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Author Topic: Why aren't guns banned in the USA?  (Read 52616 times)

Offline Karen W.

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Re: Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #75 on: 15/09/2006 19:40:40 »
LOL LOL!!

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Offline Andy28

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Re: Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #76 on: 21/09/2006 21:20:20 »
Look at the columbine high school massacre and several other similar incidents. They were commited by kids who had been given detention and other stupid reasons. America is totally foolish to allow people to have guns. The only people who should be legally armed are the police in all countries.
 

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Re: Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #77 on: 22/09/2006 04:29:02 »
quote:
Originally posted by Andy28

Look at the columbine high school massacre and several other similar incidents. They were commited by kids who had been given detention and other stupid reasons. America is totally foolish to allow people to have guns. The only people who should be legally armed are the police in all countries.



And what about pest controllers, farmers, sportsmen, etc.

There is a large gap between allowing everyone to have a gun, and allowing no-one to have a gun.  Why should either extreme be the right position to take?



George
 

Offline moonfire

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Re: Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #78 on: 22/09/2006 05:43:17 »
I like that George!  So true!  It is not the guns, but the person who has one...maybe they should regulate who would have them and I thought of an idea, but can't post it...hmmm, I am going to research patents on this idea...sorry

"Lo" Loretta
 

Offline Andy28

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Re: Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #79 on: 25/09/2006 16:56:44 »
Pest controllers and farmers? Ain't they the ones that shoot innocent little animals. Sorry i don't agree with it. Animals have just as much right as we do on this planet.
 

Offline Mirage

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Re: Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #80 on: 25/09/2006 17:13:16 »
I hate hunting but I don't mind pest control to a certain degree. One of the problems I have with it is when they turn it into a sport, it's not a fun day out, it's just cruel.

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Offline Carolyn

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Re: Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #81 on: 25/09/2006 20:58:39 »
quote:
Originally posted by Andy28

Pest controllers and farmers? Ain't they the ones that shoot innocent little animals. Sorry i don't agree with it. Animals have just as much right as we do on this planet.



Hi Andy - just curious, are you a vegetarian?  I don't believe in going out and shooting animals for the hell of it.  But I come from a family of hunters.  Every year, our freezers are full of venison.  And the freezers of many struggling families are full as well. I have alot of guns in my house.  So many, I've lost count.  Both of my children have guns. Every one of them are in a fireproof vault. I take a good deal of criticism from people that weren't brought up around guns and hunting.  That's ok, everyones entitled to their opinions. We are not a bunch of redneck, hillbilly rejects from from the movie Deliverance. We are law abiding citizens.  Our guns are used strictly for hunting.  Fortunately, we've never had to use them for self defense.  But I would if I had to.

I have also been the victim of a shooting.  Guns do not scare me.  Ignorant people with guns do.  I don't want guns banned in the USA, but I do wish gun laws were regulated better.

Carolyn
 

Offline Mirage

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Re: Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #82 on: 25/09/2006 21:15:54 »
See, now that's what I like. A responsible person who respects the power of such weapons. Carolyn, people like you and your family are the type of people I feel fine and safe to have guns. But yes, ignorant people with guns are scary

Hunting which involves killing for food I have nothing against. The type of, well "so called hunters" who chase after a fox whith a pack of dogs, well to me they are scum. I understand the damage a fox can cause on a farm, but chasing the poor creature like that I feel is wrong.



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Offline Carolyn

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Re: Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #83 on: 25/09/2006 21:31:23 »
Thank you Dan.  I think everyone that owns a gun should have to take a course on how to use it.  I agree, those types of hunters are scum.

Carolyn
 

Offline Mirage

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Re: Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #84 on: 25/09/2006 22:07:28 »
No worries hun. I think a course is a good idea. However, I think it fine for hunters to own a gun, but feel there should be a line drawn as to who else can own one outside of those circumstances.

Mind you though, I would never want to come across anyone like from Deliverance, I don't want to squeal like a pig that's for sure ;)

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Re: Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #85 on: 26/09/2006 03:24:29 »
quote:
Originally posted by Andy28
Pest controllers and farmers? Ain't they the ones that shoot innocent little animals. Sorry i don't agree with it. Animals have just as much right as we do on this planet.



What do you mean by 'animals have just as much right'?

You are all for killing humans who do not obey the law, and yet which animal (aside from domesticated one's) actually abide by human laws?

I actually find greater moral dilemma about the farming of animals for food than the hunting of animals.  Ofcourse, farmed animals, for the most part, would not even be allowed to be born if it was not for their being a market for the carcases, but they do grow up trusting the humans around them, and that trust may be regarded in some ways as being betrayed when they are sent for slaughter.

By comparison, hunting a species that shares no trust with humans, and is not a part of human society (just as any predatory animals would without compunction hunt a human), I find natural and without any breach of trust.

