why not take away the right for everyone to have one ?

If atomic bombs were written into the constitution, before someone realised that they might be dangerous, would you not ban those ? What is this business about the constitution. It's hundreds of years old. For a country that prides itself on being at the forefront of the world it seems rather over the top to obsess over a crappy old bit of paper written when times were totally different.

Geez. (oh god, I'm turning into an American, I'll be saying things suck next, like my vacuum cleaner...)
 

Offline bezoar

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Re: Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #12 on: 08/10/2004 00:46:27 »
Just that that crappy piece of paper helped make us the country we are today, and even though it's not perfect, seems to me a lot of people want to come here to visit and to live -- particularly some of those guys from the Middle East....
 

Offline Corbeille

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Re: Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #13 on: 08/10/2004 19:39:51 »
The UK has no written constitution. Does that make it a better or worse place than the USA?

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Offline neilep

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Re: Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #14 on: 08/10/2004 20:26:51 »
quote:
Originally posted by Corbeille

The UK has no written constitution. Does that make it a better or worse place than the USA?

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Good question, I think it's impossible to say whether a place is better or worse to live , it's so subjective and you would probably have to live for a good length of time in every country to be in a position to answer that.....though for me,I suspect it's safe to say that I would prefer a 'westernised' country ......my opinion for me, myself...is that, if I had no family here...I'd probably want to emigrate somewhere...perhaps the states, Oz, Saturn !!

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Offline chris

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Re: Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #15 on: 12/10/2004 15:02:10 »
Good idea Neil. You said you had a weight problem. In America you'd be considered anorexic. Make the move mate ! Easier than a diet any day !

C

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Offline bezoar

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Re: Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #16 on: 15/10/2004 00:25:31 »
That's brilliant.  If you could just solve Neil's sleep problem.  Maybe if he moved here and lived in Las Vegas -- no one ever sleeps in that city.
« Last Edit: 15/10/2004 00:26:16 by bezoar »
 

Offline neilep

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Re: Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #17 on: 15/10/2004 03:02:02 »
Packing my bags...on my way....Vegas is just west of London isn't it?..............by about 4000 miles or so ?....last time I was there I won 300 bucks...yayyy !!


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Offline Ylide

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Re: Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #18 on: 15/10/2004 17:24:55 »
quote:
Originally posted by Corbeille

Quite true that banning guns would mean any remaining guns would be possessed by criminals but the US has a problem with killings using legally held guns.
The guns that killed JFK, King, Lennon and students at Columbine were legal. In the UK the spree killings at Dunblane and Hungerford were carried out with legally held weapons.
 A ban on guns would go a long way to preventing ordinary people seeing the red mist and killing someone in a fit of rage. Any of us are capable of it. Children wouldn't play with their father's gun and injure or kill themselves. However with so many guns in circulation, many people will hang on to one illegally for self defense. It would take something massively tragic for public attitudes to change.

Anyway, the question was why aren't they banned in the US? and the answer is "it's everybody's right to have one"



First of all, you need to look at some gun crime statistics before you say things like that.  You cited a few rare extreme cases as your examples.  Most gun injuries/deaths ARE caused by illegally possessed guns.  

In fact, you mention Columbine, those were illegally possessed guns.  They were purchased legally but then handed over to the kids who comitted the crime.  The only thing they bought themselves was the ammunition.  (which should have been technically not allowed as well)

Most (legal) gun owners are responsible, law-abiding citizens.  I promise you, going into a rage does not make you go for your gun.  Either you intend to kill someone or you do not.  Sure, a society with any guns will be safer...but we already have millions of guns here, that's just not going to happen.  

Canada has more guns per capita than we do, just so you know.  According to every gun control nut on the planet, they should have murder rates through the roof.

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Offline chris

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Re: Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #19 on: 15/10/2004 18:54:31 »
mmm, but give an arsonist a box of matches and watch wha happens...

Chris

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Offline neilep

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Re: Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #20 on: 15/10/2004 19:46:29 »
There are of course times when enraged people will do anything (law abiding or not)...and if a gun happens to be nearby then the 'moment of madness, flit of frenzy' thing might happen......surely we've all nearly been there !!..........but I have no doubt that 99.99% of gun owners are law abiding citizens as are 99.99% of non gun owners too.....chances are...if it wasn't a gun, it'll be a knife.......presumably it's the 'calculated intending to do harm to people' type person we should all be worrying about....what about those guys who went on sniping sprees in the US, if they could not get their hands on the arms they would have not been able to do those crimes, else they would have  used crossbows and sling shots, catapults etc...but yhey clearly intended to do harm..I wonder what they would have done without access to arms.

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« Last Edit: 15/10/2004 22:06:10 by neilep »
 

Offline neilep

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Re: Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #21 on: 15/10/2004 19:47:42 »
Just an after thought...can someone please tell me what the process is to be able to own a gun in Uncle Sam.

cheers

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Offline Corbeille

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Re: Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #22 on: 15/10/2004 21:45:43 »
So what is it about the American way of life that creates more deaths by shooting than countries with higher gun ownership? I'm not having a poke at gun owners here, there have been times when I wished I could have produced one, I'm just looking for an explanation.

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Offline Donnah

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Re: Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #23 on: 16/10/2004 23:06:13 »
Why not make it mandatory for gun owners to complete a training program and a psychological profile?  In the licensing/registry database there should be a "fingerprint" for every gun.  Then law enforcers could do a computer search for a gun the same way they match fingerprints.

My son makes chain maille shirts (among other things) and is getting business from bar owners who want to protect their bouncers from knife attacks.  They are cooler and less bulky than flack jackets.  A sad statement of our society that it has come to that, but good for Steve's business.
« Last Edit: 12/11/2010 14:44:38 by Donnah »
 

Offline bezoar

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Re: Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #24 on: 17/10/2004 13:01:20 »
I bought a gun once.  All I had to do was fill out some papers that essentially gave info on who and where I was, and that I didn't have a mental history.  Now I think you have to wait 48 hours for a criminal background check as well.  It's not at all difficult.  Every pawn shop has a good supply of guns.  There are tons of mail order catalogues.  And, as they say, guns don't kill, people do.  I guess over all, if you look at genetic bases of behavior, we are a country created by rebels, and maybe we inherently have a somewhat more volitile nature.
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Re: Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #24 on: 17/10/2004 13:01:20 »

 

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