No, I do not hunt, and aside from once doing some clay pigeon shooting, have not used a firearm.  Then again, the whole problem with hunting, as against farming, is that when human populations exceed a certain density, and wildlife reduces to below a certain density, it is not a sustainable source of food, hence the necessity to farm for food.  This is not a moral question but a pragmatic one.  In the south-east of England, these conditions have long held dominance, so there is very little practical value in hunting as a primary source of food in our part of the world.



George
« Last Edit: 26/09/2006 03:31:16 by another_someone »
 

another_someone

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Re: Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #86 on: 26/09/2006 03:42:11 »
quote:
Originally posted by Mirage
I hate hunting but I don't mind pest control to a certain degree. One of the problems I have with it is when they turn it into a sport, it's not a fun day out, it's just cruel.



Is this attitude also towards fishing, which is one of the more popular sports in this country, or just a prejudice against fox hunting?

I don't like hunting for sport (although there must always be a gap between what I personally dislike, and what I am willing to prohibit others from doing otherwise we would live under a tyranny of one persons moral superiority over everybody else), but I have absolutely nothing against someone who is hunting for a practical purpose then finding some way of turning that necessity into a sport.  Why should people have to to unnecessarily miserable just because you think it is not proper for them to enjoy what they are doing?

The issue is whether the hunt has a practical necessity or not?

There are many places where natural populations of animals (not only foxes, but in some parts of the world, even elephants, or many other wild life) must be culled.  Clearly, one would wish the people who undertake that job to take pride in the skill by which they do the job and the moment they take pride in that skill, it becomes a sport.  But, more pertinently, in many impoverished parts of the world, selling hunting licences can bring in valuable revenue that might be used to better look after the remaining wildlife in the area (this is a controversial issue because of the association with the uncontrolled hunting of the past, but it does have good practical sense).

As I say, if one is talking about hunting for sport, then I agree with you, but if we are talking about making a necessary hunt into a sport, then I totally disagree with you.



George
« Last Edit: 26/09/2006 04:25:47 by another_someone »
 

another_someone

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Re: Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #87 on: 26/09/2006 03:47:47 »
quote:
Originally posted by Mirage
No worries hun. I think a course is a good idea. However, I think it fine for hunters to own a gun, but feel there should be a line drawn as to who else can own one outside of those circumstances.



I actually see no problem is using guns for sport we still have an Olympic shooting team, it is just that they are not allowed to train in this country (and we had to suspend our gun laws to allow the commonwealth sports to come here, and no doubt those same laws will be suspended when the Olympics come here is that not hypocrisy for you?).

But as people have said, that does not mean uncontrolled owning of guns.  The reality is that gun crime has rocketed since the total prohibition on most gun ownership in this country, and while I am not suggesting it was a direct consequence of that legislation, what is clear is that the legislation hurt a lot of people who were responsibly enjoying the use of their guns in controlled environments, and did nothing to actually protect us from the illegal use of guns.



George
 

Offline Mirage

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Re: Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #88 on: 26/09/2006 17:02:55 »
Ahh, I didn't actually think about fishing. But then there is a difference with fishing. I have no problem with it if you are going to eat the thing, but if it's just to catch the biggest one you can and then mount it, then that I do not like.



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Offline Andy28

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Re: Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #89 on: 26/09/2006 17:07:15 »
You know what i hate most? When you see those snobby gits from the royal family driving around in their land rovers and shooting birds, etc. I once read in the paper that a fox hunter fell off his horse and the horse crushed him to death. Now thats justice!
 

another_someone

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Re: Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #90 on: 26/09/2006 18:16:06 »
quote:
Originally posted by Andy28

You know what i hate most? When you see those snobby gits from the royal family driving around in their land rovers and shooting birds, etc. I once read in the paper that a fox hunter fell off his horse and the horse crushed him to death. Now thats justice!



So this has nothing to do with moral principle as such, and more to do with class hatred?



George
 

Offline moonfire

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Re: Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #91 on: 27/09/2006 07:13:27 »
Wow!  Carolyn, I have to agree with you...plus there are hunters with bows and arrows, knives are used, all kinds of different weapons are used, but then there are the criminals who uses heavy objects such as household items, bats, and crazy stuff to kill people with...it is not the weapon itself as murder is in the heart already....

"Just Me, Lo" Loretta
 

Offline Infamous

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Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #92 on: 22/03/2007 02:01:39 »
How come guns aren't banned in the USA like in the UK or the majority(all?) of europe?
To defend ourselves from all those Europeans.
Quote from: qpan
Surely the US would be a safer place if guns were outlawed?

Only if we could also outlaw Europeans.....................Infy
 

Offline Boxcar

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Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #93 on: 19/07/2007 00:54:30 »
Em, kind of off topic but it's been kind of discussed and I saw it in the random thing and became interested

"Hunting which involves killing for food I have nothing against"
Maybe lost in the woods or something, we all need to survive. I think humans have come a looonng way since the time when hunting an animal was a necessity for survival but since then that necessity has definitely been eradicated. At least in the western societies with a super market with yummy veggie alternatives on nearly every corner. If you're going out killing animals only to satisfy your pallet I've no sympathy for you. There's almost definitely no more need for it.


"I agree, those types of hunters are scum"

I've been called on saying the "F word" here do I'll hold my tongue for a second.
You go out and kill animals as a means of survival. I think if you have the internet you must at least live somewhere not all that remote. If that's not true my sincerest apologies. As I said, humans have way come past the stage where we need meat to survive. Einstein said something like the only way for the human race to advance is to adopt a veggie diet. I didn't use quote marks because I don't know the exact words but it's something along those lines and I totally agree with him.

I'm kind of under the impression that the gun problem in the US is down to like communities been torn apart like. I mean like, you watch the news and it's someone getting shot down the road from you so you get all worked up and look at everyone funny but don't pay any attention the man who tapped you on the shoulder to let you know that you dropped your phone or something like that. We tend to overlook how the majority of humanity is nice and the saps stand out. If we put effort into building our communities I really doubt there would be trouble in them and if there was, well they'd probably have the ability to work out the problem together.
Gun crime has kind of reared it's ugly head in North Dublin and it's mainly over drugs and stuff. I think that could be a lot of gun crime actually. I suppose the solution is to stop buying drugs. I told a group of friends the other day, to stop buying drugs because it's indirectly putting money into the pockets of some scumbag from Clondalkin who'd gladly shoot someone's kneecaps off for some money but I don't think they payed attention  :(


 

Offline kdlynn

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Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #94 on: 19/07/2007 00:59:03 »
here's the main problem i see... if you tell the people that guns are now illegal and could you please turn them in to the government, who is actually going to turn them in? the criminals? i don't think so. only the people who had guns with no intention of shooting them at someone unless they were shot at...
 

Offline Karen W.

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Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #95 on: 19/07/2007 01:22:36 »
I with Caroline agree about stricter gun control and I certainly would not want them banned even in the face of many of my family members being shot to death as well as my best friend from High School! It wasn't the gun but the person who was allowed to get hold of it!There need to be stricter tighter rules and regulations and that kind of thing. I honestly do not know how I feel about automatic weapons they are generally not made for hunting.. someone please correct me if I am wrong! They seem more for harming or killing humans..I could be wrong though..
 

another_someone

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Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #96 on: 19/07/2007 01:38:15 »
here's the main problem i see... if you tell the people that guns are now illegal and could you please turn them in to the government, who is actually going to turn them in? the criminals? i don't think so. only the people who had guns with no intention of shooting them at someone unless they were shot at...

We've don it here, and that is exactly what happened.

We had a problem where a lone licensed gunman shot a few children (in fact there is good reason to suppose that the licensing regime had been inappropriately applied and the guy should never have had a licence to hold a gun).  The media then went on a campaign that nobody should be allowed to posses a handgun, not even Olympic target shooters.  The Government brought in a law to that effect.  Since then, we have had no legally owned handguns (except with the police or military), but gun crime has sky-rocketed.
 

Offline kdlynn

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Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #97 on: 19/07/2007 01:40:09 »
yes because the criminals know that nobody else has a gun and can't defend themselves!
 

another_someone

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Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #98 on: 19/07/2007 01:41:49 »
Gun crime has kind of reared it's ugly head in North Dublin and it's mainly over drugs and stuff. I think that could be a lot of gun crime actually. I suppose the solution is to stop buying drugs. I told a group of friends the other day, to stop buying drugs because it's indirectly putting money into the pockets of some scumbag from Clondalkin who'd gladly shoot someone's kneecaps off for some money but I don't think they payed attention  :(

The fact is, whether you or I like it, people always have, and always will take drugs.

The way to solve this problem is to break the criminal monopoly on drugs, and make it legal (this is not the same as making it socially desirable - but other drugs, such as alcohol and tobacco are legal).
 

another_someone

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Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #99 on: 19/07/2007 01:47:14 »
yes because the criminals know that nobody else has a gun and can't defend themselves!

Actually, that is not really the main problem at all.

The major part of gun crime is between criminal gangs who habitually use guns, and now feel they need to arm themselves because the opposition is armed, both to defend themselves, and because they treat it like a fashion item.

I don't know that there has been any marked increase in armed robberies in that time (remember that even when handguns were legal in this country, they were rare, and had to be stored securely and unloaded, so would not effectively be used to protect one's self or one's property).  The major increase in gun crime has been of deliberate killings, often of people within the criminal community of others within their community, but also often catching other family members of that community or people killed in a mistaken identity or as bystanders.
 

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Why aren't guns banned in the USA?
« Reply #99 on: 19/07/2007 01:47:14 »

 

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